Fine GW, I will do it Myself! How to FIX Reinforcments! | Astra Militarum | Warhammer 40,000
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- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
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How to fix it? Allow it to only target Battleline units. No more multiple kasrkins with renewable mines or Munitorum Command Squads with renewable Aquilas.
No, thank you. I'd be inconsistent between scions and kasrkin. if scion command squad is your warlord, scions become battleline.
I'd rather pay 1 more every use, starting from 2.
In a scenario where a scion is your warlord you sort of pay a premium (the Scion command instead of Lord Solar) to have them as battleline. And it makes more sense in such a scenario.
You could also restrict Reinforcements further by having all reinforcements always arriving in your deployment zone (regardless of deepstike etc).
They at least could have reduced the cost to 1. If you are running Creed for Fields of Fire and Lord Solar good luck ever having 2 CP to actually run reinforcements now. I actively tried to save 2CP for reinforcements and all the other things going on in the game, it was very difficult to ever have that 2 CP for reinforcements
I think they should restrict it to not be the enemy deployment zone. With the new secret missions we could easily get a battleline unit there, or even our warlord if he was in the scion command squad.
Two CP is a lot now that Creed has been nerfed to costing one CP.
First if all, there's no such thing as a "munitorum command squad" so I have no idea what you're talking about. Secondly, none of the command squads can be brought back with Reinforcements, anyway
“Let’s write rules better than Games Workshop.” That’s not much of a challenge
Unending waves… The Most Blatant Case Of Fraudulent Advertising Since My Suit Against The Film "The Neverending Story". - Lionel Hutz
Based
The issue with re-enforcements for the guard was the respawning sentinel squad. Personally think that restricting it to just regiment infantry or even just battleline infantry.
I think this would fix itself regardless since I personally think that Sentinels having the Regiment keyword is going to be removed with new Born Soldiers. Maybe that’s pessimism based on the fact that any time Guard gets too good it seems GW wants to play whack a mole but that’s how I see it
I swear to the God Emperor, whoever wrote this 10.1 update for the Guard doesn't play Guard, just plays against guard: nerfed the only decent guard infantry/cavalry strat into the ground (and one that wasn't winning Guard tournaments), nerfed artillery into the ground, updated born soldiers to make anti-infantry tanks not get it vs infantry, anti vehicle infantry models not get it vs vehicles/monsters, failed to give it to Tank Commanders or fucking baneblades, but gave both anti infantry and anti vehicle to sentinels, and buffed the Rogal Dorn which needed no buff. Plus Leontus is still an absolute auto-include as they made Creed signifcantly worse.
It just makes no sense. The cynic would suggest they want to sell models. They make the most $ for points selling cheap as chips grunts. Yet somehow they're actively disincentivising that. All in all the guard probably came out even stevens due to having far less drawback for moving tanks around and the juicy new tank shock. The thing that shits me is just the lack of care or thought put into any of these changes. Makes me very concerned for what the codex will look like.
They just throw a change out there, see what happens and then see if they need to change it again. No play testing is occurring as they throw out these half-assed solutions and then have to release FAQ's to clarify the sloppy writing or unclear intent. I am really concerned that when a codex for Guard does drop, it is going to be another poorly thought out book that will need day one corrections. Thankfully, by the time that happens, 11th edition won't be far off and they'll invalidate the book like in 9th. I guess that's one minor perk to being near last is that you're not stuck with a horrible codex for long.
If it makes you feel any better, Imagine how I, a Tau/Kroot Player felt. Kroot Detachment: Reinforcements? Dead (And keep in mind, our Strat only let you respawn Hounds, Carnivores or Farstalkers). Pregame Redeploy? Only *Before* you know who goes first (even though the ability was JUST released). The detachment was 100% Built around these two abilities and was gutted by these changes.
I agree with the tank commander hate. Why so they hate the TC so much
This entirely. Whoever writes the rules for guard is either inept or malicious.
It really feels like GW is playing whack a mole with Guard metas. “Overlapping auras giving units ridiculous amounts of wounds and toughness? That’s fine. Guard are using their detachment to boost the only unit that would benefit? Nerf it. Now they’re using their best strategem to make up for how squishy all their units are? Can’t have that” I think sentinels are gonna lose that Regiment keyword when they realize that’s good too. It feels like the person making rules for Guard does not like the faction and wants it to not be very good.
Waiting for infantry detachment with correct reinforcements...
Tyranid unending swarm would like a word with you.
Was so fitting. The guard having waves of men
As a custodian (rip) who has not had their unit restoring stratagem nerfed, glorious.
Not sure if sarcasm lol
@@OverlordZephyros Which part?
@@janehrahan5116 lol!
As someone who plays against a friend who mains IG; love playing against him throwing his infantry at me. Guard winning through attrition is just thematic. Led to some nail bitting matches.
Even simpler, if the only thing they changed was to make it so that the reinforcements strat made it so they had to enter entirely within your deployment zone couldve fixed it
Your suggestion would create a “win more” effect where if you are already successful you will be winning even harder. That doesn’t usually create the best games.
I would prefer it to be limited to battleline. Maybe even with the restriction that it must arrive in your own original deployment zone. Elite units shouldn’t be plentiful anyway and reinforcements tend not to arrive from your enemy’s side of the battlefield, but rather be marched up to battle from your own rear positions.
Can we also change the Born Soldiers being lethal against vehicles and monsters vs non-vehicles and non-monsters be based on the strength of the weapon? Like strength 9 and above lethal vehicles and monsters and strength 8 and below lethal everything else? Seems better than rationalizing why lasguns on a chimera get lethals vs a land raider and a lascannons in an infantry squad doesn’t get lethals against a tank.
I would do the cut off at S6 and below. S8 includes melta weapons.
too wordy
My Kroot are also now crying avian tears from this change. Felt like their version of reinforcements was absolutely needed to stay in the game.
It was. This change, and losing the redeploy after knowing how goes first, kills the Kroot Detachment. They already lacked killing power, now they lack Killing power, staying power, and tactical flexibility/tricks. I had been running Hunting Pack this entire time and now its not even fun because its pretty much a loss before the first die is rolled.
I had a game Vs admech skitarii cohort with walker spam using my full infantry guard. Let me tell you, basically giving your opponent 40 free VP with cull the horde and assassinate is not fun, especially in combo with a global -1 to hit and basically no lethals. Mortar teams are also basically useless, and I'm not sure whether the Creed command blob is still worth it anymore
Having played with the limited reinforcements twice now it definitely feels like I have been freed up to use command points now because I am not constantly trying to have two during my opponents turn.
But also yeah this and the detachment change really was a slap in the face for pure infantry guard
I think your idea is a great solve for reinforcements! my friends also thought it was too op before and that they nerfed it a little too hard in the most recent update.
The 'nid reinforcment nerf was worse IMO. They have an entire detachment who's only purpose is to spam reinforcements and now you can't do that. Imagine the people who built an unending swarm army with thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of painting Gaunts and now it's just gone.
My guess will be, make it one CP, usable once a turn/Round, and each turn you use it, you increase the cost by 1 CP for 4 CP max.
Finally, some kind of decrease in cost when you use it on Battletline units, either -1 CP or Free once a game if you didn't change the starting cost.
Like that, it would certainly be more intersting while still being a cost to pay.
IF I was a designer, I would also make a detachment that permit you to use it on any infantry unit as if they were BATTLELINE.
Choise of fix....
1. the unit in reserve counts as in reserve as the 1st turn reserve so it can only come back in your deployment zone. unless you keep it off for extra rounds.
2. the starterjem can be used once per turn but only affects Battleline units.
it should be knotes that you should only be paying 1CP for the stratergy as most commandrers reduce the cost of a strtegem per round by ONE.
My fix, GW brings back Chenkov, make it a Strategem only he has on his datasheet, have it start 1 at 1cp but increase its cost by 1 after each use cause after a while some of the new recruits will notice that they are cannon fodder for that guy yelling SEND IN THE NEXT WAVE everytime.
Yes iam in favor for Strategems being on a unit card just like Age of Sigmar.
You could have kept it the same but only let them bring reinforcements outside their deployment zone. That way it felt like the guard/bugs kept marching one giant wave instead of surrounding you
I'm hoping it's a stop gap.
Hopefully when the codex drops, there will be a detachment that doesn't have born soldiers but has old school reinforcements
Unlikely since tyranids and tau kroot have codices but still got the same change
I've had several ideas for fixing reinforcements since getting into 40K at the start of 10th.
- Pretty much exact same power matrix style requirement you described.
- The reinforcement unit must be touching within 9" of an objective marker you control while still fulfilling normal reserves placement rules. This one is similar to power matrix but more specific in it's application.
- The reinforcement unit must touch within 9" of an infantry character while also fulfilling normal reserves placement rules.
- Restrict it to only battleline units.
I do think the power matrix style option is the best overall but I could see the others working pretty well depending on other changes GW might make.
Great idea makes so much more sense with fluff and mechanics. They could just make it that you cant bring on in enemies deployment zone aswell if they that worried about feels bad moments.
How about a basic idea from Horus Heresy: 1 CP on own DZ and 2 CP at neutral :).
Or twice each game limit.
I remember playing against kroot as tyranids and to avoid the kroot doing join the hunt, I went out of my way to avoid killing 4 different bricks of 20 kroot that were all reduced to about 6 models or less. Turn 4 they forced it by charging a unit of gene stealers at which point I went all out killing the rest so they could not bring back anymore.
I run Death Korps blobs with marshals. It’s really rare I reinforcements them more than once. They are insanely tough. I used to suicide scout sentinels forward for some fun artillery spam and move block then reinforce but now I’m running more tanks instead of artillery/tank mix so I don’t really need the scouts. I did reinforcements a unit of scions yesterday from my
Mech list.
I'd be tempted to not require a unit die.
Reinforcements! (1 CP)
At the end of your Movement phase, spawn a minimum sized Battleline unit, which may arrive as if by Strategic Reserves. It cannot arrive in the enemy deployment zone unless you control the objective there.
-
Keeps it basic infantry (or maybe a small Scions squad), and can exploit breakthroughs without relying on everyone dying.
I, like, agree with your opinion, man! I think Zone of Control could be a base game mechanic that can effect lots of stratagems.
You could balance it by making the reinforcement have a debuff, like +1 to hit or -1 to saves, it would make sense as the reinforcement knows that their just there to replace a dead unit so they would have a decrease in moral...
They buffed Guard but didn't actually want it to do too well, so nerfed it's previous crutches.
I'd be fine with that if they didn't treat certain factions the opposite way. They dial back certain OP factions with 60%+ win rates at a snails pace, but nerf Guard before we even play a game with new rules.
Just feels bad and pushes guard even more toward vehicle.
Some might like it, I do not.
As someone who enjoyed Infantry, it means I will probably have to use more Tanks and Bullgryns instead of swarming the table with Boots on the Ground.
If this were an issue of being over powered, I would have started the cost at 2cp and doing the +1 cp tax from there.
If this is about fixing the "feels bad" then I would nerf reinforcements to come from the deployment zone, i.e. coming in "from the back line". I think it is not competitive at that point, but keeps the theme on point.
Even though i havent played a game yet i miss send in the next wave from 8th vahallan strat
"Let's write rules better than Games Workshop!"
A dog with an arrow in its brain could write rules better than Games Workshop.
You're 1 negative Nancy in a million in this hobby. Play a different game system if you hate it
@@TriforceofJacob Lol okay champ. 10th is an absolute mess, and that's a pretty popular opinion. The rules writing is lazy, inconsistent, and entirely catered to competitive players. Maybe try not shilling for GW.
Battle line only. There fixed.
I agree. This change is what we need.
I know this is a huge nerf to pure infantry guard, but I still want to see you play it again, see how you adapt to the new paradigm
Just make reinforcements battle line infantry only. You immediately solve the reinforcements wall of walkers problem and the Kasserkin melta mine reloading problem. Also it’s battle line; you should have more men anyway
Allow each unit that's available for Reinforcements to only use it once per Battle
perhaps once per battle round and only restricted to no man's land? if units aren't being deepstriked into deployment zones so hastily maybe gw will chill out on the butchering of stratagems...just a thought
Should just have an increased CP cost with each use starting from 2CP (Creed is going to give you the first 1CP anyway)
On turn 1 and 2 the new units have to be within 9 inches of your table edge or within your deployment zone. Turn 3 - 12 inches or deployment zone. TURN 4 and 5 - 18 inches or deployment zone. That is my idea
Here is another idea on fixing this stratagem. start the reinforcements strat at 1 cp but add one cp cost each time after the first it is used. So if you use it 4 times it will cost 4 cp on the 4th usage. It will get progressively harder to use. If this is too easy then start at 2 cp and go up 1 after the 1st time it is used. Thoughts?
My vote would have been only battleline and always in your own deployment zone. Kasrkin and sentinels seemed wrong
I disagree on deep-strikes and so forth - I feel like the reason it is worded as a duplicate unit is to avoid “I forgot…” moments (or “no, I put these in reserve at the start…” moments) and messing with that causes problems of its own.
If you’re identifying the problem as being the interaction with strategic reserve rules, then the solution is surely to remove that interaction.
So rather than adding a duplicate unit in strategic reserve, why not deploy a duplicate unit immediately within six(?) inches of your board edge.
This makes them less efficient in later turns, prevents the home objective raid, and indirectly nerfs the stratagem as you’re deploying in your opponent’s turn - and if they still have the firepower, they can turn it on your new unit.
Lets change it completely.
At the start of the game, before deployment, you pick a unit from your army. That unit is your reenforcement reference.
For each 100 points, the strat costs 1 cp more.
Let's be honest, reinforcement needed a nerf. But I wonder why they did it so drastic instead of easing into it and see. Like limiting it to once per battle round and then only once per unit on top. Which would slow the amount (and honestly, I don't think it's baked into the points). And if that doesn't work, add that it's only within your own deployment zone.
It’s harder to keep track of.
My friends and I house ruled it that units brought in as reenforcement can't use the strategm. Been doing that for friendly games before the change and it works alright. We are a bunch of amateurs though.
They even nerf the inspired command strata because we can order our max order during the battle round, not our turn. So if you want to use it, you must save an order to use it with strata. To much nerf on the imperial guard. On 6 strata, 1 is not interesting because of th nerf of the arty, 1 because of the order, the reinforcement once per battle, fields of fire is now to much expansive because of the nerf of the abilities of creed, Armoured might is bad because it's only in the shooting phase... i'm so angry. Not only our artillery is nerfed. I hope they will really make a good dataslate with the astra.
Without watching the vid, here's how you fix it: Put it back the way it was.
"Let's write rules better than games workshop!"
Man, that just doesn't have the same weight as "Let's fix bayonet's! And charge right into today's video." Lol
I still think the reinforcements should still come in on turn 2. It would help someone who lost a squad that they really needed to keep on turn 1.
It will be fixed.
just make it once per battle round
GW needs to go to just making models and lore.
So, this is a whine, and it's honestly one I have whined several times, but I really wish GW would follow their own success, and dole out an additional detachment to a faction, when they they do these levels of update, especially when they have given us something of a road map, regarding upcoming releases, and that means we also have some ideas for which codices WON'T be out for a while. Sure not every book makes their faction great; Imperium factions, as an example, have been very hit or miss, but some factions only have one detachment, and even if, like Guard, that one detachment, with its units, can make several different play styles work, when they significantly nerf something, there can be precious little to fall back on. Maybe Guard aren't even the group that most needs a second detachment, but while I feel like they do have options, a fair number of those options have been kneecapped. They aren't flush with powerful infantry, and now they can't reinforce their mortals. Artillery isn't dead, but it's hardly going to have the footprint it used to. It's almost like they are pushing for tank spam, simply because it keeps the Guard turn short at a tournament, when they only have to move/shoot six things, instead of 120 dudes, spreading out, or clustering up, and now their infantry is mostly only good v other infantry, while tanks ate mostly only anti-tank, or we're back to basically a faction without an ability, and then numerous units just are that? I think Guard really could have used a second detachment, just so GW could be forced to depict how THEY envision Guard being run, since they are the ones who wrote the rules, made the points, and hefted the anointed nerf-hammer against whole segments of their index.
As for Reinforcements, I feel like it could have worked if, as said, it was more like the mechanics other detachments give, like Canoptic, or Swarm, but the Guard are paying CP, since it's not their detachment ability. Maybe, instead of 1/game, it could have been 1/1,000pts, sort of like HCL, and how many units they can port, each round. If I'm being honest, I didn't even consider that the problem was where you could spawn the new squad in; I entirely assumed it was the number of "free" dudes, or Sentinels, you could get, when you both should have 1,500, ir 2,000 pts.
At 2 cp is it even broken?
I’ve been playing unending swarms; I am sad about the change, and thematically it is a loss. I disagree with you about the reason for the change.
It makes sense to discourage extreme skew lists like the bugs you played, because most people can’t efficiently move 200+ models and it introduces greater potential for slow play etc. as well as tightening up the overall meta a bit so you don’t have to game plan against having to play against both your unending swarm list and imperial knights for instance.
GW seemingly has no interest in how players should play from behind. The secret objectives are as useless as gambits, reinforcement Strats have been basically soft patched out, the game at this point is about taking a turn 1/turn 2 lead and then just not making a drastic mistake. This is why some people complain that getting first turn is too big an advantage and it seemingly just keeps getting bigger as they slowly remove ways to play from behind which only benefits elite armies that can put massive turn 1 firepower and make big 10+” moves and dip in and out of reserves with deep strike.
Just change it to twice per game....
GW got it right. Bringing back units is always powerful in any game, so being able to bring back potentially one per turn every turn, that's way too good.
Half the strats Guard have are 2CP, the rest are pretty useless. Why even bother with stratagems beside the universal ones at this point? The detachment strats have to be good otherwise GW might aswell have not even written them at all. Reinforcements wouldn't be half as tempting if you had other good options for spending your CP.
Hybrid Guard, with 100 infantry (without Marshalls) isn't enough. Very strong coming in on the latter turns. Catachans 30 points, Infantry Squads 35 points, Krieg 40 points; or less, and no reinforcements. Everyone wins, fixed
And this GW gradient of 5 points and the new very low IQ requirement style of list building is very dumb.
GW always goes heavy-handed with nerfs like this. You really think they playtest any of this?
Too complicated, maybe they can make that as a detachment ability but not as a strategem.
You go away on holiday and you come back and GW has butchered your faction. Looks like its the Custodes team writing our Codex boys 😭 😭 😭
As someone who has played Guard a lot in recent times I personally found reinforcements unfun and annoying to play against. Not because of where the reinforcements can come on, that happens with reserves anyway and is just something to be aware of, but just it simply un-does your hard work, again, and again and again. I mean sure Guard are not super tough, but it still 20 wounds, it is still saves, wound rolls, hit rolls, Krieg for example are very tanky so it is not a walk in the park to kill 20 guard and to just see them be like, 'these are coming back on it a minute' is just frustrating. You don't even have to roll a dice or have some limit on the amount you can bring back, nope it is just 2cp and bam full health unit back. When it happens once it's like a bit annoying, when it happens the third or fourth or even fifth time (I've had guard players bring back 2 reinforcements in the same turn) it's just absurd to be honest. I get the point about nids and they have probably caught a stray from Guard, I don't think as easily farm CP nor are nids reinforcements as powerful as guard ones, who have access to special weapons or are scions or whatever (plus the absurdity of bring back potentially near 200 pts of walkers that are tough to kill with t8, 2+ save and like 20+ wounds in a squad). But I think the change to the Guard one was wholly needed imo because it just wasn't a fun stratagem to play against. It just made playing Guard tiresome and led to situations where you would consider not finishing off units so they couldn't be reinforced.
OK, I can't take it seriously when the person who loves Infantry-focused Guard lists, the person who, when running Tyranids, ran an Endless Multitudes, "purple carpet" list, says their wanting to be able to continue to use the Stratagem more than once a game isn't the reason they think GW's changes are bad and expects to be believed. I'd say I'll be back later, but I am not sure time will fix the problem here. Bye.
🫡🫡🫡
this is like people fixing nids before the balance data slate.
🦑🦑🦑🦑🦑🦑🦑🦑🦑🦑🦑🦑🦑🦑🦑🦑🦑🦑
With the greatest respect, I strongly disagree!
That's because I think the major flaw in mordians argument, is that he is not looking at this through the prism of the Pariah Nexus.
Now, if this nerf happened in the previous mission pack, I would agree with mordian with pretty much everything he said.
But the Pariah Nexus changes everything.
The new mission pack has a heavy influence of the new actions.
5/18 of the new secondary objectives are action based. 3/5 of those require two or more units to do an action.
Why is this important? Well, if you can bring back a unit every turn (or more!) then it gives the player far too much of an advantage.
Bringing back a unit so it can do an action is massive. It doesn't matter if it's 5 men or 20. Or even 3 sentinels. If that unit comes back and scores 4/5 VP. That can easily swing a game.
Reinforcement stratagem wasn't really strong before because of the damage dealt by the unit (though you could argue 3 armoured sentinels or a unit of kaskin/scions is strong). The reason why, is because your opponent can't stop you from bringing that unit on to score objectives.
Either through swarming a point, doing an action, or coming in on the enemy deployment zone turn 3 onwards. Hell, scions can deep strike turn 2.
The reinforcement stratagem only being once per game I think is still very strong. Mainly because your opponent can't do much to stop you.
Especially in the later turns where every unit left really counts for doing actions.
With the new upgrade to the detachment rule, mass Lasgun fire is dangerous. Lethals to all infantry dramatically increases the damage output of the unit. Sure, you have to get sixes. But that isn't too hard if you can come on within rapid fire range of a target.
FRFSRF is far more powerful an order now than Take aim now.
So if you could bring back 20 guys a turn, you could very quickly hose down enemy infantry units. Regardless of toughness.
My last point, the cost of 2 CP is hardly a real cost for guard. Or Tyranids. As both factions have easy access to getting an extra CP a turn.
Virtually all guard lists have solar, so you can use reinforcement stratagem and a 1 CP strat every single battle round.
Which means a guard player can (and will) use reinforcements every turn. On the later turns the opponent will really struggle to screen out the board.
For some opponent factions, they struggle to screen out the board normally. Let alone when it's turn three onwards and both sides are battered.
Give the Pariah Nexus a few battles, and I reckon you will understand where I am coming from 😉
Keep up the good work Mordian!
Only 1 army should be bringing models back full stop and that's my beloved crons, why should some armies get 500 points extra over a game compared to armies that can't reinforce, either everyone can bring units back or no one can would be better
There should have been a "Silver Tide" detachment...
nah
Lmaoooo