Installing air suspension on a Citroen Relay / Boxer / Ducato / Pro Master
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- čas přidán 16. 09. 2021
- In this video I install my air suspension, a basic kit from eBay. I encounter problems right from the start and need to break out the welder :-(
- Jak na to + styl
THANK YOU SO much for making this. Thanks to you I got mine in yesterday. I DID need a breaker bar for the spring nuts, I DID break off the welds in the bump stop and I DID need to grind a section of the cup away to let me grab the bolt with a vise grip and swear profusely until I got them out 3.5 hours later!
ONE MAIN suggestion I would say for anyone attempting this. Follow WCC steps to the letter except....
1. Whilst outside the van, connect your air hose to the bellows, then step on the bellow to compress it down all the way to the floor. Attach the valve to the other end of the hose (making an airtight seal) and it keeps the bellow tightly compressed and easy to slip into the little space between the leaf-springs and bracket.
2. Then add the U-Bolts for the leaf springs very loosely- its easier at this stage because theres plenty of room to wiggle around.
3. then you can release air into the bellows to let it rise incrementally to help you find your bolt holes for the top bolts, nipping them in as you go.
nice one!
Sorry to read you had the same troubles, it is obviously a common thing and great additional tips, especially tip 1. thanks for watching.
@@wiltshirecustomcamper7203 suceesful install no leaks!
Spot on all the fiddly bits made easy with these suggestions thank you!!
Fitted mine today, followed a lot of the guidance on here…
I compressed to bag in a vice and then clamped up the end of the air pipe, this made it so much easier to fit the bag in between leaf spring and cup, I also marked up on the outer side of the top of the bag where the holes where, it was then easier to align up. Fit the U bracket towards the rear first and then slide the bottom plate under. I then fired the u bracket at the front and gently let the air out unto the bag had partially opened up. This the allowed me to line up the bolts with the marking on the top plate of the bag. I just the tightened up the 4 bolts. I also have a Dewalt impact driver which I bought a 1/2 socket drive for, £4 from eBay, made it so easier than using a ratchet, remembering to start the nut on a couple of a threads first so you don’t cross thread it, nipped em all and jobs a good un!
great tip. I need to remove them shortly to install LHD leaf springs so will try out the tip. cheers.
When I installed mine I squeezed all the air out of the bellow, folded over the end of the 6mm nylon hose and put a cable tie on.
so the below stayed in the fully compressed position, then removed the cable tie to allow it to press on the top plate.
Good idea hammering the folded edge over, I struggled like f**** to get those bolts in.
THanks for the comment. Yes, whoever designed those bellows and the bolt positions needs to do one more then change jobs.... I even considered welding the black bolt to the top plate so once fixed to the bellow it could be screwed into place like the bump stops?!?!
Good job. I know it’s a bit late, but when I done it I wedged the scissor lift between the bottom of the van and the crown bar sort of separate them even more. Then you lower it back again when the bolts need to be tightened!
Greg
Top tip for others, thanks for the input.
Have the same ebay kit that you do, but when I fitted it I brought the both the air pipes up to a manifold with a pair of 1/4 ball valves between the pipes and the schrader valve. The way the standard kit is configured the two bellows are linked, so when you go round a roundabout, or get blown by a side wind, the side that compresses (left rear wheel on a roundabout reduces volume and transfers increased pressure to the right wheel) causing the suspension to extend and raise the body in relation to the wheel on the right. This magnifies body roll and is the opposite of what is required, however when piped seperately so that the left and right are pressurised as completely separate systems, the wheel under compression will increase in pressure, thereby increasing effective spring rate to resist compressive forces, the opposite side will try to extend its suspension travel thus reducing effective spring rate and reduce the extension of the suspension. The overall benefit of plumbing as two systems is an increase in roll stiffness, rather than a reduction, and an imprevent in cornering and improved handling in crosswinds. Marcle Leisure sell the manifold to separate the systems as shown in"Diamond Dave Newell's" CZcams video on air assist rear suspension. Another benefit of separate systems on left and right, is that you can level the van on a pitch, by pumping up both sides with the 1/4 turn valves open, then close the valve on the low side and let air out of the high side by depressing the "tit" on the schrader valve until the rear is level (within the 1 - 7 bar range of the airbags), or even level from to rear. I have also added Lesjofors heavy duty front springs to keep the front and rear roll stiffness in ballance and allow chassis up plating to 4.0 tonnes and the accompanying reduction in vehicle excise licence fees.
Thanks fro your comment. I will give it a try over the coming months and will make amendments if needed or even scrap it and go with sumo springs but will withhold judgment for now. top tips however, thank you
@@wiltshirecustomcamper7203 .No worries! Great series, these jobs are hard enough, but can't imagine all the extra hassle of videoing at the same time! I take my hat off to you, it's people like you that inspire people like me! Keep up the great work!
Hi there Neil, I understand totally what you mean but not fitted mine yet, would you be able to draw a diagram of what you did and post it to here? Getting the cups off was difficult as seen, the not came off the weld so I got hacksaw blade between cup and chassis and cut it off. I bought a breaker bar off Amazon , £24, which got the Ubolt nuts loose, but then bought a 1/2 drive bit for my dewalt impact driver, came off dead easy, will use them to put back on, always remember to start the nut off on a couple of threads though. Great videos I’ve got the Citroen relay L4H3, would be good to talk sometime to you all
Brilliant job.Thanks for sharing.!!!!!!!😊😊
Thank you! Cheers!
I reckon a 6x2 frame under the axle and take the wheel off and some axle stands some where that looks hard work
i have rear air on my Ducato i pump mine up with a tiny bike pump and it only takes a minute for each one, air suspension works a treat
thanks for the info and for watching.
When I did mine the threads in the chassis for the top mounts striped, so I had to slide a nut in a spanner up the chassis and attach the top mounts that way what a pain, oh the joys of building a campervan 🤪
Sounded like fun. perhaps I got off lightly.
I have noticed on several videos of this procedure that the tubing goes into the top of the bellows, not the bottom. That would make sense as the top doesn't move, unlike the lower part.
makes sense but the top is so tight I cant see how i would have fitted it in any sensible way. thanks for the comment and suggestion however.
I'm lucky with my van it's a heavy fiat ducato and came with the factory self leveling air suspension as an option , so I don't have to worry about soggy springs 👍
So did mine but after only 20000 miles the levlling sensors have gone faulty £554 for 2 iam going to sling some of these in leaving the original belows in situe hopefully to cure the constant banging on the bump stops when it fails
Hi there! Great video. I just want to let you know that I first installed the SUMMO SPRINGS, and after one year... my van get rested on them so the comfort became terrible. So now im going to install an airsuspentuon like you.
Thanks for sharing!
Thank you. Very helpful
Glad it was helpful!
excellent video thanks
You are welcome!
Interesting content. I’m not so sure leaving pipe work coiled under the van is a good idea. Enough flexibility to cover the full range of movement of the axle, and remove the unwanted extra pipe. I’d be concerned about the possibility of catching road debris or obstacles on site, and removing the loose pipe. Cable ties aren’t going to resist much. Keep up the content. Thank you.
Great point!
À
Loved your video, had exactly the same problem with mine when replacing the bump stops although It was the captive nut inside the chassis that came away , needless to say I haven’t sorted it yet was thinking of putting double leaf springs on instead , why did you choose air suspension.
I chose air suspension as I was not aware of Sumo springs when I bought it. Now in hindsight, I would give careful consideration to both options and which is better/worse for the price difference. check out Urban Ark Overland for a sumo spring install on a Sprinter.
Perhaps a small scissor jack between chassis and axle to ease the bellows in.
Interesting idea, the best one I've heard so far from a fellow viewer was to squish the bellow down to get most of the air out and then fit a small bolt into the fitting to keep it compressed whilst wiggling it into place. great idea though and thanks for the comment.
Good job, if you do it again, i find its easier to compress the bags on the ground first then block off the end of the pipe so no air gets into the bag. This way is flat as a pancake then you can install it easily and open up the pipe after you finish :-)
I don't think I would install airbags again. shortly after completing the task I discovered Sumosprings & Supersprings thanks to UrbanArkOverland so would probably go that way on next build.
@@wiltshirecustomcamper7203 I actually discovered them through him actually. I have looked into them and would use them also in the next build as I want to build Fiat Ducato L4H3 because it’s abit square and I can get the wall panels from solway, hopefully they would have H3 version then lol.
Great video thanks...how do you know what pressure to set the bellows at..??
Thanks for the great question. In fact I don't really. I just go by the height achieved on the wheel arch above the tyre and found that 2 bar seem to do just nicely and give the van the appearance of not being overloaded. it will go much more than 2 bar but I think that is fine, well, for me anyhoo!
You have the two air suspensions connected together? Keep the two lines separated for stability.
no problems yet with stability so happy with choice.
feel ur pain! when welding did u disconnect battery or leave van running?
Disconnect battery or leave running you say? I was hoping for a third option of not thinking about it and just cracking into it!?! luckily it worked out fine .
Great video. How do you work out what pressure to use?
Licked a finger and held it up to the wind..... just went with 2 bar and had a look at heights to see and that seems about peachy for my van.
As always..👍👍
Thank you! Cheers!
Does the air assist. Increase the ride height?
What size do BFG KO2 do you have?
yes, the ride height at the back is increased and does good job of 'masking' a heavy van! as for the BFG's, cant really answer as it depends on your wheels? for me there was no direct match for the Citroen Relay standard tyres so had to get closest match. rim and width are same but height a smidge more if I recall.
Cannot you use grippers to grab the round bolt (pipe grippers)
Possibly depending how tight it is, I tried some mole grips but they just slipped off. thanks for the suggestion though. cheers.
Wd 40 on all the nuts 24 hours before you do the job makes things a lot less of a pain to get apart and less likely to snap bolts
I did not realise you could spray so far in advance, i assumed it would just dry out again. great tip.
would it be better with independent suspension for a camper?
On the journeys I have made so far I have not noticed any body roll at the rear to suggest the air is all leaving one side and going to the other so seems fine, but is early days yet still and the double leak springs may be masking it anyway. If I become aware of it I will look at splitting them but for now seems fine. regards.
Great video - Any tips on how tight to do those air pipe compression fittings?
I did them finger tight plus a couple of quarter turns with a spanner, so not very very tight at all. Hope that helps..
@@wiltshirecustomcamper7203 thanks - I've had a slow leak on mine and have tighted them up more but think I may have overdone it.
@@Bannister99 Did you manage to sort this? I have a slow leak on mine too.
@@georgeclayton5890 yes I cut the pipe and made the connections again and that seemed to sort it
Another great video. Do you have a link to the ebay kit you used? Thanks
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264711403385
It's easier if you squeeze bag down and keep other end of air hose on your tongue creates an air lock
great tip, I guess a spare short piece of pipe and a pair of mole grips would have same affect.
@@wiltshirecustomcamper7203 yes sir 👍
A bit of penetrating oil on the threads might have helped undoing them.
Thanks for the suggestion, I did try some of that in the early rounds of the fight but alas it did not work.
Couldn't you have left the bump stops on and fitted the air cylinders further along the axle
Yes, apart from the fact they are designed and supplied with brackets to go specifically in that place.
After a year how well are these working please?
All good. they lose a little bit of pressure over a couple of months but take only a minute or so to 'top up' so very happy.
what u think of it now? 🤔
All good. I might consider having them connected independently of each other in the future so the air does not move from one side to the other on a sharp bend. if that makes sense.
@@wiltshirecustomcamper7203 Or you could put a restrictor close to both bag in the air line so the air can't move so quickly. Or even one restrictor would do I think.
Can’t you just put a one way valve next to each bellow?
a bit harsh and demeaning to LIDL employees dude?. i guarantee that a lot of lidl workers are actually graduates, that cant find a job in there own field.
If they are graduates and working in Lidl perhaps they graduated in the wrong field? just a thought. Also, I did not realise I was demeaning to Lidl employees?
@@wiltshirecustomcamper7203 most graduates dont work in the field they graduated in! Theyre trying to dodge paying the loan 😂😂😂