> covers thunder caller > mentions secret party member > the realization of what music was currently playing slowly sinking in I see what you did there ;)
Bard is my favorite class in D&D and also Pathfinder , in Pathfinder i only palyed as 2 of the archetypes , also on Core so i dont know how they perform in higher difficulties , here is a little review : Beast Tamer - Is the best summoner in the game , summons have high duration and are separate from the spellbook , only other class that have that is Inquisitor Monster Tactician , but they have summon monster while the Bard is Natural ally that is better , Azata or Aeon really make your summons strong and viable not only as meat shields. Dirge Bard - is the best Bard , make for a great enchanter , 1 level of crossblooded Sorcerer Fey / Serpentine and your spells work on everything on the game , also enchant school has a lot of itens to boost the spells , this was my first playthrough back when the game came out and i had alot of fun and no problems finishing the game on core. It's a really amazing class , but is not for everyone , you play kind of support and people dont like that style , but i really like , singing , casting spells and passing all skill checks , bonus point if you go Azata for your own little baby dragon.
> Natural ally that is better That is untrue. There's a sweet spot where Nature Ally VI summons Smilodon and Smilodon is still relevant, but it takes a while to get there and it doesn't last long. At high levels both Summon Monster and Nature Ally are bad because high tier summons waste their turn casting spells that can't punch through magic resistance. At low levels dogs and wolves from Summon Monster are better than mites and frogs from Nature Ally, because of the trip utility. I don't know about Dirge Bard being "the best" Bard. It is my favorite Bard, but the trade offs it makes are about equal to what it gets. Animate Dead barely works as a meat shield at WotR levels. I consider Bard vs Dirge Bard a roleplay level switch to be honest.
@@Kammereer The summon undead it's not the Dirge bard advantage , is the fact that your spells work on undead and you lose almost nothing , in the Martyr Zacharius's Cemetery for exemple i locked all the undeads with Hideous Laghter and Best Jokes , also you forgot natural ally you get Leopards and Boars before smilidons , both can trip and with Superior Summoning and the Book you get at the chapel i was summoning 6 leopards.
@@SlanderedGaming Beast tamer is the best RTWP/prep summoner. Evil MTac and Herald are far better in turn based as they can pump out more efficient meatwalls, but require turn speed mod or cheat engine game speed toggle from act 3 on to not be a slog.
One thing to note about Archeologist is that it's one of the better 1-2 level dip classes in the game. For one level you get +0/2/2 to your saves, a few rounds per rest of atk bonus not affected by armor as a free action, a bunch of skills and level 1 spontaneous arcane casting. Second level gives a feat and uncanny evasion which is super important defensively. Great for enabling builds going into RDD.
Your note in response to comments in your Arcanist video blew my mind! Editing a video in this style takes me forever, so seeing that you must be making these pretty much the day before they go live is incredible! Keep up the great work, and grats on reaching 10k!
Thank you! I decided not to do the videos way ahead of time in case there was valuable feedback from previous videos that I wanted to be sure was implemented. I have never done a series like this before so there was a lot of hesitation on my part honestly.
What I like about bards and skalds above arcanists is that those classes could be also competent melees, buffing themselves and multiclassing a little bit (4 dragon disciple levels is an easy choose for bards).
I always considered Bards and Monks as "gimmick' classes. But now you got me wanting to try out Dirge Bard. Sounds like my type of class, I love graveyards...
I'm playing an azata dirge bard, my little head canon is she dances so happily that even the dead dance along. It's powerful as hell in its own way, nothing world shattering but all of the fights are just a lot easier.
The Archaeologist does not "give up" Swift Action bard song - their Archaeologist Luck ability STARTS as a Swift Action. I would argue the Archaeologist is better at doing "Rogue" stuff than a Rogue (aside from damage output and debilitating effects). However, Bards get access to Sense Vitals at Level 4, so you could build an Archaeologist to have some limited Sneak Attacks (and you could add in some debilitating effects with Rogue/Advanced Rogue Talents). I would definitely rank this archetype above Beast Tamer, Flame Dancer, and Tranquil Whisperer, but it's obviously geared more towards solo/selfish play. Probably on par or slightly behind Thunder Caller (depending on difficulty level - the DC for Thunder Call may be difficult to land regularly on higher settings as it isn't a spell so you can't raise it with feats). Base class and Dirge Bard are definitely more powerful.
I think if it was an archetype for another class I might've ranked it higher but giving up bonuses that help the entire team to only help yourself and then focus on skill checks just doesn't appeal to me.
I think it would be fairer to think of the Archaeologist to be closer to an Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue that is better at skills and self buffs, but poorer at raw damage output. Remember that the Archaeologist's Clever Explorer ability adds 1/2 class level to both Perception *and* Trickery, making it a better trap/lock monkey. If combined with Trickster MP it could become a decent damage dealer as well. I just think the archetype is stronger than most people give it credit for.
You are correct in that Archaologist is pretty bad for an MC, and none of your companions really should take it. One place they shine is in DLC3. You can create an Archaologist and have them cover 95% of all skill checks (often taking 10 for an auto pass), they can heal better than pretty much any Arcane caster, and their luck bonus means they can be pretty competent archers without too much feat investment. Once I create one of these guys, I never worry about support again and my whole part can focus on wrecking face.
One other thing to keep in mind is Archaeologist Luck is a Swift Action that works with Lingering Performance. So, using it for only 1 round gives you 3 rounds of benefit. So, with turn-based combat, there is no reason to always have Archaeologist Luck going. Just using it every 3 turns.
I've sometimes used Archaeologist as a dip to satisfy spellcasting requirements for Dragon Desciple. It has the same spell list as bard, and for most characters that are going DD, the personal luck bonus you can turn on as a swift action is going to be more useful than a party-wide morale bonus (which is largely covered by a bless spell and worthless once you get access to heroism) that takes a standard action to activate. So yeah, not a great class as a main class, but as a small dip it's not bad.
Beast Tamer is a lot better than it seems. Unlike other classes, the summons are actually really strong, thanks to the bard song. I played one on core and they just destroyed everything. I would actually give it an A+. It's the best summoning archetype in the game by far. You can also spontaneously cast up to level 6 summon spells, which is better than it sounds since wolves trip. There are a lot of summoner items in this game which is why it's so good. The bard song does work with them, and it also works with any animal companion in your party.
Late but to add to that since i am running one right now is unlike other summoning classes your summons summoned with the class ability can act right away instead of waiting a turn which hurts most summoning in game
Bard is my sleeper powerhouse class, it's an excellent choice for MC in both KM and WOTR because you'll always have access to their excellent buffs, crowd control, skill checks and if you're building them properly excellent damage too. Don't just hand your bard a crossbow and wait for everyone else to take care of your problems, get yourself a polearm and get in there with them, your mythic powers will easily make up for any difference between you and a fighter very quickly. If someone is going to sing songs about your legend it might as well be you! That said... ugh, I kind of hate the flavoring for Dirge Bard. Yes, it's Bard+, but do I *really* want to piss off Pharasma that badly? If my MC isn't the Bard then it's probably Seelah, and do you REALLY think she wants to sing bad sad songs?
I would definitely rate the base Bard higher than C tier. The inspire courage song is a competence bonus, which stacks with most other buffs. This is huge, and it's available from level 1. If your parties' damage is mostly attack-based (includes ray spells), then bards significantly increase your damage. It's hard to notice since the Bard isn't doing the damage himself/herself, but it makes a massive difference. Here's a simple example -- A fighter with 18 strength wielding a greatsword will deal 1d10+6 (average 11.5) damage. A bard with 14 strength wielding a longspear will deal 1d8+3 (average 7.5) damage. *BUT*, with the inspire courage song, the bard will also add 1 to every party member's damage. That comes out to 13.5 damage total -- assuming everyone hits, but the bard's song helps with that as well.
"C" can mean it's a solid class but you would never pick it because one of the other class options is better. Besides fear of Pharasma there's no reason to pick Bard over Dirge Bard.
About the Bard vs Arcanist and Dirge Bard especially. One of the best buffs in the game are Bard only buffs, so no other class gets them and Inspire Courage in liu with say Good Hope, which is essentially aoe heroism, your party will never miss and deals tons of damage and gets increased saves. Now about Dirge Bard, one of the best bard abilities is the Fascinating performance, which outright disables every enemy in 30ft radius of the bard and Dirge Bard can use it on undeads also, effectively being able to insta disable 90% of the enemies in the game Now you have all the enemies disabled and can pick them off one by one at your leisure
You pick archaeologist over a rogue because it still gets level 6 spells along with its song. Bard spells are nice for a martial class, which archaeologist certainly is. I've never played one, but for me it should be C or B tier. The luck bonus song is a swift action right from the start, and stacks with most buffs. Losing the other songs is actually not that big of a deal if you'd be using foturne's favor all of the time since you can't stack songs.
Losing Inspire Courage is definitely a big deal since it's a team wide buff that almost certainly stacks with what your party has and is not replicated by anything that you get. Also Luck is more common than competence which reinforces it as a downgrade from Inspire Courage.
@@SlanderedGaming Yeah, yeah, but I was running with Linzi who had regular bard song which stacked; it made my character a regular Indiana Jones in a fight.
Loving this series, and the fact you’re responding to some comments. Still waiting for tower shield fighters…. Something like that. Also can’t wait to see the after everything quick F-S order.
I've really enjoyed this series and look forward to the next 21. I have a feeling i will be referring back to this series any time i create a new character. I want to create an Aeon Mystic Theurge who follows Nethys (as sub optimal as that may be) and especially look forward to seeing your videos on all the full casters.
Mystic Theurge is sort of weird. At high levels, you don't really run out of spell slots too much on single-class casters. You get better min-max power overall out of having your Divine and Arcane casters be separate characters on the roster. But the all-in-one lets you buff-bot a bit more easily, and you could choose to use it to free up a character slot for other things. I'm really torn as to what to think of it, and the MT character build path tends to suffer below level 12 or so. Angel and Lich merged spellbooks have a nice gimmick that lowers the level requirements, making your "major" casting class stronger. But yeah, Aeon is probably doable, and RP is not a bad thing. I'm not super familiar with Aeon, so if there are unique perks especially for dealing with Spell Resistance, maybe the synergies are stronger than I realize. Can't really say here.
(companion plot spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - ...I kind of laughed at the thought of Trevor with luck bonuses. He could've lucked into an easier life for sure...
wow, +4 free AC is huge bonus. It's irrelevant if you deal less damage and has less accuracy as long as you stay alive. Because obvious knowledge is that dead person deal zero damage. And you always has a nice d20 to hit the enemy. On the other hand, higher AC makes your character immune to enemy attacks, unless they roll 20, and you can prevent even that event.
Bard is a lovely class, and I'm personally fond of using mods to respec Arushalae as a Dirge Bard instead of a stinky Ranger. Dirge Bard is my favorite of the archetypes, because I like necromancers. But really, I wouldn't be building any Bard as a caster Bard. Sorcerer or Wizard do it way better, and Bard is better off investing their feats into being a beatstick. Stick to buffs for your spells. Bard vs. Brown Fur Transmuter. I feel like it's a bit of an apples to oranges comparison. They both provide different valuable buffs and neither can replicate the other. The strongest party will have both, because a Bard makes a very strong and viable frontline fighter, while Brown Fur provides 9 levels of spellcasting outside of buffs. If you can only have one, then I'd say Brown Fur is bringing more to the table, but Bard is way less micro. Also "great as an eight level dip"??? My man, that's half your levels. That ain't a dip, that's a whole salsa!
That's exactly how I feel about the bard, it's sad cause on Tabletop 3.5, they used to be excellent caster and the definitely best party buffer (as well as being able to take on the rogue skill monkey role !)
I’m sorry if this question has been asked already. But are you committed to doing the classes in alphabetical order or would you be willing to post classes based off player requests. Paladin? Also I completely understand if the paladin one isn’t done because you are doing these in alphabetical order. Thanks for the contact slandered.
@@SlanderedGaming But “P” is sooo far away. jk jk. I understand, again thanks for the content. We appreciate you! Now…You take care and have an amazing day! 😁
@@SlanderedGaming Ohhh thats dope I though she would have been a paladin still XD I have a hard time doing the Evil choses. Its HARD to let ember down lol
Luck bonuses are significantly less rare than competence. Prayer, divine hymn, divine favour, divine power and avengers blessing are all luck bonuses. This is a particularly terrible archetype for angels.
Ok, so I have a different take on the archaeologist. Sure, you lose the ability to buff the other party members, but there is a way around. Add a Monk Sensei to your party, and he will be the one who buffs your whole team with his songs. Since the Archaeologist buff is luck based, it stacks with the Sensei songs, which are competence or morale based. Suddenly, your archaeologist is better at opening doors and chests than a dedicated rogue, never misses his skill checks or saving throws, and is still very strong when it comes to fighting. And you still get to buff the whole party like a regular bard. Very useful when you want to succeed every persuasion/trickery/lore/knowledge check with only one character. I used this combo in Kingmaker, it's great to pass the checks necessary to have the best ending, the archeologist buff is also nice in the rare instances where your MC is the only one allowed to do skill checks (typically persuasion), like the Hellknight quest near the end of Kingmaker, or the last part of Daeran's quest in WOTR or the will save against Shamira in act 4. Then again, it requires to play bard as your MC, and add a monk sensei mercenary on top of it.
Yup and I don't rate these classes based on what other classes can do for them. I try to take each one individually and just mention if there are good multiclassing opportunities. It's synergy with Sensei would not help it's ranking.
Who on earth thinks bards can match a brow fur transmuter? Yes, inspire courage is a decent buff. But its not comparable to casting frightful aspect with +10 to strength and con as a size bonus, stacking with transformation adding +8 enhancement to all physical attributes, and fiery body on every for all the immunities, echolocation to save on blindfight, buffing pets with dragonshape 3 and so on. A serious contender would be skald, which is far more powerful than bard.
archaeologist and beast tamer rankings are pretty much backwards. a very effective self-focused bard w nice combat bonuses vs. being good at something that's bad.
Summoning is bad in this game but Beast Tamer has multiple mechanics that make it significantly better. I still would never choose it but some people just love playing a summoner and if that's what you want to do Beast Tamer is probably your best option. It's interesting to see so many people stick up for Archaeologist. I am not a fan at all but to each their own.
@@SlanderedGaming Well, you did say youre ranking them based on taking the class to 20, which you can do with an Archaeologist and have an effective character, but they are also a multiclass standby for a magical rogue or Arcane Trickster type build if you get some sneak dice from somewhere (like Knife Master). You compared them to rogue which is fair, but discounted that they add some rogue-ish abilities to bard spellcasting which rogues dont get, or has to give up a lot to be an Eldritch Scoundrel w wizard casting. Either way, Archaeologist's Luck is a great personal buff for a character, whether you take every level of it or only some. As far as Beast Tamer, I mean, I wanted them to be good, I made one before but didnt take it very far bc it was a painful run. Most of their resources are devoted to summoning, which helps when youre very weak but uses up your spell slots to keep it going, and once you run out of summons that can keep up at your current level you revert to being a pretty mediocre bard. With the way Wrath is balanced especially your summons are only ever just meat shields that will go down very quickly, even buffed (edit: oh, besides the ironically quite powerful mythic-level summons you can get from various unique items in the game, much stronger than any summons available to base classes).
The Thundercaller's Incite Rage ability ONLY affects enemies. So great against spellcasters.
Yup I didn't catch that here great call out.
> covers thunder caller
> mentions secret party member
> the realization of what music was currently playing slowly sinking in
I see what you did there ;)
😂😂
Bard is my favorite class in D&D and also Pathfinder , in Pathfinder i only palyed as 2 of the archetypes , also on Core so i dont know how they perform in higher difficulties , here is a little review :
Beast Tamer - Is the best summoner in the game , summons have high duration and are separate from the spellbook , only other class that have that is Inquisitor Monster Tactician , but they have summon monster while the Bard is Natural ally that is better , Azata or Aeon really make your summons strong and viable not only as meat shields.
Dirge Bard - is the best Bard , make for a great enchanter , 1 level of crossblooded Sorcerer Fey / Serpentine and your spells work on everything on the game , also enchant school has a lot of itens to boost the spells , this was my first playthrough back when the game came out and i had alot of fun and no problems finishing the game on core.
It's a really amazing class , but is not for everyone , you play kind of support and people dont like that style , but i really like , singing , casting spells and passing all skill checks , bonus point if you go Azata for your own little baby dragon.
> Natural ally that is better
That is untrue. There's a sweet spot where Nature Ally VI summons Smilodon and Smilodon is still relevant, but it takes a while to get there and it doesn't last long. At high levels both Summon Monster and Nature Ally are bad because high tier summons waste their turn casting spells that can't punch through magic resistance. At low levels dogs and wolves from Summon Monster are better than mites and frogs from Nature Ally, because of the trip utility.
I don't know about Dirge Bard being "the best" Bard. It is my favorite Bard, but the trade offs it makes are about equal to what it gets. Animate Dead barely works as a meat shield at WotR levels. I consider Bard vs Dirge Bard a roleplay level switch to be honest.
@@Kammereer The summon undead it's not the Dirge bard advantage , is the fact that your spells work on undead and you lose almost nothing , in the Martyr Zacharius's Cemetery for exemple i locked all the undeads with Hideous Laghter and Best Jokes , also you forgot natural ally you get Leopards and Boars before smilidons , both can trip and with Superior Summoning and the Book you get at the chapel i was summoning 6 leopards.
I agree Dirge Bard is the best bard but not sure yet if Beast Tamer is the best summoning class. I have looked at the others closely enough yet.
@@SlanderedGaming Beast tamer is the best RTWP/prep summoner.
Evil MTac and Herald are far better in turn based as they can pump out more efficient meatwalls, but require turn speed mod or cheat engine game speed toggle from act 3 on to not be a slog.
One thing to note about Archeologist is that it's one of the better 1-2 level dip classes in the game. For one level you get +0/2/2 to your saves, a few rounds per rest of atk bonus not affected by armor as a free action, a bunch of skills and level 1 spontaneous arcane casting. Second level gives a feat and uncanny evasion which is super important defensively. Great for enabling builds going into RDD.
Nice that's a good call out.
Your note in response to comments in your Arcanist video blew my mind!
Editing a video in this style takes me forever, so seeing that you must be making these pretty much the day before they go live is incredible!
Keep up the great work, and grats on reaching 10k!
Thank you! I decided not to do the videos way ahead of time in case there was valuable feedback from previous videos that I wanted to be sure was implemented. I have never done a series like this before so there was a lot of hesitation on my part honestly.
What I like about bards and skalds above arcanists is that those classes could be also competent melees, buffing themselves and multiclassing a little bit (4 dragon disciple levels is an easy choose for bards).
Congrats on the 10k.
Love this video series, it's really helpful as I plan out a gestalt party Unfair run using Toybox.
Thanks glad you are enjoying it!
I always considered Bards and Monks as "gimmick' classes. But now you got me wanting to try out Dirge Bard. Sounds like my type of class, I love graveyards...
" I love graveyards..."😮😮
@@SlanderedGaming necromancer by night 👻👹
I'm playing an azata dirge bard, my little head canon is she dances so happily that even the dead dance along. It's powerful as hell in its own way, nothing world shattering but all of the fights are just a lot easier.
The Archaeologist does not "give up" Swift Action bard song - their Archaeologist Luck ability STARTS as a Swift Action. I would argue the Archaeologist is better at doing "Rogue" stuff than a Rogue (aside from damage output and debilitating effects). However, Bards get access to Sense Vitals at Level 4, so you could build an Archaeologist to have some limited Sneak Attacks (and you could add in some debilitating effects with Rogue/Advanced Rogue Talents). I would definitely rank this archetype above Beast Tamer, Flame Dancer, and Tranquil Whisperer, but it's obviously geared more towards solo/selfish play. Probably on par or slightly behind Thunder Caller (depending on difficulty level - the DC for Thunder Call may be difficult to land regularly on higher settings as it isn't a spell so you can't raise it with feats). Base class and Dirge Bard are definitely more powerful.
I think if it was an archetype for another class I might've ranked it higher but giving up bonuses that help the entire team to only help yourself and then focus on skill checks just doesn't appeal to me.
I think it would be fairer to think of the Archaeologist to be closer to an Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue that is better at skills and self buffs, but poorer at raw damage output. Remember that the Archaeologist's Clever Explorer ability adds 1/2 class level to both Perception *and* Trickery, making it a better trap/lock monkey. If combined with Trickster MP it could become a decent damage dealer as well. I just think the archetype is stronger than most people give it credit for.
It's important to take Lingering song with the Archaeologist, since it triples the length of Luck.
You are correct in that Archaologist is pretty bad for an MC, and none of your companions really should take it. One place they shine is in DLC3. You can create an Archaologist and have them cover 95% of all skill checks (often taking 10 for an auto pass), they can heal better than pretty much any Arcane caster, and their luck bonus means they can be pretty competent archers without too much feat investment. Once I create one of these guys, I never worry about support again and my whole part can focus on wrecking face.
Nice that's a great call out thank you.
One other thing to keep in mind is Archaeologist Luck is a Swift Action that works with Lingering Performance. So, using it for only 1 round gives you 3 rounds of benefit. So, with turn-based combat, there is no reason to always have Archaeologist Luck going. Just using it every 3 turns.
I've sometimes used Archaeologist as a dip to satisfy spellcasting requirements for Dragon Desciple. It has the same spell list as bard, and for most characters that are going DD, the personal luck bonus you can turn on as a swift action is going to be more useful than a party-wide morale bonus (which is largely covered by a bless spell and worthless once you get access to heroism) that takes a standard action to activate. So yeah, not a great class as a main class, but as a small dip it's not bad.
Beast Tamer is a lot better than it seems. Unlike other classes, the summons are actually really strong, thanks to the bard song. I played one on core and they just destroyed everything. I would actually give it an A+. It's the best summoning archetype in the game by far. You can also spontaneously cast up to level 6 summon spells, which is better than it sounds since wolves trip.
There are a lot of summoner items in this game which is why it's so good. The bard song does work with them, and it also works with any animal companion in your party.
It's really good with azata
Interesting okay thanks for adding that.
@@SlanderedGaming they are still meat shields but with mythic summoning and various buffs they are not going to get killed easily
Late but to add to that since i am running one right now is unlike other summoning classes your summons summoned with the class ability can act right away instead of waiting a turn which hurts most summoning in game
@@ForeverCyber I still think a dedicated wizard is the best summonor, but beast tamer is way more fun.
For Thundercaller can’t you just turn off accept Rage on your spell casters?
You can.
@@Kammereer exactly, so it’s not that big of issue like he mentioned in the video
Correct. I've always ignored that option and COMPLETELY forgot about it when I made this video.
@@SlanderedGaming all good, thanks for the videos!
Want to say, I'm really liking this series. Thank you for it.
Thank you! Glad you are enjoying it!
Archeologist tank is really fun.
Bard is my sleeper powerhouse class, it's an excellent choice for MC in both KM and WOTR because you'll always have access to their excellent buffs, crowd control, skill checks and if you're building them properly excellent damage too. Don't just hand your bard a crossbow and wait for everyone else to take care of your problems, get yourself a polearm and get in there with them, your mythic powers will easily make up for any difference between you and a fighter very quickly. If someone is going to sing songs about your legend it might as well be you! That said... ugh, I kind of hate the flavoring for Dirge Bard. Yes, it's Bard+, but do I *really* want to piss off Pharasma that badly? If my MC isn't the Bard then it's probably Seelah, and do you REALLY think she wants to sing bad sad songs?
I would definitely rate the base Bard higher than C tier. The inspire courage song is a competence bonus, which stacks with most other buffs. This is huge, and it's available from level 1. If your parties' damage is mostly attack-based (includes ray spells), then bards significantly increase your damage. It's hard to notice since the Bard isn't doing the damage himself/herself, but it makes a massive difference.
Here's a simple example -- A fighter with 18 strength wielding a greatsword will deal 1d10+6 (average 11.5) damage. A bard with 14 strength wielding a longspear will deal 1d8+3 (average 7.5) damage. *BUT*, with the inspire courage song, the bard will also add 1 to every party member's damage. That comes out to 13.5 damage total -- assuming everyone hits, but the bard's song helps with that as well.
"C" can mean it's a solid class but you would never pick it because one of the other class options is better. Besides fear of Pharasma there's no reason to pick Bard over Dirge Bard.
Really enjoying this series 👌
About the Bard vs Arcanist and Dirge Bard especially.
One of the best buffs in the game are Bard only buffs, so no other class gets them and Inspire Courage in liu with say Good Hope, which is essentially aoe heroism, your party will never miss and deals tons of damage and gets increased saves.
Now about Dirge Bard, one of the best bard abilities is the Fascinating performance, which outright disables every enemy in 30ft radius of the bard and Dirge Bard can use it on undeads also, effectively being able to insta disable 90% of the enemies in the game
Now you have all the enemies disabled and can pick them off one by one at your leisure
Yeah I really like the Dirge Bard kit.
Loving this series!
Glad to hear it!
Small nitpick: The video title is Part 3 instead of Part 4.
Other than that, many thanks for your videos. I find them fanstatic and enjoy seeing them.
Updated thank you!
Ooooooooh so that's what dirge bard does. That sounds rad
You pick archaeologist over a rogue because it still gets level 6 spells along with its song. Bard spells are nice for a martial class, which archaeologist certainly is. I've never played one, but for me it should be C or B tier. The luck bonus song is a swift action right from the start, and stacks with most buffs. Losing the other songs is actually not that big of a deal if you'd be using foturne's favor all of the time since you can't stack songs.
I ran an archaeologist in Kingmaker cause it stacks with bard song. I think many people did not notice that.
Losing Inspire Courage is definitely a big deal since it's a team wide buff that almost certainly stacks with what your party has and is not replicated by anything that you get. Also Luck is more common than competence which reinforces it as a downgrade from Inspire Courage.
@@SlanderedGaming Yeah, yeah, but I was running with Linzi who had regular bard song which stacked; it made my character a regular Indiana Jones in a fight.
Was thinking of making a bard azata named Tom bombadil
Loving this series, and the fact you’re responding to some comments. Still waiting for tower shield fighters…. Something like that. Also can’t wait to see the after everything quick F-S order.
Yup I respond to all my comments it just takes a while to get to them sometimes. I feel like this interaction is key for good community building.
Regarding summoning - if you use Toybox, there is an option to control summoned creatures. Much more like tableop.
Oh wow that's pretty cool I didn't know that.
Yeah super helpful with summing that azata early without stunning your own
I've really enjoyed this series and look forward to the next 21. I have a feeling i will be referring back to this series any time i create a new character.
I want to create an Aeon Mystic Theurge who follows Nethys (as sub optimal as that may be) and especially look forward to seeing your videos on all the full casters.
Awesome I am glad you have been enjoying the content.
Mystic Theurge is sort of weird. At high levels, you don't really run out of spell slots too much on single-class casters. You get better min-max power overall out of having your Divine and Arcane casters be separate characters on the roster. But the all-in-one lets you buff-bot a bit more easily, and you could choose to use it to free up a character slot for other things. I'm really torn as to what to think of it, and the MT character build path tends to suffer below level 12 or so. Angel and Lich merged spellbooks have a nice gimmick that lowers the level requirements, making your "major" casting class stronger.
But yeah, Aeon is probably doable, and RP is not a bad thing. I'm not super familiar with Aeon, so if there are unique perks especially for dealing with Spell Resistance, maybe the synergies are stronger than I realize. Can't really say here.
slandered's voice is like an audio version of Xanax. in a good way
😂
i'd love to see you talking about pathfinder kingmaker, specifically about the new classes and features added in the call of the wild mod
I defiinitely plan to circle back to Kingmaker at some point.
You missed that the rage thundercaller ability is not for your allies but for your enemies, so it shuts down enemy spellcasters not your own. :)
It's actually for all of the above but yeah my assessment of that ability should've been better.
I believe there's two different versions, one for enemies and one for allies.
I have a sneaking suspicion that Imma be here for the next ~200 days handing out thumbs up >.>
I sure hope so! 😂
(companion plot spoilers)
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...I kind of laughed at the thought of Trevor with luck bonuses. He could've lucked into an easier life for sure...
😂😂
dirge bard Lich MP and you can raise your own heavy metal band
😂
Spells. Spells are why you'd pick being a bard over being a Rogue. (Don't ask me why you'd pick them over being a Vivi though)
There are some dank bard builds for massive damage, so you can actually roleplay as Eddie Riggs, voiced by Jack Black from brutal legends.
Nice!
Have you confirmed, after your other video, if BFT capstone is retained after a reload or game restart?
No I haven't tested it myself but I am pretty sure this was resolved in a patch a couple of months ago.
@@SlanderedGaming thanks for the reply. Keep up the good work, you, crpgbro, and morty keep this game alive 🎉
wow, +4 free AC is huge bonus. It's irrelevant if you deal less damage and has less accuracy as long as you stay alive. Because obvious knowledge is that dead person deal zero damage. And you always has a nice d20 to hit the enemy. On the other hand, higher AC makes your character immune to enemy attacks, unless they roll 20, and you can prevent even that event.
Do you happen to remember where that thumbnail art is from?
Bard is a lovely class, and I'm personally fond of using mods to respec Arushalae as a Dirge Bard instead of a stinky Ranger.
Dirge Bard is my favorite of the archetypes, because I like necromancers. But really, I wouldn't be building any Bard as a caster Bard. Sorcerer or Wizard do it way better, and Bard is better off investing their feats into being a beatstick. Stick to buffs for your spells.
Bard vs. Brown Fur Transmuter. I feel like it's a bit of an apples to oranges comparison. They both provide different valuable buffs and neither can replicate the other. The strongest party will have both, because a Bard makes a very strong and viable frontline fighter, while Brown Fur provides 9 levels of spellcasting outside of buffs. If you can only have one, then I'd say Brown Fur is bringing more to the table, but Bard is way less micro.
Also "great as an eight level dip"??? My man, that's half your levels. That ain't a dip, that's a whole salsa!
That's exactly how I feel about the bard, it's sad cause on Tabletop 3.5, they used to be excellent caster and the definitely best party buffer (as well as being able to take on the rogue skill monkey role !)
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Wish these were like 5e bards which go up to spell level 9
That would be awesome.
👍🏾👍🏾🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I’m sorry if this question has been asked already. But are you committed to doing the classes in alphabetical order or would you be willing to post classes based off player requests. Paladin? Also I completely understand if the paladin one isn’t done because you are doing these in alphabetical order. Thanks for the contact slandered.
Alphabetical order because all the classes have their fans and if I did it by request I'd be pulled in 10 different directions.
@@SlanderedGaming But “P” is sooo far away. jk jk. I understand, again thanks for the content. We appreciate you! Now…You take care and have an amazing day! 😁
What compaion is the Thundercaller? I havent seen any?
*Spoilers*
The Lich version of Queen Galfrey is a Thundercaller.
@@SlanderedGaming Ohhh thats dope I though she would have been a paladin still XD I have a hard time doing the Evil choses. Its HARD to let ember down lol
Isn’t there a generic ability that you can toggle to not accept rage effects?
Yup and I COMPLETELY forgot about it. 😂
Luck bonuses are significantly less rare than competence. Prayer, divine hymn, divine favour, divine power and avengers blessing are all luck bonuses. This is a particularly terrible archetype for angels.
Ahhh I didn't think about that but good call out.
Ok, so I have a different take on the archaeologist.
Sure, you lose the ability to buff the other party members, but there is a way around. Add a Monk Sensei to your party, and he will be the one who buffs your whole team with his songs. Since the Archaeologist buff is luck based, it stacks with the Sensei songs, which are competence or morale based. Suddenly, your archaeologist is better at opening doors and chests than a dedicated rogue, never misses his skill checks or saving throws, and is still very strong when it comes to fighting. And you still get to buff the whole party like a regular bard.
Very useful when you want to succeed every persuasion/trickery/lore/knowledge check with only one character. I used this combo in Kingmaker, it's great to pass the checks necessary to have the best ending, the archeologist buff is also nice in the rare instances where your MC is the only one allowed to do skill checks (typically persuasion), like the Hellknight quest near the end of Kingmaker, or the last part of Daeran's quest in WOTR or the will save against Shamira in act 4.
Then again, it requires to play bard as your MC, and add a monk sensei mercenary on top of it.
Yup and I don't rate these classes based on what other classes can do for them. I try to take each one individually and just mention if there are good multiclassing opportunities. It's synergy with Sensei would not help it's ranking.
@@SlanderedGaming
Fair enough. I just wanted to mention this neat combo ^^
And Linzi was called forth...
I am really hoping there's time for a Kingmaker run next year.
I'm pretty sure the only reason Archaeologist exists is so you can play Indiana Jones...
😂
Who on earth thinks bards can match a brow fur transmuter? Yes, inspire courage is a decent buff. But its not comparable to casting frightful aspect with +10 to strength and con as a size bonus, stacking with transformation adding +8 enhancement to all physical attributes, and fiery body on every for all the immunities, echolocation to save on blindfight, buffing pets with dragonshape 3 and so on. A serious contender would be skald, which is far more powerful than bard.
The past two videos have taught me some folks are REALLY passionate about Bards. LOL
archaeologist and beast tamer rankings are pretty much backwards. a very effective self-focused bard w nice combat bonuses vs. being good at something that's bad.
Summoning is bad in this game but Beast Tamer has multiple mechanics that make it significantly better. I still would never choose it but some people just love playing a summoner and if that's what you want to do Beast Tamer is probably your best option. It's interesting to see so many people stick up for Archaeologist. I am not a fan at all but to each their own.
@@SlanderedGaming Well, you did say youre ranking them based on taking the class to 20, which you can do with an Archaeologist and have an effective character, but they are also a multiclass standby for a magical rogue or Arcane Trickster type build if you get some sneak dice from somewhere (like Knife Master). You compared them to rogue which is fair, but discounted that they add some rogue-ish abilities to bard spellcasting which rogues dont get, or has to give up a lot to be an Eldritch Scoundrel w wizard casting. Either way, Archaeologist's Luck is a great personal buff for a character, whether you take every level of it or only some.
As far as Beast Tamer, I mean, I wanted them to be good, I made one before but didnt take it very far bc it was a painful run. Most of their resources are devoted to summoning, which helps when youre very weak but uses up your spell slots to keep it going, and once you run out of summons that can keep up at your current level you revert to being a pretty mediocre bard. With the way Wrath is balanced especially your summons are only ever just meat shields that will go down very quickly, even buffed (edit: oh, besides the ironically quite powerful mythic-level summons you can get from various unique items in the game, much stronger than any summons available to base classes).
What bard party member??
*SPOILERS*
Undead Queen Galfrey.
See I haven’t done a lich play through I feel the companions add way to much to the game to justify the evil