Interview: Steve From Hardtail Party
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- čas přidán 7. 01. 2022
- Many people see hardtail mountain bikes as either lightweight machines for serious xc racers or cheap and disposable bikes for those new to the sport. In this video I explain why that's definitely not the case anymore as the hardtail platform has seen a rise in both capability and popularity.
Steve from the channel Hardtail Party also joins me to discuss why hardtail's have been looked down on and how that's changing with the latest generations of bikes. Be sure to subscribe to his channel for all of the hardtail related content you could ever want. He’s a great rider and definitely knows what he’s talking about, so thanks again to him for taking the time to chat with me.
NOTE: The video looks a little choppy during my call with Steve. I live in a rural area with internet that's far from great, so I couldn't do much about it. The audio worked great though.
hardtail party - / hardtailparty
#hardtail #mtb #hardtailparty - Sport
It was great to reconnect with you Casey. Thanks for taking the time to chat hardtails with me and have me as a guest on your channel. Keep up the great work.
Definitely great to reconnect and we for sure need to ride again sometime. Thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts!
@@RideYearRound definitely. We should do a bikepacking trip here in AZ to help you esoace the cold.
In Britain our attitude is a little different. Maintenance is more of an issue here [ due to our weather ], and durability and price. We keep bikes for a lot longer. They aren't regarded as disposable. That's factors in a lot of the more modern geo coming out of Britain.
I’m a mediocre bike mechanic and a cautious trail rider. A capable hardtail is simply the better bike for me in nearly every situation. Thanks for spreading the hardtail love!
that's exactly me also 🙂
RYR is one of the most under-rated cycling youtubers out there, and Steve is one of the best there is. Happy to see them together.
Indeed, RYR has some amazing content. We'll see if we can boost his numbers this year.
I love hardtails. If I moved somewhere with flow trails I would buy one for sure. I went through Hardtail Party’s bike consultation service and he actually steered me toward a full suspension. He is quite pragmatic and not just a Hardtail zealot. I missed mine when I rode the flat lands of Toronto on my full sus, but that only happens once a year.
It all depends on how and what you're riding so I'm glad he steered you toward something you enjoy. Steve's a smart guy, I would be surprised if he said a hardtail is the only bike for everyone haha.
2022 Santa Cruz Chameleon 100%. My go to bike on a weekly basis. Make Hardtails Great Again!
Last year at 53, I got back in to cycling, and mtb in specific. I feel like I am 9 again when I am in the dirt and mud. After riding a used Giant for about 4 months, I got a Diamondback ht. Other than swapping the pedals, and swapping out for a new stem and handlebars/grips, it's been perfect for me. It fits me, it's familiar, and it doesn't cost a ba-zillion dollars like a full-suspension. And re-learning all those skills on a ht that came easily as a kid (bunny hops, etc) will make me a better rider. I've also dropped about 15 lbs, so no complaints there!
I love hardtails myself and I have owned full suspension bikes over the years. Nothing against them, but I prefer the simplicity of a good hardtail. I have to agree with you about plus tires being the best thing to come out for hardtails. I love that little extra plushness and the gobs of traction. I bought a 2020 Trek Roscoe 8 and my only complaint is the lack of thru-axle. I am 55 yrs old and have been riding mtn bikes for 30 yrs now and this bike suits me fine. I have made some upgrades that definitely have made it better than when I first purchased it.
I agree so much on the thru-axle. I have a Giant Talon 2 (2017) HT (M, 27.5"). I adore the bike, & I use them to date.
It has a QR axle. It limits the upgrade that I can do with my bike.
Lots'a love, cheers, & Mabuhay, from tropical Philippines! #KeepBiking
The best upgrade on my hardtail was installing the PNW Coast dropper. It is the ONLY dropper with 40mm of air suspension. It saved my lower back.
ive been riding fully rigid for several years and it has increased my capacity by a couple magnitudes
Dude!! Nothing like ripping up some trails on a rigid. They will work you over but they are so much fun.
I may ride my full suspension bike more these days, but I LOVE my Trek Stache with it's geometry and 29+ wheels. It is a ridiculously capable, comfortable, FUN ride.
I've been riding a Stache since around October a lot, and it really grew on me. I changed the cockpit a lot though. I found the 29×3.0 tires are a huge boost for technical situations. I ride all sorts of MTB, including a fat bike, and 27+, and even 26+, and the traditional sized tires as well. One bummer though, the wheels are heavy. No denying that.
very informative video man. i’ve only ever ridden a hardtail. i really don’t have any desire to ride/own a full suspension bike. i like simple. my variables are gears, multi or single. rigid or suspension fork. so i guess i am one of those “old crusty” guys riding hardtails
lol I'm 23 and already have this mentality. I fear how insufferable I might become in a decade
Hardtail Renaissance - I see this as older / more experienced riders reconnecting with that first buzz of mountainbiking. Radavist / NSMB are good examples where you find this. I do see hardtails making a come back as people get bored of their full suspension bikes and want something that challenges them and reconnects them to the trail.
Nice video, really cool interview with Hardtail Party, very informative. Personally, if I could only have one bike I'd rather put my money towards a really nice hardtail rather than a mediocre full suspension. Also, I'm still impressed by the fact that you rode that 50 mile race on a hardtail. Respect!
I ride my Yeti ARC hardtail with friends on their fullsus bikes and most of the time I keep up with them. In fact, on many singletracks I'm faster. But you have to learn what a hardtail can and CAN'T do. I've tried keeping up on them on some gnarly DH and have crashed miserably.
Yep, a hardtail is a great tool for the job in a lot of cases, but there are definitely times where a full suspension is going to be faster and more enjoyable.
When I was looking for a bike, the bikeshop I was at had the marin san quentins(agressive hardtails) in stock and they steered me away from them quoting that they were "not versatile enough " and too "xc". It's crazy how there is a huge misconception built on hardtails.
that's madness. The Marin SQ is no way an XC bike.. wow... its definitely more versatile.
I’m old and crusty , so I’ll stick to hardtail. Once I get a new more more modern version , Ragley big Al. I’ll turn my 19’ Timberjack into a single speed and really abuse myself. Great video ! You both are great ambassadors for hardtail ! Thank yoi
Steve mentioned the different QR frame on the Roscoe 6 was for the purpose of hitting a certain price point. He also mentioned earlier that a 148 boost frame doesn't cost any more to manufacture, so wouldn't they be able to also hit that specific price point with the boost frame? If Trek can offer the Roscoe 6 with the better updated frame at the same price but chooses not to for the purpose of funneling the consumer to the more expensive Roscoe 7, then they aren't a company I want to do business with. At the very least I wouldn't buy the Roscoe 6 knowing they are not offering me the best bike they possibly can for the money. They are basically gimping the bike for profit.
I ❤ riding everyday my 17 years old hardtail. Hardtails are timeless...🦾
My pal is fairly new to mtb, about a year or so ago he tasked me with the job of finding him a "proper" bike for around £1k and had to be XL too as hes 6'3". At the time there was still supply chain issues too but managed to get a Ragley Big Al. Even came with Maxxis tyres minion dhr2s, the only upgrade was a dropper post. Great package for the money 💰, I was quite pleased! 😀
Enjoyed!
Awesome!
Hardcore Hardtail for life.
What a great informative video! I'm a couple of weeks late but I really appreciate the insight from you and Steve on this one and it just parallels what I've been feeling all along. I own a mid level (4k) fs bike and it's great but I always seem to have more fun on my ht. So much so that I just built up a 2021 Ragley Mmmbop frame and made it a plus size mullet! It's a blast to ride in the northeast chunk and my fs buds are taking notice of how far ht's have come and starting to get interested in giving the ht a second look. Thanks again for the awesome video! I'm subscribed now!
Great video! Couldn’t agree more, I have a modern FS but I can see myself picking up a modern HT in the future. My current HT is an old Sasquatch that seemed to be pushing into the right direction as far as geometry for its time. It would be great to have a more modern one though!
Interesting video done 2 yrs ago. With the price of bikes and the state of the economy companies will have to focus on making good value hardtails going forward with some bult in future proofing for upgrades. Not many people today are going to be dropping 6k to 10k on a full squish so hardtail with there lower price of entry are the going to be the way newer riders get into the sport of mountain biking.
Such a great discussion! Really awesome to see you got Steve on to talk about hardtails.
What you had to say about hardtails is so spot on. My last hardtail I owned was a 2010 and it just wasn't for me back then. My problem is like you said, it was the geo. Now I'm looking to have a custom built titanium hardtail. Although I will say I'm just pro bike and I'm happy seeing anyone just out riding around and having fun.
Love the hardtail. Got a Roscoe 9 coming next month!
You mentioned head tube angles, so I was curious and did some digging around: I looked at brand new bikes from both Diamondback and Specialized, and I noticed that all of their respective hard tails still have a head tube angle of 68 degrees. (Just one of the Diamondback bikes had a 66-degree head tube angle.) I think this may also be true of decent hard tails made a decade ago. I think it's only with particular [recent] hard tails marketed for aggressive riding where head tube angles with more slack than usual are being seen. It seems to me that the current state of budget hard tails is that their design has remained stagnant for quite a while now -- but that it certainly did reach a point where such bikes became substantially more viable for things beyond XC racing / light single track; the turning might must have been at some point at the beginning of the late 2000s (or maybe as early as the mid-2000s).
Love me some HTP! With my overall preference to fat bikes,I am loving 29+ since getting a wheelset built, I hope it doesn’t die completely. I think I am selling my FS bike this year.
Only watched hald of it so far.. And yea it's true. Companies don't take em seriously.
It's the smaller builders like BTR who in 2011 just went like "Ay mate let's just wing it!" who make em crazy modern hardtails! Probably thanks to BTR we have Enduro hardtails!
I totally agree with you.
Not going to lie, went the road racer -> xc hardtail route. Now I got a short travel trail bike which I love, but converting the hardtail to single speed re-sparked some old love, I recently put a bigger fork and tires for the winter and again, it's a blast!
I'm here to support plus tires for all bikes. I LOVE 29x3.0 and want moar!
I am glad I have the future option to slacken my canyon stoic by 1.5 degrees with a slack r angle set.
..hardtails are da bomb..simple..classy..easy to maintain..and reliable..and they look way better imho than a full squish..and thanks to all the smaller companies putting their hearts into producing awesome steelframes..
Nice commentary on hardtail, I really like my Silverback Slade Trail, midfat with modern geometry and boost frame. Not bad for $900 new. No fs can come close to that.
My thoughts are just simple and what a guest did you have hardtail party rocks!!!
Well… a great Hardtail it’s the most powerful, complete and plus a lots of fun MTB out there.
i love the opportunity to switch between hardtail- and fully-mtb
I'm getting ready to drop 2k on a bike, I was initially thinking full suspension but the more I think about it I don't want the extra weight, cost, and maintenance of dealing with a full sus. I'm gonna order a Ragley Big Al 1.0
I've been riding hardtails since 1975 in SoCal, but "modern" hardtail MTBs since 1991 and still love to ride them now. My view is hardtails are still the most practical MTB to ride for 60 to 70% of the trails or dirt in the world today. A good amount of trails are still smooth or light rock/technical type trails easily ridable by a hardtail. Gravel riding or dirt road/ fire roads are perfect for a hardtail. When the Sea Otter Classic had their first gravel bike race several years ago, I put on my Scott Scale Premium 29er a set of Schwalbe G-One tires (28x1.5"), and it performed perfectly. I've ridden that same bike with normal XC racing tires in the Sea Otter XC races too and so the hardtail is a versatile machine. I also have three FS bikes so I love both depending on terrain.
The invention of dropper posts is a huge reason why hardtails are more viable for rough downhill terrain. Back in the day we had to put our chest on the seat in steep sections. Now you can just drop the seat and ride in a more normal position.
Specialized chisel frame in fact have a lot of flex in the chainstays feels like a 10mm shock the frame is so soft
Rode hardtails from early 90s &still have & use the old 26ers but have moved on fto 27.5 & you feel the difference with a 2.6 or 2.8 tyres on it. The orange crush i have is the one that gets hammered & the p7 with it been a steel frame just eats the miles but im in the UK so the riding is a little different to the states.
Steel steel steel! My ritchey timberwolf is capable on all my local front range CO trails
I have a marlin 5, marlin 6, and roscoe 6. I ended up getting 6 for steal of a deal and personally it my favorite. The guy I purchased of put better parts on it. Anyways it is night to day difference even with budget bike with solid parts. I like shredding on the trails I tend to pass full suspension people all day. I feel like those people would have a better riding experience with hard tail. With there slower pace on trail I feel like they would gain skills. All I know is that I’m the happiest person on trail every time!
Funny you guys mention the upgradability part. It's super important!
When I was shopping for a budget All-Road/gravel bike I saw all the hype about the Poseiden X. My first reaction was that it had 10 speeds and front and rear quick release. I ended up getting a State 4130 All-Road simply because it had 11 speed and front and rear 12mm thru axles with modern spacing just like all the higher end gravel and All-Road bikes.
So those people buying a Poseidon X won't be able to easily upgrade to higher end wheelsets and gearing.
I love my modern xc Hardtails and love to shred love ride fast and hard both i don´t care how they look i would love xc hardtails whit slighty more travel like a110 or 120mm travel fork.
Great stuff, I have a hardtail 27.5+, full suspension 27.5 and a rigid fat bike, love all 3, they all definitely have their special place/purpose. Actually trying to get a set of 29er wheels built for the HT but parts are on BO. Oh and I live in the vicinity of those races and ride them trails all the time they are something special and registration for said races starts Monday January 10th.
Love those trails. They may not be as rowdy as some people like, but it's hard to beat how beautiful they are.
You are so right, I used to wonder why prebuilt bikes are a thing. I wish there was a friendly bike shop that really knows their stuff and would start with ok what is your budget and what kind of ridding do you want to do, then build your components around that information you would get the best fit and best bike for your situation but it comes down to economics and board rooms , but just maybe if you put the user experience first then you would eventually create a large customer base instead of people giving up from a bad experience. This is the same reason I will not buy a brand new car from the dealer ever again. Horrible experience for the customer. Corporations are there to serve the interests of the shareholders and not the communities customers or employees, you get what you incentivize.
I’ve ridden a HT all of my life. Four years ago, I moved from a 26” analogue HT to a E-HT 29er and the difference in handling, comfort and durability was night and day. I cannot agree more about the component set that most bike manufacturers dole out on HT’s but let’s not get into the situation where the only good Hardtails are those cutting £4k.That would be madness.
2019 Santa Cruz chameleon
With everything updated SID Ultimate, carbon wheels, etc.
It rides amazing
Hardtails are ultra cool. They are almost perfect in the sense of "reduce to the max".
I rode hardtails all of my life. I began mountainbiking in the late 1980s when mountainbiking rised, over here in Germany. Hard front and hard tail - nothing else was availiable. And, after a long break with kids and a lot of whitwater kayakaing, I returned to mountainbiking, which, here in the black forrest where I live, is possible directly on the doorstep.
I bought my first FS bike this year in the age of 64, but I dont like it. For me It felt always like a flat rear tire. Hardtails are so much directer, simpler and robuster than FS bikes - straightforward and perfect.
And Steve from HP is a fantastic guy. I love his Channel and spend a lot of time watching his videos. Unfortunately I am far away from his riding skills. But I tell myself always: Hey, if that what this guy is riding in his videos is feasible on a hardtail, a hardtail is more than enough for the stuff that I am riding.
0:42 It was hard to find a hardtail that worked for anything but the smoothest of trails? How do you qualify that? We all rode hardtails on some pretty rugged terrain back in the day, sometimes even fast. You are right about head tube angles getting slacker, but that isn't a hardtail thing, it's just a mountain bike thing and it didn't just start happening. When I got into mtb head angles were around 71, and something like 69 was considered very slack.
I’ve ridden MTB bikes since ‘94 and owned many variations, even at the same time. It was the time I picked up a rigid SS bike that converted me. It was the feel of the bike, the connection with the ground, agility in cornering, and overall simplicity that hooked me. My FS ride just started spending more time on the wall, eventually go sold, and now the stable is filled with HT’s only. Nothing against FS bikes, it just shows the vastness of the sport and infinite ways there are to enjoy it. Europeans never lost site of this genre and it’s great that it’s catching on in North America. I do agree that + tires were a game changer. I’m too old to feel every bump and have my filling rattle lose.
Yeah, I was looking for a modern HT and noticed a discrepancy between what's available in the States compared to Europe.
They've got some nice stuff in Europe for good prices too, wish more people were interested in importing them, but they likely don't because they're not FS bikes.
Great discussion breaking down a lot of good information.
I recently built a Wildcat FS and passed on a hardtail for a lot of reasons I think Steve would agree with: all my friends ride FS, I can only afford one bike so I don’t want to be outgunned or underbiked on shuttle days, and I got a terrific deal on a capable frame and was able to spec it out to my taste. I will continue to recommend hardtails to my friends. Please come to Spokane, Steve!
While I personally prefer hardtails, it’s all about what each person wants/needs for their terrain/riding style/enjoyment. In your case I probably would’ve gone the same route…especially if you’re talking about the RSD Wildcat haha.
The wildcat is a special bike. I'll see what I can do about making a Spokane trip happen. Travel plans are a little dicey right now with the COVID madness
The merida big trail 600 is a excellent hardtail trail bike.. check it out, not sure if you get them in the USA though.
Trek's procaliber with the top/seat tube bushing and the supercaliber are def innovations, although the latter is tech a hybrid full suspension. But still an innovation.
The rest of your points are just geo issues, although valid
Reasons for hardtails include, reduced maintenance, and simpler setup, Just makes it easier to get out and ride.
The complexity and maintenance of the rear suspension (some of those rear shocks have to go to a service centre as in they are not serviceable at home) and having to replace rear suspension bearings a couple of times a year, is putting me off getting full suspension bike for the same money as a decent HT. I just have to accept there are limitations but at my age my balls have shrunk and I take it a lot easier than 30 years ago 😀
Good to see more of this content. I've ridden 30 mountain bikes and bought a surly. What do you think if surly? I'm not that impressed with the frame weight and stiffness.
I actually really like Surly, but I’d never buy one expecting something light and quick. I just really appreciate that they’ll take risks on things that other brands won’t (29+, fat bikes) while keeping things budget friendly yet reliable.
@@RideYearRound it is budget friendly, but my niner sir9 and bianchi lupo are so smooth and light for a steel bikes
@@RideYearRound Surly introduced the 29" Karate Monkey in 2002 when most 29ers were built by smaller companies. I agree their frames are heavy, but if you're running plus tires, which I run sometimes, your bike overall is probably going to be heavy, ha! The KM with front suspension is a fun ride. Great video!
You are good and nice video!
I subscribed to you and I do ride as well.😀
In summary, I just don’t like the way the back end of a full suspension bike moves. I don’t like the way it compresses through corners. I don’t like the way is moves as I move around when climbing and unbalances me. I’m always adjusting the pressure and rebound and it’s never right which annoys me. With a hardtail I can feel exactly where the rear wheel is. Plus tyres at low pressure with an insert works in most situations. It’s just not as fast and controllable descending the rough but I honestly don’t care about that :-)
I had a GG Pedalhead and for me it was too aggressive. My 2020 Timberjack is kinda a good Jack of all trades…Maybe the new Timberjack is less of a Jack of all trades?
My GT Zaskar (Expert) 2021 has the unique connection between seatstay and top tube coupled with 450mm chain stay. This to give more compliance to the frame. I know Hardtail Party and many others prefer almost as short a chain stay length as possible for playfulness, but that is probably one of the single most detrimental aspects for compliance as well. This is my first MTB so I´m happy for the extra length to feel more safe and stable on the downhills as well as good weight distribution on the climb. Unfortunately I dont think the Zaskar is sold in US, its got a nice geo and components for the price, I paid $1600 including tax. Pretty sure it wont fit bigger than 2,6" tires though.
I would argue that tubing thickness is the single most detrimental aspects to compliance. It's true that longer chainstays will be softer if all other things are equal, but short stays don't necessarily mean stiff rear ends.
Awesome friggin video. It seems Norco has replaced their passionate bike builders with accountants as well. I understand the craziness in the industry and parts shortage and blah blah but come on. $900- $1100 hardtails spec'd like or worse than some Walmart bikes. Take a look at their Storm line, especially.
Just becz u guys i am going back to hardcore hardtail 😊
I had to pause at 5:45 I also have a timberjack and was wondering if you’ve thought about setting up a fat mullet ?
Nope I never did a fat mullet, but I have done that on my fat bike and that's pretty fun.
A little bit of rust but drives great... Sounds like my E30, no wonder why I like Hardtail Party...
Damn, I feel like I'm getting roasted here lmao
My $1200 hardtail is coming in tomorrow.
I tried getting a Fathom 29er but they were unavailable in medium all last year and the 2022 model lost one of the best things it had which was the microspline hub on their base model and went to a ten speed deore which is perfectly fine, but they're charging more money for less future adaptability.
It had the geometry I wanted, tried getting a Growler, but again not really available.
Ended up ordering a Fezzari Wasatch Peak which is better geo than what I'm currently riding which is a 12 year old hardtail, but I'm slapping on a DVO diamond and a wolf tooth geo shift to get it closer to what I wanted.
It's boost with a tapered HT with pretty good specs. I think I'll be happy with it for the riding I do.
If you'll be happy with it for the riding you'll do then that's a great bike for you. The geo is pretty spot on for an xc hardtail these days and with boost TAs and a threaded BB you'll have no problem upgrading it. For what it's worth, my Timberjack wasn't a whole lot more so it's not like I'm riding anything super expensive.
@@RideYearRound Yeah, we really don't have anything too crazy where I live. No mountains where I'm at.
The sad thing is, now days you can buy hard tails and full sus frames with tapered head tubes and competitive geometry from walmart at the $500 price point. Why would you spend $1000 dollars on a bike shop beginner bike? When you can get basically the same thing for half the price and use that $500 you saved for better parts than you would have gotten on the bike shop entry models.
I think we need to bring back rigid hard tails at lower cost with plus size tyres. I upgraded to a modern hard tail last year with a good front fork which ups the price a lot, but with the trails i ride, i think a modern rigid bike would be better than having cheaper suspension forks available on entry level bikes as long as they have good tyres & brakes.
Rigid and 29+ is a REALLY fun combination. If you're not looking to buy another bike, there are a lot of rigid forks out there that are suspension corrected for everything from 80 to 120mm of travel and you could put one of those on your hardtail.
I'll have to do some research for something I have 130mm fork with 27.5 2.6 tyres, wouldn't mind trying rigid again, not sure if the frame would take the beating though, my Ragley Marley feels fairly lightweight
"...the world still hates them." 😂😂😂
Two words come into mind: cognitive friction.
Lots'a love, cheers, & Mabuhay, from tropical Philippines! #KeepBiking
Personally I'm not going to invest money into an expensive hard tail for one simple fact. The closest bike park only allows hard tail bikes on green and blue single track.
It might be silly to even consider red and black trails for a beginner. To be honest I I have no clue how long it takes to go from blue to red. But why spend 2500 euros on a bike that isn't allowed on half the tracks at my local bike park.
I bild may bikes, hardtail, its cool
We get it! Through axles are nicer! But why so much hate for the QR? I mean, it’s a 90 year old proven technology and it’s perfectly safe...
The push isn't necessarily that they're nicer, it's that QR is slowly being phased out except for on things that are on the budget/low end of the spectrum. So when someone wants to upgrade components like the fork or wheelset, the selection of components worth dropping some money on is limited.
@@turboelephant6298 How so? Have you really experience your tire flying off? And, discarding human error in the process of putting it on...
Qr and disc brakes dont mix. The vagueness of qr requires adjustment of caliper every time you remove the wheel. Thru axle is worth it for that alone.
@@MrTrixton I’ve never once had a problem with my brakes, nor have I heard of such problems presenting in the brakes of QR bikes. And when I’ve heard of issues arriving, it has been because of poor wheel reinsertion, aka human error. Of course, is my experience I’m talking about.
@@RideYearRound from the standpoint of a smaller bike brand, going from QR to Thru-Axle is easily a $60 to 90 jump on the retail level for the frame and fork alone so it is more expensive. The dropouts are more complicated and more expensive. Thru axles are 3 to 4x the cost of a lowly QR. Cost may go down when factories amortize the cost of those investment cast bits.
the trek 6 and 7 and on difference is pretty fishy hahah
to the guy that said to steve you can't tell the difference in ride between hardtails, he is so wrong for sure. That dude needs to ride a Marin San Quentin down a stair step, then immediate ride said stair step on a Marin Bob Cat Trail. You will still have your teeth in your head after the Bob Cat Trail ride, as long as he doesn't ride the San Quentin first, because the San Quentin will shake your teeth out, and loosen your eye sockets. I know I have own both those bikes.
Huge issue not being discussed.....stay with me....slacker geo is not universally good. My local trail system, that I helped cut, was basically entirely built between 1989 and 1999. Combined with existing hiking and horse riding trails, there's enough for multiple full day rides without repeats. These trails were all laid out to ride great with the bikes available. The newer geo bikes, hardtail or squish, ride like crap on the trails. They are fully capable of riding them sure, but they are boring as hell. To fully appreciate a bike with "modern" geo would require a minimum 3-4hr drive. I've had this discussion at a local shop that started an xc race series on these trails in the mid 90's and they fully agree.......the bikes they currently carry are not best suited to the trails 90% of their customers will be using. I dont know what the solution is......but unless you are willing to pay top dollar for an xc whip, the bikes on sale are not ideal for the local trails. Makes ZERO sense.
People are stupid.
You can talk geometry numbers to many VERY experienced MTB'ers, hardtail or full sus, but most stay at the medium level, never knowing even what THEY like.
Most people never have the curiosity of wondering why something is working for them, rather following marketing and names blindly.
They can be a very intelligent lawyer or engineer, but when it comes to their own ride preferences, they are stupid