Why Airless Tires Kinda Suck
Vložit
- čas přidán 12. 10. 2021
- They really aren't the answer - but why is everyone talking about them?
Here’s a question... if normal road cars can beat some supercars in a traffic-light drag race, avoid crashes for you and even drive themselves, why on earth are we still using tyres that are full of air that can get punctures and can leave you stranded by the side of the motorway?
You pay hundreds of dollars for some new tyres, and they could be instantly rendered completely useless by a nail, some glass or even clipping a kerb in the wrong way.
And we’ve been promised a road version of these sci-fi space tyres that NASA are using - but that was nearly ten years ago - so where are they? And why can’t I get some fitted to my Volkswagen?
---
Now, before we get into these fancy, new squishy tyres - we should talk about what we have now. Even though tyres may seem like just boring black doughnuts of rubber, they're actually very well designed.
On average they last around 30’000 miles, varying on whether they are on a driven axle or not - but that’s pretty good. And they produce less noise than ever, they have very good suspension characteristics, are most comfortable, and are very predictable to drive.
And by that - I mean that when you get near the limit of grip, they break into a slide gradually. This means that the average driver can feel this happening and correct it before things go wrong.
⭕ Why New Cars Keep Failing the Moose Test
• Why New Cars Keep FAIL...
⭕ How Tesla Made the Model X Impossible to Roll
• How Tesla Made the Mod...
🔴 Would you like to be featured in a video with your car? Submit it here 👉 forms.gle/ZWMfzqCyDTBwJsqX8 🏁
We're Hiring! Are you a brilliant writer with an understanding of cars and engineering? Check the job here! driver61.typeform.com/to/M9ZZ...
Press enquiries: press@driver61.com
#AirlessTyres #MichelineUptis #Engineering - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Would you put some of these on your car??
WE'RE HIRING! Are you a brilliant writer with an understanding of cars and engineering? Check the job here! driver61.typeform.com/to/M9ZZa9f0
Nope, good ol' air for me please 😅
Daily, sure..
those suspension spoke, might make it act sort of like a low profile tire.
Who gives a f*ck how good they are on the track? one person in a million?
No way. Sorry but i`m not a writer.
If this could be combined with air to adjust to different driving conditions, sure
I see these being *perfect* spare tires. Never worrying about checking the pressure in it, and how strong it can be at a light weight, taking up a slightly smaller area in a boot.
My thoughts exactly
Now look at you big brain! (mean it in a good way lol), That would be good use.
Nice! That'd be a great use for them for now.
Why would it take up a slightly smaller area in a boot?
@@Terra_LopezAirless tires could be compressed more tightly
I had the chance for a tour of a tyre factory about 20 years ago - I’ve never complained about tyre prices since, they are frankly amazing for all their faults.
Why u spelling tire like that
@@Matts42039 because I am from the UK and that is how we spell tyre - personally I think tire looks ugly and I tire of it😂. No offence to our American neighbours across the pond by tyre is more colourful. (The u’s are added as we spell those words with them - I am adding to the bad joke of this) - Edit not sure why you name is appearing in the middle- not doing as I write it.
@@Matts42039 To tire is to get tired etc. Tyre is the rubber hoop that goes on wheels. You're welcome for the English lesson.
Thanks for the English lesson :)
@@ribbitism but a wheel isn’t a wheel without the tire it’s a rim before the tire gets on it *sarcasm*
What seems to be a better option here is a hybrid tire. An air-filled tire with enough of these "spokes" inside to make them safe to drive on in case of a blowout, since the primary goal here is to reduce fatalities from high speed blow outs and also provide the ability to get to a shop and not be stranded with a flat. Hopefully such a tire would perform mostly like a normal air-filled tire, but simply have enhanced safety and reliability.
Basically an improved version of current run flat tires.
Funny thing is, the French president had an attempt made on his life while driving in a Citroen DS, and that car's unique hydropneumatic suspension is supposedly what allowed his driver to take him off to safety despite all four tires having been shot out by the would-be assasins!
with how expensive that might be to make, it may not be worth it
@@spedenko765 As someone who easily does 1000 miles in a week, to me it would absolutely be worth whatever cost. Of course I don't pay that cost as I drive a company vehicle, but still...the safety would be worth it to a company.
@@Kelnx I guess you and me work for very different types of companies.
My real concern is their performance on motorcycles. A big part of the reason we use air tires is because of the sidewall allowing for the lean, but it looks like these would compress too much, or have little to no grip as you lean on the bike.
@@HOSPlTALLER you have to lean tho unless you wanna be going 5mph all the time
@@HOSPlTALLER Dude.. wtf are you even talking about?
Y’all @@HOSPlTALLER is joking. Chill
@@joshuaunland5031 not really
@@whodat4265 nah deadass he rly did say "perpendicular", either he's joking fr or he's planning on gyroscopes in motorcycles, which ngl would be pretty poggers my dude
I knew a man who worked for Armstrong Tires back in the early 1970's. While there he worked on a project to make tires that would never go flat using closed cell foam in place of air in the tire. When they were ready to Beta test the tires they selected a group of tire users who were particularly hard on tires, log truck operators. And a bunch of truck operators bought them with the guarantee that they would never go flat.
The only problem was that even though the tires wouldn't go flat, the tread still had to be made of a compound soft enough to grip the road, so the tread would eventually wear out and the tire would have to be replaced. When the tires began to wear out the truck operators got mad and demanded a refund or threatened law suits because they thought "won't go flat" was the same as "lasts forever."
And that's why every few years one tire company or another announces they have perfected tires that won't go flat but they never ever come on the market. They always find out that far too many people will equate "won't go flat" with "lasts forever" and either get mad when they wear out, or worse, drive them far past the point of being safe and then sue the tire company for the inevitable accident they have.
That's so stupid lmao
Some people are dumb
@@DaveCMSome? Ha!
that wouldn't stand in court. even american one
Yeah some people drive on a set of tires until there's not even wire left.
Fucking maniacs.
I can imagine a hybrid design where this concept is essentially fitted around a regular conventional tire
I was thinking the same thing but, there may be reasons this isn't done.
I would assume all the compression needs to happen at the air tire part and the outer airless part needs to be rigid in order to actually gain the protective benefits this design aims for. This just doesn't sound like a great design though because it adds too many cpmplex systems and gets the flaws from both while also potentially introducing its own unique flaws and doesn't fix much in exchange.
I think production versions cover the exposed bit, making it look like a normal tire
Run flats?
Would be too heavy
@@carlosandleon Yeah, they're definitely not gonna be exposed like that. Can you imagine all the crap getting stuck in them?
I've seen some lawnmowers that use airless tires, lets the lawn crew get over curbs very easily without it being a jarring transition. It was very neat.
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. John 3:16, 17
Why are you spelling tyre like that?
@@Chris-nn3vu because "tire" is its proper spelling?
@@wockhardt69 Your point?
@@wockhardt69 not just america, it's the same in a few asian countries i've lived in
The tweel has found a good use on commercial mowing equipment. They don't go flat and traction is far less of an issue on relatively slow moving mowers. I don't see them overtaking pneumatic tires anytime soon.
I’ve seen them on golfcarts too.
Well, the normal tires have close to a centuries worth of innovation and maturity, so these airless one have a lot of catching up to do, but the potential benefits are there. I guess it's more likely that some kind of hybrid will get more popular if it ever comes out, but it would be nice to have less waste with longer lasting tires, even if it means making a few concessions on the performance side.
So true……tire engineering is built on multiple decades of amassed knowledge. These people aren’t showing up to work everyday to “re-invent the wheel”. At this point, if they make a very small, incremental improvement over the previous version, that means a successful year.
I could see it as the internal skeleton of air tires incase you have a puncture.
I think the reality is that most people don’t care about performance that much. Yes, it adds to safety of course, but I’m sure most drivers would prefer to reduce their expenditures on tires and such than having more grip and stuff
@@pavelshevchenko4848 lived in a totally broke family, my dad never cheaped out on the tires. It's a good way to lose your entire family not paying attention to grip and safety.
@@Syllaren valid
This Michelin effort has been in progress for a lot longer than 10 years. I was an engineer by trade, before retiring 20 years ago. I was involved in producing industrial tire yarns, used in the manufacture of pneumatic tires, and we were aware of Michelin's program about 30 years ago, since it threatened our business. I also once attended a conference on the design and development of pneumatic tires, and came away highly impressed with the level of sophisticated engineering. Tires are one of the most highly engineered and evolved composites in modern industry. It will be a real challenge to improve on at, while maintaining the level of performance and low cost. I don't expect it to happen very soon..
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. John 3:16, 17
@@spicydramarama852 bruh
@Sverker Olausson that's what I'm saying lol
To be fair, they don't need to exactly "maintain the level of performance and low cost", they need to be better for the scenario you're buying for, and that "can't be popped" factor can compensate a lot! I expect them to show up in the off-road tire market first, since changing tires in the mud is a royal pain in the ass, and well worth the money to avoid
I remember reading about these in popular mechanics 20 years ago, they were saying they should be on the market by 2010. At this point I feel like it's never going to happen
We were supposed to colonise Mars by 2020
Oh hey, remember the flying cars of the 70’s? LOL, many of the things that were supposed to be out 50 years ago are still in beta tests today, having gone through 3-30 different companies all who probably had to abandon projects because of patents from other companies.
That's because companies like Michelin don't give a shit. It's going to take another Tesla, bulldozing its way through the morass of knuckle-dragging fossils.
Michelin just announced they will be released next year for the public
Everything from a lab is 5 to 10 years to market.😅😅😅😅😅
What no one seems to mention with these new concept design of airless tires is, what happens when debris get trapped in the spokes of the tires themselves? This would result in the tire being unbalanced and would be a major problem. Perhaps a thin wall of rubber covering the spokes is what would be needed for a consumer version of these tires, and all the concepts are open design to showcase the difference between these and regular air filled tires.
But if you think about it, it would be impossible to injection mold the tires with the spokes covered, they would need to be added separately, but then there is another problem: when you hit a curb with your wheel, it might rip off that layer covering the spokes
It is very hard to cover those easily and reliably, no current airless tires have their spokes covered, not at NASA, not in army prototypes, not on electric scooters
These are prototypes, the production model will have sidewalls. Michelin already confirmed this.
@@harambe7221 I am more worried about mud, wet mud will stay for a while between the spokes
@@harambe7221 Yes even slight imbalance in wheels will cause vibration and accelerate tire wear especially at high speed. Thats why tire shops will balance your wheel after installing new tires
Im like 92% sure this is already the plan
Honestly: I’d be happy with a airless tire that’s safe and reliable for 50K miles designed to stay under 90mph. I don’t drive faster that 85 anyway.
Well, it doesn't look like youll get one anytime soon IMO. I think with the problem of load spreading... Trapped Debris and also fatigue and splitting of the rubberised spokes after time, were all going to be better off putting up with the occasional puncture...
I hit 140 mph on a semi regular basis - up to no good on the free way 👀. Still I think airless tires are cool and want to see where the technology goes. The fact that they are spikestrip proof is a huge selling point
@@ant7699 As far as i know only concept tires dont have side panels. Once and mostly IF they ever get to market, it has been confirmed, that it will have the sides covered, so nothing can really get stuck in there.
@@ErectileSceptile hahaha, run from the cops much?
Laughing in German.
Airless tires are awesome, had the privilege of driving a truck with them except the set i drove on had side walls. There was no over excessive roll and the drive was really smooth.
so you think you are funny
@@0MVR_0 they wernt making a joke
@@vladimirtiffany An airless tire with walls on the sides is the conventional version
@@0MVR_0 no it's not lol
@@comicbookguy2326 Then I withdraw the relevant statements.
I'm curious to see how it will work in winter conditions. I suspect there might be ice build up in the tire structure which may cause imbalance.
We will see. Maybe they only sell summer tires or use some coverage.
I think the final product will be sealed
I suspect the commercial version would have a sidewall to protect the spokes. These open versions look like show pieces intended to show off how they work.
Aside from debris entering the gaps and causing trouble, I suspect the airflow past these gaps would create a ton of noise at speed.
@@Anon_jonn
Old wheel designs seeing the new tires are also pressurized: "You got so far... but where did it lead you? back to me!"
@@jonumine6250 Nice cringe.
I actually saw these on a small excavator . Makes perfect sense that it would work well for huge high weight low speed construction applications. You don't have to wory about stuff gettibg stuck in the spokes at 5 mph and it carries large weight better than a typical hige thick construction tire.
I have a skid loader with airless tires. Never had a problem but, like you said, the loader doesn't break 10 MPH
I worked with an army prototype equipment carrier; used to integrate into infantry platoons, and they used these tires. Now they only weighed about 700lbs but driving then though forest/swamp and then 25mph on road I never had an issue with them.
You'd be shocked to see how well they perform on high performance off road vehicles
consider , the standard "balloon" tyre exerts pressure equally in all directions , air causes the tyre to grip the rim , stopping it peeling off under cornering or "side load" conditions and braking , it also has volume but not "mass" hence the "light"weight, the airless tyre is heavy , has to have mechanical attachment to the rim and has a "dead" feel because of the "unsprung " weight , compressed air has a natural "spring"effect that counters this , plus the grip because of this "pressure"is something the airless will never have
Incredibly informative. I've been curious about this. Thank you
The title is misleading. From the video, it seems the jury is still out on how these perform. In fact, at 8:00, he said they could offer the best of both world, good traction and precise steering. Eliminating the risk of high speed blowout is a huge benefit, not just for cars and motorcycles, but also bikes I'm a cyclist, had a blowout this summer that could've killed me. It's early still, but I'm excited to see where these are going.
Yeah, I'm gonna have to dislike the video. I didn't see him deliver on the titles claim of how airless tires suck.
Unfortunately this is a very common trend on CZcams videos, even in good ones.
Bryce, I think motorcycle tyres need to be quite different. A car tyre has flat profile while a motorcycle tyre has a round profile, so that when you lean in a corner the tyre still has similar contact patch and similar grip, and that also means different kinds of deformations compared to a car tyre.
@@alejandrobasaldua5930 If it was phrased as a question then it would be more accurate.
There are airless tires available for bicycles now, and they do suck, quite badly. Yes, they never go flat, but the ride and handling is garbage. One thing not mentioned here is that the entire volume of air in the tire functions to absorb every shock, because the entire volume is compressed in that instant. An airless tire only uses the volume of tire directly in line between the hub and contact patch to absorb a shock. That means the shock absorbing ability of those spokes needs to be many many times greater than the same volume of air.
The thing that makes me turn down this technology is that pneumatic tires distributes the load evenly thorough the enire wheel because it's the air pressure inside the tire that transfers the load. With these aiirless type of tires no matter how efficient the support structure might be the force on the wheel will always be localized to the area where the tire meets the floor, this reduces the wheel's life dramatically. The best use for this thechnology is to merge both into one, having pneumatic tires with a mild supporting structure inside. Since now tire valves are equipped with pressure sensors you can get a tire popped but not end up stranded inmediately because the tire still works, albeit limited, with the sensor warning you of the tire failure so you can get it fixed or replaced.
Exactly. Both is the answer. This would be an amazing advancement of modern tires, to have supporting structures inside the tire.
You just reinvented run flat tires lol
@@jacobbarefoot8457 I was just about to say run flats have been around for ages. After a tyre pops they can go 200km before you're running on the rims
Not an issue if they last long enough. They aren't meant to last forever. Just as long as a normal tire probably. If they do that, with similar performance, and aren't susceptible to going flat, then it's a win regardless.
I'm surprised he didn't mention force transfer across the tire in pneumatic tires. Doesn't seem to know what he's talking about. Also, sensorless tires are gonna be the thing soon. They detect flats by the difference in rotational speeds. A lot of cars are already doing it.
Jay Leno has a video about his 1916 Autocar Coal Truck. It still has the original tires! He said they vulcanized the rubber while attaching it the rim. It's a solid tire. They still function fine after 100 years (for going 20 MPH anyway)
Another problem would be the absence of adjustability of cornering stiffness by tire inflation. Tire pressure is very easy to change, thus, constitutes a great tool for car's balance adjustment. Also, a problem would be the weight variance (e.g. from city driving to roadtrips) that requires adjustability of the stiffness. I think that there are a lot of challenges but, the concept is great!
A lot of that adjustability comes from the shock absorbers not just the tires. Nobody i know EVER adjusts them. Worst case you can just use the appropriate tire for your road area
@@melody3741 Of course tire pressure isn't the only tool for balancing the car. Springs, ARB stiffness, roll center, camber, damper's bump and rebound are only a few of the tools used but adjusting the tire pressure is the easiest for a daily driver. Plus the fact that absorbers don't influence the steady state response of the car. Also, don't forget the difference between curb and gross weight.
The only people I know regularly changing pressures for their tires are off roaders (mud/sand/rocks)
I’ve never met/heard of anyone regularly changing their tire pressure between city/road trips.
You’d be the first.
@@JH-qy7zw Whether you have heard someone do it or not the right thing to do for a car is to vary the pressure according to the car load so that you maintain the right contact patch! Look at your car 's door (usually) and you will see what pressures the manufacturer suggests for each condition.
@@vageliswrc6050 that might be true but I doubt most people are adding or subtracting 1000s of lbs from their car. A few hundred won't make a difference.
10 years? I’ve been seeing similar tyres concepts back when I used to read Popular Mechanics in the 90’s.
Just saw these on a skid steer or some small piece of equipment today.
Lol. That car concept in an 1957 issue of Popular Mechanics had no tyres at all.
This is up there with fusion energy. It’ll always be 10 years away.
Our host was looking forward to entering pre-school in 1990.
All you snarky people are clearly from the future. We are currently in the era before CZcams.
Just force Pirelli to make them standard in F1. Those things would be bullet proof as heck
Forcing them to be used in racing would turbocharge development of them!
I think rally would do the job too
So...why do they suck? I must have missed that somewhere. Give me a MM:SS if you saw it.
@@MrPLC999 heat management is very... complicated and the lateral g forces would probably obliterate the tyres. Also Setup is more complicated because you have no pressure to adjust.
And cost 30k each
I thought about also encasing the sides of these tires, so there would be a possibility of having these rubber structures and air inside the same tire, in case the tire gets punctured, the tire won’t be completely useless since the pressure would just go to the rubber structures inside
I thought about that too, just not the air part
Very interesting, especially what you were saying near the end of the video re possibly getting the best of both worlds (grip and precision in corners). And I like the idea of having different tyre designs specifically made for different purposes.
my main point of thought is tyre pressures. with a standard tyre you fill or empty it depending on temperature AND how much weight it is loaded with. if you have no air you cant control how stiff the tyres are. if you have a small hatchback it could be like riding on concrete wheels but if you have an suv towing a trailer you could be riding on your hubs with the tyres fully compressed. I'm interested to see how they manage this!
Surely they could design the tyres for a cars kerb weight, or for an effective load rather than a psi rating
@@bongocat5223 that would certainly be one way of doing it but I think it would be unlikely that people would buy another set of the correct weight wheels just for when they go somewhere with a loaded up car.
there was a point in the video though where they re-treaded the tyres while they were on the car. perhaps you have a roll on tyre change station that weighs the car and fits the right wheels for you so you don't need 2 or 3 sets of wheels and have to change them yourself.
Im sure while Michelin are researching about a new tyre they have taken this into account. Maybe that's where a lot of the issue comes from? My best guess is they'll develop the spokes between the wheel and tyre to resist more weight as and when it is added, so the more weight it detects, or the more load it comes under the stiffer the spokes become to compensate. No idea how they'd do that, but that's my best guess for how they'd get round it. Either that or they sell the tyres with much lower load ratings.
@@crisrose9707 they could also create progressive tyres, so the harder you crush them the stronger they resist. The technology exists and that would sort the issues above
Progressive sounds nice but for ofroad use it's not about being Progressive but about being able to adapt your pressure to the terrain and the situation. They would also have to be closed tyres and not these open spokes. The open spokes would be terrible for offroad driving in muddy conditions.
When Michelin introduced the first radial tire, the Michelin X, I tried some on a car that I raced and rallied. They were fantastic in that the grip compared to cross ply tires was phenomenal. But when they lost grip, usually at very high speed in a corner, they lost it in an instant and worse, did not regain grip until the car was nearly stopped, either by my braking or a track limiting barrier. I used them for endurance racing and on my trans-European travels for the tow car. The wear was minimal and the fuel efficiency was fantastic.
But as other radials came on the market I switched to some of them. Pirellis didn't wear well but the transition at high slip angles was awesome. Dunlops were the best in the rain but Goodyear performed best overall, provided you buffed half the tread away before fitting.
So, what's the point of my diatribe? Just look at how good even the cheapest tires perform today. Michelin pioneered the radial tire and are considered one of the best tire manufacturers today. I'm confident that they will succeed. Eventually.
I am sure people will be driving on airless tires in the near future and certainly on heavy vehicles where the benefits are greatest. Buses, trucks, HGVs, etc will use airless first and Ferrari's and Lambo's probably last. But they will use them eventually. I'd put them on my 39,000 lb GVW RV now if I could.
Very well worded. I know next to nothing about tires lol, so reading your comment was very educational for me! Kudos!
Tyre
As a cyclist these will be a huge improvement in safety. In a standard car you have the redundancy of four tires on four rims. A bike? One goes out and the rider goes flying 🦐
@michelin
@@PiOfficial people spell it differently, you still know what they mean
I saw this concept tire some time ago (not sure how long), I was interested then and I am still interested. I always wondered what happened to this concept, I'm glad to see it's till around. I would love to have these tires on my car if they actually work as advertised.
I’ll be looking forward to these. A couple years ago I had got a new 🛞 because of a puncture. One month later to the day, driving down the road when some guy doing yard work with a blower blows yard debris through the sidewall and I’m headed right back to the tyre store. 🤦♂️
I work at the high performance Michelin plant (cup 2, pilot super,etc.) and the innovation in tires is crazy. The tweel/uptis tire is made at the same plant I work at. The way they are made would blow your mind.
Do enlighten us good sir
Only concern I have is if mud or dirt get lodged in the ribs and unbalance the tire
@@sarajanot7054 most likely you'd be able to just use a hose/power washer to clean them out
@@YourLocalRaccoon sure let me get the hose when i notice heavy vibration on the highway
@@DanielRevay there could also be some kind of flexible tough skin on the outside that would prevent anything from getting into the holes
This has been "about to hit the market" for a while. I remember reading about tires like this 10 years ago. Then they showed up on slow moving heavy equipment and skid loaders. Never saw one on a road car, and idk why not.
I SPOTTED ONE IN THE WILD IN LAS VEGAS IT WAS A CITY OWNED FLEET CAR I BELIEVE IT WAS A CIVIC THAT WAS 2 MONTHS AGO
i think its because then companies might lose profits
Hi ..so .you don't know why these airless tires aren't readily available for consumers? Allow me to elaborate on why ....all just my humble opinion here ....All spike strips used by Law Enforcement would then be rendered useless..worldwide..🌐 😱..All criminals would be having a field day , jumping for joy🤸🤸🤸🤸🎊🎉🎊🎁 with these puncture - proof tires 😱😵..maybe not a good thing for society , especially now in this increasingly - berserk world..😵 something to consider .. Does this world really need to help the criminal be more dangerous ?!?🤔😳🤯
@@muhammad4779 Why? Tires wear out through daily use pretty regularly. Not everything is a conspiracy or corporations keeping you down. Sometimes new ideas either aren't that good and get abandoned, or take longer than people thought.
I wonder if they would be more useful for your average work truck as they are typically not going to experience the same extremes a sports car does. Although, the base weight difference could put the same forces on the tire at lower speeds bringing us back to the same current issues. Interesting and exciting concept though, and would be nice for your general construction vehicles that encounter more destructive debris than a road car.
They’ve been working on these for decades. I remember demos back when I was in high school in the ‘90s. It’s such a cool idea, I hope they figure it out soon.
"Black Donuts of Rubber" will be the name of my electro-salsa band and "Good Ol' Air" the name of our first single.
Great video. I'd forgotten about those airless tires. Even in electric scooters, with much less demanding work, airless "honeycomb" tires are still second-rate
How about the sticky Rick band?
"An innertube is a black rubber bagel." ---I saw that somewhere in the '70s.
so, living in Canada, any month with an "r" in it could experience snow. Driving through snow on airless tires will undoubtedly cause some snow to accumulate inside the tire. when driving, tires tend to warm up so once there is snow accumulating inside the tire and the car stops, the snow will likely start melting and because the ambient temperature is freezing. the melting snow will also freeze. How will this affect wheel and tire balance?
I can see the slush getting inside the tire and freezing solid. Perhaps even freezing the tire to the ground if you park when it is warmer and it turns cold at night
Michein has already confirmed there will be sidewalls. Sheesh, it's a non issue.
The ERW wheel has sidewalls and negative pressure.
That a f*ing good question!
@@percyfaith11 That would make a huge difference ...
Quite on the contrary, I was really surprised how little impact a flat tire makes to my run-of-the-mill everyday car. I had not even noticed in city traffic that one of my tires had gone flat - a neighboring driver told me through the window at the traffic lights. Granted, on the highway, I would most likely have noticed myself, but at around 30mph on smooth tarmac, I did not! No audible rumble, no tremble in the steering wheel, no pull to one side, nothing.
Shows me how well designed all the _other_ components of wheels and suspensions are these days.
bruh we did a balloon race in science class. one kid used old HDD discs with bearings for wheels. one unscrewed immediately and the thing continued perfectly straight and level and came first for distance. the only other components were toothpicks and a piece of cardboard. nothing to do with advanced engineering. your car just becomes a three legged stool instead of a four legged one.
I would be more interested to know how they perform on snow, how well they go once full of snow and ice?
I'd be worried about the fatigue life of those springs as well as how their spring constants change with temperature (as I would expect them to get a lot softer as the temperature increases).
Glass fibre reinforced plastic parts have shockingly long fatigue lives. They are used as springs, so there is some accumulated field experience. Also, their stiffnesses are pretty much temperature-independent, as long as they are used in terranean conditions, because the glass-fibres are the components providing the stiffness.
Replacing these tires along with the rim tells me that each replacement would be a hefty investment. It is unknown if they'd offer a trade in program for worn out tires, because if they don't, they'll end up at the same landfill as the air tires themselves.
They can get retread, so yes it would also likly have a core charge. What your describing is already the system used for commercial truck tires.
But you'd be replacing them less often, and a smart company would work out how to refit a worn tread and spokes to an existing rim
@@jaydunbar7538 how many of the garages near you have a retreading machine?
@@jaydunbar7538 Video said they'd get sent back to Michelin to get the retread. Sounds expensive to ship these things back to France to be re-worked. There would also be legal barriers to cross, at least there would be in the USA, where retreads on passenger cars have been outlawed for decades.
@@tippyc2 The thing is, you can retread air tires just fine. There are companies that do it, and their performance has been verified independently.
Some of the characteristics might be adjusted on the fly with compression rings of sorts.
With air, there is still a huge opportunity to adjust the air volume and introduce dampers within it. A separate bladder that's connected to the one that is close to the road surface, connected by a variable valve. The bladders could even sit side to side to allow for less or al least slower compression of the worst hit side of the tyre, giving more support when needed.
I buy only from tire4coin
I can see these things catching on for things like forklifts and other heavy duty machines just because of how durable they would end up being, no worries about punctures which can be a very bad thing on larger vehicles. To be honest I would probably pick up some of these for my car once they hit the shelves just to see how they feel, if they perform well I might end up sticking with them.
Wouldnt it be a good idea to add the design inside the tire? So when it inevitably gets flat, the wheel just relies on the inside? It would add weight but it would be interesting to see how it handles and lasts.
Yes. That's already a thing. They're called run-flat tires.
@@fredericli357 partially. most run flats just have a much stronger sidewall in place of a full support system built in the tire.
@Bytsize. .Great point. Best one by the way. Thanks.
That would add a lot of additional weight. Wheel weight is a big factor in fuel mileage and power.
@@cranelord The extra weight of run-flat tyres is almost cancelled out by eliminating the need for a spare.
My concern is how well they’d last in a skid, summernats and rockynats tracks eat them tires up quick! Maybe you could exchange them reforming things for a bit more tread
Thanks for your video and your opinion.
Your perspective seems to be more focussed on track performance. But most “normal” people just need tires for normal conditions.
I drive a Toyota Highlander and I am really looking forward to buy the first available pair of uptis tyres, despite the weight of the car. I really don’t like normal tyres.
these will give you a newfound appreciation for pneumatic tires.
$1000 Per Tyre every 2 years(because the rubber will still wear) to save $20 on a puncture.
Seems legit.
When was the last time you punctured a sidewall and it only cost you $20?
@@alexfodor8066 some say when you puncure a side wall you should not repair it... and a standard puncture happens frome time to time
When you puncture the corner between the sidewall and the tread it is not possible to properly patch a tire.
Looks like it might be a good system for retreads. Instead of buying a whole new wheel & tire combo, you take it to a shop with a machine that uses fingers inserted into the spokes to bend them even more, shrinking the outside diameter enough to slide the old tread off and push a new one on. Release the spokes, and it expands again, locking the tread against longitudinal ribs on the wheel portion. A machine like this could change the tire portion in a few seconds, with little skill required.
Very good point
The main problem will be making a material that can handle both vertical and horizontal stress for a very large amount of time. It would be fine if the car was in constant motion but once you leave it in one place for a long period of time the materials will begin to alter form due to the constant stress on that particular area of the tire and it not being equally distributed (like when driving).
Eh, simple fix, just make sure your car is lifted off the ground whenever you park, it’s what I do.
It's also the reason why tires need a certain amount of air pressure to come in contact with the ground, anyway. With the market pushing out giant frigates, I'm not sure if these 'Airless Tires' will be good with an extraordinary amount of weight involving trucks and the added loads involving construction and the like! As cool as these new tires are, I'm still iffy about it!
They go great on an off-road track (that is not designed for speed)
The ones I have used in the military were great at low speed and really comfortable off-road
This is where i see these tyres shining. Military, less maintenance, less risk of the vehicle being out of action due to a flat, less vulnerable to small arms, etc and etc, for road vehicles maybe not the solution rn, but for military uses, the worlds your oyster.
I think in the future they would make various types of spokes that gives you those different feels. More stiff material may make it feel more like having higher psi.
I can totally see tires like this becoming the norm on normal road cars in the not too distant future. I can't imagine those at a track though. I can't imagine them to be lighter, stiff or soft enough in the different areas to outperforme regular tires, but who knows. It'll be fun to see the progression over the coming years.
depressing garbage. That shit isn't going on my car that's for sure
@@AverageAlien wow! This person hates progress! They're so cool !!
@@jonasgrill1155 Lmfao progress my ass. This is regress.
@@jonasgrill1155 Progress apparently means more pussy ass safety features for garbage drivers
@@AverageAlien actual caveman
The fact they don't estimate a price on these tires tells me it will be high, possibly very high.
Easily $1000 per wheel
I'm sure the airless tires would add a great deal of weight and rotating mass, greatly reducing fuel mileage and reducing the life of other components such as wheel bearings, brakes, and suspension parts.
maybe, maybe not. If it takes the same amount of rubber to make the walls strong enough to be pressurized and handle the spikes during impacts then the overall weight wouldn't change much at all, they also don't need the steel mesh apparently so that would save a lot of weight too. I think more of the mass looks like it would be closer to the axis of rotation too, which would lessen the impact but I have literally no way to make any measurements meaningfully.
@@jypsridic The finished product would need sidewalls too as cars are driven through mud and snow which would greatly throw off the balance. I'd imagine it would need a belt of some sort to keep it round without getting wonky, or splitting between the supprt columns. The inability to regulate the stiffness would bring on another layer of issues such as bad fuel economy or traction. I'm not against the idea but fear that it creates more issues than it solves.
@@deputydillhole if they attached it at the outer and inner rims I don't think it would be a major issue.
I think the ideal will be pressurized chambers that have enough rubber to be structurally sound but use air for most of the shock dampening but where like 15 of the cells could get damaged without noticing the difference.
@@jypsridic I agree that a hybrid would be more ideal but kind of defeat the purpose.
@@deputydillhole they'd be low enough pressure to not blow out, rigid enough from the rubber to not go flat, bouncy enough from the air to deal with heat. Losing a cell would just result in a small bump on every rotation, which would be annoying but safe.
What about a vacuum type thing attached to the rear of the radiator that sucks in air sending it to the tires keeping them at whatever desired psi you want if you get a puncture the computer sends more air to the affected tyre is this possible?
I ride an electric unicycle, where changing tires literally involves ripping the ENTIRE unit apart then doing a bicycle-style tire change. I want to see these kinds of puncture-proof tires with that technology.
lol with a name like some dandy an electronic unicycle is the perfect mode of transportation
@@foxxy46213 I'd love a Penny Farthing bicycle to go along with my top hat and waxed mustache (the dandy's best friend), but alas! Penny Farthings are $3000 for a base model.
@Joey Hext I'm going on a year, now. They're an awesome little bit of technology. But like I said, I REALLY wish they had a puncture-proof tire or an easier changing process.
@@somedandy7694 they have airless bike tires
@@TakBonez Are they the 20-inch X 2-inch types that would fit an electric unicycle (and accommodate speeds of up to 30 mph)? If so...TAKE MY MONEY!
This is a point outside of the video. "X will revolutionize the future of Y", and then everything they show you is CGI, you can just disregard it completely for now. Because it means they haven't even figured out a working model yet.
I've seen quite a few of them on things like commercial lawnmowers. Honestly low-speed applications where handling and heat aren't an issue is where they will stay for many, many more years. Which there's a LOT of those applications. Especially ones that have been using airless tires for years like forklifts, etc.
I've had 6 blowouts, several on the freeway going almost 80mph. It is very hard trying to change a tire when you have speeding cars and trucks flying by. If there are good airless tires available, that can handle high speeds and take turns without getting out of place, I'm all for that.
Michelin are currently marketing Tweels/Uptis towards small offroad vehicles and small farm equipment, which honestly is perfect for them. I'm debating getting some for my buddy's Miata 😂
It just shows how hard it is to improve on what's worked for so long.
Yep.
Reinventing the wheel ….
I had a 53 Oldsmobile and I had it floored going across the Texas desert. I was probably doing about 105 and the only thing I experienced when I blew a rear tire was the car slowing down. I probably go down to around 80 before I knew the tire blew. Of course, the tire was shot, I had a couple of spares in the trunk, so I threw another tire on and I was on my way. I was in the service and I was traveling from Phoenix to Barksdale AFB in La.
tires are best on tire4coin
I've seen this everywhere on tire videos. They're bots
@@PrinceRoyceFan667 yes, it may be a bot or a hacked account, either way it's a spam
I remember seeing an article for a new type of tyre , primarily for military vehicle applications. Superficially, it looked like a normal tyre. Inside it was almost solid but with about a thousand or so air bubbles. To ‘puncture’ the tyre you would have to effectively puncture it in a thousand place simultaneously, but even then, you could still run the vehicle in its damaged state because of how solid the tyre was. You would actually need to sever and shred the tyre to stop the vehicle. The problems with it were, it gave a very firm ride and, in 1978 were expected to cost around $4000 per tyre (in 1978 you could buy a new car for less…..not a good car but a new car 😂). Time to revisit either the Flintstones or the Jetsons 😊
Almost all modern tire blowouts are due to improper maintenance or being used far too long past there intended life. Airless tires have a long, long way to go before they make mass market.
I see one other potential issue. It all looks great in a clear weather on a clean road. But how about snow mud in late autumnt? How about normal mud on unpaved road? How about sand and gravel? Won't it enter this "tire" from the sides and affect the performance and "squishyness"? That would be my primary concern.
Well there would probably be some rubber on the side,It doesnt have that on the videos bcs they wanna show the insides.I think atleast
Not necessarily. If the underside surface of the outer tire was convex, centrifugal force would force any debris that entered out the sides as the tire rotates. Also i can see how the sides of the tire spokes could be curved in such a way to prevent crap from entering (in forward motion) but still allowing it to leave (sort of like how those rain shields work allowing you to crack the window in heavy rain without getting the inside of your car soaked).
@@magnanimus9692 convex outside could lead to non-uniform elasticity. Well, not my problem. At least for now ;-)
Your only worry would be large rocks that gets caught in the spines. The mud, snow, sand will bend with the spine and then get spun out via centrifugal force.
@@op3l yeah, sure, most of the mud and snow would get squished out. I though more of the hard contents with it.
Perhaps, just my personal guess, the conventional air tire that just doesn't go flat quickly when punctured but can last maybe a few hours for the driver to get it replaced. With a help of some sort of tire air pressure sensor, I guess. This might be just good enough.
And also, how often do we get flat tire in our lifetime realistically?
good point; i only popped a tire once on a curb, first car in reverse around a turn.. don't ask. but i've experienced plenty of slow leaks.
I’ve got “Runflat” tyres on my BMW. Have you tested those?
I find them harder, with not much suspension and the unsprung weight is of course higher.
You can get "tweels" for ride on lawn mowers. They're really good. They have tons of pros, like a flat profle, which provides more grip and a wider grip surface wich means less presure on the ground, meaning no ruts, wear is better, becaus the rubber can be harder, because it doesnt have to stretch. and the ride is smoother meaning because of the extra layer of suspention, meaning a better cut.
I remember seeing these tyres in an engineering magazine we used to get at work about 15 years ago branding them the future of tyres. Considering they had working prototypes back then. Considering it’s taken this long to get to this point there’s clearly been a lot of problems with them.
they are unbalanced and unstable at hgher speed than 45mp/h
the design is allready available for light tractors and smaller construction mashines
Or mayge they are just too good .... don't punture, last longer, work out cheaper on trade ins.......maybe they dont want to loose profit by providing much better products ??!!
@@stupitdog9686 yes, i think like you. maybe its something like the lightning bulp thing. if you selling too much longer lasting bulbs, you will get a penalty.
@@stupitdog9686 but if they need maintenance and only the company that made them can fix them you create a much better income source cutting out middle men making more profit. Plus gov tax cuts from reducing waste ect. If you think about it it's much better than normal tires.
Ya Coffee Turtle, I agree with you. Now you just have to convince the manufacturer!
You can actually see some people driving around inside of Michelin HQs in Clermont-Ferrand with these. Always fun to see, feels futuristic.
well, sort of a "premature" title since the airless car tire is just developed, and not on the market yet. I heard a rumor that new products get developed before being launched, and actually "improved" Now, the concept of the airless tire has been around quite a while on industrial lower speed vehicles, and if you want to have a "fair" title that those are "this" or "that" because of your own view when the other thing happened, well fine.
*but on the car tire, we do sort of have to evaluate them after they actually arrive -I think the video I just watched said 2024,,,
I've seen video's years and years ago. I remember one vid of these things on a Hummer, for example. So, no, not *that* new.
I've always thought that the problem of the airless rubber tyre / tire was the inability to adjust the pressure /compression according to loading needs, and the inability to increase back the pressure / compression should some of the rubber supports starts failing - you will experience unbalanced tyre rotation and declining pressure/compression until the next tyre/tire change.
But the part about heat generation and side gripping are very good points as well. 👍🏻
There are actually some of these tires in use. Bad Boy Mowers, a zero-turn riding mower brand, has these tires available as an airless alternative to their reaper tread tires, like they have with their solid ribber front tires. I've seen them only on 1 mower. They never have to patch the tires and they seem to hold up to the wear of a zero-turn mower pretty well, but in the state theyre currently in I highly doubt they'll be ready for vehicles any time soon.
I remember seeing these in popular mechanics magazine in the early 2000s at the time I thought sweet I bet these will be out soon and sell like hotcakes. 2023. Still have yet to see a set on the road on a regular vehicle. Only seen them on a couple utv's and quads. And a couple sets at the brembo factory when I was doing metal fabrication on their cnx machines.
I could see a variant of this being a modification of your standard air filled tires to create run flat tires where you could operate on the flat tire to get to a service station for a repair.
I watched the whole video and still don't know why airless tires suck, great.
I think this could work very well in a 50/50 setup, as in the outer 50% of the tire being airless and the 50 inner % being pneumatic, so that no glass or nail would damage the pneumatic part of the tire
My grandpa just bought a new lawnmower with these tires, they’re really cool to look at and don’t get stuck in the mud as easily either!
They will need to be shielded on the side I think. If small debris finds its way in the spoke area it will get chewed up fast. Which is why I think if they used a hybrid of new and old they could have these to market faster. But I get wanting to do it this way first. There is a New, and Wow factor that could really get the ball rolling.
I think that there is something needed, design-wise. When you are parking it seems that undue stress can be added to some of the spokes in the airless tires over time, and it's kind of just by chance which area of the tire is going to see the most wear. Unlike an air-filled tire, which has a tendency to redistribute pressure everywhere, these absorb the weight on the spokes that are directly making contact with the ground.
....Again, you can imagine rolling into your driveway and parking for an entire year and one area of the spokes keep getting bent over and over and over again... So, the solution on this would be a system that basically has a small internal inner tube which puffs up just to keep the entire thing as even as possible when parked. Naturally, that system would be disengaged when you take off driving.
Conversely, you could also add a small heavy duty inner tube to the airless design, just to create more of a balanced suspension feel, and that small bit could be easily replaced if need be. Although it probably wouldn't need replacing as it doesn't really make contact with anything. I guess it would be a hybrid tire....
There is a way to patch a hole depending on how the tear is like actually. If it's like a nail, a proper shop should be able to patch it with some rubber adhesive that hardens when cooled.
Problem is that when you start to load alot more weight in your car than usual, like for example going on holiday with your family. In tires filled with air you can simply increase the pressure to resist the added weight. I wonder how airless tires will handle this?
im assuming that there will be varieties made with harder plastics, and you would have to swap them as you see fit
@@ThatOnionispog sounds a bit inconvenient
@@paulpatterson7737 yeah, there isn't any other way that these would be suitable though
I remember seeing airless tires like these on TV shows like Discovery Channel 10-20 years ago and I'm amazed they are still in development.
Flying car included. I think they couldn't iron out all the problems to be marketable. But than i say the same with electric car. It still have the major problem of replacing the battery and it's not cheap or easy to make and waste a lot. But when you slap on the "save environment" on it those idiots will swallow anything.
I used to have running shoes with similar type of sole. Very often I had to remove the stones, which were got stuck in the holes...
Idk about any other country but American tires never get punctured except in very rare specific situations. They have very clever engineering and use parts of metal to help them.
I thought of a similar idea twenty years ago but I could not work out some problems as follows: What is going to happen when you are parked in a puddle that freezes ? What happens when your driving in sleet and the spaces fill up with slush?
As someone who is living in a cold climate, I'm scared of what would happen if you park in a puddle, the puddle freeze, and when you drive off, those spokes are inside a solid block of ice, making one part of the wheel rock hard, with the rest still soft.
also obliterating the weight balance
To be fair, I don't think winter versions will be the first versions released, you got some unique challenges besides that, like how you have to manage heat differently because the compound is designed for a different temperature range.
Not to mention slush collecting between the vanes...subject to freezing rock hard, leaving tires grossly unbalanced...same problem in muddy roads, every look at mud running FWD under carriages, wheel wells, etc.
Imo these visible spokes are for showcase, and the actual ones will have some sort of sidewall.
What about areas where top performance is less important than reliability? Ie; delivery driving?
Would there be a "good enough" threshold where the performance isnt crazy good but the higher reliability makes sense? If so, have the tires just not crossed that threshold yet?
You touched on the biggest bonus of them. Michelin has said that the design allows them to tune ride and handling completely independently of each other. So you can have an S-class ride with autocross handling in the same tire. No more compromise.
One of the problems with this design is what happens when mud, gravel, ice gets into the air space on these tires.
They need to have a sealed solid rubber outer framework running at local atmospheric pressure
My thinking is also that gravel getting into the flexing spokes would mean a rather quick deterioration as they grind up the spokes with every revolution of the wheel.. But then testing ought to reveal if that is indeed a problem, and maybe there are solutions to prevent or mitigate it.
I presume the 'open' look is just for the sake of marketing
I would imagine it would be sealed. Probably just open in videos to show how it works.
Recently at my grandson s school I noticed the people mowing the lawn were using these tires. They were open, which drew my attention.
the Perseverence rover on mars has had a “pet rock” stuck in its airless tyre for years and hundreds of miles now
I've seen these actually catch on in industrial settings quicker than consumer vehicles. they're getting quite common on things like forklifts and skidsteers
Yup. Just like tracks, they're great for machines traveling under 10mph.
And the technology will probably slowly grow to higher speed applications. Could imagine than in a few years we see city busses, garbage trucks and similar use.
I would like to bring up a point how do you make an airlrss tyre for commercial vehicle aplications l was a courier in Sydney Australia and l drove mostly flat top utes and if l was putting a heavy load l would increase the rear tyre pressure also you are right about tyre technology improving l do still own a flat top ute an aluminum tray with drop sides for lightness which when your ute is unlayden and it was
What about off-road tires? They need to be stiff for paved road & fuel efficiency, but soft flat for off-road gravel, sand or rocky terain. Air filled tires allows that with a simple airpump, with the spokes tires you'll be able to cover the threads with wider layer, but the stiffness will remain .
Surprised the issue of balancing wasn't brought up. This is one of the primary issues that drives up cost to the point of not being viable. The conditions these kind of tires are used today don't need balancing.
Very cool tech... what I would want is the same technology being used for electric/push/mountain/ road bikes.
What’s funny is that in France postal trucks are already equipped with these tyres (Michelin is a French company it’s normal that the tyre are tested in France) and I’ve seen them for real on a postal truck.(sorry for the bad English)
Thx for the laugh about Herbie the Love Bug!!!
I love the quality of your channels, keep it up!
From what I've seen they haven't made a definite decision on to use a side wall on these or not So basically they are showing these without the sidewall so you can see what the tire looks like on the "inside"
They already made a decision, they'll have sidewalls