Bergmann 1920s Experimental Military Trials Pistol
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- čas přidán 19. 01. 2017
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This was, as far as I can tell, the final iteration of the Bergmann pistols, developed by AEP in Liege for potential military contracts. It retains the locking system of the 1910 pattern pistol, but with a simplified disassembly method reminiscent of the C96 Mauser. The barrel was lengthened, the rear sight replaced with an adjustable leaf type, and the magazine capacity increased to 15.
This model appears to have been tested by the French in 1923, and probably by other nations as well. However, by this time the magazine-forward configuration was decidedly obsolete for a military sidearm, and no contracts were to be found.
I may know fuckall about most 1900 pistols but just wait till someone asks me about bergmanns
bob drenan lol
I'm a boring IT guy from a country without guns, and now I'm a Bergmann firearms expert.
Laird Cummings an ideal passage, Luger 9:19
Another boring guy from another nation without guns and I am now a Bergmann expert too. :D
routari same here :)
Haaa.... You're from NZ hey bro... ?
X is an unknown quantity and A spert is A drip under preacher
And give us our daily Bergmann...
I learned two things from this long Bergmann series.
1) Bergmann didn't give up on having this pistol redesigned over and over until it was optimized.
2) Someone 100 years later has just as much passion for this series of pistols as Bergmann himself.
Hi guys, thanks for tuning into another video on forgotten Bergmanns.
Love ya Ian
Forkuh Did you copy my comment or is this just how good of an idea it was?
I'm Bergmann, and I'm here today at the Bergmann auction house taking a look at some of the Bergmanns in their Bergmann collection.
Know what? That was a cool bunch of videos 'bout Bergmann pistols.
Interesting and informative. There are no other series about Bergmanns around youtube.
Thank you Ian. Keep up the good work!!
So the best Bergmann pistol is a Mauser Bromhandle ? lol
The Mauser C96 was developed after Mauser dropped the manufacturing of the Bergmann pistols. The original Bergmann predates the C96 by a substantial period.
Damn, that's the best looking Bergmann yet! Looks like a bad guys gun with that aggressive style.
So Han Solo is a bad Guy (i think it looks like a C96 which Han's Blaster is based on) and the Chinese Soldiers defending against the Japanese Empire with C96s probably also didn't see themselfes as bad guys
Even James Bonds Walther looks more Evil than this because Germany had Walther PP and PPK Handguns in WW2 (the also GermanMauser HSc and Sauer 38H from WW2 look almost like Walther PPKs) and the Soviet Makarov looks similar
I've always been partial to pistols with the magazine in front of the grip.
They just look cool.
@@EASY7356 Remember, Han shot first!
So yes, he has to be the bad guy.
This iteration of the Bergmann reminds me of the looks af the chinese .45ACP C96, in fact the Bergmann and the C96 have similar looks anyway, but this one with it´s bulky grip and the long mag and barrel looks very much like the .45 C96.
(If only I could remember how it´s name is spelled, Shanzei, Shenzei...???)
My god, this collection is *incredibly* comprehensive! Its owner was very generous to allow us a peek - some amazing pieces in there.
I didn't care too much about the Bergmanns, but gradually they really grew on me... be it Ian's excellent presentation, or the fact that they slowly became more and more like the iconic "broomhandle" C96 Mauser (one of my favorites :)
Which raises the question, which of the two was ultimately the superior design? Obviously they share the same form factor shortcomings, and the C96 was more successful commercially, but what about accuracy, reliability, usability, design ingenuity and refinement etc. ?
capitalize God
@@hahahafunny9419 4 fucking years after my comment, you come to tell me _this_ ?!
For your reference, *not* capitalising that word was a conscious choice, not an oversight. I never capitalise it. You won't impose your shit on me.
I guess the C96, mostly beause of easier disasembly, but also because of the durable locking mechanism with its two lugs, the long guiding rails of the slide, the tangent sight and the legendary machining quality.
I still find it fascinating that the one and only single screw the C96 uses is the one for the wooden grips, and how the main components come togheter.
Mauser surely did a great job in terms of quality!
On the other hand the Bergmann locked breech versions have a detatchable mag unlike the C96 (except some of its post WWI versions).
It would be interesting if there are quality differences in the Bergmanns of the different manufactures (V.C. Schilling Suhl, Bergmann Gaggenau, AEP Herstal and the two danish manufactures of the M1910/21).
@@philp8872 Good points, thanks :)
I loved these Bergmann videos. It's not often we get to watch the evolution of a firearm over 30 years. These final guns look more and more like C96s. Especially this last one with the 15 round mag and new bolt.
Ian's new logo needs to be a crest of two Bergmanns. You know, something stylistic and tasteful.
A big thanks to whoever supplied this collection of guns. And of course, thank you Ian!
I knew there was at least one more model to go. There are still 37 variants. Can't wait for the novel.
at what point if ever did everyone give up on holsters as removable stocks?
The 1920s, in general.
didn't Mauser continue to produce a holster stock till 1941?
These Bergman's, though it looks like a lot of Mauser C96 was applied, were the end of an era, and show the change in Military Doctrine that was coming in at the time. Ian critisies the mag removal on the early ones, but! Do you need to take the mag out that often when de rigeur was charger loading? I notice this pistol still has charger load. Also the SMG and Self Loading carbine made a pistol with stock irelevant, to bulky as a pistol, not as useful as an SMG or carbine. WW1 also brought about a lot of changes in doctrine, a slump in the world economy, lots of firearm innovation and it had been the War to End all Wars, so no major country was looking to rearm, and for the rest the market was awash with surplus. RIP Bergman.
Ian thanks for bring us this series. Really enjoyed it. Look forward to the next one.
Damn fine series on the Bergmans. Been fascinated with the early semiautomatics for over a year, when I acquired a C96 Mauser Red 9. As with the Bergmans, they are interesting, fascinating, and lovely pistols. Thanks for the series!
Jokingly, I can say that it took Bergmann 30 years to turn its guns into C96s. :)
Really cool stuff. Thanks Ian - also thanks to the collector for letting us get a look a these.
Now you have to do the MG15, the MP18/I and the MP28/II. For our weekly dose of Bergmann.
I wonder if Bergmann had Mauser's c96 in mind.
He should do a side by side comparison.
Mauser contracted to manufacture Bergmann’s before the C96 was developed. The C96 was specifically designed to avoid the Bergmann patents.
Back for my daily dose of Bergmann. :)
-Jen
and with this video I finish watching an extra long director's cut feature film about bergmann pistols.
I'm surprised that this gun, maybe in a form chambered for the 7.63mm Mauser, didn't find its way into China.
The 7.63 Mauser cartridge was actually copied from one of the earlier Bergmann cartridges. Look up the 1897 No.5 Bergmann that Mauser were contracted to construct but dropped in 1896.
After watching all these Bergmann videos, i kept hoping to see one about Ingrid :P
The 1920 is by Farr the best design I have seen of any off the previous models.
Great video, thank you Sir.
Hey Ian, another great Bergmann video! I was hoping you would answer a couple bit random questions for a fellow long hair brother. 1) How long have you been growing your hair? 2) How long does it take to dry it after showering? Thank you for your great work as always man, keep it up!
I love that version of the pistol. It seems to be a great set of design changes. It is a shame it came too late though. As a little close quarters carbine, I think this is a great set-up.
man you LOVE those bergmann pistols ! haha ... all the videos you made were fascinating tho !! love all your vids , they are so interesting . you present all those guns as pieces of art and i love it . i always waiting for new videos , don't ever stop plz .
Just watched every single Bergmann video. That's all.
just kicked in a monthly donation on your patreon. would love to see that goal of traveling to museums come to fruition.
I really loved this series of videos. looking at that last pistol really makes me feel a bit of loss that they were not adopted despite the obvious superiority of the others.
Before this series, I had never seen nor heard of these pistols. You taught me everything I know! I've really enjoyed learning about them and seeing the changes over the years. Thank you.
Something about that mag-forward design really resonates with me (probably because of the C96/DL-44).
I really like the wooden grips on those later models. They seem far more ergonomic than the C96, and the removable box magazines of the later models also seem better in concept. I'd love to see someone pattern a modern gun in 9mm after the Bergman designs, maybe fed by Glock mags. The forward weight and modern polymers could lead to something extremely well balanced and almost without recoil.
I imagine the years right after the war to end all wars were difficult time to find military contract for Pieper.
True, wrong gun , wrong time.
Hail Bergmann, full of quirks
Gun Jesus is with thee.
Blessed art thou amongst pistols,
and blessed is the fruit of thy magazine well.
Hail Bergmann, cousin of broomhandles, pray for us gun nuts, now and in the hour of our boredom.
Scullys Tie -Lol. Great one!
Dutch Broomhandle Schmeisser, really neat.
Looks like a Bergmann lower and c96 barrel/slide assembly!
Oh how i wish there would be a 22lr version of bergmann, i would adore that thing.
It looks like one of the later external magazine Mauser broomhandles. Weird.
The first book of guns I ever owned was a book of pistols that mentioned most of these Bergmann pistols. Between then and these vids I've never seen them referenced or mentioned anywhere else.
PLEASE let this be the last bergmann video... I'm so far down the rabbit hole I can't see daylight
I know of one more, at least. The Simplexes. czcams.com/video/WYXtYZDRAK8/video.html The IAN is thorough!...
Those look like Mauser C96 pistols...
Anyone else?
You know, if you took a hacksaw to that, stuck a telescopic sight on the side backwards and fitted it with a flash-hider from a Bren gun, you could make a _really_ cool laser pistol as a prop for a space movie...
Whaddya mean 'run'? I was running before I started typing....
With an extended barrel this would make a great carbine. And having the magazine where it is is ideal for such a weapon. How this didn't catch on I will never know.
Kuddlesworth NA they should have made one in .30 carbine
Such a good looking pistol.
Thanks Ian, the Bergman Bayard has been one of my favorite weapons since childhood when I saw it in the the John Wayne classic Big Jake, though I'm not sure that the pistol used in the movie actually was a B. Bayard.
I heard that the pistol in the movie was a P-38 altered to resemble a Bergman Bayard, perhaps you could she'd some light on the subject.
Just when you think you've gotten through all the Bergmanns, they pull you back in:)
Very interesting Ian the Bergmann pistol
it's interesting that AEP would make an effort (and kudos for trying) to sell a pistol design, and almost a copy of the C96, that was nearly 30 years old at the time, even if the Mauser was still kind of going strong in to the 1930s and beyond.
The 1920s Experimental look neat :)
Hello we I'm Bergmann and welcoming to another episode of forgotten Bergmann, today I'd like to take a look at Bergmann Bergmann Bergmann Bergmann And let me find every remaining model of Bergmann and tell you about Bergmann
My two favorites are the very first version because of it's nice rounded grip profile and smaller frame. I think the larger looking trigger finger hole was designed to work while wearing bulky gloves. Also having the side plate release accessable without the need to remove the grips I think is a plus.
The very last model obviously copied features from Mauser or Astra which I like. Everything mentioned does seem like an improvement.
The Colt 1911 probably seemed to be a more streamlined design after it came out. Somebody should do a parts count on a 1911 and a Bergman to see which would have been easier and cheaper to produce.
All forward magazine pistols are cool to me for whatever reason
I hope one day you can gain access to a Schönberger Laumann and show it to us.
I have a video on them filmed but not published yet. :)
Excellent! I will watch for it.
Hey guys welcome back to forgotten Bergmans.com. I'm Ian and here's another Interesting Bergman.
Gee whiz, for some reason I really want a Bergmann right now...
"Hi guys! Thanks for tuning into another episode of Forgotten Bergmanns dot com."
Sorry, Ian. I had to. Could we have another episode like the Afghani Martini-Henry episode spaced in here somehow, so as to break up the Bergmann videos a bit? If not, it's cool (because I'm still totally watching), it's just so many Bergmann pistols in such a short period of time!
9:35 "The new grips on this are significantly wider than the original Bergmann grips, and are...hm, wide enough that you could put the magazine inside the handle!"
You have the best job! 😀
Do you actually do the auction? I would like to know the final price sold for some items. These two are beautiful and I was wondering the price, if there is an auction.
Just a few firearms that I think people would be interested in:
Blunderbuss
Harpoon gun (Greener)
Net gun
Tranquilizer pistol
Punt gun
Just a few Bergmanns that I think people would be interested in:
Bergmann Blunderbuss
Bergmann Harpoon gun (Greener)
Bergmann Net gun
Bergmann Tranquilizer pistol
Bergmann Punt gun
If Pieper were hoping to sell this pistol to France; I'm surprised it was still chambered for 9mm Bergman.
The post-WW1 French army request for a pistol specified both a 15 round magazine and 9mm Parabellum.
These things look more and more Mauserish as they evolve.
Nice. Didn't one of the Spanish firms, probably Astra, make a clone of this in the 20's? Or was it a C96 clone? I can't remember. I do remember, when i was 11 (34 yrs ago now), having a toy gun which closely resembled a C96 detachable mag style, although i think the grip shape was wrong. It looked much more like this. It had the usual full auto sounding noisemaker gears when you pulled the trigger. And it had the word "Schmeisser" molded in the side near the mag well (all molded as one piece, only thing that moved was the trigger). Maybe someone at the toy factory knew something i didn't, or had just heard the name somewhere and thought it sounded cool to put on there. Ah, memories. Great video as always. Thank you
You are probably thinking of the Astra 900 series.
It's not likely that it'll ever turn up at an auction, but I'd like it if you'd try to cover the FM57 and GRAM series of assault rifles developed for the Swedish army.
Blessed is Gun Jesus for illuminating our days our ignorance with a full series of videos on the one and only .... Bergmann - yea, verily it is the coolest of all pistols!
IMHO lol
That bore axis though
Hi, guys. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of forgotten bergmanns dot com.
That is really the best iteration of the 1910. I wonder if the old steel on one of the civilian models would tolerate being modded into one, or if it would take an entire reproduction? I could see doing a mod on a reasonable basement machine shop, but I know I wouldn't have the patience to mill and file an entire frame to spec.Uh - uh! Maybe some Indonesian Ghost builder would enjoy it, but that's about as close to happening as me finding an entire pistol under my pillow in the morning. Just a thought. I think that a repro would sell out just on those looks alone. It looks like a tough, competent machine, I'm sure some people would love to see it sporting a can, too bad a suppressor would be too much mass on a short recoil barrel. That round is just under 1170 fps, and I'm sure I'm not the first to notice it. Id just want one that looks like what they intended it to. Mean.
need to start making the early Bergmann in 9mm or 380
better make a late Bergman in 9parabellum & fun switch. 😊
Viewers we need to help. I think Ian has been kidnapped and is sending us messages through the Bergman Videos. I'm playing them backwards and listening for any new voices in my head.
A little rewatch.
I'm not sure if I missed it throughout the series, but how did you manage to get to look at such a variety of rare Bergmann pistols. Especially the engraved piece with the arabic lettering and this unique iteration... Is this all one person's private collection?
Does Ian have any Bergmann videos??
is anyone else seeing the progression of these pistols? the look more and more similar to the C96 Mauser. I wonder if at this point the patents were up for the Mauser so they borrowed some design features?
Bergmann, the only name in experimental weapons quality.
Why didn't the guns end up in china like the Mauser pistols?
Ahhh, looking back on 2017 remembering fondly Bergmania.
Do the 1903 Hammerless
1903 hammerless bergmann?
readyrepairs no the Colt 1903 Hammerless
+Lord Spoice
Pretty sure he did do one on the Colt 1903 Hammerless a few years ago... I could be wrong, but it'd be pointless to do the same video twice
HM The Tsar of Russia no he hasn't, he did a similar looking gun from 1908.
+Lord Spoice
Like I said, I could have been wrong. I thought he had done one, but I honestly couldn't remember one way or another if he did or didn't.
I'd love to own one in modern a cartridge
with the stock it might have been a good pilot bail out gun though!! a definite plus if you have to bail out over a forest like Alaska!!!!
The more I look at it the more it sort of looks like a Mouser broom handle. I wonder if there was any cross-over of ideas or just two engineers arriving at the same conclusion.
Mauser were contracted to manufacture the Bergmann No.5 pistol in 1896 but dropped the contract after manufacturing a dozen prototypes. Bergmann had to set up his own manufacturing plant to get the No.5 on the market in 1897.
Is there a graph of the recent prices of Bergmann pistols available. Is there a sudden peak over the last few weeks by any chance?
Really cool gun. But something sad over it for some reason, guess because they tryed and tryed, not wanting to see that "hey.. Your gun is old and out now.. Go away pls" but kept on fighting for their "precious"..... One question came up after watching.. What pistol would you consider as the most powerful or just best choise for military use around 1920? THanks for your good vids!
Did any early self loading pistols use en bloc clips Ian? Like Steyr 95 style?
Yes, the Bergmann 1894 and 1896.
Hi guys, thanks for tuning in to another video of BergmanWeapons.com, I'm Ian.
Haha, just kidding, you're awesome and these guns are so cool.:D
Like I said about the Madsen M47, somebody needs to breathe new life into guns like these! Of course they should give the Bergmann 1920 modifications to use 9mm Parabellum.
9mm Bergman is still commercially available. It was adopted by the Spanish as 9mm Largo (along with the Bergman pistols in 1905).
From a layman's point of view, it looks as if they would have done well to go down the super compact SMG route rather than the bulky pistol route. With a closed bolt design it would have been far better quality than an MP40 for example, and much more compact. Lovely.
Regular Bergmann Reviews
Ian, can you say something interesting about gas-operated Gatling-like guns: like Slostin machine gun?
Bergmann didnt make that though.
It would be nice if they were available, but they were competing against the 1911 and P08 (among others). I'm surprised the 1910/21 survived as long as it did; actually, I'm surprised it existed at all.
I notice a lot of these old guns with tangent rear sights are adjustable to insane ranges. 2000m for a rifle with iron sights? 500m for pistols? Maybe if you are Simo Hayha.
There for area fire, at that range you just have to hope that you'll actually hit something.
Its like a C96 and a Bergmann had a kid
I think it's safe to say, with 100% certainty, if you are a regular viewer of this channel, the Bergmann's are no longer Forgotten Weapon's
Does it Djent?
You failed to show how the 1920 Bergmann is charged (chambering a round).
I hate all these sarcastic anti-Bergmann comments! I love Bergmanns, and I appreciate Ian covering a family of firearms so thoroughly. #BergmannLove
Am I the only one who thinks they might have had a chance if they could have converted this gun to auto and shopped it around as a smg? Stick a wire stock on it and it would look pretty good, I think.
The 1920 Experimental looks lighter than the C96 from what I'm seeing, not to mention a detachable mag with a great magazine catch release. Wonder what would've happened if this pistol had been accepted by anyone, like for say, the Chinese, Japanese, just to name a couple.
Shame nobody did though.
The Danes put it into production themselves in 1921 and made a few thousand for themselves.
How much would it cost to buy one of these guns with them being so old and rare?
All Ian videos are interesting and educational.
However, in the spirit of variety, how about more rifle videos?
Specifically cartridge conversions and needlefire guns. Live fire if possible, please.