Change Your Mountain Bike's Geometry For ÂŁ100/$100/âŹ100 | 3 Bikes in 1
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 30. 05. 2020
- We know how to change the weight of our bike, how to add a beefier setup or indeed lighten it up. We know we can change pretty much any component on our MTBs for their different purpose - but how much can we change the geometry itself?
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Finally. Something new....
Great to see a totally new, and technical subject, but fully and clearly explained...great to see these type of properly tech vids...maybe for proper experienced fettlers only, but a refreshing change from the more mainstream simplified stuff. đđđ
Much appreciated! We've had plenty of time to fettle!
Henryâs videos are definitely the most interesting đđŒ
Love this. Was trying to decide what my next bike should be, now I definitely know it's a trail bike all day. Thanks
Shows that modern mid travel trail bike is "only bike you need"
Yup, My bike is a 140/150 travel trail bike, does everything from long not very technical XC trails (yay for it being all day comfortable), to steep, technical black rated downhills (could definitely handle double black, but my skill level can't haha). Also gets airborne easily and is a hoot on a jump line.
Doesn't stop us from always wanted more bikes though! đ
Henry, lived the vid. The content you're producing under the current conditions is intelligent, informative, entertaining and well presented. Keep it up. âïž
Awesome! Thank you!
Great set up programmeâšthanks to show the đČride optionsđ
Moral of the story is, just ride your bike as it is.
Cuz I ride a hardtail
@@user-et4kw5fv8w a top end hardtail can cost as much as a full suspension bike
Bloody good video, a good faff about with geo, worth changing? Nah! Let's post it anyway! Probably better that the DH mods didn't work so well, made for a much more interesting outcome. I'll bet the XC version is a serious climbing machine though, good work!
Great video. Explains a lot of principles about bike geometry with a brilliant example!
Glad it was helpful!
Can you do a video on how to add/take out shock stroke reducers in a super deluxe and maybe a dpx2?
Superb!
Maybe you guys should do video about changes in geometry for hardtail according to fork length :-)
Dont need to its explained here
GREAT VIDEO Henry!!!!
Youâre awesome, Henry!
Great video, really interesting exploring the effects of geometry changes.
Great Video Henry! đ
great video henry
Good job Henry. You have a fancy DIGITAL angle indicator!
Dauym Henry, this is a really comprehensive video! Thank you! Iâve been curious about installing an angleset on my SS XC hardtail race bike for a while, as the headtube geometry is about 70° and I would love for it to be a degree or two more slack. Time to start experimenting!
bikegeo.muha.cc
This website is pretty useful and I used it to decide my angle headset
Good to see that bloody picture on the back wall straight đđ
That's a Hella useful video
Thakns for such a clear explanation !!! 5*
I highly recommend the angle spacer by reverse components.
Great content! And funny camera angles too! ;-)
Glad you enjoyed it!
I think theres a general misunderstanding of wha sag is. Sag is only a spring starting point. The you will have to add or sustract pressure according to weight and use.
perfect!!!
Considered doing the same thing to my fuel ex. I will clear a 55mm stroke (vs 52.5) as I have checked already without air in the shock.
Great video, please keep these up!!
Funny as I am thinking of reducing my Slash's fork to 150mm for more pedal friendly fun. It pedals quite well but hey fun to experiment with. Tyres also make a huge difference and a 32 tooth Oval chain ring to replace the 32 stock round.
Doesn't take much to change things for different purpose and for me, I know I have a great point it down and go hooligan style bike when I need it.
Going to a 55mm shock is also a common mod to the Giant Trance, it takes the rear travel from 140 to 148, and then you can take the fork up to 160 travel which also makes the bike a tad more slack. I've been looking into this for my own Trance as my stock shock didn't come with a lockout, so I want a new shock with a lockout, but my bike came with the RockShox 35 Gold fork, which uses travel spacers, so I can simply remove the travel spacer to go from the stock 150mm travel to 160 travel.
Excellent you made these video to make the bike more versatile
Glad it was helpful!
Pretty well done!!
But unexpectedly deep stuff for gmbn.
Noice hairstyle Henry! đđ€
Our dude Henry is a frickn' MTB Doctor... #versatiliar ha!
Nice one
I love messing around with my bikes geometry n travel. Nothing wrong with the bike the way it comes but its good to experiment n find the perfect setup. Also goid to know the numbers i like for the next time I get a bike.
Definitely! đ§
how the part to reduce the shock travel is called because I can't find it in the web? And is it possible to do the same (reducing effective travel without reducing stanchion length to keep same geo) with a fork?
thanks
Would you do anything else to your suspension in order to make it more efficient for XC, like adding more volume spacers for trying to achieve more mid-stroke support while retaining small bump compliance (vs just adding more compression which would also take small bump compliance away)?
Many bikes don't have pressfit compatible head tube, so you can't use angle headset, for example Trek, Santa Cruz are some of the brands that come to mind.
I think my Geometron G1 is great how it is, 62 deg head angle, low BB, steep seat tube angle. I am glad I went for it. I haven't experimented with mullet setup or different mutator setups.
Great video, always wanted to play around with the standard bike geometry! I just bought a works components headset for my YT Capra and I am still trying to figure out how to properly mount it, can you guys post a video of how you did it? Thanks a lot and keep posting nice tech videos đ
alessandro porro Not sure if this is of any use to you? czcams.com/video/IRk5AKMEhUs/video.html
Great vid. I am running a 2015 160/130 dual pos pike on my 2019 Nukeproof Scout.. Is the 130mm travel setting just for climbing or can I use this to ride hard on dirt jumps, , on a pump track or dh flow trail to make it more playful
Then open up to 160 for the gnarly and steep stuff.
I was gonna try my Helm coil fork off my 2015 Nukeproof Mega and adjust the coil travel but prefer my pike on the scout due to being lighter and on the go adjustability. Also prefer to leave the helm on the Mega.
Cheers đđ»
@gmbn tech Henry show us how you remove the shock spacer en bleed the IFP please !
So, as long as I have enough clearance in the frame, can I play with it backwards, say adding a slightly eye to eye shock and increasing fork travel to equalize the BB and angles?
13:30 - since it's not raising the front it would actually steepen the seat angle, as it's effectively lowering the front.
I love you guys
nice job henry
very interesting. thanks
p.s. (liked the egg on face moment admission)
Thanks!
Doddy and Henry ! Newbie question here ! I've got 9mm qr droupout frame are they up to the task ?
Henry is the Stephen Hawking of the suspension set up world đ....very good explanation!
*Very good at least I like it*
So are you saying there is a travel spacer in the shock from stock and if i take it out it will give me more travel
#AskGMBNTech
My 2016 Scott Genius 740 was built with a 67.9deg lo/68.4deg hi head tube angle as stock. Not so modern or progressive these days. I've just learned about angled head sets but have some questions/concerns:
1. Is there a limit of how much slacker I can go?
2. Will slacking the standard head angle adversely effect my bike's build integrity?
3. How do I know which angled headset will fit my bike?
@gmbn tech Regarding the opinion at 13:25 anglesets do change seat tube angle. Front of the bike goes lower, the BB as well and the seat tube angle follows them by increasing the angle the seat post is positioned against the ground.
All of which are good things
Maybe sometime in the future you could make a video how to increase shock stroke
#Askgmbntech
I have an old Cannondale Trail SL 1 2013 lying around, that I want to set up as an extra bike for my vacation house in the woods.
It came with a 80mm fork and a 71degree headtube angle. To get it up to speed, could I just put on a 110 / 120 mm fork, or would that be too much for the geometry to handle? Would a angled headset be a better option? I normally ride an On One Scandal with 65 degree headtube.
I ride 2008 merida 150 800-D with domain u-turn. The u-turn gives geo change more than you ever need. 150mm to 115mm (or so) travel.
Check out the Rurok Kanlaon and the Rurok Halcon!
I just bought a Whyte 29c XC bike. My last bike was enduro so will be a slight change of style.
I was wondering if anyone has put an angled headset to slacken the head angle by 2 degs and upgraded the forks from 100mm to 130mm on an XC bike? That would take the head angle from 69.3° to less than 67.3° which would be better for downhill. Will the xc frame hack it?
Maybe this is not required once I actually ride it but I am just thinking of options if I am not comfortable with how it handles downhill (nothing major).
How about an angled set on a 27.5 hard tail, and then replacing the front wheel with a 29"?
So can i use Rockshox super deluxe coil shock 210x55 and 150mm travel fork?
All very interesting but you should have edited the video to show us the actual angle achieved for each change using your fancy digital inclinometer.
You could shorten the reach by changing to a bar with more rise and back sweep. This will bring your weight back. Also could go with a 27.5 rear wheel.
more travel = higher BB and slacker
dont increase travel more than 30mm though
And remember that stroke lenght does NOT equal stanchion lenght from the seal to the crown, it will bottom out 2mm before or whereabouts
Lower end forks will usally have 10 - 20mm extra stanchion
And why so little sag in the front compared to rear? I used to have 20% sag on my old 130mm fork, and 10% sag on my coil rear shock (stroke is like 47 mm its a very short 165mm eyetoeye shock)
I keep softer suspension in the front to reduce arm pump
#AskGMBNTech
I normally just ride around my local parklands, with a few jumps and drops. It's the perfect terrain for a Canyon Spectral. But occasionally (one every 2-3 months) I take a day trip to the You Yangs where there's some really gnarly rock features, DH tracks and jumps. I love riding hard there. Because of that is it worth going for a Torque instead? I don't really mind too much about pedal efficiency, as long as it can get to the top.
The main thing I'm concerned about with the Spectral is that the Pike won't fare well in the You Yangs, and that the Code brakes would also come in handy.
Instead of buying a smaller air spring to reduce the travel of the fork, you can put the maximum amount of volume spacers in, and decrease air pressure, giving pretty much the same fork feel.
#askgmbntech does that angle headset affect your bottom bracket height when you slackin the front end out?
where can u buy a angle headset for 60 bucks?
whats the deal with modern handlebar , where the rise
If i were to dh enhance my bike, i wouldn't increase rear travel, because as you found out, it steepens the head angle and rises bb height (unless the rear wheel doesn't touch, in wich case it's great đ). So I'd rather try to decrease bb height, as it usually slackens the bike, and I'd add air/compression to the suspension. Faster descending speeds demand stiffer/more supportive suspension, not more travel. My opinion.
Anglesets are indeed the best way to achieve the previously mentioned things.
the pike can be increased to 160mm. use the 275 shaft. RS dont sell a +140 fork because that is the job of the lyrik. check out the trailhead app. also i have successfully done it to a commencal meta tr with longer stroke shock. 160/143 and 65.5 deg headangle.
#askgmbntech Hi there I'm shopping for a new sets of wheels for an enduro bike because of budget I will stay with alloys the queston would be that some wheel-sets have different rim width, spoke count which plays with the concept of compliance and stiffness on F/R. should I stick with same wheels on F/R or should I try for example a Front EX511 32 hole 30/35 / Rear EX471 28 hole 25/30mm ( based on CB E11 concept ) also this could be a new video project for you guys to try out :) thx Best regards
I ordered a works headset 6 weeks ago, I think itâs lost in the mail from quarantines.
After 10 rides with an angleset, my fork had cracking and clicking sound.. umfortunately seems the steerer tube got damaged..
Try greasing the headset...cups, race, and bearing exteriors. Usually cause of from end creaking
@@rupedog yea did the whole 9 yards mate. Regreased 4 times.. took bike to lbs, reinstalled old headset, reinstalled the angleset.. still cracking and creaking. Then the lbs guy put another fork in and... well... no more cracking and clicking sound. I really liked the effects of the anglset and it worked well with my bike (made it 64.3%) and fork offset but alas....got a new fork, decided not to risk it so got a 10mm longer fork and removed the angleset. Maybe i was unlucky and got a bad batch but not.going to risk it as forks cost a pretty penny. Pity ..
@@stevent1565 well it was the fork, not the headset. Now you got a longer fork that stays at the same angle so same pressure on the csu. What good? I advice you to reinstall the angleset and maybe lower the fork to what the bike came with (only if you want). I have a mate who has an angleset for 4 years on his bike, and his fork (a 2007 marzocchi Z1) is still going strong, so your problem was a weak steerer, not an angleset.
The longer fork rises bb and slackens seat tube angle, wich is not good. On the other hand, angleset slackens just head angle, but lowers the bb and steepens the seat tube angle, so everything is improved
@@Tzestos what you mentioned is true to a degree but depends on multiple factors. 1st the increase of travel: most bike makers(including mine) allow for 10mm increase of travel within a safe margin to keep the warranty(meaning its safe for the head tube and frame). 2nd it depends on the bike geo if it has a positive or negative effect especially the crown to axle measurement(i wld say the most important for a fork for your bike). In my case the crown to axle measurement increased by 7mm which works well for my bike. And 3rd , my bike is quite low and with the 170mm fork (original was 160mm) my bb height increased to 336mm from 334mm which is considered pretty low even by today's standard and has no negative effect in handing and center of gravity. My seat tube angle of course slackened by a minimal amount but i m off my seat most of the time so its not a big deal. All in all it works very well with my bike. In short, it all depends on your bike if it works well or not so of anyone is making any changes in anything, they must 1st do a bit of research and check with their bike maker; to which both i did.
As for the damaged fork; it is what it is. Who knows if it was just bad luck ie if my fork steerer tube just happened to fail or if it was the angleset (perhaps my particular angleset was defective). All i can say is this, my fork was fine after almost a year of hard riding. The cracking sound started after about 10 rides or less. When i took fork of the bike, there was significant friction damage wear marks on the crown where the crown race sits around(not there before i installed the angleset). Quite bad friction marks. I sent the photos of the damage to the anglset maker and they advised me to stop riding the bike and sent replacement parts just to be safe (they were very cool and helpful so i m not going to mention the make of the angleset. Beside, it just cld be i was unlucky to get a defective one so it wont be fair to them to say they have a bad product).
I just bought a sweet Ohlins RXF36 EVO fork. So i m not prepared to risk using an angleset for my new fork anytime soon.
With my old (1997) Rockhoppers 70 degree head and 72 degree seat tube angles, I don't think I'd be able to "Marty McFly " my geometry to anything like modern, but it makes a great climber! (I did give it a 1x11 upgrade though!)
You can get the 70 degree rockhopper down to 69 or 68.5 that is a really good angle for XC
#ASKGMBNTECH Thanks for all the videos.. really enjoy the show guys....given the pandemic I found my self having to become a courier to survive. I have a cannondale trail 5 stock hard tail. I'm 6'2 200lb. What would be the must upgrades to be done so that I can tackle the concrete jungle of Barcelona and the cheeky Sunday get away to the mountain until I can by a second bike??? Mainly focused on the work aspect. Thanks in advance stay safe and keep on riding.... Gustavo
Re-fitted an old MTB to be my city rig:
A set of *short knobbed lightweight tires* - like folding Conti RaceKing - 3bar for the city, lower to around 2bar for weekend's offroad riding.
>> If you're willing to change tires every weekend get a set with an urban profile - Kenda Kranium in my case.
I also switched up *gearing* with a smaller smallest cog on the (new) cassette *_or/and_* a larger biggest chainring in the front _(check specs of your mech/derailleur for fit!)_ for higher speeds in the city, whilst still keeping easy gearings for offroad uphills.
That's it - works like a charm!
After that it's all about reducing weight - lighter wheels and forks is what i would look into.
Could I put some sort of angleset on my meta am 29? Thinking about it and bringing angle down to around 64.5 but unsure if it'll mess with the rest of the geometry too much
It will depend on the size. It would be a good idea on the small and Med. Not a good idea on the L and XL. You will increase the front centre meaning you would need to get your weight forward more to weight the front wheel. This defeats the purpose of going slacker really. It all depends on your own personal measurements too. People are too concerned about head angle but it is the whole package and the fit that is important.
Why is Henry not listed on your website as a presenter...He should be!
I've been thinking about doing this to an Epic and I've already transformed into an AM.
Wow, I would joke that you convert an Epic to AM by trading it in on a Stumpy, but still, getting extra travel out of an XC bike is quite an accomplishment.
@gmbntech
Couldn't you theoretically decrease air pressure in the fork to shorten the travel and steepen the head angle and then add volume spaces to keep the progressiveness constant?
U will end up with too much sag, less travel effectively, and harsh ramp up...so not really...u u can, but should u...no
Great question I think. Rupert Wenn no downside here I can see of "too much sag" (b/c of adding spacers and), he WANTS less travel, and the volume spacer (just one maybe) would seem to have a similar effect as the same pressure in a shorter travel fork with the same sag %....the volume spacer is how you prevent the harsh bottom out as I understand it and just one wouldn't make it super harsh I wouldn't think. Curious for Henry's response to this. Unfortunately there are no volume spacer options for my budget fork.
Did i miss the bit where it was explained how to travel adjust the rear shock... with workshop spec tools and full strip and bleed of the shock to install travel spacers you cant seem to buy as the general public? Been keen to buy if anyone can point them out online anywhere.
He can change the the travel on this specific bike. I can do it on my Scott voltage ( 150mm slopestyle & 170mm freeride). It sounds like you're after shock tokens that firm up the compression & resist bottoming out. You can install these by removing air from the shock, unscrewing it & inserting it with circlip pliers.
In this video he is adjusting travel (stroke) on the rear shock. Using a mix of stock rockshox and custom made spacers. Unless you have a machine shop and can rebuild rear shocks itâs not something a home mechanic can do. Cool, but ultimately not plausible and so not especially helpful.
Surely works but is a lot of hassle. In my experience putting some cheaper downhill/Enduro 2.4" tires on a xc hardtail or trail bike already does a lot. Pump them up a bit less, adjust your suspension a bit and get aggressive pedals, a shorter stem and wider handlebars. A good bit cheaper and way easier than what he did. I'd even say it does a good bit more than what he did here. Still a good video for the more experienced folks
Best way to set sag is do your toughest ride and the suspension travel must leave a 10% of its total travel. The rest is just fooling yourself
Does the Angleset affect The reach at all, and would you have to offset this with a longer stem?
not 100% sure but logically if you're tilting the bars back in the head-tube it would have to reduce the reach by a little bit
It makes a tiny reach difference which I find is imperceptible.
My 1.5 degree angle set (44EC/44ZS) reduced my reach by about 5mm ... I did change to a 5mm longer stem (I wanted to change the stem anyway)
So how do you do this on a hardtail
Mullet đ€
Oh those radiators... i dont miss electric only heating
I wish I could stay focused and understand what the hell you're on about Henry. This is not a reflection on you or your explanation at all l, but for me you may as well be speaking Swahili. I sat down with all good intention to take this info and use it on my (cheap 'n' old) bikes. First minute or 2 in I was thinking "Yep, got that, right, I gotcha..." and then degree by spring-rate, compression by pre-load the wheels started to fall off and I drowned. I've been MTBing (badly), fixing, building and servicing my own and every other buggers bikes for over 30yrs but I just can't seem to get my head round all that. I can only liken it to being suspension dyslexic (my son has dyslexia amongst other SEN's before anyone gets all pc and precious). Does anyone else here feel the same or am I just an idiot. đ€ It's so frustrating as I'm pretty good at everything else.
I'm just trying to work out which 70s adult film they got the music from
The same one Lois Griffin was in
You could just vary wheel sizes front and rear
Is this the guy from pinkbike?
#Askgmbntech Hello gmbn tech how do you understand your fork needs a lower leg service
With an angle grinder and a welder.
Hi!
Love the bike design czcams.com/users/postUgkxHL1v1R3NE5x4KiYfyt8dnQmyNYz7qi5L and functionality. It is hard to align the front tired to center the disk brakes. The brake wheel touches the stationery side of the brake caliper and pad. I aired the tire up to 40 psi as the markings say 40-60psi. Left the house for a few hours and came back to an exploded innertube.All in all it seems to be a good bike. Have not ridden it yet though so that's the max of my knowledge. Update, put a new innertube made sure the tire was set properly and it did the same thing in under 20 minutes as second pic shows.
I feel like Headset spacers should have been explored here as one of the easiest ways to adjust the feel for ÂŁ0.00
They dont change the bikes geo. At all. Just riding position
Rupert Wenn it can be used to optimise your riding position for riding uphill/downhill. Which is the WHOLE POINT of adjusting geometry. Why go to all this effort and then ignore something as easy as changing a few spacers around?
#askGMBNTech Can you use pliers instead of dedicated spoke wrench?
Pliers will round your spoke nipples off in a few turns, leaving them useless and adjustable. Definitely a job for the dedicated spoke wrench
@@gmbntech and how can I clean the bottom of a steer tube from rust? P.S. love your vids đđđ
Where has Henry gone? This person has MUCH longer hair...
No issues with assembly for me czcams.com/users/postUgkxHL1v1R3NE5x4KiYfyt8dnQmyNYz7qi5L but I could see where some might benefit from using an experienced bike assembler/mechanic. I'm an older rider starting back after a 10 year break. This bike exceeds my capabilities and has been easy to get comfortable riding. I'm mostly on easy trails with almost no street riding and have not been disappointed with the performance of the bike. My fitness level is far below what I previously rode with and because of that the mileage is going on the bike slowly. While I'm losing weight slowly, the bike seems to tolerate my 220 pounds just fine. The bike has been used by several family members ranging from 5'5" - 5'9".
Christ only....you must be born again!!!!!
I've just swapped my front fork from an 80mm XC fork to a 140mm 27.5'' boost fork on my 26'' hardtail frame (still using 26'' wheel on the front). I also swapped the 100mm stem for a 35mm Nukeproof stem (and new handlebars) and it's completely changed the feel of the bike. I've yet to fine tune sag and saddle position but it feels much more capable for rough trails and downhills; it feels like a whole new bike.
I guess u didn't get the memo on only ever increasing fork travel by 10mm, (20mm absolute max) over the stock maximum the frame was designed for? That huge jump, on an xc frame, hitting rougher trails, is a recipe to rip ur head tube off. Unless the frame had a 130mm fork option from the manufacturer, u are taking one hell of a risk, as frame would not be designed for that kind of leverage.
@@rupedog I'm not sure if it was an XC or what when it was bought, but it is a aluminium hardtail mountain bike. The headtube is quite long, 140mm, since it is a 26''er and aluminium alloy will fatigue crack well below its yield point, so I will keep an eye on it. I will replace the frame in a year or so anyway.
I compared the new forks to the old ones and I estimated the new ones were maybe 20-30mm longer from the crown race to the axle at full extension (also much thicker stanchions and more robust). Given I should have 28mm sag on the new forks and my old forks were run quite firm, the difference should be less than that. Point taken though.
Pls pls do a giveaway after all this virus and if there is pls let me join p.s:love you're vids youre all a inspiration to me and my friends
There have been quite a few competitions of late....and u can subscribe /join...click the link on any vid.
Alternatively spend the ÂŁ100 on a weekend away riding which will make you way faster and once you have grown a pair of legs you won't be bothered about the minute edges you can gain from tinkering for ages.The amount you will spend on aftermarket bits is directly proportional to the level of insecurity you have about your riding. lmao
I miss Henry :(
Watch at least 1.5x speed.
Hes starting to look like jimmy Carr
, for me as normal rider is only full susp (trail) and hardtail , well DH is for rampage , but hey itâs for those 10 % of population , so makes much easier to live and donât get full had of marketing b##shit , just saw Nino rides trail with perfection on XC bike , so again HT & FS (trail basically anything with more then 100mm travel) all I need