What’s so nice about this channel is that no matter how much each one of you points out “flaws” in the other one’s work or methodology, the other one will alway reply with very convincing arguments, being so confident in their work. Each time it’s like “oh, he really showed him this time” or “how is he going to recover from that one”, and you both always find the way to do exactly that. This back and forth between you is entertaining and fun to watch.
I don't think they're bickering. These are two grown men that are offering experienced and reasoned criticisms, and discussing them. I wish everyone could discuss politics like this. We'd all get a lot less stupid. Fuck, I love this channel.
The difference is that John rebuilds the same machine over and over again while Matthias likes to hoard multiple versions of the same machine. Matthias is generally looking to solve a specific problem and doesn't go looking for other problems to find new solutions to when there already is a working solution to them. For John the project is more of an excuse to try solving different problems.
I don't always aim to get everything right. Some things are experiments. Like my first dust collector, my first bandsaw (yes, that was an experiment), and my first air cleaner. The jointer actually was also an experiment, but I figured it had enough of a chance to work just right so I worked out the details in CAD ahead of time. The forklift toy - that was intact in the attic because there WAS an attic, and because I hadn't thought of a use for those motors since then - especially once I moved away! In that video ,I actually salvaged one of the motors off it, but i got so many comments about not destroying it, I figued it would be fun to try to make it work again. I still have the air raid siren that I built in 2012 in once piece, mainly because I haven't used the motor for something else yet.
Hi Matthias, I recognise it's you because of the context, but perhaps it's an idea to sign your comments? Then it's clear who's talking, even if the context doesn't make it clear. Thank you!
Heisz Wandel project The two of you need to swap a machine of the same type that you have made, and try to improve on each others work, then swap back. If you are open minded with it you could both maybe end up with a better machine and a few good videos out of it.
i think this has not to be escaleted into a war, i mean both have great skills and there is enough place. It like some buy bosch handheld drills otheres prefer the makita handheld drills, there is no one fits all. So comeptition is good but dont get mad at it.
3:24 The theoretical purpose (and I'm not sure how well it actually works) of the wooden leaf spring in Matthias' band saw is to reduce/buffer the peaks in blades tension due to oscillations in the frame. Since the frame of a band saw has a reciprocating mass/inertia to it (the entire top half of the saw), vibration will cause high frequency increase/decrease in blade tension as the frame flexes to accommodate irregularity in the wheel and/or any sudden force on the blade that will start an oscillation of the frame. Since the leaf spring is acting between the frame and the wheel, it can (theoretically) quickly take up some of that slack and buffer some of the difference. When the frame bends in oscillation the tension on the blade drops, and the spring pulls the wheel up a little. And vice versa, when the frame extends in oscillation, the spring will give a little, so the tension on the blade doesn't peak as high. A spring can do this because it exerts a much greater force over distance than its own inertia. A hanging motor exerts only the force that is proportional to its mass/inertia, so it's about the worst spring you could imagine, worse than the frame of the saw. You have added a reciprocating mass, not a spring - a reciprocating mass much larger than just the top half of a conventional saw. If it weren't locked to a threaded rod, it would increase the problem. Since it is locked to a threaded rod, it really makes not much difference either way, other than what movement can occur due to thread slop...but that little bit of movement, if any, can only make things worse, not better. The motor bouncing up/down should increase/intensify the peaks and valleys in blade tension under most circumstances. If the threads are so tight and/or the motor so heavy that it never moves up/down, then it is doing nothing. And that subframe and rail system is a long way to go for nothing.
Super cool, I’m a huge fan of Matthias’s work and his style, however I’ve just realised clearly now that I think and work a lot like you, the way you explained it in this video... Watching you both go back an forth like this makes us viewers (some😉) think much deeper about your thinking processes, the work that goes behind the scenes and the different approaches to problem solving and designing... and it’s so much fun watching the (non-) animosity too... Thank yous 👍🏻
I'm a computer programmer and I love listening to these guys talk---it's the very same in programming. It's really nice to see we all, as humans, tinker the same.
Prototypes are important - and mine tend to enter service and stay there. I built my first all-birch bookshelves as a learning experience and thirty years later they still adorn my bedroom. I've long ago stopped seeing the things I did wrong, though at first they bothered me immensely.
Ways Matthias and John are similar: creative, independent thinkers, mold breakers, skeptics, down to earth, individualists, wysiwygs, stubborn, courageous, iconoclasts
I think the tension adjustment on the bottom makes a lot of sense. If you get any slippage from vibrations it would tend to tighten it rather than loosening. But I guess that assumes you are getting some slipping on that screw.
Splitting up the tilt and tensioning functions means you are adding the tensioning function to the power delivery function on the bottom wheel. So for you, it is easier to build a sub frame to hold the motor and bottom wheel bearing block and pulley. Add a hole and a coupler on the bottom for the tensioning rod. But it can't just hang there in the nether, loosey goosey, can it? The subframe has to be carefully fit to match the inside of the case or it has to slide in rails of some sort, right? You made a super simple tilt mechanism for the top wheel right in the frame/skin of the saw. Take it one step further. You could make the same thing on a small plate of steel. It's still super simple. Bend/affix a tab to the top for holding the coupler/tensioning rod. It's still super simple. Now the hard part is you have to add a couple rails to the frame for this plate to slide up/down in (so it's not just hanging in the nether, loosey goosey). But this is the same problem you tackled when you built your much bigger subframe for the motor and the bottom bearing block. Finally, you just cut a slot through the back of the frame/skin so the tilt knob has clearance when you tension the blade (moving this whole shebang up/down).
I have not watched all the back and forth but I get the impression by the amount of talk and the relative lack of sketches and photos to support the arguments behind the different design iterations that this is an ego infused debate. I design new products from scratch and often find myself messing with foam board or running to the machine shop to test a hypothesis before “hardening up” the concept and moving it to engineering and CAD. Therefore I do not see tinkerer and engineer as mutually exclusive job descriptions. I have seen a lot of engineering struggled through on CAD at great length, with many time-to-market-killing prototyping/re-design cycles precisely because those involved did not take a break from their computers and got their hands into the materials and real life mechanics to make informed design decisions. Yes one can iterate and “Tinker” on the screen but many breakthrough moments result from playful-like experimentation.
"you seem to be happy to settle for something that just works the way you envisioned it in the first place" - so how many times did he redo the pantarouter again?
I’m the same way as you John. Sometimes you build something the way you want only to discover you need to rebuild it the way you need. And you learn from both builds.
This channel is yours and you have the ultimate right to do anything you want which will improve your individual projects to make it work to its potential. You and Matthias have laid down a very good foundation for all us to learn from. Just ignore the BS comment and just think of us who appreciate what you're doing. From me, your avid fan from the Philippines >>> I am very much grateful for allowing me to be a part of your channels and thank you very much for your tutorials :)
I really do hope that the direction of both of your channels is not going to go into constant nit-picking and bashing each other. I honestly do enjoy both of your channels, both of your approaches to your projects, as well as your insight, wisdom, and maybe showing us a new way to get from point A to point B. But if that is going to be the new norm for you guys, I might focus my attention on other channels.
You are both excellent at what you do. Each on its own approach. I'm making all kinds of stuff but have my own approach to. Besides that, I''m mostly thinking about making stuff in Iron because I'm used to as a welder. So I see you as my brothers in making all kind of weird stuff and please, go on doing it.
I think that what it comes down to is that Matthias puts the extra effort into his projects before he starts them, whereas yours comes after they've taken actual shape.
I like to keep my old stuff but sometimes it gets cannibalized when I NEED that part and I don't have time to get a new one or don't want to spend the additional money.
I just watched all videos in the channel. This "Heisz-Wandel condensate" is better than that Bose-Einstein rubbish thing, Hehehe ! Thanks for sharing !
is this just to keep interest in this ,keep viewers watching ,taking an interest,to me they both contribute good and interesting videos,based on interest,not bothered about who's best,not interested,just keep doing your own thing guys,just keep your eyes on me in the future,i'am going to be there,well try anyway
Here’s an idea. You should each choose one of your machines (that there are plans for) for the other to build and honestly critique throughout. Like build each other’s box joint jigs, or sander etc. yeah I know you don’t need another one. So give it away or something.
To quote a line from the 1600 play Hamlet by William Shakespeare "doth protest too much, methinks" ... over eight minutes of explaining and going into details on why you did things ... are you SURE that, even though you and Mr. Wandel are the best of friends and this is supposed to be friendly sparing, that Mathias isn't hitting a nerve, pushing a button, getting too close to home? Maybe a step back, a time-out of sorts, would be good to preserve the friendship. On the other hand makes for good viewing.
You are singing to the choir (said they are best of friends) ... I'm long time subscriber to both ... my post was in jest, same as videos on this channel .. although ... best of friends do KNOW all the other persons triggers and buttons to push to get a rise ... hmmmmmmm.
what they didn't tell us is that this was all worked out over a couple of pints at the pub..... and we are supplying good value for their next laugh-in at the pub And I'm very happy to be part of it all!
I view John more as a "lets do this just for the heck of it" type. That may turn out better or worse, but he (and us, too) always learn something along the way. I've seen John seem overly defensive of an arguably worse aproach to something, but that's usually in response to criticism not of the project itself, but of him trying something unorthodox to begin with.
I know you guys like to bust each others chops. But I have a question, Are there any limits to it? Meaning are there any projects that are off limits to ride each other about?
I notice so many folks describing the 2 different approaches so here's my stab at it. Matthias defines a successful project as one worth reproducing endlessly. John's goal is just to make something that works. He doesn't care if he would do it different the next time.
In the words of Jordan Peterson: Make friends with what you DONT know rather than making friends with what you DO know. In this sense, you're project is never complete and you can always learn, grow and improve.
Although I like both versions of the saw, I much prefer yours John, as it is not reliant on the strength of wood or glued joints, metal is also more forgiving in it's nature, figures exist for the loads etc, and is easily modified, I also think that the idea of the tilt alone at the top is vastly more elegant, both work of course, but I expect yours would be easier to build.
I like the look of Johns saw better, but still plan to build Mathias'...Haven't you seen Matthias pulling himself up on his band-saw? With metal I commonly see that joints are usually the weaker points, whereas with wood they, when done right, are usually the stronger points. Any flexing or stretching of the wood is easily adjusted away. Actually one of the reasons Matthias had to add some form of spring to his band-saw is to compensate for the rigidity of his frame. Where, as John pointed out, his frame is the spring.
Joints are joints, no matter what the material is - they can be strong or they can be weak, depending on how you put them together. A good analogy for building a band saw from either material is to look at roller coasters, steel vs wood frame. You can do stuff with steel that is virtually impossible to do with wood. And although the frame Matthias designed is stiff, it will still act as a spring. The frame is the main spring that acts against the blade tension for all band saws.
I dont watch the bullshit vids, ever. Box joint jigs, pantorouter, stuff that can help or inspire- that's what it's all about for me. Opinions are like assholes, and so forth. But rave on, dear comrades, as is your right.
Enginuity is king, Your engineering follows the rule of application and of your supply. Which is better, is irrelevant if both perform equally well for effort input. Wandel depends on his computer first which is planning more.. but Heize more by hook and by crook, meh! it is relative. If I had to make one, relative to me, plans is friken , nice to use. 3D bla bla bla...haha.
Let's settle this- a duel! Each of you build a tilting compound miter planning tapering dovetailed draw-bored plywood banded painted thing-a-ma-boper and we'll be satisfied...
The traditional design is simpler than your own. I do understand that we look to innovate, but few develop the skills for design critique. Whether or not Matthias got that skill from school or through his dabbling, it is something that he has developed further than yourself. The lack of satisfaction in your designs comes from a lack of appropriate planning and your likening of gold plating your design.
John, dont forget that Mathias makes planes as a product. And if he makes something half experimental, half perfect. Then the plans would not be as much worth....
is this just a video of someone defending the way he does things in HIS shop? what is the point of even comparing? is there some ultimate goal here? this kind of stuff is boring. look at me I'm a troll. so this is what it's like.
Simply put, this rebuttal was too dragged out to watch. I did get what you were saying in the first few minutes. Then you really started to drag. Note there is always more than one way to design something. So long as the end result is working as intended. Who really cares how you got there? Not I. I've been building machines for over 40 years now and can clearly see benefits and drawbacks to both designs.
Put your big mouth aside long enough to take the time to make some videos about the machines you have built. You'll find out how easy it all is to please stooges who complain about what you are giving them for free.
If Matthias gets everything "perfect" right from the get go, why did he just build version 3 of the pantorouter. Sometimes change makes good viewing. John, I remember a year or so ago you had to take your band saw apart. There was much grunting culminating in a loud expletive; that was one of your best you tube moments.
I believe you two are reminding us of the value of a debate. Thank you, more please!
What’s so nice about this channel is that no matter how much each one of you points out “flaws” in the other one’s work or methodology, the other one will alway reply with very convincing arguments, being so confident in their work. Each time it’s like “oh, he really showed him this time” or “how is he going to recover from that one”, and you both always find the way to do exactly that.
This back and forth between you is entertaining and fun to watch.
Getting tiresome. They need to quit bickering.
I don't think they're bickering. These are two grown men that are offering experienced and reasoned criticisms, and discussing them.
I wish everyone could discuss politics like this. We'd all get a lot less stupid.
Fuck, I love this channel.
Matthias is a little bit Country. John’s a little bit Rock ‘n’ Roll.
The difference is that John rebuilds the same machine over and over again while Matthias likes to hoard multiple versions of the same machine. Matthias is generally looking to solve a specific problem and doesn't go looking for other problems to find new solutions to when there already is a working solution to them. For John the project is more of an excuse to try solving different problems.
I don't always aim to get everything right. Some things are experiments.
Like my first dust collector, my first bandsaw (yes, that was an experiment), and my first air cleaner.
The jointer actually was also an experiment, but I figured it had enough of a chance to work just right so I worked out the details in CAD ahead of time.
The forklift toy - that was intact in the attic because there WAS an attic, and because I hadn't thought of a use for those motors since then - especially once I moved away! In that video ,I actually salvaged one of the motors off it, but i got so many comments about not destroying it, I figued it would be fun to try to make it work again.
I still have the air raid siren that I built in 2012 in once piece, mainly because I haven't used the motor for something else yet.
Hi Matthias, I recognise it's you because of the context, but perhaps it's an idea to sign your comments? Then it's clear who's talking, even if the context doesn't make it clear. Thank you!
Thumbs up for the shirt, John :)
Bas Apon I thought I recognized John.
Heisz Wandel project The two of you need to swap a machine of the same type that you have made, and try to improve on each others work, then swap back. If you are open minded with it you could both maybe end up with a better machine and a few good videos out of it.
i think this has not to be escaleted into a war, i mean both have great skills and there is enough place. It like some buy bosch handheld drills otheres prefer the makita handheld drills, there is no one fits all. So comeptition is good but dont get mad at it.
3:24 The theoretical purpose (and I'm not sure how well it actually works) of the wooden leaf spring in Matthias' band saw is to reduce/buffer the peaks in blades tension due to oscillations in the frame. Since the frame of a band saw has a reciprocating mass/inertia to it (the entire top half of the saw), vibration will cause high frequency increase/decrease in blade tension as the frame flexes to accommodate irregularity in the wheel and/or any sudden force on the blade that will start an oscillation of the frame. Since the leaf spring is acting between the frame and the wheel, it can (theoretically) quickly take up some of that slack and buffer some of the difference. When the frame bends in oscillation the tension on the blade drops, and the spring pulls the wheel up a little. And vice versa, when the frame extends in oscillation, the spring will give a little, so the tension on the blade doesn't peak as high. A spring can do this because it exerts a much greater force over distance than its own inertia.
A hanging motor exerts only the force that is proportional to its mass/inertia, so it's about the worst spring you could imagine, worse than the frame of the saw. You have added a reciprocating mass, not a spring - a reciprocating mass much larger than just the top half of a conventional saw. If it weren't locked to a threaded rod, it would increase the problem. Since it is locked to a threaded rod, it really makes not much difference either way, other than what movement can occur due to thread slop...but that little bit of movement, if any, can only make things worse, not better. The motor bouncing up/down should increase/intensify the peaks and valleys in blade tension under most circumstances. If the threads are so tight and/or the motor so heavy that it never moves up/down, then it is doing nothing. And that subframe and rail system is a long way to go for nothing.
This back and forth is the coolest thing on CZcams right now.
I appreciate the product placement. :)
DIY Builds Van Halen!!
You guys are both awesome. We are lucky to have you share your knowledge and ideas with all of us.
Super cool, I’m a huge fan of Matthias’s work and his style, however I’ve just realised clearly now that I think and work a lot like you, the way you explained it in this video...
Watching you both go back an forth like this makes us viewers (some😉) think much deeper about your thinking processes, the work that goes behind the scenes and the different approaches to problem solving and designing...
and it’s so much fun watching the (non-) animosity too...
Thank yous 👍🏻
I'm a computer programmer and I love listening to these guys talk---it's the very same in programming. It's really nice to see we all, as humans, tinker the same.
Prototypes are important - and mine tend to enter service and stay there. I built my first all-birch bookshelves as a learning experience and thirty years later they still adorn my bedroom. I've long ago stopped seeing the things I did wrong, though at first they bothered me immensely.
Ways Matthias and John are similar:
creative, independent thinkers, mold breakers, skeptics, down to earth, individualists, wysiwygs, stubborn, courageous, iconoclasts
FTW dingdingding
Love this explanation John!
I think the tension adjustment on the bottom makes a lot of sense. If you get any slippage from vibrations it would tend to tighten it rather than loosening. But I guess that assumes you are getting some slipping on that screw.
Splitting up the tilt and tensioning functions means you are adding the tensioning function to the power delivery function on the bottom wheel. So for you, it is easier to build a sub frame to hold the motor and bottom wheel bearing block and pulley. Add a hole and a coupler on the bottom for the tensioning rod. But it can't just hang there in the nether, loosey goosey, can it? The subframe has to be carefully fit to match the inside of the case or it has to slide in rails of some sort, right?
You made a super simple tilt mechanism for the top wheel right in the frame/skin of the saw. Take it one step further. You could make the same thing on a small plate of steel. It's still super simple. Bend/affix a tab to the top for holding the coupler/tensioning rod. It's still super simple. Now the hard part is you have to add a couple rails to the frame for this plate to slide up/down in (so it's not just hanging in the nether, loosey goosey). But this is the same problem you tackled when you built your much bigger subframe for the motor and the bottom bearing block. Finally, you just cut a slot through the back of the frame/skin so the tilt knob has clearance when you tension the blade (moving this whole shebang up/down).
John is a tinkerer, Matthias is an engineer
Which are ultimately the same thing but from different angles
I have not watched all the back and forth but I get the impression by the amount of talk and the relative lack of sketches and photos to support the arguments behind the different design iterations that this is an ego infused debate. I design new products from scratch and often find myself messing with foam board or running to the machine shop to test a hypothesis before “hardening up” the concept and moving it to engineering and CAD. Therefore I do not see tinkerer and engineer as mutually exclusive job descriptions. I have seen a lot of engineering struggled through on CAD at great length, with many time-to-market-killing prototyping/re-design cycles precisely because those involved did not take a break from their computers and got their hands into the materials and real life mechanics to make informed design decisions. Yes one can iterate and
“Tinker” on the screen but many breakthrough moments result from playful-like experimentation.
never have an engineer install a toilet. It will take three long years to do it. Blue prints will be involved.
"you seem to be happy to settle for something that just works the way you envisioned it in the first place" - so how many times did he redo the pantarouter again?
These back and forths between two great designers are superb.
I’m the same way as you John. Sometimes you build something the way you want only to discover you need to rebuild it the way you need. And you learn from both builds.
This channel is yours and you have the ultimate right to do anything you want which will improve your individual projects to make it work to its potential. You and Matthias have laid down a very good foundation for all us to learn from. Just ignore the BS comment and just think of us who appreciate what you're doing. From me, your avid fan from the Philippines >>> I am very much grateful for allowing me to be a part of your channels and thank you very much for your tutorials :)
I really do hope that the direction of both of your channels is not going to go into constant nit-picking and bashing each other. I honestly do enjoy both of your channels, both of your approaches to your projects, as well as your insight, wisdom, and maybe showing us a new way to get from point A to point B. But if that is going to be the new norm for you guys, I might focus my attention on other channels.
I’m sad these exchanges have stopped. I watch both of you and enjoyed this channel
You are both excellent at what you do. Each on its own approach. I'm making all kinds of stuff but have my own approach to. Besides that, I''m mostly thinking about making stuff in Iron because I'm used to as a welder. So I see you as my brothers in making all kind of weird stuff and please, go on doing it.
I think that what it comes down to is that Matthias puts the extra effort into his projects before he starts them, whereas yours comes after they've taken actual shape.
I wonder if this video response is a toned down version of what John initially wanted to say (and perhaps recorded but didn't publish). lol
Nope.
Hey. John,great videos! Have you gone to the concerts of the groups on the t shirts that you wear? Awesome bands. Thanks
Just like an old couple, the back and forth bantering is entertaining, and could be a brilliant marketing ploy! :P
yeah, there is potential for them to become the true successors of Walter Matthau and Jack Lemmon...
lol, maybe more of an Abbott and Costello... :-)
I want to see more Matthias vids.
I like to keep my old stuff but sometimes it gets cannibalized when I NEED that part and I don't have time to get a new one or don't want to spend the additional money.
In Czech TV we have two cook chef masters. One is Engineer and second is person, who "do it all in simply way". Bingo. :)
Guys.. what happened? This is one of the best channels on here.. I would love to see it continue
I would rather spend an afternoon with one more than the other.
Great insight into your methods. Your metacognition is well beyond most peoples.
I just watched all videos in the channel. This "Heisz-Wandel condensate" is better than that Bose-Einstein rubbish thing, Hehehe ! Thanks for sharing !
I’m with you John, that’s my mentality too: ongoing experimentation.
I miss the shaky, handheld footage.......~
Both of you are fun to watch. My workshop is much smaller than either of yours and all of my projects are a combination of errors.
CAGE FIGHT!!! For the love of DeWalt get in a ring and THROW DOWN!
Nacho Libre'
yeah with wooden mma gloves and headprotection xD
Whatever it is you're trying to achieve with this channel, it's working! :) It's entertaining and REFRESHING!
is this just to keep interest in this ,keep viewers watching ,taking an interest,to me they both contribute good and interesting videos,based on interest,not bothered about who's best,not interested,just keep doing your own thing guys,just keep your eyes on me in the future,i'am going to be there,well try anyway
Best woodworking talk show on the internet. Period.
All Hail Van Halen!
Do you think perchance John has had opportunity to do air guitar to the solo in Eruption in the shop? ;)
I hate it when mommy and daddy fight.
I feel like im eavesdropping into an awkward public conversation lol
you two are hilarious , great channel guys
Here’s an idea. You should each choose one of your machines (that there are plans for) for the other to build and honestly critique throughout. Like build each other’s box joint jigs, or sander etc. yeah I know you don’t need another one. So give it away or something.
Differance? Heck, I can't do any of this stuff.
To quote a line from the 1600 play Hamlet by William Shakespeare "doth protest too much, methinks" ... over eight minutes of explaining and going into details on why you did things ... are you SURE that, even though you and Mr. Wandel are the best of friends and this is supposed to be friendly sparing, that Mathias isn't hitting a nerve, pushing a button, getting too close to home? Maybe a step back, a time-out of sorts, would be good to preserve the friendship. On the other hand makes for good viewing.
Raymond Schelp
They are just two woodworkers that are poking at eachother‘s woodworking
You are singing to the choir (said they are best of friends) ... I'm long time subscriber to both ... my post was in jest, same as videos on this channel .. although ... best of friends do KNOW all the other persons triggers and buttons to push to get a rise ... hmmmmmmm.
Doth assumes too much, methinks.
typical armchair overanalysis
what they didn't tell us is that this was all worked out over a couple of pints at the pub..... and we are supplying good value for their next laugh-in at the pub
And I'm very happy to be part of it all!
I view John more as a "lets do this just for the heck of it" type.
That may turn out better or worse, but he (and us, too) always learn something along the way.
I've seen John seem overly defensive of an arguably worse aproach to something, but that's usually in response to criticism not of the project itself, but of him trying something unorthodox to begin with.
I know you guys like to bust each others chops. But I have a question, Are there any limits to it? Meaning are there any projects that are off limits to ride each other about?
I notice so many folks describing the 2 different approaches so here's my stab at it.
Matthias defines a successful project as one worth reproducing endlessly.
John's goal is just to make something that works. He doesn't care if he would do it different the next time.
Just relax everyone .🍁
In the words of Jordan Peterson: Make friends with what you DONT know rather than making friends with what you DO know.
In this sense, you're project is never complete and you can always learn, grow and improve.
Well in either case not a lot of people are capable making for their own needs and that's I like watching...
Me and you are a lot alike .
I feel that too :)
Finally a way to get back at trolls. Hilarious
Is the Heisz Wandel Project no more?
No need to apologize we all know you are perfect. At least that’s what you’re always trying to tell us!
How many of those Van Halen shirts do you have?
YOu only need one if you have a washing machine
Are you guys okay?
Experimentation VS realisation/achivement
Sooo, with Matthias moving, the project kind of imploded, huh?
Shame, lots of good stuff was going on here.
Although I like both versions of the saw, I much prefer yours John, as it is not reliant on the strength of wood or glued joints, metal is also more forgiving in it's nature, figures exist for the loads etc, and is easily modified, I also think that the idea of the tilt alone at the top is vastly more elegant, both work of course, but I expect yours would be easier to build.
I like the look of Johns saw better, but still plan to build Mathias'...Haven't you seen Matthias pulling himself up on his band-saw? With metal I commonly see that joints are usually the weaker points, whereas with wood they, when done right, are usually the stronger points. Any flexing or stretching of the wood is easily adjusted away. Actually one of the reasons Matthias had to add some form of spring to his band-saw is to compensate for the rigidity of his frame. Where, as John pointed out, his frame is the spring.
Joints are joints, no matter what the material is - they can be strong or they can be weak, depending on how you put them together.
A good analogy for building a band saw from either material is to look at roller coasters, steel vs wood frame. You can do stuff with steel that is virtually impossible to do with wood.
And although the frame Matthias designed is stiff, it will still act as a spring. The frame is the main spring that acts against the blade tension for all band saws.
I shall bow to superior knowledge :) :)
i smell heat
the difference is that both are smoke sellers
I dont watch the bullshit vids, ever. Box joint jigs, pantorouter, stuff that can help or inspire- that's what it's all about for me. Opinions are like assholes, and so forth. But rave on, dear comrades, as is your right.
Next week JELLO wrestling !
Anyone else picking sides? I'm a die hard team John!
well said
Are you two fighting again? I'm gonna tell mom!
Enginuity is king, Your engineering follows the rule of application and of your supply. Which is better, is irrelevant if both perform equally well for effort input. Wandel depends on his computer first which is planning more.. but Heize more by hook and by crook, meh! it is relative. If I had to make one, relative to me, plans is friken , nice to use. 3D bla bla bla...haha.
NEED MORE HEISZ WANDEL PROJECT PLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSE!!!!!
Foam fight foam fight!!
Fight Fight lol you both make things in your own ways, and they both Hopefully get the same results. Either way they're great
Let's settle this- a duel! Each of you build a tilting compound miter planning tapering dovetailed draw-bored plywood banded painted thing-a-ma-boper and we'll be satisfied...
The differences between these two? One guy finishes his projects--the other not-so-much.
Good video.
Y’all must have a bunch of whining little baby complainers. Despite those people I love y’all’s videos!
Result person vs process person
The traditional design is simpler than your own. I do understand that we look to innovate, but few develop the skills for design critique. Whether or not Matthias got that skill from school or through his dabbling, it is something that he has developed further than yourself. The lack of satisfaction in your designs comes from a lack of appropriate planning and your likening of gold plating your design.
You guys need to sit down face to face! Lol
Jack's prat would eat no fat.
His waifu would eat no lean.
EGOs
"temporary" you sound like my dad john.
I think this would be best resolved in the boxing ring. It would make a great video too! :-)
are we seeing a channel fight with itself?
rip channel, banter was fun while it lasted. Unless you both started another secret CZcams channel for less views!
Greg for real.
4:50 You were too slow to condemn lol
You put Matthias in the thumbnail because his uploads to this channel have gotten way more views than yours. Smart!
Wandel dosen't "Settle". Call it like it is, he thinks he is always right. In other words somewhat arrogant.
nice vh shirt
Is this the woodworkers love channel ...Get a room you two......
John, I think you want to get it right. Just not perfect like some want.
When will we see John on TED Talks?
John, dont forget that Mathias makes planes as a product. And if he makes something half experimental, half perfect. Then the plans would not be as much worth....
is this just a video of someone defending the way he does things in HIS shop? what is the point of even comparing? is there some ultimate goal here? this kind of stuff is boring. look at me I'm a troll. so this is what it's like.
Simply put, this rebuttal was too dragged out to watch.
I did get what you were saying in the first few minutes. Then you really started to drag.
Note there is always more than one way to design something. So long as the end result is working as intended.
Who really cares how you got there? Not I.
I've been building machines for over 40 years now and can clearly see benefits and drawbacks to both designs.
Put your big mouth aside long enough to take the time to make some videos about the machines you have built. You'll find out how easy it all is to please stooges who complain about what you are giving them for free.
HAHAHA
If Matthias gets everything "perfect" right from the get go, why did he just build version 3 of the pantorouter. Sometimes change makes good viewing. John, I remember a year or so ago you had to take your band saw apart. There was much grunting culminating in a loud expletive; that was one of your best you tube moments.
John you need to go help Mr Wandel with his tractor shed....