When to NOT use pocket screws... and when you SHOULD! | Evening Woodworker
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
- Have you ever wondered exactly when you can use pocket screws and when you can't? Have you seen the pocket hole-shaming that sometimes appears in woodworking forums? In this video, I break down why pocket hole screws should only be used in certain situations and not others. We talk about wood expansion and contraction as well as what makes a pocket screw different than a regular screw.
00:00 Intro
00:10 Wood expansion and contraction
02:26 When can I use pocket holes?
04:23 When to NOT use pocket holes
05:06 Tabletop fasteners
08:00 Do I need pocket hole screws?
Links:
Temperature and Humidity Sensor: amzn.to/3t8LQ2G
Kreg Pocket Hole Jig: amzn.to/3zSe0S0
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Website: www.eveningwoodworker.com/
I am an engineer by day and a woodworker by night... usually after the kids are in bed and before the neighbors call the cops!
I have a passion for building things out of wood and all things woodworking. I am always looking for new projects that look fun and challenging. My woodworking inspiration comes from my kids, my wife, and the forests around my house. I consider myself a serious hobbyist and I hope you can learn something and get inspired from the projects and mistakes that I make. I will also show you how I organize and work in my small shop in 1 bay of my garage. I will share videos of my past, current, and future woodworking projects with the goal of getting you out in the shop making sawdust! - Jak na to + styl
Check out more of my favorite woodworking tips & tricks: czcams.com/play/PLV-F3MjIQnNSGeaOHEjQeFnUVlVj77_Au.html
Hello new sub here...Checked with Amazon on the Pocket Hole Jig and they are currently sold out but i did order one on Walmarts web site. Thanks for your videos.
I like dowel rods and pocket hole joinery.
Very good information 👍
I had to check that the player was on normal speed because you managed to say everything worth saying in less than 10 minutes, 1% of the time I've spent watching other videos on the subject. Excellent!
Thanks! I try to make my videos efficient, helpful, and not boring!
Ya, thanks for not saying "I'll get to that in a minute" thumbs 👍
@@EveningWoodworker brilliant, most American videos I have to watch at 1.25- 1.5 x because of the slow speaking. Short and succinct is best. Even Paul Sellers who’s a fantastic Brit super craftsman (hand tools) I think oh my god 1h30 minutes to make a plane handle….. yes it’s a master class scenario but even so ….
Oh yeah. Under the old algorithm, this could have been several videos. I’m waiting for a competitor to force youtube to back away from their incentives to always make longer and longer videos.
In the meantime, I’ll watch this guy who packs the max into ten minutes.
Perfect speed - a lot of info delivered in a short time
This was super helpful for a complete pocket hole novice! I see so many people just throw pocket holes in things, that I had no idea there were even rules around when it should be used and how.
As someone about to use pocket holes for the first time, and on an expensive piece I'm making, this is gold! Thank you. I especially liked the view of the screw in the exposed/cut open slot so I could see where the pilot hole was located.
Great! I'm glad it helped
You've given the clearest description of wood expansion I've seen. Well done, sir. What I've done to eliminate the problem of splitting on the cross grain is to drill an oversize hole for the pocket screw. This allows the left to right expansion while the head firmly holds the pieces together. Thanks for the excellent video.
Yes, that's a good quick solution if you want to use pocket screws across the grain. Glad you liked the video!
🤢🤮 a.d.d. got me confused af
I couldn't agree more completely.
@@tumblindown5509 a d.d is a poor excuse for not learning self control
@@Arthurian. what is that!?! Selph can't roll?
Wow dude. I've been working with wood for 30 years and nobody has ever explained this to me. A lot of my botched builds make sense now. Glad I caught this before starting my cabinets for my camper conversion. Gonna be extreme temp and humidity changes in there.
I am surprised you have not learned that. That´s usually what you learn in the beginning. I am sorry you missed out for so long.
Just remember wood can only work if get´s the moisture, you can prevent this by applying paint for instance or depending on your living conditions maybe the moisture in the air does not change too much and thus you don´t really need it, or your piece of furniture is small and thus the small movement does not matter much.
What a great explanation of how pocket holes and wood work together. I'm getting ready to build cabinets and you have probably saved me some headaches. Thanks so much!
Glad it was helpful!
Excellent explanation! I had to go back a few times and rewatch specific parts of the video, because there’s so much information that is hard to grasp at once. No need to say how passionate you are about this subject.
Very educational. Your explanation of wood expansion and pocket holes will help a lot of us avoid grief and disaster. Your tips are highly appreciated. Thank you.
Having built a number of outdoor pieces using pocket holes, I appreciate the information presented here and now realize why one particular chair's joins were failing after some time. Thanks!
Glad it helped! Outdoor furniture will get expansion and contraction most severely.
That’s because pocket holes make for terrible joinery
@@davidmcgrath6507 Not in my experience.
@@davidmcgrath6507 Pocket holes are good when used wisely. A lot of people just don't know when and when not to use them.
@@MarkK01 Pocket holes are bad in your pockets. Stuff falls out all the time.
As a beginner woodworker I would have completely missed this. Thank you for the advice!!
Very informative, detailed and without unnecessary dialog. You have a new follower.
I aso feel that you have given the clearest description of wood movement & use of pocket holes that I've ever come across. Excellent video. Thank you for taking the time!!
Thank you! I appreciate that!
Really like the bubble example to explain wood fibres. My daughter is taking a high school construction class. She is working on her 2nd project, which is a wooden step stool. The instructions state to use pocket holes in the side rails to attach the top. The rails have a horizontal grain. I took industrial arts in school, so I knew that this was a disaster waiting to happen. I needed to explain to her why you can’t do this. Kids never want to believe their parents, especially “Moms”, because we don’t know anything about wood 😉 This video was perfect, and now she actually understands why this is wrong. When she hands her project in to be graded, she will have to explain why she altered it. I told her to include this video link in her explanation. The school has an English instructor teaching the construction class, which is probably why the instructions are incorrect. Hopefully the teacher will learn something as well and be able to change the way he teaches or at least this project. Thank you so much!
That's an awesome story! I love that she was able to learn from it and hopefully educate some adults too. I hope her project went well!
Aside: I happen to think that sending one's children out of the home to be educated to be unnatural. One of the metamessages of this is the parents implicitly admit that they don't know enough and the "teachers" do. In truth, no one can educate your child better than you. Alas. In some homes this disastrous effect is unknown. In most homes, however...
@@EveningWoodworker Her project turned out well. There are no worries that the legs will ever fall off. Her final grade was an “A”.
what if you’re more ignorant than the teachers? There are a lot of ignorant teachers but there even more dumb parents.
I’m a total beginner and this video was very helpful…thank you 👍🏼
All about the expansion/contraction. Great seminar. Thanks from the woodworking world!
Although long, you kept my attention the entire video. Very informational, and you clarified the confusion I had about both wood and pocket screws. Thank you.
Great info. I live in the mountains and we have huge temp & humidity swings. I'm new to woodworking and would not have considered expansion/contraction when using the Kreg. Thanks for yet another fantastic info packed video.
Glad you liked it! Definitely something to consider in your designs
Great job of clarifying the do's and don'ts'. You also cleared up the ambiguity about the angles you can use pocket screws for. Finally, thank you for showing the difference between a bevel head screw and a designed pocket hole screw.
I really enjoyed your explanation of wood expansion. You broke something down so well that anyone can easily understand it! Thanks!
Great tutorial! You're a good teacher. This video was clear and concise. Thanks for sharing it with us.
Thanks!
This was SO exceptionally helpful! We're weekend warriors, with just enough knowledge to occasionally cause some major mess-ups. LOL! This helped explain our mistakes and prevent more in the future. Thank you!
I'm glad it helped! Good luck on your projects!
I learned SO much more in this one video than I have learned in all other videos combined about woodworking. I never realized any of this before, but now it all makes so much sense!
I'm glad it helped!
Ok, video number two watched... I think I'll just get rid of some "other" woodworking subscriptions... Now that's a compliment..! Between your engineering knowledge, excellent video presentation and sharing it all... well, let's just say thank you from this "You Tube Academy" student... 😎👍
Thanks for the info!
Very technical and simple at the same time.
Cheers!
This was great. I'm completely new to using pocket screws and loved them for the project I worked on. Now I know not to just use them anywhere thanks to your clear explanations.
Wow. Even though I knew all about expansion and contraction of the wood, I never thought about how it can affect pocket joinery. Thanks for this. 👍🏼🇨🇦
Excellent presentation. AND in all the woodworking videos I’ve seen no one has ever discussed this. Thank you!
Glad I can provide some clarity!
Thanks, well done. I needed to be reminded about the width dimension.
This has to be one of the best presentations on using pocket screws. Much appreciated.
Thanks I'm glad you liked it!
I see others have mentioned it but I agree: your straw analogy of wood grain is great. Nice job.
Super explanation - very practical and, I expect, really useful - thank you 👍👏
Thank you and learned a few things about pocket holes. I guess I've been fortunate to not accidentally use the screws in a way that would be counter to wood movement. While I started my journey with woodworking using a Kreg jig, I wish I had known about the Armor Tools jig 1st. I find their jig eliminates all the little annoyances I have with the Kreg version.
You are one of the few people who explain this in detail. Thank you so much. I understand when to and not to use pocket holes much better as it ve been staring at something I created to attach my 19 inch tv to an old video camera tripod I’ve repurposed. I’m using scraps of MDF in this case but think I’m going to use some plywood scraps I have. Thank you again for your time and great advice. God Bless!
Just another commenter adding that as a total pocket hole newbie, THANK YOU! this makes so much sense and also explains a lot of my confusion around pieces expanding and contracting
Give your screws a quick reverse to minimize shifting. It will start a pilot in the board to be joined and the threads will clean out the pilot so it draws better and doesn't thread itself away from the joint. (Also pray to the tool gods for a castle tsm-12 to level up on the pocket hole game-no clamps or shifting.) Keep up the good work🔨👍
Have the tsm 30 it’s awesome
Great info.
Taking note
Wood expands in direction perpendicular to the grain.
2:20 Expansion in plywood is negligible because it consists of layers whose grain run perpendicular to each other.
2:55 more on plywood
Wonderfully composed and edited video. Conveyed all the needed info with just the right amount of detail. Bravo!
Thank you sir!
thx for making the vid! As a newbie I can't tell you how valuable this is. You cut out a lot of trial and error for me
Thank you, this was a very well thought out and informative video, great job explaining 💫
Glad you liked it!
@@EveningWoodworker sooo what about using pocket holes for MDF?
What you didn't address was how the wood moves when screwing in the first pocket screw. Clamping is critical here to make sure that when the screw first hits the second piece of wood, the turning of the screw doesn't move the second piece and ruin the joint. I learned this the hard way. So, it is NOT just a matter of drilling a bunch of holes in the first piece and then merrily go about making perfect joints. One has to plan out where to put the screws and what is going to move when turning the screws into the second piece of wood.
Good point, if you don't clamp the joint properly when putting those screws in, due to the angle, things can move before you even realize it!
I have used a pilot hole (3/32) thru the bore of the pocket hole, into the receiving piece of wood to minimize the movement problem. And clamps
@@EveningWoodworker How bout a vid on how to minimize pieces shifting when driving together
@@anyfoolknowthat - do you really need a video to explain such a simple thing as using a backing board and a clamp that suits your particular work??
@@johncoops6897 I still have wood shift, even with multiple clamps
One of the best informative videos I've seen. Great job. Thank you
A treasure trove of valuable information in a such a short video! OMG Thank you!
I was all set to be the contrarian and defend my pocket hole screws. Then you taught me some stuff. This is a really smart, practical, and efficient video packed with great information and explanation. Nice job! And thank you for a well reasoned approach. I expected yet another video on why analog is superior to digital and what I got was how each is great for its own applications (I tried to think of a better metaphor, but it’s early and not enough coffee, yet). I’m saving this for future review!
Thanks! I'm glad you got something out of it!
Expansion/contraction is something to pay attention to. However, the pilot hole created by the jig (the narrow stepped part at the tip of the drill bit) is larger than the screw shaft. So unless you also glue the joint there is a bit of wiggle that could allow one piece to move laterally against the other.
True there's a bit of wiggle room, but for large tabletops, that might not be enough
Amazing video! Best 10 minutes spent on CZcams. Problem is, there is so much good info here, I keep watching it over and over. lol
I'm glad you like it! Feel free to watch it over and over again!
Superb subject matter knowledge and explained in a simple straightforward manner. Thank you !!
There is a mistake at 6:45 - when building a set of shelves you *CAN* attach the shelves to the sides using pocket holes. Yes the upright will increase in width, but the shelf will expand at EXACTLY the same rate. A dado will certainly help keep the shelf flat, but serves no function regarding the climatic expansion of the parts. A couple more screws will almost do the same to help keep cupping under control.
Good catch, if the grains are going the same direction then it should expand together, however if one is solid wood and the other is plywood, you could run into an issue.
and you can use one pocket screw (or some other fixed fastener) in the center of a skirt or other application when the grains are perpendicular. Kind of like your live edge cabinet when you fixed the back so all expansion is forward. Having 1 fixed point makes the top feel more solid imho.
nice video and explanation of expansion/contraction across the grain. however, the problem is not limited to pocket screws. any rigid joinery is going to suffer from the same problem across a lot of grain. a glued dado for breadboard ends provides more glue surface for the joint, but the wood fibers along the joint may eventually tear out just like pocket screws may loosen in that situation. i also think you overstate the problem a bit. in your example with of 6" boards with a butt joint, you said pocket screws might be a problem. but if you are using glue in the joint the problem is not different than a dowel or biscuit joint. these latter joints are stronger but not more resistant to expansion/contraction damage (a mortise and tenon would solves= that problem, if it's a problem). in practice, smooth sanding followed by a well-maintained surface finish will reduce the number of expansion/contraction cycles during daily relative humidity fluctuations and mitigate cycles during seasonal fluctuations. your topic is not really about when not to use pocket screws, but when to use joinery that will accommodate expansion and contraction across the grain
Good point, it can happen with other types of joinery too, it's just that I've seen so many designs with pocket screws everywhere, it seems to be a common area of confusion with pocket screws.
I’m 66 years old hobby woodworker and that is the best explanation of wood movement and pocket hole attachments I have ever heard. Young man you just blessed and old man!!
Great! I'm glad we can learn stuff from each other. I'm sure you have lots of wisdom in areas I'm lacking.
Fantastic,...every sentence full of info and insight....great show!
Pocket screws are great for aprons on table tops: you just have to slot the hole to allow for wood movement. Then that wonderfully unthreaded part of the screw acts as a spring to absorb the movement. The screw keep the table top held to apron while allowing for seasonal movement with the slotted opening. This is an old technique, been used as long as wood screws existed.
That's true, if you allow for wood movement with a slotted hole, even a pocket screw could work to hold a table top on.
Sure, ever had a look at a drawing board ?
Can you explain this more or link a video showing it? Which end of the hole gets a slot? Do you mean where the screw exits should be wider ?
I've been a Cabinetmaker 40+ years and never ever used pocket holes. We use real joinery and assemble properly.
I’m a new woodworker and I associate the pocket hole technique with cheap furniture. I’d like to make cabinets myself for a house I’m building - can you tell me what to use INSTEAD of the pocket hole technique? It seems ubiquitous.
@@dianearnold5381you would use mortise and tenon joinery.
Great job clearly and thoroughly explaining the topic! Thanks!
Well done explanation of wood expansion and the need to be aware of how to connect the wood pieces.
One of the best explanations of when and where to use pocket holes I've viewed. You have a real talent for clearly describing and demonstrating a concept. Consider me a new sub, I'm looking forward to going through you catalogue of videos. Cheers, dave
Thanks! I appreciate the compliment. I'll try to keep producing good stuff!
SO clear and concise. Instant follow
Great description of expansion with different types of wood. Thank you I have never heard of pocket screws.
Real good info for those of us who build inconsistently....Thanks
Thanks for the video. I'm just getting into woodworking and didn't know about the wood expansion effect. This was a very helpful video.
Wowza. Best video in pocket hole screws I have seen. Well done.
Wow, you just saved me a lot of headache and I learned so much in a short video. Thank you!
Very very well described , thorough short but to the point. Cheers
Thank you for doing this. I now have purchased screws tailored for pocket holes. I would have wasted my time searching and guessing prior to watching your video.
I'm glad it helped!
Great video. Very accurate and straight to the point. Thank you for your time
Very interesting! Super clear explanations! Congratulations!
Very well edited and informative. Thank you!
This is something I would have never thought of. Excellent discussion.
Great video man. You teach/explain so clearly. I love your style. And the video/production quality is great too. Definitely subbed. Look for to learning more from u
Thanks I appreciate your support!
Great information! I'm very new to woodworking, and so I've been devouring woodworking videos on. I have a very nice pocket hole jig that I bought from Armor (I like it's features and construction better than Kreg) and I'm very, very pleased with it. Honestly, I had never considered expansion and contraction of the wood. I'll be paying attention to that now as I move forward with my learning and building. Thank for the great video!
This is really helpful. And really logical when you explain it. Thank you
I'm a rookie at this and you explained this really well. Thank you.
Excellent, very thorough video.
Hey, we got that same cool. We've used it few times. Never did we ever thought about the expansion situations. Good tips. Thanks 👍
Have just 2 words about this video, perfect explanation .
I have no idea on what I’m doing, but I’m grateful that I bumped into this video. According to you and how I’ve been utilizing my Kreg 320 Jig, I’m doing it correctly. Also, I love the bug out compartment, I may want to include one for myself in the future. For now, I’m just doing the research.
So informative. Thank you for explaining why- it helps us think. I said a lot of “that makes sense” while watching the video. You are very talented. Love your channel and I subscribed! Cannot wait to learn more from you. ❤️
Thanks! Welcome aboard!
very good, down to the point.
Thanks from California.
Awesome explanation! Thanks for your time and effort!
yes your love for wood working comes through! learned a lot thanks!
Super presentation! I learned much in a very short amount of time. Thank you!!
Excellent, and I agree with your presentation. Very succinct and accurate.
Some have said this already but this video was so fantastically information dense. Thank you for bucking the trend of fluffed up, nothing burger videos
I hate those too! Glad I can add some value for people
Dude, excellent video, so clear & concise - I learnt a few things ... Thank you
Very informative video, better than many I've watched. I built two chairside tables about 4 years ago. Still holding strong. Used pocket holes & glue. These tables are always indoors where the temperature and humidity is relatively constant. Gives more flexibility in pocket hole joinery; don't have to worry too much about wood expanding. Outdoor furniture is a different story. I don't think I would ever use that method for outdoor projects.
Yeah the outdoor stuff definitely gets the worst of it. Even inside though can have some humidity swings, at least where I live!
Great video! You have beautifully explained an issue that is mostly either glossed over, or just plain not explained, as far as I am aware.
👍👍
I'm glad to provide some clarity to the subject!
Wow this was a really good in depth video I didn’t know I needed. Thank you!
Good video, thanks. On too many boards where they get bashed… but it’s what brought me into woodworking
Thank you! I learned a lot in less than 20 minutes!!!
Superb video. Learned so much in a short space of time.
Nice explanation and love your pieces of furniture.
Awesome, the straw analogy makes sense and will help me with my woodworking!
Excellent presentation and very useful information. Thanks
1,000 comments already, so no idea if anyone already said this - Kreg does have a variety of pocket holes screws, enough that it could be it's own video for which to use when (coarse/fine thread, with/out washer head, micro-sized screws/holes, coated...) But as to the meat of this video and wood movement, thank you! I learned a lot ;^)
WOW! Never heard of a pocket screw, but now I know when not to use them! Fantastic vid!
Precise and concise, I'm a newbie to pocket hole joinery. I just bought a pocket hole jig, so glad I came across this video....
Love from Bangladesh.
They're pretty useful... Good thing you're learning about it before messing up any big projects!
Brilliant clear explanation
Great info! You brought up some things I had not considered before.
Thanks - especially liked the clear explanation about the screws.
best video on wood expansion by far!