The Endless Problems of the Vampire Coast - Total War: Warhammer 3 Immortal Empires
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- čas přidán 11. 05. 2024
- The one race in dire need of a substantial rework: The Vampire Coast.
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aranessa also got a +8k bonus per sea treasure, so you can just roam the sea endlessly :D the only true pirate !
Those battles would be fun if you didn’t only vampire coast
@@alexjohn9546 Excellent point. Not all seafarers are going to be undead pirates. Need to have the Empire's Navy, some Black Ark encounters, etc.
at a minimum the vamp coast NEEDS to be able to attack ports from the water like black arks it would make them feel so much better if you could just attack, sack, make a pirate cove and then sail away cackling. Also i feel like maybe when dogs of war come these sort of pirate/mercenary factions should be able to attack factions without declaring war or somehow force peace or something like ogres following contracts fight for the faction theat hired them right. I think too the oceans need more events and stuff to make it more interesting to just sail around with naval power factions and do things
What do you think of these updated mechanics for an Vampire Coast rework, outside of new units and balancing to make Vampire Coast more competitive:
1. Rework the benefits of capturing Amanar. Transform Amanar into something akin to a Black Arc, where capturing him provides buffs and abilities to nearby port settlements and armies, while also imposing debuffs on enemy port settlements and armies.
2. Convert the Vampire Coast faction into a horde faction similar to the Changeling. They should be able to take settlements but remain fully sustainable without them, surviving until all their armies is destroyed.
3. With the ocean covering nearly 50% of the world map, enhancing it could benefit everyone. Introduce random storms, events, and powerful items that appear in specific regions.
4. Allow Vampire Coast factions to use their infamy to purchase various boons and units during the campaign.
The 4th point is a really good idea. Using infamy to purchase units or buffs etc is a great idea.
You can increase hero capacity with pirates cove. Take a pirate captain (hero, NOT lord), set a cove in an enemy/ally port and then build the building to get more captain/morgul (i’m sure for the captain, maybe for the morgul… been a while). Dismiss the captain with the cooldown and recruit a new one who can put a cove on the next turn. Repeat as mush as you want and convert some cove to rake money in later. No war declared this way. I use this to put cove in allies colonies too. Also, your fleet captain can spawn lords. Spawn a lord transfer troops and recruit. Can spawn 2 full stack while putting a siege this way (new lord lay siege while fleet captain recruit / raise dead). Use auto resolve even if you are loosing half your army, guaranteed legendary battleground graveyard on the map and raise tier 4+ units. Trash are made to die to harvest the best crop😅
Never set cove with a lord. As you said, it’s useless…😢
That said, I usually play at normal difficulty. So maybe I didn’t get the same issues with diplomacy and ai aggressivity…
@@jacquesdube6294
Your tactic is good on higher ability, I regularly play coast on legendary and your post was near identical to the one I was going to make. Good sailing.
I think they need to rework the lizardmen too, at least fix the geomantic web and give them an actual active mechanic. Could be cool if the free lords got mechanics of their own.
They also need to do a reskin of ALOT of the Lizardmen roster. The saurus and dinos need a heavy touchup. I am talking adding gold armor on them. Paint markings etc...
I want the legendary lords to be useful too. As of now their skill lines do not offer much in terms of faction effects.
*_The_** Vampire Coast Legendary Lords cannot confederate...* the Generic Lords can rebel, and the Admirals available through the tech tree are lackluster. I feel there could be something done for this. Also as someone else pointed out, all the oceanic treasure encounters are always against the Vampire coast, but there should also be the Empire Navy, Black Ark encounters, etc. Something to spice up the seafaring experience and add a little variety.
i wish you can make more queen bes like seriously chaos dwarf can have doomstack of tanks with nukse and vampire can only have 1 queen bess lol...
Well, Queen Bes wasn't built by them. It was ripped out of the hull of an Empire 'Doom ship' (Just one ship with ONE BIG CANNON built into the middle that was longer than the ship itself) by Luthor Harkon, and then just 'Repurposed' for Piratical Purposes....
Just try to make another big cannon like the Queen Bes with a bunch of undead. You must be insane, they're bloody pirates for Sigmar's sake, they'll just steal another one!
At least the Chorfs are an industrial power with an industrial complex to back it up, Chorfs are basically Nuln on steroids of course they should be able to pump out dreadquakes.
@@JackWendigo1234 in lore there was only 12 steam tanks ever made, and we can have a whole stack of 19 just rolling around, with another 20 full stack, honestly at this point its kinda a moot point how many were made or repurposed.
@@Thedefenses My boy, this isn't a steam tank gun. It's a NAVAL SHIP GUN.
@@JackWendigo1234 And?
Vampire Coast is the biggest sufferer of "old race that hasn´t been updated to current day" syndrome in the game.
Their heroes take a high ranking building to recruit and even higher to increase the capacity, in some cases there are also EXTREMELY limited ways to increase those limits.
Fleet captain can only get more capacity from tier 5 ports or tier 4 horde main buildings, which you can have a max of 5 and the ports can only be made in capitals that have ports, not that common, also +2 from the office, luthor gets +1 from his skill tree.
Mourngul haunters get +1 from a pirate cove building, reminder those have a max of 1 building per cove, +1 from a tier 5 horde building and cylostra can get +1 from skill tree.
Gunnery wight gets +1 from a horde building, +1 from the same cove building as haunter.
all need a tier 3 building to recruit.
Can´t attack from the sea even though that kinda their whole job, being PIRATES.
They have been made for a slower game that Warhammer never was and as its just getting faster, they are getting more and more left behind.
They tech tree is also horrible, some of the effects are decent but good lord does it take a long time to get anything that´s not one of the starter techs.
It's a dark day when the Norscan monke faction is better than one with guns.
I played a ton of VC in tww2, loved it, sadly only way i have had success in tww3 is either extensive use of mods or abusing necrofex as Noctilus and having the galleons graveyard as a fairly safe home base. night and day difference between the two games, to be honest i tend to go back to tww2 if i really want to play coast
I feel like this is not the first time you've mentioned potion of speed like it was some sort of major game changing event. I've been playing since wh1. I'm not sure what potion of speed has to do with races needing updates. Not criticizing your take either. I just really don't know what you mean. I don't think I've ever not just fused this item, am I missing something?
Potion of Speed was the update in WH2 that really was a game changer, it made end turn timers far better. Also it marked a significant increase in content quality.
@@Costin_Gaming TYSM. I figured you might have been referring to a patch. That was puzzling me, I think of that patch as the end turn fix. Idk how we survived those times... lol
I literally didn't play ME until that patch.
There is a single vampire coast kampagne that I somewhat enjoyed and it was Cylostras. Everything else is just annoying in my opinion, especially Noctilus where u have to fight multiple sieges in the earlygame and basic highelf archers outrange u by a mile especially on the walls.
I´d wish there was an additional inicator on the range bar that shows u how far ur gunpowder units can actually see. It feels kinda frustrating when u position ur units, check the nature of the ground and in battle when the enemy is coming for u, u find out that there is a little hill they can´t shoot over. This seems to be better with the latest patch but it´s still kinda annoying.
The biggest problem of the vampire coast u already stated, the roster is small and the majority of the units isn´t good, it´s somewhat a similar problem to nurgle (before the patch) if u lose the few good units u can recruit in the early game ur campaign gets really hard because u have to get lucky to replace them.
use mortars against HE, melt their archer from a far. Never user gun unit, they just get melted by HE archer because archer with longer range counter gun unit (because they usually had shit armor).
@@muhammadsaduddin308 I mean that's obvious if u can recruit morters but it takes a while to do so. In the early game u have to take what the game gives u.
The moment you moved everything to the edge all I could think was "You just los'd your whole army. Oof"
Remember kids, change your camera angle, those pesky hills are important.
CA should really take a look what they did with the VC in SFO , for example treasure hunts give insane amount of gold , pirate coves are absolutely worth it and the talents tree is reworked so u get more heroes and other minor tweaks to the faction that makes it powerful ...... Yea Aranessa still sucks even with the tweaks she is the worst LL in the game , she just needs total rework from the ground .
Where's the handgunners?? There's your problem.
Haven’t played ToD yet (been busy) but if Aranessa doesn’t have it yet, they should give her a sartosan version of the landship, as a mortal alternative to the necrofex
It’s annoying how the ancillaries in the skill tree allow you to only make 1 good army of hangunners. Also deck gunners are utter garbage outside of autoreslove.
I admit, setting Pirate Coves is pain and utill they get some update(I hope they will as a faction), I can advise to send Pirate Captain to Cathay via sea line and set Coves there in settlement owned by whoever is winning there
I'm hoping that eventually Dogs of War are released and it includes a rework to Vampire Coast and Ogres.
For Vampire Coast, I'm hoping their rework makes them similar to Wood Elves in that they become a powerhouse but only be interested in coastal territory and not a paint the map faction.
Pirates that aren't good at getting money kind of fails the fantasy of a pirate faction.
Holds breath.
Artillery spam is a noob trap with Vampire Coast. You need armies that can shred anything that comes near you, with single units of depth guard to serve as cavalry wardens. It's a basic tercio formation.
Yeah clearly, except the whole thing about Depth guard being expensive and T4 units ( I got the ones here through Raise Dead ).
Also have fun using that against enemies that do outrange you or have magic or far more likely: BOTH In reality Tercio stopped being used when cannon power proved too strong.
Beating the AI isn't some challenge: You can use many formations and units to do so, what matters is cost effectiveness, ease of use, ease of replacement, ability to mass many armies to match or even outnumber them.
The common arguments in favor of VC are quite rubbish: You cannot maintain as many armies or as many troops, or even the same quality of troops as your enemies. You lose your troops far easier too.
VC armies are carried by lords, heroes ( which are limited in quantity ) and army abilities. The army is trash: Even as a gunpowder army: Cathay, Empire, Dwarfs, Chaos Dwarfs AND Skaven FAR surpass them using the exact tactics you mention here.
You want a comparison? Here's one: Dark Elves, the much maligned faction on reddit has all these strengths: Strong lords, good heroes, army abilities through Black Arks.
You know what else they do have? Insane income, good ability to mass heroes: You can make entire doomstacks of heroes AND tons of units with good leadership and good survival that ultimately cost the same as the VC roster. Depth Guard might win vs Black Ark Corsairs, but a Dark Elf player can afford entire STACKS of them by turn 20.
A VC player cannot.
Also in times of the dreadquake mortars it should at least be possible to recruit 1 queen per army.
They need stuff they're not as enjoyable to play any more but between Harkon and Noctilus I still like them regardless
they need more generic lord variety
really costin? top of the list? Norsca exists...
Norsca is more than manageable, knowing how ridiculously high their melee and weapon strength can go, as well as their sacking and port money.
Vampire Coast, however, are really the shittiest army to play as in current Warhammer 3 setting (which sucks because i like pirate as much as the next guy.) They have shit speed, shit armor, overall shit melee stats, limited roster and questionnably limited mechanics that are quite counter pirate thinking (conquering and holding land, for a start.)
Honestly, i'd think the Vampire Coast to have a far more suited "Changeling" kind of mechanics to them rather than full fledged armies like everyone else : they're raiders, pillagers and thieves. Not conquerors per se. They shouldn't play like such.
@@Tenhys I agree. But they are still more fun to play than Norsca.
@@cidklutch I respectfully disagree. With Norsca i have solid options to strike hard and fast against most armies and be well financially rewarded for it. With the Coast i really don't.
Instead of the lore of the deep heroe i would use a vampire lore, specially if its a melee one, it makes for a better frontline as far as ive played with them, and i would love if CA let me have more than one queen bess being so strong it make me play around it and it makes it kinda boring
Yea lore of the deep is kinda poopy but the ship spell is pretty at least lol
@@typerez8132 The lore of the Deep gives you summons, whereas the lore of Vampire gives you health regen. For a faction heavily relying on ranged units like the Vampire Coast, strong, armored frontline of magically disposable units are better than a marginal increase in heatlh regen for survivability.
Th only moment the Vampire lore is worthwhile is when you get higher tiers units with low entity count (like monstruous infantry or the Depth Guards.) Otherwise it's a waste of time and magic.
@@Tenhys yea you right I completely forgot about the summons
They suffer from a terrible roster with some few good-very good units. The generic lords suffering from loyalty is a bad mechanjc. Especially since alot of these lords snd what not are serving for eternity lore wise after being ressurected by said legendary lord.
I tried them once. I'll never play them again. They were so boring and inefficient to what they are supposed to be good at...
Never again.
They're pretty decent if you use real world formations lmao
Why are you using hand canoners? They are atrocios.
I think they're pretty good at sniping lords. I use the Spanish Tercio so they're really good at killing flyers trying to interrupt the formation
Yeah exactly: The roster is that BAD
@@typerez8132 Are you sure you're thinking of the correct unit? Hand cannoneers are short range anti large units. but for whatever reason they never seem to shoot right and their damage is abysmal. I tried getting 4 of them to focus one of the lizzardman dinos and it's hp barely move. Meanwhile 4 basic handgunners killed one and were already half way done with the second.
@@Ashaira yea I just have them inside my box of pole arms waiting to demolish a flying lord or monster there dmg is pretty good when paired together
That's actually how I beat my friend in a battle yesterday he didn't notice the 2 hand cannons behind all the pole arms and handguns 😂
CA made a mistake by creating a VC as a separate race - rather than units within the Counts. All issues emerged from that fateful choice.
They're my favorite faction so shut up