The Guaranteed Way to Break in Your Flat Tappet Camshaft in Modern Times
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2023
- One of the most problematic parts of building or rebuilding your engine is proper camshaft break in. Many people blame poor metallurgy, improper procedure, and poor oil quality on what kills the camshaft!
These are my best practices and tips for NOT FLATTENING YOUR FLAT TAPPET CAM'S LOBES.
Obviously I can't guarantee the results for anyone, including myself, but I have had a very high success rate and don't mind showing detailed steps of how to save yourself a big headache!
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Modern times call for moddern salutations. Jopar Moe is a man for the people
Thanks to the BTP community
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Everything you said is right on and always prime the oiling system...the best way to see the convex on the end of the lifter is by putting it on the side of another lifter as that's is supposed to be dead straight. Good job as always Joe.
Thanks, John! Hopefully it helps someone out there
Finally, someone who knows why you place the bottom of a liter against the side of another lifter. As opposed to placing the bottom of two lifters against each other (where the heck did this dumb idea come from?).
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I’ve got a Comp cam and lifters in the 318 I built I built for my Dakota. I have over 8000 miles on it and no problems knock on wood lol.
Excellent!
Running the engine without the cover on brings me back to the late 80's, I broke in a cam and lifters (Comp mileage cam 260 lift flat tappet) for a 400 Chevy Caprice wagon. Neighbors came in the early morning to see what the ruckus was. Both valve covers off and I'm adjusting the rockers while I'm braking in the cam . I set the brand new plug wires on fire 🔥 😂. Ran great especially with the shift😂shift kit in the TH400 BARKIN THE TIRES THROUGHOUT DETROIT 😊.
Yea sir. That’s the only way my dad would do it on a Chevy.
No point in that with a Mopar or Ford with shaft mounted rockers. You can't adjust them with it running.
I’m right there with you on everything you did. One other step I do is remove the inner valve springs, if you have dual springs. Then reinstall them after break-in. It’s a pain but I believe a lot of cam failures come from too much spring pressure during break-in.
True that! This one was set back to stock pressure, so it was less worrisome.
Spot on and good catch man. I can see why Joe didn't mention it in this one (because it's stock) but most definitely. I've even used an old set of springs that are weaker as long as they are the same lift. Just to be sure.
Always prime it. I had a machine shop press in a cam journal bearing wrong and the oil port hole was in the wrong place. No oil to LH head. Caught it during priming oil pump.
@@paulhershberger8774
Excellent point, and exactly why I build my own. When the Machine Shop asks if I want them to press the cam bearings I decline. (Only once they asked)
Tell Joe ta GITTIT! 🤭✌️❤
Too many worries with flat tappet cam any engine I build from now on is going to have roller lifters
I have a new set of solid and hydraulic flat tappets I’m saving from my NOS parts from Michigan. Mopar circa 2000
Chinese Roller cams and lifters suck
I put in a Competition Cams extreme energy flat tappet cam 2 years ago and never had a single problem with it. I used Rhodes lifters as it's a 540 lift cam but I'm running 1.6 rockers which gives more lift and is harder on the lifters. I changed out all the valve springs for the bone stock ones. Ran the engine for 45 minutes at 2500 rpm and then switched out all the springs for the correct pressure ones. Never had a single issue. It is a hardened camshaft though and I wasn't happy with the extra cost but it's worth it not to have issues.
Thanks for sharing!
Good practical advice. There are so many channels out there just running around yelling "the sky is falling" and not providing ideas on how to work around the problem. Cams are basically the brain of the engine and we all have to give our version of brain surgery a little more thought and prep. The days of throw some lube on it and it'll be ok are long gone. Thanks Joe!
Thanks brother! We gotta face everything and rise!
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Great tips Joe! I miss the good old days when everyone could just use the recommended cam lube and not have to worry about shoddy machine work!👍
Very true!
Yeah, those days are gone with the 70s and 80s. I sold Comp, Crane, Isky, back then. Lots of their stuff. NEVER had a customer have a part failure during break in. Bad materials and bad machine work now days. Product of the "whatever" generation.
@@davidkeeton6716 yep!👍
I’m part of a team that fires up and breaks in several new rebuilds a week.
I agree on the comp sentiments/ horrible amount of them come back within weeks wiped out.
Flat tappet cams suck, lifters suck. Basically everything for older engines suck now unless you are using nos parts. It’s brutal
In an engine shop where you try to honour your warranty, shit like this can kill a business if you don’t learn quick
I can absolutely see that. Thanks for sharing your experience
I 'm wonder ing it isn't broader then just cpm cam and lifters. Just today speaking to owner of a cam grinding shop west coast, he's seethe FT lobe death thing in plenty of other cam MFG too. Yet some CC stuff if poor quality, yet he OK's some things like the guide plates & the steel RRA pieces.
360 sounds good.
Thanks brother!
Really great information for the new hot Rod engine builders. My uncle and old-time Mopar man would never run a new engine on detergent oil because it washes away the zinc additives that the cam needs for break in.
Right on! I’ve heard that many times.
good job , I like it
Thank you! Cheers!
If you run the oil pump to pre-lube you don't need to soak the lifters. If you have oil coming out of the pushrods the lifter is full of oil.
Mopars have solid pushrods until the late 80’s. They don’t oil through the pushrods until the magnum engines.
@@JustMoparJoe Except you were talking about your roller motor, not an early motor. And I made it clear when I said when you have oil coming out of the push rods didn't I.
@@ashleyjennings5224 my oil comes out of the rocker shaft. I show in the video my priming of the system. The idea is to take extra steps to ensure the cam lasts.
Hey I was told to soak lifters early on along with checking each lifter in bore for movement. Never had any issues.
Great tip Joe, everyone should do that test for rotation. I think thats whats wiping lobes. No rotation
Exactly!!it doesn’t cost a thing to check
They will not rotate if the cam is not ground with the correct taper and the lifters are not made with the correct convex cam contact surface. These are things we used to take for granted when manufacturers had ethics.
Joe nice job on the how to do and the explanation of the whole process.
I have been using Isky Rev lube for over 45 years and people I knew used it before I did.
I would definitely call this engine a success at this time.
All of the work in this engine is such a good and positive benefit.
Very sanitary build.
Sounds great, starts good.
Thanks for sharing.
Take care, Ed.
Thanks Ed!
My Grandfather was same as your Dad, I do a routine that is almost as similar as what you're doing with your motor.
I always keep the lifters up right and just cover the tops with oil and see air bubbles coming out of the lifters.
I see the bubbles, so it’s gotta do something. I’ve always done it that way
Isky cams have been very, very good to me. Their prices have gone up significantly. And yes, soak the lifters!!! I've always done that. No matter what cam and lifter kit is used! Old school lessons are still the best lessons. Great video Joe, thanks for your wisdom!! Keep up the good work!
Thanks Terry Legend! I appreciate your support and knowledge !
Now the next step, according to all the farmers I know, is put it in the truck and go tow with it in the hills. Put it through the paces and make those rings seat under hard work, not hot rodding around doing burn outs n crap. All the 400k mile engines I have seen have been old farm trucks so I trust that advice. I'm glad you're telling the owner roughly the same thing!
Thanks brother. Pulling a ramcharger anywhere definitely helps ring break in. One thing to keep in mind is that Mr. Rick Seeman did the hone in this build with the precision of a Profilometer. It got a precise finish to quickly and easily break in the rings. Some guys say that you can tell it within a few passes on the dyno.
I used to have a spare set of valve covers with the tops cut out, after break in I would quickly swap the covers and run, check the rod movement, oiling, and reset the lash while hot and running.
Great video!
Cheerz!!!
That's a great idea! Thanks brother
I've used Isky rev lube also....
Good stuff, zero cam/lifter problems
Thanks brother
Building a break in stand is quick and easy and saves much more difficult work if you install an engine that fails. I'm subscribed!
Thanks brother. I actually had a viewer make this one for me, after mine started to fall in on the 508 stroker build I did!
Just perfect timing, Joe! Will be replacing a junk comp cam and lifters soon. Thanks for this video.
Thanks buddy!
Great video and advice as always!! I soak my lifters as well, I think a bit of oil in them never hurts.
Thanks Greg. I know many guys who are scared to or against it.
You don't need to. Just prime the oil system before cranking it. Maybe turn the motor through a bit, them prime again. Set your lifter preload if hydraulic and fire it up and break it in as per the cam company instructions.
Sounds healthy!! Good street motor with a broad torque band!!
She’s a nice one!
Suiting the customers needs and wants perfectly!! @@JustMoparJoe
Excellent info, as always, Joe!! The heads @ed's machine look awesome as well!! I love the REV-LUBE and keep a can in stock myself, and I have also used the ARP bolt lube moly paste in a pinch with great results!! Your application of lube was perfect, but beware of too much moly paste, I heard a guy built a Buick 455 and used it everywhere, pistons, bearings, rockers and clogged his oil filter up on break in!! He saw the oil pressure dropping and investigated immediately and the paste was restricting the filter!! Like silicone RTV, it has it's place in moderation.
Thanks Rodney, I appreciate the positive comments.
Thanks Rod. I was able to resmear a lot of it, back into place.
Yes, the wonder of that stuff is the film you can't really see is still there until the heat and flow of oil washes it away and by then, it should have a mated surface at the contact point. I think "non-detergent" oil may be recommended on break-ins for that reason, to give the coatings and solid lubricants time to actually be effective!! @@JustMoparJoe
Always have and always will soak the lifters. Dad is a smart person. 🤓
Thanks John
Your Dad taught you pretty damn good !!!
Mopar Joe.
Before I drove a truck for 25 plus years I was a 3 year trained diesel mechanic so I'm a roller man cause all but a small few are roller cammed including injection pumps are all roller cam operated so I'm a roller inclined guy but the metal they make cams out of today isn't as good quality as what roller camshafts are made of, but since a Dodge and Ford have got a thrust plate to locate the Cam I'd go roller but The cost issue prevents alot of people from choosing a roller cam but you do good work I'm proud of you all the best to you and yours Sir.
Thanks for the support!
Love the striping the pushrods idea! Years ago an older guy showed me he would put liquid graphite on the cam first, then the lube. This has worked really well for me.
Very cool!
Very good explanation of whats going on and what to actually look for. Thanks for keeping us informed.
Thanks buddy
She's a runner! Good info Joe! Can't wait to get to this point on the Free 83!
Thanks T! Hope you get that moho engine back on the road!
Nice video Joe! Great info! Sounds good too!
Thanks Ray!
As always, well explained and presented! Engine sounds really good! Nice build!
Thank you very much!
Excellent and effective procedure. Great video as usual Joe! That 360 sure sounds healthy. 👍
Thanks Tony! See you soon bud
Another great show. Not overwhelming on info, just right. Keep it up Joe.
Much appreciated!
Good info Joe. I’ve had several friends have that issue with flat tappets the past few years. So I put hydraulic rollers in my 360. It’ll be a daily driver and maybe a fun weekend at the local track. I use Lucas in all my vehicles. 👍👍👍
Right on! Thanks Tim
@@JustMoparJoe Hope to meet everyone in a few weeks. Will just be a spectator this year. But I’ll be there 👍
@@tims72demon that’s great! I’ve got a Rollcall video in the works
Great video Joe! Almost exactly what I do. The only thing I do different is that I do pump up the lifters with a Lifter Oiler. No idea where dad got his (and he's had it longer than he's had me), but it's the one I've always used. It's just a little hand pumped oil can with a small nozzle that squirts the oil into the lifter hole. I do that until air quits popping out and drop them right into the hole.
That’s a cool practice! Dad makes the difference!
Thanks Joe good update on the truck.
Thanks brother!
Good job! I like the line on the pushrod tip! Thanks!
Absolutely! Old trick
Instead of using a red magic marker on the pushrods, I'd suggest using Dykem liquid, like machinists use. It comes in red or blue, and does not come off easily.
I took some old stamped steel rocker covers and drilled like 5/8" dia. holes on the inside(manifold side) of the valve covers in line with all the pushrods. I can use a dental mirror and a penlite to watch the pushrods spin, and with little or no mess.
Very clean !
Great vid as usual Joe. Perfect timing before I break in this 440 I just dropped in the 70 Coronet
Thanks brother! Good luck!
Makin' it look easy :) Thanks Joe!
I appreciate it, Josh! Mopar to the front!
The first cam I ever installed was in a 65 Mustang 200 six. It was a fairly choppy solid lift mellings. I just pulled out the original and shoved it in with new solid lifters and adjustable rockers from a 170. Adjusted everything, buttoned it up and drov it for around 10 years with no more adjustment.
Excellent tips! Guaranteed to save money and grief, thanks brother 😁
Thanks Ryan
Valuable advice Joe, Thanks
Thanks brother
Thank You for the tips and information 👍
Glad it was helpful!
We had good luck with our Isky
Over 200 passes. Check. Double check and prelube. Needs the zinc! Good vid Joe.
Yes sir! Tell ‘em where you heard it 👍🏼
I just built a 351M used Lucas and followed these steps with Great results! Excellent Thanks!
Excellent!
Comp is Junk. I've seen a lot of brand new in box on marketplace for sale. Wonder why 😂
Exactly! Someone is buying them 🤷🏻♂️
@@JustMoparJoe people with a lot of money to spend lol
In Germany we check and reground lifters and mostly the Elgin pro Stock cams and lifters are ok
Videos like this wish you were my neighbor so I could hang out and ask questions that I should know the answer to. Then get a tool then clean a tool then ask more then recover from you slapping me in the back of the head for talking too much. I’m not smart so id keep asking lol. Hope you chuckled. Thanks for the content I enjoyed it!!!!
😂 thanks Stan!
Great video Joe. I've always done it the same way...pretty much. I'll mark the pushrods on the next build.
Thanks brother!
Great video. Awesome information.
Thanks brother
STD old school procedures work. 35 yrs of race an hp building now retired. Well done.
Thanks brother! My old daddy made a many an engine run, in less than ideal circumstances.
Thanks for another great tip
Thank you for the support!
I'm with ya on soaking the lifters. I was taught the same way. Even though mines a Gen 3 Hemi 392. And it's all roller, I still soak mine.
Yes sir. Thanks for sharing!
I agree with the lucas break in oil. I've never used the isky lube I use the red break in cam lube. Great video as always!
Thanks buddy. Try the Isky stuff next time 👍🏼
Last summer rebuilt a 1977 chevy 454, had a comp cam and a old stock 454 gm cam, so glad I went with the beefier stock cam and no cam lobe wipe, ya lost maybe 40hp, but it pulls 6k trailer, also I pump oil in lifters before use, as the engine gets hand turned they bleed down and no dry start up, break in oil and prime the oil pump.
Good stuff man, We had pretty good luck with the driven brand last time we did a cam break in. We will have to try the Isky Rev lube on our next one!!
Good stuff! See y’all soon!
I was watching Graveyard Carz tonight and there was a plastic jug with lifters soaking in oil waiting to go in a 440 . I think I like my lifters soaked . Thanks for another great informative video
Thanks Terry! I heard your lifters will be rolling!
@@JustMoparJoe you’re exactly right .
I did a lot of research. I went with comp for one reason only.
I am going to run solid lifters. Comp makes a light weight tool steel lifter that I DLC COATED.
I selected a custom cam with the the specs for my combination 440. I had the cam manufactured with a three bolt cam gear attachment and had the NITRIDED..
Between the high lubricity of the DLC coating and the increases hardness of the nitrided lobes I hope to avoid avoid any issue.
I will also take the steps Joe is describing here because they will still apply to my parts and is good solid procedure for any flat tappet install.
Between the DLC lifters and nitrided custom cam I have $495 in the cam and $118 in the lifters. Roughly twice the cost of non coated/treated components.
Check out DLC coatings at comp and Calico Coatings
Thanks for sharing! Good luck with your install and build 👍🏼
Excellent, exactly what I needed.
Great to hear!
All right Mopar Joe ; thank you for sharing your experience .
I appreciate that! It’s less than many and more than some. I’ll keep learning each day.
Sounds good!
Thanks brother
Thanks Joe 😊
Thanks buddy!
great video
Thanks Brother
Great video, should help many
Thanks brother
Good stuff! Hopefully you saved a cam out there somewhere!
I hope so too! Thanks buddy
Hey Glad I came across your video Automatically subscribed
Thanks brother!
What a great and informative video!
Thanks brother
As I’ve said in the past for Mopars it’s Racer Brown Cams , the one in my 493 is a STX22 , Valvoline VR1 oil with break in additive and never let mine just idle lol
Oh man! Thanks for sharing
Yeah buddy. Good to hear her purr
Thanks Nick!
Good tip 👍
Thanks brother
Mopar Joe,
Amazing, I have an Isky 505 T cam, lifters and springs in my 440 since 1982.... going strong still. Use rev lubes also.
That’s a great cam!
from research there are only 1 camshaft manufacturer who make the basic core and around 2 maybe 3 lifter makers any more. I have a Hyd Flat TAPPET Comp cam with zero issues at 10 years old.and in the 1980s i was told once my 340 was started let normal break in method followed then I took car out ran it up to 100MPH and went backe and rechecked all bolts
I believe comp cams has taken a severe turn in the last 10 years in quality and reliability. I like my NOS comp in my racecar
My Mom had then I had her 1972 Satellite with 318 2 bbl, auto/AC and I got 23 mph after I worked on it a while. Put big old tires on the back and lived in Flagstaff, my friends in Phoenix called me a Snowbird.
I dig it!
Bullitt Cams in Memphis,TN is another good source for flat tappet cams. They check their lifters on a tappet grinder. That ISKY lube is the best. Crane Cams years ago when Harvey Crane still owned it was one of the best and of course Isky is good also. Keep in mind use a good break-in oil during the 45-60 min run. I use Amsoil breakin oil and then use Amsoil high zinc phos oils. No problems.
Thanks for sharing! Bullet had never steered me wrong. They actually balanced the engine in my dads old racecar.
Bullitt Cams also has a man that shares space in their building that grinds cranks. He's real good ...... @@JustMoparJoe
I haven't run a new comp cam in 10 years because I have a big stack of mostly big block mopar cams and they are about 15 to 20 years old most new and the only time I lost one was when I got real comfortable about not having any trouble with them and did not take the inner spring out of a 557 solid flat tappet with harland sharps 1.6 rockers which gave me .594 lift and I was running racer brown triple springs so I never break one in now with the inner spring in it and I also soak my lifters always use lucus products too and prelube the engine too do everything I can to set the timing prime the carb and fire it immediately so it won't wipe the lubes off the cam cranking on it don't build as many motors as I used to but got a lot of purple shaft cams to use when I do I trust the old stuff to work thanks for all your sharing at my age it's all a good reminder good video as usual
Thanks Ray. I have a few of the bullet cams and lifters left from around 2010. Dad kept buying cans and lifter sets and trying to go faster each weekend.
Nice post!🏁🏁🏁
Thanks! 👍
It’s due to poor quality metallurgical properties in the castings, bad and poor hardening processes and bad non-angled concentric grids on the lobes cussing the lifter to not turn in the lifter bore. And, or tight lifter bores and/or poor metal and hardening process on the lifters. Also, proper engine break-in process is imperative. I know that’s a lot. But, your cam is the heart of power for your engine. Good oil with ZDDP in it helps too. Good luck. 👍🍀
Old school tried and true never fails!
Another good Tip Mate
Thanks 👍
I see pat & frankie on horsepower tv using the spray on valve train and cam lubricant. Looks like it could be a good idea. And have you ever tried DVs oil extreme he talked about in a video kinda overshadowing zinc? Good content keep up the great work joe
Great point! I haven’t tried that before. I like the Goodson engine gel for many parts like the pushrod tips etc.
ISKY located in Gardena Ca. Where My Machine Shop was in Operation for 18 years. 🇺🇸
Great people
Comp today is not the Comp of the 70s and 80s. I had one bite me hard 6 months ago. It killed all the bearings and the crank and all the gaskets and oil and filter and ALL THE LABOR AND TIME TO ORDER AND WAIT AND WAIT AND WAIT to get the replacement parts to do it ALL OVER AGAIN. Just save your money and put a roller cam and the different pushrods and springs you will need. Yes, springs. Do it RIGHT. It's worth it. I went with Howards Cams parts and Manton pushrods.
Great information. Especially marking the pushrods. What cam are you using? It sounds real healthy.
Thanks brother. I was able to show the cam in an earlier video. It’s an older “Clevite performance” grind.
The lub is not the problem for a new cam going flat. Take a new lifter wipe the bottom off drag your finger nail across it take a pencil and drag it across the lifter you can feel the file as it is filing the lead off of the pencil along with your finger nail. A ground surface is a poor finish. Now take a sheet of red crocus cloth and a old phone book or soft back book `put the sheet down face up. Now take the lifter an rub it in all directions tilting it as you go (a lifter is crowned) until it is smooth like a piece of glass now run your pencil across it it is now longer a file and will not file your cam lobes down, a new lifter is a file. Without doing this what happens is after a cam is run softly for a while, (without polishing the lifter) it finally wears the grind marks off off of the lifer. If you are running real heavy springs a lot of racers will pull the inner spring out to cut the pressure on the cam lobes. When resizing con rods leave the bore 2/10 under sizer wrap crocus cloth around the mandrel then do the pencil and `finger nail test, now you will not have bearing material transfering and killing the oil clearance. Think about this crank shafts are polished after grinding. Me, a long time machinist in large machine shop doing ship repair, paper mill, mining equipment, saw mill, and a GT1 road racer driving a Camaro . This something I have just kept to myself over the years. Have fun, Don
Thanks for sharing, Don. These lifters actually have a polished finish on bottom. Not like chrome, but much smoother than the Chinese ones I’ve seen elsewhere
Good call on making sure there is lifter rotation via the pushrods. I've gone as far as removing the valley pan on a 383 and watch each lifter rotate on initial cam break in.
Excellent idea. I would imagine it wasn’t as messy as pulling valve covers
@@JustMoparJoe Some oil did get sparyed around, but it's a lot easier to clean oil off an engine vs. cleaning metal out of an engine.
czcams.com/users/shortsz3nYkNRW7NI?si=bQNb7bMj5jN8oMYl
@@a70duster I gave you a sub. I definitely want to see what kind of big block action you’ve got going on!
@@JustMoparJoe a '70 Duster, drag car. Best at Bandimere (5800 feet) was 10.9 at 126. This engine is a 383 0.060 over with a 440 crank. That comes out to 438 in³.
czcams.com/video/vu83Pzged6Q/video.htmlfeature=shared
If it's a big cam with high pressure springs you must use light springs and or low ratio rockers for break in.
Yes sir. That’s a common one. Many single coils now can handle decent lift cams to around .500.
Ever thought of trying Amsoil engine assembly lube and Amsoil Beakin oil SAE30. Both are high zinc formulas and are synthetic based. Excellent combination for newly rebuilt engines. This stuff is like liquid gold. You might want to check it out. Then after breakin they have high zinc Z-Rod Synthetic Motor Oils 10w30, 40 and 20w50 weights. You go back to the regular stuff once you try it.
I knew some guys who swear by it
I'm kinda pissed kinda not thanks for the info but I bought my cam a few years ago from comp and aint my engine all the way together yet...ballin on a budget hopefully it'll make it
Sorry Travis. You may have success. Many guys do, but if the failed cams I know of personally, 3/4 of them are comp.
Installed cam since the 1950s.
Never had the problem these guys have.
Didn’t use “cam lube” either.
Have you installed one since 2020? That’s when the problems began
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In Volvo engines they just use wheel bearing grease for pre lube cam and lifters
Today most cheap cams and lifters come from China or Vietnam.
The cam lube is bs, the engine is lubricated with oil, not cam lube.
2500 for 20 minutes. How i did mine 5 years ago still running strong no issues.
I haven’t looked into the isky lube , but I bet it close to the same as arp bolt anti seize .. I was told by a solid engine builder that’s what he used and recommend ,I’ve definitely had good luck with this practice
I have run many comp cams and never had a failure. I also ran crower and Isky with no problems
Thanks brother. I had to put out what I’ve experienced, especially after researching after the last years since the pandemic started.
Nice!
Thanks Jonny!
Very good job on the work and video, something I’ve always wondered is, would BG Pre Lube be ok to use vs the grease looking lubes that you put on them? Me personally I feel like using the stuff you are using is the best way to go but often wondered if a guy could do that
I think it’s a personal preference deal. Many guys have good luck with other lubes. I’ve used the comp red lube and driven lube successfully as well.
The last 3 years I've used comp. Summit, and howards. Never had an issue with any cams getting wiped.
Very good! Thank you for sharing
I used to put a lifter vertical in oil and pump it with a pushrod, funny thing is, soaking doesn't matter but i still do it.. weird habit
I’m not superstitious, but I’m a little bit stitious!
I NEVER pump up the lifters. I once did it on a Chevy six, and had a lot of trouble running until the lifters ran awhile and bled down. I will NEVER do that, again. I've probably built a dozen engines since then, without pumping the lifters up, with ZERO problems.