Pathfinder: WotR - Ranking 199 Classes Part 25: Wizard & Archetypes
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- čas přidán 8. 08. 2024
- This video is part of my series ranking all the classes in Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous. The first video in this series walks through the ranking system. A link to my guide on all 25 base class mechanics is below.
25 Base Classes Mechanics: • Pathfinder: WotR - All...
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00:00 Wizard
00:28 Arcane Bomber
01:30 Cruoromancer
03:03 Elemental Specialist
04:23 Exploiter Wizard
04:52 Scroll Savant
06:05 Spell Master
07:39 Thassilonian Specialist
08:34 Outro - Hry
Thassilonian Specialist is good for multiclass characters since the extra spell slot helps make up for the lost caster level(s). In the first game, I used Thassilonian Specialist for an Eldritch Knight build. The EK's spell critical ability works for ranged attacks in the game, which is very nice since you can use a crossbow and you'll trigger the ability once every 2 - 3 rounds and get a free quickened spell.
But the archetype is also good for Arcane Trickster builds.
Nice I'll keep that in mind when I go back to Kingmaker.
Thassilonian specialists dont lose cantrips. The actual drawback is not the inability to slot spells from the opposition school (its almost never a good idea to waste two spell slots for 1 spell anyway), its the fact you dont get to pick your opposition schools. One thing that should be noted about Thassilonian specialists is that they do get the mythic lich spells of opposition schools added to their spell book, and unlike other specialist wizards, these opposition spells occupy no additional slots. That being the case, a wrath thassilonian specialist makes for a great lich. You get a bone shield to replace shield, and corrupt magic replacing dispel magic, and protection from elements can easily be covered by a divine caster, even staunton, so you wont miss abjuration. As for conjuration, its a good school early on, but once you actually have taken the lich path, you will very seldom be using grease, web or stinking cloud.
Yeah I didn't realize they don't lose cantrips from reading the mechanics, thanks for pointing it out.
i love the spellmaster cause getting to recharge a spellslot multiple times a day becomes really nice when you realise that this also works on lv10 spells *chuckles in lich
Spellmaster feels almost like a sorcerer that can choose which slots he gets more spells of. Hes a fun and interesting caster for sure that I don't think gets enough credit. Also he has some really interesting synergy with battering blast, because that spell doesn't have a cap on caster levels on how many orbs it throws out, so the level 1 caster level buff applied to battering blast can chunk a ton of battering blast shots.
I just love its Thor/Kratos style weapon throw
Wow I didn't even think about that great call out. Eight castings of Finger of Death would've been fantastic during my Lich run.
If you have the spell inscribed in the spellbook with a metamagic feat applied, you have the ability to craft a scroll with said metamatic. For example, I started crafting Selective Web Spells for Woljif to use through act 2, made by Nenio, who had the spell and crafted the scroll.
I didn't know that at the time but a couple of people responded to say that. Great call out.
Damn you are pumping these out! 💯
Yeah I'll definitely be taking a break around the holiday's. LOL
Thassilonian Specialist: You state that you lose cantrips, this is slightly incorrect. You do lose the base cantrip list that wizards get, but you do get the cantrips back from your Thassilonian school. This is apparently because the cantrips were an "all or nothing" add to the wizard, so they had to make specialized cantrip bundles for each of the Thassilonian schools (Necromancy, for example, can't cast Abjuration or Enchantment cantrips or spells).
Given that I tend to avoid opposing school spells (that spell slot penalty hurts, especially at higher spell levels), completely losing access to them is an acceptable trade off for the extra spell slot per spell level. It's only real downside is not being able to choose your forbidden schools. On my necromancy playthrough, losing access to Abjuration *hurt*.
Ahhhhhhh thank you for clarifying that.
I decided to start up a second WotR game, this time with exploiter wizard, because that archetype is amazing in the table-top version of Pathfinder. Sure, you lose arcane bond, but you can get a familiar with just one arcane exploit. Combine that with all the other outstanding exploit choices (especially potent magic, quick study and dimensional slide) and you have a very survivable, well-rounded spell-caster that more than makes up for the class features given up. Can't wait to see how this archetype does when combined with mythic levels....
Yup should be a very powerful playthrough.
Great Video and series overall. Hope to see similar type of video about prestige classes.
Thank you! Yup Prestige classes starting up tomorrow.
Polar ray does nowhere near as much damage as hellfire ray. That said, fire conversion for caustic spray, chain lightening, caustic eruption and stormbolts and mass icy prison is very handy. You should probably also note that you should only ever specialise in fire in this game. There is simply too much fire specific gear, including the ability to reliably apply fire vulnerability in chapter 5, to seriously consider any other element.
Indeed this. Would be nice if some of the gear could be modified to fit any element, like a whole wardrobe akin to the ring of circumstances so you can just make it to whatever element you specialize in.
I honestly think it's terrible that fire gets so much love to the detriment of all the other elements.
Did you ever rank the class mechanics on your channel? Like exploits, bloodlines, rage powers, judgments, curses, patrons, etc? That feels like it would be neat. It would be interesting to see if any of the subclasses combined your top 2 favorite mechanics, or at least 2 very highly rated mechanics.
Oh interesting no I haven't done that before.
Spellmaster + Fiery Weaver Staff allows to get caster level 25. Add extend spell and you can get 24 hour haste on your entire party. With the Midnight Isles DLC and the robe from the second set of isles, you can also get caster level 25.
Man I need to play through the Midnight Isles again and assess all the unique accessories you can get from it.
The whole point of spell savant is to be a team buffer which can cast both divine and arcane spell as long as you have the spell scroll. You are essentially trading money for spell slot which you can save for more important stuff.
Thank you for making this series and sticking too it bruh. Real informative. 👍🏽
My pleasure!
Thassilonian specialists remind me of Red Wizards of Thay from D&D, very specialized mages with greater penalty on opposite schools.
Yup I agree.
It’s actually almost a direct port of the theme.
Very good analysis! Fully agree.
Thassilonian specialist is interesting, because it's the second time in the game we meet up with a Runelord, rulers of an ancient kingdom of *seriously messed up* Wizards. Prior to being told that Blackwater was one of the kickstarter rewards I would have thought that would make the Iron Gods AP more likely, but as it's not that makes the Runelords references even more interesting for the possibility of playing Rise of the Runelords which is considered one of the best adventures Paizo has made. There's just as much evidence for the pirate AP Skull and Shackles though, so we'll have to wait and see!
I don't know much about any of them but pulling for Runelords due to the evil imprisoned wizard we meet. He seemed REALLY interesting and I'd love to meet more characters like him.
@@SlanderedGaming It would be interesting! There's only one thing that makes me pause about saying that it's the most likely option: RotRL has no campaign management, which is one of the things that seems to draw Owlcat's attention in particular. It's just an end to end adventure much closer to something like Baldur's Gate than anything they've made so far, whereas Skull and Shackles would still allow them to have you control a pirate fleet.
@@AncroKT that’s a really good point I hadn’t considered.
Tbf Owlcat needs a lot more work in making the campaign management systems really fun. They treat it like an afterthought mini game. I would prefer they put a lot more work into it because honestly it seems like such an amazing aspect of a game to complement a single-player video game version of pathfinder.
Either of the Runelord campaigns work amazingly with the mythic paths tho. It adds so much more to the base game. Like I really love mythic paths.
Scroll Savant does give the ability to cast from divine scrolls at your caster level (if you pass the UMD). If you’re a Trickster the lesser UMD mythic trick adds your mythic rank to that so you get a max caster level of 30 for any scroll. If you want to cast a divine 1/rd level spell for 24 hours you would need a divine caster with scribe scrolls and extend metamagic to write the scroll for you but it can be done.
Late to the party, having discovered WotR through Rogue Trader, but thank you for this excellent series. Your enthusiasm has made me reconsider some of my biases... but not my anti-kinetisist attitude... I just can't make it fit into Pathfinder thematically or mechanically.
Glad you enjoy it!
Well that depends on the build with thassilonian specialist. I like doing an illusion focused wizard multiclassed with rogue or a tanky unarmored melee that focuses on buffing himself with mage armor with arch mage armor mystic feat. Like to get creative with this class
👍🏾👍🏾🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 your thumbnails are too 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Thank you!
Holy moly all 25 classes already! Great job getting this out there, are you going to take a break for a bit or work on prestige classes?
No breaks! LOL
I think that Lorespire had an awesome build for an Exploiter Wizard. Its very good indeed.
On a side note I'm hoping that you make short video or something like that just to list your rankings for all, combining it into one place. Nevertheless these videos were very cool, awesome to get a picture on how each class and subclass compare or how to "feel" where their powerlevels are. TY
Yup I'll definitely do a compilation of it all.
@@SlanderedGaming Ty
Wizard got some great subclasses in this except Arcane Bomber, you were more lenient on it that I thought you'd be, well it still is a wizard after all.
The meta in tabletop for the fastest path to godhood is Exploiter Wizard, some of the best arcane exploits didn't make it in the game, likely because they're too op or don't quite fit in a video game. These videos have all been fantastic, I like that you factor in RP and general flavor along with mechanics. Only the prestige classes left and Shifter when that DLC comes out.
Thanks glad you have enjoyed the series!
Spell Master is fun to play if you focus on summoning.
thanks
Isn't untyped damage bad because it can't be buffed by the elemental feats or hit enemy vulnerabilities? Especially since resistances can be mitigated through mythic feats anyways?
I think the scroll savant really should have more ways to play with scrolls
like applying metamagic, being able to use a scroll multiple times, using a scroll as a swift action, being able to use scrolls that you couldn't normally use (maybe the latter is already that way)
Cruoromancer missed the point...again
I like the idea of necromancy being tied to blood magic
I wish blood infusions were more diversed and scales up
the Thassilonian specialist is probably my biggest disappointment
the flavor is there but the execution is so poor
I like the idea of magic schools being tied to one of the seven deadly sins but I wish they gain feats according to those sins theme
I know i'm asking for a lot of work here but come on
I wish the spellmaster would have been able to "summon" his weapon so the weapon can attack and move on it's own
would have been much more fun
The saving grace for the wizard is his spell list wich is really great but the class lacks a lot of flavor
The Cruoromancer is the one that disappoints me the most. Lich deserves better.
I feel like the main thing I would use spell master for is to get 24 hour haste more easily.
Yup multiple people have brought that up and I agree.
I wonder how are you going to deal with prestige classes. Collect three of them in the one movie or add your advice which basic classes has best synergy with prestige?
Three of them at a time, reviewing all the mechanics one by one, giving greater weight to dips since it doesn't make sense to max most of them.
What strikes me as weird is why lich mythic path requires charisma in the first place. That threw me for a loop when I ran into that in the game. I'm used to liches being intelligence based in dnd lol
Undead use Charisma for health instead of Constitution in Pathfinder. Not sure if it works the same way in DND.
Finally! I've been waiting for this video for so long, I can't even tell you. I thought it was next but forgot Witch and even Warpriest existed and was a bit disappointed at the delay. So grateful it's finally here.
I literally just quit hardcore drug use/addiction that spanned multiple years, SPECIFICALLY by getting so invested and into mostly CRPGs/tactical rpgs and watching a ton of content on it as if I were passionately pursuing/speedrunning a college degree or something, just full force, fully immersed into it, but despite investing, I'd estimate ~200+ hrs now of time solely to researching different games and learning/understanding the mechanics, Pathfinder has been the hardest and most intimidating for me.
So, I'm coming off playing Solasta as a reference. I know this may be a bit of a specific question to ask and a shot in the dark anyone reads this and may go out of their way to give me a response, but I was hoping to play a class in WotR that is kind of like the Sorcerer in that game. Specifically, that you got "points" or a pool you could spend on metamagic feats like twinned, which I don't think exists here? But could be wrong. Maximize, empower, etc.
What is the closest thing to that in these games? Is it Spell Master wizard? I'm open to playing other classes like if Arcanist has exploits that do something similar, idk. I just really enjoyed that mechanic. But I'm also something of an obsessive min-maxer and may not enjoy the game if I realize half way through that I could be missing out on something more powerful. Sorry for complicating the question, but yeah. If anyone happens to have the knowledge/experience and can better inform me or have suggestions as to what my options are or best, most ideal choice, it'd be sincerely, incredibly appreciated, internet stranger dudes.
Apologies for lengthiness.
Congratulations on your sobriety! Finding a passion can be a great and healthy way to engage in self care.
Phantasmal Mage under Arcanist has a pool of points that can be used to apply metamagic feats on Illusion spells, which are very powerful in this game with the right build.
Impactful
Damn I love the Spell Master class!
You can memorize 1 of many spells and thanks to being able to use bound item you can spam them if necessary. And since since there is no limit of what spells the Spell Master can use that class is better for Scroll scribing than Nenio ( who can't scribe abjuration spells like dispel magic).
Focused spell + Dispel or Corrupt Magic really let you dominate in magic duels.
Why scribe dispel magic when you can just buy them from arisone? And nenio can cast it using her caster level, +4 cl from librarian robe in lower city and +2 from spell spec dispel magic
Man, already? I'll miss this lol
There's still all the prestige classes!
LOL Thanks glad you are enjoying them!
He hasnt ranked every archetype/mythic path combo yet.
Necromancy as a specialist school really doesnt do much for lich. Crucially, unless its since been changed, you cannot use specialist wizard slots for mythic spells. If you are going to take spell focus anyway, I suppose spells like fear, banshee blast and wail of the banshee can be respectable bonus spells for a lich, but I would say evocation or transmutation bonus spell slots are more consistently useful.
Mechanically, Necormancy as a specialist school does nothing for Lich. Thematically it's the required choice. LOL
If I ever get around to a Lich run, definitely going Wizard Lizard.
Shame there's no lizardfolk
@@motivateddad true!
So the one gripe i have with elemental specialist is that at level 15 it makes half your damage do direct damage. Problem is that the calculations work like this:
Roll die + bonus damage+ item bonuses x 0.5
Then the second half rolls the die + bonus damage and item bonuses x 0.5 ...however any elemental bonus are no longer added, because the damage is no longer elemental. So you end up losing about half of your damage on the second roll. So at level 15 you are suddenly gimped to about 75% of your normal damage. I would advise multiclassing or prestige classing before you hit level 15
Hmmmm never realized that. Makes the case for Arcane Trickster even greater.
In my pen and paper game, my GM is very RAW centralized, and playing a wizard with him has been hard since I don't have a commanding knowledge of all the spells. Personally, I have played the druid more since to me, the list is much simpler, and I can be both melee and a caster with Natural spell.
Yup Druid doesn't provide as many options but that helps you in this situation.
@SlanderedGaming when I go wizard, I usually hard focus on illusions. With excellent CC on anything with eyes and brains that aren't hanging out and phantasmal killer / Weird, I usually can lock down fodder then after see if lady luck is on my side.
as for the question why Wizards dont get a Charisma sub-class for their casting its quite obvious... and in the description, Wizards draw their power from Knowledge and learning or an object/familiar not a Bloodline or innate power but from practice and knowledge. however A Sorcerer is innately magical, they are born with their magic as part of their being, A Sorcerer/Sage uses intelligence becasue they have magic bound to their being/bloodline in some arcane fashion or trough birth in some way, but they must still learn/train to be able to use it effectively like a Wizard, but instead wizards draw from magic around them or from a book or some kind of magical creature or familiar. that's why the Sage subclass use intellect, because they require learning to use their arcane blood, its not as innate to them as lets say an Empyrean who's born with a celestial ability from their heritage "wisdom" or a pure sorcerer who also draws their power form a bloodline of some sort(charisma). A wizard who can use magic from their heritage or bloodline is basically a sorcerer and magic would come somewhat naturally to them making them a sage and that's why sorcerers are usually depicted as young and hotheaded whilst Wizards are old wise and learned.
I don't understand why you cannot have a class for hot headed Wizard's like Jon Irenicus. Someone who most certainly has gained magical ability due to research and knowledge but at the same time has a fierce passion/will that is absolutely part of the driving force behind their power.
Why is there never an archmage prestige class for wizard
Ok well great, what th do I do with Nenio? Loremaster?
Yup Loremaster is a fantastic option for her.
Uh weird question what happens if you multi class a wizard into a sorcerer do you just get additional spells or?
You get a new spellbook. So technically you would have a lot more slots to use to cast spells but they would be weaker. Do not recommend
You get two separate spell lists you have to level up. Not something I would recommend, since it slows down your progression on both, and spell penetration would be lower for both. In a game with less spell resistance, it could be useful to have spammable sorcerer spells, and more utility wizard spells, but I don't think it would be a good idea in the main story.
Its a pretty common dip to take a level of crossblooded as an elemental specialist, that way you can get 2 dragon arcana dice added to whatever element you want. But as far as more than 1 level in a sorcerer, its not recommended to dip as a wizard into sorcerer as they are two different spellbooks that dont merge.
I love necromancy. If only it would work in real life, I'd be Queen of the world by now.
😂😂
My favorite class all the way from table top sad that it is weaker than sorcerer in video game.
Scribing scrolls should also use metamagic. Just craft the metamagic version and it should also have the same metamagic as if you used the version from your spell book. That or I've got a mod letting me do that but eh.
Even if that is possible it feeds into my point that it's too much work. LMFAO
"Why there's is an int sorcerer, but no cha wizard?". Because wizard is a booksmarts class, they can't thematically be anything other than int, otherwise the whole class-theme will break -_____-
I do not understand why that thinking applies to Wizards but not Sorceror's.
@@SlanderedGaming because sorcerers gain their powers from their blood/heritage, not from books
I think exploiter wizard is somewhat overrated. +2DC is quite good, but I am not sure its worth the loss of an extra spell slot per level and arcane bond in most cases.
Maybe it works best in Kingmaker in comparison with Wrath. The magic resistance for the enemies is much lower.
In every CRPG that I've played since Baldur's Gate came out, I have attempted to make a melee wizard/mage 😁
I've never beaten any CRPG using that theme, and always give up once I start needing to reload a dozen plus times per encounter, but I'll never stop trying 😄
LMFAO Good luck when BG3 comes out.
@@SlanderedGaming Eldritch Knight 7/ Wizard X is a popular multiclass in 5e. If they're going to add booming or green fire blade then it's going to be strong for SnB Eldritch Knights since Hexblade is off the table.
I like Wizards but in Pathfinder melee characters are more powerful.
THEN MAKE A MELE WIZARD
@@Dickmaster-adam You mean a magus?
Or any int class and give them the int scaling Glaive
@@JohnnyOrc no give a wizard a dagger and send him into mele
@@JohnnyOrc sad thing Is tried beating the campaign as meor wizard 7 DeX 7 strength 9 con It was on story difficulty still coulent beat the game that way:(
The fact is that wizard in pathfinder sucks because of lack of lv 8/9 spells, i'm playing one because i really love the class, but the experience just doesn't compare to baldur's gate 1 & 2, spells like time stop/wish/etc were just amazing. Yes, i know wizards were op AF in DND 2E and pathfinder 1E is not the same, but my point remains because the game has potential to have the best wizard/sorcerer ever in a CRPG.
Yeah in this game I think Wizards benefit more from using metamagic feats to raise the levels of their spells. It's not that you get incredible spells at 8 and 9.
Arcane bomber is kinda pointless to me . EVEN if I wanted a full caster with bombs I would rather go with an alchemist trickster and give it a spellbookwith UMD....
Yup if it wasn't a full caster I would've ranked it lower.
Arcane bomber if built correctly is kinda fun and doesn't suck. I'm running it on my current lich turning repentant legend on my playthru. Trick is to splash it with at least 8 grenadier, and lore master 3. I have a detailed write-up on steam needless to say ALOT of grenadier stacks with bomber and feats double stack the number of bombs with damage dice from both classes stacking.
The number of total bombs by end game legend is 84 grenadier/ 81 Arcane Bomber not counting bombs from int.
"End game looks something like
Lich: Grenadier 8/ Arcane Bomber 9/ Lore Master 3 (Caster lvl 22)
5 touch attacks at 9d6 +9 (Alkenstar Alchemist) + Int + 1 (Pointblank) + 1d6 + Mythic rank with 1 level drain no save, 15-20 x 3 crit per attack.
Or Living Legend: Grenadier 20/ Arcane Bomber 17/ Lore Master 3 (Caster lvl 20)
6 touch attacks at 17d6 +17 (Alkenstar Alchemist) + Int + 1 (Pointblank) 15-20 x 3 crit per attack."
steamcommunity.com/app/1184370/discussions/5/3595590330317173841/
Arcane Bomber is absolutely serviceable when combined with Lich but with any other Mythic Path it's very underwhelming.
@@SlanderedGaming Oh I agree, I sat down trying to break it one weekend. Only lich and legend it works with to almost abusive levels. But otherwise not worth messing with. Least it's not as bad as assassin I agreed 1000% with you on how bad it is. Assassin is worthless with no way to bypass poison immunity.