Should we stop using old computers to save them? Amiga 500 Data Transplant
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- čas přidán 15. 05. 2024
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0:00 Intro/Problem
4:11 Switcheroo/Big Question
6:42 Ladyfractic
7:29 Amiga Transplant
9:34 Will It Work?
11:50 Flicker Fixer
13:31 Teenage Letters
15:34 ADF Floppies
17:59 SysInfo Speed Test
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22:12 A Titanic Conclusion
24:46 End/Supporter Credits
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#retro #retrogaming #retrocomputing #dogs #gaming #gamergirl - Věda a technologie
I hope you find the idea of using computers half as much to last twice as long thought provoking & that it has a positive outcome for the community. And perhaps by retiring our machines temporarily, that wonderful nostalgia hit will feel even stronger when we plug them back in ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ You can help us keep these wonderful machines running & in the public consciousness by hitting the new Thanks button under the video 🙏
You have too much modern crap in your computers ;) My A600 and C64 are working as stock and genuine as always. I have never seen an fully convincing Amiga emulation, be at in software or FPGA. No need for all those complicated expansions and HDMI adapters. Stop Frankensteining your hardware. This emulation might be sufficient for admiring your ancient desktop, but Turrican II is best played on an original Amiga with 1084, which still is working, too :)
Having seen lots of retro related videos over the years, I am pretty sure, that handling the old hardware, and fiddling around with it, is the main part for most people to actually being busy with their devices. But it's exceptionally rare for people to actually 'seriously' play a single game, instead of just casually browsing through their library of 10,000 copies, which they never ever will really lay again, besides starting them up and feel nostalgia for a minute. Really trying to play games that pushed the Amiga's hardware to the limits, will quickly show
you the limitations of emulation. (Async sound, latency stuttering and whatever..)
Of course most of us actually like to fiddle around, repair and future proof our beloved hardware, but otherwise, I don't see any need to preserve the original hardware any further than ourselves actually need to, because of: Whom for? No one after our generation will ever again care about our childhood memories and the home computer history we lived through, remotely as much as we do. You don't pay your Amiga credits by NOT using her.
I want to ask all people who think they prefered emulation: How often do you really play on your emulation system? And what games? Any games that are really making use of the hardware?
Old hardware sucks, cool to look at but emulation is king.
A blend of retirement of systems, using modern interfaces on old systems, old interfaces on modern systems, modern recreations, and adapters and emulation. Also still using the old stuff.
@@Darthborg I have about 8TB of games for a lot of systems all ready to emulate - but original hardware being "crap" doesn't factor into that at all. I also have real Amigas, Macs, Ataris and most consoles since 1977.
@@elmariachi5133 my case its not exactly prefer emulation its that emulation for lot old systems I had was my only 100% sure option of getting a working system. I got 4 C64 that motherboards delaminated, I really drew the hardware loto short straw there. At least I recovered the cost selling off the chips.
The reality is to keep a legacy system going forever you need to be able to perform "Ship of Theseus" with new parts. Sooner or latter you will run out of the genuine parts. Yes PCB falling apart is real problem that does happen at some point. Reality is this is a true "Ship of Theseus" problem there does come the point where due to the number of parts you are replacing that it will be better to replace the complete thing with something functionally equal this is where FPGA and Emulators come into own.
There are particular games I go back and play completely all the way though about one them ever 3 years(I am not what you call a heavy gamer). Lot of them are like the old might and magics where there are many different ways to complete the game. Yes I have not played every combination of that game yet. Some of the younger people have picked up these games. Of course there is a problem that there is not a proper market for new people to buy these games. No one after our generation is not exactly true some schools do show younger people retro games and some younger ones do get into those games. You also find younger people as people at times born 2 decades after some games were launched speed running the game of course sometimes with original hardware but lot of the times with emulation. The lack of pay to win and true good story and not being disrupted by internet issues does still work well. Basically there is something to these older games that do work even for the younger generations.
"Really trying to play games that pushed the Amiga's hardware to the limits, will quickly show you the limitations of emulation. (Async sound, latency stuttering and whatever..)"
There is a point here you miss. How would you know that was not how the program behaved if you only had the emulator and the emulator was not improved to remove those defects. So yes we do need data of originals to be able to make emulators and replacement parts "Ship of Theseus" style. Yes we need videos and data recorded on the original hardware to be preserved so after the day original hardware no longer works we do know how it really behaved. These are videos that should end up on archive.org and equal this is part of the preservation.
Yes part of that replacement parts is being able to legally acquire the software for the old systems because at times you will have a disc failure/backup failure in ways you are not expecting.
There is a lot of problem here. One thing is absolutely for sure at some point in the future there will be no 100 genuine version of these old systems still working this is forces of nature at play degrading stuff. Yes there is a time figure on a computer in a box never opened for how long it will be functional for. Yes this is very much real world Schrödinger's cat box with the cat being the computer system inside because so many factors effect the part degrade rate and one is background radiation damage.
People have to decide either to:
1) Prepare for the end of original retro hardware by doing up emulation and fpga solutions with recorded videos and information on how the original hardware worked and using the original as little a possible to extend it life as much as possible. Yes this is the original to collect data on difference between it and the emulation/fpga solutions but not as a daily driver any more. This even includes having people who don't have the retro hardware running the software and reporting issue to those that do to find out if what they are seeing is how the hardware really is or if it something with emulation/fpga that wrong.
2) People can wait until there is none of the original retro hardware left while keeping on using the retro hardware as a daily driver. Yes this will result in having to work harder and harder keeping the retro hardware going so making original lifespan even shorter and progressive having system pull a "Ship of Theseus" coming less and less original if people doing path one happen to make parts compatible with original systems.
3) People give up on using retro software and hardware.
The reality here that only the 3 choices I see. I don't think there is a 4 choice. Personally I think Prepare for the end of original retro hardware is the correct way forwards. At worst that will leave behind solutions for museums to have interactive displays of these old systems so future generations can see in fact experience how early gaming and software really was. The reality that electronics has a fixed life is hard for people to take.
From personal experience, the problems occur when the old computers are used infrequently. The ones I use on a regular basis never go wrong.
Same with pretty much any electronics. If you leave it unused for years, then good chance capacitators will have failed but I have not come across them failing very often when in constant use.
Agreed.. That's why I always laugh when someone is selling a computer and says "It worked when I last used it...." (30 years ago)
Using it causes wear and tear.
For example, even when you pass low voltages, 1 to 2 V through a copper wire, over time, the copper atoms get forced out of place. The surface of the wire starts to look like a sine wave. I have seen this one time in a SEM image. It is possible a similar thing happens to the aluminium, gold, silicon inside chips and transistors.
I think in the case of transistors, even in ICs, it is called electron displacement, electron delocalization, I forget the exact term. It isn't that the electrons are displaced. It is the silicon, boron, phosphorus atoms.
The colder it is, the longer it lasts.
@@louistournas120 yes, but... Oxygen atoms.penetrates constantly on those old chips, producing die contamination, warm chips are less prone to suffer that. So in one way or another...
@@christiancarassai9540 What makes warm chips less likely to suffer oxidation?
Also, every time you turn a computer off or on you change the chip temperature. I know a few engineers who claim that this thermal cycling is the biggest source of wear for old chips, especially on bond wires. Unfortunately I haven't seen any data to back that up.
I think the MiST/MiSTer project was created to address your specific concern. The Amiga hardware has been documented so that FPGAs and whatever evolution that type of chip may take in the future can replicate the exact functions of the original hardware.
MiSTer FPGA is the greatest thing I ever purchased.
Hi I agree the mister project is very good. I mainly use the Amiga, BBC micro, Archimedes, Mac, and DOS PC cores. They all work pretty well. I am in the process of converting my system to an ITX format and installing it in a modern Commodore 64 case by My Retro Computer. I would have liked to have used an Amiga case, perhaps that will be my next project.
Works well for the most part. Some demoscene prods still misbehave on MiSTer and emulators.
Agreed. Maintaining a fleet of finicky machines got to be more trouble than it was worth when I realized I was spending more time servicing the hardware than I was actually using it. If you want to have all the systems (and we all do lol) mister is the way to go
I was wondering about the Mister. I own one and was hoping I could set it up to play Amiga games versus buying the A500 mini.
I work in cultural heritage and I find that the value to get from interacting with artefacts is far more than just having an artefact be inert behind glass. Without the human element these object are just random objects. They should be used and maintained. The ship of Theseus analogy is apt, but the answer to that question is yes! A C64 that over the years has become an completely new C64 is still the same computer.. IF.. it has been used all that time!
Interesting thought. Thanks for sharing it! My opinion is that you use them until they fail, then put them on display afterwards. Otherwise, these computers may just be on display and go defective anyways without the joy and fun of using them. Lastly, part of the fun of these retro computers is that they are simple enough that many people can fix / repair them. I find almost as much enjoyment in testing, troubleshooting, and repairing as I do in using them.
At 6:47 i spat my cup of tea over my monitor.. Thanks Chris!
For me the retro computing hobby is about just the things you said are an annoyance. 😃 Much like classic car ownership, a large proportion of my enjoyment comes from the repairing, restoring, tweaking and fettling. Tweaking settings in UAE doesn't really scratch that itch.
I completely agree with this analysis. But the originals are still the “old spice” of life. Just something about having to fiddle around with things to play one game and then set it back for others, especially the Amigas…. All very much rose tinted.
Yeah, exactly. In my opinion, a little bit of funding for fixing bits and pieces is far better than going millionaire mode and full buying a different newer one, which I literally can't afford to do.
Emulation is clearly the way to go for those who need a reliable setup, the c64 maxi, A500 mini or even a PC are great devices for that. However I do get a special feeling when using real hardware, the feel of the keyboard, the joysticks, the sound of the disk drive and the slightly blurry image on the CRT. Plus of course no input delay and everything looking and sounding exactly like it should.
That special feeling is similar to seeing a music band that you are a big fan of. When they are on the screen (television, monitor, etc), that is kind of like Emulation. They seem very distant & as flat as the screen you are watching them on. Sometimes it feels shallow as you know they are just made of pixels. When you see your band in person & you are in the front row, that is like the "actual hardware & software", because they are not "flat" anymore, you seem them in 3 dimensions & at the sharpest image resolution your eyes/brain can make them. And the sound can be much more powerful, loud & in your face. Emulation is definitely for convenience & as a last resort & sometimes for reliability ... if you don't have a real setup. I have both.
My take on this, from a classic car owner luckily enough: My car has been given a full nut and bolt restoration with new reproduction parts, it’s still a spectacular relic from 1966, it doesn’t feel modern to me, I think it’s the same with maintained vintage computers, or custom remakes to original specs: the feeling is still there, you don’t tend to get that with emulators in my honest opinion.
Plus, more and more suitable modern replacement parts are becoming available by the day! I often find the coolest retro machines, are the ones which have been heavily modified by the original owners and are quite far removed from the original machines while still having vintage charm - I believe these examples are the best because the give you a more detailed glimpse into the world of your average die-hard 80s/90s computer user than, say, a stock Commodore 64 - again, you don’t get that detail with an emulator, or a dedicated emulation machine like the C64 Maxi in my experience.
So I think rebuilds and modifications are still the way to go - while still keeping some examples preserved of course 🙂
This is why I enjoy watching Techmoan and RetroRecipes. They do all the work, and I don't have all the hassel of restoring the old retro machines.
Never could afford an Amiga after my C64 in those days, but this still appeals to my nostalgia. I love these videos of yours; they have no peer.
Thank you for your kind words! Means a lot 👍🕹️
I like you to help me get started to buy a Amiga 500 and 1200 computer to get myself into owning these type of computers please let me know where to buy these things
Best answer to that problem would be "let's make whole documentation about how to produce every single chip from the boards of our beloved computers, to make a way for future generations to be able to build them once again". Reverse engineer what we can, aqquire old data about methods used in production, and let's write down everything we can to create one, huge database with recipes for old, abadoned technology for everyone to make, modify and keep alive.
Is it massive and incredibly hard project? Of course! But here, there are over 100k subscribers, even more are in other channels. Let's create something like "The Gutenberg Project", but for computer technology - to obtain and preserve methods of production for those old devices.
Excellent idea, I love the concept of some store you can go to and browse old chip fab formulas, maybe some day we can just "print them ourselves" when the older fabrication processes become like 3D printer technology.
This.
@Daniel PG I am from Poland - here, apple computers are not commonly used. Desktops, used proffesional machines (like Dell Precision, Dell Inspiron) and gaming laptops like ROG, Alien etc. are the most common. There are many young guys that are building their dream computers, because it is cheaper than paying for overpriced Mac (in terms price - computing power) with not commonly used software around here xD
I gave up on an IT tech school thing in the early 90s because I sucked at soldering. I have spastic mild to moderate cerebral palsy. I wasn't failing the segment, I was failing the work. When failing something, to try to make myself and my group feel better, I try to bring some kind of levity to situations. A sizable traffic pileup situation left me late for class. I was only about 15 minutes late, but the other members of my class were already working the practical. By this point my physicality was showing. I walked in, took a good inhale, and proclaimed, in my best sergeant voice, "I LOVE the smell of solder in the morning!" Flux went all over all kinds of boards as people laughed. It was actually the only time I was /late/ and I'd passed out of the algebra/geometry class with flying colors without taking it. He asked about the traffic thing, and, smiling, said even employers that expect punctuality understand unforeseen circumstances (He hated late people). "Heck of an intro, though."
I actually agree with you. That's why in my opinion, the A500maxi would be significant. I like to shelve my machines once that one is out.
Last year, someone loaned James May a classic car to review. I believe it was a MGB Roadster. The car had been stripped down with its parts removed and converted into an electric powered vehicle. James being a collector of classic and vintage cars, had to admit, the car's performance, road handling and reliability was much better than the original, and was joy to ride. He mentioned getting hold of old parts was getting very challenging in the modern age. Rather than scrapping the vehicle, it allowed people to experience the spirit of the ride. I can relate that with your video and my C64, which is more of a collector's piece and make use of the mini, but I do miss the loading screens. As you're aware, the SID Chip is getting rarer to find these days. The people on Flee Bay are putting prices up based on supply and demand.
I'm wondering whether the blinking caps lock could be a virus symptom, I have vague memories of a some Amiga viruses causing that symptom...
This is kinda case in point of why I'm digitizing all of my games for pc/console and setting the Orignal discs/carts safely in storage
Agreed my friend. I stopped worrying about original hardware years ago, especially when we invested in the MiSTer FPGA. I just dont see the point in spending all the money, time, resources, and headaches with the OG stuff anymore when it's this easy to replicate the exact same thing on modern hardware. Love what you've done with the mini / maxi project! 10/10 mate
If there was a point, if it were easy, if it were free, then it wouldn't be a hobby. :) UAE takes minutes compared to MiSTer and is good-enough for 90% of punters out there, but running some software easily and quickly isn't part of the retro hardware hobby.
@@espressomatic correct.
I'm wondering how to get my old Amiga text files off my Amiga disks and transferring those text files into files for Word? Is that possible?
You have some very good points that have changed my mind. Maybe it's cool to have the real hardware to run from time to time but for the most part run it on emulation. There's are so many positives that outweigh the negatives that I don't see a reason why to keep using the real hardware.
There is a reason I like clones of original hardware that uses as much brand new stuff based on the old tech as possible. Would love for manufacturers to make new copies of the old chips. Also newer and newer ways to interface and integrate old tech into modern computers. So it can run the old stuff on the new stuff hardware level.
I have and use Amiga since 1988.
But I also use winuae, and have fun with Raspberries ...
Your idea of a mini in a maxi with a small usb key to have all your amiga stuff inside is so new , and such a level of inception that I just can say WOW !
Thank You !
NOPE. Use them every day. Times Change. People Change But the best of the best never changes. 8-Bit 4-Ever ! :-)
Amigas are actually 16bit or even 32bit computers but I still agree that 8 bits is all you need;)
Do you even know why he's saying this? These computers ARENT BEING MADE ANYMORE. WHAT IF YOU BREAK THEM FOREVER?
@@clostridiumtetani9947 Some people already saved many of them from forever death. Like I did...
You make a lot of good points. I've got a number of C64 breadbins (some work, some don't), monitors, C128, Amiga 1200, etc, etc. There's something immensely satisfying to me to load a game from disk on my faithful and beloved old 64, though I know there are a lot of easier and faster ways to do it. But I'm also scared that one day something will stop working - and it may be something I can't fix. I think I'd be very upset knowing that my original Commodore 64, the one I learned to program on, the one that steered me into the career I'm in today, was dead. Sort of like losing a part of my childhood and a good old friend. It's very silly - I know, but I think a lot of your viewers might feel the same way.
So now you really have me thinking - maybe I should just put my old commodore on display in a nice cabinet and use a Maxi or something similar instead. But I know, at some point, I'm going to want to grab an old disk, insert it into my hopefully still working 1541 disk drive, and wait patiently for it to load. Like the good old days.
Not silly at all. I think that’s a great plan. And taking them out of storage to play with now and then is a given. Otherwise there’s no point. And as I say, the nostalgia hit will be even more rewarding then.
There's no right or wrong in this. I have several Amigas, from "new" 500++ with everything extra to boxed chicken lips looking new. And I've got emulation on my PC. Going to buy a Mini. Different parts of the nostalgia demands different solutions. :)
Genuinely one of my favourite videos that you’ve made and you’ve made some greats. Loved the tone, it truly resonated. Thank you for the care and emotional investment you put into each video, especially this one.
Thank you
Your first video on the A500 Maxi build inspired me to build my own. I used a A1200 repro case with A500 keyboard, and A500 mini inside. Thanks!
Nicely done ! Love it ! 😍👍
5:33, spot on.
I've thought the same about classic car or motorbike restoration.
If you have to replace everything down to the nuts and bolts then it's no longer the same vehicle.
Also Trigger's broom with it's various handles and heads.
When i got my first soundcard in the 90s, i had the longer version on my DOS PC. It goes: "I'm completely operational, and all my circuits are functioning perfectly". The voice is HAL in the Movie "2001 Space Odyssey".
Love the startup sound - brings back memories - I had the exact same sample play on boot on my Acorn Archimedes 😀
Same startup as what my Dad had back in the day on his A1500. Any chance I can get the sound file so I can add it to my Dads A500 mini #Perifractic ?
My only encounter with an Amiga was playing Bubble Bobble at a friend's house in the mid nineties. Seeing it mentioned on your high score list instantly took me back to being 11 years old
Everything someone mentions the Ship of Theseus my British brain auto-translates it to Triggers Broom.
Man your videos are so poetic. We need to preserve existing old machines until technology could be able to make an exact clone from one... we are not so far from that.
I've thought about this too. I wouldn't be running any old computers 24/7, but a couple of hours here and there is okay. These computers are all going to break and be unrepairable one day regardless of whether or not you use them. They'll go bad simply from sitting on a shelf after enough time has passed. Might as well enjoy them while you still can.
Not only is a couple of hours here and there okay, but it actually increases life span of the capacitators.
Wonderful episode, Mr. Batman :) I really enjoyed this one. I have several old systems, but my main platforms are the commodore plus/4 (my first computer) and an Atari ST (which "found" me in a garbage bin a few years ago). I really love both systems and i program my visions (reaching back to the 80's) on both of them by using emulators, because i don't want to wear the machines out (on-off switching) and its easier/faster to develop on the emulator/PC anyway for me. From time to time i test on real hardhare as a proof of concept, but its more about seeing of pushing the boundaries, than having the everyday experience with these old systems, which i like to preserve as long as possible too. On the other hand, if the spare parts behave more or less like the original parts, i don't see any problems. In the 90's and 80's machines also failed and were repaired with new parts. But i see another issue coming towars us in a few decades. I think the next 40-50 years there will be no more people around, who will keep our retroscene alive with videos, demos and programming. The next generation (e.g. my son) will have their own retro systems, on which the will live their nostalgic feelings through...So all Commodores/Ataris/... and all the wonderful computers of that era will maybe suffer this maybe...
I really like how anyone with an electronics background comes up with interesting ways to tinker with old machines and interfaces some new hardware. I think that would be lost if everyone put the old hardware on a shelf. It's also fun watching folks resurrect old machines after some meticulous debugging. Personally, I like when I can use an old 80's/early-90's machine to perform some modern task and/or compare it to modern machines (i.e. sort of retro anthropology). Then again, I'm also nostalgic for old magnetic media so I'm not normal 🙂. Aside from modern accelerator boards that replace too much of the original machine, a chip replacement via an FPGA/CPLD/modern-replica still retains the circuitry of the original hardware's motherboard.
I definitely use emulation as it can be convenient when trying out something. I haven't been too into clones, though I do own one FPGA-based replica. As for how long these machines will last? I don't imagine many people born after 2000 will be invested in old hardware of the 80's and 90's so once we move on, the machines will stop being used (i.e. I think the hardware will outlast us 😕)
Superb video, and the raised points will generate healthy discussion thoughtout this community. The honesty of your thoughts and feeling is very evident..
Thank you Howie.
*Great video again, mate! loved it as it was Amiga content, but depressing and sad in some ways. I really miss the good old days with the Amigas! I feel when you add bits it takes the soul out of it, personally. just wanna haveeverything how it was back in the day. New ones and whatnots are like well cool still, but, well, 1 of each is good lol* 👍💪
You've inspired me here. I've manged to get the image I dumped from my A500 compact flash running on the A500 mini. It's now running the new(ish) 3.2.1. Neat.
Thanks for sharing your Amiga journey, Peri. I never had an Amiga - I went from C64 to Commodore's MS-DOS PC in the early 80s and have been a PC user ever since. I have an old Commodore C64 I am looking re-home.
That sysinfo speed is insane, with a powerful mac and fs-uae I'm getting around 3x A4000
I didn't realize this was a thing. I've got about 15 A500s sitting in my cupboard out in the garage. Never could pass up rescuing an orphan in a secondhand store.
I did buy an A530 Turbo in 94 not your one but had a stroke of luck and got one the same spec as yours for £300. The speed boost was a real boon for assembly programming. I just took mine out after 25 years and its still working, hard drive is on its last legs though. Glad to see you were able to find another.
Great video! Now I want to do a similar build.😮
I made a decision a while ago to stop using my retro hardware and just have it on display once I had moved all the digital assets to modern storage.
Smoking power supplies, exploding capacitors, mechanical failures, aging magnetic media and random gremlins make emulation a very attractive option.
Definitely food for thought. I do find myself that using the real hardware triggers a lot of childhood memories, but can appreciate that what I am using is 30+ years in age and one day is going to fail and go to heaven.
I also have Cloanto Amiga Forever on my PC mainly to build and test my HDF images before transferring to the Amiga.
Your archive of personal boot stuff is enviable. I ebayed every physical Amiga thing I had in the early 2000s - and the prices they fetched were very nice. But I never thought to back up my Amiga 1200 HD environment to a form I could have used later with an emulator. It would be fun to bring up the old Director-driven sequences of DPaint frames again.
Back in the days I had the same problem with my Amiga keyboard. Sometimes it worked well and sometimes didn't.
I take the Amiga to the Commodore service for repair and they detected that the fault was on a keyboard chip and not in the CPU. They changed it and since then it has not given more problem!
I Hope this will help you with your Amiga problem!
Loot! that takes me back, I wasn't far from you too but can't even remember where I got my A1200 from lol
All I can say is that I am super jealous! Don't know how long it took you or how much you have spent to built a retro cave like that, but it is worth it!! You also gave me an idea for a future project, that is if I am still able to boot my old Amiga500 and save it from oblivion...
When a human gets a hip replacement, new knees, prosthetic legs, even an artificial heart... The end result is that their soul is still intact, they are still human.
No matter what is replaced on our beloved old rigs, their heart and souls still remain, because we are their heart and souls.
But what happens when we get a portion of our brain repaired with an artificial replacement?
That technology isn't here, now, but it will be someday.
@@gmwithrow If we understood the brain enough for that to be safe enough to even try, we'd be so simple we couldn't.
Great video! And I totally agree with the practical approach - whatever you think about using original hardware, this is more economical and allows for more people to enjoy it, is easier in maintenance and it saves the originals from wear.
Food for thought. I still have found memories of using original hardware, and modding joysticks
Your voice brightens my day so soothing I can imagine your a real nice chap in real life.
Aw cheers mate
I have a couple of Danish built machines of which I have the last surviving units, and my goal is to restore them, get them working AND built emulators so that the functionality of the machines can be preserved.
If I don't do it, nobody else can. So yes, I very much agree - I am very cautious about when and for how long these systems are powered on :)
This exercise will surely help with future recreations of all your retrotech in the metaverse😜
This is a really important challenge which must be faced by all of us in the Retro Community. As the owner of several Commodore 64s, including my first from 1983, it is true that being old machines, they are prone to breaking down and finding parts for them and someone who can ably repair them is a challenge. Yet I am loath to place it on a glass shelf as a "display item". Vintage computers, like vintage cars were built to be enjoyed. I would much rather face the challenge of keeping ageing computers running, than locking them away "only to look at". That said there is a middle ground - use the old Commodore 64s (or Amigas), but if you plan on having a "30 hour session", an emulator may be the way to go to help prolong the life of our cherished silicon souls - and yes this may mean having to go down the "Cherry 2000" path of finding rare parts when they do break down! For those of us who grew up with these machines, the sense of nostalgia is strongest when using the original equipment - the emulators are great, but you just never get the same experience.
I haven't switched my A-1200 on since 20 years. I guess I earned a little running time and I'm going to start using it!
Check battery leakage 😲
Interesting Psion Series 7 u got there. Always wanted one but never got around looking for it because my Psion Series 5MX served me well for several decades.
Never seen an Amiga in real life and never heard of it (only PCs are available in where I am from) until I watch these videos, thanks for sharing!
Wordsworth, I used it all the time on my A1200, I found it so easy to use, when I eventually decided to get a PC around 1998, I found Microsoft Word a pain, but then discovered Digita made a PC version with full compatibility with Amiga files, I still use it today, unfortunately it will only work up to Windows XP, happy days.
Awesome video Chris! That just got me more on page with the whole idea of putting my breadbin on the shelf as well. It's something I was actually moving towards, just the pull to using the breadbin together with the Commodore 1702 monitor I have here, is just such an experience I have been enjoying quite some over the past few years.
But after finally getting a MEGA65 and fooling around with the FPGA for a bit, I'm starting to feel like that machine will be the way to move forward for me personally. All I want is a working C64 machine that doesn't feel like emulation. A working A500 or something Amiga would be nice to have on the side for kicks, but that's not even essential for me personally.
There is a very compatible C64 core already, I think it was ported over from the MiSTer community. Now just hoping someone will drop an Amiga core for fun. I'm also confident they'll fix the issues with C64 compatibility in the main M65/C65 core as well, which would be even better, making it a very nice "this could have been C65" like experience.
So yeah, working on a game room / retro cave here soonish and I'll think I'll be putting my breadbin and essentials in some display case of sorts, while having a MEGA65 and hopefully soon a Spectrum Next sitting side by side in the main workspace area of sorts. Will see.
I think the way you stated was great as well as emulation-
I love how I could boot up an old C64 with a Datasette and show the original load time and trial we originally had. But at some stage convenience takes a lead. Also as chips get more infrequent then old plastics of cases/keyboards can be repurposed rather than landfilled/ new plastic made.
I bought my Amiga A600 in April 1994, I put it in the loft in December 2000 and took it out again in May 2004. So the vast majority of the last 28 years it has been used regularly. I do use it regularly, perhaps that helps.
I recently played Amiga games on the Miyoo mini handheld. Instant nostalgia in the size of a deck of cards.
For workbench and things that require a keyboard I use a raspberry pi 400 with pimiga and a HDMI to scart converter.
Congratulations on 128K (subscribers)!
Thanks!
Nice vid.. watching it got me thinking.. wonder if there’s any way to emulate/plug in a parallel printer to your A1200 maxi for that full Wordsworth experience? ;)
I feel very fortunate,as poor my family was back in the day I got to experience computing on the MSX1, 2, A500 and A1200. I too backed up my old hdd workbench with most of the data in tact, absolutely over the moon to see it all back up and running again!
I think even the old hardware should used and experienced. As you said replacement parts become available by labour of love at some point.
Emulators only take you so far, the sights and sounds of a real tube monitor, the high pitch whine, the headache inducing interlace modes, the grinding sounds of the floppy drive are all part of it to me. I'll keep my msx and amiga computers and monitor in working condition for as long as I'm able. And I'd like to design and build my own msx2 some day too, including a case machined out of aluminium!
For someone who needs high reliability with these for your CZcams production this makes a lot of sense. I really with there was one or two high quality resources for new Amiga
Love this video, always do love your videos, but this was a really thought provoking look at what we do with our retro hardware and why. I am a small collector (at the moment ;) ) and its raised the question as to if we preserve our collections for our own enjoyment and nostalgia or to hand over and preserve for beyond our usage. Grateful that we do have access to emulators and modern recreations but love the OG hardware.
One great feature of the Amiga OS was the assign command. I recently migrated my old Amiga filesystem to a single HDF image. Without the assign command this wouldn't have been possible as my old Amiga harddrive had multiple partitions/volumes present on it.
5:50 "I am more pesimistic, so my guess is Tuesday"🤣🤣🤣
This is a very interesting idea. I have wondered about the longevity of my classic machines myself if I keep them turned on and using them. The point is to use them though, otherwise they are useless museum pieces. I think the best solution might be to use them and just keep up maintenance on them as parts fail and need to be replaced. The only thing that worries me are quality rare parts that are no longer made, like trinitron crts… once they are all used up, we won’t see them in use ever again. :(
I remember this one video game, they would sing this weird song
"are you there space station amigos oh"
Wow another great video from Perifratic Studios, and I don't know if I should be happy for you, or Jealous, but I will be watching this video again for sure and donating!
Thank you for your kind words! Means a lot 👍🕹️
My A1200T with 68060, PPC and BVision stoppe working last December... I felt like someone from my family passed on, it was a sad day and still now, I use a very well configurated WinUAE but I miss to use my floppy disks...
When just the forearms were in frame at 20:38 and 21:32 Perifracitc's skin looks so smooth that for a moment I thought it was Ladyfractic 😅
The problem, with "that" blinking CAPS LOCK led, should be on the keyboard motherboard, where the two leds are located. It could be the 6570 chip, but usually you should check, in order: 1) transistors/diodes solder joints 2) 6570 chip solder joints.
Cheers, M
I had the Commodore Vic 20 was my first computer. Then later the Amiga 500. Before moving on to the 386 desktop.
I do love the look of that 🎹.
You just described "Ship of Theseus" when speaking on your A500.. I came to the same realization with upgrading/modding all my old computers (ie; Classic Macs, Commodores, Game Consoles, etc... ) I previously restored cars and realized the same thing.. there are always debates of restoring everything to original stock vs "hoy-rodding" a classic car. both have their pros and cons. Practical or otherwise. What it boils down to, one still just wants to drive a car and enjoy the experience. So for me, having an emulator in a classic casing is perfect for me NES, SNES, PS1, Sega Mega Drive classics that are modded are great and inexpensive ways to enjoy a nostalgic experience.
Great video as always. I was always a firm advocate regarding the use of original hardware, but as my Amigas continued to go wrong - I wouldn't know what new issue would come up every time I switched them on - I started to use emulation more. The arrival of the C64 Maxi and A500 Mini were game changers for me as they have the spirit of the old machines, feel authentic (in their own way) and offer modern ease-of-life solutions such as save states (who has the time to play these old games all the way through in one sitting?). Plus, the community surrounding these machines is welcoming and exciting, so it feels like we are all connected by our love for these machines. At the end of the day, do whatever feels right for you..
One thing I would add is that these machines only hold nostalgia for those who grew up with them, so in the future, when all the original machines die.. only those born between 1970 - 1980(ish) will mourn their passing (if we are even still around - scary thought). Younger gamers will be more than happy with FGPA / Emulated / Mini modern solutions to experience the, now ancient, games.
Keep up the great videos - they bring a great deal of joy to so many of us!
Blows my mind that I've had the chance to exchange words with someone who has his own IMDB page, and an impressive one at that.
Great video and it's a subject I often think about - the line between retro and vintage gaming I guess, and where you stand on it can become quite blurred! For me I absolutely want to use the same controls as the original hardware - be it a joystick or keyboard - and as crucially a display from the same period. Once those are fulfilled though, I'm less particular about the actual hardware driving the insides. Sure it needs to be as accurate as possible, but it doesn't have to be original hardware all of the time. Likewise for loading games. I've lived enough of my life waiting for cassettes to load, so I'm happy to now use SD loaders, either on original hardware or through some kind of emulation. Interlaced RF connections may be most authentic, but I'm also happy with RGB, especially since many of our memories are rose tinted anyway. I'd like to echo some other comments here that the Mister project is a great solution to a lot of this, especially when coupled with a means to connect vintage controllers or similar. Check out the console-ised Mister projects at RMC, as that may be the future for me while I leave my original hardware mostly for display. That said, that's one of the things I love the most about my Vectrex, that it delivers a unique experience you need original hardware for. I really enjoy firing-up that thing!
it part a bigger question on restoration, as a good example if have very rear classic car, and it was totally smash, say it want of a cliff, or tank went over it, and the only bits still serviceable was steering wheel and speedometer, could rebuild the car from two bits and clamed it was the same car, or an even simpler model say you had 50 year old broom (a brush with long handle), and then state over the year it 5 new brush heads and 3 new handles, is it the still same broom from 50 year ago?
@@dh2032 exactly!
Peri I think that it truly is a Chip of Theseus paradox. If someone like classic muscle cars like a '67 Mustang for example and then you update the interior, add HID lights, USB charging and Apple Play, that may be okay but where do you draw the line? Can you keep adding and replacing things inside like cruise control, anti-lock brakes, front and side airbags, collision avoidance, etc. At what point is it no longer a '67 Mustang? It's up to each individual to decide how much of a "purist" he/she is.
As far as loss of old chips, I don't think that will be a problem because all we need to preserve is the schematic for the chip and ultimately 3D printing will advance to the point where we can all print new SID chips or whatever else we need. Excellent video.
My computers will die on the battlefield and not old on their deathbeds.
Sad but glorious.
I need to get them working first before I can retire them. I see your point but I say have fun with what you got.
You could try a UPS, just make sure its a pure sine-wave double conversion one. 2:22
2 years ago I did something similar to this with a ZX Spectrum... I created a USB keyboard controller out of an Arduino pro-micro which connected to the spectrum's original keyboard membrane and then added a usb hub inside the case along with a USB key that contained a spectrum emulator and games. Whenever I want to play on my speccy, I just plugged the USB lead into my PC and the USB emulator drive opens, double click on the emulator and away I go with the original look and feel of a real ZX Spectrum.
If you have a fully working machine and you shelf it, never to be used, then surely it might just as well be a non-working machine. In a way, it's even more tragic. In my opinion, it's far better for a machine to go down doing what it was designed for. We only live once, let's burn out not fade away.
I agree with this, and I'd add - if it burns out and you have the will to fix it to keep it going, do it. All-original hardware is very cool of course, but repairs and mods are part of the spirit of these old machines :)
I also had this weird issue with A500s
That had the very late rev6a and rev8 boards
Where it would show guru meditation if more than 512k was installed and i turned it off and on without at least a 2 minute gap in between. Whereas normally with the standard 512k or with an earlier revision of the board with expanded ram, 5 seconds would do just fine
I had the same issues with my old Hardware in 2016 and sold all my original computers and consoles. With the rise of the Raspi 3B it was perfectly clear wohin die Reise geht.
Quite a departure from the Perifractic that we watched put a motherboard in a dishwasher Or maybe the field found system rebuild.
It's amazing how we went from using these as a child, having a grand restoration, and now a second decline.
Hopefully in short time we can make easily available full replacement systems yet again
Have you tried the "putting a piece of cardboard between the keyboard and the motherboard" trick? That helped fix the Caps Lock blinking issue on my A500.
I was actually amazed that my old A500 worked perfectly after being in it's box for over 20 years when I took it out a few years ago. Even the old 120MB harddrive worked flawlessly. I had expected at least some issues but there were none. Did recap it anyway.
My A4000 is another chapter though. It worked absolutely perfectly up until a few years ago, I had kept using it regularly so it never sat unused for very long. When it started showing problems it went downhill rather quickly though. It's partially fixed but there's still some issues that I can't get my head around but I will get there eventually.
I did exactly the same, even though I still have my amiga gear I connected it up to my pc about 20 years ago to create a backup image of the HDD & that's what winuae boots from.
Thanks for sharing. 😉👌🏻
I have used a Amstrad PCW at Collage back in 1990 and a BBC Micro too when I was sdcool we had a BBC Micro then Acon micro computer in 1987 but at I had a Amstrad CPC 464 then I had a Amstrad 464plus then in 1992 I got a AMIGA 500plus and today I have a AMIGA 500plus.
This brought to mind a thoughts I had watching RMC recently. How long will the retro community be around for as surely more modern consoles are becoming almost impossible to repair these days and the nostalgia felt by original owners of 70s/80s even 90s machines may not carry forward to the generations following us ? Also, there is a different feeling of nostalgia using original systems compared to emulation. Owning the C64 maxi, I thought it would feel better but honestly if I think back to when I loaded Ghostbusters for the first time from tape, listened to the Daley Thompson’s Decathlon music whilst it loaded or even the first time I connected my disk drive and printer there is no comparison. Understandably the old hardware won’t last forever and as a bi-product of the success of the retro community, finding original hardware at a reasonable price is next to impossible. So the emulation market is somehow filling this gap. The chip shortage won’t last forever, but if we want the retro community to thrive then as the old farts we are all becoming we need to find a way to pass on the torch to our kids or even grandkids if we can distract them from their mobile devices which are replaced so often now, with apps and operating systems that come and go controlled by huge enterprises that I doubt in 30 years Pokemon Go will ever be emulated. Keep up the good work because my kids (two daughters and one son) watch your channel and others with mum and dad so the Fractic family names, “PCB Way!” (and arm gesture) are already embedded in their memories and it is the ‘family’ emulation devices (handheld and TV connected) never referred to a ‘dad’s games - hands off’ which get played with more often these days because frankly the games are more fun, original and challenging. But will their nostalgia be with using those emulators rather than original kit because frankly the retro interest has driven prices up so high very few of us can afford to buy back what we gave away or sold when we didn’t know any better ?