HOI4 Guide - Concentrated VS Dispersed Industry
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- čas přidán 18. 06. 2024
- #hoi4 #heartsofiron4
So what should i choose and why, this wont give you the easy answer because in HOI4, things usually get complicated quickly. But you will probalby be able to decide for yourself after seeing this video. And also understand production efficiency retention :)
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0:00 Intro and no quick answer this time
1:15 Whats the difference
2:00 Production Efficiancy Retention
5:34 Concentrated dont give 25% MORE output than Dispersed
7:15 Just info about the Channel
7:49 Production Efficiancy Base
8:17 Base vs Output in new Military Factories
9:14 What does the Epic Calculator say
9:57 Factory Bomb Reduction
10:46 Conclusions
15:29 Advise to newcomers to the game
15:50 Outro - Hry
I would agree that Dispersed is way more beginner friendly as you can correct mistakes more easily. Or if want to do some things spontaneously.
To optimise the benefits of Concentrated you would need to have the production pretty much pre planned for the entire game.
I’ve played Soviet a lot of times in MP and in the TFB mod, where you have even more equipment with only one version, like radios and horse equipment. There concentrated really pays off since i can put like 70% of my starting industries on non-upgradable equipment. I realise i need to play Soviet soon, last time was in our live LAN, Bergagårdhof, like 6 months ago :)
//TheRealBoppus
see this is the content we need
Many thanks, if there is something you want us to do next, just write suggestions in the comment section and we’ll see what we can do :)
//TheRealBoppus
Great video. I always knew to use dispersed but never knew why..
I just break it down into: Will I get bombed a lot during the game? If yes, dispersed industry, If not, Concentrated industry
Wrong its: Long game? (Disp.) Short? (Conc.) Like if you play poland or Finland you go conc. Russia germany you go disp.
Yeah basically, perhaps with some exeptions mentioned in the video :)
//TheRealBoppus
You can go dispersed first and then change to concentrated when you are producing the last equipment using the tech sharing focus around 1943-1944. This is only for some contries.
I did dispersed when I first began playing, mostly since at first glance it looked like the bonuses are way better "Oh +5% is all concentrated offers? That's nothing." then when I figured out how things work I swapped to concentrated.
Yeah, those 5% per research is really powerful!
//TheRealBoppus
I came back to Hoi4 after a long break, so I decided to review the basics and I am so glad to find this video.
To be fair game description really doesn't explain that, but I was so wrong about it.
Your channel is criminally underrated, sub!
Tanks a lot for the comment, im really glad you enjoy our channel :)
//TheRealBoppus
Just got your micro guide recommended and have been bingeing your videos. Great stuff!
Amazing, really happy to have you here! We are starting to get quite the library now :) And if you run of guide out we also have our live MP games, and even Patreon if you want even more :)
//TheRealBoppus
Wow! Thanks for this video! I completely misinterpreted production efficiency base and never really understood production efficiency retention. This puts concentrated industry in a new light. Strange though that you recommended dispersed industry for the US. Your reasoning is sound, but they face no bombing threat and historically had huge super-concentrated factories.
The ai dont even bomb your factories effectively. mostly just infrastrucutre and railways
Thanks for the comment, retention is one of those things most players dont really pay attention to, you get somewhat a feel to what it should be and then settle. But this is one thing i love about this game, all these smart mechanics that actually make sense and you have the possibility to find out :)
//TheRealBoppus
Yeah, i think it’s most valuable in multiplayer, and in special cases.
//TheRealBoppus
very good content man.keep it up💪🏿
Thanks, we’ll keep em rolling every monday :)
//TheRealBoppus
good vid mate, have a sub. have a little over 6k hours in hoi and always like to see small channels stepping into the scene
Welcome to the channel and thanks for that :)
It's too bad it would be abused, but it would be nice if concentrated gave you more Max Factories in a State or if it gave a decision to use consumer goods for a couple months to add more space in a random state.
Another great video. Thanks guys
Thanks again Mike, i hope we’ll see you at our next live game, i hear things are brewing at that front :)
//TheRealBoppus
This is one of the most common questions you hear in multiplayer lobbies. I pretty much always use dispersed cus I always hate seeing the effincy plummeting when I switch tank/airplane chassies. This was very informative, I might go concentrated next game!
I have a question tho; How does efficiency compare to factory output? Can you make a video where you show how these 2 production stats compare? Like for example: Should you go for 10% efficiency cap (efficiency would be measured at max) or 15% factory output? That would be interasting to examine.
Thanks! When i was making this video i added just that idea to the list. Ive learned to get quite a good feel for it in game, and production cap is more valuable early game.
But with that said, i want to make a video with some charts on this. It might even be my next release in two weeks.
//TheRealBoppus
stick to dispursed. concentrated will produce more then dispursed after some years, but by that point dispursed still is ahead, because it already built up a significantly bigger stockpile.
Always go for effiency cap first as it takes time to ramp up and increases the gain of daily effiency .
Both stats work / scale with each other .
daily Factory output in IC = prod. efficiency(base is 100% ) * factory output (base also 100%) * IC out per factory (base 4.5IC per day (static number))
Example with numbers (for all 39 tool and concentrated industry tecs)
FO = (100% + 10% +10%+ 10% ) * (100% + 15% +15% + 15% ) *4.5 IC = ~202,42 % * 4.5 = 9,109 IC
Great video. Thank you.
Thanks mate! :)
//TheRealBoppus
In short DIspersed Industry is the better choice in 95% of the cases, but Concentraded can be benificial in some cases.
To compare the Industries against each other you have to define some parameter as the the total IC produced, timeframe , the timing of gaining the IC , influence on upgrading to newer tec , the nations you play and the amont of factories they have and build during the game.
First of all you have to understand that each factory works as its own entity , that mean each factory has his own production efficency value that needs time to ramp up to full effiency. This even applies to grouped factories in the production menu ,each will have there own Prod eff value (Some mods like TFB change this).At the start of the game some mils on certain equipment start with full efficency , those starting mils are really great for early output.
The daily output of an factory is defined as production effiency * Factory output. As dispert Industry has a higher base effiency the daily output of the first days will be higher than of concentrated. This means if you would draw an graph (Total IC / Time ) The line of Dispersed will start taking the lead and will be over taken by Concentrated at some point ,this point is reached at over 1000 days, which means unless you intent to produce the same Equipment for over 2 and half years , dispersed is better.(this is for newly build mils , not starting mils)(i can ask a member of our community to share his spreadsheat for this for exact numbers ).
For the starting mils concentrated is good as they already have full efficency on most equipment ,yet for newly build mils dispersed is usally better unless you never want to change your production.
Also if you start producing never equipment than because you start with higher base efficency means that you will gain better equipment more quickly , you rather have 100 fighter now than 125 a year later. With time the number of mils increases so the value of IC decreases , 5000 medium tanks are a lot in 39 but in 42 you will laugh about that number.
About the nations you play.
Germany for example needs a strong army to take over europe and so needs early production (benefits dispers.) ,aswell as you take europe u will gain a lot of new factories (benefits dispers.) , this is the reason why in meta games you will always see dispersed germany .
USA : u gain a lot mils relativ late so you wanna use them with a lot of efficency -> dispersed USA.
Soviet (hist): U have a lot of boni to efficency cap (benefits higher factorie output(concetrated) , u will not attacked till 41 and rarely switch production (usally stays on Gun2 and 1 typ of tank ) (benefits Concetrated)-> Concentraded Soviet.
Concentrated is good for nations that spam one type of Equipment over a long time not even upgrading it as it gets older (Gun 2 spam raj e.q.).
Remember IC inflates over time and at some point gets pointless (every Airport full, Combat width filled) and doesnt "scale" into the late game as much as people think , the most important IC is early IC and there Dispersed is King.
Civilian factory Civilian factories: Used for construction of all kinds (including repair), trade, consumer goods, and Intelligence agencies and their upgrades. These have a base output of 5 industrial capacity.
Military factory Military factories: Produces infantry equipment, transport, artillery, armor, and aircraft. These have a base output of Production cost. 4.50 per day. This value is then multiplied by factory output modifiers and by Production efficiency.
If you want more civs, better repairs and make others things concentrated is better.
The only scenario where dispersed is better is the case when you conquer a lot of mils in a small amount of time OR you already have a lot of civs and will now make mills.
@@borali26 you know that the industy tec only count for mils and not for civs ,meaning it doesnt help u with repair and building at all
@@nausimur6035 I found this info in hoi4 wiki
@@borali26 wiki is wrong in that , ingame it does not give any bonus towards construction of building by civs
@@nausimur6035
I found that if I want constantly updated gear, dispersed is better. Concentrated only gives an advantage if you keep building outdated gear or if you are still going on towards 1950 which is when the outcome is already decided.
Usually you build stuff for a couple of years before the next one is available, the factory output will have given you more in total than the base and retention gives you. But thats my take on it :)
//TheRealBoppus
@@hyggegaming Fair enough, it's more for when I update modules on the same tank or plane chassis for example. Less incentive for it if the country needs stuff without separate components like infantry equipment which has bigger gaps between updates.
Great video! However I'd like to give some context on your argument about going concentrated with the USSR: They start a very weakened airforce, so they're likely to get bombed by the Germans, so going dispersed is recommended for that reason. But even more: the 5-year plan, and a focus which name I forgot :P, both give a negative 10% efficiëncy growth, so they suffer even more from the lower efficiëncy caused by concentrated. Sure, your trucks and support equipment might be at full efficiëncy, but your (newer) inf. equipment, tanks, aircraft and everything else will struggle to get at reasonable levels anytime soon. So especially with USSR, I'd always go dispersed
Thanks :)
Fair points, as always, it depends on how you play and what you go for buildwise and where you build your new industry. I would not say that dispersed is bad as the Soviets, but id still go concentrated :)
//TheRealBoppus
Glorious video
Thanks again Berserker! :)
Btw, since you are so active; have you checked out our patreon page? :)
I'm sorry my real life economy build wasn't optimal or close to meta at all
With concentrated, by the time you get to '40-'41 with a major where you'd be on the lvl4 tech, equipment is no longer a problem and the utility is lower. I never use concentrated.
How come does paradox keep Cities skylines description on everything very simple and clear to understand and yet this one an absolutely incomprehensible in almost every way possible
Different developers. Cities Skylines is developed by Colossal Order but published by Paradox, whereas HOI4 is developed and published by Paradox themselves. Now Paradox does own Colossal Order but the developer teams are different.
I would say thats the case of most Paradox developed games :) With HOI4 there is also a lot of depth to it, its both a good economy simulator and at the same time have three big different systems for combat and a lot of smaller ones. So knowing landbattle gives you almost nothing when trying to understanding air and naval since the systems are totally different. So i guess the scale of it all and all interactions makes it hard to tool-tip everything.
And honestly, I think the developers like that the game are a bit mysterious:)
//TheRealBoppus
Thats a good take on it!
//TheRealBoppus
its based on what country you are playing for disp or conc to be optimal however on most countries conc is better than dispersed
What about like Basic Medium Tank Chasis to Advanced? Would that be direct upgrade?
no, because the only difference is reliability (doesn't matter if you micro properly), armour which also doesn't matter in sp because the ai doesn't really build anti tank doesn't matter in mp either due to player tanks, the final difference is a bit of speed, which also is pointless because your capped to 8kmh because of mechanized
so all in all, never go beyond the basic chassis
@@BobbiusRossius I think his question was in regard to keeping the 30% efficiency and I.. think so? Going from a 1938 model to 1943 should be considered a direct upgrade, right? In terms of keeping 30% efficiency base + your retention bonus
@@yagovmolotov5127 You never want to switch your production line on tanks, even with dispersed you lose so much production eff its not even worth it
And yes, in theory the 38 to 43 should be better, but its not
Can you do a video about" should we do roads first before factoryes or start directly with civs?
Hello!
I think i already have, check out this one
HOI4 Guide - New Infrastructure Meta
czcams.com/video/ZbUvUolkHJM/video.html
@@hyggegaming ty bro subscribed!
I for no reason at all go for disp.
I Just got used to it, now its muscle memory for me to pick disp
You need to rely on muscle memory in HOI4, if you start thinking about everything you will never finish a campaign :)
//TheRealBoppus
Only produce equipment level 2 = concentrated. Anything else = dispersed
I always felt that concentrated was better despite all the vanilla youtubers always choosing dispersed. Here is the proof
Its not easy analyzing these things, i have gotten a lot of things wrong in my years :)
//TheRealBoppus
ah I did everything wrong 😄
Haha, i feel you, i got the same feeling when Badger showed me his naval game in our last game, when he utterly destoryed my hopes in the pacific ocean :)
//TheRealBoppus
I absolutely do not get your conclusions here. Is the base for most of them that you're engaging in multiplayer?
If you look at it from a singleplayer perspective (historical AI) you have fixed timeframes for your build up to maximize production so none of these 'being reactive or active' arguments count. Also the advantage of concentrated on a higher base of starting mils is obvious as you mentioned but it is completely washed away the moment you switch your entire production from infra/civs to mils as you usually do.
Mostly you start building mils roughly two years or less before you enter the war. Nevertheless that doesn't mean concentrated will catch up to the higher base of dispersed after these two years simply because you build almost half of these factories less than a year before the war.
If concentrated is good anywhere it is on countries like the ussr which can get an absurd effieciency cap (which is a key factor you didn't mention). Having a cap of e.g. 140% turns the relative bonus of those 16.7% more concentrated output into a much higher absolute amount of equipment compared to countires that are stuck on caps below 100% for example.