HOI4 Guide - Production Cap VS Military Factory Output
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- čas přidán 18. 06. 2024
- #hoi4 #heartsofiron4
Now i can be somewhat more quick and easy to answer this question, is production cap better than factory output. There will be some statistics in the video so be warned, but i hope you enjoy it :)
First Graph:
We compare how much better Production Efficiency Cap is vs Factory Output. But it differs depending on how much Production Efficiency Cap you already have, and that difference is what the graph shows.
At the bottom/horizontal line you have the current Production Efficiency Cap of your nation.
At the left side/vertical line, you have the comparison on how much more total output you will gain by adding 1% in Production Efficiency Cap compared to gaining 1% extra Factory Output
If we are at 50% in Production Efficiency Cap and gain 1% extra, going to 51%, we will move one dot right in the dotted line in the middle and look at that.
That dot is at 196%. This means that 1% extra Production Efficiency Cap gives 96% more production output than 1% extra Factory Output.
What the line shows is that Production Efficiency Cap is really important in the beginning, being double as good as Factory Output. And as you are gaining more Production Efficiency Cap, factory output catches up but still at the end of the line at 100% Production Efficiency Cap, they are just as good as eachother 1% Cap is as good as 1% in Factory Output.
Last Three Graphs
We compare how much Total Output you will have between choosing to have 10% extra Production Efficiency Cap compared to 10% extra Factory Output, depending on how many days have gone by.
This will be different depending on your current Production Efficiency Cap and your current modifier on Factory Output, and therefore 3 different scenarios.
Total Output: (totalt amount of like infantry equipment you have produced until that day)
At the bottom/horizontal line you have days in game
At the left side/vertical line is a comparison on how much Total Output you will have by choosing 10%Production Efficiency Cap instead of 10% Factory Output
When the line hits 100%, you will have produced as much equipment with 10% Production Efficiency Cap compared to 10% Factory Output
Evertything after that is Production Efficiency Cap producing more
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0:00 Intro
0:28 How much totalt output 1% Production Efficiency Cap gives VS 1% Factory Output
3:08 Adding Time
3:42 Whats happening on the channel
4:03 How many days does it take for 10% Production Efficiency Cap giving more Total Output than 10% Factory Output, in three different scenarios
6:52 The End - Hry
First Graph:
We compare how much better Production Efficiency Cap is vs Factory Output. But it differs depending on how much Production Efficiency Cap you already have, and that difference is what the graph shows.
At the bottom/horizontal line you have the current Production Efficiency Cap of your nation.
At the left side/vertical line, you have the comparison on how much more total output you will gain by adding 1% in Production Efficiency Cap compared to gaining 1% extra Factory Output
If we are at 50% in Production Efficiency Cap and gain 1% extra, going to 51%, we will move one dot right in the dotted line in the middle and look at that.
That dot is at 196%. This means that 1% extra Production Efficiency Cap gives 96% more production output than 1% extra Factory Output.
What the line shows is that Production Efficiency Cap is really important in the beginning, being double as good as Factory Output. And as you are gaining more Production Efficiency Cap, factory output catches up but still at the end of the line at 100% Production Efficiency Cap, they are just as good as eachother 1% Cap is as good as 1% in Factory Output.
Last Three Graphs
We compare how much Total Output you will have between choosing to have 10% extra Production Efficiency Cap compared to 10% extra Factory Output, depending on how many days have gone by.
This will be different depending on your current Production Efficiency Cap and your current modifier on Factory Output, and therefore 3 different scenarios.
Total Output: (totalt amount of like infantry equipment you have produced until that day)
At the bottom/horizontal line you have days in game
At the left side/vertical line is a comparison on how much Total Output you will have by choosing 10%Production Efficiency Cap instead of 10% Factory Output
When the line hits 100%, you will have produced as much equipment with 10% Production Efficiency Cap compared to 10% Factory Output
Evertything after that is Production Efficiency Cap producing more
Ive had some questions about the graps and perhaps I compressed the video a bit too much, we want to deliver on the point and not drag things out. But graps are always tricky, so i posted some explanations here and in the description and i hope it will answer at least some of the questions that might come up.
//TheRealBoppus
Because this is a really interesting topic I will add some useless information for people interested.
In economics, you usually have a lot of variables in functions that are dependant on each other. For example, the Cobb Douglas production function is f(x,y)=(x^0.5)*(y^0.5). Here in this case, you could simplify the output as being x*y*n, where n is an array of (for us in this specific case) irrelevant information like the base output and current efficiency and x is the production efficiency cap and y is the factory output. If you want to maximise f(x,y) for x or y, you need to derive f(x,y). That would be in this case 1) fx(x,y)=n*y and 2) fy(x,y)=n*x (Partial derivatives for x and y). Because fx(x,y)=0 and fy(x,y)=0 (1st order conditions for maximum(minimum), n*y=n*x which means y=x. What does this mean now? If you want to maximise your (long-term) output, and you can chose between for example 5% output and 5% efficiency cap, you take the one that is lower initially. So if you have 50% output and 55% efficiency cap, you wanna increase output and vice versa.
This makes efficiency cap usually 'stronger' then output.
A small caveat here is the time though, as (as mentioned) the efficiency cap takes a while to fully "apply" to your production lines. Also remember that the factory output says +xx%. This means your actual factory output is xx%+100%, while your efficiency cap is actually the value it shows. This makes the real factory output basically always be bigger than the efficiency cap, so going for extra efficiency cap is in 99% of the cases better.
Nice Video, I always wondered how these two stats compared.
Yeah, i had an general idea but it was nice to actually get everything on calculated :)
//TheRealBoppus
I've been waiting on this
I hope you enjoyed it! :)
//TheRealBoppus
Thank you so much for this!
Nice to see you again Berserker, happy we can continue to serve!
//TheRealBoppus
I had some questions for next topic in land warfare, 1.) what is field officer division penalty? 2.) when having a regular army frontline, when you press alt and hover over it says 'press right click to begin free drawing of the advancement arrow' how to actually use this? 3.) how to get good leaders when your commanders are kind of bad, can they be promoted from field officer divisions and what happens to the supply reduction medals that the division had whose commander was promoted?
Thanks for the comment and all of the suggestions, i will take them all under consideration for upcoming videos :)
//TheRealBoppus
Nice video! Maybe im just being dull as hell can you explain to me how exactly 50- 51% production output is worse than 0-1%? Like I get the increase is smaller proportional to the original value, but output produces equipment linearly, so an extra 1% will still produce (eg) 1 extra gun per day regardless of the original value. Or am I wrong on this?
Thanks for the great question, this are really tricky calculations and a lot to keep in mind.
Its not worse in its own, as you say, the first percentage point gives as much extra as the last. But in every graph it is a comparison to changes in Production Cap.
So going from 150% factory output to 151% is a 0,67% increase of total output.
Having 150% factory output and going from 50% to 51% in production cap is a 2% extra total output.
So in comparison to an increase in production cap, it gets less valuable.
Does it make more sense, otherwise I’ll try again :)
//TheRealBoppus
@hyggegaming no that's a great explanation, thank you! Got it, it's not either on its own but production cap as a function of factory output, correct?
@@KCmasterpiece2 No, production efficiency in itself isnt that important here. The efficiency cap is basically how high your efficiency can be when its maxed out.
If you wanna calculate the production output in IC terms (with the current Efficiency of the production line being the efficiency cap) it is f=BaseOutput*(1+Factoryoutput)*EfficiencyCap. So if you have on your production tab a +60% Factory output and 70% cap, your output is the Base Output (I think its 5) multiplied by Factoryoutput+1 multiplied by Efficiency Cap so f=5*(1+60%)*70%=5*1.6*0.7.
The reason why a 10% increase is more when the base was 100% then when the base was 1% is that it is in nominal terms. So if you go from 1% to 10%, your output increases by 9x. If you go from 100% to 110% your output increases only by 0.1x. Theoretically, Paradox could also say your current Efficiency Cap increases by 10% so if youre at 50% it becomes 55% and if youre at 100% it becomes 110%. That would then make the increases linear, because relatively the changes are the same, but nominally they arent.
An example to why it works like this is labor. Imagine you have a company with a work force consisting of 1 guy. If you hire 1 more worker, your output could double. If you already have 100 workers and get another one, your output wont double, it will only increase by 1% (obviously if there are economies/deconomies of scale at play its gonna be different :) )
bro out here lookin like Nikolai Bulganin
Is that a….. compliment? :)
//TheRealBoppus
i dont get it none of the graphs of really compare the stats proper with each other , u just throw around % numbers not really comparing the impact on the game that both of this stats do, like there is zero info in those graphs
you should answer questions like
what is worth getting first ?
what do "meta" players do and why ?
How can i produce the most IC in a certain time span with using the industrie tec ?
you should also explain how efficency gain work to actually explain what is better
i also recomend if you compare 2 stats which each other but them in the same graphic view much better for the viewer,
Like in the guide to concentrated vs dispersed you give a lot of info without really explaining the effect on the game and tbf this is one of the worst guides to this subject out there
I'm certainly not a expert on this but i will explain this the best i can from my understanding of the game after 3k hours, every bullet point is for a question:
- (Question 4) It important i answer this one first since Production Efficiency is just a flexible percentage number that slowly go up as the production line get more efficient at making those equipment, you can see it as the factory worker getting more skillful at making said equipment over the time producing it.
There 3 important factor when talking about Production Efficiency:
+ Production Growth: How fast your efficiency increases
+ Production Cap: The maximum efficiency you can achieve
+ Production Retention: How much of the efficiency bar you maintain when you switch production
All 3 are important depending on the nation you play.
- (Question 1) Production Cap (PC) is worth getting first since there will alway be equipment that you will almost never upgrade and keep a steady supply going
- (Question 2) "Meta" is very relative since it depend on what nation you playing and what built you run, both PC and Factory Output (FO) is worth it depend on the build you going for.
Example: Germany in MP will prefer to not upgrade their infantry tech pass 1939 because they would need to retain the production efficiency for more consistent production number.
If you however in need of equipment fast, FO is better because it a instant %+ on your current production number whereas PC only increase the maximum amount of gun you can make once you read that point. If someone have to choice between FO or PC, i say FO is the more reasonable option to pick since it not often you reach the efficiency cap since you switch equipment often during game.
- (Question 3): If you want the most amount of equipment of only one type then go for concentrated industry, you just be making one type of equipment for the rest of the game, you get alot of gun but isn't as good as later tier equipment. Dispersed industry is the meta option since even though you get make less equipment overall, you can make more modern equipment when you switch them over compare to when you using concentrated industry. Simply put, Dispersed industry allow you to keep more efficiency when you switch to a different equipment = you can make more of it right after you switch and can use it faster.
P.S this guide answer exactly what it set out to answer, "Production Cap VS Military Factory Output"
- Production cap is better early game because you not at war, waiting for it to increase doesn't matter much
- Factory output is better late game because the time it take for PC to catch up to FO is far too long, making PC not worth it. The instant boost to FO is better.
- Compare a increase of 10% PC vs 10% FO, the different is minimal but it lean through FO because it more instant.
@@spookyengie735 You should always increase efficiency cap. Factory output starts at +100%, and in like 1938 the avg is like 170-180%. You can proof mathematically (i did so in a comment earlier) that you always increase the thing thats lower, and as efficiency cap starts at 50% you should never go for 10% output over 10% cap.
@@epiclighthd7655 Yes i agree but it depend on the playstyle i mention before.
I personally go for cap since i play well past 1960. I don't upgrade my tech in MP too often because i want to cap out my production so i can get more divisions, in SP i tend to go for factory output in short game where i rush thing, i change equipment too often for cap to be effective.
@@spookyengie735 I get that but if you compare 10% cap and 10% output, the efficiency cap cumulative IC will have caught up after a few weeks. As I said, people tend to accidentally mix up factory output and +factory output. If you start at 50% cap and 100% output, you need 20% output to match 10% cap though. So there's basically no reason ever to go for the same amount of output as cap, unless you need like an extra 10 guns in the next 20 days or smth.