Bergmann 1908, 1910, and 1910/21 Pistols
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By the time Bergmann found a production subcontractor in AEP for the Spanish order of 1903 Bergmann pistol, the Spanish had added a few new changes to their order, which became known as the Model 1908. In addition to filling the Spanish production, AEP also sold the guns on the commercial market fairly successfully, under their Bayard trademark.
In 1910 an order was placed by the Danish government, with a few additional changes to the design (improved mainspring, magazine well cutouts to better grip the magazines, larger grips, etc) which became the Model 1910. AEP would institute these changes into their commercial guns as well as producing 4800 for Denmark. Production continued for civilian sales during German occupation in World War One, but ended after the war due to a lack of demand.
When Denmark began to run low of spare parts and wanted more pistols in 1921, they made yet more changes (primarily a much better set of grips and a non-reversible locking block to simplify reassembly) and put the new Model 1910/21 into production domestically. These would be the highest production evolution of the design, and are very nice sidearms, despite being bulky, heavy, poorly balanced, and low capacity in comparison to the other handguns then available on the market.
I don't care what anyone else says I have loved this entire Bergman series. Please continue bringing us development histories from other interesting arms.
finding a place that have all iterations of a gun to compare side by side is really rare though, but i agree.
this is my favourite series of videos from this channel so far
Me too, this was incredible
"I hope you guys enjoyed this as much as I did." Ian, we all know it's impossible for us to enjoy this as much as you.
Keep up the excellent work!
The auction house owner is like, "Gun Jesus, we love having you here, but if you could please stop turning water into Bergmann's, we'd appreciate it."
Ian stop, we think you need help. Professional help. You've become a Bergmannaholic
I can stop any time I want!
haha that's what all addicts say!
I think it might be communicable. I knew a little bit about the Bergman pistols before, but now that I have a lot more information, I feel....I feel the itch! I need one!
"I got a fever! And the only cure is more Bergmann!"
They are very beautiful and charming so I think it's ok. Or maybe I am addicted too?
the Bergman channel! not complaining we all now have a PhD in Bergmans
My Arab friend translated the Arabic gold inlay on the last pistol to say 'Beware, strength consists in archery', an Islamic Hadith.
remember that gun that tried to contest the c96 broomhandle?
Bergmann farm remembers
I bet I could make this gun at this point.
oh dang ma, hurry up Bergmann's World is on.
I think I actually prefer the later model bergmann's over the c96 Mauser, especially the 1910/21.
Walter White yeah, the 1910/21 looks sweet with a wooden grip - I much prefer its looks to the very early models.
Also, the stock attachment seems greatly improved.
I kind of like them too. They are a bit smaller then the Mauser, and a detachable magazine means a lot. The detachable magazine C96s are rare to say the least.
I love these! What do they normally sell for? Or are there good repos?
The grips look much more comfortable.
They do have a good look to them. They might really be better looking than the Broomhandle.
In the recent Danish movie 9. April detailing the events of the German invasion of Denmark in April 1940, on the eve of the battle you see an officer preparing and loading a Bergmann pistol. I just don't remember whether it is a 1910 or 1910/21.
Also, the movie is notable for its use of Danish Krag Jørgensen rifles, Madsen light machine guns and the 20 mm Madsen auto cannon mounted on Nimbus motorbikes. Only weapon out of place is an MG 42 which I suspect was due to inability to find a working MG 34.
In a key scene, a German armored car has a proper MG34, while a German motorcycle has the MG42. I'm telling myself, it's an MG34.
www.imfdb.org/wiki/April_9th
That site lists the pistol as the M1910/21.
Damn good film. Depressing, but damn good. Catch it, if you can.
Excellent film, that one
at this point I'm gonna start referring to Ian as "The BergMan(n)"
I loved the whole Bergmann Series Ian, great work as always!
Probably the coolest of the Bergman bunch. Thanks for this terrific series, Ian
Ive been waiting for this. The 1910/21 is without a doubt my favorite pistol, it looks so perfect.
Awesome series Ian! Congrats on 400k subscribers! You sure do deserve it. Keep up the great work! - Jacob S.
I can't wait for the sequel!
Bergmann 2: Electric Boogaloo
I really like the series progression. I would love to see more of these series like this on other models as well. Keep up the great work.
The Bergmann-Bayard series are one of my favorite pistol designs. Very cool video.
Yet another excellent video! I do not think we can get enough of these videos on what are very rare pistols, the world is full of videos on the more popular, (boring) guns that have been churned out by the million, I can see no gain to anyone in producing yet more duplicate information on these. The Bergmann, on the other hand is very sparsely covered in video or book form, so this short series is most welcome, the only down side of this short series of videos is that it is going to push the already high price of these gems up even further among men of good taste.
Hey i would just like to put this out.
Your videos are really interesting to watch, lots of intreresting information, history facts and little details you mention (really appreciate that). Also i really love the way you talk, it is really visible you love to do this and know a ton about this.
So ye... really cool quality content, i have to say. I absolutely fell in love with your channel :)
Keep up the good work Mister !
Thanks for these videos Ian. I've had a thing for Bergmanns for a long time. Thanks also to the anonymous Bergmann addict who made these pistols available.
Great series Ian, thank you!
Just watched all of them in a single sitting. I feel I am all Bergmanned out. However, such an interesting video series. Thank you for doing this series Ian. I think you set the bar on info for these pistols on CZcams.... You should make a Bergmann coffee table book now!
This is now the Forgotten Bergmanns channel.
I had an opportunity to purchase a 1910 Bergmann Bayard just over a year ago. I passed on it, mainly because I didn't know much about it or the 9mm Bergmann cartridge. If I had seen this series before that opportunity, I think I would have spent the money and bought the gun as a collector's piece. Now I know what an amazing firearm it is and will keep an eye open for a future opportunity.
Loved this series dude :) Would love to get my hands on that 1910 model!
these are the videos that never ends yes it goes on and on my friend
Someone started playing it, not knowing what it was, then they just kept watching them because, because, because!
If we ever get time travel I’m going to get the best gun collection anyone’s ever seen. Thanks to Ian I know which ones to get and the places and years to find them. I’ll stock up on ammo too. I can’t wait.
love the bergmann pistols, especially the older models. kind of look like a cross between a c96 and a p08, the mauser action with the lugers barrel.
They really give off the vibe of the signature gun of the big bad guy from a movie, very cool
Very appreciated series!
Ian is the Man... so knowledgeable and educated in all aspects of the guns he talks about.
That is a really awesome collection.
Great show Ian. I have an AEP 10/21, and my father has a Bayard marked "1912" model. I handload 9mm Largo and we shoot them sparingly. I would shoot mine more, but as you know, there are no spare parts out there; sad. I need to get on the patreon team as Forgotten weapons is really putting out the most unique content on CZcams.
I was wondering if there are historical accounts of how these later Bergmanns fared in service? They look pretty decent but were they reliable? Officers of the period often supplied their own side-arm; were Bergmanns a popular choice or had Mauser cornered the market?
The more I see them, the more I like these Bergmann pistols. Especially the last Danish-produced ones, more so with the bigger wooden grips. Some sexy guns. Thanks Ian for letting me know them.
"hærens tøjhus" basically translates to "the army's armory/arsenal"
Love those guns. Very futuristic! Would love to have one. Lots of similarity to the c96 mauser, but looks like it would handle better.
"Hærens Tøjhus" means "the Army Armoury" - don´t think it was a company x)
hjorturerlend also Tøjhus and Rustkammer (the second manufacturer) basically means the same in Danish so it is most likely the same place.
And "Heeres-Rüstkammer" is a German translation of "Hærens Tøjhus" ;)
That is quite an expansive Bergmann collection.
that safety lever change discussed at around 8:00 mark looks to be something more, look at the grip location, it is not just shorter, it is sort moved higher up to be more in line with the barrel, and as a result, the safety lever went up and the throw got reduced
This guy just never stopped.
They say hes still making Bergmann videos to this day.
Never stop never stopping
Well I want one now! I admire the machining.
From those of us that love reading encyclopedia. .. You do a great job... And are appriciated... tanx....
I wish I'd gotten one of these many years ago. Thinking back, there were some available mail order back in the early 60's.
Bergmann's pistols are really cool looking. Whatever other characteristics they have, they certainly look really cool.
The HR at about 19:40 stands for Hærens Rustkammer, if anyone was wondering :)
I find these fascinating, especially as I lived in Belgium and Denmark for quite a few years.
Learning about these older guns is more interesting than seeing others shoot more modern ones...although some interesting ones do appear (quad barreled pistol, the taurus handgun for concealed weaponry).
huh. I actually have the OTHER AEP Bayard, a little .32 pocket pistol. I knew the Model 1908 was shared between my little pistol and this one, didn't know it was a Spanish military contract. Neat to know.
Such cool pistols.
I did enjoy your Bergmann blogs but would really like to see you fire one ;o)
11:00
1910 military don't-
1910 military don't-
1910 military don't want none unless it can be stocked hun!
They're actually kinda cool, I think I'll take one of the later issues with the larger grip in the boxed case, with the diagonal holster, thank you.
Ian, your knowledge is impressive... Can we get new Bergmann shooting video too?
The 1910/21 was my favorite among the Martial pistols of that Era. It was a joy to shoot, and easy to maintain. (although the extractor could have been done better. )
anyone else catch on that the pistol in John Wayne's Big Jake featured one of these? One of my favorite western movies, and a dear memory of my father as a child. I never new they where real!
I missed the comment on the original one, but it makes sense. Still funny to see that a gun I thouh was a made up name all these years was quite real
The prop was a Walther P38 made to look like a Bergmann 1896. One of my favorite John Wayne movies also.
Thanks!
God damn the comments on these past few videos are top tier comedy gold. Ian, fantastic vids, keep em coming.
I'm actually from Liège, and I have no idea how to pronounce "pieper" :v.
I shall drink ALL THE BEER until I can !
Pee Per.
Fun fact. The Danish military bought the replacement gun in 1949 (M/49-SIG 210-Neuhausen). Denmark has just decided, to look for a replacement. After 68 years of service, estimated arrival in 2019.
I love magazine forward the look of these Bergmann's, and browsed for a modern equivalent. Not many to choose from, but the Walther GSP looks promising. It seems to be available in .22 and .32. Has anyone seen anything similar in 9mm?
I feel like I now know more about these Bergmanns than any other pistol in history.
I love how this gun looks.
"Hærens Tøjhus" Was one of the Danish state arsenals. The literal translation would be "The army clothing house" It got its name because they also made the uniforms for the soldiers there too. And there has been a large display of army equipment there since the 19 century. Its still there as a museum. I place you should check out if you are ever in Denmark
23:51 That is such a beautiful pistol!
Are you planning on making a video about the SiG P210?
16:36 "Did you get the Danish version?"
"No such lug, my friend."
And gun jesus said, "Ye shall make bergman videos"
Bergman 3;16
lol, love the videos Ian, thanks for the uploads!
I'm really surprised they never made a larger magazine for that gun, like a 10 or a 12 round magazine even a 20 would been awesome. It would have stuck out a little bit but would have been way more effective during combat. And especially with the fact that they took stripper clips could have had bigger stripper clips to go with the bigger magazines also. I really like that gold inlay on that one it looked really nice I forget the term for that but you talked about that before where they do all those pistols with that gold inlay.
13:30 "... been horrendously krippled from birth by a horrible case of left-handynes ... " 😂😂🤣
This gun guy sometimes just kills me
Yup, likewise my wife and my son, both "horribly crippled" 😉
My Dad was left handed too, but joining the British armed forces as a National Serviceman cured that - "All of our equipment is right handed, so *YOU* will be right handed !" 😁
I had no idea you were left-handed until this video... I don't feel so horribly alone now!
Not sure why but I really like the idea of a pistol carbine - I think it's the aesthetics. Would be nice if any were made nowadays, just as a sort of niche or novelty item.
And we're back with another episode of 'Forgotten Bergmanns'. Ian must know more about the Bergmanns than Bergmann himself did!
-Jen
Hi Ian, I have enjoyed this series of videos, thank you. I am guessing an In Range Mud Test is not on the cards but given your experience in these matters how do you think the 1910/21 would fair. Are there any records of the Bergmann's performance in the field?
This Bergmann collection is incredible. Is it missing anything?
great video series. good looking pistols. i always thought the luger and the final series of the bergman were the best looking full size service auto's . produced. Sig p210, Hi power, 1911 would be runner up group
Is there any chance that we will see the cetme ameli? I cant seem to find any videos taking an in depth look at it...
Finally! A Bergmann that has reloading brass available! Too bad I couldn't afford the gun, even if I could find one.
Ian your awesome brother!
Bergmanns sure make a good basis for Star Wars blasters.
The two different stocks might have been made in mind for how different armies would traditionally wear their kit, one might wear their holster on the left and sabre on the right or vice versa depending on traditions, parade doctrine etc
Also, "Hærens Tøjhus" is where the Danish museum of military history is located today, called Tøjhusmuseet. Brilliant place!
Definitely a neat assortment of locked breach pistols
I might be mistaken but that first danish ordered one, the 1910 i think, looks like it has a different rear sight on it.
The v notch looks bigger and the mount looks like it has been scalloped out for a better site picture.
judging by the people complaining Ian I'd say the next gun you do this for you might wanna separate videos with other guns in between haha even tho I don't mind it's great seeing all these different subtle changes
The John Wayne movie "Big Jake" features a Bergman model 1910 in the year 1908. It was an experimental model because the McCandels family were investors.
Clay Rogers,
The only time you see John Wayne lose control of a firearm.
out of curiosity, Ian, how many more Bergman pistol videos are left? they're great vids, but I fear my tastes tend more towards rifles.
One more :)
timberjack460 I sexually identify as a Bergmann Model of 1910
Ingrid Bergman?
Damn, all the Bergmanns of the world have been gathered. That's some impressive collection, I'll say that much.
A fun fact about Danish services pistols: we still use the p210 today. Pistols really isn't a priority in the Danish army
Unit 2 Hey the p210 is a wonderful shooter
EisenKreig It sertanly is and I have had the pleasure of shooting one, but as a military service pistol it is rather dated by now and the fact that they have been in more or less continuous use since the 1950's doesn't really help reliability
I owned one of the Sig p 210's that came on the surplus market about 10 years ago. I think I paid about $1200 for it then
Ahhhhh, new Bergmans!
Four years in the future he still has not kicked the habit.
This gun is slowly growing on me in H3VR, and it does look intriguing irl too..
25:10 "...a substantially better grip on the pistol. And is large enough to stick a magazine in the handle!" : )
Forgotten Bergmanns Strikes Again!
Excellent presentation. I love the red table cloth and have used red table covers for over 40 years. I discovered back then, that blued, stainless and nickel guns, all look good on red. Who owned these guns, is this your personal collection? Also, why not show at least a picture of the cartridge with a 9 mm Luger for scale. Sorry, but I repeat myself.
You mentioned there was two different production locations in Denmark for their pistols, did you have the names of them? I know of Ny Tøjhus which replaced an older armory/arsenal(tøjhus) in 1888 but I couldn't find anything regarding any others in the relevant time period.
I think I would space out these Bergmann videos a bit more, still enjoyed it though :)
after watching about 2 and half hours of burgmann pistols and I'm still interested
Bergmann should offered a wooden shoulder stock instead of that mostly leather one, they had a very solid stock attachment system. With a wooden stock the pistol would be very good at shooting.
I spotted the Bergmann you shot in an old video, is it yours? are some of these beauties in your collection, Ian?
Is there any reinforcing in the leather stock/holster? If they are just leather how do they take the recoil without collapsing?