How Many Heads can a Hydra Grow? - Mythconceptions
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- čas přidán 1. 09. 2022
- Supoort me on Patreon: / jakedoubleyoo
Thanks to Jonathan Doberski and Khiliarkhos for help with my research.
Theoi page with classical citations on the Hydra:
www.theoi.com/Ther/DrakonHydr...
Useful websites for researching classical mythology:
Theoi: www.theoi.com/
Perseus Digital Library: www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/
"Library" by Pseudo-Apollodorus:
Free: www.theoi.com/Text/Apollodoru...
Amazon: www.amazon.com/Library-Mythol...
#GreekMythology
Definitely not my proudest moment. But at least it lead me to this awesome channel. Obviously there’s no beef at all. Honestly, I had a mix of emotions watching this because on the one hand, I felt guilty that I had sent you down this rabbit hole. But on the other hand, it was really funny.
I'm more than happy to go down rabbit holes, this channel is just my excuse to turn it into content 😂
Thanks again for your help in unraveling this mystery, man!
hi mythology man
The good ending
Lmao
IT'S DA MYTHOLOGY DUDE, hi! love your videos
I think it’s crazy how somehow in the Disney movie Hercules while it wasn’t perfectly accurate (duh bc it has to be appropriate for kids and squeeze into 2 hours lol) it was surprisingly full of ‘Easter Eggs’ and true things
And made up gods lol
I mean Disney just continued the proud tradition of Greek mythology fanfiction
Which is older than Greek mythology
Hades used to be a way scarier Poseidon for instance
@@mogscugg2639 but now he's just the only God who doesn't cheat on his wife
@@wasntwas our goth king
ITS HERACLES
If the Hydra grows a new head, does it have its own consciousness? If yes, wich one controlls the body?
Imagine Hydra not being able to move because every head is trying to do something different, making the heads fight and creating more heads in the process.
This is why people read comments
In some of the stories it has one immortal head so I would assume that that's the head that does all the thinking.
Isn't it mostly the one head that control it?
Fun facts : tentacles of octopuses think of their own (Well, the head does the main thinking and is vital, but the tentacles have nerves so they can move autonomously (at least partly) from the brain). So your idea is kind of possible.
I would say, if we go along with the version stated once in the video and in some comments that one head is immortal and all, than I guess she would do the main thinking. But for the other versions, it's a good question - and it would be a good way to take out the Hydra by making it fight with itself for eternity.
If any one of the Hydra's heads held the true consciousness of the beast or had full control of the body, I'd imagine it'd be the single immortal (possibly golden) head in the very middle of the rest (the one that Herakles had to bury under a boulder).
Jake Doubleyoo: I spent days of research to figure out what was more likely to be true.
Ancient myth tellers: I added some new stuff I made up, and the rest is remembered mostly okay from when I heard this story.
This is why I am okay with modern retellings just making stuff up. They're basically doing what happened in ancient times, the stories changed and they continue to change. It's basically a written oral tradition.
Of course if they overwrite an element I like I'll be upset.
(as long as you admit that your retelling has stuff you made up)
Watching a guy hyper fixate on something extremely trivial might have been even more enjoyable that your wonderful animations.
I like that at least you try to investigate and solve the misconceptions instead of just levaing them unresolved. Even though you are dedicated to entertainment, something I value from your channel is that I can learn something, it's enjoyable that you try to be historically accurate about the major important aspects of the myths
To add a similar myth, in Japanese mythology, the Yamato No Orochi is an eight-headed giant snake which can also regrow its head.
So why Yamata no Orochi died after Susanoo cut all their heads off?
@@jdmangrich He got all the heads drunk
@@MetalKing1417 So he need to be conscient to use that power. Interessant
That myth probably has the same origin. Many myths go a long way back in time.
@@jdmangrich Yeah, though with a caveat: each head has its own consciousness, and if even one of them is still awake then for all intents and purposes that head can still make the others do things. That's why Susanoo had to get them ALL blackout drunk and kill them in their sleep.
Okami actually recreates the myth nearly beat for beat (including the sword you get from it!) as part of its boss fight, if you're interested in it (down to the crossdressing as the sacrificial maiden that Susanoo does).
I'm honestly really happy that you made this video and others like it since it allows you to make brief edutainment videos getting the basic stuff down while these videos can explain some of the bigger misconceptions you and others have about mythology in detail using primary sources. Your videos really got me interested in Greek mythology
I found an inaccuracy. The text in the video says mythoconceptions while the title says mythconceptions. 50% chance this was done on purpose to increase comment interactivity
No, I'm just a dumbass.
@@JakeDoubleyoo fair
As always, well researched and great discussion Jake.
When I was young my dad told me that the reason why 2 heads would spring up after one was cut was because the creature was based on a natural feature like a geyser or a natural spring, where it would seem that of one ‘neck’ of water stopped flowing, others would pop up instead. Hydra comes from the old word for “water”, and Lerna/Lerni is a place that has many running streams, so this was interesting to me.
Supposedly, the area had historically experienced flooding and natural springs, so the idea that you try to stop the flow in one place and find that it’s now spilling in two different directions kind of tracks with the mythological monster. Of course, this isn’t an ‘a-ha!’ bit of evidence, just a neat observation how some of these monsters may originally have come from natural phenomena.
A-ha, A HA AHAAHAHAH ONE LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!
I've read that version in some ancient source, like third century CE, but I can't find it ^^'
There's also a guy named Palaephatus who wrote an entire book on why greek myths are stupid and how things really happened, for him, it's foolish to believe that Herakles fought against a monster with fifty heads, he was instead attacking a citadel named Hydra, belonging to a king named Lerne, who was defended by fifty archers, and each time ana rcher died, two others took his place. Because one guy against fifty archers is a lot less foolish than a guy against a monster with fifty heads :D
@@krankarvolund7771 The more fool I to believe one silly thing over another! Haha
That author actually sounds interesting (and unintentionally kind of hilarious for all his “nope, didn’t happen”), as it looks like he spoke to locals in different places to get their perspective. Locals aren’t always a reliable source, but it would be interesting to know what they believed in 4th century BCE regardless.
@@russergee49 Yeah, it's probably an interesting procedure, but opening with "it's foolish to believe that" is not a good PR move XD
"The classical sources are the authority" Do note that Ovid doesn't count because he's centuries later and Roman. He's as much an authority as the Kevin Sorbo show.
That's still technically Classical, but yes Ovid, being roman, doesn't really reflect Greek tradition in his works. I'll still cheat and use him sometimes for the interesting details he adds, like Medusa's backstory in my Perseus video.
@@JakeDoubleyoo sounds fair it's important to tell the truth but a little extea cheat Detail as long as it doesn't completely what is true is fair i think
But Ovid provides a lot about ROMAN mythology, not greek. Romans with time started to believe the same thing as the greek but they keep their roman gods names, or created other names to reflect gods that they dont have but existed in Greece and they also started to worship. And not only that, but Ovid and Virgilio are the biggests authorities on Roman Mythology, so is very valid. We say greek mythology for convenience, but mosts modern retelling of this myths is a mixture of greek and roman mythology.
@@sonofcronos7831 How if Ovid claims that "greek/roman religion was silly stories believed by silly people". If there's some other source about Medusa being a priestess of Athena or other trings like that it would be okay, but use a anti-theist as source for a mythology that he clearly did not believe at all is so dumb as using Netflix's Lucifer as a main source for christian/jewish religion/mythology
@@jdmangrich I would argue that someone who grinds their axe against authority through myths is more than just "mere" anti-theism, like he's got at least two different motivations for "FUCK GODS edition"ing the tales.
Source: Compare Ovid with Lucian of Samosata, who also didn't exactly like superstitions (just read what he has to say about Alexander the Oracle), but who wrote a spoof of the travelogues and pulled in various known contemporary myths as in-jokes for his retroactively-sci-fi story and actually nailed the format of what he was mocking, instead of just turning it into a soapbox like Ovid.
Ovid basically "fixed the myths with fanfics" and turned all the gods into jerk sues.
“Guy hyperfixates on something extremely trivial” is one of my favorite things about CZcams.
You and The Mythology Guy should definitely do a Collab, you two are the entire reason Im into mythology now.
Apparently, astrologists think there is a "time traveling goat-fish" (or "sea goat") in ancient Greek mythology. Overly Sarcastic Productions did a whole video based off Red trying to figure out where they got the idea. Turns out, the Greek zodiac was based off the Mesopotamian one, which also doesn't contain any goat-fishes, and some astrologist in the 70s started the rumor when she wrote an article about it. Great shocker here: astrologists don't really care about mythology and a lot of articles/blogs/etc. all just cite each other, if at all, and that is how the misunderstanding started.
Which video is that?
eta: nevermind it's just the zodiac one lol. She didn't actually find an astrologist in the 70s, she just joked that all the astrology websites were just sourcing each other so that's probably what happened.
My take-away from this video is that one and only one person is the authority on Greek mythology and it's Jake.
Correct, I am incapable of being wrong about Greek Mythology. If Homer disagrees with me, Homer is wrong.
@@JakeDoubleyoo Fun fact, at the end of the Iliad there's an endnote that reads "Source: Jake Doubleyoo" in Aeolic Greek.
is it bad that i can only focus on the cat that’s on the bed when ever it shows the face cam
The "Mythconceptions" part just cracks me up. Also, I love how you edit little comments about your cats in the background.
All of the versions of heracles i read had the hydra with 9 heads that regrew 2 heads when cut off
A guy hyper-fixating on something trivial? As a CGPGrey fan, that's my JAM!
tiffany
@@demonbye19 No
@@johannsanchocuevas7854 yes
@@demonbye19 no
@@Berserk_Aardvark yes
Cries because it hasn’t premiered. I love jakes videos sm, i’m glad he’s uploading more lately
I know right I’m pretty sure there’s like five people in the world to even care but luckily you and me we are one of those people
Aye same here
No idea where I heard this version, but for forever I thought that the hydra had 9 heads, but only the immortal one regrew after being cut off XD
That's actually cited in a few Greek mythology sources, he mentions it in the video that in some stories the hydra has 1 immortal head that regrow all the other ones, that's what the "Bury it's head under a rock" hydra story he mentioned stems from. So you're actually correct and that's a hydra retelling that exists
I really like this channel im binge watching everything now
Hey! Greek person here! We were taught mythology in elementary in history class. Our book said this:
“In Lake Lerni in the Peloponnese lived a terrible water snake, with a huge body and nine heads. From its mouth came fire that burned plants, animals and people. The inhabitants of the area were desperate and no one dared to approach the lake. Eurystheus ordered Heracles to kill this monster.
Hercules went to Lake Lerna with his nephew, Iolaus. He managed to get the Lernaean Hydra out of its nest and attacked it. With a sickle he began to cut off its heads. But as soon as he cut off one head, two grew in its place. He then called Iolaus, who lit a torch and as soon as Heracles cut off a head, Iolaus burned the wound, so it stopped growing new heads. But the middle head of the Lernaean Hydra was immortal.
That is why Hercules, after cutting it down, buried it deep in the ground and placed a huge stone on top of it. He also plunged his arrows into the poisonous body of the Hydra and they became deadly.”
This is the story I was taught, I hope this helps!
I second that 👍
Studying mythology in school sounds very interesting! As a Spaniard, I was only taught about Catholicism
Low-effort content idea that would still be a good video: book shelf tour.
Would take less time than most of your videos, but would still probably be interesting for us to watch. I know the algorithm wants you to release videos with a certain frequency, so I hope this idea gives you a little breathing room.
You could also do short reviews of individual mythology books; how good the art is, how good the stories are, whether the intended audience is kids or novices or scholars, etc.
A version of the Hydra I know, is that it starts with 5 (min of 3) always an odd number. So heads on the sides will grow 2 new ones if cut unless neck is burnt. Central head is immortal and will always grow back if cut and or burn. These versions are often depicted as a cuadruped reptile and not just a multi headed snake. In some versions instead of poisonous they breath fire (most likely a mix/confusion of information from necks being burnt)
I've always believe people think the hydra breath fire because the hydra is a "drakon/drakaina" and this is the origin of the word "dragon" dispite the fact that no dragon ever breath fire in greek mythology except MAYBE Typhon and the Chimera
Honestly would be nice if mythology guys and jake did a collab (also did read d'aulaire's book of Greek myths as a middle schooler and loved it).
I must've been early, cause I had it at like 7 or 8... Lol good book tho
I like how Jake took the "Hi, it's Me from the future" joke to a next level.
I wonder if the Hydra only had one head originally, or if Heracles was literaly the first guy to fight the creature, since the Hydra appears to have 9 heads since always so no one has tried to cut it?
well you see it's hard to cut off a giant monstrous snake-monster's head without supernatural abilities
If we take the immortal-head story as canon, then it must've had at least two to begin with. IIRC, the immortal head can't grow back.
Jake: or should I say “myth-conceptions?”
I fricken LOVE that!
Now, I want a PROPER collab with you and @TheMythologyGuy
One video called "Trickshot in Brawl ball" I think you, jake and TheMythologyGuy get the same type of video, I want the collab to.
still waiting for the sequel where the Hydra's last head comes for revenge
I love your work mate truly 10 out of 10 i’m really excited to learn how to misconceptions mostly made by the Hercules movie
Ahhhh it’s really annoying, as a complete Greek mythology nerd I went through the whole movie counting all the inaccuracies. There’s too many to count. WAY TOO MANY
I know right
Watch the video before commenting it makes you look dumb
Funnily enough, the mythology guy made a video all about the misconceptions (which were cited from this video) and aside from the hydra head thing, it's mostly accurate so it should be a fun watch!
Idc if I was wrong. I'm just glad my comment was referenced when I was proven wrong, first time one of my comments ever inspired someone to make a video and I'm honored
As a greek who grew up with these stories; the hydra starts with 9 and grows 2 for every one chopped.
I used to have Mythology book that talked about all Mythologies on Earth from Ancient Greece and Egypt to Mythologies mentioned all throughout Eastern Mythology, and it not only mentioned all of the factual trivia of those myths, but it also came with figurines of those myths, but sadly I lost those figures and book in my many many different moves, but the thing I remembered the most from that book is that Hercules killed the Hydra by throwing a giant rock on its body because of it keeping doubling its head infinite times whenever it was cut off, so I honestly don’t know where the myth of the Hydra where it can only regrow a single after its own head is cut off.
I didn't know that the Hydra grew two heads for every one cut off, I thought it just replaced the one it lost. So if nothing else this video helped me learn something, so thank you
The most common version that I am told unless if we're going into Madara Hydra style creature interpretations is that the Hydra has anywhere from 5 to 9 heads though most commonly I'm told nine and it has a single head that is responsible for the regeneration of all the other heads of the creature sometimes I'm told it's mortal and other times I'm told it's immortal regardless from when I was told the way it was killed was that the other regeneratable heads were removed then carterized then they took the final head toward off and went and buried under a bunch of rubble which leads me to believe that the head was possibly an immortal head considering it then just chop it off smash it and kill it
Keep in mind though I have not read the 12 labors of Hercules and I have not read anything about the Hydra the most I know about the Hydra is the hydroculture subclasses so basically I know pretty much any random bit of knowledge about any random Hydra except the original with all of my knowledge coming from other people
Watch the video before commenting
@@liamearl753 sorry had to retype the comment or a few typos
Basically what I was trying to say is that this comment I put out was a reaction to the other comments that were already put out
I noticed that other people were already talking about the subject so I was sort of dripping my own little bit of information into the pool of chat that was already here before the video was released
But now that the video has been released on CZcams I will probably watch it later whenever I have more time
So what you're saying is: the Hydra has heads.
As a big fan of Mythology Guy I am so happy that he has since presented his mistake as such, and that there isn't any beef or anything
I loved this video! I loved your cat in the video, the future-self, the mini-collaboration with That Mythology Guy, and the mythological info. Thank you for sharing!
You 2 and overly sarcastic productions are my three favourite mythology CZcams channels
Jake From the Future is some Grade A costume design. I love it. It totally caught me off guard.
Ptolemy cataloged the Hydra constellation in the 2nd Century, the constellation only has one head. It's possible over time the myth grew from 'Heracles killed a giant snake' to 'Hercules killed a giant snake, um, that had a lot of heads! And if you chopped one off it grew back!' to the modern 'it's like fighting a Hydra, cut one head, two grow back' in remarking on a difficult or seeingly unending task.
Love your humor and dork factor…. Liked and commented in hopes someone else gets recommended this and loves it too…. Good job!
I thought he was going to grab a DnD book when he went to his bookshelf
Love your attitude and this channel.
Great points made about checking the original sources, I mean we have them! Also really loved the part when your cat had the dramatic reaction as you revealed the children's book
Once you mentioned that Mythology Guy didn’t site his sources I’ve just been internally screaming “So ask him” so my blood pressure is very thankful he reached out.
My thoughts exactly.
i dont know who the people in that comment section were but as a greek and a mythology enthusiast myself i can assure you that in all books it is said that "hydra has nine heads and whenever one is cut,two grow back in its place" so you were correct from the start
I have to disagree that there are no ancient greek sources saying it only regrows one head. There are some sources that say it regrows to, but most don't specify. Some of those that don't specify also say it has 9 heads with the middle one being immortal, which means it only regrows one, because if it regrew two it a) wouldn't have nine any more and b) it would be impossible to tell which one is the immortal one.
The place he saw the mural in is probably the museum of ancient history in Olympia, in Peloponissos. (I'm greek)
I love that you can tell where the cuts in the video are from the cat's position on the bed. ❤
What is the best book to read about norse myths?
The Prose Edda and the Poetic Edda.
What a wholesome, informative and academically interesting video.
Whenever your videos come out I click immediately just bc of how I can tell the art style apart from others.
I kinda like how your first thought wasn't to just ask the other mythology youtuber what his source was.
Jake from the futures attire is honestly the best gag ive seen in some time xD
this seems like a good idea for a series as many people cant tell the difference between modern thoughts of a myth and the ancient version
I grew up in cyprus, where we talk greek
We are basically a greek island and i never have even heard someone say that the hydra has 9 heads and no more
I read a lot of mythology books even for classes and still
This must be because of the roman empire "affecting" our myths
Love his cat innocently trying to definitely not knock his stuff down.
You got 'em Jake, props to you.
Very impressed by this video
Alcaeus, Fragment 443 (from Schoiast on Hesiod's Theogony) (trans. Campbell, Vol. Greek Lyric II) (Greek lyric C6th B.C.) :
"The Hydra is called nine-headed by Alcaeus, fifty-headed by Simonides."
awsome cat 10/10
Thank you for this
Kitty in the background adds so much to the video 💖
I love the mythology guy that video is my favourite mythology video ever!
Hi i am from greece and i remember from my history classes that the hydra has 9 heads grows 2 and its "main head" is imortall so hercules buried it
Addressing a series of comments like this is super interesting. Sources can be contrary to each other, and is always good to be constructive critics. Plus, now there's a link between you and TheMythologyGuy for potential collaborative content
Completely unrelated, love your CFVY mug.
Im just happy that two of my favorite people know each other now
Thank you for the interesting rabbit hole and the cute cat content
finally a good 10 minute video
1:50
When both of my favourite mythology nerds appear in a video 😭
You guys are aware that there are literally several conflicting informations about how many heads there were and people were arguing over this even in 8th century BC?
Like. Some say it had 9 heads and one immortal, others say it was 50, other say it was 100 heads and even others say it was 9 heads but cutting one out made it regrow, while even other people say it were 9 heads and cutting one out made 2 more sprang out.
My point is. This is impossible question to properly answer, greek myth have several questions like that. For example, who really killed Orion, is Zagreus Dionysus or was he earlier god, or even who was father of Fates. Just fo ahead with the version you like the most but do not tell people that your version is correct while others are wrong becuase, frankly, they are all most likely wrong
Yeah ok, I was wrong, but I shouldn't feel guilt, I'm really happy my comment was acknowledged
Thank you
Hey, you should do a combination of every video you do I like listening to these While I’m doing stuff
I have a few compilations on this channel already!
Can't wait for this vid
This conclusion I feel could be applied to the Internet as a whole, plenty of people won't give source to their arguments and expect everyone to agree with them no questions asked.
You and the mitology Guy are very cool for admitting a mistake.
Great vídeo.
A random video I found and was intrigued yet will most likely never see again😊
hey awesome video as always, although I saw one tiny problem, when you touch your table the camera shakes slightly, people sensitive to motion might feel queezy :3
again, great video!
Myth Detective Jake. The Demi-gid hero we didn't know we needed.
I made an odyssey-themed campaign for Pathfinder using my favorite versions of myths pieced together into one coherent myth with some other details I added on (takes place about 2000 years after the myths' end). One of those was the Riordan-verse. So the ship's oracle was Madusa revived now a quasi-deity working as Hades' oracle on earth. For her, I used the version of the myth where the awakening of her gorgon heritage was a protective blessing from Athena but now that Athena grew older and watched her, she saw that she in fact cursed her and helped Perseus in his quest not only to save his mother from a forced union (something Medusa also went through), but also to end her priestess' suffering.
Not sure if it is accurate to the old myths but fit the narrative. Lots of the sometimes contradictory choices of the gods are explained away as young vs. older selves. The overall premise was the implementation of Gaia's prophecy to Zeus. Hephaestus made Pandora, the first woman, with Gaia's blessing to be a prototype but saw her as his daughter full of life and could not use her to further the plan. Instead of having her used as an incubation chamber for the seed Zeus swallowed with his first wife, he used the designs and built a new body for the seed to become the son reborn. The new creation was more machine than man lacking emotion and empathy. However, it was a better weapon than the previous plan and was still loyal to its mission and would never betray the gods that brought it into being. It was given a name (I lost the document with the name), and sent to guard Madusa on a new ship commissioned by the gods to dispose of a new threat to Olympus (ironic isn't it vibes) and learn how to be more human. After all, this was supposed to be the one to rule Olympus and keep order on the mortal realm. It would be best for it to learn what it is to be both god and man (I was not trying to make automaton Jesus but here we are).
🔥 name for the series
Nice mug!
Super video!
I found another book saying the hydra has only nine heads, eight mortal and one immortal but it also said and i quote “Heracles slays the hydra, while a crab, sent by the vengeful goddess Hera, nips at his heels. After burning away the hydra’s eight moral heads, Heracles buried its ninth immortal head under a huge rock in the swamp” I got this from a book called “the encyclopaedia of mythology”
"Hmm, someone on the internet is wrong. I could ask them why they said this thing OR I could read a lot of books!" You're a man after my own heart.
This was a very well informed video and lovingly crafted and I feel bad because I'm distracted by the kitty on the bed.
this dude is THE dude.
I love the way he talk, i love the way he arguments, i love the myth, i love the art
This dude. ITS THE DUDE OF DUDES
I totally agree, if you're going to pick a nit, have a source, no matter the topic of discussion. When I start to make an offhand reply on some forum and double check my claim, half the time I find that things aren't quite the way I remember them. Besides, documenting your claims advances the discussion and helps keep it from devolving into a food fight.
that greek myths book at 5:18 was at my school library. Since i'm graduating, I don't think i can see that book anymore. (unless i go back there since my new school is rlly close)
Starts with multiple heads, grows back more than chopped off. It's a symbol of how when you don't properly take care of a complex problem correctly, it will grow and overwhelm you.
The "Mythconceptions" joke is very funny. You can sleep well knowing that you are indeed funny Jake
i love the friendship between two nerds in the same fandom
Mythology drama is the only drama that I need
I'm 36, from the UK. I remember my primary school education (because I am special) when I was 7-9 and it was taught as a fixed number heads which replaced themselves.
I remember watching the Disney film and thinking the multiplication was a weird though positive change.
I imagine your book was a referenced source.
"so what the gosh flipping heck mytholigy guy"
-Jake Doubleyoo 2022
Whenever I hear someone call the description a Doobly-Doo, I get so so so happy.
I've heard they have 7 heads and all heads which regenerate 2 heads where they lose one except the "main" head which just is how you'd kill it, whispers in the wind these days since it's just stuff I've heard over the years, I imagine these mythconceptions are entirely due to word of mouth which is still pretty alright given they seem to usually retain enough similarities.
Either way I'm glad you went down this rabbit hole, it was cool to see just a fraction of the depths as it were.
Word of the year guys, Mythconseption
I like the classic 7,9,12,Infinite headed hydra that grows back as many heads as it wants and may or may not be killable. That one.
My man you are going to make a tropical storm with that arm rotation