GPU Prices Suck. This Is What They SHOULD Have Cost
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- čas přidán 5. 05. 2024
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Video Index
00:00 - Welcome to Hardware Unboxed
03:27 - Nvidia GPU Value: $250-300
05:34 - Nvidia GPU Value: $200-250
05:45 - Nvidia GPU Value: Below $200
06:22 - Nvidia GPU Value: $350-500
08:07 - Nvidia GPU Value: $500-600
09:09 - AMD GPU Value: $200-300
10:23 - AMD GPU Value: $300-350
10:43 - AMD GPU Value: $350-500
11:25 - AMD GPU Value: $500-600
11:48 - AMD GPU Value: $200
12:24 - What Mainstream GPUs Should Have Cost
13:46 - What Mid-Range GPUs Should Have Cost
15:49 - What Upper Mid-Range GPUs Should Have Cost
16:34 - What Entry Level GPUs Should Have Cost
17:32 - Fixed Pricing Overview and Final Thoughts
Read this feature on TechSpot: www.techspot.com/article/2817...
GPU Prices Suck. This Is What They SHOULD Have Cost
Disclaimer: Any pricing information shown or mentioned in this video was accurate at the time of video production, and may have since changed
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im just ignoring this gen because its so absurdly priced. $1000 USD for an 80 class card??? screw that, ill wait for something actually good thx
I fear that the next gen won't be any cheaper.
@@stuartthurstan true, Nvidia's market cap is through the roof, AMD being AMD and Intel still solving driver issues.
You're going to have to wait forever.
@@JoeMama-yl1owyou trolling? Because you need to be real thick to think that’s always the case.
Cheers mate.
as much as I agree with you, I don’t think nvidia learned anything. GeForce GPUs comprise such a small portion of their profit at this point that even though sales weee likely a bit underwhelming on cards they’ll just continue selling them at inflated prices. I’d be shocked if the 5090 is less than 2 grand, and I can imagine the following cards are that much better. Get ready for the 5070 to be 700 bucks or something deranged like that.
I will not bend over and pay these prices
Don't worry, there is still plenty of framerate queens who will
THANKS FOR THE LEATHER
Most people won't, but nvidia targets are people with deep pockets.
@@jensenhuangnvidiaceo9478 GPU's arent just for graphics anymore, in fact they changed the nomenclature to be "general processing units" These cards are not for consumers anymore. Get ready to be forced into cloud gaming, where even the consoles will live.
@@J.erem.y "cloud gaming" completely failed a few years ago.
@@samserious1337 Correct, because people had choices of actually running the hardware on their own system. AI is like the bitcoin mining rush, without an end and can be done on any number of gpu's added to the proverbial pot. Most importantly, its here to stay compared to crypto mining. Nvidias moving into the top 3 largest companies in the world didnt happen because of the gaming industry, in fact AI is replacing that role for the company entirely.
It seems like my salary doesn't even bother catching up to inflation
What I'm thinking. Using inflation as an excuse isn't gonna work when you still get paid the same. If people can't afford your gpus they can't afford gpus.
If you're not getting a pay bump when most people clearly are then whose fault is it? @@thelazyworkersandwich4169
This is the problem with using inflation.
1-Salaries aren't inflation-linked. So you earn more, and typically have less because other things also went up.
2-Items don't go up just because inflation does. Some things do, some things don't. The amount is also not the same as the average. Some things might go up by 50%, some drop by 30%.
3-Even if inflation does cause the item to go up, the item doesn't need to proportionately increase.
£500 GPU with £300 profit, £200 costs, means that you have a 33% profit margin.
10% inflation pushes it to a £550 GPU with £220 costs, but your profit increased to £330. Which is larger than the amount required to counter the costs of inflation.
@@user-ds8rj2vc4v only salaries do follow inflation as they are its component too. In fact, save for shock events, salaries tend to outrun inflation across a few years.
@@thelazyworkersandwich4169 "using inflation as an excuse isn't gonna work when still paid the same " then sorry you have MUCH bigger problem than buying a computer hardware component and that's entirely YOUR problem
RX 6600 has to be everyone’s go to entry-level GPU at this point. In some countries you could find them used for under $120 and there’s virtually no competition at that price point
I bought the 6600 XT from a miner for 140€, bless the mining crash.
i built a new pc recently with 7800x3d but kept my old rx 6600 because i feel nothing is worth buying right now, hoping 5000 series will be good
They are still 200 used in Europe..
@stipe1615 You might be interested in the next rx 8000 series from amd. I've heard the rx8800 will have the 4080's performance for 400$. This might be BS of course because leaks are never 100% true.
Have a 6600 (bought just before the gpu prices dropped from the mining/covid peak 😢🥺😅) and honestly it's an amazing card, runs most of the games I play at 1440p with high settings (except ray tracing obviously) and decent fps with fsr2. Obviously I'd rather have something better, but it's good enough for now.
I went from buying a card every gen to making them last as long as possible.
In other words, I used to upgrade because I loved the new hardware. Now I only upgrade out of necessity.
I went from being enthusaistic about new hardware releases to be completely non-chalant and unexcited.
Same here. I only upgrade the GFX card if there is a game that I really want to play. Same goes for the platform. That is why I am still on a 9900k CPU, it still has enough horsepower for gaming .... and lower latency than the modern chiplet stuff.
Whether I love the new hardware or not, I always upgrade out of necessity. My first build was 8700k 1080ti, sold it during the pandemic for a 3070 laptop and built a 4090 rig when it was launched.
I predominantly play esports games but loved new hardware and would typically upgrade each gen. I purchased a 7900XTX and now I’m done, honestly this GPU was stupid expensive and I simply won’t need more for half a decade
When the mid range was around $200-300, it wasn't that big of a decision, now that it is $500-900, it requires a bit more thought, especially since salaries haven't exactly kept up
The biggest Problem of the 3060 and the 4060 are, that they're RTX cards, although not capable of delivering good raytracing performance. And so they're completely overpriced, while promising a feature they can not properly provide.
Exactly!! RT just isn't a legitimate selling point for cards right now as the performance is shocking. Making people pay extra for something that doesn't perform well is bs.
If they removed their tensor cores, and any other silicon dedicated to raytracing, upscaling or frame generation, there would be more room for native rasterisation and a better memory interface.
The problem with the RTX 4060 is that it's actual an RTX 4050 in specs, labelled as a 4060 - as such doesn't really even beat the RTX 3060 in performance and loses in price-to-performance.
@@martineylesdumb comment so you want a gpu to be ol basic boring gaming only hardware ? Tensor core at this year and time and other dedicated hardware accelerator is much welcomed that's why AMD and Intel added their own dedicated hardware too, go buy old gpu if you love traditional gpu!!
@@Eleganttf2 Not dumb at all. If there aren't enough tensor cores to be useful they're a waste of silicon. There is a point having them on a high end card, but not on a low end card.
Another important thing to note is that while prices rose thanks to inflation, most people's wages didn't. So many people can't really afford to shop at the same performance tier anymore.
My wage went from $27/hr 5 years ago to $30/hr last year. Good thing I’ll be done with my engineering degree in a year.
For most people increase in salaries outpaced inflation. If yours didn't whose fault is it? This is a perfect example of an average whining gamer - be a useless individual wasting half his life on living in fake reality, while b...ing about stagnating income in the real world. LOL
@@michael.petraeus statistics for many countries would disagree with you
@@michael.petraeus Are those "most people" in the room with us right now?
@@HunterTracks Obviously not here, since this room is overcrowded with whiners who can't connect the dots between their gaming addiction and lagging real life income, while complaining about GPUs they can't afford.
exactly my situation. sitting tight on my 1070. Couldn't get a hold of any GPU during the crypto boom, so waited out for 40 series. What a disappointment.
yep me too, and as someone else said , " I will not bend over and pay these prices "
My 1070 was going strong but it coughed the other day so now having to look at buying a replacement in this market 😢
@@cideway Oh no, I am sorry to hear that, nothing worse then being forced to do it,
so team Red or Green ? last Gen or this Gen ? New or Second ?
If only Spock were here he'd be fascinated with this illogical dilemma, but not really much help besides a single raised eyebrow.
Also have 1070, bought PS5, now aiming for PS5 Pro end of this year. Am considering a new GPU when new gen comes out beginning of next year. But with EU prices it will be even more expensive than already crazy MSRP. I wonder how much would I need to pay for some 8800XT.
You could have grabbed a 6950xt for like 600 dollars after the crypto boom, but I guess you were speculating that nvidia will actually offering a good value generation while sitting on the biggest stockpile of inventory in the history of the company.
That was not the best bet, right?
Nvidia new they can't offer good value this generation, so they did not even tried to do so, but went hard on at least having a giant performance lead with the 4090 and 4080. That did work out pretty well for them and for a lot of gamers who just went for old AMD and Nvidia cards instead when there was still too much inventory with both brands.
I upgrade every 7 years unless the card itself commits seppuku
😂
😂
Don't give them ideas what to ,,improve" :p
I upgrade twice in the past 3 years cause i bought a 1050ti during the mining craze
You get an internet point for not saying sudoku
Nostalgically looking back at an age when a mid xx70 card was just £300.
Which would be, umm, maybe 700 series?
@@samiraperi467 My MSI 970 was £280.
Thank the WEF and Western Governments, instituting policies that are deliberately creating inflation.
@@ornatus9616 I got a MSI Radeon HD 6950 for $300 back in the day.. Miss those GPU prices. Weirdly enough, now I have a 6800XT (which cost a hellofa lot more). AMD has been weird with their numbering schemes on their gpu's.
That was also back in the days of SLI, where it wasn’t unreasonable to expect someone to buy two of those 70 class gpus. I knew a few people with SLI 970’s for example.
Oh absolutely do a follow up on the High End too. Also "predict" what the next Gen "should or could be" if you take those Numbers.
Companies like nvidia had two possible paths to follow: Selling lots of video cards at a low price, or selling less video cards at a premium price and obtain the same net profit... obviously, they've chosen the latter. I've been building my own Pcs since early 2000s and I always upgraded my video card every christmas. The performance upgrade was always totally worth it. Now I'm just stuck with my 9th gen cpu and my 3060ti, why? because current prices feel like they're scamming you, I can easily pay for the greatest hardware out there, but I cant stop thinking than half of what I'm paying is going directly to some CEO's pocket who randomly put a price tag on a product that should be cheaper...
6:00 "But surprisingly, they've actually kept pace, offering the same level of terribleness each time." 👈👈 That sums up Nvidia pretty nicely. And why I haven't upgraded since 2016.
whats even worse is they've gone out of their way to keep people from buying last gen high end cards NiB after the next generation releases.. e.g. the 1080ti was a force buyback from retailers to get it off the market so it didn't compete with the RTX 2080 that was slower. the 3080/3080ti/3090 were pretty much gone within a month or so of the 40 series launch at most retailers even though we know they over produced them leading up to the 40 series launch. so where did the cards go? pretty much why i've stuck with AMD cards for the last 4 generations because i can't be bothered to buy the over priced crap being released when i can get last gen for half the price while only being 10-15% slower.
It's why I left it for AMD in 2018, been happy since then. And have better Linux support under it as well. Much welcome.
In a lot of cases it is even worse than that because local retailers (in Greece for example) add another 50/100 euros, or more, to already overpriced products, making them even less worthwhile.
Yep eu very often gets fuked over. Like for example right now the oled 4k monitors are going nearly 30-50% over what they're in us, even tax included. I saw people getting the msi 950$ one for 700-800$+- due to various discounts, meanwhile here it's around the equivalent of 1600-2000$ usd. Not everyone in Europe live in germant or Norway either, so the price increase for some of the poorer eu countries is extremely bad.
@@GFClocked Now try buying pc parts in Africa, in my country its 4x the price.
A $1000 card is over $4000 here.
@@GFClocked yeah I'm talking extra charges on top of currency exchange rates and taxes. It can get ugly really fast
@@heru_ur6017 yeah... It can quickly take something already expensive and make it just not attainable for large groups of people
It's not that bad, considering it's price with taxes.
xx60 8GB - $250, xx60ti 12GB - $300
xx70 12GB - $400, xx70ti 16GB - $500
xx80 16GB - $700, xx80ti 20GB - $800
xx90 with 24GB+ - $1000 (but as a HALO product for semi-professional use for AI it could be $1200)
My biggest struggle with Nvidia is that they lock their cards in every way possible (BIOS, Voltage, Power Level, PCI-E lanes, ect.) and only put the minimum amount of reasonable VRAM in. It is like paying extra to make it worse. Like buying a Lambo with 700hp but it is restricted to 100mph and the restriction is obligated and costs extra.
I bought a used RTX 3090 for €600 with 24 GB of VRAM and do not plan to upgrade for quite some time. The greediness of the duopoly is hard to cope with, no welcome atmosphere for buying.
Yep, but they already have a plan for you too. It is called: Software. There is no real reason why certain things would not work on a 3090 but they will restrict their future software to newer cards that performe the same as the last generation. @@astarothmarduk3720
так вся мощность видеокарты ограничена именно чипом. Вы же не покупаете gtx 980ti, потому что там стоял лучший чип на то время.
There are certainly limits of the chip itself but after the 900 series Nvidia does not allow you to find out the limit by your own but give you a hard cap that you cannot exceed. There is no silicon lottery anymore. @@user-rv1vt6wg1e
It's starting to look like Apples product segmentation, doesn't it?
Really unique video proposition. We need to keep doing this every release. Good job!
That's a lot of work, also new drivers appears time to time) Probably might be great to see such graphics after full launch of a new generation.
That would be amazing. You could check instantly, if it really sucks or you just feel like it does. This gen definitely felt like it sucked pretty hard and... it does suck. Last gen felt amazing.... until prices exploded because oh Crypto and shortages.... and then it sucked as hard. And before that... lets just not talk about the rtx 2000 series shall we? Rx 5000 was a mixed bag. And before that was the golden age of GPUs with GTX 1000 series, which we all are nostalgic for.
Maybe not every release, but I'd love these as a late-gen "look back" upon value after most of a generation's releases are all out and done.
Laughing while seeing the 7900XT costing 1000USD and the 7900 XTX costing 1200USD, here in Brazil, even after AMD cut prices. Nvidia is even more expensive, im not buying any graphics card on these stupid prices anytime soon.
I honestly don't blame Brazilians for being pirates until things get better.
well, thats on your Tariffs, not on AMD/Nvidia.
I checked Czech shops and 7900XTX is pretty much exactly for 1200 USD with today exchange rate.
@Pidalin that's pretty high, but Brazil has it worse when it comes to tech. Their wages are lower, their currency is weaker, but gaming hardware is high anyways. Their games used to be cheaper, but they keep getting more expensive.
@@sodapopinksi667 It's the same here in Czech Republic, our salaries are like 1/3 of german ones, but we pay more for everything, our streaming services have regioblocked half of content, our food from western supermarket chains is second grade quality for higher price than in Germany etc....new PC game here was mostly for like 40 eur, that was for many years, it was cheaper in boxed version in local shops than on steam with global prices, but now, even prices of boxed versions are the same like on steam, which is mostly 60 eur for new game. I think it's really not fair and you pay even more because you have to pay in eur when your currency is not euro.
From what I found, average salary in Brazil is very similar to my country, I don't know about housing prices, that skyrocketed here in last few years, especially after energy crisis after war in ukraine started.
I upgrade every 4-5 Years~. My goals are not based on % of the GPU performance jumps per generation. My expectations are linked to FPS. I do not upgrade unless i get under 60 FPS regularly on different games. Example: If i can play 4 out of 5 games (tripple A) at 60 FPS or higher i see no reason to upgrade. At 2 out of 5 games under 60 FPS...its time to think about upgrades.
Currently running a 6900 XT Nitro and a R5 5600x for 3 Years now and they are both still going super strong in 1440p. Might swap with RX 8000 and new R5 8000 CPUS.
I basically do the same. Perhaps tweaking settings like shadow quality down a bit some times, as it barely impacts quality, whist pumping a few % up on the FPS. I've also got a 6900 XT (Sapphire Toxic), and originally had a 3800X when I built my system a few years ago, but upgraded this to a 5800X 3D, the 3D cache gives a nice boost in performance, and was way cheaper to do than switching to AM5 (as that would need new motherboard and RAM as well of course). I've no intention of going to 70xx XT/X (or 40xx) cards, as there isn't enough of a performance increase, and poor monetary value anyway atm.
Great video Tim! I upgraded from a GTX 970 to a GTX 1080 for about $130US this year. Nothing seems to be worth it for 3x the cost or more.
From the perspective of a statistician (me), the way this data has been interpreted isn't quite correct. You are measuring Upgrade Cycle (Independent Variable), Relative Performance Uplift (Mediator/Moderator), and Satisfaction (Dependent Variable). You need to keep this in mind.
Your Demographics look as follows using cumulative percentages for 80% of Population Satisfied:
Every Generation: 150% (because this is how you scaled your later graphs)
Two Generations: 180%
Three Generation: 200%
Four Generations: 200%
Five Generations: 300%
You only have 3 upgrade cycles mapped to your graphs over 4 years, so we can't test Four Gen and Five Gen (Although Four is the same as three so we can say a little about that).
The constant shifting of the trend line to new baseline positions is interesting, but the way the interpretation continues to roll along with the shift isn't quite interpreting this data correctly. You need to interpret the effect of Upgrade Cycle choice on Satisfaction with this type of data (also use cumulative % for your graph at 1:40 - it took me two minutes to convert it). The mechanism driving this is Relative Performance Uplift - but remember that this is not your dependent variable so you shouldn't be interpreting it like a dependent variable (it is probably a moderator).
Across all of the graphs, products released immediately after the previous one have a lower chance of meeting the requirements for "satisfaction" year-on-year (because this is 150%) and meeting this requirement on a rolling basis will fall short for all low performing years. This doesn't mean that these cards are a "bad buy", because that is not what you are testing here. It means that people who buy every generation are less likely to be satisfied with the Performance Uplift, compared to those who upgrade every three generations or four generations (who both require 200%). Even two year upgraders are more likely to be satisfied (at their 180%). This is because graphics card performance uplift is always going to be unstable year on year. There will be some bad years and some good years, as you have pointed out. You should resist the urge to use this data to conflate "bad buy" with a particular generation (if you are indeed basing this on satisfaction rates). If "good buy" is linked with satisfaction, then the lag between purchases is the thing to talk about. You should recommend that to avoid this "good year/bad year problem", people upgrade every 3 or 4 years, which you definitely do start alluding to at 19:25! You are overstretching to suggest that the data is telling GPU companies to change their approach (as only 9% of buyers are year-on-year buyers). Two-year, Three-year, and Four-year buyers are 75% of the market (at 0:59)! Your graphs suggest that these buyers are very likely to meet their thresholds for satisfaction (at 80% of population thresholds).
More respect should be shown for your 4-year timeframe - use it! This is a good move you have made! Many fields use 5-year cycles to create rolling norms for performance data, because year-on-year is often invalid, and you can see here why. So you are following an approach approximating good practice here, but you should interpret this as testing the relationship between Upgrade Cycle (Independent Var), Relative Performance Uplift (Mediator/Moderator), and Satisfaction (Dependent Variable) - not GPU performance.
Whether a GPU is a good buy (in the absolute sense), relative to other factors is highly context sensitive, and your normal approach to reviews are a far superior means of making such a judgment.
Feel free to reach out to me if you want to work on your methodology.
Just a random response - great explanation! I however did a similar analysis in Oct 2023 for the last gen to the current gen where I set the baseline comparison as the 3080 and 6800 XT and came to very similar conclusions, even though I did not have the issue of a dependent variable. I just set my conditions for a "Good Uplift" at 30%, which is great coincidence with the polled community! Based on my analysis, my hit prices line up with Tim's for the X60 to X70 class. Here are my hit prices for the high-end:
- RTX 4070 Ti /RX 7900 XT - ~$650
- RTX 4080 / RX 7900 XTX - ~$850
- RTX 4090 - ~$1100
Would be cool to see what Tim calculates for his high-end GPUs.
For a rough comparison, he did ok. Comparing a niche product to average for everything inflation increases does create a false picture. Probably a thesis paper for a statistician showing all the variables that go into making a GPU.
I upgraded to 6800 XT from 1660 super after around 3 years and i could not be happier as the performance leap for the price paid is so worth it.
Depends when you got it. My 6800XT cost an arm and a leg.. and a kidney... and i think my first born, not sure yet.
great upgrade
I went the whole hog and jumped from GTX1060 6GB (£210) to a 6950XT (£540) after 6 1/2 years... I'm hoping it'll last me until intel becomes competative and the duopoly collapses.
Broke my monitor this time last year, so replaced a 1440p with a 4k and my 5700XT was not liking it at all (cracking card, keeping it around as a backup). Got a 7900XT (Sapphire Pulse) to replace it for £750, which I think was a decent price for the time.
Exactly the same for me. I'm loving the 6800 XT.
I feel like the people who upgrade less frequently will care more about VRAM, so even if you're on a 10 series card, the regular 4060ti and below are dead in the water.
This is why the 12GB 3060 is doing so well even in 2024. That nonsensical 12GB of VRAM on release became its main selling point later. For hobbyist rendering workloads it's the best card you can get from Nvidia that's still in stock new. To get more than 12GB of VRAM you have to spend hundreds more.
This was one awesome analysis, well done! I only miss the same repricing done for the highest-end GPUs, so yes definitely that followup would be much welcome!
When I upgrade my GPU I just want something that is twice as good as what I've got, and it's the same with my CPU upgrades as well.
Kind of the same. Except I would add "at a reasonable price". Which is why I'm sticking with my RX 6800 for now.
@@UltimateByte I'm usually the same with the "reasonable price" thing but I couldn't upgrade my Pascal card because of the mining boom, so ended up waiting two years longer than I wanted to. Then ideally I should have waited for the 50 series but I'd waited too long already, so I bit the bullet and got stung with a 4070.
@@Sid-Cannon Doesn't astonish me that you agree, probably like most people, otherwise everyone would have a 4090.
For now I'm stuck as well with no reasonable upgrade to make.. I had a good deal on the RX6800 during cypto boom, at 500€.
I'd go with a 4080Ti/Super if it didn't cost more than twice what I paid for my previous card, there is no way I'm paying 1200€ for an upgrade, that doesn't make any sense.
I’m good with a 50% upgrade.
Going from 120FPS to 180FPS in a game is good enough for me.
@@UltimateByte Yeah same here, and though the 4070 Ti Super does acheive that twice as much performance or more as my current card in pretty much every situation at 1440p I just couldn't justify spending almost double the amount of money as I payed for my 2070S to do so.
I'm starting to think that Nvidia and AMD are not really in competition and more so price fixing. The head of each company are actually family members. These prices are just out of control. The Ultra budget list seems to be the only one close to realistic pricing, the rest just go into the stratosphere with the prices.
Bruh now that you mention it, there should be family members throughout the whole hierarchies of both companies.
A duopoly is basically just a monopoly assuming the companies decide to communicate at all. They fake competition, gouge pricing, and then can hide behind the argument that it isn’t a monopoly, while they both put their focus into entirely opposite sides of the gpu space. AMD focuses on consoles and custom SKUs, Nvidia focuses on productivity and AI.
The hope here is that Intel can actually shake the market up with their next launch. Otherwise these prices aren’t going to get better. Watch the 4090 still hold a 1300 dollar price tag even after the new generation due to insane pricing.
It's always was like this, competition among big corporations are fake, they're all on the same side.
@@solkvist8668 notice how AMD prices their own cards one step below and in between Nvidia's. It's not a coincidence.
They are def not competitors. One holds 90 percent of the dedicated GPU market. The other is for those people who insist on getting the value/budget/store brand. Small loud group that will insist they are just as good, while the rest of the world knows the difference. I gave radeon a try, with the Rx 6800. Using that card has made extremely excited that my 4070 Super will be delivered tomorrow. No more dealing with trash AA, and feeling like I have hardware from the PS4 era.
man, Thank you for this video, its great to see validation in our minds to see how things haven't really kept up!
I miss the time when 200$ buys you a decent GPU, and budget segment was 150$ or below.
Well, today you can take RX6600 and have enough performance to run games in 1080p mostly on high preset. But if you go for good productivity in 2K/4K your wallet will scream)
Same. I also miss that that affordability allowed you to upgrade every year and that the gains were worth it.
When was that lol?
@@X_irtz I'm not sure of exactly when he's referring to, but my first three GPUs in the late 90s were all $100-200, and they were high end models at the time. I believe that you could still buy decent GPUs for under $200 well into the 2000s.
@@X_irtzI bought a 560ti 1gb in 2011 for 230 USD.
Title gets a thumbs up from that alone. Yes the prices do indeed suck.
Everything about PC sucks
@@SWOTHDRA yes but the gpus suck more than everything else.
Buy used or don't buy at all. Maybe look into another hobby. You don't have to play by their rules.
@@SWOTHDRANot really. Aios & air coolers, ssd, mobo are good. Cpu arguably.
@@GeneralS1mba mayb but still being on X86 for almost 40 years sucks ass ARM and RISC are the future
Like said back in scalper pricing days, people should not buy overpriced gpus. I didnt. Now we all suffer, because people just had to have them at any price.
stop blaming consumers, vote with your dollar is a lie, especially when there's a monopoly/oligopoly. nvidia and amd both have the bottomless demand in servers. they could dedicate zero fab capacity to gaming gpu's and probably make more money. if we stop buying them, they'll just stop making them. they don't have much incentive to lower margins.
@@joshieecs How do you know how many are ordering servers. Also production can be increased if there is demand. Would make no sense not to make and sell as many gaming GPUs as possible while selling as many servers as possible. There was a production shortage due to covid and flood, but that is behind us now.
@@joshieecs Why would they stop making them 😂😂 Vote with your money is absolutely not a lie. Companies want to make money - you stop buying their products, the price comes down until people do buy them. It's as simple as that.
People bought them for those high prices because they could earn money with them by mining Ethereum. You can't expect people to not want to earn money. The GPU companies now need to realize that mining ended and they need to provide normal generational uplifts, or expect people to upgrade less often.
@@aapje Miners did make up a big part of those buyers yes, I forget them, but there were still also just gamers who bought entire brand computers just to get a GPU.
Loved the video and especially the in depth analysis and inclusion of so many graphics cards. Can't get content like this anywhere else on YT!
It is great to see that you tackle such a complex data-driven content. I think you did a great job in presenting the data without letting the amount of numbers overwhelm the viewer.
makes sense the market cap of nvidia is higher than the gdp of canada.
That's all thanks to them selling millions of $40000 H100 cards, not the work of the gaming division.
@@lharsay but it does affect the gaming division too since they have "f you" level money and a hardcore fanbase like apple so they like them they can release the gaming gpus at extortionate prices and not only will they still sell like hotcakes but even if they don't and they flop one after another they have more than enough of a safety net to even notice a big enough dent in their pocket to care
Why exactly are these prices "extortionate" when even this video shows that if you're upgrading over 2 more generations you're paying about as much as you should, considering you get new stuff like DLSS or RT?@@jimtsap04
@@jimtsap04they still need to remain competitive in the GPU market though. More likely will be that more focus is placed on these ML/AI markets, and supply of their gaming GPUs will be smaller as they transition away from them.
All depends on what NVIDIAs capacity is to meet demand.
Canada stay losing
It's not about a set number of generations before upgrading. I have a GTX 1080Ti that I came much closer to upgrading to the 3080 when it came out, than anything after that. I don't like to feel fleeced, and at 1440p the GTX1080ti is still a monster. I won't upgrade until I get a 600 USD card (what I paid for the GTX1080Ti) that doubles the framerate, which isn't much to ask when you're upgrading from a 2017 card, no?
A £500 AMD card would decimate that 1080ti by around 60%
I was gonna say, by now you can decimate the 1080ti with upgrades around that price range
1080Ti is equivalent to an RX 6600 these days
if your pressed for a new gpu then the 7800xt is probably the best value for you then. its offering around double the performance of the 1080 ti while being 100$ cheaper. for 10% more in performance the GRE is another good card. nvidia side of things they are offering terrible value in raw performance. the 4070 is 550 and is 10%+ slower than the 7800xt. they are pushing the ray tracing and have priced their products above AMDs. the ray tracinc is slightly better with nvidia too so its not like its a huge gain in RT. imo if you dont care from brand loyalty then upgrade to a 7000 series. we will never see a 600$ X080 or X090 again unless its used and old. 5-600$ is the the new mid range. unless there is some type of crash then i dont see it happening especially with them forcing the AI stuff.
I got a used RTX 3090, even an Asus ROG Strix model, for €600 which is in that price range. 250W power consumption at 1680MHz/0.731V, the frequency slighty under stock and reachable with any model.
Hi Tim,
awesome analysis, it really gave a great visualization to a feeling of lackluster products and too high prices. Id really love a high end analysis too since there expectations are even higher and small percentages can result in quite a lot of money.
And you already showed that the low to mid tier products are about 20% too expensive.
Love this video and data comparison. Would love to see the higher side of the market. Love your guy's channel. Keep up the great work.
1.5 years ago i found a small shop that was going bankrupt and he was selling most of his stuff for literally whatever prices
i got a 6700xt for 280 euros a 5700x for 210 32 gig ram for 68 euros
unfortunate that the only way you could get pc hardware for a reasonable price at the expense of a person's business but given the state of the pc hardware market back then nobody can blame you for taking advantage of that
@@jaketakenobreak technically it's not taking advantage, the shop owner chose to sacrifice his business and the guy honoured it
@@harrytarded7002 Technically saving the guy. If he didn't get to stuff sold he would be in way more troubl financially.
Your point is...?
@@OutOfNameIdeas2 yup
I would love a part 2 for the high end
Yes yes yes!
i dont think high-end user would actually care what the price really is or should be,
most of them buy first then check the price later!
@@KremsonKhanThat was so in the GTX era. I always buy a **80 Ti card for about 4-5 years and price totally matters. I have a 2080 Ti atm bought a couple months after launch, there was no point upgrading to 3080 Ti and the 40 series doesn't have one yet, but more importantly, the prices are absurd. I don't have high hopes for 50 series.
You forgot to observe that the highest end cards hold their value much better than they did in the past. I bought a 4090 last year for $1600 and just sold it for about the same right now, as I'm temporarily switching to 6950x before 50-series launch. I basically used a 4090 for free. You can easily buy and hold a xx90 card for a year or two and recoup most of your money ahead of the next launch. @@KremsonKhan
@@Zzzxx2As far as ordinary people are concerned 3000 series didn't exist though. All we could do is watch videos about them from people the AIBs sent the cards to. It doesn't matter to me anyway since I don't upgrade every generation.
Also: I'll complain about anything, just try me :P
The way you show (and thus sum up) the problem on these charts is great.
Thank you!
Amazing information, thanks for sharing this data and I would love to see other videos like this one!
With all these booms I simply forgot what a new good offering looks like.
Pretty cool research and graph work! Love to see it.
Great video! I would love to see the same type of video for the high end because prices get really interesting for the top end products, and that's also the market segment that I purchase from
Great video and a lot of good information here. This concept was well thought out and helpful. I'm down to see you do the same graphs for the high end/enthusiast cards as well.
One of your best videos! good work
Please make a next gen pricing video based on these calculations 🙏
Yes please! This will leave us better prepared, and even give them a suggestion already! Even if they ignore it, we would have done our part.
Next gen prising?
That is easy!
5060 96 bit memory bus $500
5070 128 bit memory bus $800
5070 ti 128 bit memory $999
5080 192 bit memory bus $1500
5090 256 bit memory bus $3000
That was easy!
Great Video, took me a bit to get the graphs but once I did it was really informative and entertaining - Definitely would love to see the higher end and a look at the coming generations!!
Great video! Thx Tim!
The visualization was a bit confusing and it felt rushed. I would like to ask for more videos like this, with more visualization, more time spent explaining the charts and less gpus focused on.
This current pricing of the GPU market is driving away from PC gaming and actually spend more time with family, friends and personal upskilling for work which is a good thing actually. I don't want to feel stressed and spend $1000 for a GPU that probably won't last 3 years if games are going to have really bad optimizations. The world has gone sideways and I guess I will take a step back and think what's best for myself. I hope PC gamers will too and hopefully that will force them to lower the prices down until the old norm again.
me looking at gtx 1050 gtx 1050ti and gtx 1650 and 1650 low profile second hand all at the same price, and higher then it was sold new...love Australia...
the new 3050 6gb is your only option atm, its at least under 200$ msrp
the performance is 1070/1660super)
Low profile are always expensive
This video was awesome! I would very much enjoy a high end video in this same format!
As a consumers we can send the message not buying at those prices. This would be nice to do with the CPU market as well
I needed an upgrade but wasn't happy with current gen prices, so I just bought used last gen. Best decision for me. Saved money and happy with the performance
I'm trying to do the same, but all the sellers around me want like 8-900 for 3080s and 1000-2000 for 3090s... its honestly laughable
@@shawnpepin7890 Something like ebay can be better than local marketplaces for sure
same shit happened with cars, just get something used so the manufacturers don't get any of your money (that's a plus) and you get a good deal.
@@solmariuce5303 buy used so the tax man doesn't take your money
Please do a prediction of what the 50 and 8000 series cards need to offer, that would be super interesting to compare when they actually hit shelves
Yes, I would like to see another video of this nature for the higher end video cards as I am in the "bubble" for purchasing one. I must admit that this was a rather well put video and I was truly amazed as to the outcome. Well done!!!
What a great video. Really well done on the math and explanation side. I need to make this type of analysis often for my engineering work and i am pretty sure i am going to use this format in future.
The GTX 1070 situation is PEAK nvidia rip of mentality back firing.
Everyone who had a 1070 saw how good the 3060ti was, saw that the 4060 ti is the same crap, and went and bought a used 3060ti for much cheaper, thus saving money.
Ngreedias next gen gpus will be made on the disappointwell architecture.
Nah!
Wewillripyouwell architecture!
nice analysis! I appreciate the work HUB!
I agree, though their reasoning of pricier production cost would be the counter from this ideal analysis
me as a consumer facing a market of duopoly business, operating costs are something they need to sweep first before making any retail steps
This is an an amazing video. Brilliant work sifting through all the data to get this information. Great journalism guys! Keep up the good work!!! 🔥🔥🔥
Really, the only people who should be buying the 3050 6 GB are those who are building on an extreme budged with something like an office pc that doesn't have any supplemental power, in that scenario, it's a great option, for EVERYTHING else, almost anything is better.
waste of money. just take ryzen with integreted graphics
@@Pachupp85And yet, the 3050 6 GB, as much as I hate to say it will give better performance than even a 8700G would give you. And, if you add in a dedicated GPU, the APUs lack of enough L3 cache will hamstring you later on. The only reason to go with an APU is if you're only going to do some light gaming. Yeah, the upgrade path is better with AM5, but you also can't build something for $300 with it either. So, on an extreme budget, buying a old Lenovo or other office PC, will give you more bang for your buck. If you've got $600 to build something with, then by all means, the APU route can work.
Got my Vega 56 for $240 in 2019, I've yet to find a better price/performance card with more and faster vram
7700 XT or 6700XT 12gb when they're being sold off maybe your upgrade path.
I got a Vega 64 back when it launched at below the price of a new Vega 56. That's still the best PC hardware purchase I've ever made. Card lasted up until late last year when i upgraded.
Excellent presentation! Love the data eccentric approach! Awesome work!!!
Awesome comparison, love the vid!
Is it safe to upgrade from the 1080Ti yet?
Only if you can afford 4060 Ti 16Gb or better, everything lower or older will be worse, especially DLSS 3 focused titles.
Nope
no, and i hate it.
I would say no, the 1080Ti is still fast enough to play most titles well IMO. Like baldurs gate, CS2. It runs fine with FSR/XeSS. You should really wait one more gen imo. You can still get like 100$ for those 1080ti's as well so factor that in to your next upgrade. I'd be looking at a 5070 (if it has at least 16GB or vram) or the equivalent AMD card in early 2025. Good luck.
yes, get the discounted 7900XT.
would buy a 4060ti - If it had a min 192bit bus and 16gb ram at about 300$ usd
problem is the standard 4060ti has 8bg ram 128bit bus at 440$ where its cheapest (my region)- thats a shit card at a shit price. not that anyone should buy a card with 8gb vram in 2024, thats just not enough anymore.
wow this is super informational for consumers!! can you do more of this kind of stuff with the other cards of that generation too please?
Great work, you guys should include this type of graph when reviewing a new release
Nvidia got greedy...
I’m afraid that this is an irreversible trend. Remember when the first $1000 smartphones got released and everyone on the internet said lol nope? Flagship phones are still $1000+ today and sells very well. I really really hope this is reversible for pc parts but I’m skeptical.
Overall smartphone market shipments declined for 27 months straight. iPhones are predicted to continue to decline even more this year. There are obviously people who buy expensive stuff, but is that enough to carry the company?
For Nvidia, they may not care. They have deep pockets paying for their chips. And they'll continue to dip into one pocket after another.
Yeah but a 1000€ smartphone lasts twice as long as a 500€ smartphone back in the day. Compare I dunno an iPhone 4 or 4S against a X. iPhone 4 was unusable after 2-3 years, iPhone X is still usable today even if it's not updated anymore. So in the end the "price per year used" has gone way down!
Yeah, even with a "price correction" with those "super" cards, they all still 5-10% overpriced to be a reasonable choice for upgrade even if we take in mind inflation. Nvidia don't care at all - they now get a lot of money from AI after miners in 2021-2022 and also from those, who decide to buy overpriced RTX4000 vanilla from the start. So they can release RTX5000 with a ridiculous pricing and don't care at all about desktop GPU market.
My s24 ultra is 1300 even 😂
@@marrow94facts
Appreciate the work that went into this analysis!
Provides a nice perspective for the debates the community has been having for the past year.
Thanks Tim, great info, please do the higher end models next.
So dont buy cards. Do you think prices will stay the same if lets say Nv sales drop even 40-50% for a month or two? A product cost is what people are willing to pay for it, nothing more and nothing less. If enough(from Nvidia and sellers point of view) people are ready to pay 2000-2500 for 4090 its going to cost 2000-2500.
Nvidia users don't understand common sense at this point, they're completely brainwashed exactly like apple users hence both companies can do whatever they want and their sheep will auto buy it
>A product cost is what people are willing to pay for it, nothing more and nothing less
This fallacy ignores that companies *all the time* price products incorrectly for their actual profit target. Too low demand, too high supply costs, too high demand, etc. Companies are run by imperfect supply-demand machines that only sometimes compete (which is the only incentive to decrease prices).
I don't think that would even hurt Nvidia, they're making too much from AI to care.
@@mspenelopyYes they do. Data center sales accounted for 80% (14.51 Billion) of the company’s revenue. You then break down the remaining 4ish billion and of that, around 1-1.5 Billion is switch sales so that leaves 2.5-3 Billion for PC GPUs. That’s barely 10% of the companies revenue. By the time you further break out laptop sales (where Nvidia dominates thanks to superior efficiency), desktop GPUs are a small fraction of total revenue.
Also these aren’t truly separate markets. If consumer GPUs like the 4080 and especially 4090 are too cheap it absolutely will cut into AI sales. They don’t want to hurt the golden goose for a small potential profit. As long as they have AI sales, nothing changes.
so we just wait for the next generation...
Someone still waiting since 1000 series, but it's only gets worse and more expensive, so people tends to stick with 1060/1080 Ti, trying the golden middle with 3060-12 or desperately going for 4060-8 or 4060 Ti-16 if they can afford it. No, it's will only gets worse, rumours about RTX 5070 are already saying it will be even more expensive and on the level with 4060, so...
get a used 3080 brro
I'm stretching my current cards life till 6060 and that'll be it till 3 gen later.
Next Generation we will pay a 1000 for a 70 class GPU.
@@Soddus. 3080 isn't so great with the 10GB VRAM.
The data was spot on mate . Keep it coming plz , very very interesting to visualize with these graphs what is in most ppl's minds. well done .
Please more of such videos! We need to voice our disappoval of those high prices!
As a corporate guy I would read it as "don't make too good products because that raises expectations".
Damn, algorithm knew exactly what I wanted to see. Never been this early before.
I had a GTX 1660 Super for about 5 years, and was so demoralized when I started looking to upgrade last year. I finally budged for an RX 7800 XT, and made the leap to 1440p gaming. It looks great, but the satisfaction of upgrading is pretty hollow after seeing my total build cost. The excitement has been sucked out of the hobby
Gr8 video !
How about a "power consumption @ video playback" (CZcams, Netflix, VLC etc.) comparison of current GPUs with updated drivers ?
* Emphasize on "video playback" as most people confuse it with idle or gaming consumption !
Every 10 generations is the sweet spot.
Lost interest in gaming due to inflated prices of these GPUs might as well spend my money on other things TBH.
The video on pricing I have been waiting for years. Great analysis thanks.
That's a clever way to analyze the price increase vs expectations. Thanks, that is enlightening!
but but, the shareholders needs another mansion to brag about - they need more stuff
F You Nvidia
- Linus Torvalds
Fantastic video. Could you please do a follow up with the 80/90/Titan class cards? Thanks in advance 😊
Really great video. Would have been cool to overlay what things currently cost vs what they should cost to really clearly visualize the price discrepancies
Yes, would love to see more videos about this sort of thing!
Really enjoyed the content. Please continue making similar videos in the future!
Thanks for sharing the insight. Would be great if you can make buying suggestion based on current pricing
the data work on this video is amazing, speaking as a BI Manager. Clear, concise, informative and just deep enough to be understandable but not overwhelming. Stellar work, Tim!
Exceptionally well made video... This really does put into perspective when you are actually doing a good purchase vs. a bad purchase.
Great video, really interesting data you provided 👍
Amazing video, crazy amount of work, well done!
I really liked this data and the graphs were great and easy to follow and understand.
So yeah, I'd want more if it isn't to much hassle, but you seemed to like diving down into this, and some interesting data came out of it. Although one would think that these companies would have already have this data, but if not, then you have definitely giving them something to think about in the future. One can only hope that this would make them see how things should have been.
I just think that the amount of research and work that has been done to put all this data to us once for all in a single video...
deserves a like, a comment, a share..and more! Well done and thank you.
One of your charts hit me right on the nose - I have an RX570 in one machine, a GTX1650 super in another, and an RX6600 in the newest one. That being said, I didn't pay those kind of prices for some of these cards. The GTX1650 super I got near the beginning of the crypto rush, and managed to get it for 180USD. The next year I got an RX6400 for 150USD to put in a rescued Dell Optiplex. Last year I got the RX6600 for 180 USD (only 10 more than I paid earlier that year for a GTX1650 oc). It's not easy, but sometimes you can get a deal - if you're patient and always on the lookout for it.
Very nicely done, Tim. I do enjoy a good data session! You should do the high-end GPUs too :D.
Just to toot my own horn for a minute - I did the same analysis last October and came to very similar conclusions when comparing RX 7000/RTX 4000 with RX6000 and RTX 3000; only problem was I shared my data with a different CZcams channel, not you guys, lesson learned there! For my high-end analysis, I concluded the following based on gaming performance compared to the RTX 3080 for NV and RX 6800 XT for AMD. IMO those two GPUs reset the expectation for what high end performance should provide. I did not account for AI/Compute applications of the higher end GPUs or extra cost for VRAM:
- RTX 4070 Ti /RX 7900 XT - ~$650
- RTX 4080 / RX 7900 XTX - ~$850
- RTX 4090 - ~$1100
I would also be interested in a similar analysis for CPUs, understanding that this would be more difficult with changes in chipset and platform, but I think it would be quite interesting and doable.
Would love to see this for the high end of the market and the idea of a video that would put into context expectations for future releases value/performance ratio would be a interesting video