Geek Out: Everything you never wanted to know about electronic motorcycle suspension
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
- In today's video (anoraks at the ready):
00:00 - Intro
00:49 - Strapping down with electronic suspension
02:54 - What's suspension supposed to do?
04:15 - The perfect motorcycle
06:04 - Why your bike is flawed
06:53 - Mechanically adjustable suspension
07:40 - Electronic suspension is the answer
12:25 - Electronic suspension set-up
14:51 - A year racing a BMW HP4 with electronic suspension
21:51 - What we've learned - Auta a dopravní prostředky
![[2/2] Motorbike acceleration explained: HOW to RIDE FAST? - Track racing tutorial](/img/n.gif)
So true. I took my then new Monster 821 to H&M Racing in Edenbridge, after they were recommended for suspension work. The difference in having suspension set up correctly for your weight and riding, as Neevesy says, is amazing. H&M measured me and the bike, changed springs for my weight, and set up all the adjustable twiddly bits to suit. It was like witch craft, the bike transformed. It became sharper, crisper, provided more feel, confidence, and ultimately felt way more fun and enjoyable. I wonder why brands like Ducati don’t offer suspension set up as a cost option when you’re ordering? It is transformational when done properly and I feel you get to experience the true character of your bike and it's design.
Setting up suspension properly is all well and good, but if the factory fitted items are poor quality, then you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Nothing will ever beat having a reputable suspension manufacturer to produce something specially for you and your bike. It's like night and day. Otherwise, you're just fiddling around the edges.
Learned so much! We live in the glory days of motorcycling. Great suspensions, tires, electronic aides. Appreciate the engineers and designers who have made this all possible. We are blessed.
Thanks Neevesy, this video proves that one anorak fits all.. 😂
Ahhhh yeah. That was an awesome video! Right up my alley. Im working on opening up a suspension shop myself after 10 years in the dealers. You've given me motivation over the years to spread the gosple of dialed suspension on our bikes! Thanks for elevating our community and industry. Motorcycling thanks you. 👍You're the man 👌
All of my bikes within the last 10 years have had uprated suspension, Generally ohlins, and set up for me. Just had my Harley softail done, best investment and much better than any other modification to the bikes (along with appropriate tyres)
Loved the video! About the s1000rr, (manual suspension with electronic controls) I just sold mine (2022) because, after changing the spring and adding the damping sensor (alpha racing) and spending hours and hours adjusting and testing I concluded the suspension is just rubbish!!!! On the other hand I REALLY LOVE the electronic suspension (semi active) on my FIREBLADE sp. It's great for the road... Thanks for yours talks. It's great to listen to you, somebody really knowlegeable and that knows what he is talking about. Thank you.
I would add "balance" as well.....good suspension is that ....😊
Springs are for the weight of the bike and rider......the valving is for the dampening of the componets is the easiest way explained to me to look at it.....
Went down the suspension rabbit hole racing MX and it is absolutely transforming to a machine.....wont even feel like same bike its that big of a change
The best you know is the best youve ridden
So true. Get the suspension right from the beginning. Don't wait, just do it. My body weight is 67KG, I couldn't get my bike to work properly. It's a Speed Triple 1200 RS.
I know why I bought my Ohlins they sent me 2 springs for the rear and 9.0,9.5,10.0 two of each of those and you can mix and match them to get the perfect feel for you
This was lovely, neevesy! Thank you so much for us geeks :) the reliability and "quick to get in there and change things/fix it" is probably the most important takeaway for those who want a simpler system that is less strenuous to troubleshoot. The older I get, and the more I ride, the simpler i want my bike to be. I'd rather have it be simpler, than have to wait for months for complex parts, or just have the dealer raise their hands in the air when a complex one arises.
Bring more videos like this,we pleased to hear your experience on track and roads.❤
I think it could have been mentioned that some - if not most - electronic suspensions have a manual mode as well. Back then following the dealership mechanic's advise I went to the track using the automatic mode which I instantly turned to manual after one session. And until the forks were not properly filled up with oil and set by a suspension specialist, the bike never really felt great suspension-wise. After it was a dream to ride on street or track. But Ducati could give a V4S with properly working suspension from the showroom floor for the fortune they ask for it...
When watching this types of videos feels like in school again, in a good way.
Would be nice if you could do something simmilar for tyers .
Keep up the good work
All fascinating stuff. Fantastic insight into the function, workings, and overall importance of proper suspension. Geek out! Thanks, Neevesy!!
I can see the passion in your face and that’s why we love Neevesy!! He’s the GOAT
This video is pure gold, thank you for making it! You answered many of my questions that I didn't even know how to ask.
The question of whether preload adjusts the spring rate or not came up today in a Facebook group. Since I've watched this video I knew the answer. It was very insightful to share that changing the preload doesn't change the spring rate. To be fair having thought about it. Yes it makes sense. That is why these videos are such gems. Small little details. Like the one where you suggested to bend the inside arm. Unbelievable what a difference just that made to my cornering. And it's easy to remember and do and make a big difference. You should have way more followers. But then I guess because you don't review bikes on this channel that is why. Obviously I know you review bikes on mcn channel which is great.
Thanks. Great explanation as always. Loving the content on your channel. Take care.
Top quality content as always Neevesy
Enjoyed that. Thanks for making it.
I think tyres is a subject that you have vast experience in and would be useful in this style of vid. :)
First bike I’ve owned with electronic suspension and for me it really is a step up in comfort and handling I think it’s great for the average road rider, 9 step adjustment on the damping + the pre set rider modes (Tiger 1200 GT pro). Enjoyed this one thanks Mr N 👍
Very interesting and informative. Spot on Michael. 👍
Loving the nerding-out! 🥰🙏
Learned a lot! Thanks, Neevesy!
Brilliant video! I'm a lot more wiser after listening to this!!
Neevesy - the person you'd most like to be stuck in a lift with and the least in a Karaoke box.
(Great summary of a topic, I'd paid little attention to, thanks)
No rubbish man. All good info.
Need to dial mine in with my V4S, great video!
Hi Neevesy great video, I just found your channel, always been watching you on MCN. Can you make a video on the MT10 SP's suspension and what what does like acceleration support, cornering support, and etc.? Thanks
Great info. Thanks Mike!
Why don't OEM's offer factory aftermarket springs for riders based on their weight? They could put it on their Website in the specs or accessories section. Sounds like a no-brainer to generate a bit of extra revenue.
I enjoyed that, one of the most amazing things i love about my Gen 1 MT10SP is the suspension, for the road its just absolutely amazing. I spent a decent amount of time playing with it and finetuning it for the different modes, one thing thats great for our Australian road here that are not that good is being able to have a softer setting when the roads are really bad yet then being able to switch it to the harder setting when the corners are good. I use the 2 auto setting so they can adapt to the road conditions, such an amazing one bike garage.
Excellent, thanks so much!
Great article again. I have a multistrada 1200 pp 14 year model. With Sachs sky hook love it just so good on uk roads plus two up and loaded and fully adjustable. Plus if get setting wrong just do factory reset.
Funny I was just wondering about shipping an R1M I recently bought and was a smidge worried about the battery getting drained due to the semi active suspension. I had heard somewhere that that would happen. I live in Hawaii so the bike will be strapped down tight on a skid. Thanks for clearing that up and for all the other info too.
Another corker Michael, thanks for posting ❤
thanks for this neevesy, in feb'15 bought 3rd gen at pk lane, an not much info out there, after a 3 yr lay off in spain this yr, I went from 4 to group 1, and reckon that's me out
still, appreciate knowledge 😌
Just what I needed to know about EC Suspension for racing use. I currently own a 2016 RSV4 with full Ohlins Suspensions (TTX GP and NIX fork) but I'm going to switch to a 2021+ RSV4 Model. My doubts were Factory or the standard model and switch my current Suspension. I race in the International Dutch Championship and have been promoted to the Superbike class for 2024 so I need the extra power for my 98kg and 1,91length.
Wasn't a waste of time at all. Very valuable indeed!
So interesting to hear the pros an cons. Especially without any electronic suspension experience on my side. Would love to try one.
Regarding tires, so true what you say, it's like the number one thing on any bike.
I'm in love with the Bridgestone S22s. They suit perfectly my 600 supersport bikes but they don't last at all, fantastic grip, control and feedback from them but the rear does 6K and the front 5K kilometers at best, on a 100 Hp bike.
So this wasn't good enough for me and opted for sports touring tires on my K5 600 and this is still grippy enough on the road and it's perfect for commuting, with various weather scenarios, and they do the mileage too. 15K kilometers no problem with them. It is so much more economical, considering that I ride 20 000km plus /year..
Great talk Neevsey, as always. In a similar vein, it would be interesting to hear about your riding style with and without electronic rider aids - especially imu driven. Cheers!
I am slowly starting to understand that all three of my bikes would benefit from new springs! 💰💰💰
Thank you!
Great vid, thanks, how aharing your knowledge on exhaust systems, with so many about, and knock offs all over the place. Would love to hear your views.
That was a very interesting little chat. 👍 Sag being perhaps the first thing to set, could you switch the electronic suspension to manual (SP2) and set sag with the ignition on and then switch back to dynamic? First track day on my bike this week - slightly terrified… 😂 I might have found a nice SportClassic as well… 😉 Thanks for taking the time to do these videos - I’m finding them very enjoyable and get unreasonably excited when a notification pops up. We are the same generation, so when you go back through those old MCN issues it takes me back to some great days and looking forward to picking up my MCN each week back then, while dreaming of getting a 916 (I still haven’t got one - maybe if/when I get rid of the SP2). 👍
Class these vids mate 😎😎😎😎😎
Surprised to hear you say the HP4 is or was a better bike
Wish you had explained a bit more very very interesting comment 😁👍
Apart from the fact I nearly bought a one but got a gen3
18 plate instead which I loved
But after a few years bought a brand new gen 4 which I’m still not sure if I did the rite thing selling my gen3 🤷♂️😂😂😂
Gen3 was like a hammer fast but brutal gen4 is more like a surgical hammer 😂😂😂much quicker steering and sharper all round in my humble opinion 😁👍🤷♂️
Keep the vids coming loving all the content 😎👌
Not wasted time. Interesting time !!
Nile Rogers will be along shortly for his royalties 😂 2:53
Great thanks. It would be good to hear the same about traction control and how it works from basic ones with wheels sensors and others with an IMU? Pro and cons, do they stop wheelies or help them and best manufacturers traction control
Talking of geeky questions.. Lots of riders fit aftermarket exhaust slip on’s, when they do they often remove the exhaust gas control valve and fit an Exhaust Servo Eliminator to fool the engine management system into thinking that the exhaust servo and valve are still present. What i want to know is the following - does removing the exhaust valve reduce low end torque or power? I understand that for some bikes (KTM SDR Gen3) the valve specifically increases the exhaust back pressure at low revs in order to increase low end grunt. So what is the impact on the bike of removing theses valves and fitting an ESE module please can you help? Love this series by the way - you are the best bike journo by miles.
Great, fantastic series
Can you geek out another time and explain how traction control interventions work
Very interesting vid. I've no doubt electronic suspension is great & it's definitely the future, but I just prefer the feel of using & adjusting manual suspension. I'm also always left wondering if I have it in the right / best modes & settings etc & ultimately realise I just don't know what I don't know! If you fancy a geek out how about the different ways manufacturers tackle the ever tightening emission regs.
thanks 👍
Another superb video that was a really interesting watch thanks! I’ve never ridden a bike with electronic suspension though I can absolutely appreciate how it would be such a step up in performance and ease of set up - especially for competitive use - I’m so surprised that they don’t actually use it at the TT! I mean that is THE biggest test for any road derived competition machine or technology! Is it purely a reliability issue? - I mean in your specific case you could weld or beef up the the battery terminal connections for absolute security - or is it a hangover of “we know how mechanical works so we’ll stick with it” mentality? Would love to hear your thoughts 🙂👍🏻
I got my spanners out to do basic preload adjustment on my ohlins ec2, then i put them away again. I think i did right all things considered.
Been watching your videos and reviews for 15 years, you're one of my motorcycle heroes.
I have a '21MT09 SP and a '22 S1000RR M package and the Marzocchi electronic suspension on the RR doesn't seem as confidence inspiring as the KYB/Ohlins on the MT09. I'm going to order the alpha racing 2D sensor for RR in hopes that'll help me sort out the suspension. Maybe I need to adjust the preload on the front, its difficult to tell.
I have found using a Race Pro Riding Mode and setting up 'manual' suspension has greatly improved the bikes handling & general ridability, even while I'm still trying to 'dial it in'. Setting the power to full also 'removed' the cr4ppy clutch feel when pulling away from a standstill - feels like a normal bike again. HTH...
@@ganxie3156 I do ride it in race pro mode. I think I'll adjust the front preload and test how it feels. Currently have the front compression and rear compression set to 5 and rear rebound set to 6. I think adding the alpha racing 2D sensor to unlock front rebound will help greatly on the front end feel.
Another brilliant and informative video Neevsey, How electronic sussies have their limitations and that mechanical suspension ultimately the best for adjustment to you personal requirements so I'm curious to know, do you think other electronic aids ie abs, TC etc have there limitations (drawbacks) compared to a analogue bikes? Cheers Trev.
Woohoo! Suspension geek out
Fantastic coincidence! You must have been channeling the question I have been trying to ask. Recent returner to bikes so complete novice with electronics. A year or so back and have just started to try and improve things with my semi active set up on a Versys 1000. Just added about 10-20% preload to aid with my chunky stature (20 stone these days!!!) and then upped the damping and rebound to suit increased boinginess. I know you can't answer questions in the comments but, sound about right? You have given me some valuable insights so thanks anyway. My main point of confusion is if I use the "Rider Mode" which I have adjusted, does that 'fix' the suspension at those settings and disengage the on the go electronic adjustment of the regular modes?
Another No1.
Hi Neevie,
I own a 2003 CB1300 a really nice low mileage bike, it suits me im a big bloke 6ft2in yes its a little sedate but it pulls really well and I've grown to love it.
Obviously the suspension is 20 years old and im thinking of spending some money on Ohlins rear shocks possibly putting some 25mm extensions on for slightly quicker turning, plus fitting Andreani fork cartridges any thoughts please, also if I put a 1 tooth smaller cog on the front will it through out the speedo,
Thanks for all the tips David Rutherford
Thanks as always for the great vids! I have a question around tyres.
Having only used Pirelli Rosso Corsa or Supercorsa on every bike I’ve had, I put a set of S22s following on my 18 Blade after the OE Dunlops we’re gone. I found the S22s didn’t really feel ‘rounded’ enough and the bike felt like it didn’t want to tip in. I’ve now got a 96 VFR750 with a Fireblade front end that I’m morphing into a ‘retro racer’ and I need to decide on tyres. Most of my riding will be on the road, with 1 or 2 trackdays a year, what would you recommend? Rosso 3s appear good value at the moment, but I keep eyeing up Michelin Road 5s and M9RRs. Any advice / feedback would be appreciated, I know tyres are a very subjective and personal thing though!
Surely with the ignition on its just as easy to set sag manually both ends? Yeah i understand damping on the fly adjustment negates the staic bounce test's validity. Seen mr moss do it on a beemer.
Hi - this is brilliant, having purchased a gen 4 S1000RR based on your recommendation (kindly via a question I asked on insta - thank you). I've just returned from first euro track day at Portimao and have become fascinated by suspension set-up. I am keen to learn more about the effect of comp / Reb / spring weight on bike handling on track. short of having a mechanic with me - where can I learn more? any recommended reading?
Can you do a 'Geek out' on the old Fireblade 16inch front wheel vs 17inch wheel swap? Why did they go and the keep the 16inch for so many years? And is it actually better to have the 17inch and handling vs tire selection trade off, etc.
I don’t know if I’ll be able to handle all this info my brain might explode
Why does Bike Mag slag off the bike suspension of sport versions as being too hard compared to standard without softening up / adjusting ie. this month’s edition Sept 23 regarding Monster SP
I’m not sure about that test, but quite often there’s nothing you can do. The best way to make a bike softer is to change the springs. Coming off the compression damping can help, but it’s not a proper fix. Preload makes no difference to spring hardness, either. 👍
Top G 🏝️
Neeeve Help me Decide between street triple rs and Gsxr 750 as my second bike, been having a 650 for 1.5 years now!
I'm a heavier guy (~280-300 lbs with gear) and always had problems with stock suspension or should I say, had to spend $2-3K on good suspension. So what you're saying is changing the springs on an electronic suspension is no good?
Not nerdy at all michael , if all bikers fully understood their suspension there would be less guys in hospital
👍
Is it true that OE Ohlins or Showa or Brembo is not as good/high quality as the same part number if bought aftermarket?
I’ve heard this but never had answer. I was told my old 675R with Ohlins on were just built to spec by triumph and not “proper” ohlins
This is a common misconception among motorcyclists. While it is absolutely not true that the OE Ohlins are worse that the aftermarket stuff but are actually one and the same, there are a few factors that can make people feel the other way. This feeling of OE Ohlins being worse than aftermarket Ohlins is because 1. The OE Ohlins suspension chosen by the manufacturer might not be the newest model available. 2. If you buy aftermarket, most suspension shops will tailor the suspension to your weight and needs whereas OE suspension is setup to suit most people not just one person. I heard this from an extensive interview with an Ohlins employee by the austrian motorcycle magazine/content creators at 1000PS. If you understand german you might want to listen to it as it covers many interesting topics. The video is called "Motorradfahrwerk von A-Z - Insiderinfos, Abstimmung, Tuning - mit Öhlins".
Cheers
Unless it’s a proper ohlins part no. manufacturers get ohlins to build suspension to their specs. Point in case most ohlins on Triumphs (scramblers, thruxtons are shite).
The spec of model chosen by the manufacturer may well not be the best model available for the specific bike. For example the 2011 RSV-4 Factory does have an Öhlins rear shock just a single, not TTX spec. My aftermarket Öhlins TTX-36 rear shock fitted to a CBR-600RR is far superior IMHO. Certainly a massive improvement on Honda stock shock built for 1/100 the cost.
Can I prove that the Factory suffers from cavitation, no. But a 220kg bike must be more susceptible than a 170kg bike.
Worth checking what they run in BSB Superstock RSV-4...
hello,
wow.
Great video. I still don't understand suspension setup though! My suggestion for a future geek video would be can you explain why some bikes have manual advance & retard & some don't? (only joking).
More nerd-fests please, loved this…. 👍