Tools Not To Buy | Learn From My Mistakes !
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
- Rob shares the 9 tools he will never agian buy
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2:55 is the Woodriver brand a very good plane? I know its a woodcraft house brand, but as far as fit and finnish. Smoothness of opration
Sole plates flatness and accuracy of its design over all as a budget brand. Or would you recommend somthing like Bridge River over the number 4.5 ? Or an older Stanley
Oh completed questions but it gets down to the point.
What gets the job done verses pride in your tools.
What can the beginner wood worker buy to do the job as a hobby vers a labor of love and pride as a full time craftsman doing his art?
The difference between a functioning table or a work of art.
I would be interested in your opinion of a new Clifton 5 1/2? Any chance of a review? I like that is is made in Briton as I am from the UK
Hi Rob. A message should be ---don't be afraid of modifying tools to suit personal preferences. That heavy handled chisel - make a new handle. That out-of-square mortise chisel, get it re-ground square. Etc etc. No tool is sacred. If there is a sharp corner that annoys, grind it off. Enjoy the channel. Cheers!!
Modifying tools is fine, but it’s not the topic of discussion of this video. This video is meant to be a warning to take into consideration BEFORE buying any of these tools in the first place. If you buy the right tool the first time, you don’t have to modify it at all. He’s not talking to anyone watching this video who already has one, some or all of these tools.
He’s talking about balance, not weight. Because the neck of that chisel is so long, any handle throws it’s balance off in a close grip for paring like he was holding it. 14:02
While it’s not in this video, he does compare the Narex mortise chisel to a preferred brand in a different video and he does say that it could be grinded square, but it’s so much meat to remove that most people would overheat their chisels and ruin the tempering. For that reason, and because they’re made of softer steel, he does not recommend the Narex mortise chisels at all.
Yes I understand where you are coming from. However, what is the option for those who already own those tools - throw them away or modify? The world is in trouble because of the throw away attitude that exists. Also surface grinding uses a coolant and the material is not overheated. @@surlycanadian
I think it depends on what level of work one wants to accomplish. If I want to do rough general work, I would keep it and make do. If I want to do truly fine hand tool woodworking, I throw/give my inadequate tools away, and get the appropriate tools. Otherwise, I view it as a waste of time and energy.
We all learn lessons. Hard lessons and easy lessons. I’ve purchased thousands in tools that I wish I spent differently. I learned along the way, in part, by watching those like Rob.
@@johnspathonis1078 I said he’s not talking to people who already have the specific tools. This video is not for them. The topic isn’t “do you have these tools I hate?”. The topic is “if you’re thinking about buying these tools, don’t”. Since he’s not talking to people who already own these tools, modifying them is an irrelevant point to his actual target audience for this video; people who don’t have these specific tools.
‘Learn from my mistakes and don’t buy these”
“I already have them”
“Okay, you’re not the target audience for this topic then.” Go watch another video that is more relevant to your existing situation
You have more options than just throwing them away or modifying them. You could sell them or give them away to a starting woodworker.
Ben detto a volte anche il nuovo ha bisogno di essere corretto o modificato
Excellent presentation on what tools not to buy.
I’m only 70 years old and started woodworking at age 4 so I don’t quite have as many years of experience as you, but I totally agree with everything you said.
He's only been woodworking for 700 years and thinks his opinion counts 😂
I know…he’s so cheeky….but I keep watching his channel.
I like going to estate and yard sales to find old hand tools which I restore. You learn a lot about hand tools restoring them and usually the quality is unmatched. I have bought some rusty dull hulks that I've turned into gems.
It's nice to hear well considered opinions from people with a lot of experience. Learning from other people's mistakes is a lot cheaper than learning from your own.
Thanks for the video.
I concur! 😊
I really never thought about the saw handle but now understand why it is important thank you for the explanation
I bought a dovetail saw with a round handle because I thought it would improve my woodworking. Every time I get it out I regret it and swap to a cheap Irwin pull saw with a D handle that produces very clean cuts. Its nice to have my experience vindicated with respect to the handle design. However the absence of a back on the pull saw really helps me see if I am holding the saw parallel to my line. I like the minimal set on the pull saw too. Not sure if I am going to spend any more money on dovetail saws unless I find a vintage one in a flea market.
Just to add my 2 cents as a japanese wood worker for the dozuki saw. Unlike western saws many japanese saws are ground for either hardwoods and softwoods. Usualy for hardwood you need a higher tpi saw and teeth ground for hardwoods (slightly shallower angle on teeth). You can stil cut hardwood with a sotwood saw but you need to be gentle and careful, hardly applying any pressure at all.
Additionally dozuki saws are very delicate and fine, they are meant to be used with little to no pressure when cutting ans you need to prioritize straightness. If you don't you may loose a tooth. After that they will leave an excellent and flat surface.
I love the dozuki for dovetailing. But having only used mediocre western saws before, it cost me 2 blades to learn how to use it properly. 😅
However, I converted the damaged blade to a pull-blade to use it up properly. =)
yeah, what's up with the "hundred years design?" japenese also did alot of woodworking way before the industrial revolution
yeah i would definately trust japanese woodworking finesse over western. the attachment to life in general compared to overiding it and forcing a path is part of the culture, compared to our brute force sort of approach.
book of five rings even has some exellent woodwork advice 😂 and that guy was a samurai..but he understood the nature of wood.
id also trust our ignorance of japanese culture to be pretty solid, so were missing most of the education on the tools and practices.
Because of lung problems I am currently replacing a lot of power tools with hand tools. This video is very helpful. Thank you!
I pray peace and calm enables for you better breathing, especially during your biggest challenges.
✝️☝🏾💜🙏🏿
I have become a big fan of Japanese pull saws. I find it easy to make a straight cut with the pulling motion. It offers more control than pushing I feel. Great tips in the video anyway. I also prefer a hefty planer, it gives a smoother movement.
@@NeilAbaloneHave you tried a dozuki for cutting dovetails? It changed my mind, although I love using my ryoba and pull out my kugihiki way more than I ever thought I would…
@@NeilAbalone I don't know about the handle of your dozuki, but all of my Japanese saws have oval cross section handles, and so I can use them rather reliably. If one's into vertical cuts only, one can still clamp the piece slanted by the necessary degree.
I'm a pull stroke fan, too, but I do agree with Rob about the problem of the thin blades on Japanese pull saws. I took a regular back saw (called a tenon saw here in the UK) and dismantled and turned the blade round so it now cuts on the pull. Bit of work, but well worth it.
Just modified the handle of a number 4 plane to suit my larger hand and now it's so much more comfortable and easy to use. I also made it suit my right handedness.
Thanks for the great video. I'm an old guy who's new at hand tool woodworking. I inherited a few tools when my father in law died, one of which was a Stanley #6. You're so right about the weight an stability you get from a plane of that size. Considering that I've learned most of the techniques I use from you, I'd probably have bought a 5-1/2 if I hadn't already had the 6 but I think the difference between them is inconsequential. I also got a couple of block planes in the acquisition, one being a 60-1/2 and that's the one I reach for pretty much every time. Funny, I didn't even realize how much more comfortable it is until you mentioned it. Finally, you're so right about the sharpness being the most important part as it pertains to the amount of work it takes to use it. A few videos back you quipped that there are guys who put off sharpening until it's to the point where they gotta get another guy to help push it and that cracked me up. But...I also took it to heart and when I notice I'm working up more of a sweat or when I want a really special finish on the wood a touch-up on the stones is definitely in order.
Thanks Rob. Three of the tools you discussed are on my to buy list. You just made it much easier to select the right ones.
Buy whatever tools you feel you need for the job, mastering good quality traditional tools expand your skills.
I think you missed my point. These are tools that at one point I “thought” I needed, but in reality shouldn’t have purchased. The purpose of the video is to hopefully save someone else from making the same mistake.
No.3 plane being light keeps the weight considerably down in small tool box for site use !
With regard to the gent's saw, the "correct" and effective grip is to move your hand forward, so that your thumb and index finger are pinching the blade. This way, you will feel the angle of the saw the same way as a dovetail saw.
Thanks for the tip.
You had me at 'if the blade is sharp being wider won't matter'. I'm a beginner woodworker, but I've used knives cooking and other jobs for decades and I've seen how the sharper the blade the safer and easier the work. Really like the way you explain stuff.
Always happy to get the opinions of a fellow Canadian. Keep up the good work!
All good points and all well taken. Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and stay safe.🙂🙂
A great set of suggestions born from what appears to be much experience. Thank you.
Rob, you present some good arguments for your tool choices; while l learned to cut dovetails pins first with a dozuki, it was in relatively soft poplar and while l have been a planeophile and still love my collection l may devote a little more time to two 51/2s l have. Thanks for your input.
Dear Rob, absolutely agree on the saw handle point. Any favorite saw with a true handle grip will improve the directional action and increase muscle memory. Those round handled saws are of better use in a jig. For Japanese saws it’s different, because of the pull action. Hardwoods indeed are less accurately cut with traditional Japanese saws. Oyakata makes a garden style saw with a slightly thicker blade. That saw is more suitable for hardwood. Although I must add there that to allocate saw blades for hardwoods is also helpful. Humbly think it also depends on the level of skill, muscle memory and whether the cut is with or against the grain of the wood. Learning to saw straight is imperative, for folks that push too much, the Japanese saw can be a learning experience, especially for finding the balance between applied action and letting the tool do the work. Great vid, am not a prolific user of planes, definitely will look into your shooting board plane jig vid. Cheerio
Great info! Thank you!
Thank you for sharing. Great information.
Good list. Thanks for sharing.
You are so right about the Japanese saws.
Good information. I use planes and chisels primarily for framing and misc remodeling and agree with most of your opinions. I hadn;t thought about the blade angle contributing to the angle of attack on my block planes. I agree, learn to sharpen tools. Sharp cuts, sorta sharp tears wood fibers.
I love your honesty. Thanks again for a no nonsense opinion… that I agree with by the way. I don’t have a show but I’ve been making furniture for almost 50 years.
Send us some pics of your stuff and we will post it to our customer gallery
@@RobCosmanWoodworking post here or another location?
Great explanation - no bs, verifiable facts.
Very, very helpful.
Bravo Rob a whole video and not one tool needed to be plugged in or have a battery. I am a joiner and have always used a 4 1/2 and a 6 while working on a bench.
Never thought about the mortise chisel stuff. thanks.
Always a great video and insight from a pro.
Great video. Thanks
Thanks for the opinions, sir. Good stuff indeed.
Thanks. Im a traditional carpenter from Norway. Like your videos.
This guy's a gem. Thanks!
Nice Planes brings back memories. I used to work in antiques and collectibles in Niagara Falls while being a carpenter at the same time and I used to collect antique tools. I even had a flexible Base plane that you can make the base convex or concave so you could plane rounded objects.
They make great Japanese dovetail saws for western hardwoods, but they are priced similarly to your saw. The $45 ones work much better in softwood and require a more gentle hand imo.
But traditionally, japanese saws were made for local hardwoods in Japan which are mostly softwoods, and they take practice and skill to master properly.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking they make saws with teeth specifically designed for western white oak (or similar) but they are $200+
I’m not sure if they take significantly more practice than western saws. Western saws seem to take a decent amount of practice too, but you would know way more on that than me.
For a beginner woodworker, this is a highly valuable advice!
Great advice thanks.
Nicely put. Your experience means a lot.
It's my pleasure
I enjoyed the tips and have been doing carpentry for 6 decades. Starting at ten years old with grandfather ❤
Thank you for this video .
Just got my Woodriver 5-1/2! Looking forward to using it a whole lot!
Definitely appreciate the reasoning, thank you
Haha the man sold it hard when he flatly said “I’ve been working with wood for 700 years” and kept moving 😂
Very stimulating discussion. Left me thinking.
then it was worth watching
I'm in the UK. My biggest waste of money was a Surform plane, this thing is like a mega open file. The only thing I've ever used it for in 50 years is rounding off fence posts.I agree with you about the 41/2" plane, I use itall the time, its always on my bench, Ive just had to buy a new blade but (even purchased from Axminster Tools) that the steel is as good as the old one. Other problem on my large bench plane, is that the cast iron has aged so that the bottom has raised areas where-ever the casting is thicker. I could spend hours scrapping to blue on a plate glass, but haven't the patience, so I'm looking out for a firm with a surface grinder to true it all up. I hads an old 7 where the surface grinder had to take off 15 thou to get it flat and the same on the sides to get it back straight and flat.
Ive never got on with those pull saws. My favourite was made by Sorby and that too was my grandfathers.
Its nice having old tools that were my Grandfather's that are 150 years old, but their maintenance needs some effort.
During the lock-downs I couldn't buy new throw-aways when they got blunt. A diamond three square file worked a treat, bu you cant reset them.
Thank you Rod
I always enjoy your take on tools and projects, thank you!
Thanks for commenting and watching
Pretty impressive advice ✨✨✨ Thank you
Thank you Rob.
Thank you for watching
nice ! really enjoyed this, thanks
Thanks for sharing
Very interesting. Thanks. I definitely feel like I could have done without my low angle jack. Shooting board is where I used the most which is still not a lot but I rarely grab it. My low angle block though, I use that ALL the time.
Great video, great info! Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
That hand plane mold for shooting boards is genius!! Want one! I built your shooting board 2 months ago (I didn’t know what I was missing!). Have been using it ALL THE TIME. Although my hand gets a sore spot in the palm. This is just what I need!
We are going to add a rubberized soft cover for it soon
Saw comments most interesting! Thanks for insight. More than just tension vs compression.
Yes it is and I didnt even touch on the tooth sharpening issues
Hi rob thanks for the video certainly know what to buy now thank you
I have a Veritas low angle jack that I was at first trepidatious about, but I’m getting incredibly smooth cuts on everything from highly figured walnut to jatoba and even ipe (crazy I know, but I like the look on a small box). I have to agree though that it’s all about sharpness at the end of the day.
Thanks for all you’ve taught me over the years, Coach Cosman. Cheers!
A lot of people like their low angle jacks. Some are on CZcams and I believe are very skilled.
Rob is entitled to his opinion and his comments are valid for him and others
If I owned a low angle hack, I think I might grind the bevel a little under 25° and hone a microbevel a little less for an angle of attack of about 38°. I've tried that on my block plane and I really like it on end grain. Otherwise I don't see much difference, I might someday want a higher angle of attack than 45°. A low angle hack gives you flexibility.
But if you sharpen well, I don't see much need to increase the angle. You can control the tear out other ways. Tight mouth, minimal blade extension past the chip breaker, planing technique.
@@jimweisgram9185 Awesome insights. I appreciate it, brother. Hope you’re enjoying yourself in your shop right now. 😊
I’m a big fan of my LN #62. It’s basically my jack for sure. I agree with mostly everything else. And from my experience most planes, if tuned well, can smooth. When it comes to shooting I find the biggest issue I have is a dull blade. Can shoot anything almost as long as your blades are sharp and maintained. Thanks for the video Rob
I love my Veritas #62 used it much more than expected .
I have my Grandfathers 62, given to me from my father. I like it a lot but I think more because it belonged to him. I would have never purchased one if my father hadn't given it to me.
I have a Veritas low angle jack plane. It was pretty much useless as a shooting plane but works beautifully otherwise. I purchased a #6 from Cosman. It's a little large for shooting but works well for that. It doubles for use jointing medium length pieces for musical instruments I make. The first pricey saw I bought was a gent's saw. I never use it. I have Narex mortise chisels which do have sloped sides. I have learned to use them passably well.
excellent. thank you.
Excellent information
Thank you so much Rob. Very informative . Julien
I have made my first wood hinge box after ordering your jig to make holes in the center of the dowels. Works just great. I need more practice. I used 1\4 dowel should have used
3/8.Will see what happens.
Hi, what's the name of that jig?
Thanks again for your opinions ❤
In Germany, Dictum sells a low angle jack with a detachable shooting board grip called "hotdog" ❤
That's the one I use. It's great. And at the cost, you can even keep it as a dedicated shooting plane only.
Great video. Personal preference is everything. You talk about what I call the joy factor. It is subjective and sometimes you can’t even explain why, but a tool or a process makes you happy. For example, if I commissioned you to make a shaker table with a drawer but stipulated you must use those 9 mistake tools, that table would come out as well as if you used your preferred tools. What would be missing would be the joy factor. You would cut perfect dovetails with the gent saw. You would compensate for the chisel bevels. You would dig out the dedicated shooting plane and work through the ergonomics. To me, a good gent saw is a delight to use. I don’t use a mortise chisel (don’t own one) because there is no joy in doing that task - for me. I can’t make the unseen joint better and it brings me no happiness. On the other hand, I draft and draw by hand as opposed to CAD. Slower, yes. Better, yes. And the joy factor is through the roof!
I like your other comments about saws and chisels and block planes. Although my Stanley block has a blade adjustment so it is easy to set.
I really appreciate these instructional videos. I agree with most of what you said. I have been doing wood working for only a few years as a hobby. So not a ton of hours in the craft. I have heard many recommendations that I can't wrap my head around the logic. You just explained it for me. Instinctively I disagreed with some tool suggestions and you just told me why they "felt" wrong. Thank you.
Glad to help. Thanks for commenting
I haven’t made any of these purchases in my time. I am a hybrid woodworker as I use what will do the job the quickest and sometime hand tools are just faster. But you taught me something today. I never thought of using a block of wood to guide a mortise chisel. I use them as they are just faster if I am only doing 1 or 2.
I started working with my hands and with tool 65 years ago. I've worked a huge variety of jobs. Your advice is always very good and sound. Thank you.
You started with your hands!
Thanks for the comment and for watching the video
Great video as always! The practical advice is always welcomed because the quality of your work backs up your opinions! Thank you for sharing! Take care👍🏻
My pleasure!
All great points, & great stuff as always, Rob. I think the 4 1/2 and 5 1/2 sizes are just less accessible to people who don't want to spend $250+ new or hunt down a decent price on a good vintage tool. Prewar fixer-uppers in the 3 - 5 size range grow on trees for like $30, and there are lots of resources for learning to get them cleaned up and running. I totally agree, though, the half numbers are usually nicer to use overall.
I awlays recommend cry once and get the best tool you can afford
@@RobCosmanWoodworking for me this was a new nr. 5 (60euro) from india.... it works well and came square... id love to know how nice a 350 euro 5,5 is but thats how much i was able to spend on my whole equipment. impossible to invest this in only one tool. also a japanese multi purpose saw works well for me as long as i stay relaxed... hard times ...maybe i can affpd a wr 5,5 if i sell all boxes i make instead of giving them away for chrismas...
The half sizes may not be as common as the usual sizes but they are not rare. I just checked and here in the UK on Ebay today there are 69 Stanley Bailey and Record no 4 1/2. Good condition ones seem to be £35-£40 (less than $50). I almost bought one and I really don't need another plane!
Thanks for your video! It is also my opinion to get started with proper tools! It gives you a better understanding of process and avoids making mistakes.
Great video rob
Thanks Rob , very useful video
Thanks for watching
Great video. 👏👏
Well done Rob - one of your better videos!
I always enjoy your presentation even when, as in this one, I disagree with you on a few points ( I love me my Veritas low-angle jack! LOL!) Your presentations are always clear and well thought out and right about 95% of the time.
Excellent info and I agree with everything you pointed out. Like you I have tools that I don't use. If not a collector piece, they need to go because I just don't have the space and they will just corrode. Thanks!
I have quite a few planes most of which are quite old and I inherited them from several generations of carpenters in the family. My favorite "go to" plane is a Sergeant VBM which is wide blade and only slightly shorter than a 5 1/2. Totally independent of each other you and I came to basically the same plane as the best.
Hi Rob, bought a Jack plane mainly on price (Stanley Sweetheart) and enjoy using it. Added a 51/2 from Busy Bee and switch back and forth. However as you say, sharpness is key to good planing.
Love the video I learnt a lot in this video
Great tips thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching
Thank you for a interesting and helpful video
you bet
I love you work. The explanations you offer for the reasons of your dislikes of the tools are all very intelligent & useful. BTW you look fabulous for a 700 year old!
Made sense to me Rob. Some of the things you mentioned I probably would have grumbled a bit over but not really put much thought to why I was peeved. The marking gauge; I've recently bought a wheeled type similar to yours after years of shredding lines in timber with the old pin type. The pin gauge is actually a nice piece of timber and brass, but the darn thing bit me every time I used it. I came across it to day and it had a go at me. I dont want to bin it, so I think I may mount it on the shed wall. Sort of a historical artifact. I'll file those pins first!
Good choice
Alot of good hard be information. New subscriber. Looking forward to more insight. Thank you.
Brilliant.
I have one of the two planes my grandfather used. I have a smoothing plane he made shortly after he emigrated to the US in 1902. The other is maybe a 3 size plane he acquired in the early 20s.
Всегда с большим вниманием слушаю мастера, много полезной информации. Спасибо, здоровья и благополучия.
Thanks
I love opinions. Especially those from experienced folks.
I wish I could say that about everyone !!!!
I haven't popped in for a while. I didn't recognise you with the long hair at first. Then I heard then sense you spoke and realised, "yeah, this is the guy I remember". 😄 Great recommendations.
Wonderful information I like words of wisdom from a pro, not wishy washy we’re they argue both sides and leave you still undecided
tell you camera man to hold the camera steady when they are sipping their beer.
I do nearly everything with an old Record n. 7, which actually has a flat base. But I use an A2 iron from Hock, which I sharpen with Shapton stones (8000 for the final bevel) and a Veritas honing guide to keep the angle constant. For incredibly fine finishing I use a Veritas block plabe with a PM-V11 blade, which has the big advantage that the back of the blade is incredibly flat. By careful setting up and decreasing the opening to a hair width, its possible to plane against the grain with it tearing out. The extra weight and solidity of the blade and plane make it definitely worth the expense.
i wonder if i agree with all of your points so wholeheartedly because i learned so much of what i know about hand tools from you. i guess i should be thanking you for shaping my woodworking preferences and opinions as well as teaching my how to do handtool woodworking the correct way. love the channel, love your saws (have 3 so far) and all of the other tools i have from your store. i have the whole set of ibc bench and mortise chisels and i cannot tell you how much better they are than any other i own.
Great to hear!
great advice Rob
Thanks for watching
My main working planes are a Stanley number 5+1/2 with a Veritas PMV11 blade and a Lie Nilsen low angle jack - they definitely both stay sharp and work very well