LeBron James is No. 2 on NBA's all-time scoring list, revives GOAT debate | NBA | FIRST THINGS FIRST
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- čas přidán 20. 03. 2022
- LeBron James is now second on the NBA's all-time scoring list, overtaking Karl Malone with an uncontested lay-up against the Washington Wizards on Saturday night. With only Kareem Abdul-Jabbar ahead of him, Nick Wright asks Chris Broussard whether LeBron's move up in the list prompts him to change his stance on Michael Jordan being the greatest of all time over LeBron. Watch as Broussard explains why it absolutely does not.
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Nick Wright, Chris Broussard, Kevin Wildes, and Jenna Wolfe team up on First Things First, a discussion and opinion-based studio program that covers all the headlines weekdays on FS1.
LeBron James is No. 2 on NBA's all-time scoring list, revives GOAT debate | NBA | FIRST THINGS FIRST
• LeBron James is No. 2 ...
First Things First
/ firstthingsfirst - Sport
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Why?
No
Nick ... Jordan is what Trump is to the far right. You can't sway MJ' supporters no matter how hard you try.
@@aerofpv2109 Absolutely right.
- LBJ did it without Stockton nor Magic to assist him nor Kareem or Malone to finish the assist for him.
- Without a Phil Jackson or a Pat Riley.
- Lead the league in assists at 37, leads the league in scoring at 38… Conclusion: the man could have done it every year if wanted to but he valued team play as the way to win!!
- Took how many different teams to the finals?
* Not saying he’s better than MJ but can we at least acknowledge all of this?!
Nick: "I didn't think Lebron could have beaten the KD Warriors"
Me: I am old enough to remember you picking the Cavs in 2017, to win in 5 games
😂😂😂😂
Ding Ding
😂😂😂😂😂!!!!
Facts both times too..lol. Man had a whole segment bashing Steph and KD as choke artist
Don Demarco
Every Monday LeBron revives the GOAT Debate. It's no debate if you're a LeBron fan you say LeBron I you're a Jordan fan you say MJ. Just enjoy the highlights
Not necessarily, you can like one more than the other but also think they arnt the better player
Mj is OBJECTIVELY the goat
@@invalidusername201 LEBRON IS OBJECCTIVELY THE GOAT !!!!!!!!!!
@@ingislakur you need to shut up, objectively!
I don’t see why men argue over other men
The "there you go" at the end did it for me. Lol.
Broussard's take was outstanding.
It was like a mic drop at the end 🙌🏾
The Broussard take was very biased and didn't make any sense. Goat consist of individual dominance, not the best Bulls team arguably ever created playing against trash teams in the finals lol Jordan never faced a Golden State, Spurs team, OKC, or Mavericks team the media needs to stop this favoritism
@@shawndun2119 individual dominance? Like MVP'S, finals MVP's, scoring titles, DPOY, steals leaders, all NBA defensive? Stop it kid, Broussard speaking facts and you just can't accept it 😂
@@shawndun2119
And Lebron never faced any COMPETITION MJ faced in his East through the road to the finals so 🤓🤡
Nick Wright same guy who bashed KD and Steph as choke artists in 2016.. Also said Cavs would win in 5 games.. Also picked Cavs next season without Kyrie saying Cavs had the better offense
yes.. but one will show up - GSW was a deep team in 2017. they had so many people who could break any team.. Curry totally demolished the Rockets when it mattered even though KD was kind of meh in that series. there could be nobody guarding curry.. or KD individually.. and they had this guy called Klay..
@@smanix it was steph who actually didn’t play to well in like 2 games straight vs the rockets then he started playing better and they started winning. Of course they would need curry to play well because the rockets were a really good team that year
Steph is a choke artist and kd getting knocked out the playoffs earl
Chris didn't even mention the scoring titles, Defensive Player of the years, steals titles and NBA All defense, and still won two argument
It was on the graphic
lets think about this.. now-a-days Scoring titles can be by anybody as there are many bigs/forwards/scorers scoring, LBJ was denied of his defensive player title.
He literally did
jordan also took more shots then anyone else
@@zoomdoof6107 false stat. He is not first in all-time field-goal attempts nor is he number 1 in field-goal attempts per game and his splits are good enough to tell you that he wasn’t a ball hog that stope shots from his teams which confiscated his team from succeeding
Broussard killed nick at the end
That sequence was fire
It definitely wasn’t because Knick asked about did Jordan ever had a season /peak like that 27 game winning streak , mvp should have won defensive player of the year ,finals mvp , Broussard went back to Jordan’s career in winning championships to combat 1 season he ddnt answer the question .
@@animeniacs7768 thet where talking ab peaks so nick deflected the question by reducing it down to one year, thats not what prime means
@@joshuae4639 They didn't say prime though. They said peak. If talking about prime, some say Bron is still in his prime.
@@joshuae4639 what nick was saying that it was lebrons peak in his opinion ,that year and Jordan never came close to that .
MJ - Most awards in NBA history (22), most all-defensive 1st teams in NBA history (9), most scoring titles in NBA history (10), most consecutive scoring titles in NBA history (7), most finals MVP awards in NBA history (6), highest scoring average in the regular season (30.12ppg) and playoffs (33.4ppg) in NBA history, highest scoring average by a Defensive Player of the Year in NBA history (35.0ppg 1988), most 200 steal + 100 block seasons in NBA history (2), highest PER (Player Efficiency Rating) in NBA history (27.91), highest Game Score in NBA history (64.60) and the only player in NBA history with multiple entries in the Top 10, highest Win Shares per 48 in the regular season (0.2505) and playoffs (0.2553) in NBA history, faced (9) and eliminated (7) the most 60+ win teams in NBA history, highest scoring playoff game in NBA history (63), most times scoring 50 points back-to-back in the playoffs in NBA history (2), most times winning all three MVP awards (regular season, all-star game, finals) in the same season in NBA history (2), most times claiming the scoring and steals titles in the same season in NBA history (3), highest scoring average in a finals series in NBA history (41.0ppg), most steals in a finals series in NBA history (14, in just a five game series 1991), only player in NBA history to shoot above 38% from 3pt line in three separate finals series in NBA history; also set the record for 3pt field goals in a half (6) and points in a half (35) in the same game in 1992, most game-winning buzzer beaters in NBA history (9), highest go-ahead/game-winning field goal percentage in NBA history (28-for-56, 9-for-18 in the playoffs, 4-for-8 in the finals and a perfect 3-for-3 when facing elimination), most times leading the league in scoring while also winning the championship in NBA history (6, and only two other players have done it one time each), most consecutive field goals made in a finals game in NBA history (13, 1991), most consecutively games played scoring above double-figures in NBA history (1,041), most 50+ point playoff games in NBA history (8), only player in NBA history to never score under 15 points in any playoff appearance or under 20 points in any finals appearance, only player in NBA history to score over 40 points above the age of 40 (and he did it twice), most playoff records set by one player in NBA history (42), only player in NBA history to average above 30 points 6 rebounds and 6 assists during an entire championship playoff run in NBA history (and he did it five times), only player in NBA history to be named MVP, Defensive Player of the Year, and win the scoring title in the same season, highest percentage of first-place MVP votes in NBA history (531 giving him 36.0%), I mean it's just laughable to compare anyone to Michael Jordan. Find a new topic fellas!
He didn’t love the game as much as LeBron he was forced to retire the second time bc he got caught gambling lol made a deal with the commissioner so it wouldn’t go public 🤣
@@taiclips didn't love the game as much as lebron and that explains why he came out of retirement multiple times... you guys get more and more delusional every year. And, if you had any ounce of basketball knowledge you'd know that he retired the 2nd time because Krause was dismantling the team and no one wants to go through a rebuild at 35 years old, especially MJ who was also coming off his 2nd three-peat which LeBron hasn't even done once.
That "most Finals series shooting 38% from 3" stat isn't accurate anymore lol
Didn’t wilt average 50 for a season ?
Mic drop
Chris kills nick everytime 😂
To Nick, a 27 game winning streak is more impressive than 72-10 and 4-6 in the finals is more impressive than 6-0. You can’t even reason with him at this point.
Yeah and Jordan fans act like not reaching the finals (for him 9/15 years) is better than reaching the finals and losing which is also absurd. Many of lebrons final losses were against a far superior team because he dragged his team to the finals
@@derekdegraaff831 OMG....reason exists on the internet. Lol.
You are so right. It truly bizarre that people view not making it to the finals as better than making it and losing.
@@stupidrules1000 it’s a difference between losing and just getting embarrassed he got embarrassed in 4 finals swept twice meltdown in 2011 and the largest loss margin in finals history
@@derekdegraaff831 no one counts the wizards years he was retired for 3 years at that point and came back at the age of 40 donating his salary to 9/11 victims charities helping keep moral and interest in the NBA during that time. Let's not forget who he lost to in those early years besides his rookie year losing to Milwaukee he was road blocked by established dynasties in the Celtics and pistons for 5 years straight. Lebron in his 5th or 6th season lost to Dirk in a head to head only all star on the team and then on his Miami super stacked team lost to Dirk again while Dirk was still the only all star on his own team. I mean then he loses to the same team he beat the year before in the spurs which ended the Miami super team years because lebron asked for a specific first round pick and promptly abandoned Miami. So the differences in their stories is exactly why we don't just take stats and finals records into consideration. Lebron took lumps early too no one cares about losing early. It's the fact his team eventually became eastern conference champions with the 5th highest ranked defense in 2007 but because they lost in the finals that year then Dirk then a new Boston super team forms and all of a sudden he doesn't have ANY help according to his story. Lebron's stats are amazing but Westbrook showed us how much triple doubles don't make u automatically better then the competition. The fact he just passed Karl Malone as #2 all time shows u scoring alot of points over a long career doesn't raise u up in the debate. Is Karl in anybody's top 20? All time great but all those points didn't place him on anyone's top 10 list and he outscored everyone in history besides Kareem. The narrative MJ had to learn to how to be best ever and once he did he went undefeated 6-0 in the finals is a far greater l story then lebron made the finals but didn't have enough help SIX TIMES? Hes been the underdog sure in 8 of those 10 finals appearances but even a year he was favored to win he lost to dirk so we have to pretend that if he had the better teammates every time and was supposed to win by odds he would've won more? He's 50% winning when favored and all it might take to beat a lebron super team is a single European all star...
@Nicholas McCune
You can count the wizard year and still Mj have the all time average points per game crown in nba history ... please ...
Did you know that during MJs Peak his team never lost 3 games in a row? From 91 to 98
Key word there is TEAM. Jordan was playing on the GREATEST team the sport has ever seen.
@@blankspace4358 but the peak discontinued when he left and the Bulls lost 3-games in a row within that span when Jordan was out. When he came back the streak continued.
Expansion era.. Against plumbers and mailmen
@@kwadwohilton2126 plumbers like Shaq, Olajuwon, Duncan, KG, Dirk, Kobe, Malone, Stockton, Hill, Nash, Allen, Pierce, Barkley, Iverson, Robinson, Payton, Kidd
You do know they met Jordan right?
@@BaXiStA Bronsexuals don't have no memories
Carmelo Anthony, Rey Allen, and Vince Carter each have more cumulative points than Larry Bird and Magic Johnson. That'll tell you how insignificant cumulative stats is in assessing greatness.
They are all better scorers than magic bird has a higher ppg than all those players that’s y he’s a better scorer than them not rocket science guys
Carmelo Anthony for a decade + was default buckets, best scorer of a generation. Ray Allen was maybe the second best 2 guard of his generation (after Kobe over Tracy/AI) and became a quintessential 3nD guy. They aren't Magic or Bird but they are both in the top 25 the last 25 years for a reason. The only thing it says is they had better longevity, which is not nothing.
Yea the prob is lebron has the stats and the chips n the mvp lol
Carmelo is not a better player than Magic but he s been a better SCORER than Magic
@@Apouchy7 but not more than MJ…that’s the point
Broussard with the heavy artillery at the end! I'll say this about Jordan as food for thought. He was the Best. Player on the court. Every. Single. Night.
Not every single night....
You mind telling me what Jordan’s record is against Magic, Larry Bird, and Isaiah Thomas?
@@felipe5955 well against Larry bird...I know his record is like 23-40 and against thomas...it's probably a worse record. Jordan got beat up by old pistons and Knicks. Against Magic...I am not sure.
@@felipe5955 it still doesn’t change the fact the jordan never had a meltdown but Lebron did
@@bjcarter5944 Lebrons finals competition > Jordans
Wildes' huge smile when Broussard was rattling off the facts😁🤣
Man Nick really doesn't realize how bad it was for Lebrons legacy to lose to Dirk in the finals like he did.
As a lebron fan. I totally agree. I hate that that specific event happened over everything else. If Bron could go back in time to any point of his career. He needs not to loose that series. The goat debate litterly lives and dies with that series.
@@jongee7034 I keep tryna tell ppl this lol That is the main reason he literally cannot be the GOAT to me.
Same to never made playoffs in the 80´s to Jordan and being kicked by Isaiah Thomas two times, he won because of Phil Jackson and Pippen with Rodman and Grant all HOF
You have to be mentally challenged to think that, the same team that LeBron lost to swept a full healthy Kobe Bryant team will hurt his legacy
@Martin Fal. Grant is not a Hall of Famer. I wish you Lebron fans would stop creating fictional narratives. Jordan also won three championships without Dennis Rodman and Rodman was a great rebounder and defensive player, but he was also an offensive liability.
Nick needs to keep a dead debate going for his career he's trying to be skip Bayless
Well skip is way more intelligent than nick... You just dont like skip because he trash bron with FACTS...
Broussard went IN at the end there lol jeeeeez! I think it's way closer than either side likes to admit, but I always go back to losing to a far inferior Mavs team when LeBron left for Miami and that usually breaks the tie for me. Just never saw Jordan choke like that.
Jordan never also got blown out by a record margin in the finals and never been swept twice in the finals
@@chicityjay great point. I don't like how much of that gets swept under the rug when talking about LeBron. Always bothered me
@@adammarcon7598 as does myself also but the media will bring up everyone else failures and harp on it to not put them in the top players of all time
Inderior mavs team that beat kds okc team and swept kobes lakers sound pretty inferior to me
@@bmill8780 you're not serious? That's considered one of the most embarrassing defeats of Kobe's career and that Mavs team was led by Dirk and then an ancient Jason Kidd and Terry. If you're gonna claim that LeBron, D Wade and Bosch were justified in losing, then this is a hopeless conversation. Especially if you want to be considered the best ever, gotta do better than listing excuses for why you lost. You need to WIN.
I’m going to invent a player. This player, by the end of his career is going to have:
2 NBA Championships
2 Finals MVPs
1 NBA MVP
9 Scoring Titles
1 NBA DPOY
3 All Defensive 1st Teams
Is this one of the best players of all time? Definitely a Hall of Famer if you had this resume. That’s the difference between Lebron and Jordan. Everyone says it’s close but it’s not. It’s a whole Hall of Fame career better.
-Kevin Wildes
Seeing this displayed like this, he's right 😫
👏 👏 👏 Beautiful!
Yup! No doubt at all.
Hmm not bad tbh but can also pull up same crazy stats for Bron 😤
Lol y’all are so slow and are sheep
Brou jus Annihilated Nick at the end
9:02 WTF is Nick talking about?
MJ won MVP and DPOY IN THE SAME YEAR! HE averaged 37 points FOR A WHOLE SEASON!
He actively ignored that screen Broussard put up that clearly showed MJ had more individual accomplishments over a shorter time. He also brought a 27 win streak and ignored the fact MJ HAD the record for MOST wins ever by a championship team. In a year he won FINALS and Season MVP.
I could literally see the pain in Nicks face as his heart got 💔😂
This man looked at everything Jordan did and asked “how many times did Jordan lead in assist in the playoffs”....wtf does that have to do with winning ?!?!?
And rebounds 😂
It's rather foolish to make the standard, someone who reached the finals only 6 times yet played 15 seasons.
I mean Jordan was only asked to score and defend. Nothing else. Bron had to do everything for his teams to have a chance of winning.
If winning is all that matters
I’ll pick Bill Russell
11 rings in 12 years
That’s his peak
Jordan has basically half of that
@@elioenaiporto6881 “I mean Jordan was only asked to score and defend.”
Scoring and defending are *literally* the two most important things a player can do in a basketball game. An assist isn’t an assist unless it leads to a score. Rebounding can be either a form of defense in that it keeps the ball from the opposition, or of offense when it gives your team extra possessions that will hopefully lead to-you guessed it-more buckets. Even if the only two things Jordan ever did were score and defend at elite levels (and, to be clear, they weren’t), then he did the two things that every other act taken in a basketball game is meant to facilitate.
However, there’s also the fact that he averaged 31 points and 11 assists (and 6 rebounds) per game in his first-ever Finals series. He averaged better than 6 assists in four of six Finals appearances, and better than 6 rebounds in three of them (and better than 5 in four Finals). He’s 19th all time in career triple doubles with 28 (well behind Lebron’s 104, but the fact that he’s anywhere inside the top 20 all-time indicates that he did a lot more than *just* scoring and defending).
All that being said, you can’t blame the Bulls for making scoring and defending Jordan’s primary responsibilities since that led to 10 scoring titles, 9 first-team all defense selections, a DPOY, and the highest career PPG average in league history (to go along with the 6 chips, 6 FMVP’s, and 5 MVP’s). Maybe letting a guy focus on the two things he’s best at (and the two things a basketball team MUST do to win at a high level) isn’t such a bad idea 🤷🏾♂️. (By the way: Jordan averaged 30, 6, and 5 for his career versus Lebron’s 27, 7, and 7. If someone looks at that and decides that Lebron is way more well-rounded than Jordan was on a per-game basis, then I don’t know what to do other than agree to disagree).
Chris Broussard has been wiping the floor with Nick Wright lately when it comes to MJ vs LeBron 😂
Nick’s face when hearing the facts 😂
What fact ?
Facts? Where?
It was a slanted argument Chris tried it though
@@KairoNoronha What he placed on the screen. You seen it. He did more in 13 years than LEBRON did in 18🤷🏽♀️
@@cylvaniaallen4498 That graphic? I mean depending on what accolades you choose either one of them could have a graphic that makes the other look weaker lol. For me LeBron is most complete basketball player ever and that is why he's the goat.
Lerbon will never be considered the GOAT. It's a wrap.
Karl Malone was in the GOAT debate?
nope cause he has 0 rings, 0 FMVPs and only 2 MVPs
That bubble 🫧 ring is always gonna feel funny to me lol almost like it shouldn’t even be mentioned.
Foreal 😅😅😅😅
Lebron's "super team" compared to MJs "non super team" ('11-'14; '91-'93)
D wade: 20.3ppg (53% TS)
4.3 apg, 5.2 rpg
Pippen: 20.3ppg (53% TS)
6.1 apg, 8.2 rpg
Bosh: 14.9ppg (55% TS)
1.1apg, 7.3rpg
Grant: 11.7ppg (59% TS)
2.6apg, 8.4rpg
This doesnt even take defense into account
Or the competition's #2 and #3 players (they scored less in MJ's era than this era). LeBron was in finals where Westbrook, Harden were #2 and #3 and where the Spurs had 4 HOF not to mention teams like the Warriors, Celtics, etc.
At least grant and pippen (via draft day trade) were drafted by the bulls
Bosh and wade were already superstars when they joined Miami so basically Lebron already knew what they could bring plus d wade already had a ring with shaq in ‘06
Jordan on the other hand molded pippen and grant
If Jordan teamed up with Drexler and Barkley, that would be a superteam but no, he stuck with the players that their team drafted
Nice facts. Unfortunately most people are dumb so the point you’re really trying to make will not be made. Lol good luck
Nice facts. Unfortunately most people are dumb so the point you’re really trying to make will not be made. Lol good luck
True, but bosh was a 24 a game scorer before lebron and in the HOF. Grant never averaged more than 14 after playing with Jordan. Pippen never averaged more than 22 while Prime Wade was 25-30 a night.
Put the stats aside, I’ve never seen a championship level celebration before the season even started because you signed average players. Even if you don’t think it was a super team, they sure did celebrate like they had won several championships before even practicing together.
@@zachg3069 Thank you for adding context
Can someone brief Chris Broussard on the definition of objectivity?
It's not just Chris tho. Look at all these media people.
@@im_an_alien196 agreed! They need to understand data analytics and what an analysis is. They just pick what comes from the gut
Just watch a video on CZcams called 100 Jordan Feats That LeBron Will Never Pass
@@ArtisanWindchimes You could easily make a video in LBJ's favor too. It's all about what your criteria of the GOAT is
@@ArtisanWindchimes couldnt resist to close till two, if your hitting numbers are jordan did 10 triple doubles in 11 games and scored 30+ with %50 fg then you already lost me there.
Nick: "Instead of comparing accolades we have used for the past 40 years let's talk about who led the playoffs in rebounding."
Lol
Haha yep, my favorite is when he brought up assists and rebounds but clearly avoided points. Hey Nick, who averages the most points in Playoffs history? Who scored the most points in an NBA Playoff game? Who averages the most points in Finals history? Who averaged the most points in an NBA Finals series? Heck, since you want to bring up assists, who averaged the most assists in a Finals series, Lebron or Jordan? Take a wild guess buddy.....
Where is the list for rebounds and assists, or that isn't an NBA record? Pathetic!!
@@kwadwohilton2126 PaThEtIc 🤪
Lebron has never had 6 straight seasons where he terrorized the league AND won championships... his peak is clearly not as high. TF is Nick talking about?? lol
you must have missed basketball from 2012 to 2020
@@steelers0004 Lebron won 6 straight rings 2012-2020??
Jordan played one man teams in an expansion era with the best coach (who proved himself without Jordan) a top team. Before that he was just an overrated ballhog. The bulls were 2 games shy without Jordan year after he retired. How many coaches you know lose their best scorer and almost made the finals? Exactly, he benefited from positive circumstances, but he’s not better than lebron
@@federalfreemoneylackofrese9937 what did that bulls team do the year after run before they start begging MJ to come back. People love talking about that one season but fairy tale runs happen all the time look at the hawks right now. It's not about what you do one time but if you can do it again. That 94-95 bulls was about to be out the playoffs if MJ didn't return. They had a 34-31 record before he returned and finished with a 47- 35 record when he returned.
@@DRob46268 winning a title is a team accomplishment so if you want to say the bulls terrorized the league then sure. Not to mention, you said 6 straight seasons meaning you apparently forgot about jordans first retirement lol. Maybe do some research before pretending to know basketball kid lol
Lebron had 11 healthy seasons with the cavs - 1 ring
MJ had 11 healthy seasons with the bulls - 6 rings
Thats the beauty of playing for a great, smart franchise compared to playing for a terrible franchise.
@@crazytrain111 the bulls was a terrible organization before Jordan got there 😂
@@SB1_NETWORK That doesn’t matter. They started making great moves in the late 80s and early 90s. Nearly every move they made ended up working out. And Pippen is just dumb luck. Quite literally the PERFECT side kick for MJ, just a match made in Heaven, a guy who’s content being a sidekick, knows his role and plays it to perfection. Lebron never had that luxury.
Jordan actually had help with the bulls conpared to lebrons team of nobody's.that bulls team went to the playoffs without him.
lol did you really just try and say the cavs were as good as the bulls? Someone clearly doesn't watch basketball
Hey Nick fun fact for you buddy since you love so much bringing up stats and how LeBron is greater than Jordan.
MJ has still 69 more offensive rebounds than LeBron despite playing 291 games less, despite being shorter, despite playing in an era where the lane was clogged by guys like Robinson, Ewing, shaq, divac, manute, mourning etc. And despite the fact he played in an era where every player had a role to play. It wasn't like today where the game is free flowing, absolutely positionless where players just cross the half court and have green light to shoot 3s.
We should stop this nonsense. MJ was better in almost every facet of the game top to bottom.
You name it. Free throws, midrange game, post up game, Footwork, finishing at the rim with either hand, aerial moves, offensive arsenal, defensive skills. Oh gosh there's just no comparison. I'd give LeBron the edge in assists, vision, probably long 3s and versatility since he can guard 1-4 and Michael could effectively guard 1-3.
But that's basically it.
Jordan easily wins the eye test. It's like you watch the game and you know
There was literally nothing anybody could do to stop him and it was such beautiful and elegant at the same time.
Jordan was simply a superior player, more skilled and more gifted mentality than LeBron and ultimately achieved much more in much less time.
And to be honest I can understand Nick being such a big fan of LeBron and defend his point of view but I can't stand LeBron being so f-ing cocky to even consider himself better than Jordan. He should know better.
So you're saying that you're 50 years old. Got it.
My man came with the smoke
Watching Nick talk about LeBron is like watching someone on the subway explain to everyone else Q-anon 🤦♀️
This flew under the radar for some reason. But who remembers when Nick Wright was so bothered that Iggy won finals mvp over Lebron by a 7-4 vote edge. He went on this show and lied by saying there was a report that the real voting was actually 4 votes iggy, 4 votes lebron and 3 votes steph. According to Nick, the voters didn't want to give it to Lebron so the 3 steph voters changed their votes to iggy. Once the nba exposed him and said that was false, Nick did apologize. That's how much this dude loves Lebron. And to this day, no one can find the "report"
Show proof where the nba said he was lying, because I’ve never seen or heard the league say he was lying about that…. The nba is a multi-billion dollar organization, with a image and reputation to uphold, so of course they’re going to lie about some things and hide some things from the public eye
@@djedwards1996 you can look it up. What proof is there of nick being right?
@@im_an_alien196 Telling someone to look it up isn’t providing evidence
@@djedwards1996 it’s true. I remember the NBA said he lied. As far as proof you have to find that yourself. I just remember when it happened
@@djedwards1996
The voters of the FVMP came out with statements and even videos of it as Twitter confirmed as well and Nick had to get back and apologise with his tail between his legs.
Like stop being a dumb BronSexuals and get back to REALITY!
Accolades are more impressive than Stats.
The 5 most important accolades are Rings,Finals Mvp,MVP’s,Scoring Titles and Dpoy. Is that not the Criteria for Goat????
no because its biased people voting on it and how did gasol win dpoy when he wasnt even defensive first team? also if you take more shots then anyone ever your going to have more scoring titles then anyone ever
Most of the accolades in the NBA are popularity contests...
It’s a combination of both. Mvps and dpoy are terribly flawed
the goat of soccer, Lionel Messi has no World Cup trophy aka zero chip, yet he's the goat...is not always about titles but individual skillset
@@jaysandi88 Finals Mvp,scoring title,dpoy, rings are performance based
Nick Wright is on the verge of tears part 3 ahhahhahaha
As far as debates go, Nick lost that one.
6:08 Kareem has 2 Finals MVPs, Michael Jordan has 6 Finals MVPs. LeBron has 4 Finals MVPs, Michael Jordan has 6 Finals MVPs. LeBron James and the Lakers are fighting for the 9th seed on the Western Conference. Michael Jordan is on a gulf course playing golf with Tony Romo….TMZ Sports uploaded the video 3 days ago.
Someone tell Nick Wrong that Lebron absolutely went to LA to be a movie star! Since he’s been there, what has he really done? In 4 seasons, he won a bubble ring thanks to a 4 month layoff and a tournament nobody wanted to play in. He didn’t make the playoffs one season. Played in the play-in just to get bounced in the first round. And now he’s fighting for a play-in spot that he may not make!
all of this isn’t one mans fault😂😂😂
Lebron didn’t wanna play in it either yet they won don’t act like it was easy for them and hard for everyone else the Lakers lost Kobe that year you haters are weird
somebody explain to me Wildes' take.. cuz I didn't understand it.
ONCE HE GOT TO THE TOP AND WON THE CHAMPIONSHIP..HE DIDN'T TURN OFF UNTIL HE DECIDED TO...
THE TIME HE FIRST RETIRED..
IS THE GAP BETWEEN THE TWO THREE-PEATS..
SO BASICALLY ONCE HE GOT TO THE TOP..
HE DID EVERYTHING TO STAY THERE.. WINNING EVERYTHING.. REGULAR AND PLAYOFFS ... IT WAS A MUST FOR HIS TEAM AND THEY DID IT... WITH HIS LEADERSHIP AND EXAMPLE OF HOW TO GET IT ALL..
FAILURE WAS NOT AN OPTION...
HOPE THAT HELPS
The point on consistency vs peaks, is very good and goes beyond basketball. Great point!
Nick Wright went to rebounds?
I just watched a video where Wilt Chamberlain's only consistent criticism of Kareem Abdul Jabbar is he didn't rebound enough!!
I guess Nick Wright watched that video too, lol..
Because that argument is ridiculous
He's acting like MJ wasn't a shooting guard and 2-3 inches shorter than Lebron lol. Even then if you look at offensive rebounds for their careers Jordan averages more, making him the better rebounder considering the fact that offensive rebounds are harder to get. MJ has 10 seasons with 100+ offensive rebounds, Lebron only has 4.
If you’re only playing half the court, does it matter that you put up big numbers?
😆😆
Idgaf what anyone says 2018 LeBron the greatest player I’ve ever seen
im just here from the IG post and i see even with more time Nick Wright still gets clobbered in this debate lmao
I love how Nick always says everyone else considers MJ the Goat because he’s their “childhood hero,” when he’s the biggest LeBron Stan on the planet.
Nick Wright trying to convince people that Lebron is better than MJ is like him saying a boyscout is better than a navy seal.
It would be nice to gather all of the sports personalities in like a forum and have an ultimate debate discussion kind of like the Presidential debate in which you have a moderator and everyone can debate this topic. I want to see the TNT cast, First Take cast, Colin Cowherd, the Undisputed cast, and even retired players as well. I want to see Skip debate Barkley or Stephen A debate Nick Wright and Shaq debate Kendrick Perkins. lol I think would be pretty coo, get in some interaction but I know this would never happen but it could.
Nick Really believes this stuff!! He gotta be doing this for shock value!! Talk about overlooking a GOAT players accomplishments!! What is he SMOKIN'!!?????
I’m tired of people talking bout how lebron lost to the warriors like they didn’t have kd.
I thought Bron was the goat he should have beaten KD then 😂😂
That just proves lebron isnt the goat
Would Jordan have beaten them answer dat
@@santannak5397 💯% without a doubt
@Jessie Slaughter. Like the Cavs didn't have Lebron. Like the Cavs didn't have Kyrie. Like the Cavs didn't have K. Love. Those teams were evenly matched and I have always said that. Starting 5 vs Starting 5 is KD, Steph, Draymond, Iggy and Klay vs Lebron, Kyrie, Thompson, Love and I believe Jefferson. Look up their numbers 5 vs 5. It's even Steven 1-5. Stop with the infinite excuses.
Lebron fans LOVE EFFECIENCY right so who was MORE EFFICIENT at winning championship
MJ 6 titles in 15 years
Lebron 4 titles in 19 years 🤷🏾♂️
I mean, MJ had 6 titles in 7 years. Basically 6 in 6.
So what happened to MJ in the other decade of his career? He basically went to 6 finals in 7 years. What about the other decade?
@@crazytrain111 What about LeBron in the 2000s? He didn't win nothing that decade either 🤷🏾♂️
MJ had a team and coaching staff. It wasn't Jordan winning those finals. It was the team. Even Steve Kerr has credit in winning at least one of the finals. If certain things didn't go Jordan's way during that time then he wouldn't have won those rings.
@@Robert-sx9mm 😂🤣😂 Steve Kerr out her AVERAGING like 4 points in the finals but ok 🤦🏾♂️
Crickets after nick asked that question the pause before wilds answer was telling
All paths have to lead to winning!!! It is a game at the end of the day. If you did more than me in less time, how could I say I am better?? That’s simple math. This is a ridiculous debate. 🤦🏽♂️
Nick: PROVE to me Jordan had a better season than 2012-2013 LeBron
At least 2 seasons from Jordan immediately come to mind but I'm sure there were even more:
2012-2013 LeBron won MVP, finished 4th on scoring, was the runner-up for defensive player of the year and won the title.
in 1987-88, Jordan won MVP, the scoring title, AND defensive player of the year. he just didnt win the championship like LeBron did in 2013, but individually, that year was obviously unprecedented and as good if not better than any season LeBron ever played
another 2 peak seasons that rival each other
2011-2012 LeBron vs 1990-91 Jordan:
LeBron: MVP, 3rd in scoring, made the All-Defensive 1st Team, and won the title
Jordan: MVP, the scoring title again, also made the All-Defensive 1st team and won the title
as great as LeBron was, Jordan still did everything he did and more in 87-88 by winning the scoring title and DPOY, and in 90-91 by winning the scoring title again _and_ the championship. if he'd won the championship in 87-88, that wouldve been inarguably the greatest individual season of basketball by any player ever. so sorry nick, but even the numbers say Jordan's peak was higher than Bron's, and Bron is my favorite player of all time.
That didn’t prove anything lebron puts up more assist and causes more hockey assist lebron runs a offense while Jordan just scored in one Jordan never put his team on his back by himself he was always close in talent
Nick better go check Jordan's 87-88 season when Jordan won MVP, All-Star MVP, Dunk contest, steals leader, DPOY, all NBA defensive 1st team and scoring title in one season and MJ was 24 yrs old...No shade to the legend Lebron but what season has Lebron EVER had like that?...What is Nick talking about? He better do some homework
You forgot a couple stats. That year he also accumulated 200 steals and 100 blocks and averaged 35 PPG on 54 percent shooting. The only award he didn't win was Finals MVP. That is one of, if not THE, greatest season in NBA history.
@@martyg2333 You're further making the point...Thank you...Nick needs to check his stats and facts...MJ was a monster...mind you he was a guard
I wish they didn’t cut the clip after Broussard’s mic drop. Really wanted to see Nick’s face/reaction after that.
I agree with Nick but I also completely agree with wildes. This discussion will never end though
I love Wildes' point about consistent excellence not being appreciated in our society!
With that said, I still think Jordan is the greatest. Individually he dominated the second half of the 80s. He and his team dominated the 90s, with a quick blip on the radar by the Rockets when MJ retired briefly. Two separate 3 peats is plenty of consistent excellence.
Mj came back with 30 games left in the 1995 season. Lost to the magic in the conference finals but that gets swept under the rug
@@thedude7596 dude was playing baseball for two years then randomly came back. Of course he was gonna be rusty
KEYWORDS - He and his team
@@alexham28 naturally that helped MJ.. if he had continued to play -> the wear out on his body would be more significant and 6-0 might not have happened..
@@smanix nah bro you didn’t watch the media, it’s an individual game now apparently (sarcasm)
Nick: did Jordan ever have a 27 game winning streak?
Chris: Jordan won 72 games(something lebron team never did)
Nick: "hold on.. lebron was votes away from winning dpoy and mvp"
Oh well Jordan, hakeem and Giannis actually did it🤷🏽♂️
Its amazing how nick mention rings and Mbps when debating Kareem and Jordan but when debating LeBron James and Jordan he mentioned stats
This Debate is therapeutic!!!!
MJ is head and shoulders better than the rest . Well said Nick
9:02 WTF is Nick talking about?
MJ won MVP and DPOY IN THE SAME YEAR! HE averaged 37 points FOR A WHOLE SEASON!
He actively ignored that screen Broussard put up that clearly showed MJ had more individual accomplishments over a shorter time. He also brought up a 27 win streak and ignored the fact MJ has the record for MOST wins ever by a championship team. In a year he won FINALS and Season MVP.
@@old77733 Thats MJ 88 season LeBron James has never had a season like that.
Mj diddnt win the chip in88
@@old77733 most wins ever by a championship team.....that's the problem with Jordan fans. Yall keep moving the goal post. You tailor the stats/accomplishments that you use to make the case to Jordan's career. So, most championships becomes, most championships in x period of time, or undefeated in championships games. Best player becomes, best player for 3 trough 10 of a career. Most MVPs becomes, most mvps in a set period of time. Most dominant player becomes, player who scored the most points in the time period between 1986 and 1990, regardless of championships, playoff series wins, playoff games won, or even if your team had a winning season.
And also, can we all agree that if lebron (or really any of the goat candidates) shot 28 times a game, that they too would average 40 points a game. Jordan's 37 point season IS THE MOST overrated season of all time. You scored 37 points a game, but had a losing record and got swept in the first round.
@@craigbrown6872 Ok? But he did in 92...when he won 72 games + League MVP + Finals MVP.
Not sure what Nick's point is. Jordan only played 6 seasons in the NBA and won the chip every season then got bored. So what if Basketball involves, passing, rebounding and scoring, the GOAT can't have finals Ls and Robert Horry is 7-0.Robert Horry ≥ MJ/Lebron
He also got kicked out the 1st round 3 years in row
Bru ... mic dropped the ending.
🖐🏾🎤
Broussard destroys Nick every time w this debate
He really dosen't though 😂
@@ElevatorErnie1 there’s always gonna be that one bronsexual who thinks differently 😂
@@thetruth-gy2lc nah, there are good arguments for MJ, just think Broussard gets stuck on his "6-0" or "dominated the whole league". As if the league wasn't lacking in competition from all the expansion
@@ElevatorErnie1 I actually lived that era & MJ really did dominate like no other. Two 3-peats & the only time he didn’t win in 90’s was when he was retired. Also hand-checking allow. Today’s game is soft af. But you know the old saying. Gotta see it to believe it & most ppl on the Lebron side didn’t, so they’ll say he’s the goat lol
When we talk about greatness, we go beyond the numbers. We also look at their influence within and even outside the sport. If we are talking about the best player overall, then we judge them by the numbers but we have to be careful there, we must consider the context; the competition. If one wins championship as the favorite, that does not have the same weight as winning a championship against the odds. Scoring 50 on a subpar competition is not as impressive as scoring 40 on an elite defender.
No you don't, it's just basketball.
What he does outside of it is irrelevant
You looking for HELP
Besides Lebron melt down in the 2011 Championship Series, no one ever talks about Lebron/Miami Heat also were blown out by the Spurs (They lost that series by a Record number) Another mark on his legacy. Michael Jordan never let anything remotely happen like that!!!!
I do and talk about how he got swept in 07 and 18
coz he never had an opponent like that and also there was the ONLY super team the BULLS.
Chorus of 3 Bru. Forgot about Shan Sharpe
Nick Wright is definitely the opposite of Skip Bayless.
Get in onto debate please.
No debate Mj all day
LeBron does not help his campaign by constantly campaigning that he’s the goat. Whatever Jordan may have done since retirement, Jordan never campaigned for GOAT-hoot while playing - he let his play do the talking. And LeBron took plays off, which Jordan never did (my only real contribution to the argument).
It's an important point though.
Regardless of stats or accolades, bron's career is saturated with desperation for acceptance. It's just annoying that he's his own biggest fan and is always rallying to get more people to see it from his POV.
Jordan wasn't out there begging people to call him the greatest ever. He just dominated and let his game speak for itself.
Jordan was confident. Bron is desperate and extremely insecure about what people think about him, and that's just a disgusting trait.
Also, it's really funny how he's been saying he only cares about winning and losing, and not at all about stats, ever since the old interview of Jordan resurfaced recently where MJ said he never chased stats, and only cared about winning. MJ basically says that if he were just a stat chaser then he couldn't live with himself and would have no credibility.
MJ just gets it. Bron is a wannabe.
Every time I watch Nick and Chris debate on who's better between mj or James, Nick always takes the L.
Chris with the comeback mic drop...🧐
It's not about the quantity here but the quality!! MJ is the GOAT!! The run is mystical, it takes 3 Championships in a row to call it a Dynasty, Mike had 2 of em' an he is has had the most greatest magical legacy of all time, checks all the boxes an no weaknesses!! MJ is the GOAT
He won to Ewing, Malone and Barkley, Lebron won to Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, Kawhi and Popovich, he won to Curry, Klay, green and a 73-9 team, and he won to a young Durant, Westbrook and Hardem, all of them better than the 90s players who Jordan won, I'll give you Miami in 2020 wasn't a great team, but the teams who jordan faced in 90s were average teams today
@Martin Fal. Those 90's teams would destroy every team Lebron played in the finals. Including the Durant Warriors... It's called defense. Something you rarely see today which is why younger fans overrate many of today's great teams. Yes they are great, but how great would the be if you add resistance to the equation?
He also had time to rest and recharge
Mythical is the operative word here...
Those last comments, so ridiculous. It doesn't matter Jordan had rest, it wasn't like he had 3 years off or something like that and on top of that he did it twice three times in a row LeBron is good but ain't that good he's not good enough to be put on Jordan's level he ain't good enough to be number two and not good enough to be in the top 10 then on top of that I just love how everyone just bypasses Kobe. LeBron's best attribute is longevity and that's it🤷♂️
Somehow, every time Nick makes this plea, LBJ’s Goat claim is flimsier than ever.
If you've made your mind up, everything to the contrary sounds like rubbish
@@jaysandi88 exactly it goes both ways...that's coming from a guy that thinks MJ is the GOAT
Nick's face when he sees the graphic...Lol.
I think MJ is better than LeBron but I don’t think anyone was expecting Kyrie and Bron to defeat the KD, Steph, Klay, Draymond Warriors. That team was literally stacked from top to bottom when it came down to starters, bench, coach, fit, etc
6-0 in the finals is such a dumb argument. MJ played more than 6 seasons in the NBA, those seasons that didn’t end in a championship are still losses. Losing in the finals isn’t worse than losing in the 1st round. A loss is a loss, they all count equally.
The common sense kills the Jordan camp
Did you hear when Wilde’s said if Lebron wins 6 rings it won’t matter because he can’t go erase the finals losses…. I mean, is that not the most insane thing anyone has ever said? Just think about that. 6 rings with 6 finals appearances is somehow better than 6 rings with 12 or more finals appearances!?! This is why the goat debate is so silly to have. Many of the people on MJs side arent willing to be even a tiny bit reasonable.
@@crazytrain111 if you are talking about about the goat debate, then yes. The lows matters. Thats what happens when you are having a goat debate. You HAVE to nit pick. Reaching the finals is NOT the same thing as winning the title. Ask yourself this. Would you rather be 6-0 in the finals or 6-12? If you are a competitor and want to win then this is a no brainer. Also a big asterisk as to why lebron reached so many finals is because the East was awful during Lebrons years. Lebron had a relatively easy time getting to the finals playing in the east
@@shakingbake8077 6 and 12 in the finals is SO MUCH better than 6-0 in the finals. We aren’t talking about field goal percentage, we are talking about your team playing in the final game of the season. There’s no way you can argue with a straight face that it’s more impressive to have 6 rings with 6 finals, as opposed to having 6 rings while playing in a dozen finals. You guys need to stop doing this… if you’re a competitor you want your team to make it as far as they possibly can every single year. If you’re going to lose you want to lose against a champion, playing in the final game of the season. If you players both played for 10 years. Player A goes 2-0 in the finals and player B goes 2-6 in the finals, the player who has 2 rings and played in 6 finals obviously had the more successful career
@@crazytrain111 You missing the point on Wiles take. Bron had melt downs in some of those final loses, something that never happened to MJ! And the NBA doesn't give out rings for final losses! 6 for 6 is 100%, 6 for 12 is half that at 50%, my guy.
It's not even close and shouldn't be a continuing topic. Jordan is the GOAT. James is top 10. But the GOAT he will never be.
But why do you think Jordan is the goat?
@@Robert-sx9mm besides all of his team and individual accomplishments. The ones that actually count. Who rude has done more for the league than Jordan? Who else made the NBA an international and global sport? James didn't. It was MJ. So, there's my answer. If you think that James is better than MJ? What makes you think that?
Nick Wrong has EXPLOITED again and again 😁
I followed almost every sport.
And only in NBA where Finals losses, is damaging more than not to reach the Finals.
It's a team sports. 😅
8:26 Michael Jordan won 72 games and lost only 10 in 1996. I wonder what is the highest amount games in any given season that LeBron James has won with super team after super team.
Jordan had a SUPERTEAM! He had better teams than Lebron ever had, irrespective if they were more "organically" constructed. That's the reality. MJ may well be the best player of all time, but he for sure was on the best teams of all time. Is it even comparable?
@@ignacionava8699 Stop it LeBron has had more help than MJ and still can catch up
@@ignacionava8699 you must be young lol definitely not the case Jordan never played along a top 5 player at any point in his career and before you say pippen he was NOT a top 5 player
Was it Jordan or the whole team!
@@Jarious03 Okay, Wade, Irving, AD were never top 5 players either. I remember basketball in the 90s, so not that young, sorry. And I'm not sure when "top n player" became so important - you must be younger - back then basketball was a team sport (it still is), and feel free to disagree but those Bulls were much better teams (aggregates of all the players and coaches) than any of Lebron's teams. Blame "LeGm" if you really really want to, but I still stand by that statement. And for sure Jordan was the biggest part of making those teams so great, but he had all-time players around him, as has Lebron, and consistency and role players (I'd argue more than Lebron).
9:02 WTF is Nick talking about?
MJ won MVP and DPOY IN THE SAME YEAR! HE averaged 37 points FOR A WHOLE SEASON!
He actively ignored that screen Broussard put up that clearly showed MJ had more individual accomplishments over a shorter time. He also brought up a 27 win streak and ignored the fact MJ HAD the record for MOST wins ever by a championship team. In a year he won FINALS and Season MVP.
Bro lebron stats in his finals losses are better than Jordan’s in WINS have context bro jordan also shot 27 shots a game
Lebron has 2 win streaks better than any of Jordan’s he averaged 37 n still lost in the second round he’s obviously not a winner they had pippen on a rookie contract for his whole career he had the best coach and gm at the same time they got Scottie pippen n Horace grant in the same draft lebron got boobie Gibson Jordan had better supporting cast
@@taheemtownsend1003 thank you
@@Youngmoneycashmoney I'm sorry, isn't the whole point of playing a game to WIN the championship?
Who cares what someone did in a losing effort? He should have tried to score less and WIN.
@@taheemtownsend1003 Who cares about random reg season win streaks? Does Lebron have the record for longest win streak? 72 wins is way more impressive.
Lebron had D wade/Bosh (All stars), Kyrie (one of the greatest scorers ever), and Ray Allen (Top 2 greatest shooter ever) to help him win finals. Stop talking to me.
Why y’all do Nick like that and cut the clip off right before he responded to Chris? 😂
Cuz he didn't need to spew anymore B.S. Broussard wrapped up the convo well there. Nothing more to say, really.
Daaam, Chris got em good!!!
I like Kevin Durant's recent perspective on this (borderline exhausting) question. When players of different generations are so close in so many areas it comes down to preference and some aspect of bias. I think, in the end, Lebron may well have the best career of all time, but at his peak, I am not sure anyone was better than MJ. And for me, Kareem is criminally undervalued as a GOAT candidate. The guy won NBA Finals MVPs 14 years apart. That fact alone is incredible.
Agree with a lot you say there apart from LBJ having the best career of all time. Plenty others had better I’d say, championship wise, done more in less time etc. I’m not sure he even wins in longevity of you factor in others like Stockton for example - no one’s beating his assists or steals, even how many games per season, he just lacks chips. So the best career is well up for debate too.
MJ 1 Kareem 2. This notion that Lebron is even #2 all-time is ridiculous. And he keeps bringing up the 3-1 comeback and completely ignores the fact that the 2nd best player in that series was his own teammate, in Kyrie. In none of the 6 Bulls titles was Pippen the 2nd best player in that series, always someone from the opposition.
Jordan said the same thing in an interview when asked the GOAT question. It's difficult to compare players that never had the opportunity to play against each other. The one on one moments matter. I also appreciate that MJ never calls himself the goat
@@youtuber_00786 lmao that’s hindsight 20/20. Steph was the reigning two time league MVP before the series started??
@@youtuber_00786 that would be a fair argument if lebron didn't lead both teams in every statistical category. Lebron was basically the first and second best player on his own team
LOL it's the epitome of the "participation trophy" meme to try and chalk up finals appearances as something to be lauded as opposed to "how many did he win?"
That being said, what really removes LeBron from the GOAT debate was his terrible performance against Dirk.... Frickin.... Nowitzki..... in the 2011 finals.
The epicness of that meltdown..... Good lord.... That alone is why he is disqualified below Jordan AND Kareem for GOAT status.
As always Chris is on point
I’m a Lebron and MJ fan. MJ is the GOAT, Lebron really could have made a case beating the Warriors with KD at least once. Really would have been impressive if he could have done it without Kyrie. He is an all time great, in a class of his own but it’s going to be hard for him to overtake Jordan, not just for the losses but the fashion of certain losses. Even though these are team losses, he is the catalyst like MJ was. But for those who pick Lebron, the case is a valid argument.
i totally agree with this if lebron beat a kd warriors jus once i prolly have him ahead.
Lol
You said it would of been impressive if Lebron won without Kyrie... And to that I say, it would be impressive if Jordan won a ring without Pippen.
@@lcbd95 he won 2 games against the jazz without pippen barely playing in 98 finals and won lebron without ad got blown out 2 straight games
@@chicityjay I mean, lebron was clearly not fully healthy that series
The point here is facts at 4:12 is "Jordan was named the goat after 3 rings" 100% true!!! It was never about the number of championships. But the goal post has been moved obviously.
That obviously would’ve changed had he remained stuck on 3 the rest of his career though. 3 championships (won in a super rare three-peat) started the GOAT convo, but the next 3 championships (also won in a three-peat, and combined with all of the individual accolades earned for play on both ends of the floor) ended it.
@@brandoncrockett9266 I see what you mean, but the reality is, rings were not a factor. Now they are. He was crowned goat right away after 3 mainly because what we were witnessing. The planet never seen a guy that amazing at 🏀. He was other worldly. Same goes with Lebron. Other worldly. Never seen a talent like him. 1st Years in Cle he was nuclear energy force, Miami he was the same but sharper. Still video game like, 2nd cle stint he was complete package. He did everything elite. The hate grew so strong then because he was showing the full goatness. Unreal seasons. And now. He's playing some solid basketball in his 19 season. He's been point guard, Sg, sf, pf, and Center. He's also guarded all 5 in his career. The game never witnessed a player like him. But because mj has already been decided as the best we've ever seen, even when a guy comes along that been looking like the better or equivalent, he is immediately shot down. It's a God complex. Once you are deified as the God of the sport throughout media, anyone who comes close is a threat, and if mentioned alongside is considered blasphemous.
@@marcusg1021 I respectfully disagree. Again, for all the (fair) points you made about how in love people were with the look of MJ’s game after the first three-peat, it wouldn’t have lasted had he never won the next 3 championships. Lebron’s first run in Cleveland is another example of this; he jumped to Miami with Wade and Bosh in part because he knew that the individual accolades he’d won with the Cavs wouldn’t sustain him the rest of his career. Without championships, he wasn’t going to have a strong case against Jordan. And that wouldn’t have just been thanks to Jordan’s 6 championships.
Remember, Chicago was a basketball wasteland before MJ got there. And while it’s true that MJ didn’t win his first title until after Pippen and Jackson arrived, those three had to grow together for a couple more seasons before they finally reached the mountaintop, with Jordan unquestionably leading the way. So the story of Lebron doing so much basketball-wise for Cleveland-minus winning a championship-wouldn’t have held as much weight knowing where the Bulls were when they landed Jordan. And again, it’s not just the 6 titles; Jordan combines those with 6 FMVPs, 5 league MVPs, 10 scoring titles, 9 first-team all-defense selections, a DPOY, and numerous regular and postseason records to make one of the most impressive resumes in the history of ANY sport. All that said, I respect your opinion.
Mj did not play a single game in the NBA and the USA team coach said he was the greatest basket ball player he ever saw ...
@@brandoncrockett9266 🍻
LeBron being the all-time leading scorer doesn't help his case at all, and here's why
Kareem is the all-time leading scorer now, and has been for years, but we never speak of him as "The GOAT. Not only does he have more points than LeBron, or Jordan, but he has 6 MVPs and 6 Rings, both of which LeBron will never have, so Kareem is higher on The GOAT List than LeBron
Then why doesn't MJ agree with you regarding LBJ??? MJ said it was a different ERA & that LBJ had more responsibility than he had on the court. Basketball is a TEAM sport. It takes efforts of the team to succeed. People worship MJ & LBJ because of their OWN opinions.
It will help because Lebron is in the goat conversation a long time ago. The goat conversation is only for LBJ and MJ
Chris used a red herring fallacy at the end. I don't blame him. Tough to debate for the losing argument.
Saying 6-0 in the finals would be better than 6-6 is insane
What if AD is FMVP for Lebron’s next two (hypothetical) championship runs? Would it still be insane to say that Jordan’s 6-0 record is more impressive when MJ also went 6-for-6 in terms of FMVP’s? And how is getting there 6 more times (and losing) more impressive than “only” getting there 6 times and going undefeated? Isn’t winning the end-goal?
Shouldn’t we also consider the context in which one guy was able to make it 6 more times than the other guy, especially when the former has a losing Finals record? Doesn’t the fact that Lebron played in the East (with no Duncan, no Kobe, no Dirk, no 7 seconds or less Suns, etc. standing in his way of just *making* the Finals) for most of his career have something to do with how often he made it back? 6-0 may or may not be better than 6-6 in a vacuum, but the context of one versus the other could still hurt Lebron in the debate (and Lebron has to actually get there first before that even becomes part of the discussion and, right now, it ain’t looking good).
Nick brings up an interesting point regarding the separation between Jordan and LeBron. And there is indeed an ENORMOUS GAP between the two in accomplishments.
9x Scoring Titles
4x First Team All Defense
3x Steals Leader
2x Finals MVPs
2x Championships
1x DPOY
When you look at that resume, you realize that that's actually a Hall of Fame resume all unto itself. Yet that is the gulf between LeBron and Jordan, even after LeBron has played 4 more years than Jordan, and in actuality 6 more full seasons than Jordan since 2 of those "years" from Jordan were 17 games when he broke his foot and 17 games when he came back from baseball.
That resume, the accomplishments and accolades that LeBron is still behind Jordan? Let's look at some contemporaries of LeBron
KEVIN DURANT
4x Scoring Titles
0x First Team All Defense
0x Steals Leader
2x Finals MVPs
2x Championships
0x DPOY
GIANNIS ANTETOKOUNMPO
0x Scoring Titles
3x First Team All Defense
0x Steals LEader
1x Finals MVP
1x Championship
1x DPOY
So basically, if you add Durant and Giannis's accomplishments to LeBron's, you get Jordan.
And Jordan did ALL of his damage in 11 full seasons with the Chicago Bulls. Again, 2 "seasons" were 17 games each (injury and return from baseball). And the 2 Wizards years had no accomplishments.
11 Full Seasons, Jordan amassed accolades equivalent to LeBron, Durant, and Giannis. COMBINED! And they've played 42 combined seasons to date.
If that doesn't speak to the overwhelming dominance of Michael Jordan, I don't know what does.
Basically, there's only one other player that is in the stratosphere pantheon, and that's Kareem. And even Kareem falls short because while he has 6 MVPs, he's only got 2 Finals MVPs. That gap shows that while he's got individual hardware, in the nitpickiest of nitpicks, he wasn't "the man" for all 6 of his titles whereas Jordan was.
Other than that though, Kareem's resume is impeccable and above anyone else's, and it's not even close.
This is the best breakdown of the sports media created GOAT debate I've ever seen, I would love to see you sitting next to JJ Riddick on 1st take minus Stephen A.
@@sean70729 I wish I could too. These media hype debates are absolutely ridiculous if you spend even the tiniest amount of time doing research on the players and the accomplishments they achieved.
There's Jordan, then Kareem, and then there's literally everyone else.
The difference between Nicks supposed list of stats that would benefit LBJ and Bru's is that Chris has a list of stats that show dominance or matter. Going to the finals 10 times but only winning it 4 times doesn't show dominance. It shows that Lebron built superteams in the weakest conference in basketball for a majority of his career and failed in the playoffs more than he succeeded when it came to playing for all the money in the finals.
Yeah, massive failure. 10 straight finals with 4 championships. Honestly, not even sure he's top 100
What!? That's the definition of dominance. This superteam discussion is so preverse because Lebron beat down multiple superteams in the East. players ran West because the guy was so dominant. And sure he had great teammates but they haven't been successful before or since (exception Dwayne Wade), and eye test + statistically he carried all those teams. Not saying every year was 2008 or 2018, but saying he wasn't dominant for over a decade is just fluff. Please.
@@radicalfamily you realize thats a winning percentage of 40% right? That is literally failing 🤣🤣🤣 100% vs 40% hmmm I wonder which I would choose 🤣🤣🤣
@@ignacionava8699 Other than the Boston Celtics, there were 0 other superteams in the east until he went to Miami... He also took talent from other eastern conference teams, making it easier in the process to get to the finals. MJ carried EVERY team he was on until he was at the Wizards so don't pull that "he carried" bs. Also if you're trying to claim that players "ran west" away from Lebron towards Kobe, KD, Tim Duncan, Marc Gasol, and Dirk, you are absolutely insane. The west was unbelievably packed, where as when Ray Allen left the Celtics for the Heat that left the east with 1 super team that had 4 HoF players and Paul George at Indy and Demar and Kyle at Toronto to compete in the east. LOL
Yeah, actually every player that shoots 40% from 3 is garbage because 40% is failing. These are pathetic understandings of statistics without any contextualization.
Nick was literally begging Broussard to please considered Lebron even an inch being the GOAT, what a pitiful soul lol!
Greatness should be judged by a combination of longevity, peak, playoff stats, regular season stats, championships, clutch moments, and fadeaway shot
My problem is that the media like Nick and CB act like you can be objective on a subjective topic. Like that's literally contradictory...... and then he shows his MJ vs Lebron graphic and says, "it's clear it's over" because of the numbers but if you throw Bill Russell in their I guarantee he starts making excuses even though that's also "clear its over" smh.
Just watch a video on CZcams called 100 Jordan Feats That LeBron Will Never Pass and you’ll see why
@Dakota Rose it won’t be as compelling
@Dakota Rose just go watch the video. It’s overwhelming.
@Dakota Rose i just don't see how you can see LeBron is greater than Jordan with less championships less mvps less fmvps less scoring titles less dfpoys. LeBron has less than Jordan in almost every major category and accolade.
I can see arguments for both Jordan and Lebron as the GOAT. Whichever you have it, Both are 1 and 2 on the GOAT list imho
Apparently to MJ fans Jordan has only played 6 years in the NBA 🤣
Because jordan only had good 6 years
Apparently to Lebron fans, Lebron actually won 4 titles by counting the Disney tournament 🤣 They gave him a bejeweled Mickey Mouse ring too!
@@dafamozfam By that logic… LeBron only had 4 good years. It only counts if you win the chip right? Once again… using the logic you used
I'm walking out the room, hitting stop on the video!!