In Defense of Jacob Collier
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2024
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WEBSITE: www.micthesnare.com
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What do you think of Jacob Collier? Let me know in the comments!
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro
01:52 core truths about Jacob
03:50 why is Jacob "the music theory guy"?
04:43 Jacob's albums and their impact
06:54 "Jacob's music is too chaotic"
09:58 "Jacob makes Disney music"
11:12 "Jacob's music is boring bc he has perfect pitch"
11:49 "Jacob's music is poorly mixed"
12:36 "Jacob's lyrics aren't very good"
13:03 "Jacob's collaborators are so random"
13:27 "Jacob's Crocs are too loud"
13:32 why am I defending Jacob?
SOURCES CITED
Lightning Bugs: Conversations with Ben Folds. “Jacob Collier - The Methods of Making Music.” CZcams, 6 Jan. 2022, • Jacob Collier - The Me... .
Mullen, Matt. “Jacob Collier: ‘I Think That Unless Music Is Fundamentally Simple, It Doesn’t Really Move Anyone.’” MusicRadar, 24 Nov. 2021, www.musicradar.com/news/jacob-collier-interview.
Samir, Colin and. “We Interviewed the Mozart of Gen Z.” CZcams, 4 Mar. 2024, • We interviewed the Moz... .
ROYALTY FREE ASSETS USED
Video by Peggy Johnson Philip Waikoloa
Video by cottonbro studio
Photo by Pixabay
Image by Peter Ziegler from Pixabay
Photo by Josh Sorenson
Video by Ricky Esquivel - Zábava
Captions will be available soon, the next DDD is up next, thanks for watching y'all 🙏
michael you scare me with two smiths references are we about to get morrissey'd on the ddd
Day 1 of asking for Sum 41 DDD
New glasses Mic?
Mr.Snare please acknowledge me
Can we get some Deftones? Respectfully.
11:07 you nerds really did eat that shit up
not the timestamp also being 11 and 7 😭
gen z music undergrads. we were (are) the worst
Insert cringe induced jazz elitist that has turned themselves tone deaf
I do in fact eat shit
Hey it’s the bass guy
He is undeniably very talented. His actual music doesn’t click with me, it probably never will, and that’s ok, but I think the hate is so overblown.
Well people shouldn't hate him for whatever music he makes, you can hate his music (I sure do, its shit) but he makes it because he loves music i'm assuming, anybody is allowed to make music no matter the quality.
nah i understand the hate kinda. like u cant force me to believe its good when these people are saying its undeniably good. or that hes a genius. it annoys me that people think they know or have good music when they know all this music theory when it doesnt sound good. idk i do sound like a hater. its just anoying
@@Victor-oy8bjbut for someone who’s a learner do u think its a good idea to like listen to his advice on music theory and learn theory from him cuz he seems like a good teacher? Good teachers can make bad music no?
@@Victor-oy8bj basically, you hate him because he is good and you are not. noted
@@buunyyhopp i dont watch too much jacob collier. but yeah from what i see, he seems knows a lot of music theory and can teach it well. thats what hes known for. im no expert tho i never studied music or made advanced music. from how i understand music theory, every song uses music theory. but a lot of times, i think majority of artists aren't even conscious of it, it just sounds good to them. but also i think most artists know what notes and scales are for playing instruemnts. then they just choose what they like.
i would like to retract my statement on Jacob Collier
You have been forgiven @awildparrot719
@@awildparrot719 very nice character development. What made you change, specifically?
This should be top comment LMAO
Good one @wildparrot719!!!!
Bruh 😅 you're not the same guy?? Lol
Djesse, we need to cook.
This is the only reasonable take in this entire comments section.
When I saw that headline calling him Gen Z's Mozart... Like why would the media call him that? They may as well have painted a target on his forehead.
exactly. had the same thought
Media constantly try to make fake generational fueds to get more clicks. It's the same when they started calling bands/songs "millennial pop", when the music that media define with that term is usually neither produced or listened by millennials.
It"s also the fans though, that whole community has some obnoxious worshipers in it that can repel some outsiders from joining in.
@@hansmemling2311 as a fan i hate those as well, there are loads of them in negative reviews of djesse :p
@@hansmemling2311 In fairness, that's true of most popular artists or even pop-cultural entities in general, that every comment section has rabid noisy sycophants in it amongst whatever other folks also like the stuff.
"Are you criticizing something, or are you asking for a different thing?"
Mic just summed up like 95% of annoying online "critique" these days that purports to be an objective analysis of something but is just someone complaining that something not for them doesn't fit their (often very narrow) tastes.
exactly, it's crazy how so much online discourse (around music at least) boils down to "i don't like this personally"
Well yeah. Music is just about an expression of values - and people often clash over those.
So what you’re saying is don’t criticize anything or anyone’s music? This has been what people have done in relation to music criticism since the dawn of music.
@@withinthrall1445 No
YES!! It's like, you're not the target audience, you didn't need to leave a comment, just stfu
Jacob is such a sweet and thrilling and lovely music educator and communicator. His music has always been a hard sell that I've never bought, but I have so much raw respect for the way he talks about and preaches the gospel of music.
Ro Ramdin is the Jacob Collier of Hyperpop /j
Interesting seeing you here, I asked you your opinion on Jacob on a livestream a few weeks ago and you did an impression. It was funny.
Not only that, he gives amazing concerts. You might dislike him ofc, music is not for everyone, but the dude has so much contagious energy. I saw him in Portugal, he gave a 2 hour concert, with non stop energy, engaging with the audience, inviting local musicians to sing along with him. It was a great time, I didn't know him much before (it was in a music festival, he wasn't the headliner) but I became a fan after that concert.
I never understood how people struggle with the difference between “I like/dislike x” and “x is good/bad”
i feel you
I guess I am one of those people. I would argue those are the same thing, unless you think people are saying that bad = "morally bad" which I don't think is what people mean. If somebody tells me "chocolate ice cream is bad" and "vanilla ice cream is good" I view that as synonymous with "I like vanilla ice cream and dislike chocolate ice cream".
Their the exact same thing. How can something be objectively good in one sense and then subjective at the same time? It can’t.
For example person A may not like some of the most poplar and “good” heavy metal music as it could just be noise to them. But person B could rlly enjoy and see the merit in it. They have both consumed and interpreted the elements that make up the art and come to different conclusive feelings of it. This could be for a number of reasons including culture and/or more personal complex reasons but it does not matter they are both entitled to interpret the art differently and express that interpretation differently. How can Metallica make objectively good art? Well sure they can “objectively good” metal music but what exactly is that? What is the criteria for that? And how is it just cause it’s realised in what it’s trying to be does it make it objectively good? And who decides that?
I can keep going forever but it’s just pointless. Music is completely subjective and there is no “this is objectively good but I don’t like it” that can’t make any sense
@@alexh3143
(1) “Their the exact same thing.”
No. They aren’t. Show the capacity for thought. The quality of a thing, and a person’s opinion of a thing, are two totally different things. One has to do with the actual thing itself. The other has to do with an outside actor’s view of the thing. How one views a thing, and the thing itself, are separate.
1+1=2. No matter what my opinion on the math is, that is the math. It doesn’t matter if I like or dislike 1+1=2, it is simply the case that 1+1=2.
(2) “For example… who decides that?”
This is a perfect example of why I am correct. Thank you for supporting what I said. You are demonstrating the exact point I was making.
Whether or not two people like, or dislike, a given piece of music has 0 to do with the actual quality of the music itself. And you do a great job at demonstrating why.
(3) “I can keep going forever.”
Please. Every time you say something you further support what I said. Go ahead.
But it is kind of pointless in the fact that you say you disagree with me but you end up just supporting what I said. It is kind of odd of you
@@jloiben12 well look you can be passive aggressive making attempts to insult me just cause I have a separate opinion to you go ahead that’s your problem not mine. Can i ask however what these objective elements of music how does a piece of art succeed at developing them?
I think a huge reason why Jacob Collier is getting all this backlash is a reason that isn't even directly his fault, and it's not even in the music itself. Media outlets are putting him on a pedestal as this musical genius and treating him like an artistic god, so when some people hear that and then find they don't like his music, its falling from a great height so to speak. As a musical artist, hearing that he was one of "the best musicians alive" made me compare him to myself and my music where I don't use a lot of fancy music theory. The headlines about him made me think "Well he uses complex music theory I don't know and everyone's saying he's so good, my stuff might not be able to compare", so when I listened to Djesse V4 I thought "Really? This is the music the 'best musician alive' is making? It's pretty bad". Like you said in the video, artists should be treated as human beings, but even when he directly tells the interviewers "I'm a flawed person, I don't like being called a genius," they still title the video "THE MOZART OF GEN Z".
Unrelated but he made a free plugin for DAWs where you can play the audience choir thing he does at shows. I might not like his music all that much but it's an amazing choir plugin.
i do like jacob, but yes. this is it. it's not his fault. it's that of the snobs
It also emboldens an attitude that songs need a certain application of musical theory to be viable and valid. This argument often refuses to provide cultural understanding of a genre any merit, and people who belong to those cultures are rightfully mad. People use Jacob as a kind of punching bag because he was touted as the 'face of music theory'.
Like saying "Those Punk rockers only use four simple chords and scream!" when the culture of punk is rooted in those very things.
That reminds me of the Coldplay DDD with people comparing them to Radiohead.
@@sussvarman it's even more disappointing when he dips his toes in2 so many genres & i don't know if his listeners would bother 2 check out those styles after they hear them in jacob songs
i wish this has been brought up in the video, because i think its exactly this
Before even diving into the video, I had no idea there was large discourse around Jacob. Figured he’s just good at what he does and people acknowledge it.
The Album of the Year thing caused a ton of controversy and was the first time a lot of people heard of him, so they think he's an industry plant. And that 4th Djesse doesn't help dissipate that. I think that boils down what all the backlash is about.
I also didn't know. I mean everyone is gonna get hate from time to time, especially online
I hate him and am really sick of him popping up on my yt feed. I'd be hard pressed to find cringier music than his tbh. I watched this vid in good faith, but I will never understand why anybody would elect to listen to his music. Different strokes, I guess.
I also didn't see the huge discourse, I'm an amateur musician (or "musician") and what I've been thinking lately is: he is incredibly talented and has put a lot of work into his knowledge and skillset, he is an awesome musician and entertainer, and he also is inspiring to try and learn new stuff but... he is not a good artist.
He has a writer's cred on one great song (Good Days by SZA) and then his catalogue is really unimpressive, lacks emotional depth and has a lot of bad ideas in it. Nothing really to create a fuss about.
@@ArtificialFertilizer calling it discourse is giving it too much credit imo. It’s mostly a bunch of people who have literally never heard of him prior to the Grammy nom expressing their uninformed opinions about him on Reddit and on CZcams comments. I don’t really jive with his music either but it really sucks that disliking his music means you’re in their camp…
it's odd how negative opinions on jacobs music changed from "it's not my type of music" to "his music only has theory and no soul"
that's how opinions on the internet in general has become, it's always "this shit sucks, everyone except me has shit taste" instead of "i don't like it"
I think it is like with the super gifted kids you hear about. They are supposed to have an IQ greater than Einstein but decades later they have disappeared into obscurity. That is what Colliers music is to me. Just another super gifted kid that mistakes experiments for music but has found a was to marked it.
From the very beginning I always thought his music seemed very disconnected like it didn’t have any “soul” to it. And I was saying that years ago. It’s incredibly impressive without a doubt but there’s just something missing to it and I can’t put my finger on it other than using terms like “soul” even though obviously I know he’s making it from his own creative and artistic expression. I just think that it’s so technical to the point where at least for myself it lacks any sort of good cohesion to make it a good song
making him a good songwriter but I’ve always thought he’s an exceptional producer
@@lehuydang3576 People can say they don’t like it if their reasoning is they don’t feel like it has soul as long as they know that it’s their own opinion and not some objective statement
What if Jacob was actually an AI and his fame was just a social experiment?
i think he doesn’t really give a shit if people like his music, but it’s ironic considering that people act like he is trying soooo hard to impress them or something. like maybe the dude just makes what he thinks is cool
Jacob is a kid in a musical candy shop, sprinting from aisle to aisle, gorging himself on every new and exciting flavor he finds, and experiencing profound joy the whole time. He makes music that he finds interesting or meaningful to himself. He's not trying to show off all the time; he's pushing his boundaries and doing weird stuff because he'd get bored otherwise. As a musician, I wish I could maintain that level of energy and authenticity. I like a decent chunk of his music, but everything about his creative process is fucking inspirational.
Yesss
spot on
Artists are supposed to make art for themselves; not what they think people want them to make. If other people like it; that's a bonus.
That's the exact reason why I don't like his music unfortunately.
There is something to be said about being true to yourself and maintaining the child-like playfulness, but yeah... I did not like his new album at all. Felt like a lot of questionable and confusing choices that felt unwarranted.
But if he's happy, then good for him.
Glazed.
Discorse in general online has gotten unbearably hateful and aggressive
In terms of music stuff, a lot of the bigger CZcamsrs that talk about music are extremely toxic, including their fanbases.
I agree
@@pentexsucks43 100% agree. I feel like a good chunk of the harassment to Jacob this album can be directly tied to Brad Taste and his vid
@@agora_the_rapperyeah i honestly have issues with brad, dont hate him but he still gets way too overly negative for the video and stuff and it feels... odd. some of his reviews just have this odd aura to them
@@agora_the_rapper definitely, I've been a subscriber to his channel for the last 4-5 years, and the vibe of his channel seems to just get more negative as he gets older. Revisiting his older content when he was so much younger seems so much more positive, even on things he didn't like at all. Especially with how big his fanbase has gotten in the last couple of years. It's sad to see
This is an example of how way too much of almost *every* discourse is taken up by people who just get pleasure out of being mean, usually because they want the satisfaction of other people agreeing with their take or thinking they're funny.
I think Jacob Collier is one of those artists who sort of attracts those people by being earnest and playful. It takes a lot of courage to do what he does in the way he does, by mixing things that don't often go together and doing it in a way that's completely sincere (not hidden behind irony or pastiche like Zappa or Primus or even The Beatles would usually do).
I don't think that necessarily makes for better music, but I notice when someone puts themselves out there in that way, just doing what they want with a sort of childlike disregard for how cool it is or how it fits stylistically, that's exactly what attracts the kind of person who says "cringe" to everything they dislike.
yep, those are the type of people who purposefully say overly negative things or just an insult straight up, then reply shit like "womp womp" to make themselves feel like they won the argument for not caring
they're everywhere on the internet, and now we pretty much can't have any respectful discussions anymore. it's just mindless insults and arguing for the sake of having the last laugh
"Are you criticizing something or asking for a different thing?" YES! Well put! Thank you!
YOU AREN'T SLICK MIC THE SNARE. I CAUGHT THAT ONE FRAME OF YOU HATING ON TRAINING SEASON.
if it's any consolation, I do really like Illusion :))))))
@@MicTheSnare YOU AIN'T SLICK!
@@MicTheSnarethats so crazy i really think training season is dope but illusion just isnt hitting for me
Perfect Illusion is great too
I just love music that sounds like it was fun to make
sometimes it's that simple lmao
Underrated comment
This is called not having a taste in MUSIC. You have a taste in fun or something like that. It's all good. But I'm sure you would not simply eat a dish just because it seems it was fun to cook it.
@@AppearDispairDisappear-xi1gtbut that's such a lazy point of view when there's so many ways you can enjoy stuff. Why even categorize art for being good or bad? Seems like a pointless way of looking at things to me. You don't have to enjoy a dish only for how it tastes, you can also look at it, or focus on the smell or textures
@@criburgir I do not disagree. I enjoy Collier, as a virtuoso. But his album is awful music, according to my taste. Are we allowed to have a taste or any criticism of his music is laziness?
Who knows guys, he's young yet. Everyone told Mozart his music was too busy early on in his career, and then later he made requiem which is so considered, so delicate, so focused. Jacob Collier has admitted these albums are explorations. If explorative wild music isn't interesting to you, cool. But stick around, he may just pull out a requiem some day.
you can't say "dommy sevs" and expect to get away with it mister
seconding
I think a big part is that the online music "critic-oriented" community seems to be based around music that has some kind of deep emotional negative depths to it, which Jacob Collier's music just, well, doesn't have at all. He presents himself as a very cheerful, happy guy who wants to express this happiness in a larger than life way. The "thousand of voices singing together" shtick as one example, as that immidiately sets the tone for the fourth volume.
It's also the reason it mostly doesn't really click with me either. I also prefer my happy music to be mostly like "everything is shit all the time but I just had five seconds of moderate joy for the first time in many months, so maybe there might be something to live for other than the constant running away from my almost crippling fear of pain".
There seems to be a mostly unspoken conception that art must be about some kind of trauma, or otherwise it's shallow, which does make some sense from a western art history perspective. Tortured artist archetype and the tragic loss of Man's innocense and all. It's kind of an interesting question what role happiness has or could have in art. But I'm probably the wrong person to answer that lol.
This. Fucking sick and tired of people believing that good art must be miserable.
I think the thing about joyful art is you can't fake it. Green Day's most recent album is a good example of this, where Billie Joe sings about hot rods and the 80s and he just clearly doesn't actually care about it. But then you go back to songs about the same kinds of things from 70 years ago and they feel much more earnest and true.
You can't fake good art. You have to really believe everything you put into it. You have to believe that your art is special, or it won't be special. Jacob Collier clearly does believe in the beauty of those thousands of voices, and that's I think why it works, at least for me.
I don't think people really expect music to be sad and depressing all the time, I think people just are not kin to the whimsical and fantastical nature that Jacob presents.
Like, twice he made a video that was like "You know, music can be anything, nothing's truly bad, there's always potential" or giving his personal life philosophy, both very positive in nature, and people responded like "ehm, what about this obviously terrible album/artist??" or calling him presumptuous/privileged for having a carefree attitude about life.
well critics love 100 gecs, so...
@@DavidRiceInfinityNovaWould it be ironic if you wrote a song about this?
you hit the nail on the head.
I used to be a big fan of his music, because i was studying music at the time and could relate to Jacob's drive to want to know how all of it works. His approach to music has been very influential to how I think about music
At some point I started looking for different things in music though, and Jacob's music didn't really click anymore for me.
Funnily enough, I've been listening to a lot of Big Thief and Adrianne Lenker, which i would say are pretty different from Jacob's music. But Jacob himself is actually a huge fan of Adrianne.
Not everyone might like his music, but his public spotify playlist has a lot of good music in it.
Same here, I found myself listening to his second djesse album on repeat back in high school when I was in music studies. He is a very inspiring creator, but as I grew my musical palette I just started to lose a lot of that connection I once had with his music.
It happened to me with a lot of bands since I started exploring musically when I was 13, incredible bands that are normally considered some of the best in the world, they don't click with me as much as before, it's something that just happens, All types of art eventually have the chance to bore us, no matter how incredible it seemed to us at the time, but that is not an argument that their music has never been as good as we thought, it is just a testament that we change and look for different emotions.
Jacob Collier is Gen Z’s Manhattan Transfer: jazzy, sophisticated voicings, dazzling technique, and music that is easier to admire than enjoy.
Dogshit take. His music is perfectly enjoyable.
This feels like a nod towards brad taste in music’s review, which had literally all the above complaints (poor mixing, pretentious music theory, ‘Disney ahh’ music) I also didnt like how he reviewed the album, it felt like its fate was completely sealed with the first song on the album (which didnt really go down too well) and later on just proceeded to completely shit on his better songs on the album like little blue or bridge over troubled waters, it just didnt make much sense
I also recall in his review of djesse him constantly asking if some of Jacob’s creative decisions were ‘necessary’, and the section about what art really is in this vid seemed to address that complaint pretty well i feel
Yeah, I find BTIM funny in small doses but his outlook and way of listening to music in front of an audience, basically looking for things to critique makes it really unenjoyable for me. No doubt I agree with some of his opinions, but it just feels like he's genuinely looking down on the music he criticizes and I get uncomfortable with it.
Mathematical AJR is actually a really good way of describing his music imo. Respect his skill though.
Somehow I think that’s giving AJR AND Jacob too much credit
He’s not that bad
yall heard ONE SONG n came to that conclusion 😂 . listen to In My Room n ask yourself whether that sounds anything REMOTELY like AJR ROFL
@@onesyphorusIt sounds like an AJR song with more vocal harmonies and less lyrics about Legos
which songs did you hear? @@anyway96
The only thing that actually frustrates me about Jacob's music is that, when it DOES hit for me (which isn't as often as I'd like), it's transcendent. For example: so much of Djesse Pt. 2 specifically doesn't work for me, but the closing track "Time to Rest Your Weary Head" might legitimately be one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard in my life. It's not a talent showcase, but just a quiet & honest emotional expression. Just Jacob & his guitar. Others may disagree, but I think that song is his opus.
I agree that the softer, simpler acoustic stuff has more impact for many people but that one is absolutely a talent showcase of theory and microtonality . If you understood how incredibly complex and sophisticated that one is it might blow your mind. The things is you FEEL it but don't know it's happening. Moon River uses the technique too.
czcams.com/video/Xd54l8gfi7M/video.html
That’s one of my favorite stripped down songs from vol. 2.
I feel the same but about Moon River. Nothing ever in my life moved me as much musically as that cover, the amount of emotions I felt the first times I heard it were just incredible. I bought a keyboard and started learning to play just for that song.
My favorite song of his as well. The main reason for me why that is, is that the lyrics are actually well written. Usually he can't write good lyric to save his life. But in this song he has some gems like this:
"I long to see the things we saw
When we were young and could not see so clearly
When all the world was just a blur of colored lines
That I'd trace most sincerely back to you"
I think he would really benefit from having an actual poet write his lyrics for him, and focus on the music part. He already collaborates so much, why not in writing?
Anyone who uses the term, “opus” is pretentious.
My biggest problem with him is not with him but with his fans calling him a genius of overhyping him. Good vid Mic!
I consider myself guilty of having said this more than once, I am going to try to change the way I say it and constantly clarify that it is just my opinion.
@@m.dave2141
but... he is a genius? It is honestly baffling to me how much offense people take to this fact. What, you think einstein wasn't a genius to?
preeeetty safe to say he's a genius though. A technical one for sure, he can play everything.
Say what you will about his music, but what Jacob Collier is doing really well is making the kind of music he wants to hear. He's not making albums to try and appeal to specific types of people or to do anything other than be true to himself... Okay, so the result is not for everyone, but thats fine because the point is you can clearly see an artist creating without any barriers in their way whilst being completely authentic, thats true artistry and very few people are doing that these days especially not people signed to major labels.
Perfect❤
i think when people say "Jacob makes Disney music," they're saying that his really popular stuff has this very slick feel to it, almost too polished, too theatrical, like AJR or some band like that
it's basically a growing backlash against alt-pop and the CZcams art pop musician
also, it's rich that Jacob Collier's getting chewed out now when Cardiacs have become more popular than ever before, with Sing to God quickly gaining canonization, and black midi finally getting airplay in the US
Yeah I know what they mean by Disney, theatercore is a term I heard once that I thought was accurate in a comical way 😂
@@Malkmusianfulblack midi got airplay?!?!?!?
@@jackpaint6968 yeah, "slow" and "sugar/tzu" got played a lot on college radio
Why are Disney or theatre kid vibes in music so fervently hated though I don’t get it
Never got the hate around this guy, he just seems like he’s really passionate about teaching music theory to the masses and that’s something I can always get behind
2:29 also was not expecting to see the Quinton Reviews Henningverse video to pop up here. I’m currently seven hours in and I’ve been watching a bit every day since it came out, please send help lol
I gave up at 30, it's just too much for me and the schneiderverse video still left me blown away
Rip the Henningverse video
@@Crimson_Cheetah I know!!! I’m devastated that I didn’t get to finish it
@@ChainReactionsProductions Same! I think I was only about 7 hours in too.
That album has a some really good songs and others that feel like they will rip a hole through your head.
I love Jacob's music, but I think he falls into the same trap the scientists did at Jurassic Park: "he is so preoccupied with whether or not he could, he doesn't stop to think if he should". He also reminds me of something one of my design professors told me: "the most critical skill to learn as an artist is knowing when to stop".
no rational being that is in control of themselves does things that they genuinely believe they shouldn't do. if he did it, he must have thought that it should be just like it.
my thoughts on Jacob Collier have always been, and will always be the same.
"wow that guy sure can work a blowdryer and some gel can't he"
If that's your level, you roll with it. Well done.
Still doesn't come even remotely close to what Wayne Static used to do with his hair😆
Nah, he just has Ray William Johnson hair. It's genetic.
1:12 word of advice: always remember to log into your alt account if you're going to do something this inane and embarrassing on the face of it.
in fairness, i don't know if many parrots are technologically savvy enough to make alt accounts. im surprised it even managed to post one comment to be honest.
Good one @benburke3015!!!
@@firegodmc1080 it was very difficult
That is my alt account... how did you know???
@@awildparrot719 Good One @awildparrot719!!!!
In defense of Djesse Vol 4 (and the supposed soullessness of his music):
I may not enjoy every track on the album but I cried when I first heard Bridge Over Troubled Water and sobbed when I first heard Little Blue and World O World.
To me, the storytelling in his music has always been within the harmony. Maybe I’m biased as a musician and being sort of fluent in the language, but even if you took away the lyrics, I can still understand what he’s trying to say just by listening to the harmony and how it relates to the melody.
Also, Jacob, as a person, is the kind of man I’ve always wanted to be-kind and endlessly optimistic. I honestly don’t think he wakes up each day just being positive by default; rather, I feel like he chooses positivity every time despite whatever inconvenience his day may bring.
100%, Much of the emotional message of his music takes place in its harmony/melody. I am not a musician who has studied academically, but I like music enough to try to understand by actively listening the relationship between chords and the emotions that each chord and progression of chords generate when I listen to music, and in my opinion his management of harmony is on another level, not only technically, but emotionally as well.
For whoever is reading this, it is not necessary to study music or know theory to feel those emotions in harmony (although having studied clearly can help a lot).
Respectfully, his harmonic storytelling is the exact problem I have with Jacob’s music. When every chord has a million extensions and diatonic clusters, they all start to blend together and the story gets lost. To paraphrase The Incredibles, “when every chord is super, none of them are”. I feel like the harmonic stunts and tricks he uses would have a lot more impact if he was more judicious and used them in service of the song’s message rather than using them for their own sake.
@@LoserUser72This sounds like a meaningless criticism imho
@@olivercharles2930 okay, and?
@@LoserUser72🤓
Jealousy is a horrible thing. Thanks for that
Despite only listening to 2-3 of his songs regularly, Jacob Collier live was a transcendental experience.
Yeah I feel that way too. I can’t really sit through any of his albums but I would give just about anything to see one of his live shows again.
I will never understand the hate that Perfect Illusion catches
I think it was the marketing of it. Gaga marketed Joanne as her most personal body of work, and did the whole documentary around it, etc. and the album doesn't quite live up to it. Similar to Katy Perry and Witness, except Witness was actually bad, while Joanne was fine enough.
yeah especially coming from Michael Snare who usually doesn't seem to indulge in the hating on music to be funny thing like some others, like it's really not that bad.
He is the musical embodiment of Jeff Goldblum's line, "your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should."
10:15 yeah if you show this to anyone who actually listens to metal i have a good feeling a WHOLE LOT of them would describe it as disney esque...
I think you'd be surprised.
This is a great general counter to people's complaints about just about everything these days. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Nobody has to like anything. But "I don't like this" and "this is bad" get too confused too often.
This needs to be the highlighted comment.
People need to take better account of their words and language and how they communicate ideas. Language is a precious tool and all that we really have to understand one another on any meaningful level, so it's exhausting and defeating when the world around you doesn't seem to give a flying shit about nuance and specificity (when it conveniently benefits them to not care about that, of course).
Saying "this is bad" is also completely fine, but then you'd have to be actually be able to say why it's bad. Otherwise it's meaningless.
@@OrgaNik_Music It's not okay when it comes to art, because it's all subjective, unless something in the thing you criticize is literally immoral or hurts someone or a community personally. So most of the time no, it's not fine.
I think discourse around him is very similar to the movie Death of Stalin...in that everyone pretends like everything is all a-ok and won't tell the truth or take correct action because they are afraid to get Stalin angry. it is the same thing, everyone has to pretend like Jacob is a prodigy and a genius and afraid to say he just sucks.
@@arunashamal Thank you for going to bat for the point I made.
I think his bigger, more bombastic songs can feel excessive, but god damn some of the quieter tracks on Vol 4 are GORGEOUS (Little Blue, Summer Rain, Never Gonna Be Alone)
Some parts of life are excessive and sometimes in amazing ways. Having that in music also with unlimited freedom can be insanely invigorating.
Never Gonna Be Alone paints an emotion in which I would like to live forever. so peaceful and calm.
Living in a country with high crime rates where you cannot go out on the street without fear of being robbed, to the point of constantly having a broken cell phone in your pocket to give it to potential thieves, those songs give me a level of peace that is difficult for me to achieve in the real world.
SUMMER RAIN. You are so right here. Those songs are the highlights for me. Makes me appreciate the crazy stuff too. Nothing sounds the same to me
Honestly I think another aspect of this is bigger than Jacob, and it's how internet discourse culture, if you can call it that, seems to be tending even more towards pithy comedic critique (at best) and pithy comedic insults (at worst). I think sometimes it's less about what a user truly thinks about an artist, as Mic has unpacked in the video, and way more about having something to say that people will notice. And people tend to notice short, funny, essentialized critiques and insults. What rarely seems to factor into the posting of these statements is 1) how it shapes opinions and reception of the actual art it is ostensibly about (ie. Someone may not actually hate Jacob Collier, but will still make a funny post about hating his crocs because that will give them notice, a sort of discourse capital if you will. They don't care if that leads to a negative general opinion of Jacob Collier, even though that opinion would actually be opposite to their own, because what is more important is gaining that discourse capital, that noticing, by making that post.) and 2) how the artist--or anyone else--might actually feel upon seeing these sometimes very hurtful comments. (Again, because the goal is to gain discourse capital, the conversation is no longer about Jacob Collier, so it doesn't matter how he feels or how people feel about his work). I think a lot of this comes from the collapse of boundaries between creator and audience that the social interent has brought us, but that's a comment for another day.
Nah, people literally just don't like his sound and then the nerds come out and defend him. You are way overthinking this
@user-by6eb6zo7g Judging by the *way* most people criticize him -- or other art they dislike, AJR or whatever -- it definitely sounds reasonable to me, and I think "wanting to be in on the joke" is an unconscious reason why a lot of people speak the way we do. Twitter and similar social media have kinda reinvented "you need to do this to be one of the cool kids"; negative critique reaches further and makes more of an impact than positive critique.
I agree with all of your opinions about him but add this to it: He’s the beneficiary of a large amount of privilege, so as a broke musician who had to seek out and build all of my musical skills without generational wealth/skill, I am very jealous, and that unchecked envy leads to irrational dislike. He was born into a musical family that sang Bach chorales for fun, but I had my first voice lesson and piano class in college. I don’t have access to any and all musical instruments and recording equipment I could ever want, yet he literally named his first album “In My Room” because he literally made it in his room. I’m mad because it’s not fair. I don’t dislike him because of anything he actually does. I’m bitter because he was born 3 feet from the finish line. My dislike is irrational and definitely a me-problem but I can actually acknowledge that. I wonder if this is the actual problem other musicians have with him. We see his life and think, “Must be nice.”
EDIT: I was mistaken in my use of nepotism in my original statement - privilege and nepotism are not the same thing.
Damn dude, I really sympathise with you. I think you're very self-aware and that's something that's gonna take you places in life.
But wouldn't we like our children, siblings, friends, family members to have a childhood like that? Isn't that one of the reasons why so many people try to improve the world? so that there is no injustice and we can give more people that type of childhood?
@@m.dave2141 Absolutely! I would love for everyone to have every opportunity to thrive. I hate the "I had to suffer, therefore, so should you" mentality. It's absolutely toxic. I'm more of a "I had to suffer, so I'm making the world a better place so no one else should have to." So I don't talk shit about Jacob Collier's music because his music isn't my personal problem. But it's up to us as music fans to decide what artists we want to support. And if I'm choosing between an artist that I can relate to and an artist that has had most things handed to them, I will likely choose the one I relate to because that's the art that resonates with me the most.
You said it true, but let me provoke something: is he really a nepo-baby? He is the son of a teacher of a great academy of music, his mother must have contacts, sure. But does this make he a nepo-baby? It appears that the only thing his mother did was teach him music and give him a place to start. Nepo-babies are people who inherited something from their parents, usually money and prestige. He didn't do that. I agree with your insight, but disagree on this point.
@@emmanuelfernandes5610 Very true, not quite the definition of nepotism. I was mistaken. He did earnestly earn all of his skills with no economic or structural barriers preventing him from doing so. He is the beneficiary of a large amount of privilege. Which again, is not something that is wrong with him, but something that makes him not relatable to me.
I think Jacob Collier is a prodigiously talented musician, but I don't always click with his music as much as I'd like to
👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
But when i click, damn!
A musician, not an artist.
that colin and samir interview is literally the best interview ive ever seen hes such a personality
yeah but is a shame that they choose that title. 10/10 interview tho
Honestly, I think Collier's biggest flaw is that he's too clean. Black Midi is another highly technical British artist with strange vocals and lots of instruments, but their songs are about fucked-up stuff and the arrangements often lean into dissonance and atonality.
The discourse is getting more toxic, because discourse IN GENERAL is getting more toxic, and extreme. Sad... :(
I used to be very into jacob collier when I was a teenager but I find that his work just feels weightless to me now. A lot of his music points to emotions but rarely manages to actually make me feel them. Like, nothing ever goes wrong in a Jacob Collier track. He never misses a beat, his voice never cracks, pitch deviations feel calculated to the cent. It feels like he could walk into traffic with his eyes closed and the cars would simply miss him.
As for why people hate him so much, I think there's probably a class element to it. You hear the accent, you see his dozens of expensive instruments, you think about how much free time and access to education you'd need to learn everything he's learned and you realise just how few people ever had the opportunity to become the kind of artist he is. I think his style of maximalism can feel kinda insulting. When so many genres are defined by the material conditions that birthed them, and maximalism is defined by its lack of limitation, it can feel like his music is made for people who don't know how much a loaf of bread costs.
i am the opposite, when i was younger (not a teenager.....cause i am older than Jacob) i didn't like him very much, i wasn't feeling anything from his music, now i really like his stuff, because i can finally hear his emotions he puts in his music, and this works even retroactively as well.
I agree, I think he's so good at music theory and making everything make sense that even the most chaotic tracks feel calculated. And sometimes the best part of music is when you hear emotion and soul, and sometimes his work can lack that sort of emotional depth. Jacobs music is kind of like what math sounds like as a song.
Hm, the class thing is an interesting perspective. i’m not sure whether or not I agree. I might have to ponder that a bit.
I think the social class argument makes sense, but what parent wouldn't like to give their child a childhood like that? When we finally find a person who had such parents we hate them for being luckier than us? That to me just shows a lack of empathy.
I think you're right. Very insightful.
MIC GOT NEW GLASSES WOO WOO
I preferred his old glasses tbh but if he sees better than W for him
I just found his music recently and I can’t stop listening to his version of “how deep is your love” I love how he gets the crowd at his shows involved. I feel like he unifies different music genres into one perfectly messy blend and I can’t get enough of it
Yes, it’s pretty cool hearing the audience choir on the Piano Ballads album! (Smile)
X: Argument.
This dude: Who cares?
Really?
9:17 which is why the ranking and strict categorization of music needs to be abolished in favor of genuine feelings towards art
You genuinely changed my mind and showed how I let my insecurity of my music ability cloud my judgement on Jacob. Thank you Mic Snare.
hell yeah, you don't have to like his music, but he's a cool dude, I recommend the interview "we interview the Mozart of Gen Z" even though the title is really annoying, it is a great interview to get to know him as a human.
Ive realised he is perfectly fine its just his fanbase that is insufferable
@@mignobI guess I am biased, but I don't really think that is true??
@@olivercharles2930 honestly insufferable was a bit of a strong word just annoying
I don’t listen to his music. But the way he explains theory makes me very interested on what he has to say.
wait, i thought literally everyone loved him unconditionally? what the fuck is there not to like, bloke's a bloody genius
This was a such a rich exercise in actual constructive criticism 💚
I'd love to see him work with a strong lyricist like Bernie Taupin/Elton or Nick Hornsby/Ben Folds. I don't have a problem with his lyrics, but it feels like that aspect of his music is less elevated than the others as a result of him being SO good at everything else. Ben Folds is a great lyricist but his work with Nick Hornsby provided us something different.
Not that its a requirement (just got to that part of the video lmao) but.... I'd like to see it? More a possibility that's worth exploring than an outright criticism.
His music feels like a fashion show. Interesting to look at but you'd never wear any of the outfits.
He has a unique perspective, seeing no bounds to music and exploring all the creative possibilities. I think maybe a valid criticism is not honing in on a specific sound as he’s very much a maximalist. The criticisms about him making soulless music is absolutely wild though. If you don’t like it that’s fine, but he has so much passion for what he does and it shows. And the slower tracks he makes are SO beautiful imo, I hope he dedicates more time to that
I didn't realize there was a hate discourse surrounding him. I only ever heard people being overly enthusiastic about him and personally not getting it despite being able to see that he is clearly technically gifted.
Collier has always struck me as a Musician’s Musician. Not that “his music requires a very high iq to understand”, but that the music he makes is what a lot of musicians love to listen to. It’s Weird and Out There™ in ways that musicians in particular love, and the fact that all the technical skill and musical craft is front and center while still having an audience beyond music nerds is incredible. I think the wide selection of collaborations he’s done just goes to show just how much musicians of all styles like him.
Anyway I’m a big fan, and honestly had no idea people hated him
Idk. I'm a music maker (I make music on Ableton Live, though I wouldn't call myself exactly a musician anymore, as I cannot for the life of me play synths well or even the flute), and I have always thought his music is infinite potential thrown into creations that are technically coherent but, frankly, somewhat meaningless.
@@radiofloyd2359 I also see his music as just a chaotic melting pot of ideas. But that's not necessarily a bad thing, especially when you yourself are a musician. I see it more like "here you go, here are 100000 musical ideas, all played in couple of minutes. Many of them you hadn't heard before. Take the ones that you like go do something with them ".
@@zugrath16 But the thing is that the musical ideas are kinda boring, because they fail to express much of anything, really.
@@radiofloyd2359 I think there's a big difference between musical ideas being "boring" and "something that doesn't appeal to you". I definitely wouldn't call his music boring. From a technical perspective he does a lot of things that are interesting. But if you don't like it that's totally fair.
Everybody loved him and said he was the best, and then everyone hated him and said he wasn't that good, and then there's me who really only likes Sleeping On My Dreams and All I Need and will listen to those two forever
Just saw him live and found it very refreshing to see an artist output a luminous, joyous and colourful show performed by...humans who work on their craft. It was also a hard to pin crossover of musical styles delivered with real connection and respect to a crowd that was greatfu and delighted. Totally worth it. Thousands of people singing together just because it feels good, well, feels good. Yeah the world sucks but seing someone with so much talent SMILE and actually doing something positive with his talent gives me hope in humankind. Hey if you don't like the goody-too-shoes vibe, well there's plenty of dark and blasé and discouraging stuff out there, take your pick. Thank you Jacob!
feel you
Why is the discourse getting more toxic? Because internet.
There's a guy on CZcams whose first and only video (at the time) was just him badmouthing Jacob. That's what he decided to build his entire channel off of. It's really sad. Especially when he didn't have good points. He says his clothes are dumb and he's not a good musician. And he had like 2 examples of him playing something live that didn't work very well. Like one instance of him messing up in front of people takes away all of his musicianship. The hate for him is almost as extra as Jacob himself. But yeah, he's popular, he's getting attention, he's gonna get hate no matter what he does.
and what's funnier is that most people's hate towards Jacob's music is that it is TOO perfect and doesn't have any single mistake but then he does commit a mistake live this guy shits on him for "not being a good musician" lol
Bro the croc legend of the gobbos music in the bg for the segment at 1:15 is GOLD attention to detail - one of the most underrated video game soundtracks ever
i think it'd be absolutely insane if every single one of his songs clicked with everyone, he makes such a massive variety of music so it kind of inherently makes it impossible for everyone to love everything he does. he provides a great mix of different styles that I think if someone is open minded enough to listen to some chaotic, random and harmonically rich music, they're probably gonna find at least one song they like.
When I first learned about Jacob Collier, not liking him seemed cool. Now so many people don't like him, liking him seems cool now
Nah, isn't cool.
its very funny to say this when the colin and samir interview calls him "the mozart of gen z" in the title
A lot of people like him though…
Statistically most people like him.
I love some of his tracks, others not so much. I am in awe of his knowledge and work ethic!
What I like most about Djesse 4 is the simplicity that permeates it. Every song has some element of simplicity, like the stillness of Never Gonna Be Alone and Summer Rain, the hymn-like beginning of World O World, or the fact that Bridge Over Troubled Water is a cover of Bridge Over Troubled Water. The two obvious exceptions are 100,000 Voices (the overture) and Box of Stars (the climax).
Maybe I also just relate to it as a fellow 29-year-old music school graduate.
I don't really understand the hate towards djesse vol 4, 100,000 voices, little blue, wherever i go, Cinnamon Crush (amazing song), Summer Rain (really beautiful song), A Rock Somewhere (instrumentally incredible), Never Gonna Be Alone (one of the best), Bridge Over Troubled Water (obviously ), Box Of Stars Pt. 1, Box Of Stars Pt. 2 (uses one of his best melody lines in a sonic exploration of genres that is simply too interesting to consider bad), World O World (a great closing of the 4 albums and a stage in his life), the album, despite not being for everyone, has incredible experiences. I think that the more pop songs prevent people from giving their other songs a real chance.
Any musician in this world should be able to recognize his talent, even if they don't like his music.
Has anyone ever consumed music? Why take the time to shit on someone you don’t like’s work?? Like if you don’t like it just move on and go listen to something you like. Personally I don’t click with most famous artists when it comes to music yet i don’t go out of my way to shit on their work.. people are weird
I will never take any critiques that call the work "cringe" seriously
...based
@@roymarshall_ LMAO
some art has subject matter which needs to be taken seriously and if the piece is cringily executed, can't command respect, solemnity, whatever, then yeah i would say that's a valid complaint. you can say "cringe" is not a moral shortcoming (that's fair) but it absolutely is an artistic one
You should. Plenty of stuff is objectively cringe. As in, large numbers of people physically, involuntarily cringe when they hear it. And that’s a pretty damning criticism that you really should take seriously.
I physically cringe when i hear the metal part on the opening of Djesse Vol 4 album
I truly don't get hating this guy. Like, I think his songwriting isn't good at all, but who cares? He seems like a wonderful guy and is immensely talented, and the way he communicates about music is actual magic. Leave him be!
His song "WELLLL" sounds like 1975's "I'd Love It If We Made It", but instead of lyrically being a discontented generational protest song, it's a kind-of-whatever love song. With a lydian chord progression I guess. He reminds me of being at Berklee - but the part that turns into white noise because it's jazz-flexing for flexing's sake, and not because the artist has anything worth saying. Berklee was an ouroboros of virtuosity getting high on its own farts, and Jacob's music reminds me of this. But he's also probably reaching people with stuff they'll find cool, and getting people excited about musical virtuosity, and in the end, that's pretty great. So I like him even if I don't. FWIW, I think his mixing/production is pretty fun. I also have a degree in it.
People like to make themselves feel bigger and smarter by putting others down 🤔 I'm guessing that explains some of the criticism.
As someone who's only mildly familiar with Jacob but has recently grown fascinated with music theory, this was such a cool video! I'm quite impartial to the "less is more" theory as a writer myself, but I also think the beauty of making art is throwing every idea you have into your project and seeing what sticks. After all, that throwaway idea that came to you in a half asleep stupor could be the thing people connect with the most. I may have to take a deep dive of my own into his work this weekend--if I can tear myself away from my novel anyway 😅
Do the albums chronologically (In My Room, DJesse Vol 1, 2, 3, 4) BUT some of the best stuff is online in Mahogany Session or in live performances like the concert ion Lisbon or in his improvised piano solos covers of well known songs. That's where the audience comes in.
@happyendings_15
I've literally never heard of Jacob Collier before. I was watching this vid for a couple of minutes wondering if this was some type of April Fool's joke and he was going to say that the guy was from some SNL skit or something lol
I could have said that maybe til 2022. Its now hard to escape his CZcams musical footprint if you follow a lot of these channels. I've probably watched more videos on him discussing music than his actual songs
People are making up personalities at this point. This name sounds like it belongs to a series or a movie character, not a real life person.
I read the titles as "In defense of Jacob Geller" and I was confused why video game essay guy would need defending
ditto
His music isn't really for me, but the "extraness" is actually pretty fun, I love it when songs suddenly switch to something else, or have weird polyrythmic stuff, or combine genres completely different or whatever.
i feel like jacob is someone id love to have a conversation with but don't really care to listen to one of his albums with all the way through lol
For whatever reason, I keep confusing Jacob Collier with Jacob Sartotius, and Jacob Sartotius with Bryan Stars.
My biggest issue is I just can’t connect with any of his music.
I’ve tried, and all I got from it was Me Bungle without a sense of irony.
But I get no emotional connection with him, and so I just find him very boring.
I do however hope he doesn’t stop because I think in 10 or 20 years, he’ll release a killer album.
Heck, if he takes the response on his latest album and channels it into something creative, I think he may make that killer album sooner than 10 years.
As with many musical geniuses, it becomes intellectual jazzfunk, and that's boring.
As a lover of Jacob Collier, I am bracing myself. Plz be kind
Great video. I think you made some really interesting and important points about Jacob and his music and I think this video was necessary to address the inflamed and even toxic discourse around his new album. I didn't love it. But I respect it, and it moved me.
Also to be fair I think Djesse v3 is by far considered the most 'poppy' of the volumes. V4 is sort of just be every genre he could think of. But again lets be fair and recognize that Jacob has stated (in his Mexico City talk) that he rejects the idea of genre at face value.
Also, about his lyrics: I agree with the notion that they may be seen as devoid of storytelling or real emotional depth. I do look for that in music. I think it's an important aspect of songwriting, whereas Jacob seems to focus more on stuff like harmony. But honestly, at the end of the day, his hidden message is "if you don't like it, I don't mind." Which is inspiring. He makes what he wants to make without thinking about how it may be seen or judged. I respect that.
Harry Styles said in an interview that when working on Harry's House and a little bit in Fine Line, he stopped trying to make the music people wanted to hear, he started making the music he loved, and that he wanted to hear. This is the main reason I fell in love with Jacobs music. Yes he is incredibly talented and yes that can make it a bit much at times, but he is sharing the music he loves, we just so happen to take in enough of it that he could make his life around it. In my personal opinion, he embodies what making music is, not because of the talent, but because of the care and personality. You could say the same about so many other artists too
I think a lot of Jacob's musical insights are really interesting. Like one time I had to explain the circle of fifths to someone as "the color wheel but for music", but later I had to stop and think about how much of a metaphor that actually is. Color and pitch are both determined by frequency, so maybe there's a correlation. Then I saw Jacob talk about adding notes to a chord from the left or right side of the circle of fifths to change the brightness of a chord with what he described as a "light" and "dark" side and I was like "Holy shit!" because it's the same way with the color wheel and cool and warm tones. I don't know if that connection has ever been stated but I've never seen anyone talk about that before.
You might like to look up Milton Mermikides. He's a musician/academic, and an excellent commentator on music ideas and theory. He uses similar dark and light imagery to explore these ideas. He's doing an excellent lecture series at the moment for Gresham College (published on their CZcams channel) and his own CZcams channel and website are fascinating.
Good video Micheal the snaredrum. But I still think his music is the epitome of “hey guys look what I can do!”
And?
@@RobertAKAMrBag it comes at the cost of his music and any emotional value
@@Ethan-sv3pi
What do you think he should be doing?
Like, as an actual idea, what should Jacob's music sound like without his talent going in the way?
@@tsg_frank5829 I'm not saying he can't use his talent, that's not what I mean at all. I just mean that it feels like all of his songs feel to me like he's trying to flex that talent instead of putting it to good use
@@Ethan-sv3piif you watch his interviews carefully you'll notice that doesn't make sense with how he works and motivates him, which might signal some bias from you.
Jacob Collier is the Rick and Morty of the music world. any criticism of him for a long time was brushed away as "you just aren't musically smart enough to enjoy the complexity of what he makes" and that attitude is cringe as shit. he's slapped on this giant untouchable pedestal and plenty of people hate his stuff just because of that reputation
I love his work for its undeniably unique sound, but above all I absolutely adore his mentality about music and creativity in general.
I mean lets be real... there is something wrong with you if you don't like this man's crazy ass music.
all of my friends are musicians, they all feel the same "its brilliant but i dont enjoy it" i feel alone on an island, cant think of an artist in my 40+ years that has made records ive found as captivating. I get so enjoyably lost in his works.
As someone who did vocal jazz in high school i have been waiting for this moment
If everybody could watch that video of Jacob expressing what he feels that "every emotion" sounds like and afterwards tried to listen to "In the real early morning" from "In my room", people would start to understand how beautiful and amazing his songwriting is. You can feel every single chord and note being completely attached to the message of the song, it feels otherworldly....But, just a few people would have real interest in trying to understand the "artist" and "person" that Jacob is🤷🏻♂️
Very well said
i had some trouble first time through his records, but with each subsequent listen i like them more. and his interviews are really great.
This whole video could be applied to just about any art. In gaming, there tends to be this entitlement around things not being what people want to play on an individual basis. You can't expect somebody else's art to cater to your personal taste every time. You just need to find the art that is relevant to you.
My response to these complaints is always the same; screaming at the Mona Lisa won't stop her from smiling.
I think the problem people have is that it feels like a fetishization of some universal concept 'musical skill' that to many people is antithetical to the value of music, or art itself. It's not just a problem of elitism, but of a sense that his music only exists as an exercise in mastery, to 'show how it's done.' This may be a mischaracterization of Jacob Collier, the musician, and his personal philosophy of music, as the clips you show in this video and what I've seen in interviews seem to show that, for Jacob, music theory serves the same purpose that obscure instruments or wacky logic pro techniques do -- they're all toys to play with.
I get the impression that this sense of 'perfection' or 'mastery' isn't even something that Collier himself strives for, but something that the content machine posits how his persona and music are to be consumed. But I will say, it's also not something he challenges often. For those who love lo-fi recordings, off-beat, out-of-tune vocals, sloppy guitar solos, disorienting dance rhythms, Jacob Collier's music, and the way it seems to be marketed to/consumed by his fans, seems to posit a different set of values about what is so great about music, a set of values that does not run parallel but is entirely contradictory to "ours," the Jacob Collier detractors.
I think there is a strand of Jacob Collier haters who are anti-intellectual, who think that the mechanisms music cannot be articulated in any way or that there is value in pushing these mechanisms to new places, and while I sympathize with their love of music as fundamentally experiential, I can't in good faith endorse this argument which might be used to reduce musical exploration. I think the "sounds like disney" thing might be related to my point here -- Collier's whole image of being a master of music theory, of the technical and esoteric craft of music, is attached to music that sounds like content. Sure, there's a djent solo or an IDM breakdown, but it feels like the whole purpose of the djent solo seems to be to that he put a djent solo or an IDM breakdown, because those are just esoteric enough to seem impressive.
I think DJESSE 4 is his best to date, because of how much of what I've heard from the album seems more focused on rhythm and texture rather than harmony, which itself poses challenges to western conceptions of harmony as the center point of music and music theory. It's by far his most listenable project.
Great video BTW! I saw while writing this that I'm not the only one who wrote a full essay in the comments XD
I agree with everything you said but "For those who love lo-fi recordings, off-beat, out-of-tune vocals, sloppy guitar solos, disorienting dance rhythms", Jacob has songs where he explores these concepts, the principle of Bridge Over Troubled Water has a cell phone recording (I think), by YEBBA, its melodic lines sometimes have microtonal moments that can be considered out of tube vocals, and it has several songs where the rhythm is in strange times, unusual tuplets like 7 or 9 or even non-quantized times like With the love in my heart.
I think that the idea that many people have of what his music proposes is largely because they did not listen to much of his music or did not pay enough attention to notice those details, but I do agree that, as you say, they are not concepts that he pushes very often.
@@m.dave2141 Like I said at the end, I think this new album is the best because I feel like these elements are actually being used to create texture, instead of being used for the sake of displaying complexity.
I think a lot of people will write off this album because it does have sonic similarities and similar ethos to his previous work, and I do still have my problems with it, but it does seem to value texture over complexity and as a result feels a lot less like a spectacle and more like a holistic listening experience.
i have only ever listened to one song from Jacob and that’s his cover of moon river, and you can say whatever about the rest of his music but that song is transcendental
loved the video, off topic but the hair and glasses look really great on you
I am one of those people who loves his music and listen to it all the time. I can see why it would not be everyone’s cup of tea, but it just clicks with my brain. I love how cray cray it is. I also think Jacob is a wonderful person and someone who is so kind and insightful - he’s a fabulous person and his energy just does make me more positive. His lyrics are gorgeous and flow from that same spirit 😊 I also think art is necessary - we need to feed our soul or we wither away! I reject the question whether Jacobs art is necessary because it’s arrogant for someone to decide what art is necessary. Jacobs music feeds the souls of many !