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3 Methods to Attach a Table Top - DIY Furniture
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- čas přidán 6. 07. 2021
- 3 Methods to Attach a Table Top. Rob Cosman shows you his three favorite methods to attach a table top to the base and to allow for wood movement. If you want to build furniture to last you must account for wood movement.
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Learn more about how to deal with wood movement here: czcams.com/video/vHkZG-HDelQ/video.html
Liked the last one
All I can say is Cosman's methods are the gold standard for fine woodworking. That, and "We are not worthy".
This was literally the question I asked in the last Q&A, makes me so happy to see a video on the whole topic.
It’s made entirely out of hand tools.
Is a gentleman’s statement. I take great pride saying, this bench is nothing but joinery and glue. No metal. It can still hold 300lbs. People just say, huh. But I’m proud of it.
And you should be….
I love watching your videos and absorbing all this acquired knowledge of years. The 2 washers to prevent it from embedding in the wood is genius and something that nobody would know unless they've had experience to tell them or been taught by someone such as yourself. It seems so simple when someone explains it, but I imagine it can save a ton of effort and heartache if a table splits 10 years down the line.
Thanks for sharing your decades old experience in woodworking with novices like me.Much appreciated.Best wishes from India.
These are my favorite type of videos. I feel like I'm getting schooling at no cost to me! Thanks 😊
Absolutely. Others would charge money for what Rob teaches. I can fully credit him for taking me from never working with wood before to being able to cut clean hand cut dovetails and sharpen my tools very well within just a couple months. All through free CZcams vids
Glad you like them! You keep watching and we will keep making them
An absolute incredible resource!
You Mr. , have just pointed out something really important. You said no cost, actually you are paying trough your internet service, your Time and Rob's knowledge and infinite passion to share with us. (Thanks Mr.Cosman)
This is the future of education, at least the beggining of it.
Watching this video tonight makes me want to try to take on making my first table this winter, thank you Rob and crew!
I was taught what you call buttons when I was 14 back in 1969 at school. We didn't have machinery. A router was a Record Multi-Plane or a bit like a spokeshave that many viewers will know about. Strange to think the furniture I made for my parents back then is over 50 years old. Wish I'd kept the walnut standard lamp with small table for Mum to put her knitting needles when we cleared her house. It was too tall for the house we lived in when she died
Great video. Great tips. Great teaching structure. Always learning something from these videos and the fortnightly live video. You do a service to the wood working community. And that's quite apart from the astounding service you do through the PH foundation. If Canada was still a colony you'd be called Sir Rob.
The dowel solution is pretty clever, and adds visual interest with the last iteration featuring the through dowel. I've always used figure 8 fasteners but maybe I'll give the dowell method a go next time.
Great video Rob. You've given me a great idea. I love the dowel thing. It looks very classy.
Just the information I was looking for. Thanks
This video came out just in time, working on building a table and getting to the point where I'm almost ready to attach it.
Thanks Rob. Watching this happens when I'm actually making a table. Appreciate the knowledge you share.
Yes we knew that so we made this one for you!!!!!!
I learned a lot. Thanks for sharing/teaching.
Good stuff. I have been using buttons for years but I think I will try the dowel method on my next project.
That was really on the button, top tips!
Cool. Thnx Rob. Saved my bacon..
Hi, Rob. This question is probably pretty unintelligent.
Those dowels seemed to fit really tightly. Will they still allow the aprons to move along them easily without being waxed? Could humidity cause them to swell slightly and bind?
You are easily the best teacher of woodworking around. Thanks to you and your team for what you do.
Jim
Thank you for the great lesson
Great and very educational video!!! Thanks!!
Just saved my a trip to get Z clips. Thank you.
thank you i was just building a outside table, perfect timing great info.
Hello Mr. Cosman, I've just begun watching your channel.
I'm a long time woodworker/journeyman kindling maker, I enjoy watching your videos. Tried and true methodology. I don't suspect you'll see this comment but aside from the many things you teach that I'll enjoy re-learning, your apron is the watch clincher for me.
6 yr Naval aviation wrench bender vet serving in VT-86. I'll see if I can scare up a patch for you. "Fly Navy/Marine Corps or take the bus!"⚓🛩
Thanks Tom, each patch represents one of the combat wounded Vets that we hosted in out week long workshop. First class since covid shut us down will be August 23! Thank you for your service to your country!-Rob
@@RobCosmanWoodworking Oh boy, I did not know the significance of your patches. I won't be sending one of mine, I was never wounded. Pardon
Great video, Rob~! Good info for the info arsenal. Thanks much~!
Wow! Thanks for a great video
Very cool Rob.
Oh this is an elegant solution
This is the best way to hide or show. I dont like the crazy 8's, over time they rust. Not good. The blocks work but to my eye still a block that I know is their.
Thank you Rob and team.
Awesome job
Just. thank you!😊
Perfect timing building a table myself right now.
Thats why we made this....we knew you were working on your table!!!!!
Thank you so much for sharing this.
About to have to fix a warped and cracked table because the builder hadn’t accounted for wood movement… and I’m not even done building my first workbench 😅 never done a table, so this is definitely helpful!!
Excellent. Really enjoy the tutorials! Thanks
Keep watch and I will keep filming
Apparently I've been chamfering dowels the hard way all of these years. Always nice to learn a new trick.
I should patent that!
I should patent that!
Thank you
I'm really enjoying your latest teaching videos and always learning something new Thanks Rob and crew
Thanks for watching and comment. What video should we film next?
What i am struggling with is trying to make an 8 sided box and wondering if you have ways of aligning and reinforcing the joints Also having a hard time getting perfect 23.5 Very close but last joint has a gap i need to try and adjust Not sure how interesting for the channel as I there aren't many videos I can find on octagonal boxes Thanks
Cool. I like how you do it with the dowels.
Thanks Rob! Any chance you can do a video showcasing the Cherry table you are refinishing? Or maybe do a similar build on your online workshop? My wife wants me to make her a small writing desk in a similar style and dimensions.
I've been thinking about this today and it occurred to me that the Polynesians and other boat builders solved this brilliantly thousands of years ago.
Take a look at how sewn boats attach planking to framing.
They used, some still use rope/twine to make the connection. Planks would have raised eye hole sections next to framing members, then rope/twine is wrapped through the eyes and around the frames or through holes in the frames, then the separate legs of rope/twine are wrapped/frapped together to cinch them tight.
No nail/screw rust damage to wood. No breaking screws. No glue. Anyone can repair very easily without any tools but a knife to cut twine.
I have used both the washer/screws, and as well as the buttons technique. Somehow, the use of dowels seems simpler. It will be in my next project. Placing a camfer on the dowel using drill and block plane was very clever.
I've learned so much about woodworking from your channel. You are a legend Rob Cosman!
Well how about a good woodworker......better legends out there than me, but thank you so much
Thank you very much. This has been very helpful for this beginning woodworker.
Question: I am planning to build a workbench with the top made of 2x4s laid on edge. Will the lateral movement of the wood laid on edge be significant enough to require this special joinery?
Thank you again.
Excellent tutorial with thorough and clear explanations. My only question is do you glue the aprons to the table top?
Tricks for chamfering and flattening the dowel 👍. Nice smooth result. Interesting how the dowel technique uses three fixed dowels on the end stretcher (that runs across the grain of the top). Does that mean the dowel method is not really suitable for a wider top (say, 2 or 3 feet)? Buttons to the rescue. Thanks for the video.
thanks
Very nice information thanks you now I need to go back at a few project I did wrong and correct😂
I was just researching different ways to attach a top. You must have heard me. 😁
Yes I did....loud and clear
I like the dowel hack
Because I usually make thick table tops and 4x4 inches legs (posts really), I use sliding dovetail for the stretcher/apron which is not glued and allows top expansion and contraction. The end of that stretcher slides in/out of the recess cut in the leg post. Stretcher is glued only to 2 legs and moves freely in/out of the remaining 2 legs. Top is attached to the legs with the wedged through mortise and tenon .
Video of how I make it will be coming up end of July 2021
I will have to watch that. Contact Luther at robswebmaster@robcosman.com and lets talk about doing a collaboration video
@@RobCosmanWoodworking I'll be honored. please bear in mind that I have only 269 subscribers, and my channel is barely just starting to exist.
PS
email sent from
info [at] tigercarpenter.com
please check Spam folder if you can't see it.
thanks again!
PS2
you can have a look at how I attached my table top here:
tigercarpenter.com/working-desk/
@@RobCosmanWoodworking my video on the no base / no apron / double blind (hidden) shouldered sliding dovetail table top is now ready, if you'd like to see how I built it.
czcams.com/video/SMe8KYavnV8/video.html
Question about the buttons: why not just screw the button to the top instead of screw and glue? Doesn’t the glued button prevent future removal of the top, should it become necessary in the future?
Thanks, as always....rr
Hi Rob, do you think the buttons need to necessarily be glued to the top? Planning to use it in a bench and would like to be able to disassemble in the future to refresh the surface, but also don’t want to compromise the stability.
This problem is sitting on (well fallen off of) the little sofa table downstairs. Thanks for the solutions!
Is this still necessary if e.g. you put a c-channel / and used metal legs for the bottom (more of a slab technique), or is this only necessary when the table legs are also made of wood and you're getting expansion there as well as the top?
I haven't tried it yet, but they lazy way of doing buttons that I'm thinking about would be to cut the mortices with a Domino (slay me now), narrow seeting for centre button, and wider settings for the edge buttons. Square off the holes with a chisel. The only other thing to bear in mind is that the button gets sized to the domino hole & position, not the other way round. I'd be using the depth stops on the domino fence to create the distance of the mortice from the edge of the apron, which, once set, would allow for a whole "button strip" to the cut on the table saw, and then cross cut to width. That would "mass produce" them and fit quickly.
I have done that several times and to me, it is a safe and convenient way to repeatedly cut the mortises for the buttons at a consistent height, depth, and width. As you pointed out, one can roughly adjust the width of the mortise for play on the Domino. This really works quite well and moves along quickly. If you have a Domino, this is another use for it. I still hand cut the buttons as Rob did, of course and you can square the ends of the mortises if needed.
If you're using a domino anyway, you can just cut a mortice in both the apron and a small rectangular block of wood (registering both for height on the same surface, but always on the narrow setting for the block). Glue an appropriately sized domino into the rectangular block and drill a hole through to attach to the table making it your button. I've done similar with dominoes in the past with success.
I probably should add that the reason I still cut my buttons instead of using a mounted domino is that I match the wood of the buttons to my trim or some key wood in the table for aesthetics, and then cover the counter sunk screw with a contrasting wood plug. It looks kind of neat. I know most people do not look underneath at the buttons for a table, but that is just my thing.
@@bicparker1 I actually carve mine from diamond, adhered to the table top using the secretions of the rare brain eating amoeba worm in a specialised laboratory setting. It's worked out significantly less expensive than purchasing lumber at today's prices.
it did help. how would you make a curved apron? solid wood or lamination. and how would you cut out for the curved drawer front? would be a cool video to watch.thks
Rob how do you get those upraised ridges on your clamps?
The through dowels look great! Never seen that design before.
Do you see any need to be able to remove the top for refinishing? You had the top off of your first demo table (the one you were refinishing), but if you glue in the buttons or dowels, the top would be permanent.
Hide glue....maybe? I was wondering the same.
Hello. I found your videos about 2 months ago and have watched dozens of them since. I LOVE them and your work. Thank you for doing the videos. I am a retired American living on the coast in the Philippines. I have a 4" X 36" X8' slab of bitaoag (a native hardwood species) and some 4" X4" pieces that have been air drying for about 2 years. I would like to make a large dining room table from them. How would you suggest attaching the legs to the top? Thank you very much for any suggestions.
How do you shave off the dowel top with a hand plane and not shave the apron?
Rob thank you for this video. I wasent thinking when I made an end table from solid hard wood, havent attached the legs and aprons yet but drilled pocket holes, the top is in 4 pieces glued up as a panel. If I secure it with pocket holes and back off the screws a 16th or so will that be ok. I live in New York, not sure if you will see this comment hope to hear
You need to dill the pocket holes oversized. Maybe drill them with the jig, then drill the hole again with a larger bit so you have an oversized hole so the screw can move freely back and forth in the pocket hole with seasonal movement . just backing it out wont do it
Which one would be the strongest for a heavy kitchen kart/island that will be moved around occasionally? Hardwood butcher block top on pine aprons, no casters. I like the idea of dowels but I'm afraid eventually they'll loosen, or split out of the pine over time.
What about using figure eight washers.
So for an mdf tabletop on a softwood apron I can just straight up glue it straight on our pocket hole screw or on? Mdf won’t expand etc
Hello Mr cosman, as I watched this i was sawing at my bench, and even made a "button" really fast. Lol. After I did it and thought about it, it hit me like a ton of bricks. Lol. The, oh ok moment. But I have a question. I am a all hand tool "shop" in my living room. If you want to do something you will find a away. But could you cut a groove all the way around like the bottom of a box or drawer bottom?
When using a softwood for the apron, do you use hardwood for the dowel?
I’ve used both, not sure it really matters beyond looks.
At around 9:50 You said, " I'm just eyeballing the center of that hole"
I'm curious why you don't just drill the small hole first all the way through and then follow it up with the big hole so you don't have to eyeball at all
I have s vintage dining table that has no way of attaching the top to the base. Please help. Diameter is 40”.
Hi, and thank you. I have a question. What if the table top is made out of plywood? How does it affect the way you attach it to the frame?
Very nice idea with the dowel, something different. Where did you get the countersink drill bit?
Its just a basic bit. Probably at Woodcraft
Would you only use dowels on a hardwood table top and aprons?
You my boy blue
How would method one be that much different then a pocket hole?
How wide should table legs be?
So, instead of all the extra work in using the buttons, why not just cut a slot with a biscuit joiner - and you're done? very effective. It has been a very successful method with furniture makers for decades.
I like the third method best, use a domino on the ends with a slotted screw hole for expansion.
That works too!
That would look nice with some shop made dominos of the same or a contrasting species of wood.
I don't see any room for movement using the dowels on the cross grain end of the table (usually the short apron).
Only thing that worries me with gluing the buttons is being able to remove the top in the future to, say, refinish…….or you don’t worry about removing the top to refinish……?? I like the dowel method…..seems simpler and easier than the button method….
Cheers
I was wondering the same thing with gluing the buttons down to the top. It would add some nice strength, but would make it impossible to remove the top down the road. I guess you could trim off the tongue portion on each button to free the top. Once you remove the screws you could flush cut the buttons and plane down the residue. Granted, you'd have to then make new buttons. Rob is amazing. I'm sure he'd have several back up plans.
I really like the dowel method. How would it change if you were attaching a wider table top, say 36 or 48 inches? Would the three dowels close to the center of the ends be sufficient?
Thanks for another great video.
What are your feelings on attaching tops with sliding dovetails?
I was thinking this as well, yet pondering it still as I wonder if a dovetail could potentially place all the stress on the “tail end” of the joint creating the potential for splitting the apron along that line, whereas the dowel being round may apply more evenly? Still noodling but the best way is to build something and find out, right? :)
Is the movement in the aprons not enough to push up on the top because of their size?
So the apron will move, but not a lot since its going to be 4-8" wide, But since its attached to the table all the movement will be in the other direction or away from the tabletop
@@RobCosmanWoodworking so when we cut the tenons smaller then the width of the stock and glue the tenons then the unglued shoulder, is allowed to expand and contract downward, right?
For the first one, why can't I just pocket screw it?
Am I missing something? Is a figure 8 fastener not an option?
Yes they are, I just do not use them and I dont discuss methods I dont use or have not tried
This is kinda driving me crazy. Wood DOES move longitudinal. Altough, at around 0.01%, it's very little, but depending on the length of your workpiece and your jointing methods, it could be a significant factor. Take your stiles for a closet/wardrobe for example. Those doors can easily be as high as 70 inch or 6 ft or whatever, and at this length, your movement could be as worse as 0,5 - 0,7 inch. Good luck opening your resessed door half year round, with just 1/16 inch gap around it.
And then there is Neodymium :))
If you glue the buttons to the top you'll never be able to remove the top. I always use screws only. the same goes for the dowels method.
Woodglut has a very large project base.
Its not going to move that much. Cherry would move .01-.02 of an inch
"some people may not have access to a 4 inch screw" proceeds to show us end bits, presses and all the equipment used instead of sourcing 4" screws... come on man lol
Just buy a second hand table . You literally can't give tables away , no need to chop down the rainforest at all.
False. Lots of people willing to purchase tables.
had a good sleep.
Wait this is cheating 28:05.
I don't know. Seems like a good way to get consistent chamfers fast. Up to the capacity of your drill chuck anyway.
@@bobd. yes i rly like this
No way am I gonna watch this doofus be over detailed
That’s not very nice.
Everyone needs an APFSDS tank round in their workshop 🙃