The Right Way to NETDECK | The Command Zone 181 | Magic: the Gathering Commander/EDH Podcast
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Show Notes:
We've gotten a lot of questions about netdecking, so here are 5 helpful tips to get you on the road to building the best decks AND keeping your original flavor intact.
Deck Brewer's Worksheet:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
What We Mentioned on the End Step:
Giveaways! Follow @DXPOfficial on Instagram, Twitter, and/or Facebook to enter :)
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Huge thanks to Geoffrey Palmer for providing some of his amazing Living Cards animations for our videos. Follow him here:
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Commander/EDH Official Rules, Banlist, Forums, and more:
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How I brew a commander deck
1) Find a legendary I like
2) Put a whole bunch of cards that seem good with the commander
3) Go look online for other cards that I missed
4) Try to turn 300+ cards into 100
5) Wind up with a horrible janky mess
6) Repeat
RotatingMagnetGuy I'm building my first commander deck and feel like I'm trying out your method. Fun fun fun
RotatingMagnetGuy Seems about right
*Zangief immitation* Then you must build stronger muscles, friend!
is there honestly any other way to build one haha
I feel like you explained why commander is a thing lol
I netdecked my first commander list and I don't feel bad about it. I was terrified to brew my own deck. However, as I have become more comfortable with the game and the cards, my list now looks quite different from how I started. In commander, I think that is exactly what people should do.
I think the whole point of deckbuilding is to take a decklist that is already good then tune it to how you like it. I built my first commander deck from scratch and not only was it bad but i wasted so much money. Always do some research and checkout decklists
But why you still are using someone else's decklist
Maxwell Balkema we arent the point is to have a starting point then adjust it. I bought 2 of the commander pre cons and they look nothing like out of the box. In the same way decks that ive built around other deck lists now all are unique in and of themselves
You can add custom categories to your decks on tappedout...
Personally When I’m interested in building a deck I look at the decks other people have built(aka more experienced magic players) and take their advice and then build my own deck.
Or look at the directions people build decks and do something different.
Ferdi the Tank because Im gonna look at an aggro built deck because I love playing aggro and build a control variant of it......wtf??
Perfect timing on this video!
I recently discovered this podcast and have been getting into commander... started with precons and now, for the first time I've been attempting to brew my own (so I've been totally binge-watching all old episodes! lol)
netdecking certainly helps to get ideas and lets you access the global "think tank" - but then you can take whatever info you want from that...
Thank you and keep up the amazing work guys!
My very first commander deck was netdecked. And now it's basically nothing like that original list. Nothing wrong with starting out with a netdecked list.
Especially if you can build a commander for cheap off the bat. See him you like him/her and then buy completely in with incremental upgrades.
Slowly adding and changing a deck is perfectly valid and a great way to your deck how you want. And, you can find some cards you weren't thinking of using before!
Rebecca Guay isn't pronounced "goo-ay" it's pronounced "gay". I've met her on multiple occasions at conventions and had (years ago) taken a class with her instructing. I asked this on day one. Now you know too!
*obligatory ha gaaaayyyyyyy coment*
(I’m sorry, i had to)
@@jeannebouwman1970 i envy you, i wrote once because i love her art and she answer!!, i always suppose that would not happen.
Jimmy is my favorite Disney princess
He's the Disney princess of our hearts...but screw Disney right now lol
Ironically, he's now an actor in the live action Mulan movie
You can already hear Desolator complaining!
"How dare you use this free information to inform your decisions! Everyone should spend hours brewing decks like me! I am the prime MTG player"
One of those?
Yup!
ForeverLaxx one problem, you can't
I love all of your podcast/videos. I really like how you do not have ads randomly in the middle of your videos. Good job!
great show guys, keep up the good work...in my experience, I use netdecking as a support/complement to get known about cards i might didn’t think of for my deck, decks are build knowing your meta and as we know there are different decks to beat on each group, so copying decks might not work for you on the group you are playing, what I do is separate on an excel sheet by creatures, instants, sorceries, enchantments, Planeswalkers, artifacts, lands, and mayboard this option is where I enlist the cards I didn’t think and got me interested.
You guys have helped me a lot with my saskia deck, I found that Saskia is very hard to build. There's sooo many different directions you can go and your videos have definitely helped me become better focused and make my decks have a clear goal.
Me and my 3 friends made our first 4 EDH decks in 1 in the morning and somewhat under influence of couple beers. We only had our collections and we made Surrak Dragonclaw, Zurgo Helmsmasher, Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker and Arcanis the Omnipotent legendary creatures as our commanders. We played until the morning and almost got into a fight. Surrak deck steamrolled over us all... ( Also one of the four is named Mirko. It is a real name in my country. )
Just subscribed! Getting back into Magic after a 5 year hiatus. Will be watching a lot of your stuff. Thanks for the resources and great content!
I used to go crazy with spreadsheets while I was brewing but then realized that you can create custom categories on tapped out and set the deck to default to displaying them. What makes it great is that you can give a card multiple categories and it will appear in all of them. To me its the easiest way to balance all the effects you want in your deck and keep track of curve and mana requirements. Plus it reduces the amount of copy pasting I have to do.
I love the giveaway's! Not just the possibility of winning, but you guys showing what it is actually like because not all of it can be accessible at the time of the video. I love your content. Always fun and informative. Keep up the great work! Because of this channel, I am starting to build my first commander deck!
I only recently came back to Magic, EDHREC, and your podcasts have helped me locate cards from sets I didn't even know about. Sure, I may have tossed more money at my Naya deck than my playgroup would enjoy, but I've still been defeated by cheaper decks. Which make me go back and look through my lists and see what I need to improve upon or if it was just bad luck.
Ive had great success using tappedouts custom tags system for cards. Whenever I add a card to the list i give it a tag, usually to do with its function or reason to be in. It gives you a total number and a list of all tags youve added. Lile Sol Ring for ramp, or Hedron Archive for both.
Hi, what I do is work with what I have first, build the V1 out of my existing cards, also divide by type, colour etc. Then tweak it then add according to the deck's motto. Great show
while listening i wasn't building a EDH deck but i was continuing to design my uncommon cube which i use similar tricks to find cards.
I also bought 5 more packs of Eclipse sleeves, im double sleeving all my EDH decks with them.
My first edh deck was a netdeck off budgetmtgdecks. I then added all my good cards that fitted the theme to it. I am a fan of old cards and their artwork so I bought some old cards that fitted the theme; alongside some essentials. I then spent ages trading for foil basics and I am nearly finished upgrading it. Love the deck and pretty much all the cards have changed from the netdeck, but it gave me a starting point
I think the quality of CZcams deck tech'rs have really gotten good and in many cases see what cards and why helps me make choices and think through the brewing process.
I just got into mtg and this was the first place that really got me into the game and I have been having a blast playing it
I have a similar Google sheet system I've been using that tallies the number of cards I have in different categories (ramp/draw/removal/etc). I also plug in prices while I'm building so I can get an idea how much the whole thing is gonna run. For searching out cards, I like using Scryfall. It's really easy to use and I've been able to search up some weird, specific cards when all I could remember about them was a handful of rules text or a type and a set.
Thank you for the consistent and fun content!
just got into magic and your guys' stream - love the content!
How to netdeck:
-go to edhrec;
-search your prefered commander;
-click on "view avarage deck";
- build that exact deck;
-do the same every new set so you can keep your deck up to date;
-????;
-profit.
I think the "view average deck" is a good starting resource, but if you're not going to take time to refine it, what's the point?
Thats the joke.
... and then your deck will suck because EDHrec is full of terrible recommendations.
Just a heads up for everyone using tappedout, you can tag your cards as you add them so they can be sorted by the tags through the decklist. It's not massively advertised but it's helped me a ton!
I liked your comments about v1, v2, v3. I tend not to even sleeve the deck up until it's v3. I've got too many decks as it is, so unless I've invested that much time and emotions in building it, I'm not going to sleeve it up. My 4c Gitrog deck took me 5 revisions until I bothered sleeving it up.
The way I use the internet is to learn about what cards exist. I'm a relatively new magic player so learning about old cards tends to only happen when someone plays them or I see them online. Gets the creative juices flowing
Absolutely love EDH rec. It's the best ever for finding new cards.
I play other card games in addition to MTG, and I must say, this is so helpful across all card games. It's a way to be organized, and save money! You guys are awesome
Last thing lol: I come from a REALLY competitive meta (I know everyone says that but seriously, mana drain and timetwister were commonplace) They are amazing deckbuilders. That being said you couldn't find their lists anywhere online. No one figured out the optimal build like they did. They don't netdeck because MOST of the decks submitted aren't optimal and many are just BAD. The point is: START with a list online then you'll have modify it to make it perfect.
Mana Drain and Timetwister don't make a deck competitive. They just make it expensive. Most competitive EDH players collaborate with each other extensively to brew up new decks and test and improve existing ones and will happily share lists. Two heads are better than one.
as just a lil tip. can put custom category tags in tapped out, have to do it in the edit menu, just put a hashtag/pound symbol and name a category #removal or #carddraw then can sort the deck by custom categories. Lil janky in that you need to do it manually in the txt area. but great to visualize the deck afterward
I LOVE your new background especially the windows, looks great!
I made Josh’s Rishkar deck and use only Guay forests. So excited to foil them out.
Jimmy, because you are playing Gishath, I hope you win.
I really really like looking at old tournament lists/digging into forum primers when I'm building an edh list tbh, legacy, old standard, german highlander, whatever's there... after I've keyed in on what I want to do (like, for example, "I want to make an Opposition based blue/green list") It could be useful to look up successful resource denial decks from old standards/eternal formats to get some good pieces for interaction, or a redundant effect, or a card with a largely complimentary effect to your main game plan. The Internet's a great resource for finding things that really just make a deck run smoothly.
It kills me that Ultra Pro is a sponsor and you talk about the eclipse sleeves like they are even better than Dragon Shields but yet they DON'T SELL THEM IN PACKS OF 100!!! How can they sponsor a EDH podcast and not even sell a product for what they sponsor!!!
John Cantrell truth
I plan on buying 5 packs so it hits a multiple of 100.
they are kinda better than dragon shields though even prof agrees
This is the single thing keeping me from trying them. Sell a 50 pack so I can buy two to hit 100.
when ultra pro is better then dragon shield. about damn time they stepped up their game.
I just noticed the animation outside your window... love it
love the show guys. Keep up the good work!
I love deckstats.net interface for adding cards. The hotkeys and predictive card name search makes deckbuilding easy.
33:56 Ohhhhh this happens to me all the time. There are so many cool cards in Magic that it's so difficult to discipline myself to focus on a single theme.
Tappedout does a good job at ordering cards if you know how to do it. Like, instead of adding "1x Hedron Archive", you type "1x Hedron Archive #Draw #Ramp" and when you view the deck, if you sort by custom categories, you'll see a "Draw" category and a "Ramp" category, and both will contain Hedron Archive. A bit wordy, but when you've got many gimmicks going on you need to track it's really useful.
Jimmy! For Gisharth, consider Sylvan Tutor as a second way to cheat a dino on top for your general :)
Just to add, you can also make your own categories on TappedOut which I find really useful for cutting stuff out, though it has to be done manually.
Great vid as always guys!
Love you guys, keep up the great work
I can't give this one enough thumbs up guys, thank you and keep up the good work!
those lands are beautiful - i honestly want to buy a ton of them just to own
As for the deckbuilder i am using deckstats dot net. There you can enter your own categories so it shows them however you like it, so I usually make categories for land, ramp, planeswalker, draw/tutor, utility, removal and creatures.
it will also tell you if cards are from future sets :)
I built a Nath of the Gilt-Leaf deck using Edhrec and it was miserable. It was powerfull, but not fun.
So i started swapping discard for carddraw (sadistic hypnotist for temple bell e.g.) and now its enjoyable.
Someone at my lgs told me about Lorwyn lore and it made me think about a "great aurora"-theme-deck, where "harvester of souls" is the twisted version of "soul of the harvest" e.g. I'm open for any suggestions. :)
I use mtg tracker app to build and play test. Pretty awesome because it breaks down your deck by card type, built in advanced search, and the play test option is nice.
I tend to build decks like so:
0. Add 38 Wastes
1. Decide upon win condition, and add those cards
2. Add cards to enable that win con (tutors, draw)
3. Add cards to protect the enablers and to interact with opponents board (Counterspells, removal, stax)
4. Add at least two back up win cons. Less support from the enablers, but ideally synergistic
5. Look at average CmC of deck and add ramp cards as needed and cut Wastes
6. Based on colour balance, change the Wastes into a land base
7. Goldfish - maybe switching in alternate win cons to see which ones plug into the deck most seamlessly
The balance of the above steps obviously differs, however I like to approach it in this order; building from the core outwards
Hey guys, great show! I often use the worksheet strategy when deckbuilding, but I also find it very difficult to interpret sometimes. I mean, more often than not you have cards that function in multiple categories (a simple example is Zendikar Resurgent being both Ramp, Draw and ultimately Payoff. Most planeswalkers and "command-style" cards are also very common and versatile in function). Do you have any hints on how to optimize card selection in tricky cases?
Jimmy, is there one SNES for Command Zone and one for Feast of Fiction or one shared between contests?
LOVE your guys show!!!
boi
vince s i was first and felt the need to comment
Interesting episode. Thanks for providing so much info guys.
The G 3/3 creature you opened, that ramps your opponent, seems really bad xD
I've used the 7x9 or 8x8 rule. It's the idea that you get 9 play sets to make up a 60 card deck, but now you need 7 instead of 4. (And 8x8 is about the same and easier to remember.) So you make about 9 or 8 groups of cards and then pick the best 7 for that group. Groups can be changed (I have like a misc category for random good stuff that don't fall into others) and multiple groups can be the same (really need card draw? Have 4 groups devoted to it!).
Those lands are REALLY NICE!
Love your videos thank you. Keep it up
Really useful topic to Talk about. Going to check my future yidris infect deck with this... Something sheet thing I kinda got lost, lmao.
On tappedout you can designate cards to custom categories and have the deck page sort by them, so you don't need the spreadsheet
23:40 You can put "# " on tapped out and changing the Default category with custom categories (Like: Phyrexian Arena #Draw), hope it'll help
Hey guys, on Tappedout, you can add categories to cards and sort by custom categories. No need for a spreadsheet. Just put #draw or #tutor after the card. You can add multiple categories to a card too. If it's multiple words, use an underscore, #board_wipe.
You can use custom category s on tapped out by doing "1x Sol Ring #ramp #artifact" that would put it in 2 categories artifact and ramp. You use the drop down to change to custom categories
my favorite card that goes into every deck that runs blue is Soothsaying. It lets you X: look at the top X cards of your library, which is amazing late or early game, because if you have the mana and don't like anything, pay 3UU and shuffle your deck. and I found it on gatherer, by searching enchantments that look at the top, because I couldn't afford a Sensei's, and now my LGS uses Soothsaying more than Sensei's because it is affordable.
I'll often just google what kind of cards I'm looking for and then look at the images to find some. I'm also super guilty of buying cards to make the deck and then buying cards for it later and taking them out. but I also really like to play the decks as soon as possible, and its easier for me to see what is needed that way. the cards I take out I just put into a trade binder to either be used in other decks I build, or to trade to my LGS for store credit to get other cards. not the same value, but after a while you don't notice the build up, and then its nice to see discounted stuff while also helping out the store.
Maybe I am misunderstanding an issue. How is net decking different than watching a deck tech video on here or any other youtube mtg chanel and using it. I am knew to mtg and it's super helpful. I like learning the combos from experienced players
You can actually categorize your cards in TappedOut by including categories at the end of the card names as you're adding them. For example, if you format your card name like this:
1x Gisharth, Sun's Avatar #CardAdvantage #DinosaursMatter
then Gisharth will appear in both the "CardAdvantage" and "DinosaursMatter" groups when you sort by category. I like it much more than a standard spreadsheet system, but it is definitely a subject of personal preference. Just wanted to let you know the option is there if you ever wanted to try it out!
New to the group, love the content👍👍
As someone who is still fairly new to Commander (been playing for about 6 plus months), researching one edhrec and gatherer coupled with a bad memory of remembering or misremembering cards, netdecking helps. I still build the decks I have from scratch like my Alesha and Yasova fun decks aka "pillowfort you're fucked deck" (torpor orb, winter orb, ghostly prison, stasis, blind obedience, etc). My Kess deck is my pseudo- Nekusar deck which is so much fun to play because it can be unpredictable.
Totally agree with the comment Josh made about being able to pilot a (net-decked) deck effectively... Anyone can buy the best deck available, but it isn't going to equal instant success - you need to have a firm grasp on how the deck plays. With that in mind, I have no problem with people netdecking. Honestly, If you want to buy the best deck and not practice with it, then come to game night and expect to not get wrecked, go for it :)
Just a heads up in order to use the spreadsheet you can also just select File and then make a copy.
i wonder what the command zone thinks about desolator magic. they have very different styles and doctrines. i would be curious to hear they're opinion
I love the vids, I'm just waiting for game knights because it's so fun to see who will be the guest star, or if there will be someone new to the show. I mostly love to see the decks everyone is playing, and just too see it all ends, via annihilation, or just pure randomness. I also love to see everyone's death pose or their reaction to getting killed or board wiped. Keep up the Good Work!!!
I just started watching and playing commander about a month ago, and I instantly fell in love with the channel!
I do like to netdeck with most formats to some extent but part of what makes commander extra fun is being able to create a deck that suits your personality/playstyle.
Tapped out can do the categories you are talking about. You just add #CATEGORYNAME after the card or above the column of cards. Then on set the default view to categories. I do this all the time. No need for spreadsheets, just put categories in your tapped out.
Hey Comand Zone you can use Tapped out the same way By when you add a card to the deck put # what it does in the deck so
x1 doom blade #Removel
that gives it a catagory to do
I like net decks because it gives information to you that you didn’t have before . And once you have this info from the internet more ideas begin to flow
I LOVE to organize cards! I will organize all the cards!
I prefer to use Deckstats to build my decks. Also it's funny that you mentioned Zur because I have been brewing a cycling deck for him but haven't fully committed to it yet.
I don't mind net-decking to the extent that it helps get people started for lists. There are some obvious includes people might not know exist. For example, if I was making a Grixis Marchesa deck, of course I would include Flayer of the Hatebound in most cases - but if I didn't know that card existed, net-decking is a great way to learn about other cards. If Flayer was in my binder, it's a pretty obvious include. Sites like EDHREC are great for hastening the process, which is pretty much what Josh says around 15:00.
I want to say I love you show very inspiring
Love the mission statement idea might have to start incorporating that into my deck building more often. I wanted to mention that tapped out allows you to do what you've done with your google sheet without having to swap between the two. In tapped out if you create a custom category for you cards by typing "#CategoryName" after a card name example: 1x Counterspell #CounterMagic, you can display your deck list by you customer category under the drop down "type" tab by changing it to organize your list by custom category. Example :tappedout.net/mtg-decks/kefnet-the-mindful-2dh/
Those giveaways though... good work guys. Always fun.
the spreadsheet I use allows cards to be in multiple categories, which I find very helpful. It's especially helpful in finding cards that don't pull their weight like JAD creatures (Just A Dude) with no useful abilities.
Do u think an Admiral Beckett pirate edh deck could be good? I want to make one focusing on having evasive pirates and stealing people's stuff (possibly saccing them as well) but i don't think there is an adequate number of strong pirates for edh.
I also wanted to say that i got into EDH because of your videos that are super informative, well explained and also fun (Game-Knights FTW). Really happy to see your channel grow up so fast u definitely deserve it keep it up!!
Kyle Savage I was originally going to make Gishath, but the Ixalan Bundle I bought had a lot of the good pirates. Then I figured The Admiral could be an absolute blast to build. Steal things, turn them into Pirates with Arcane Adaptation, and equiped them with either the Scythe of the Wretched to both motivate against blocks or steal the blocker. Similarly, I'd have Unscythe for similar reasons, although the blocker would be exiled and you get a zombie (pirate with Arcane Adaptation. Also, Admiral Becket Brass with Unscythe is basically Cervantes de Leon from Soul Caliber when he was possessed by Soul Edge. The most important thing with the deck is finding ways to turn stuff you steal into Pirates with Conspiracy type effects (Xenograft, Arcane Adaptation, Conspiracy).
Jeffrey Krismer this sounds crazy fun lol I would love to see a decklist
Jjdude101 Haven't quite finished it yet. I'll let you know when it goes up
What would be the best place to post and edit it. I want to be able to see Mana curve. I haven't gotten the chance to listen to the podcast yet.
I built it. I only had a few pirates the rest is clones and stealing (blatant thievery) type cards
I'm a fan of net-decking what you describe is the definition. I use Tapped-Out, Edhrec, watch The Command Zone, and Tolarian Academy, TheManaSource, and read articles online whether it's about edh in general, or a specific commander, or a certain type of deck I wish to create.
Also, I ask for advice from friends, even though I'm reluctant to do so because that's giving them more information about my deck. Giving them time add cards to counter my deck.
Now, do I just add in all the cards I'm told to? Not necessarily, but I want to know any cards that people think would be good to be put in the deck. These ideas may be something new that I never thought of before. I personally wouldn't accept the "main meta" for the commander if I plan to do something else.
A great app for deck building is called "Decked Builder" it has a list of every card and there are so many filters. You can store many decks that you built and it is great
Something people forget about with netdecking, particularly with newer players in something like Commander, is that Magic is an extremely huge and intimidating game. For a lot of people there is just too much to think about and keep track of. I've only been playing a bit under a year and I fully admit to being bad at deckbuilding so websites like that help take a lot of the intimidation and uncertainty out of it.
For the "categories", you can use TappedOut's custom categories too
I think this brings up a special dichotomy withing magic. There are two distinct aspect of the game, making the deck and playing the game. Some people are more skilled and find more enjoyment in "brewing" new decks. They typically excel in limited and casual formats. Others prefer the actual game play more and they do better in constructed. I've found that brewers will often look down on net-decking and "players" tend to favor it. I prefer brewing, but I don't think it's fair to "look down" on someone who prefers playing. They are having fun differently than me.
I bought a box didnt get the burnning sun avatar but I got a foil her treasure map with a special art on the back it's really cool bc I have one not foil and they look different but the same card.
The name of the song by RAtM is Wake Up. I used it as my alarm clock for many years.
those packs look cool
is there any way to watch polaris primetime online in the UK, officially that will support the show?
You can check out a full episode on their CZcams channel at czcams.com/users/dxpofficial
There's a difference between finding inspiration online and straight netdecking... but thumbs up for thinking your good because you can beat your friends with a deck that's not even your own.
In defense of the brewer complaining about netdecking, you guys sort of strawman'ed and false dichotomy'ed the situation. Brewers may also not care so much about not being competitive, they may also see the unpopular solution to metas that nobody cares about because of the lack of superficial appeal of some decks. So yes, sometimes brewers do have solutions (we see them often in tourneys) and yes, sometimes the perpetuation of netdecking culture will cause less brewing to happen, leading to a more stagnant meta where the possibilities of competitive decks are ignored.
You may be sponsor add heavy in your shows. But I apreciatte you give all that things away! Keep the good work guys