The Off-Meta Build That Won A World Championship
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2020
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Swede here. The way you pronounced "Jönköping" was better than any other english speaker I've heard. You even nailed the "k" which is pronounced "sh" in this name. This level of attention to details is one of the many things that makes your documentaries really stand out. Keep up the good work mate!
I was sure he fucked up pronunciation just by default.
Haha i tought he said a chineas town first, then I realised he said jönköping. That "Ping" got me
To be clear, its still butchered, but i have to agree, very well done by gbay. Truly a detail oriented documentary maker.
I gotta admit... while it *IS* fun to watch Gbay grind through solo queue and soft rage after getting ganked from river because he pushed up with no wards, this content is so much more his calling.
Documentaries take time and dedication to the subject matter, which he has shown time and time again. I never used to really care about pro league, whether past or present (except maybe being curious if any other region would ever take LCS worlds from Korea) but these videos and stories have really been entertaining and educational, and even besides the actual stories and players themselves, I often find myself learning fringe facts and tidbits about the history of the game that are always neat.
TLDR:* Keep up the good work Gbay. Documentaries are definitely your thing.
who cares about a silly rank anyway man all you get is a skin
Really well said, I’m glad Gbay found his calling, seems like he’s having fun too
He just needs to learn Irelia
Gbay might have found his niche as the historian of competitive League
no offense to him, but i might turn on notifications again!
I remember riot fixing his headbutt combo so it is easier to cast.
Hearing somebody say today that alistars combo was a way of skill expression may sound weird but i remember it being messed up fairly frequently even by good players
The main issue with it before was that you needed below 20 ping to consistently pull it off. It was pretty much impossible to pull it off 100% unless you lived next to the servers (or lived in Korea), or in tournament play.
@@ballboys607 thats not true. I pulled it off consistently with 60 ping or more. It was about timing which took practice.
iirc now there is a small buffer time period when the W hasn't yet finished where pressing Q will complete the combo once W ends. Previously there wasn't so the timing had to be really good for it to work.
I remember needing to W while out of range, waiting for Ali to walk up untill he charges at full range. That was the easiest way to do the combo for me. What was that, like season 3, 4?... Not sure. I started playing mid S3, Wonder when the change that made it easier was out.
I remember feeling like an idiot for missing it after it was fixes
And after all of this we didn't get an Alistar Fnatic skin.....
He picked gragas
@@jerahmeelcruz5341 No, Riot picked the most played champions, according to lol.gamepedia:
Riot later created and released Fnatic-themed skins, a custom for World Championship winners, and chose each player's most-played champions during the Season 1 Worlds:
Jarvan IV (Cyanide),
Karthus (xPeke),
Gragas (Shushei),
Corki (LamiaZealot) and
Janna (Mellisan).
@@guardener true they start asking players in 2013
Dude literally cosplayed Gragas.
Btw, S2, they took the Worlds last winning line up as skins.
On G2's channel, their players once played a game in which they had to name as many season 1 players as they could. Perkz, right off the bat, said "Shushei". I think it's great that contemporary stars of the game still remember who paved the way for them, and it shows how aware Perkz is of his game's story.
i think it was caps but yeah
There was a video on G2 channel where Rekkles and Micky were answearing some questions and talking and Micky said that he was a big fan of fnatic because of Shushei and he even used to play midlane with ap Ali and ap Gragas, because of that first team he had try out for was fnatic. So yeah, Shushei had pretty big influence on the scene ;p
When you suddenly remember Doublelift is a Blitzcrank one trick in Epik Gamer
Dude i thought the same thing
When you remember that cause you were his substitute player for Epik... Countless hours chatting/arguing with Elementz about theory crafting and developing gold efficiency charts for league. Trying out everything and anything because it was interesting to say what if...
And when Dyrus was an ADC main lol
czcams.com/video/VruLS2aeDI4/video.html HONESTLY HAD NO IDEA HE WOULD DO THIS
@@Alice429800 or Yellowstar played adc in tournaments :D
Wonder when TheScore Esports will rip this off
Give it a week
@@CasaiAgicap 2 days take it or leave it
@@Justpim19 why wait at all I'll send them the link they can have it out tonight
@@Justpim19 i was being generous, but you're probably not wrong
Nahhh, they can't; faker's zed outplay wasn't shown during the conclusion when they talked about crazy mechanics; and TheScore is contractually obliged to include that clip.
The wave of nostalgia that forms from seeing all these old highlights and players is really something special. God I wish I could go back to the glory days of league...
Remembering the playing the old map again, brought tears to my eyes.
In a bad way.
He should've played the Reginald - Wildturtle video 😂😂
All the champs are freaking broken tho
@@wilkinlowWhen everyone is broken, nobody is broken. It was better then when that exists to now when people are only strong right before a new skin is released.
You might say the same thing a couple of season from now, enjoy what you have while it last...
10:33 Proof that Gragas had way too high ratio on his e
Holy you forgot about his R XDDDD fountain oneshots
best champ in the game, riot killed him
I think that was talking about shushei bodyslam on stage on his mate that was their adc lol
@@6700adam maybe you didn't play season 2 to 4 because it was Gragas every game, seeing it die was a pleasure.
Thanks to that I understood that Riot didn't know how to balance a game or didn't care and switched to DotA.
10:35 dude wtf ahahahahah
Lmfao I didnt even see that haha
dude got headbutt pulverized
Gragas cosplay
I saw that live. It was amazing cause they laughed so hard afterwards that dude hardly got up cause belly started hurting (belly slam contributed I feel ;P)
There's a reason Shushei was known as the real world Gragas (despite this video being about his performance on AP Ali). You can see it very briefly at 19:27 ; that's Shushei doing an Impromptu gragas cosplay to celebrate their big win, with his shirt undone to expose his belly, and a watercooler as his barrel
Shushei was such a crazy personality as well, and I can remember his time on DB pretty well. Playing crazy strats like Elise mid or bot, and he was pretty impressive with Lux mid. Sad he faded away so early.
Its crazy that I havent touched league in like 5 or 6 years, this is the only league channel Im still subbed to and I still enjoy it so much.
15:29 wow the Dyrus adc and Doublelift support duo. That is something I wish I could have been there to experience.
Doublelift also goes AD Blitz with Trinity Force, it was surely enjoyable to watch back then
Yeah they like played double brusier in the bot lane. Think they tried playing that against EU in early competitions and got absolutely smashed as EU was already starting to invent the 1/1/2 meta with adc and support. The whole Taric/Blitz botlane thing got run over!
8 years later DOINB won worlds using a tank (played as a support) with AP items ! (Nautilus AP)....History repeats itself :D
I wouldn’t call DoinB’s Naut a “full AP damage-dealing champion”
you are bronze i don't want to be rude xD
also he didnt carry FPX as shown by final MVP award which was given to Tian and could have gone to crisp but not to doinb
LOL the hate in one comment XD G2's or EU's fans crying
@@hansimgluck6789 Woulden't agree. Yes Tian was insane but Doinb was literally the shot caller that initiated almost everything,
How do you have this much time to make these? They are always really good quality! :)
It's his 9 to 5 and he loves doing it
to be fair, the distance between uploads shows he takes his time to create these good videos.
A little thing called quarantine maybe
@@greenjacket2 even not in quarantine he make quality videos. His 3M views doc for M5 was also good and that was a year ago
He’s got plenty of experience and he likes it. When something is a passion, it doesn’t feel like work and you really strive to make it done well.
Ah the good old days...
I still remember the moment Shushei played his first public pro game as Alistar mid.
Everyone was like: "Wait...what?! This pick is op"
Oh and Shushei was also the OG best Anivia player in the world back in season 1. You know, before Froggen and the Koreans arrived.
Ah good old CLG eu times.
Froggen has reputation of Anivia God, but Toyz from TPA owned him in Anivia/Karthus matchup, both when Froggen was on Anivia and Toys on Karthus and vice versa.
@@vulekv93 toyz is still the best orianna ive seen
I feel like it's also important to note that it's not just his exotic picks that won them the world championship, it's also Shushei's crazy roaming. The mapawareness and ability to predict the enemy movement he has shown back then was absolutely exceptional. The exotic picks with lots of burst and mobility just highlighted that.
Phenomenal documentary, thanks for making it!! I love to learn about League's past :)
Amazing gbay !!! you deserve so much recognition for the quality of your documentrys !!
These docs give me chills. The environment you create is so great. Congratulations man! Loved it
That's the definition of an "O.P. player" literally created new metas that Riot had to nerf the champs, i mean he won the game back then
he was my hero for years after i started lol in s1 i tryharded 3 seasons to be dia 1 and i finaly faced this guy in soloq SHUSHEI it was on stream and he honored my plays cause we won of me it was on of my best days in my life not gonna lie
Gbay, these are really, really good.
Not many people can make this kind of content. I swear you have a talent for making documentaries.
You've achieved a really professional story flow with the docs. Also while making a complete plot. Good stuff.
I'm really glad I watched this video
The production quality is fantastic, and I ended up really liking Shushei's story
It's bittersweet that he's been kind of forgotten to time, I hope it's some form of consolation that you can spread his story to thousands now
"The game has moved on from such strategies"
Literally every Malphite: I reject your reality.
S11 rengar: _funny_
Man, it's so sad. I always cry with your documentaries because of how heartfelt and how someone so good just disappears. I hope your channel grows. It's so inspiring how you can make someone feel so attached to someone they've never heard of for the entirety of their lives through a twenty minute video
I really like your shorter docs! Your style of narration and the perfect length of the videos are great! I love it!
The sad thing is that, when something like this happens in actual league, riot brands it as "a mistake" and changes it asap to mantain the meta they want at that point.
when you see Doublelift is on Lee Sin and the only player still playing today you know the game is old
dyrus played for a long time to and so do others just not at this lvl :D
Soaz still there...
Pobelter, Wildturtle
or on Blitzcrank
Yellowstar is in the video, and also still playing today
Man, gbay popping out with the quality content is amazing to watch, and even better to see him enjoy doing this documentarys. We know the effort he puts into this vids, gotta say I for one appreciate it enormously, keep popping gbay! Much love from spain
Thank you Gbay. I'm an old head when it comes to league, watching your documentaries on the season 1, 2, and 3 days truly warms my heart.
I miss the old seasons when you could play characters in different unique ways... Might as well have the items autobuy now besides 1-2 flex item picks :(
Play what you want man, my friend and i play weird botlanes in ranked together all the time. Things like wukong-taric, braum-taric, or jarvin-pantheon.
@@user-tg3jl1mt4e playing champions in different lanes or in weird combos is different then building a champion to have a unique play style then how others play them. Now there is strict ways as the correct way to play someone. Champions are meant to be played as not with. I dont have a playstyle with Evelyn. Evelyn has a playstyle. They usually will nerf to ground or rework because it easier to balance If they go off their intended role too far. There are still some exceptions, I am successful with AP shaco mid in lower elo for example, but when I used to play him top they nerfed his boxes with a mini rework. It could be nostalgia, but I think I remember champions having viable, varied build paths and playstyles
@@matthewjensen5093 People get better over time. The reason you can't do all of that anymore is because the more time people spend, the more refined they are and the more a meta establishes itself as dominant. Thus, all other picks become inferior.
The reason you could do tons of shit in old seasons is because people were just worse.
@@matthewjensen5093 theres only one or two ways to build a champion is because those builds are what is considered to be the most efficient.
@@matthewjensen5093 Its not that those unique playstyles dont get created/exist anymore, but once a champ has a unique strong playstyle people will copy it and play it themselves.
If some playstyle can compete with the Meta, it just becomes the Meta.
I dont mind tho. Being unique isnt worth anything. One should appreciate the playstyles for what they are, not for how "unique" they seem.
Hey Gbay i've been watching you for about ~6 years now. I stopped watching when you had a content creator identity crisis and started doing daily uploads because i knew that just wasn't the type of videos you wanted to make or i wanted to watch. I'm just really glad to see you making the videos much more akin to the ones i subscribed for those years ago even if you are still releasing your 'road to x elo' videos.
Have really been enjoying these league documentary style vids you’ve been making gbay. I miss you raging and flaming yourself, but I do think you’ve been doing an amazing job on these vids. Please keep them coming!
Amazing video Gbay. I am very glad that you havent lost your spirit of making videos for LoL. Great script, great commentary, great editing. Overall a very very nice video! I enjoyed every second of it. Good job!
This was a great trip down memory lane seeing old names and such. Although me and my friends would play AP Alistar and Gragas before seeing it at S1 worlds but we weren't very good with it and only saw it as a fun cheesy build with little to no viability, boy were we wrong.
"Creative builds like this are gone"
DoinB: I'm a joke to you?
off meta builds got almost killed thats why lol is so boring now
Jacek Wałasiewicz again to gabriel’s point an off meta build literally won the 2019 worlds playiffs.
Putting a tank with high base damage on mid lane isnt really reinventing the wheel
Viable hybrid scalings nearly got eliminated completely. Mixed damage output on a single char too. The game was made much more predictable (for pro play mainly) and creativity was hurt in the process. There are even 18 chars without even a single AP scaling.
A creative build isn't just about the role. The item build matters too, and that is what has been crippled in the process to fit this game into e-sports
@@ohlala9546 I agree and it even makes other stuff weird - like Lee Sin. Only his w scales with AP, on a champ that will never build AP, and the items in league now don't facilitate any kind of hybrid options. The old Triforce with AP might make sense on some characters because it really would boost every stat. Now it feels like they throw on AP ratios for fun without any chance of them being used. Why does the AA buff on Qiyanas W have an AP scaling when nothing else in her kit does? Is it some kind of meme that hextech gunblade could be useful on more than 3 characters?
Very well put together video, great job. I remember all this! I got into league at the end of S1 through my friends, good times!
Loving these documentaries, keep it up
It's important to note when valuing an ap ratio, you can't simply look at the ratio itself and say it's "good" or "bad"; that's a pretty vacuous statement. You always need to take the base damage into account. This doesn't invalidate the point of this video by any means btw, just something to consider.
A good rule of thumb to follow when determining if a ratio is "good"; take the base damage of the ability at its max rank, and divide it by its ratio. This will give you the amount of ap required to double the base damage of the spell. If the sum is around 300 or lower, thats a great ratio (or, inversely, a bad base damage). If the sum is around 400 its a decent ratio (or decent base), and if its about 500 or more, its a bad ratio (or a good base).
This doesn't help when comparing champions to one another, this is for determining if pen is better than raw ap, since penetration is percentage damage increase compared to ap being flat damage increase. That's why comparing alistar's ratios alone to modern mages doesnt make as much sense; you should be including the base damage in that assumption (as well as other things like inflation/deflation of gold in league and changes to ap item costs over leagues history.)
Also worth noting is he didn't compare them to regular mage abilities.
Most regular mage abilities have scalings above 60% and around 60 to 300 base damage.
Yo great comment for real. I never thought of ratios that deeply but you are absolutely right.
At the same time, while what you’re saying is very true, I think gbay is just trying to convey a point on a more metaphorical level, in the sense: “oh by the way here’s the ratios”. He doesn’t care for the numbers per say, but just the tone and “vibe” of the story he is telling (IMO)
What he's trying to say is that back then, champs that weren't designed to build AP often had absurd ap ratios, which made it possible for things like AP Ali, Trist, Sion, etc. Also, what you're saying really isn't relevant because you have a limited amount of AP you can buy, so ratios are indeed much more important than base damages.
@@tommasogiancaterino8188 yeah i'm aware, i addressed that in the comment. The video is in no way invalidated by this, it was more for the comment readers than for gbay
@@snoo1296 im aware of that, ive played since s1.
Also, you're only half right, which is why you think what im saying is "irrelevant". There's also a limited amount of penetration that you can buy. A champion's ideal build path is determined by their relationship between their ratios and their base damages. Thats why it's acceptable for some champions to rush big ap items like dcap and spellbinder and unacceptable for others, who need to prioritize percentage damage increase in the form of oblivion orb, haunting guise, and void staff.
It's pretty hard to argue with math, my friend. It's just numbers.
Your channel really is the definition of Quality over Quantity
You are really good at making league seem nostalgic/emotional..I haven't played in probably 2 3 years..and even then regularly more like 4 or 5. But it will always have a special place in my heart
Love that video Gbay. I started to watch u during road to... series- and i loved it. Because of u i started to pay attention to my stats, and I improved, I even started to play Irelia alot, and master her- but then they reworked her... I was wondering if, or when You will make vidoe on Shushei- I never followed esport stage expect that tournament, and actually, the best player in the world, to be my countryman it was hudge, whole group of my friends watching matches together in dormitory, watching Shushei play his strange strategies, and win- was awesome. Thank You for bringing that back to me. I love Your documentaries, they might not be most popular league stuff on youtube, but the kind of atmosphere, and some live lessons You try to find in them, are awesome. Love that, keep Your work up buddy :)
Like everything in life, it was fun while it lasted.
"Mages today have 30%, 40%, or MAYBE 60% ap scaling ratio"
*laughs in Neeko ult*
ekko 150% on his ult ... annie 85% and 80% on q and w ....
Gotta admit shywana
We don't count ults It's "on their burst abilities".
Also: Annie is that old champion, like Alistar who never got nerfed, because she doesn't offer a thing but her dmg and stun. No tankiness, healing, dashes.
"It's okay if she wants to smash Nidalee. Everyone wants to smash Nidalee. But 130% AP Ratio on ult? This is not okay. Riot, what the fuck?" - Professor Tahm Kench
Maronicam and dmg reduction and stupid tibbers which sometimes trolls you
Well made video. Your research and editing. Much appreciated.
I'm loving these new videos. You are doing an awesome job.
0:54 Am I the only one amazed by Westrice?
I can't believe that dude went from old school, to play on good teams on early seasons, to nothing (including the infamous ember team with all the salary and stuff) to now being in the coaching staff of what some analyst say, NA memes aside, one of the best teams in the world: C9.
I was actually amazed when I started seeing him around this year, how long has he been in coaching?
He has been part of c9's coaching staff for years now. One of liquid's coaches was also a old school player with a very brief and bad career.
"just an odd character built in a wonky way"
thats why im here tho
Amazing as always!!! keep growing 500k subs this year
Thanks for the content lately Gbay. I started playing in 2011 and watching your vids reminds me of my favorite times in the game.
This makes me remember a lot of the weird builds I used to run. Anyone remember AP Assassin Tristana in the mid lane? Where you can just throw your E on someone and take 1/3 of their health away. Good times.
I used to do ad zilean, bcoz he had good range on his aa, and I could use move speed to keep out of distant.
old swain was my best friend .. miss him
I miss old taric top... That was fun.
I think we all have champions we miss. Reworks have claimed too many fun builds. But those memories will never be forgotten :)
I really like these types of videos. Keep it up!
Great video as always. Congratz Gbay
I miss off meta brews... they're fun and goofy and so fun when you could pull them off, mine was JG Ahri, alas the jg was made so tough, it couldn't be done...
on the brewer's note I'm curious what Shushei is up too, like if he found something to brew ideas around.
Shushei and the entire DragonBorns team were one of the very first to catch my eye in spring S3 when I started watching competitive. I'm sad I missed his heyday but I loved catching what little of his career I did catch; he was one of the most entertaining players I've ever watched, even when the midlane meta was quite boring at the time he managed to keep it spicy quite often. HosaN's insane Dravenous tendencies and Shushei being Shushei will never be forgotten. (And for a fun bit of trivia, YamatoCannon also played toplane for them for a bit lol)
Edit: And the chest bump of course, what a classic
Edit again: Here, have a highlight video from one of the DragonBorns games I remember best. czcams.com/video/51Eg3wDg1lY/video.html
Dude, soraka + nidalee vs evil geniuses was the game tho
Dear Gbay I started League right about the same time you started making videos and by coincidence I watched them from the art of league of legends to lol vs dota and a game of millimetres. From then I subscribed to you and have been a passing fan from time to time and when you disappeared from youtube that made me sad along with stonewall88 disappeared from the scene. I'm really glad you found the content you like making and we can see the quality and passion from these documentary videos. But most importantly glad your back buddy.
Man every video you make.. Gives me tears. I miss these days.
something i think it's worth commenting on towards that conclusion is how when you take a step back, you realize that many, _many_ of the meta builds and strats that have seen competitively play, including ones that had their time as _meta defining,_ were actually things that could be considered "off-meta" when they were first starting to take root
sure, i'm referring to stuff that can be as simple as a champion's build shifting in a mostly lateral fashion, like a marksman going from crit or lethality or vice-versa, something as simple as "this ad champ started building a different type of ad items," but while i think stuff like that is worth keeping in mind, it's hardly the _only_ things i'm referring to. there's also the cases where an item thought to be trash turns out to be wayyyy overtuned, and then we end up in the ardent support meta and all the, uh, "highly mechanical" gameplay that brought, but, again, while that's definitely a case of something that started off-meta, this sort of thing is more frequent than it might feel unless you go out of your way to intentionally think about it
like, stick to the ardent meta for a bit. sure, for as much as that previously not-remotely-meta item suddenly _defined_ the meta, it was still a support item being utilized by supports. not exactly the spiciest form of off-meta. but with it came innovation in every other position - the most mild being stuff like cho and jarvan popping back up due to being more effective late than the previously common picks at the time, but there was also the far more wild _jungle ezreal_ that showed up to double up on the champs that could take full advantage of an ardent support. and, of course, there was the advent of the bot carry grabbing relic shield, solely because it made it that much faster and safer to get the support to ardent
and that's just one meta. there's loads of well known cases of this sort of thing, like the era of full-tank assassins, the use of funneling strategies, and the on-and-off periods of mages being a common pick as a botlane carry, one of which we're experiencing at this very moment. sure, those end up _being_ the meta, but that is perhaps the real difference between off-meta builds then and off-meta builds now - they get a _lot_ more respect from people nowadays ( at least, aside from the occasional yolo queue superstar that uses every reason they can blame their team that they can find ), and subsequently, an off-meta innovation someone comes up with that looks like it has significant potential - and, really, a lot of things that _don't_ - gets tested out and experimented with by far more players, and in the end, is far more likely to end up _becoming_ meta if that potential is found
we're far from the days of ap trists and ap yis, yes, but only because those kinds of overlooked innovations are no longer the underdogs, at least not for long
My only problem with jungle Ez and some champions with similar off meta roles is that some players don't check if it still works. Leading them to not build the proper itemization and also tilting everyone else because the build is not op as it once used to be due to nerfs.
You used many words to not really say much.
"combos way more interesting than a simple headbutt pulverize..." shows Qiyana button mash a player from existence from fog of war
remember season 1 Sion. Best champion ever 100% ap Ratio Q stun fade away OHKO.
@@SinOfDisaster That had 45 bonus ad damage and 100% attack speed 100% lifesteal ult. Damn i remember how much of an abomination that character was. Even if he built full ap, he still wont lose a 1v1 auto attack fest.
@@SinOfDisaster AP Nunu was also really awful to play against. Back then champs had a lot less mobility, so you blow flash and suddenly you get a blood boiled Nunu running at you with a e + r combo to 100-0 you.
Man your videos hit in the feels so hard with these old tourny videos
Thanks for this video, it brings back good memories of old league when it was about fun and finding cool stuff to mess with.
Thanks also for giving recognition to a pioneer that is not known but deserves to.
"He was born too early"
Honestly? I think the fault isn't on him - the fault is on Riot Games.
We've always had and still have innovative players who create new metas. Hell, how do most people even think metas come to exist? It's the innovative people who test, practice, understand and put their plans to good use, and when that plan is really good it becomes the meta.
The meta is nothing but a bunch of copy cats trying to replicate what works best, and Riot Games in recent years has avidly tried to PUNISH players for being experimental with their builds; like that one time the Nunu Support player used Smite and was harassed as well as punished for it by Riot Games.
Over the last years, this creativity has completely died off. Items like Banner of Command, Ohmwrecker, Zz'Rot Portal, etc. were completely tarnished and later on even removed, all for the sake of removing diversity and ironing out the idea that everyone should build the same thing on the same lane with the same characters.
Innovation isn't encouraged by Riot Games, you can tell by the hundreds of changes they've made to characters that HAD the opportunity to create a new playstyle. Karma used to be able to shield minions, Soraka used to be able to heal Minions, Alistar pushed entire waves with Banner of Command and a fully upgraded E, etc.
What do we have these days? Nothing. Everyone scales flat on their intended AP or AD ratio and they only poke fun at off-meta players by giving them weird troll scalings on some of their abilities. Like... wow, Ashe's ult has AP scaling? That's a totally legit reason to just build AP Ashe, definitely.
Oh, Akali has pure AD scaling on her moves? Totally gonna pick up lethality Akali now, lol.
I wish Riot Games stopped being so stuck up about their beloved meta and accepted that this game's meta is created by the players, not backwards. They rework characters that hurt nobody instead of releasing new characters with the new moveset they intended for the reworked character. They REMOVE items before they consider releasing items that can counter them, turning the game state into a boring, unfunny Arms Race between both ADCs to see who builds IE first.
And worst of all, which pisses me off the most: They keep changing the jungle into things nobody in their right mind has ever asked for, like randomly spawning seeds that can enable downright unfair escapes or engages all while upscaling the difficulty of jungling to make sure that off-meta junglers can't exist.
So... yeah. The fault isn't on Shushei if you ask me. The fault is on Riot Games for dicking on innovative people like him with unnecessary balance patches.
EDIT: I'm actually glad people positively engage into- and against this comment without punches under the waistline. It's good to see that people are willing to discuss the state of the game rather than downright being rude about it.
Remember the Singed Support player, that I think actually got banned?
I need an option to like a comment twice
I think some changes like removing Banner & healing/shielding minions, etc needed to happen, and that sometimes changing stuff to change the meta is good. But overall I think you're right in saying that Riot changes a lot of things specifically to stop variance, Riot regularly patches things out just because it isn't what they intended, rather than it being problematic for game health.
Over the years you can tell that if Riot makes a new champion they don't even bother testing the champion with a variety of builds or in other roles. There was a long stretch where every single champion released would be OP in a role other than the one they were intended for, or be busted building AP when they were supposed to be a tank/support. Their QA was just embarrassing and in the end they just stopped giving AD champions AP ratios and other things that could lead to balance issues.
But it isn't just Riot at fault here, the majority of League players like things this way, they don't want to think about item builds, that's not why they play the game. Pro game casters often played into this in how they responded to itemisation choices by using a loss to say "see its bad" but in the event of a win "that wasn't why they won", unless it became the new norm then they just sweep their comment under the rug. And the league community absolutely embraced this mentality and was actively hostile to any kind of build experimentation in games.
People might think of the expression "Korean build" as proof that innovation is still valued, but the phrase had a hidden meaning: that experimentation should be left to the Koreans and that people better not be trying anything new in their games.
@@DisastrousIntentionally If you think supporter players can only support on bot, you should seriously stop playing.
@@DisastrousIntentionally I can't speak positively for AP Ashe because the last time I saw one we had the worst, most unfunny ARAM game in a month. The enemy Ashe bought AP items and their Zac went completely mental on everyone, starting to run it down mid claiming that Ashe is afk.
It's not their fault for going AP Ashe, but holy crap the moment someone tries to be innovative with the wrong guy on the team, they set themselves up to get harassed.
20:49
Totally disagree. Freedom of creativity > overloaded kits that gives the illusion of skill expression, but in reality do so much stuff that takes away decision making attached to risks.
We need more Singed, more inting Sion, more banner of command/zz'rot portal Heimerdinger, more AD Malzahar and less of Aphelios, Akali or Yasuo.
Wish we had more macro playstyles.
I honestly want my AP scaling on my Caitlyn traps. Remove this dumb headshot mechanic but leave the amount of traps I get the same and let me play AP cait mid.
Now I have to do so with jhin. And it's not very fun after the 51rst game where you have a good kda but everyone is still flaming you.
Disagree, too many people will just copy abuse those creative builds and if they're op they'll eventually get nerfed, it's not sustainable because league isn't a small game anymore.
Yep, I feel the same, this is probably why I don't like league as much as I used to, I like the fun attached to weird builds.
YES
Gbay please make more of this. I believe this content will be less taxing than forcing yourself to climb solo queue. I also enjoy your offmeta/legacy pick videos as well.
@gbay99 taking the time to make these documentaries is the quality content we'll keep coming back for.
I feel like pyke top lane at 2019 msi was something very innovative, as well as the caps vayne mid vs misfits, or talking about misfits the fervor leona against skt
nice to see that pro players played udyr back in the day :D
Awesome video. Just recently got into LoL. Good stuff man and thanks for introducing me to such an amazing song.
I love these vids so much I make sure i watch all the ads without skipping!
Nautilus mid : Worlds 2019
Soraka / Sona top : first split of season 10
AP mages as adcs : current
Pyke top, mid and jgl : split 1 of season 9 (?)
Karma tank top : season 9
Yeah, no offmeta picks/builds since season 1
Do you have a video about season2's roaming Alistar? I remember my mind being shattered at a flash over the wraiths wall gank in mid in combo with Lee, I think it was by m5.
I actually, at the start of this video, got flashbacks to playing roaming ali/eve in season 2 ranked. What a fun time to play league
Absolutely loved this, great work!
these videos are insane, much respect
13:14 Ooyy - Come 2gether
Hey thanks man. Seriously appreciate.
Watching videos like this sadden me as it reminds of those "old days" of league. S2 and S3 pro league were the best to watch and the most entertaining and lets not forget how BIG s2 world championship was back then. After it no world champs could capture that grand feeling again (s3 was close and that's it).
I think I am slowly becoming a League "boomer".
S2 worlds was the peak League of Legends.
You have made Shushei my favorite season one player. Good job on the content and quality of the video. Good job and keep it up.
I have really appreciated and enjoyed your new style of content. I hope you continue to write about the intricacies and true sport behind league of legends. Thank you for your content.
i remember when i started playing league, end of season 2, i picked volibear, did ad/lifesteal, and had a bunch of penta kills with him, now a days i do 1 item a lil too weird from the meta and im being flamed by everyone :/
Get four friends and u get a flex that u do what u want
3:53 *laughs in Ekko*
about time , finally the doc i've been waiting for
i love your videos. Just makes me enjoy the simple things in life
"Mechanical high skill cap" champions my ass. I'd rather take the quality of a well-designed and theorycrafted off-meta build standing the test against the best people on the best meta champions compared to overloaded bullshit that is gated by some looming headspace called "skill ceiling"
Often there is no skill ceiling to begin with. The game turned into twitchy reflex fps equivalent - no fun left.
can't forget the nerfs/buffs. Hmm this champion is too overloaded I know let's take away 5 atk perfectly nerfed now(Lee Sin). Oh this champion is too strong let's gut it to the point it is now a stun bot and nothing else(AD Malzahar) instead of taking away AD ratio they gutted him. Hmm ADC champions that solo split push at all times get destroyed by Assassins let's nerf all of their items into the ground while buffing ADC items perfect idea.
Frankly I think Riot company have 6 spinning dart boards in their office of Ideas. That they blindfold the director spin him around spin the boards around and have him throw at them. Only reason I can see half their shit being put into the game being even remotely reasonable.
true
@@SinOfDisaster I believe that things went really downwards after season 5. Mostly 'cuz too many people were idiots that never built arpen items to deal wioth tanks (I remember people telling me "Sion you are unkillable" when they had not a single armor penetration item - I could as well be playing karthus at that point, with 200+ armor what did they expect to do?)
I mean, that’s just not true, champions are created to be gated by how good you are at league fundamentals and learning the individual mechanics and intricacies of champions, if they made every champions kit function around bad players then the game would be a complete fucking shit show, off meta things work fine to a certain level, if you want to be competitive at any reasonable level in solo queue you adhere to what is strong. But there is always exceptions, one tricks hit challenger and GM, on champions that are not meta, don’t blame competitive game design on your inability to execute a champions strengths effectively
Anyone know the song/music at 13:14? I've heard it before but can't remember the name
Ooyy - Come 2gether
Great video man. Loved him as a player and loved westside as well.
Recently started playing league again after a 8 year break it's nice to see these moments are not forgotten, the champions may have been a bit more "basic" let's say back then. But the pros still pulled off crazy combos and tricks with millisecond response times.
It's a shame a lot of them are now forgotten probably working 9-5 like the rest of us but if it wasn't for them current pros wouldn't be sitting pretty with their multi million deals
Great work GBay. Keep it up!!
Stattik + Ice Bourne Alistar top?
Edit: dang it.
the build that killed Alistar's free aa after w. It was such a fun pick 😥
The removal of creative builds was one of the reasons i quit league
Maybe u r not so creative lol
Literally every month a new op off meta strat appears... Just look at kalista 5ND soraka top, they became meta for quite some time until riot had to nerf them becuz they were rly good on the right hands and people were complaining. Wanna see a off meta strat that is still in the game becuz it is not broken and it actually became meta nowadays? Just look at shyv builds, she used to be build tanky and dps but in this entire season people play her mostly bursty ap.
People are always innovating and trying new things and in cases like the shyv the off-meta picks actually become meta cuz everyone saw how good it worked and started to play them like that
João Nuno bruh they are not fuckingg creative they are just massive BS status bullshiteryy
@@joaoborges1764 The problem with this is that most of this isn't creative or innovative at all. Shyvana was basically completely reworked into an AP character, her E doesn't even function the same way anymore, and building AP has actually been THE META. It has been since last season even. It overshadows her older strategies to the point, where trying to do them would actually put her at one of the lowest win rates in game, because she is now balanced around a purely AP playstyle. Those other builds would actually be the off meta strats, not her magic damage builds. Prior to that she was attack speed oriented, and before that she was a feral flare jungler, and before that a top lane tank. She's a horrible example as an off meta strat, because she flat out isn't one.
Furthermore, Kalista, Soraka, and Sona top where just basically design exploits due to Riot overlooking unprecedented damage creep in the last season, and the massive nerfs most melee champions suffered over the years, and their problems with survivability when everyone can kill them with a single combo(take in mind tanks were also unplayable last season). As was pointed out in the video, itemization has been extremely casualized, to the point where dynamic decision making processes have been nearly removed from the game. Once upon a time characters like Udyr could go anywhere from full tank, to AD, AP, and more. This wasn't just a "He did that several seasons ago" deal either like Shyvana, NO champions like Uydr could pull off all those builds back to back, and swap mid match if they desired too. All of which offered different gameplay patterns, and they were all valid. They had to be approached differently, not only did the rules of engagement change for those builds, but what service they performed for their team did too. Currently even someone like Udyr despite being relatively unchanged, is forced into running the same keystones, and building the same way every single time. He does nothing new or unique ever. Characters are given rigged roles, and flexibility isn't allowed. When you see something like Kalista top, it's not only unintentional in a negative way, but lacking in creativity. The reason why, is because Kalista top doesn't do ANYTHING differently from a normal Kalista, she just abused melee laners, with the passive that repeatedly gets her nerfed since she was introduced. Her build paths were basically the exact same as well. She isn't suddenly a tank, because of some creative way of exploiting items or character weak points. She isn't randomly building AP, in order to diversify her portfolio as a damage dealer. She isn't some sort of utility character, that helps enable dives with her ult. No, shes just regular and perfectly normal Kalista!
Creating new and impactful playstyles for champions, and new innovative builds is largely a thing of the past, and is almost exclusively done now within fixed parameters typically on older champions. A better example of a modern off meta build, is things like Tristana mid, or Manamune Draven with exhaust.
@@spartantnt1023 Off meta doesn't just refer to builds but also to roles and playstyles. I would argue that most off meta creative builds come up precisely from overlooks so i dont think that saying kalista and raka top dont count (since they were design exploits from something riot overlooked) is a valid argument.
So was alistar, he clearly was not meant to be played top and that new strat came from riot overlooking how big his ap ratios were on the season 1 meta, where outplay potential was severely reduced due to a lack of mobility and skill expression through abilitys, which meant that big numbers on abilities meant way more than they would today (big numbers don't rly matter all that much if the skill they are attached is easily dodgable) and combined with not being squishy due to his ult made him a broken pick.
Since u don't seem to like off meta picks that don't change builds, than following up on how movement is way more important than numbers as of the later seasons, you can take a look at ad LB. She doesn't even have any ad scalings, yet her mobile kit allows her kiting build to shine in certain metas. It certainly is not meta, yet it keeps being played every season when the meta shifts allow for it.
Legit every meta there are quite a few changes that allow for new builds and strats to surface, you just need to be creative and not follow what everyone else tries. Also you said that shyv is purposely made to be played ap as of this moment, yet I remember quite well that everyone played her ad until someone found out she was good ap. She as an actual off meta pick at the time her ap build surged, it's just that rito actually liked her that way and changed things to help players play her that way, at the same time they balanced her to not be broken in either form. BTW one check on op gg and you will see that while her ap variant is way more played, bloodrazor, deaths dance, frozen mallet and witch end still have pretty good win rates so her dps build is definetly not dead.
As of this very moment a new tf build focused on omnistone and attack speed is raising in popularity and it was also created by a player who found a way to fuse the wave clear of the ap build with the squirmishing potential of the ad one.
Every day new metas are created, it's just that a lot of them don't even get to see the spotlight cuz the players aren't good enough to make the required playstyles shine.
Honestly u dont even need 200 IQ or anything to create new interesting builds, so long as u pay atention to the patch notes and think of creative ways to abuse the recent changes u will manage at least a half decent off meta pick. U can even predict the future broken off meta picks that will either get nerfed to the ground or become meta. I know for experience, since I was one of the first to play ekko tank top, kalista top (on this meta) and yuumi top (still hasnt happened but raka took her spot). I can also tell u that if u paid attention to the most recent patch note u would immediatly think of a few possibilities for new picks.
The one I m most focused on at the moment is a ranged duo with kalista capable of abusing her w passive every 10 seconds without being greatly punished. I actually believe that we might see a bot swap in pro play with a good 2 vs 1 pick on the bot lane just to survive, while kalista and her ranged counterpart absolutely destroy the enemy top laner. 14% max hp on a single short trade is actually disgusting, and the enemy team would be forced to loose a lot of tempo to reassign their lanes or have a useless top laner who won't even be able to properly get xp without risking dieing.
These docuseries you do on Season 1 make me yearn for the good ole days ;-;
Dude, love those little documentaries, thanks.
I honestly thought this was about doinb when I saw the video 😅
Yeah he states that off meta builds are dead meanwhile 2019 worlds has DoinB winning with mid Nautilus.
@@ameagher45 it seemed so broken riot instantly nerfed his ap ratios.
I miss the days of being able to actually go off meta picks, everything nowadays is just so cookie cutter
U can still go off-meta easily u just need to know well what are u doing, I play ashe and warwick top carrying games
true but in what elo are you playing in?
@@anomaly3055 Yeah but back then you could come up with a few different builds for characters, nowadays at best you can move on the offense-defense sliding scale. Back then everybody had an unexpected awkward ratio here and there. And now they even nerfed AP Tryndamere to the ground...
@@anomaly3055 anything clearly off-meta that is even remotely successful (to the point it can become meta given some time) gets nerfed into oblivion almost instantly, for various reasons (game health, going against intended experience). See: Garen/Yuumi, toplane Sona, funnel strat.
@@asmonull I don't know everything about lol, but I'm quite sure it's still very possible to play off-meta today even if it doesn't look like it did in the past
Another fantastic video Gbay!!! Honestly I had only ever heard the name Shushei, I didnt really know who he was. Its really cool to learn about these awesome players from the start of league. Keep on making these great videos!!!! :)
Great documentary as always.Consider shedding some light to players such as Chauster in the future.
"SeAsOn OnE wOrLdS dOeSn'T cOuNt"
It doesn’t...
@@junowee5154 tbh Koreans and Chinese weren't great at league at first.
20:58 I strongly disagree.
Glorying mechanical outplay and execution dumbs down the game A LOT and it takes strategical diversity away from it.
Riven syndrome.
Precisely, what players have accepted over recent years. Strategic depth has been abandoned in favor of mildly mechanical plays at best, which is always advantageous to overly mobile champions that offer more potential to do said plays, creating unfair, linear, and braindead gameplay. Where characters have predetermind use cases, and power at any given time in the game. Cookie cutter builds have been not only forged such as in the past, but have been mandated by Riot. With champion designs that offer less flexability, and have more basic functions. You will rarely ever encounter a champion and be left with the realization they're doing something completely different than expected. Gone are the days when you had to monitor someone like Sion, who could be building damn near anything. You won't walk into a Nunu, and being killed instantly by a heat seeking snowball thinking hes a tank, only to realize the mad lad built AP. Not knowing this as he had been playing the other parts of the map until that point.
@@spartantnt1023 Triforce, Steraks, Titanic
Every
Fucking
Game
On
Every
Fucking
Bruiser
The quality on these are always just obsurdly good. That being said, I miss seeing your gameplay too!
you're earned another sub with this amazing, detailed content :)