Michael Jordan was a failure as a Washington Wizard.
Vložit
- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- Thanks to @MANSCAPED for their support! Use promo code CLAYTON during checkout at Manscaped.com for 20% off your order and free worldwide shipping!
-------------------------------------------
After retiring as the greatest basketball player of all time, Michael Jordan returned to the NBA at the age of 39. For the Washington Wizards. A team that he was a minority owner of and the president of basketball operations for. He would play for the Wizards for two seasons, failing to make the playoffs in either season.
Some people still find those two seasons impressive. I disagree.
Shout out to Nic (the real GOAT) for the thumbnail: nicstelter.com
Twitter - / claytoncrowley
Patreon - / claytoncrowley
-------------------------
Music used (in order)
Demon by Prod. Riddiman - / demon-dark-aggressive-...
Revenge by Prod. Riddiman - / revenge-hard-trap-beat...
Venom by Prod. Riddiman & Joe Leytrick - / venom-alt-rocktrap-sty... - Sport
The way Jordan handled his team as an executive just makes me respect Larry Bird that much more
Bird is just a dude who achieved at every level of his sport. As a Coach got the Pacers within 2 of the Title and took the 90s Bulls to their only other Game 7.
@@ty88nyc35 bird did a lot but u can't glorify him for almost getting the pacers a title and almost beating the bulls
@@kylerpeltier2498 why not? I think that if a team got swept you would trash them so why can’t we recognize that it’s good when a team accomplishing things that no one else accomplished and when he took the pacers to their best spot ever (as an nba team at least I think, I think they have an ABA title).
While I probably don't buy into Larry as the GOAT player, I think he makes a great case for the GOAT basketball mind!
Yeah. Larry showed he COULD win at all levels
Clayton I’m from the UK and 2 years ago at the start of the pandemic I had never watched a basketball game. Thanks to your videos I am now a fully fledged fan. Keep going man, you make great content
Holy shit, its the same thing for me. I randomly got his GOAT series recommended by youtube and it made me really interested in NBA history. So throughout the first pandemic year I basically studied NBA stuff and am now a huge fan. But it all started here
@@bonerjoe1230 hell yeah Bonerjoe
I had the same happen to me
@@bonerjoe1230 Same.
Better be knicks fans
Man, how Jordan treated Kwame has always been one of the ugliest stains on his legacy for me. Great video!
Facts
Mike annihilating Kwames confidence started a cascade of events that led to Kobe winning 2 more rings. 200 IQ play.
@@ImBarryScottCSS wtf 🤡
Facts about Jordan's time with the Washington Wizards: - The Wizards the previous season were 19-63 (14th in East, 27th in NBA) and were the worst defensive team in the league. MJ was the only major addition to the team and at the All Star break, the Wizards were 3rd in the East with a 26-21 record, despite having a poor start to the season. They also were a top 5 defensive team in the entire NBA at the All Star break. This was all before MJs injury. Which occurred 46 games into the season.
Before his injury, MJ for the first 46 games was averaging 25.1, 6.2 RPG, 5.3 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.5 BPG on 42.1 FG%. He was getting better as the season went along. So were the Wizards team. In the last 20 games leading up to the injury, MJ was averaging 27.5 PPG, 6.4 RPG, 5.2 APG, 1.3 SPG, 0.5 BPG on 44.2 FG%. In the last 10 games leading up to the injury, MJ was averaging 29.7 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 6.1 APG, 1.2 SPG, 0.3 BPG on 47.2 FG%. People forget that MJ was on minutes restriction for many games after his injury. In his last 7 games, he didn't even start. He only averaged 21.0 MPG in those games. These games heavily brought down his averages.
MJ had torn a tendon in his finger with a cigar cutter on accident after the Bulls won the championship in 1998. It never fully healed and he was never able to bend it all the way and it affected his ball handling and shooting when he came back to play for the Wizards. Another thing people forget is that prior to the season MJ had his ribs broken by Metta World Peace in a pickup game. So not only was MJ dealing with a serious injury before the season began, he also hasn't played professional basketball in Three entire seasons. Despite this, he was having a great season and only getting better as the season progressed. After his injury (46 games into season), the Wizards fell out of the playoffs and fell to the bottom 10 defensively.
Jordan could've easily gone to a more talented Eastern conference team like the Heat, Nets or Celtics. Instead he played more for fun when he came back in 2001. Or he could've gone to the Spurs or Lakers and got an easy ring.
Michael Jordan's mid-range game with the Wizards...
Age 38: 51 PTS (24 1st Quarter)
Age 39: 45 PTS
Age 40: 43 PTS, 10 REB, 60% FG
Age 40: 22.4 PTS, 7.2 REB, 1.3 STL while playing 39.9 MINS
He also played all 82 GMS in his final season
Michael Jordan was also sabotaged by Abe Pollin, Wes Unseld who was the GM and Susan O'Malley who was the President of Basketball operations.
Jordan the former employee ended up surpassing both Jerry Reinsdorf and Abe Pollin combined in wealth.
Because your soft
MJ: Wants to impart wisdom on the young players.
Also MJ: Destroy a high school player he drafted himself.
Psychopathic mindset. A gift and a curse in that field
Lebron: Keep That same Energy come Playoff Time
Fans: We did Keep their Energies
*Bronsexual Goes Angry Keyboard Warrior mode*
@@mr.z6252 ??
Kwame was. A bum on any team he ever played on
@@TheSands83 partially cause of MJ, also I found calling nba players bums is dumb since they could still hoop on All of our asses
Anybody else here after watching Johnny Arnett's video that's a response to this video?
yup. What Johnny meant by underrated is that is not as bad as people think and there were flashes of Mj still being an effective player before his knee injuries, but never in his video did he say it was close to Jordan as a Bull nor did the vid say that Wizards Jordan was successful so I think somehow this response is a bit overblown especially referencing Johnny Arnett's video.
yeah and he overreacted and misunderstood Claytons video. like most jordan heads would predictably do...
@@dominicharris5489 Clayton actually was the one who misunderstood lmao
again, nothing in Arnett's video said that Jordan's Wizards stint was great, but people saying he was a bad player with the Wizards, Arnett was trying to dispel that notion.
@@BaXiStA well that means clayton didnt misunderstand anything. he is the one who made the video intially, not in response to anyone elses video. so only a response to his video can be someone who misunderstood something. Claytons points here are all valid and all make sense. he didnt overstate or undermine anything. Arnetts video definitely reacted as if someone or people said jordan was horrendous on the wizards.
@@dominicharris5489 no, Arnett made the video first and he was combative in his second video which was his response because he respected Clayton yet Clayton sarcastically took a swipe at Arnett’s video entitled Michael Jordan’s UNDERRATED years as a Wizard.
Michael Jordan tore his meniscus against Sacramento after 46 games his first year back. At that point the lizards were the 4th seed with a 26-20 record. They were also 21-9 over that 30 games.
Jordan at this point was averaging 25.1, 6.2, 5.3, 1.5 shooting 42%. The only other player in the league averaging 25, 6, and 5 was Kobe. In his final 10 games before the meniscus tear he was averaging 29.7, 6.6, and 6.1 on 47% shooting.
It would seem after shaking off the rust you would expect from taking 3 years off, both MJ and his team were finding their groove right before his injury. He tried to play through it and even came off the bench for a bit before he couldn’t go any longer and got surgery. His numbers tanked during this period.
Facts
Got clapped by Johnny Arnett
Kanye once said, “we should have never let Michael Jordan play for the wizards” . Gotta agree with that
I was especially glad to hear you invoke Kareem's name, Clayton. If you want to talk about a GOAT candidate who was adding to his legacy at an old age, the conversation has to start with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. *_His_* late-career exploits were truly impressive, even if they're not as superficially impressive as his younger years.
You mentioned eFG%, and that Michael was 15th worst in the league in his last season. In the equivalent season of Kareem's career (1986-1987), he had the 5th *_best_* eFG% in the league (including the best on the Lakers).
Kareem at 40 was still a crucial piece of a championship team. Michael at 40 was putting up inefficient numbers on a bad team.
Michael's supporters should be careful what they wish for if they want performance in the sunset years to count for much. If we start making those comparisons, Mike might slip behind Kareem, who already has a very compelling GOAT case of his own (as all of your viewers well know)...
Honestly I think you just confirmed what I already believed: Kareem has just as much of a claim to the throne as MJ and Bron. Maybe he wasn't as flashy as the other two, but the dude just kicked ass for the better part of two decades and never stopped getting it done on the court.
That doesn’t account for the games he was healthy though. Johnny Arnett made a quality video showing off how good Jordan was statistically before his injury.
Kareem got to ease into retirement because of Magic, Worthy and Scott. He wasn't expected to do anything more than get half a dozen rebounds and score 15 points. His situation is wildly different to Jordan who was expected to try and carry a garbage team and face double teams every night.
Well then it’s a good thing longevity is far less important than other factors when it comes to who the GOAT is.
@@todd1928 The issue with that point is that Kareem exceeded those expectations. And if he didn't have Magic & the crew, then he could get more of the ball, get more points and shoot inefficiently like Jordan did the Wizards. Bigger numbers, but no trophies. And in all likelihood, he would still have done it with a much better eFG% shooter with more PPG and rebounds than Wizards Jordan.
Yes, the situation was different for them and that changes the style of play that is optimal for them. That makes it harder to compare. BUT....
But it is clear as day that Kareem was ready to mold himself to the team, while MJ was trying to forcefully mold a team to himself. He Wilt Chamberlained those Wizards and was surprised they didn't win titles, as if Wilt himself didn't realise that is what made him lose so many finals to Russel Celtics in his latter years back in the 70s.
Would those Wizards won a trophy? Hell no. Would those Wizards gotten to the playoffs if MJ accepted the double teams, passed more and not shoot everything as if it was 1994? I say yes.
We willfully choose to ignore Wizards years, because in comparison to Kareem and maybe even old Lebron, those Wizards years are detriment to his legacy of the GOAT, which is the highest possible level. One of his GOAT contenders was much better and successful at that point, and Lebron has the chance to be too.
I’m not lyin I came back to watch this and johnnys vid in order to see who right
I'm gonna have to disagree with you saying to pretend that these years never happened. We don't live in a perfect fantasy world where you could erase the past. He made that decision to go play with the Wizards and played those two seasons. Nothing can change that as bad as they were. I was 5-6 years old around that time and those were my first early memories of watching basketball and the NBA.
They were a 19-63 team before he got there and he doubled their wins…
czcams.com/video/RXOLReaUoIQ/video.html this video proves exactly what this guy won't tell us
Exactly with no help at all. U must be a casual son
What are y’all responding to?
Cause according to ya’ll this should help his legacy.
So there’s no reason to ignore the wizard years
@@shaunphillips3236 Richard Hamilton ? hes a major piece to the 04 championship kid know your history son
You got served by Johnny Arnett. Nexttime, don't be too condescending and obnoxious. Learn to respect people my guy.
The Goat has returned I feel like I speak for everyone that we have been missing your videos!
Nah, speak for yourself please
Don’t go overboard this guy sorely lacks a lot of knowledge about defense in basketball
@@TheSands83like that Arnett kid, he's all laker and kobe bias is off the walls.
As a Wizards fan it was great to have him on the team and I’m glad to of seen him play… but no he is not underrated as a Wizard. He is was properly past his prime. Not trash but definitely not great or underrated by any means.
Exactly. People should just be grateful they got to see a glimpse of him play again, but that's really all it is.
He was a borderline all star reserve at best. Maybe 20-30th best player in the league.
He Was In The MVP Convo Pre Injury Yall Hating Hard
@@TypicalBlakk His name got him somewhat in that MVP race. That Wizards team in 01-02 was shitty. Jordan could still score but he was not efficient. His name was mentioned but realistically, no.
@@therealDJG No sir. He was in the MVP conversation because he was about to be the first player in NBA history to turn a sub 20 win team into a winning team and playoff contender. This was despite the fact that the 2nd best player (Rip Hamilton) got injured and missed games.
Johnny Arnett on ya head boy you have one week to respond my boi 😭😂💯
Terrible take kid
Jonny Arnett just destroyed
Clayton on this video!
Johnny arnett just son’d you young fella
I have to say, I missed you doing one off videos like this. Making the Case is always incredible, but it's fun to hear you cover a variety of topics every video.
Jordan Wizards years > 90% of the players in the early 2000s of the NBA
Johnny Arnertt done schooled you boy 😂
Jonny Arnett 👨🏫 schooled you LOL!
The Washington Wizards 2001-02 and 2002-03 seasons:
Wizards won 47.2 % of the time with Michael Jordan
Wizards won 31.8 % of the time without Michael Jordan
+15.4% Jordan with/without
(38-39 win pace with Jordan on 82 games. Bottom seeded team in 01/02 and 02/03 was at 42 wins)
Wizards had a net rating of -0.9 with Michael Jordan
Wizards had a net rating of -4.1 without Michael Jordan
+3.2 Jordan with/without
Wizards were -0.2 with Jordan on court
Wizards were -2.8 with Jordan off the court
+3 Jordan on/off court
While the 01-03 Wizards were certainly better with Jordan than without, they still were not a good team even when he did play. They were negative rating with him, sub .500 with him, and were on pace to miss the playoffs with him both years.
But apparently he was awful for them lol
@@Chillboyhaad Nobody's saying he was awful? The problem, and as was pointed out in the video, is that MJ on the Wizards did nothing to add to his legacy. He ran a heliocentric offense around himself under Collins, so of course his +/- splits are going to favorable towards himself; and the team around him was the team HE built. He wasn't a bad player in Washington, but he wasn't exactly a good/great one, either.
Some of that’s stats make it seem he was better than you let on. 01-02 team was playing at 41 win pace with him but 26 win pace without him. That’s a huge 15 win difference.
All you did was prove that they sucked with or without him. He literally made NO difference. Take a seat d rider.
@@Chillboyhaad if your comparing him to himself he was awful otherwise he was above average
I'm here because of Jonny Arnett and waiting for his response 🤣
It's Time at the wizards bought him two MVP contention and practically put the wizards in contention to be in the playoffs. We talkin about a non-active old man with bad knees. Compare that to LeBron with a stack team and his failure with the Lakers at that age.
LeBron in 2023 was better than 2022 arguably.
But point taken
Bro just got cooked by Johnny Arnette.
One thing that’s funny is that last year shooting 45% is Kobe’s entire career average.
when you think about it it's kind of horrendous , even Pierce or Tracy Mcgrady had the same percentages , their shot selection was questionable
@@warkunitale Someone had a good statistical analysis of Kobe that pointed out that he was a very average efficiency scorer aside from free throws. Free throws and pure volume are the only things that separate him from those guys you mention, at least as a scorer. The rest of his game was really good.
Because Kobe took 3's and Jordan didn't.
@@Vipa567 True. MJ's true shooting % was still higher.
* Facts about MJ's time with the Washington Wizards:
- The Wizards the previous season were 19-63 (14th in East, 27th in NBA) and were the worst defensive team in the leauge. MJ was the only major addition to the team and at the Allstar break, the Wizards were 3rd in the East with a 26-21 record, despite having a poor start to the season. They also were a top 5 defensive team in the entire NBA at the Allstar break. This was all before MJs injury. Which occured 46 games into the season.
- Before his injury, MJ for the first 46 games was averaging 25.1, 6.2 RPG, 5.3 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.5 BPG on 42.1 FG%. He was getting better as the season went along. So were the Wizards team. In the last 20 games leading up to the injury, MJ was averaging 27.5 PPG, 6.4 RPG, 5.2 APG, 1.3 SPG, 0.5 BPG on 44.2 FG%. In the last 10 games leading up the injury, MJ was averaging 29.7 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 6.1 APG, 1.2 SPG, 0.3 BPG on 47.2 FG%. People forget than MJ was on minutes restriction for many games after his injury. In his last 7 games, he didn't even start. He only averaged 21.0 MPG in those games. These games heavily brought down his averages.
- MJ had torn a tendon in his finger with a cigar cutter on accident after the Bulls won the championship in 1998. It never fully healed and he was never able to bend it all the way and it affected his ball handling and shooting when he came back to play for the Wizards. Another thing people forget is that prior to the season MJ had his ribs broken by Metta World Peace in a pickup game. So not only was MJ dealing with a serious injury before the season began, he also hasn't played professional basketball in 3 entire seasons. Despite this, he was having a great season and only getting better as the season progressed. After his injury (46 games into season), the Wizards fell out of the playoffs and fell to the bottom 10 defensively.
- MJ could have easily gone to a more talented Eastern conference team like the Nets or Celtics. Instead he played more for fun when he came back in 2001. Or he could have went to the Spurs or Lakers and got an easy ring.
Marc Cuban actually revealed he was going to do whatever it took to get Jordan but Jordan already had a verbal agreement with the wizards. Jordan could have played with a Mavs team who was a consistent 50-60 win team in those years.
Yeah the issue I have with calling the wizard's tenure a complete failure as a player is the average statistics. Trending upwards across the board.
This doesn’t change that he was a shell of himself. Injuries happen especially when you’re trying to lead a team pushing 40. In their totality his Wizards years were embarrassing. The raw numbers in those first 46 games don’t even tell the full story, he still looked washed, often chucking his team out of games like post Achilles Kobe. The defensive stat is mostly pace based, as the wizards were plodding, with MJ often stagnating possessions for 20 seconds at a time, they very transparently weren’t legit at all defensively.
The efficiency was simply dreadful, and that’s antithetical to what Jordan was as a Bull period.
He missed the playoffs 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The difference between 38 years old Kareem and Jordan is that Kareem won 3 titles since 38 years old, 38 years old Jordan missed the playoffs 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Jonny arnett just absolutely picked your video apart.
Been thinking about this video since i watched it. I think the danger of with either rewriting MJ's wizards run as a good effort or forgetting it as an undesirable end is that it denies the actual history. He was who he was, worts and all. As they say, if you can't appreciate him at his worst, you don't deserve him at his best.
MJ's last ten games before the meniscus he averaged 29.7 on 47% shooting. When he and Rip were healthy the Wizards went 15-1.
A 39 year old had a 19 caliber win team in the playoffs if he didn't get injured and then play injured.
The next season he was 40 playing on one knee and basically shot 45% from the field.
I think the only saving grace is the last 20 to 10 games leading up to that first injury, he definitely started to heat up and was looking better efficiency wise
29 6 and 6 on 47% 🔥🔥🔥
Nah man this video is wrong. You clearly did not watch the Jordan and the wizards and is just spewing stuff out of subjectivity
After watching Jonny Arnett’s video and this one:
The points about the transactions or team culture weren’t exactly terrible (and Jonny Arnett’s video barely mentioned that).
But statistically Jordan was performing at least ok before injury (and especially the ten games right before that Arnett points out).
I would view Wizards MJ (at least the first year of it) as a bit of a what could have been.
Those two years shouldn’t be considered among his better seasons, but due to the meniscus tear (as well as the fact that he was starting to improve right before it), I also don’t think we got to see the full potential of Wizards MJ.
Washington didn’t necessarily have a huge ceiling, but if MJ doesn’t get hurt, I wouldn’t be stunned if Washington made the playoffs with him as the best player in 2002.
I wouldn’t argue that this period necessarily adds much to his GOAT case or anything like that, but it’s not completely terrible in my opinion.
You are an elite essayist period. Not just in the realm of NBA CZcams. Keep it up brother.
The crazy thing was if he had retired and not played for the Wizards, he would have still been 8th all time in total points and #1 in PPG by a wider margin.
33 points per game is so wild
I am fairly sure he wanted to pass Wilt for points, though. By playing the Wizard years, he accomplished that, while also holding onto the most ppg mark by an eyelash.... 0.05 more than Wilt.
Hey Clayton I’ve been watching you for two years and just wanna say your great man
Jonny Arnett just completely destroyed ur claims dude 😂
They say Michael Jordan, at his best, was better at his job than anyone has ever been at their job. But those people had never met Clayton
If you consider his job only those 48 minutes of game time, you might be able to make that case. But that's a very limited view of being a basketball player, and more importantly, being a part of a basketball team
@@skynyrdjesus Dude it's just a quote from the last dance i promise it is not that serious
@@skynyrdjesus MJ was the best at his job as a player and teammate, what's your point
@@TheTariqibnziyad No, no he wasn't. The man ruined by far more careers than he made, and that's saying something. He's the only athlete alive who could ever make "Jerry Kraus deserves more credit" a true sentence.
@@skynyrdjesus when did he ruin any career lol, if you are good you become good inspite of MJ, otherwise you weren't that good to begin with, it's survival of the fittest...look at Scottie, Rodman who was lost before playing with MJ, Kerr, Kukoj...all MJ teammates benefited from his leadership
I’ve been watching your content for more than a year. Keep up the amazing quality.
So he led a less talented team to more wins than Lebron James did this year lol... UNDISPUTED GOAT JORDAN
Jordan years at the wizards is kinda the mid 90's Lakers with magic return for a season
Was cool to have him back, but it's not relevant for the legacy
Averaging over 20 points in the NBA at age 40 is no easy task.
Yea, but his argument is that it doesn’t change Jordan’s legacy. Which I agree. Washington did nothing to make Jordan’s legacy better. He was the goat before Washington, and that time in Washington had 0 effect on his legacy
Kwame brown would have never been a good player. This guy is delusional
If MJ didn’t get injured, he could have took them deep into the playoffs, if not the finals. He went 15-1 his last 16 games with Rip, In the 46 games that Jordan played in 01/02
before the injury, he averaged
25.1 - 6.2 - 5.3 - 1.5 - 0.5 on 42% points - rebounds - assists - steals - blocks
Jordan's numbers were also improving as the season went on.
In his last 20 games up to the injury he averaged
27.5 - 6.4 - 5.2 - 1.3 - 0.5 on 44%
In his last 10 games up to the injury he averaged
29.7 - 6.6 - 6.1 - 1.2 - 0.3 on 47%
This improvement in his numbers could have been due to
1. healing from his tendinitis and knee problems
2. adjustment to joining a new team and coming off a 3 year layoff
3. or a combination of these factors
The best thing Clayton has ever said - MJ is Basketball Thanos
The best thing Clayton has ever said - MJ was a failure as a Washington wizard
“Failure” is a little strong, but I generally agree. It’s more like frosting than anything.
It's a failure from the standpoint it terms of what Michael Jordan set out to accomplish, which is discussed in the video. If the only expectations were that he proved he could still play, that's fine, but we are talking about Michael Jordan here.
@@bensytaccount the Man was 39😐
@@ChopJr_ He said the expectations himself by trying to make the playoffs, improve the winning record and make the team more competitive. He set that standard. Watch the fucking video.
Jordan before Pippen and Goat Coach didn’t win anything. Jordan after Pippen and Goat Coach didn’t win anything 😂 I see a pattern.
@@bensytaccount of course mj said that what tf else was he gonna say?
I knows it’s hard to understand simple words but I implore you to try here:
THE MAN WAS 39
I love how y’all just throw that out the window & say “we’ll he said they were tryna make the playoffs”
No shit Sherlock, that’s the goal of basketball🤦🏾♂️
He was simply past his prime on a terrible wizards team
Nothing more nothing less
It’s not a triumph & it’s certainly not a failure
To be doing what Jordan was doing at 39 was truly incredible
And no within the the first 10 seconds of this video you can tell it’s biased & petty as hell
I’m not watching that garbage
Clay's back with a banger
classic
If MJ gets legacy credit for his Wizards tenure, then Lebron’s Laker tenure is absolutely mind bogglingly great 😴
No Lebron has sucked and been washed up since he left the Miami Heat.
@@michaeladams5636 what are you watching? you need to be tested.
He shouldn't have returnet after 2 years off. That was the mistake. He was still ok. He thought too much of himself. The other reason was he retired too early. He felt that too. Good video of somebody not being a real fan.
Witnessing him do what he did night in and night out is what has him as my goat. No stats, no narritive, just watching him dominate the league made/makes it clear.
...With that same eye test, I can easily say those Wizards years were nothing special. There were moments, but the consistency was gone. For the first time in my life, he looked merely mortal.
Thank you. I really appreciate this alternate take, makes sense!
Your channel is the only one i still have notificarions on for
Im just here after Jonny dookied on this video in a respectful manner.
I'm 40 and live in DC so I remembers those years and it's amazes me how they use these years as a highlight. When Mj first started playing for the Wizards he had to take a few weeks to get agile enough to dunk again. Second they couldn't make the playoffs in the east and Jordan retired after everyone almost begged him because another season with the Wizards would have dropped his career scoring average to under 30pts a game. It's amazing how people give LeBron crap for losing in the finals but none to Jordan for NOT even making the playoffs. I consider MJ the goat and he had good Wizard moments but it was far from a highlight on his resume.
Why would they give Jordan crap for not making the playoffs with the WIZARDS as a 40 YR OLD? I agree Lebron's finals losses shouldn't be used against him, other than 2011, but giving MJ crap for his years as a Wizard is much more stupid than doing the same with LeBron's finals record.
@@calamorta I don’t believe Jordan wizards years were the worst thing ever because he did have some remarkable games. However, we got the Mj that was more downside than upside. Teammates can deal with Mj when he’s taking you to the finals and winning titles but this Jordan didn’t have that upside with all of stuff that made Jordan teammates want to punch him in the face. As a Wizards fan I thought they could at least make the 8th seed in the East…you don’t even have to have a winning record to do that most years.
Lebron has missed the playoffs more times than MJ. No one ever mentions him missing the playoffs though.
@@SmittyWerbenJagermannJensen I love when people state facts with no context, so you gonna learn today… how many times has Lebron missed the playoffs, the answer 2 times with the Wizards. Lebron has missed the playoffs 3 times. What you didn’t throw in there is the years that Jordan missed when he stepped away from the game in his prime and the fact that Lebron has played longer than Mj. You stated that “fact” like Mj never missed the playoffs and Lebron only made the playoffs 50% of the time 🤣
@@TrueAnakinSkywalker what are you talking about? I didn’t say MJ never missed the playoffs. I said Lebron missed it more times.
You’re the one who complained about MJ missing it as if Lebron never did. Talk about stating a fact with no context.
Also, counting years where a guy didn’t play is laughably disingenuous.
Fact if the matter is Lebron missed twice with the Cavs and once with the Lakers. MJ never missed with the Bulls, and twice with the Wizards. At the end of the day, no one counts missing the playoffs against either player.
Holy I’m early, but I’m really interested to see what you have to say, this feels like the unspeakable truth in the NBA. Either because people are wrong, or because people don’t want to admit that he was vulnerable at some point in his career.
Without Jordan the wizards are lucky enough to win 20 games
The one thing that turns me off about jordan is exactly what you said early on in the video in that he’s not held to the same standards that he sets.
Bc of this stance by his fans, nobody will ever surpass him as the GOAT in their eyes, just an unrealistic bar. I don’t think a guy like Giannis NEEDS to go 6/6 in championships to be considered the GOAT. Can do it with 4 or 5 titles as long as the other accolades are around & you don’t have to be perfect in the finals either. Say by some miracle LeBron finishes with 6 titles, it’ll somehow hurt LeBron that he lost some finals as well? What kind of logic is that?
On those notes: would love to see a “potential GOAT” mini series. Like look at players in todays league that have the POTENTIAL to reach that status. Imo it’s only Giannis or Luka, but if there’s other players that’s your job to “Make the Case”
The thing you're not getting is that Mike IS THE STANDARD. No one past or present as accomplished what he's done on the court in such little time. So nitpicking his career on the Wizards and using that as a way to "knock him down a peg" is holding him to an even higher standard. At that point you're comparing him to God.
I bet Brown wishes Jordan never played for the wizards too
Underrated comment lmao
Now we need a video like this with the same energy on LeBron missing the Play In Tournament.
U salty and butthurt asf tryna defend daddy jordan
And a video of him making the wcf and 38 while averaging 30
Very good analysis, enjoyed every bit of it
Your channel absolutely phenomenal
Putting the failure of Kwame Brown's career on MJ is insanely unfair and there's absolutely no way you can know that MJ had any negative effect on him whatsoever. All intangible stuff.
Ok, but it’s fair to assume MJ didn’t help
the wizards years can be both underrated and also not add to his legacy. i would argue that those years actually hurt his legacy. but those two years were still great when put into context. dude was 40 and dropping great stats and the team was undeniably better with him on the floor. but his stats were also subpar from what we expected from jordan.
Can I direct your attention to the 2nd half of this video?
His stats were genuinely awful. One of the worst high volume chucking seasons in NBA history.
@@tboss8157he was 40 averaging over 20points a game and I believe he has a few games where he dropped 40-50points, the team was also better with him on the floor
His stats were to the detriment of the team. Guys like Jordan, Iverson and Melo can always score 30,40 even 50 any time they want. Doesn't mean it's good for the team. Wizards Jordan was a ball hog that got blocked a lot because his fade away jumper wasn't fast and high anymore and it was predictable. Just like Iverson at the end of his career....Jordan should have been a 20 or 30 minute a night guy. But we all know his ego wasn't going for that.
@@ignaciofuentes2642 jordan era wizards without jordan also couldn’t win a game to save their lives without him
Clayton GOATley back with another video!
Clayton always makes a masterpiece video and has stats tobacco what he's talking about. Great video. I can see when you're so competitive at something and have had great success like Michael Jordan, it's so hard to give it up, it's literally in your blood that's what you do. I remember Larry Bird's retirement, and thinking how can he walk away from it? It probably one of the hardest things he ever had to do, but he was right he knew he was to beat up and you can't stay at the top of the mountain forever. He came back as coach, and had an amazing 3 years! And then ended up as an executive and did wonderful at that. I guess I'm just comparing two of my all-time favorite players and how they adjusted to retirement. Anyway I enjoyed this video Clayton makes the best NBA basketball videos!😊
johnny bruhh
Mike wasn’t as bad as advertised in those years. Coming off a multi year layoff, already playing a full career prior to said layoff. Nobody (with sense) said he was competing for the best player in the league or even best wing player. He was more impressive than alot of players who played as long. Nothing wrong with giving context to ignorant people but saying “he wasn’t Chicago MJ!” isn’t a groundbreaking statement lol. He was a horrible mentor in Washington tho and a bad GM/Owner whatever it was. His eye for talent is also horrible.
some people would have you convinced he was still a top 10 player
@@aaa.internet7014 thank u. A lot of people tried to convince fans he was a top 10 player in the league and i mean A LOT including people in the media
That’s on him for leaving and coming back
MJ was worse than advertised... truth be told alot of guys were taking it easy on him I really believe that only a handful of guys really went at him.. but 23 , 5 and 5 on 42% shooting and 18% from 3 is bad but not horrible on face value but it's worse when you take into account he took 22 shots per game , Rip hamilton was shooting the ball 17 times and scoring almost identical numbers on better efficiency
Another fire video 🔥
I have to check this out!
I totally agree that he wasn’t great thus those two seasons don’t add to his legacy
I just have a problem with people who act like he was bad
Love your stuff man every time I see a new video I rush to it. You’re one of my favorite CZcamsrs.
Well-written and presented, as always! Glad you mentioned Duncan and Kareem (who's this Brady guy?) Just wondering, though, as a cynic, what impact MJ's years w/Washington had on ticket sales -- did he succeed by that metric?
Been here since you released the Bird Goat video. Glad that you are finally big enough to be able to clap back at comments like that and shut them down. Can't wait for the next upload
Love ur content
To me Jordan Wizards years is like Kobe years after the achilles injury, wished never happened.
@@kylerpeltier2498 uhhhh...ok...not really sure what that has to do with anything I said
@@kylerpeltier2498 I agree, Mike was better but that was not point.
I totally agree. If you were to ignore his name then the counting stats might be impressive, but if he was anyone else, he wouldn't have been getting the opportunity to chuck the ball the way he did.
When MJ was playing for the Wizards from 01-03 NBA teams were only averaging 95 ppg (compared to 110 today) and the overall league shooting percentage was 44%. These were the lowest overall totals in both categories since the mid 50s. For him to get an aggregate of 21/5/5 (that would equate to 25/7/6 in 2022) and shoot a little better than the league average as a 40 year old in one of, if not the most defensively dominated couple of years in NBA history says quite a bit.
And take away MJ, those Wizards teams would have been lucky to win 25 games. He was still a top 20 player in the league at the time no question about it.
I couldn't even finish this video because it was destroying my image of the Wizard years. Another banger video essay!
50 points at age 39 is SUPER impressive but not something that really adds to a legacy. Jamal Crawford legacy wasn’t elevated after scoring 51 at 39
Imagine comparing Jamal Crawford to Michael Jordan
Can you do a video on Magic Johnson's comeback in 1996? No one really talks about that. His comeback was way better than MJ's because Magic was out of the game for more than five years and then brought a laker team to the first round of playoffs and the Lakers were fourth-best in the western conference.
Players like Magic simply make their teams better
Guys like Jordan or Kobe don’t
Wow! That's insane. People need to talk about that.
Magic made everyone who ever played with him infinitly better he got them rings , he got them paid and he got them laid 😂 "allegedly"
IMO, Jordan's time with the Wizards (especially when you look at his pre-injury numbers) show simply that even at 39/40, even after 3 years away from playing, he was still a bottom tier all-star. Do I wish he hadn't of come back? Yes. He had the perfect storybook ending with The Shot. BUT, the way the majority talk about it, you'd have thought he was putting up 8 points on 30% shooting and security had to come drag grandpa off the floor. He *CLEARLY* was no longer *Michael Jordan*, but he was anything but a scrub as well.
Also, Jordan is just outright bad as an executive. Getting rid of Hamilton for Stackhouse was just awful, among many other moves.
Guys guys Lebron’s 2011 season never happened, he was bribed by the mafia and the NBA CGI’ed him into the games
As a Wizards fan, I wish he never stepped foot in DC
didn't you have a 19 win record before him?
Note. Mj played the wizards years basically for free cuz he donated the contract to the 911 survivors
That really doesn't speak to his success on the basketball court, plus he had already played an NBA career with the Bulls and had a huge global brand. It was a very kind gesture but out of literally any NBA player at the time, he needed the money the least.
No matter if he needed it or not he didn't have to do it at all. You miss his point.
@@adrianprince7266 No I understand the point perfectly. If the expectation was this was only for charity than it would obviously be considered a success, but it wasn't.
@@bensytaccount no one playing for free is really trying to win it all sad to say. Also its like 4 million or something
@@ssj4galactus Uhhhh ok. You know we're talking about Michael Jordan right?
homicidally competitive is a fucking hilarious descriptor
I'm not sure if you mention this in the video Clayton, but the book 'When Nothing Else Matters' by Michael Leahy is basically an indispensible resource with regards to Jordan's Wizards tenure. More then anything else is the way Leahy, the author, very much pokes and prods at the fact that MJ really didn't *need* to prove himself anymore then he needed to with the Wizards, and it actively was a detriment to his career that tacked on to the end was him instituting his will and desires onto a team that truth be told, basically felt no real desire to follow his own teachings and instead chaffed at his form of leadership that was increasingly becoming a relic of a prior age of the NBA. Not helped that Doug Collins was basically a lapdog and never pushed back against Jordan's machinations, as much as he should have, especially on the playing while injured front.
Really, it's interesting to read When Nothing Else Matters in tandem with the future hindsight and knowledge of MJ's career post Bulls: the Wizards of course, but also owning the Hornets and being a middle of the road team at best for most of its ownership, hell even his ownership of a racing team in AMA Superbikes and being middling at best. (I won't throw in 23XI Racing since it is so young, and because it really is a partnership between him and Denny Hamlin, with MJ serving mostly as the money backer) Try as he might to revive the hagiography with stuff like The Last Dance, it really doesn't take away from the fact that Jordan's career post Bulls was not very good, and really just goes to show that he was apart of a perfect storm, and he rode it as far as it could go.
“Past his prime” Kareem Abdul Jabbar played in back to back to back NBA Finals. Nobody mentions that bc it doesn’t fit the narrative that the Jordan Truthers want to pretend his Wizards years shouldn’t be part of the narrative for why he’s NOT the GOAT. If you’re the goat then you’re not playing past your prime, bc you don’t have a drop that severe.
It absolutely needs to be included in the GOAT conversation bc there is nobody else whose case excludes multiple seasons. Your entire career is the case or you’re not in the conversation.
And yes they DO tarnish his legacy BECAUSE HE WAS THE ONLY PERSON RESPONSIBLE. Had he quit after the Bulls, maybe there’s little to argue. But frankly the fact that there are other players with substantially better claims because THEIR ENTIRE CAREERS are used as evidence of their greatness pushes Jordan out of the conversation.
Bruh are you honesty comparing the 80's Lakers that had a team with two or three superstars and a borderline All Star every year to the Wizards of the starting 00's?
Add prime Magic and Worthy to this Wizards team and they go for a chip lol. C'mon now bruh.
You're acting like Kareem was the main star on that team. Magic won them a chip when Kareem didnt even play as a rookie filling in his spot recording a 40 point near triple double with 14 rebounds. You also weirdly skip on Kareem having the same age as Jordan in which those last two years he was the 5th option on the team in scoring and was merely a big body on defense with zero to no mobility. He was merely a role player at that time and surely contributed but fell off a lot worse than MJ on the Wizards and thats while playing in a super team getting easy shots.
And no I wouldnt discredit Kareem for it either so dont do the same for a bad team with an old MJ.
I think it's nice to say Jordan's legacy is perfect, but these two years are still a part of them. It doesn't change the fact he's quite arguable the greatest ever, but I think when there are several legitimate contenders for that title, it's not something to just "pretend never happened"
People usually say it never happened because it doesn't really add a whole lot to his legacy in comparison with what he actually accomplished beforehand. It's the same situation with Magic Johnson, who came back in 1996. Nobody talks about that year because it wasn't that exciting, and it doesn't really tell you anything about Magic that you wouldn't already have expected.
I mean before he got hurt the wizards were doing pretty well .....
no joke the only memories I had of mike were when he was wearing the wizards jersey. I was just a lil kid but I remember hearing about MJ retiring or something. and I remember him in a blue wizards jersey
MJ is the personification of our society's propensity for 'winning cures everything'.
blud expected MJ to led that team in the Championship while tearing his meniscus.. 👎
Bro what 😂 did you watch the fucking video
Quite a compelling argument. I’d dispute Kareem though, simply for the support element. He had Pat Reiley as a coach and a team that could (and did) win rings without him when he was 40. Magic is an all-time great, Pat has more rings than Bill Russell, Worthy was a HOFer. Jerry West was the executive. Manute Bol could plug into that team and be an all-star. Jordan’s team was in the basement both without him and with him.
I remember seeing people in 2011 youtube comments talking about how jordan wanted to return and would dominate at 50 years old
It took like a while but I think he's finally learning how to lead a team. Asking a man to play, manage a team, and age gracefully into retirement is to much to ask of any man- sadly, that's what mj demanded from himself.
As a lifelong Bullets/Wizards fan, THANK YOU! I wish I could say Jordan was the worst thing that's happened to this franchise, but that would be a lie. He still wasn't good.
He drafted Kwame and cost us a top 5 pick in the 03 draft, he's one of the worst things that ever happened to the franchise. Not the worst, but close.
@@caieby2 facts
I don't know how many times I've seen The Shot, but this is the first time I've realised what shoddy D the Jazz put up. Scotty was almost on the scorer's table and could barely walk, and they're still covering him
I HAVE NO CLUE WHY HE WOULD COME BACK TO BE A WIZARD ID SAY GET ONE MORE TROPHY IF YOU COULD OR EVEN BOOST YOUR STATS BUT WHEN HE CAME BACK TO THE WIZARDS IT WAS OBVIOUS HE WAS UP TIME UP LOL HES A PHENOM BUT THAT WIZARD PERFORMANCE WAS JUST OVER WITH
I love your content Clayton but I am so over hearing about Michael fucking Jordan even if it is to set the record straight on his final seasons with the Wizards. God damn, Skip is bad enough with this stuff, the world of basketball is so much bigger and more interesting than MJ.
Great debate between Clayton and Jonny Arnett on this topic
I love how his game winning shot came with 5.2 seconds. Josh Allen wins the game with 13 seconds in a sport that is completely more difficult to move into scoring range, and yet it’s completely results oriented as to who gets the praise
Clayton's back!!!! Let's get it.
This just shows how crazy Kareem and LeBron are. They have more mileage and performed consistently great