Commander Politics: Deals & Alliances | The Command Zone 209 | Magic: the Gathering EDH
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- čas přidán 9. 05. 2018
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Show Notes:
We've all done it. Nearly every game of multiplayer Magic features some kind of deal or alliance between players. The question is: are these types of negotiations helping you or hurting you? How can you improve this aspect of your game and up your win percentage? Watch and find out!
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Avengers: Infinity War
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My greatest deal was when I was in the lead and my friend offered me pizza if he could kill the other player by himself. That was the best deal I've ever made.
I'm not sure if this counts a deal, because I had no way to win the game, but here's the story:
Me and my boyfriend played with a mutual friend and my boyfriend got so far ahead in a life gain deck where he had a card that said "Target player looses 50 life, I loose 50 life" (I believe it was an activate ability on an artifact, but I'm not sure - I'm new to the game and so I don't remember all card names etc.) - at this point my boyfriend played it and had 75 life and said: "whoever attacks me dies to this" and so I say to our friend: "okay listen don't kill my stuff now, I know my hand/deck can't win from here and he can only kill one so I'm gonna attack next turn - that's the only way he doesn't win" (as a side note my boyfriend always wins so when I saw a chance for someone to kill his win streak I just wanted him to loose xD). My friend won the game and highfived me after agreeing that none of us had a chance otherwise xD
(PS: sorry if my English is bad - it's not my first language)
Maybe - I know he has a card with Æ in the name. I've only played for about 2 months of Magic so I'm not sure.
That was definitely ætherflux reservoir. Josh used it in a game knights episode. It's good, and does exactly what you described
Your English is great! And I hope you've stuck around in magic
@@mattd3978 I hardly play it anymore to be honest - not because I don't like the game, but because my friends live so far away now. I want to teach my mom how to play commander though!
@@GubbiGap I understand, that's been me for a long time. I've mostly taken to playing online, but recently met a couple folks and hopefully I'll be able to play with them before too long. And yay gaming with Mom!
One of the best "variants" of commander I ever played was where you could block any attack, even one at another player. Creates SO MUCH politicking.
My friends and I thought this was legal when we first started playing casual constructed. To this day, I think that's the most fun I've had playing Magic.
Sam Krygsheld It's such a subtle rule change, but it changes the way the game is played on a level that people have to build decks around it.
It's always been called "cross blocking" when I first started playing. Definitely my favorite variant rule. It adds so much to a game!!
Almost always a house rule for me. Ha, ha!
@@jackhill3273 I like this thread, when I actually get to play in person I think I'll actually see if the playgroup is game to try it once
Wait... Jimmy Wong was on Price is Right? AND HE WON THE FINAL SHOWCASE SHOWDOWN?!?! Doooooope!
My brother once texted everyone in our playgroup individually before we played and tried to get them to all make alliances with him against everyone else and it ended up making everyone kill him first. There was much salt to be had....
Wow
Good friend group to all be chaotic.
The social aspect is one of my favorite things about Commander. Being able to Wheel and Deal with people and to have fun doing it really helps up the excitement factor for me. It's why I prefer multiplayer formats as compared to 1v1. Same with why playing in person is superior to playing Online for me. A great episode!
It was fun to hear about Brawl but I'm really glad we're back to the regular content. Thanks for the great episode guys!
Jimmy: "Bit of a quick episode"
Me: Looks at time .... "is it?"
I think u mean izzet
I played my first commander deck (Jodah's Exotic Pet Shop) a few days ago. (It was five colors) It was against 4 people. I never thought I was going to politician, At least not in my first time. I ended up bringing out zacama mid-late game. I started to destroy the dragon players enchantment and he had A LOT. He said he's going to kill zacama next turn. As he said that, the mono black burn player had cast out 2 enchantments. He had chainers's torment and the eldest reborn. (I ran purely legendary creatures and a few good ones were in the grave) It was at that moment I told the other player who was going to kill zacama to not kill zacama for the next 4 turns so that I can destroy the mono black players enchantments and in return i wouldn't use zacama to destroy the dragon players enchantments. Long story short, I got rid of the mono black players stuff as well as killing him ( I made another deal to ask the dragon player not to kill me the turn after getting rid of the black players enchantments because I said i could kill the black player) and board wiped with urza's ruinous blast leaving me with legendaries to kill the dragon player I made a deal with. He said I couldn't use zacama, not a board wipe ;)
Sucrose Mother 4 turns immunity is a lot! With my playgroup i am known to be a good politician and no one trusts my decks because i always have some crazy shenanigans. I never broke a deal still people become very careful with making deals with me because i tend to win out of nowhere. ;) politics are a very very fun way to win games.
Ace Adam indeed
Sugar Mama? I need some Lions eye diamonds :/
Kyle Motty Sorry hun, my supply says they're out :(
Damn dude! Well played!
I love the animated Cabal Stronghold in the background. Looks great!
In Commander, you can always add another dimension to your game: roleplay.
You have a commander that often dictates your deck's identity ... why not also use it as your persona for the game? Just make sure people know.
So when you pull out your Nicol Bolas control deck and you maneuver into a position of power ... people will know that deals with you will always be dangerous at best and never a sure thing.
But when you play Azor control, people will know your word is a contract that will never be broken.
And who even takes the Squee player seriously? They are only up to do what seems fun at the moment.
My decks are all about this and I still forget to do it. I don't play as the commander, I play as the one above them.
That sol ring intro was sick!
The favorite deal I've made was against a Selesnya Mirri deck and a mono-green Ezuri elves deck. I was playing Kumena merfolk with a lot of tapping and untapping stuff. The Ezuri just plopped out a ton of powerful creatures with trample, but it couldn't really get through Mirri because you can only attack that player with one creature as long as she is tapped. So I made a deal to untap Mirri with Fatestitcher (thats for you Josh) if he didn't attack me for one turn. He agreed and attacked the Mirri player, killing him. He continued to play out some more creatures, then tapped one of them to gain life equal to the number of elves he controlled (which was a ton). In response I Cyclonic Rift'ed, bouncing like 30+ creatures and various enchantments back to his hand. On my turn I tapped and untapped a lot of stuff with a Wake Thrasher out, making it huge, and swung in for lethal. Not only the best deal I ever made but also the best Cyclonic Rift I ever played.
Remember: Spay or Neuter your commander decks if they're too powerful!
Always double clarify a deal where someone asks you to "take care of something" as if they're going to win in a turn rotation. Be sure if you're taking / making that deal you get something HUGE in return. Undermining that aspect will usually end up with them biting you in the ass. I've grown to try and make deals that have them ignore me / my board for a turn or TWO if they really need something taken care of that bad.
I made a threat (not a serious one) that if anyone attacked me for lethal, I would spoil infinity war. I won lol.
Main topic starts at 6:03. You're welcome.
Love the channel. Huge NFL fan and MTG player so was awesome watching both things brought together. Thanks for the amazing videos. Also that playmat is amazing. Keep it up fellas please.
Great stuff as always guys! My gym routine is a bit easier when I can listen to the podcast while suffering 😆
Deck Builder’s Society good suggestion. Tried listening to it while lifting. Pretty good idea. Thx.
Nerd out whilst you work out!
Haha the part of "Who are you going to attack" to say to your opponents. I did that from turn 3 to the end of the game against every opponent because of a teferi's protection that I had in hand 😅
The thumbnail for this video is so perfect
Is that a card illustration? If so, which one?
underhanded designs
Great content as always. Watching this channel has upped my commander play big time. Past two events at my local store I took the win at my table, ran grand pappy markov and a homebrew fungus deck. Both times alliances and deals played very important roles. Keep making great videos guys
I left Arena is running in the background and the music is making this episode very exciting :)
I really love your commentary when you're trying to explain something further. It's hilarious.
i love this side to the game of deal making, i have made a solid reputation of never being able to be completely trusted when i have cards in my hand where i like this as it throws an element of suspense into the game where the table doesn't know if i am going to follow through with the deal or the aid they need i've never not enjoyed playing a game with this suspense to the games my play group and i play. Definitely more shady than what you guys treat the deals and alliances. love what you guys do keep it up.
The best deal I every had (in a super casual game with janky decks) is when I had an insane boardstate, and asked two people not to touch me while I killed the other. I basically was able to take them on one at a time because everyone was so scared of me. They called me the mafia
Perfectly synchronized clap fellas at 1:11:52 . You earned that like/thumbs up from me. Love the vids. Keep up the good work.
I just want to say that even though these sort of 'podcast' type vids don't quite get as many views as your Game Knights vids do, I still very much appreciate that you consistently put your best work into editing and polishing them. I feel like I can listen to this while I work on my college thesis, or put the books down and actively watch the vid and not just listen to the audio. Keep up the great work!
Well, that's an evening saved.
Love you guys :*
I absolutely love the thumbnail it's so fitting for this
Very nice video, hope to learn some of these tips.
I'd love to see a deck tech on Jodah for edh!
I had that one fried, who was really bad at politics.
For example, he got Kaalia of the Vast out and i asked him during my turn if he was planning to attack me with the Kaalia (I had no potential blockers out at the time). He responded with: "I don't know. We will see."
I even told him, that it was to risky for me to let Kaalia live if she (+ potentially fatal creature from hand) could get a big hit on me. But he still said that he would decide/announce who to attack at the exact time he does it.
So i played Toxic Deluge.
And Kaalia died.
And he was salty for me killing his commander "Over and over again".
markus wagenleitner I had the same thing happen with our Kaalia player a week ago. XD The salt was real.
Any one else know Jimmy is also on a cooking channel, Feast of fiction?
The relic tokens are really great. I bought some and carried the around for a full week because I really like looking at them.
Both clap and cross their arms at the same time at the end of the video XD. Ah! and the information was very helpful to! :D
One of the most informative and useful episodes these guys have ever dropped. They should honestly re-upload this as if it were new and so many more people would learn from this awesome podcast. Thank you boys. You're the GOATs
One of my favourite deals to make is to go to the control player and say ‘let this resolve, I promise you it is not coming at you’ this normally happens in my rg wort deck or my etalli deck
Hey Im running a Melek Izzet Paragon commander deck based on wizards so I'm running Docent of Perfection. My question is does playing copies of spells count as casting and would it still trigger. For example say I have Sigil tracer and Docent of Perfection. I cast a spell Docent triggers and then I activate Sigil would Docent trigger again? Because if it doesn't I need to rethink half my deck so an answer would really help. Love you guys thanks.
34:48 See: the campaign of Khosrau against a bunch of Byzantine border towns wherein he effectively rolled up with his army and, to avoid lengthy, costly sieges against towns he didn't need to capture, just told them "we cool if you give me a large sum of money and leave my army alone in the future" and it worked everywhere but in Antioch, which he decimated to make an example of and then resettled in his own empire.
Man, the weather looks crazy where you guys shoot! Stay safe!
no wonder they are moving, looks pretty dangerous... XD
That philosopher that Thanos' beliefs come from is thomas malthus. If your interested in that stuff, you can read up on him and some critiques.
I fell in love with Commander because I remember playing Yu-Gi-Oh free for all with a group of about 10 people with friends after-school. We would always have a blast and everyone had thematic decks. EDH is the continuation of that
I made a deal recently. "I acknowledge that you could kill me this turn. Don't and I will get rid of the artifact that is preventing us from killing him." What I didn't say is that I was planning on removing the artifact and then kill them both. Sorry, but I lived up to the deal.
Card Kingdom doesn't ship to Canada so I bought your playmat on Kickstarter! ☺
I made (what I would consider) a very advanced political move that one person called out as fishy. I want to hear other opinions:
In response to a spell, when I get priority, I would often ask "can anyone do anything about it?", even if I have the answer in my hand. Such that I technically haven't given priority, but an opponent down the line is more likely to react.
In this scenario, someone was trying to resolve Void Winnower and he also had a Kozilek Distortion (counter ability) in play. I did my thing and we had 2 reactions down the line. He countered them both. Afterwards, when he assumed the Winnower resolved, I played my Counterspell. His reaction: "you had it all that time?! That's smart but... It doesn't sit right with me" thoughts?
That's the perfect way to politic.
I always police the board in my play group. My favorite deal is, "do you want that to resolve?"
i love the sriracha on the shelf in the back.
I once helped out a friend who got manascrewed (in a 41 lands deck) on turn 5 with "Head Games" to search for some lands and some card draw stuff so he could come back into the game. We made the deal that he won't aim any negative effects and negative spells at me. I said sure, why not... then he played a bunch of board wipes (which doesn't aim)... jfyi: I played a morph deck.
That was a great experience for me. :)
I find it so hard to politic with my Orzhov Ayli deck, maybe I have to take extort out and add more targeted drains, but people just hate on the constant removal my Commander MIGHT give (if 50 life, if creature to sac, if 3 mana open), they don't believe that these are a lot of ifs for just one thing I could hit.
How do you politics with drain all?
Game knights made commander my favourite aspect of magic it was also handy that I had a solid friendship group that already played magic so my first commander is zur the enchanter and it’s awesome
Had a fun bit of politics the other night.
Revealed Rampaging Ferocidon that I was about to cast on turn three and convinced one of the two blue players to counter the other guy's counterspell, because the dino was going to hose his Locust God.
It worked and it was pretty sweet!
Reversed the tables literally the next game and convinced the other guy to cover my Bane of Progress against Pact of Negation to nuke all of Padeem's manarocks, Isochron Scepter and a Platinum Angel.
I have a question for you guys. How would you react to the situation where 1 person always makes a deal to team up with someone at the table for the rest of the game? (So every game it littereally ends up being a 2v2 edh game). I find it to ruining the game a little since 2v2 is alot different than 1v1v1v1.... hope you have some suggestions to what can be done. Thx
I remember this one time I was making a deal with someone and they go “then I’m not gonna touch anything of yours or attack you next turn.” I went “okay deal.” Turn gets to him he does some stuff then takes an extra turn and starts targeting my stuff. At first I go “we had a deal?” And he goes “I said on my next turn” with a smirk and I start laughing and say “alright you got me well played” xD and it was well played by him
woah woah woah you say the goal of all deals is to win but good job to Cash for basically surrendering the game to honor a deal? This is all Josh propaganda to further his mind trick of Cash!
The goal of all "good" deals is to win is a better statement.
Cash didn't surrender the game. He opted to take the deal that would prevent him from winning _for a turn_ in order to _considerably simplify the gamestate_ and win after that. He had outs, he just didn't happen to draw them.
Agreed... that "deal" was a joke, and saying good on you for deciding to loose is just silly.
Can't wait for all the added politics with the new "Assist" mechanic with Battlebond!
Watching Game Knights actually taught me that making deals was a thing. After that, I make them all the time in my Commander games.
The totem scenario is not only a good example of bluffing but also about analyzing short term and long term value. Some times it can be worth taking the short term loss to keep a player in line longer.
Also Adam D from Killswitch engage was on Price is Right
any chance you guys might be going to SCGCON in Roanoke this year?
i so really wanna play game knights with u guys
one of my favorite political deals I make is when I play emrakul and offer the person in last place an extra turn with mostly free reign. the promise is that they take those 2 turns to keep attention directed away from me.
this gives me a lot of leverage to win this game. I now get to see everything that player has available to them before the 2nd turn, and I usually jump them ahead to 1st place taking attention away from me though I have a 13/13 monstrosity on my board.
You're too nice, the way i'd use emrakul is ask "do you want an extra turn if you won't hurt me during that extra turn?" and then emrakul whoever says yes.
One of my favorite episodes in recent memory. My big ah-ha moment in politics was pacing my play and not becoming a threat too quickly. If Jimmy hadn't dumped all his threats on the table in game knights turn 5 maybe he wouldn't have become the archenemy and things might have ended differently. Great game great episode.
What episode where the professor’s deal for his own glee affected his own real life relationship!!?? 7:30
Wasn't a game knights game. Personal experience of the profs in his earlier magic career
My favorite card to use for negotiation is river's rebuke
I had a game just the other night where I made a deal with someone not to attack me, but then on their turn they attacked me. I thought back to what Josh says about "if you break a deal, You're dead to me" and was not happy about it. luckily he didn't kill me and I came back and killed him the very next turn, but he took the deal when he shouldn't have. His fault, not mine, yet he broke his deal.
what is that music in the outro? Also very nicely done Prossh animation in the end. Had to watch it multiple times :).
I'm still baffled that their reason for making deals in the first place is to appeal to winning. Sure it's part of the game, but others like to just see things happen, new interaction.
I was thinking they need to make more cards that have the "any player may activate this ability". Like Excavation and such. If you theme around this stuff, politics in a table game could be awesome.
I am not a deal person. If someone is like "If you do blah blah, I won't attack you." I'm like "Attack me if you dare, I will crush you!"
A great political card that I love using is spectral searchlight. It makes things goofy when you can your frenemy a mana
Kenahdrum friend of mine wants to start with each player having a seachlight and humble defector.
Morgan McHenry that sounds like a blast, I would play that format
I once made a deal that I am super proud of. Somebody was getting attacked by a voltron'd up Sigarda. I know he had a counterspell, because it was revealed earlier. He wasn't about to die to the Sigarda, but he would have taken some damage. I offer to protect him from Sigarda this turn if he doesn't counter my next spell. So I fog the sigarda and then next turn...Expropriate XD. GG.
You remind me of a version called zombie master we used to play. Once you kill anther player, they become your zombie with half the life.
Great episode guys, which card was the thumbnail?
There was this one time where someone had an issue an Enchantment that made his deck unplayable and he was like "Whoever gets rid of it... I'll be there support for the rest of the game" and I played a Steel Hellkite, threw boots on it, killed the thing and shacked his hand xD That was great for me xD
What episode are they talking about at 7:30
I’d like to know too
I know I'm almost a year late to the party, but it was episode 182 czcams.com/video/z9DoLwP3OhQ/video.html
Do these guys still do commander games? If so where can i see them? Ive already gone through those 19 episodes like 4 times lol
I'll never forget when I didn't destroy 3 out of 4 lands one of my friends had with Terastadon and she would focus me last in return, but after 2 turns she destroyed 3 of my creatures with targeted removal and then started focusing me for the rest of the game.Can't hate on her though because 2 other people in my playground focus her all the time no matter which decks any of us is playing for no specific reason.
Some players hate deal making, and attack you for trying to make them. Most friends refuse to play diplomacy a second time.
Hey everyone. Is their anyway you guys can make video on how to build certain decks? Like a commander dino deck?
6:00
thanks skipperino
By the Power of Grayskull - thank you. The run-up is almost always painful.
My man
If someone played rivers rebuke and I have 5 3/3 knight tokens would they count as Permanente?
yes, but since they are tokens they vanish instead of going to your hand.
I once got out of dying in a game by handing the player with ∞ tokens my full art foil land and asking him to appreciate the art. Milled out the entire table next turn :D
My favorite ways to make a deal is hold out a card and ask someone "We are friends right?" If they say no, than do it! if they say yes that say "Remember that" and look elsewhere
That's probably the worst way to make a deal
I think the problem is some people dont understand what others decks do so they dont know who to make deals with in order to further them in the game.
I recently had a game where I made a deal with another player where he had an artifact that could give creatures indestructible and I killed the other guy as long as my partner gave my creatures indestructible whenever the big threat attacked me.
Of course, as soon as that was done, he brought out an Ulamog, and a Kozilek one after another and killed me three turns later but it was nice while it lasted.
The best deal I ever made went like this.
4-player game, I convinced one player to pull off a Cowboy Showdown with me. He could kill 2 other players, but I told him that I'm going to try something really fun, so he killed the other 2.
My turn came, I cast Clever Impersonator copying his Heretic's Punishment, and we poured our mana into our respective Heretic's Punishment, with me going first. On the stack, his resolved, and I survived with less than 5 life, but my flips amounted to more than 10, just enough to take him out.
We all laughed about it for minutes.
Nice video🤙🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻
Episode with Prof? Which episode is this?
Number of days since Vedalken Orrery was last mentioned: __0
Are you guys going to do commander anthology volume: 2? Let me know!
Well I saw Infinity War opening weekend so I didn't shy away from the spoiler alert for that, but Arya kills Little Finger!?! I'm trying to catch up, but I'm only on season 5! Where was the spoiler alert for that bombshell? Thanks a lot guys!
That cup is where it’s at
Lol! I love Werewolf! That game is very fun, would recommend to anyone who likes arguments :P
"the flanks!"
"It's 'phalanx'"
Josh, do you love Hot sauce or spicy sauces lol. I love the shirt love the content. Amazing.
I love the stronghold background. Perhaps the animation needs to be slowed down. Just a tad. Love it though.
Time to read up on rhetoric for my next game of commander
I have a question about the playmat..........are yall treating FPO/APO addresses as US or International?
Only one may stand?
My (sadly former) Mizzix deck with Molten Disaster in it disagrees, kind sir. Good day.