Modernizing an Older Mountain Bike: Getting experiMENTAL on a Budget
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- čas přidán 15. 02. 2023
- Mountain biking has gotten extremely expensive, creating a huge barrier for entry for new riders. In today's video we take a look at ways to make a cheaper, older mountain bike more modern and safe and capable. We take a Specialized Rumor and make it slacker, give it a tuneup, and make it better for her to enjoy the sport. How to modernize an older bike.
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A full squish on hardtail party!? I'm offended and outraged! 🤣
Love the channel!
I can't recommend Steve's consulting service enough. I used it last summer and currently hay a custom built up Ragley Hardtail. I absolutely love it and it fits my riding style and terrain so well. Steve has such a wealth of knowledge on bikes and he is very good and describing how a bike will feel.
Thanks for the kind words, I'm glad you're loving your ragley.
I love that you did this. So often your reviewing high end frames, don’t get me wrong I love seeing the small builders/ high end frames in fact I tune in for all of them but this is real world stuff that most of us can relate to!!! Well done, keep up the great work!!!!
Wouldnt it be fun if steve does a coaching video on dusty betty's channel and then dusty betty does a HT review on HT party?😁🤞
Collab time😊😊😊
Steve did coach Betty on bunny hopping years ago before on her channel
I just converted my Schwinn Homegrown from 26" wheels to 650b wheels, 1x10 Shimano XT 10 speed groupset and it has improved the ride quality.
This will definitely be one to follow up on 🙂. Also, this is probably a great time to get a used bike, with lots of people who bought bikes in the last two years selling them, and I can heartily recommend Steve's consultation service!
This Minnesota rider feels called out. 🤣
Love a good budget modernization of a bike. I’ve done several through the years now using a lot of info I got from this channel.
Excellent video! The hardtail content is awesome, but you really should do more of this!
Great video Steve!!! Love this type of content, great explanation for the upgrade and what parts needed a tune up!!! Fun and enjoyable watching bike tinkering more please 👍👍!!
,
Content like this warms my heart
The Slack-R mod on your Yeti ARC from a year ago - and your overwhelmingly positive comments about it on the trail - cemented my purchase of one of these for my 2017 Trek Fuel EX 9 that I've also bumped up from 130 to a 140mm fork with an inexpensive air spring swap a few years back. I have literally just put it on tonight and wanted to get the bike more in line with modern geo numbers without having to throw another $5-6K for a new ride. It was a bit fussy to install (as you had mentioned in your companion vid) but I'm excited to see how it performs on the trail tomorrow up here in the Northeast. Thanks again as these vids are really helpful!
One more nice video from you. Good. This one is particularly intersting for me because I own an hardtail from around 2016. I have a lot of fun with it, and I built it from scratch. I do not really feel like changing to a new one. I am currently trying to make it more stable and playfull. It is nice and interesting to follow your channel.
I slackened my 2018 trail bike from 67 degrees to 65.5 ... Really love the difference.
Lot of good info there folks. Thanks for this Steve. I don't think she will notice the change in head angle, probably because there will be a lot of new small adjustments made.
Steve - loved seeing this, and it gave me permission to try it on my 2013 Tallboy. Found an angle headset by Works Components that took the bike from 70+ degree head angle to about 68 degrees. Absolutely love it! Easy enough to install, although I wish they would have included drifts to press it in a little better since it’s at an angle. Rides way more confidently and didn’t mess up the handling. Thanks for motivating me to try.
Glad to hear it! It's a great way to make older bikes ride a bit more modern
Dude this is so awesome. I always love seeing your opinions on older bikes. Speaking of being on a budget, whats your favorite "budget" dropper? I remember you saying that Tranzx makes PNWs droppers or something along those lines.
This is great video. My wife has a small 2017 Trek Xcaliber and I really want to try this on her bike. She's always afraid on descents. I guess I need to start measuring to figure out which one to buy. Thanx for the tip.
Nice video. My GF had a 2014 (I think) Rumor. It was a tad tall for her and the lack of dropper options resulted in her moving to a an XS 2019 Liv Pique 2 with a ton of upgrades.
Those grips may be a bit large for a person with smaller hands.
Seat width is important, that saddle probably comes in 3 widths. Make sure the saddle is the correct width for your sitbones.
A professional fitting is great for even experienced riders, but really important for newbs.
great vid, I have just done updates to my 1997 proflex 856. It now has a fox rlc 120mm fork, 1x 8 drivetrain, front cable disc break(avidbb5) 760mm x 50mm rise bar, 40mm stem. Can't do a dropper unfortunately due to interupted seat tube design, can't do rear disc either. Will try to get a slacker 1 degree headset soon.
"And I ride in Minnesota... 66 degree head angle!" I'd agree - my full sus trail bike is 67.7, and it tackles most if not all of the Minnesota trails with ease. Most of our stuff is rolling hills, and descents that are less than ~300 feet long. I can't imagine sitting in the ~64ish hta some bikes are coming with nowadays, at least in this terrain.
Haha yes! The right saddle can make such a difference for beginners. My wife loves her old WTB Speed She from back in the day. Incidentally we discovered that some of the new wider Speed V saddles are just like the old Speed She! Anyway, saddles are like shoes, what fits me may or may not fit you. I love the idea of the test saddles at bike shops. I just kept trying different saddles over the years until I found a couple I like, and now have a pile I do not.
Great vid!
I'm glad this headset finally came out. I have a specialized fatboy and have always wanted to slacken it out. A few years back i heard this was in the works. Are you going to post the reveal to the bike's owner, ride and impressions. Fan of your content as well as Dusty Betty👍
awesome, wish the local bike shops had stuff like this. I haven't even checked the geo on my 2010 era xc bike, it doesn't feel twitchy to me with my upgrades (10mm shorter and adjustable stem + 100mm wider bar with 25mm rise and a bit of backsweep on the highest/closest setting) but I've only ridden really cheap and old bikes
Great informative video Steve 👍. I have a Chameleon and I see your point of whether or not to slacken it out. I think at the speeds I ride and the terrain I ride in I don’t need to slacken it out. However I know when I make it to Sedona that would be a different story.
Just put a 2023 RS PIKE 150 Select and a 2023 RS Deluxe Ultimate on the rear of my 2013 Stumpy Elite 29er. It came stock w a 68 HT and 74.5 ST so it isn't that out of line w modern geos... but it is an alloy bike w 150/130 and it weighs 28 lbs. I did stay w the 51mm offset to keep the reach and head angle consistent with what it was... also why I didn't use a these slacker HT cups. The bike rips and is so poppy and nimble, and I live in OH so rarely above 20 mph on trail for extended time. Bought a $12 boost hub adapter, so I didn't have to lace a new front hub too. Bikes have been good for quite awhile. No need to turn over bikes every 3-5 years as long as the industry supports older bikes with parts.
Dude, I’m not even done the vid yet and I paused to write this comment. This is THE BEST mountain bike channel on CZcams! Hands down. Thanks for all the detail and knowledge you put into these vids.
Thank you for your kind words.
In my case a descender overtook me on a mountain bike race in November . I would take him on the climbs and he got me on the descents and beat me by a minute or 2 on a 21 mile socal high desert cat 2 race with 2400' of climbing . I think the slacker bikes and more technical descents have changed the xc game and a good climber doesn't guarantee success anymore over a good descender . Nice upgrades and tuneup .
I agree. If I race xc again, I wouldn't want anything steeper than 67*
@@hardtailparty You might be surprised how well you could do in a xc race today that is a bit more technical . Especially with your experience on hardtails .
The other factor is xc race tires . I prefer a more rugged tire especially up front with bigger side knobs to bite into those corners at speed . Getting flats is more common on these tech xc races so I run a heavier casing . Xc racing has changed allot and the fun factor has gone up .
68 degrees isn't exactly slack. But its better than 70! I remember putting a 100mm fork on a bike built for 70mm fork, the bike felt so much better. Just more relaxed at speed! Hopefully it work for her too!
Steve your amazing Sir
If the owner okays it, some riser bars definitely would be helpful -- especially after the loss of those spacers.
What is also possible, especially with that new headset, is a fork with a 10mm - 20mm travel increase.
Slackening the head angle will lower the bottom bracket slightly. So adding a fork with more travel will slacken it even more and raise the bottom bracket. Since the steerer on that fork seems barely long enough and can't rush spacers that might be the next best upgrade to this bike.
the bb doesn't lower with the slack-r. STA and bb stay the same.
@@hardtailparty Is that because of the cup on the bottom raising the front slightly? I know with a Wolf Tooth angle set it raises or lowers the BB depending on which direction you set it.
I slacked my bike from 67 to 65.5 and the bb dropped by about 2mm
@@ShadLife yes, it's because the cup is taller with the slack-r. It adds about 10mm to the bottom of the hesdtube. The cup keeps stack height, sta, and bb height the same. Regular anglesets with press in cups need a bit more travel to keep the rest of the geo the same. But the slack-r accounts for this with the thicker lower cup.
I love how you talked about how you hate integrated headsets and how easy it is to destroy a frame by compromising the frame there, then unnecessarily grind out the head tube when you could’ve just bought the correct size Slack-R. The whole reason 9point8 makes the Slack-R fit 3 different IS headset standards is to avoid this exact scenario.
You're definitely misunderstanding. I have every size slack-r piece there is and none of them fit. The center of the integrated headset "cups" were too narrow to fit the center piece of the slack-r in. All I did was open up the inner diameter of the frame cups. Like making the "hole" of a donut bigger without touching the rest of the donut. I explained this in the video, but perhaps you misunderstood. No single part of the slack-r would even fit through the center of the head tube due to the inner diameter being too small. My grinder didn't touch any of the beveled part of the integrated headset. You can still drop your stock bearings back in and run it 100% stock. I didn't touch the face of it.
I think the bb drop contributes to the twitchy/steady feeling. My jump bike has a 69° head angle but rides best at higher speeds. It's really twitchy at slow speeds 20kmp/h and slower.
A tall bb can make a bike feel slightly more twitchy, but I find a steep HTA to be an even bigger contributing factor.
Wow, cool- Please make a follow-up video on this.
Cheryl is a private person and wouldn't appreciate being on CZcams. She loved the changes and rode more confidently.
I'd like to see the full before and after geo numbers. How much slacker is the seat angle?
I also "modernized" my RM Instinct recently. Wolftooth 1° Geoshift headset, mullet rear wheel, and shorter cranks to make up for the new BB height. It helps having the Ride9 adjustment though. 🤘🏻
I took a bunch of measurements, but it turns out I forgot to hit record. The seat angle isn't affected by this mod, nor is the bb drop, since the axle to crown is the same.
I use the wolf tooth headset "geoshift".... love it.
It's a good Angleset, but it doesn't work on these specialized bikes with their special headset size.
You should see what I did to a ‘96 Mountain Cycle San Andreas! I wish you did more videos like this.
I always wanted one of those. They were in the back of every mtb mag and that was my most wanted bike. I guess it goes to show how powerful marketing is
@@hardtailparty Well, you’re just going to have to come out to So. Cal., spend some time riding it and do a video about it. I live right next to Sycamore Canyon, Santa Monica Mountain Range in Newbury Park and about 30 minutes from Rocky Peak in Simi Valley, where MTB Action Mag does a lot of testing. I did a restomod on the San Andreas. I put on wide Derby carbon rims on Hadley hubs, newer fork and shock, 1x11 drivetrain using a new XT derailleur, Garbaruk cage & pulleys with a Goatlink 11, Sunrace cassette, carbon post and bars and SLX brakes from my Trek EXe. And the frame is completely polished. Where can I email you some pictures?
I’d love to see a follow-up video …
Thought, you'd put a bone in for the shock, like Luke did to the Rancor.
Since you've mentioned brakes....
Could you make a video about comparing brakes?
I feel like everyone is talking about suspension and wheels (which is important) but in my opinion brakes are the most important part of bikes after the frame. I'd rather ride a bike with normal suspension and good brakes than a bike with some ultimate suspension and average brakes.
Hi, which grit of sandpaper do you use when sanding the disc rotors and pads. Thank you so much love the vids.
600
Can you do a tune up to my bike? It feels like it needs new wheels and electric shifting.
What would you recommend for a 2013 trance?
Meanwhile I swaped 90 mm fork to a 80 mm. Stock HTA is around 69.8, So this put me above 70. And it works fine. Lack of fitness is more problematic than a steep HTA...
I achieved this by building up my Ripley with a 140mm vs 120mm fork. It slackened the HT angle by 2.5 deg.
That's definitely one way to get a slacker head angle. Unfortunately it also raises the bb and slackens the Sta.
@@hardtailparty Life is full of compromises! For how and where I was riding at the time, I couldn’t have been happier with the results. ***Correction, 1.5 NOT 2.5 deg 😎
@@Eric.V. it's all good! I'm glad you like it.
@@hardtailparty Nowadays I primarily just ride my Rallon which is significantly slacker! 😎
Both rear shock offset bushings would slacken another 2 degrees
Very interesting project and video! I’m 17 years old and I very like mountain bikes and service mountain bike. I dream about Specialized Chisel 2019 or Epic Ht. Hello from Ukraine
Welcome my friend! Stay safe out there, your country is in our thoughts.
@@hardtailparty thank you
With a smaller rear wheel the angle is also slacker too, 27.5 plus tyre on the rear, done!
Unfortunately.this slackens the seat tube as well and lowers the bb
@@hardtailparty not sure that's worse than the state of that steerer tube engagement - I've been spannering bikes all my life and to say that's borderline is an understatement. not having a go at you , love the channel ( And you )! but i wouldn't be comfortable with that at all (note, might have been a bad camera angle) thank you for all the great hardtail reviews you do.
Hey Steve have you noticed that the tension in the m520 pedals are not the same in both sides, even with the same number of clicks? Thanks!
No, I haven't.
The Slack-r I installed on my Stache dropped right in. Thankfully, I didn't have to modify the frame. I just sold that frame with Slack-r last week! 1.6° change was instantly noticeable to me when I did it, was a huge updrade and worth every penny. I used Fiber Grip to install it and never had a creak. I'm curious if she notices the change of the head angle.
She doesnt know what a head angle is. Her biggest notices were better working brakes and shifter. But watching her ride, her technique, confidence, and speed were instantly noticeable.
I did the same to my 2020 Stache and it was instantly noticeable. That said, in the Cleveland Ohio area, there are only a few places where it made a difference!
@juan sanchez I'm also in Northeast Ohio, where do you ride?
East rim is by far my favorite but bedford is a blast too! There are more but those are the 2 closest to me!
Those are my two fav spots, too. I used to ride West Branch a ton years ago, but it's kinda far drive for me now. Have you hit up the new trail flow trail and pump track at OECR? I never headed out there last year, need to check it out when it dries out.
Hey, my girlfriend has S. Rumor to.. What exactly is the name of this head angle change part or where can I find it ? 🧐
I just picked up a Status 160 with a HTA of 63.7 in Minnesota lmao...
Can you re-use the original headset bearings? I have a 2014 Enduro with 67.5 degree angle. This would be a nice upgrade. Looks like they also have a 1.7 degree option.
Yes
I have my first kid on the way and pretty conflicted on putting our kiddo in public school. We want to put them in public school for the friends and activities (like mountain biking) and hoping the schools in the Sedona and cottonwood are not politicized as the things we see in the news we do not agree with on both sides of the political spectrum. I just want my kid to have the education I had. Glad to see Sedona has knowledgeable coaches like you.
Congrats on being a parent, it's by far the most rewarding thing I've ever done. The love of your child is unmatched.
It feels like everything is politicized these days. Fortunately out team doesn't require the student athlete to attend public school. Many of our student athletes are homeschooled.
@@hardtailparty what age do you guys start kids at?
@@sethmoniz915 6th grade
@@hardtailparty is this threw the Sedona public school or is this the Sedona mountain bike academy?
Does the 10mm at the bottom of the HT slack out the bike further or is that incorporated in the set degree change?
Its calculated into the angle change.
what grit sandpaper do you use to sand brakes and rotors?
I like 600
Love those sunglasses . what brand are ? Gratings from Florida
Julbo. They're great glasses.
I want to get my bike slacker. What would it take to get the propper coaching as I did not understand 9point specs for my bike
You can do it yourself by researching headset standards and measuring your bike, or you can take it to a local shop.
I could guide you on Patreon as well. Patreon.com/hardtailparty
Looks like you need 34.5mm and 44.5mm of internal diameter clearance otherwise you need to sand or grind. I'm going to go measure my frame!
The Specialized Status is on sale again. That bike is a steal at that price. Not the right bike for a lot of people but if it is. It is a very good deal.
Aside from the weight, the status is an amazing bike.
@@hardtailparty I bought a 160 for me and a 140 for my wife. The seat stay pivots are like 1/4 thicker then my Levo. The Status is definitely built like a tank.
@@machyne82 I'm tempted by a 140 even though I have a stumpy Evo
Nice video! What about a shorter stem now that the bike is slacker
?
The reach is so short in these older bikes that it would be cramped with a shorter stem.
@@hardtailparty true, good point. Thx for the video
Where can I get a new, decent 26" straight steerer fork? They don't make them any more!
I once replaced a 100mm stem with a 60mm stem on my girlfriends bike... She didn't notice.
I’m thinking the answer is no, but just double checking: are there any headsets that can slacken a 1&1/8 non tapered headset?
No, there isn't any spare room in the headtube for it to be angled.
Sure wish there was a way to slacken a 1 1/8 straight headtube frame! Would love to turn my y-33 into a "downcountry" abomination
run a longer fork
Swap fork to more travel ,,, will have greater axle-to-crown measure. Or swap to next size fork to create a mullet. I did both with a 2009 XC, and now have 65-66° HA. (But seat tube angle was slacked also;still worth it. )
wolftooth geo-shift
@@anotheryoutuber_ Yeah I've actually got a 100mm SID on it already (came stock with a 75mm lol). At sag it feels fine and rides a lot better on air although I do worry about the extra stress on the ht. Given this bike's tendency to break at the shock mount, I go pretty easy on it. To be honest if I could take 1.5 degs of the head angle I'd probably end up snapping it in half
@@robbiebarron6638 Looks like they make a straight steer tube version but in ec44, 1-1/8 straight ht with external bearings like on old school mtbs is is ec34. Maybe they discontinued it? I don't think its possible geometrically to make one for this standard with more than 1 degree or so, there's just not enough room inside the tube. Maybe with a short ht and some crazy machined external cups
Would creating a mullet also help slacken the fork angle?
yes, but it would also slacken the seat angle and make the bb lower, which wouldn't be ideal here.
I wish there was an option for slackening a straight 1 1/8" headtube...
me too, but there's not enough room inside the head tube for the angle to change.
I bet you could get some additional slack in the head tube angle with a 27.5 in the back. As long as the effect on seat tube angle isn't too slack for her.
Yes, or a longer fork. But then it starts doing weird things to bb, seat angle, reach, etc.
Are we gonna get a reaction video from her? That would be cool!
Unfortunately that would make her very uncomfortable. What she noticed most was how easy it was to shift and brake. Cockpit controls are the most obvious things people feel. But following her on the trail, she rode a lot more confidently and stayed in the center of the trail a lot better.
@@hardtailparty Totally understand. What makes your channel so good is your respect for everyone. Even when you review and critique something, it's done in a very respectful and reasonable way. Kudos to you!
What model year was the Laufey you used the angleset on?
Precious gen, not the current gen.
@@hardtailparty did you have to machine/grind the frame on that Laufey? Or did the Slack-R fit in?
Was she happy?
I would have put on a shorter stem as well.
You're not the first to suggest this. Just curious... why you'd go with a shorter stem? Shorter stems make a bike twitchier. Also, the reach is already super short on older bikes, and the slack-r ends up shortening the reach more.
Could you potentially use this headset to make a head angle steeper?
Yes
@@hardtailparty Excellent!
I wonder what her reactions were
I never thought to live to see the day when you'd touch an FS...oh the blasphemy!
It'd be a pretty sad day if I refused to help my friends with their bikes just because they're not a hardtail.
@@hardtailparty The harder of a time we give you for this, the more we love you. Think of it as your narcissistic following showing you appreciation :)
Do you have a PROMO CODE for the Slack-R even if it is not for a discount? I would like to get you the credit for selling me on it. I have a Specialized Crave SL (SS 29) that has a STEEP 71.5 head angle. It is my super light XC race bike and I am blisteringly fast uphill but that HTA really slows me down on the steep descents. My TB is a 65.5 and WOW is it a totally different ride.
Thanks for the kind gesture. No, I don't. Feel free to send them and email or a note on your order that you saw it here. Thanks.
Does this raise the bottom bracket height? And by how much?
No
Couldn’t you have just changed to a longer fork?
That would have messed up other geo measurements. Overforking doesn't just change the head angle
What! I watched the whole video and there’s no final outcome for closure? Did she like it? Did she notice the difference? What was the result? What garbage!😡
So...what did she think?
First ! 😁
I thought my graphics card was toast, around minute 20:00 there's some strange artifacts in the shot, maybe codec related @hardtailparty