How realistic is WITCHER style combat? FUNCTIONAL FANDOM
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- čas přidán 21. 03. 2023
- Hint, it's far more effective than you think.
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He neglected the enormous advantage that you're completely immune to damage while rolling and attacks pass right through you.
gotta abuse those I-frames...
Well, witchers did know Quen
@@romanuserdi Good point, witcher swordsmanship in the books was supposed to be used in conjuction with the Signs. Any obvious openings were mitigated by combination of 2 factors:
1. Witchers are superhumanly quick, agile and perceptive, that's the whole point of mutations.
2. They actively use combination of (relatively weak) magic and swordsmanship.
Add to that the fact that most witchers brew potions to enhance some physical abilities even further when expecting trouble.
TLDR: Witcher's sword fighting style will never work in regular HEMA but it is pretty clever if we consider WHO is going to use it.
And also Witcher fights against multiple opponents all the time
i just can't get over the fighting system in the witcher 3 after playing the dark souls series. any 3rd person action game just doesn't have the precision on controls.
One reason Geralt might spin is to increase his spatial awareness.
I was often surrounded on all sides in the game, and I believe the best way to see all directions as quickly as you can for a super human like a Witcher would be to do a spin.
Ad mortem sic vita fluit, velut ad mare flumen. Vivere nam res est dulcis, amara mori. Restituunt furtum fures, vi rapta, latrones. Omnia mors aufert, restituitque nihil. Latus ad occasum, unquam rediturus ad ortum. Vivo hodie, moriar cras, here natus eram.
i also had that thought just watching this video
tbh if you are superhuman, yeah i can see that, kingdom come deliverance teaches you how blind you are in 1v3
In the books it's kind of implied that witcher's fighting style includes a lot of spins (and not just spinning your entire body, but also spinning just your blade over your head) because they travel alone and usually fight monsters when outnumbered. Spinning is supposed to give you any sort of protection to your blind spots. Enemies will be less likely to approach you from behind or the sides when very often there's a spinning blade in their way.
Came here to post this exact comment. If you're magically and alchemically enhanced then your awareness would be heightened and spinning gives you a chance to see behind you
I remember in books, whenever a fight was described somewhere in the early pages of each tome, the narration would contain an explanation of Geralt's tactics, how he spins and moves the sword at a different rythm from his steps, how he speeds up and slows down to confuse the monster. It's also explained he does it because monsters are not completely mindless, and can find a pattern if your moves are too rythmic, and Geralt scolds Ciri because her motions are rythmic.
While fighting humans, a lot of parades, feints and strikes are detailed and explained beautifully. Overall, Sapkowski did his homework in terms of swordfighting.
Yeah but in the game he spins he's fighting humans so he should be dead several times over humans can easily just stab him in the back with a a spear or something what his back is exposed while doing those fancy little spins
@@mariobadia4553 if you look closely at the animation, he actually brings the sword behind his back as he spins. Also pay attention to a little detail. It's explained that witchers have supernatural senses, reflexes, strength and speed. Have you realised how much faster Geralt moves in the game? These people don't have time to react
@@quill9648 Lets not forget signs either, just because you might get a hit on a witchers back, there is a high likelihood you are about to hit Quen layer instead.
@@Flustershy Or get blown to bits by said Quen if said witcher is advanced enough or you're unlucky enough to meet a lazy ass Griphon.
Not just sword fighting but fighting in general. It’s no coincidence there’s a rhythm to combat. My dad was a boxer, as was his, and he taught us, his kids, from a very young age to box. And one thing he always said was that a good fighter should be a good dancer as well and he’d encourage us to dance and to watch dancing as we would fighting. So it wouldn’t surprise me if at all if he has some sort of martial art experience. I’d even bet on it.
The Dodge Roll would make more sense in the context of oversized creatures. Sometimes a light feint or side step just doesn't clear enough space when something the size of a flying school bus is trying to run you over.
The game does literally suggest to parry against humans and dodge against monsters so, yeah this point is valid
Yeah, a dodge gets you a short distance, a dive gets you further, a dive into a roll is how to get that distance while spending as little time on the ground as possible. Though it still might be more efficient to just leap. Especially if a witcher is superhuman level strong then a quick couple of long strides could do just as well.
The amount of times I've gotten my ass handed to me by a leaping overgrown insectoid in the game pretty much proves your point. They have lethal area of effect damage.
This was my immediate thought on the dodge rolls as well. Much like the "Silver for monsters, Steel for humans," it could also be said; "Dodge roll for large monsters, parry for humanoids."
@@nuyabuisness7526 The trick between dive rolling vs leaping is that its much easier to propel yourself through the air with a dive than a proper leap when coming from a stand still. This is a problem primarily because once air born, for obvious reasons, your ability to propel yourself is 0, and so the diving roll is the better of the two in regards to speed. Leaping also generally is much higher in the air than a diving roll, and so for monsters of a size that warrants that amount of movement, the attacks are very likely going to be coming down toward you. Therefore, a leap actually decreases the amount of time to impact of those attacks. The question then becomes if doing so will clear you horizontally fast enough.
The striding aspect is a fair counter though; the question on that would be the terrain: super loose terrain (like beach sand) would slow ANYONE down, and might lean toward more rolling, but solid ground with good grip (like packed earth or good growing grass) DOES probably lend itself better to striding
One thing in the books is that while training, Geralt often gets on to Ciri for having too much rythym, because it is too predictable. Witcher are trained to basically not have predictable patterning to these attacks so everything is slightly offbeat causing both humans and monsters to fail to predict strikes and movements. obviously these sort of spins and flourishes are easier to do with a sense of tempo, but its being able to offset things just right to surprise opponents that makes it really effective.
This is pretty much the "selling pitch" of the drunken Kung Fu form. It is "weird" and questionably functional or practical, but its entire idea is to imitate a drunkard's unpredictable moves, which can be so disorienting in itself that the fighter has an easier way into defending and attacking. It is allegedly extremely hard to master because humans are NOT wired to act unpredictably on purpose so even if the form itself doesn't work well, the philosophy can work well in other martial arts.
Though that could be a reason for keeping a tempo, get your opponent into your tempo/rhythm then switch it up for moments of strikes
Yeah any good fighting game has to have a basic rhythm to it for the player to interact with it.
Another thing from the books is that geralt doesn't spin as much as he does in the game, there are some spins and half spins, but non nearly as much (the game's eccessive number of spins looks silly); btw reverse grip is never mentioned
I'm sure just about anyone who actually trains for fighting would know about this. Even if you just try the same basic attack over and over again you still have to keep your defense up and look for the opponent to leave an opening, then you break your pattern and attack the weak spot. You don't just make a move and look what happened, you immediately take the next move, and the next. If a fight settles into a pattern then the opponents are both too wary to really try attacking.
In terms of gameplay in the Witcher 3, the dodge roll is used against bigger attacks like a charging Griffin. It makes sense to jump to the side in these cases.
The smaller sidesteps are more useful against human sized enemies, since you are still in attack range after dodging, so you can follow up with a "counter attack".
Exactly this!
That's precisely what I was thinking of when watching the video. When some kind of a Forktail takes a wide sweep at you with a few hundred kg worth of bodyweight behind it, sidestepping or blocking/defending against it might be simply infeasible, so dodging under the attack makes sense.
Also I can see rolling and dodging away be useful against ranged attacks, be they from archers or monster projectiles.
Exactly my thoughts
Also, for getting in close to those larger enemies. If it's something so big you can roll under it, come up to the knee and stab I'm the underbelly. Sounds very Witchery to me
I hope that once Shad grows old and his hair turns white, he's going to permanently cosplay as Vesemir.
Shad, get your moustache ready.
Oh man, that'd be friggin sweet.
Shadrich the Elder
permanently cosplaying as a dead character 🤔
@@theaveragepro1749 if you think about it you can read years of witcher in days of our time so in some way all of the witcher characters could have died already cause "thousands of years" passed
One thing to also keep in mind is Geralts enhanced senses. He can hear peoples heartbeat and so on. Combined with his superhuman reflexes, it makes the spins and pirouettes more plausibel, since he might be able to keep track of his opponents even without seeing them.
Wouldn’t screaming deafen him? Or can he turn that super hearing off?
Everything cleared up!
He will know where they are there, but he won't be sure WHAT they are doing, hence the need for pirouettes when surrounded.
@@averageeughenjoyer6429 Id image it works similar to an eye. You know like you can focus on specific things or get the full picture by relaxing your eye
He also has a great sense of smell. He know an elf was sick by how hard they were breathing and he knew there were corpses almost a mile away cause he could smell the dead bodies.
Just because he can hear sound waves with less energy does not mean that he can hear loud things better as well, that's located at different places inside of the ear. The problem is simply that his super hearing would only work if its quiet, since the people or creatures he is fighting, and nature around him create so much noise that he simply possibly could not hear heartbeats or other quiet sounds, since that is not how soundwaves work. Now there are other ways to achieve the same power when magic is already involved, iv heard of at least a handful.
Kramer did impressive job of replicating the moves. Another excellent video.
In the Witcher world, monsters are usually described as being overall tougher than non-magical creatures, having thicker bones, skin, sometimes shells and just overall more mass that you need to get through to significantly wound them. Therefore, adding a bit of a spin could perhaps be a method of them generating additional velocity and strength into their strikes to deal with monsters more efficiently
Exactly what I was gonna say
I believe vesimir says or has written it somewhere saying the spins and pirouettes are to confuse the monsters and what you said also makes sense
One of the best things I developed as a mindset when making fantasy stuff was removing the game-based classification system and instead trying to do 'cool, but well thoughout ideas' or specification-based design.
For the story I'm writing, I conceived an idea of an infantry man using a special harness to keep his shield strapped to his body. Orcs in this setting have a nasty habit of ripping off limbs and aren't shy of pulling shield arms off. Hence, the idea that with training and experience, the infantryman would work with the force of an orc's pull to do a powerful thrust. This is the most basic move they are taught and is the definition for the Free Compant I'm writing.
There are also other things to showcase how effective these soldiers are, including a surcoat with basic elemental protection with wards against physical attacks and a full mail hauberk that goes down to just below the knees. Their sword arm also uses a manacae to protect against the overhead blows orcs commonly use. Finally, there's the norman helm with a reinforced nose guard.
I find the effort put into research to fill life into my stories all the more worthwhile, always.
What i don't understand is why witchers insist on using swords against such monsters, instead of using halberds, pikes, or simply snipe them with specialized bows and crossbows.
I'm sorry but that does not excuse leaving your back completely exposed when you do that little soobin expecially when it comes to the faster monsters it also is downright ridiculous that he also does the same thing when fighting humans which is stupid did I'm sorry but your excuse just does not work
I just love the new format of the videos. Finally, we are witnessing The Fellowship of the Shad. What will be next? The Two Nunchucks? And after? The Return of a Machicolations?
Oh yes, I'm loving these titles. I'd totally watch the director's cuts of those.
But....
What about Dragons?!
@@johannesstephanusroos4969 "Dragons of Power"
The dodge roll probably has one specific use case, which is for dodging attacks from very large monsters, like a Griffin swooping down on you or a troll charging. But it's much less viable in anything but very light and flexible armor. It's basically like throwing yourself to the ground in a controlled manner in order to get up again as quickly as possible.
It makes sense to train it until you can do it reflexively, because there's always the chance to slip, trip and fall in the uneven and treacherous terrain Witchers often find themselves fighting in, like sewers, swamps and woods.
If you've got a human style body, simple running gets you farther in the same time frame, and without the worry of the terrain injuring you. Even if you've got amazing leg strength surely it would be better applied in each stride.
However if you have a special frog ability that flings you into oblivion, similar to game animation, then sure. The video Kramer has on living anachronism about rolls explores this.
@@deadlymarmoset2074 Sure. Plus, having a huge sword in a back scabbard while wearing somewhat stiff armor makes this technique much less viable.
But i still see it as a desperate last moment evasion attempt against very large and quick enemies, which was then evolved into a more deliberate and controlled technique by Witchers to regain their footing again quickly. But its viability is still very situational and terrain dependent.
Well said! And I'd say it works pretty well in the game. You can do a dodge without a roll, and that's often enough - but sometimes a dodge-roll is the way to go. I used it as a way to create more distance so I would either be able to run away, use a sign, or 'reset' the fight.
@@deadlymarmoset2074 Yeah rolls would make sense for witcher, but when he is falling or jumping down stuff while running away from monster or something. I imagine they would do parkour style stuff especially while fighting something big trying to crush them, but only when breaking their fall or something
czcams.com/video/qzTwBQniLSc/video.html
Regarding Geralt not going for an opening straight away, Uncle Vesmir via Ciri: _"Never pounce on an advantage as soon as it appears. Wait till it stands to have maximum effect."_ It is the Wolf School philosophy.
I'll add this on as well. With respect to the roll, Witchers aren't designed nor trained to fight solely people, and when you're fighting a Fiend,, say, something the size of a Bull Elephant, a sidestep isn't going to put you out of its reach when it has a 3m reach, let alone fighting something like a Bruxa which can turn into fog and moves faster than the human eye can track, and that's before we get to flying monsters. I'm not a swordsman but in those circumstances surely a roll would give you the space to reset your position?
I would love a fight scene autopsy of the ending to Witcher 1. It's 1 sword vs 2, and it always looked really believable to me.
You should also take into consideration that Geralt is both a special case even among the witchers (due to his mother being a sorceress) and really experienced as he's around 100 years old in the books and even older in the games.
Ok, now I have a doubt (Well, several).
-Is it only a videogame thing that sorceresses are infertile?
-He is really ~100 y/o in the books? I might be wrong, but according to certain moments talking with Yennefer on the third game he might be around 30 there.
@@doomtrooper3184 in the books most of them are infertile, but not all. There are somewhat rare cases, like Geralt's mother, when a sorceress can have kids, but generally infertility is a most likely case for them.
@@art1452 Interesting. Apart from that, thanks for the answer.
@@doomtrooper3184 sorceresses aren't infertile by default. Using magic is supposed to " damage" their reproductive system. That's why they turn infertile. Or have mad children
Geralt is at least in his 80s when the tv show starts. Which is around 20-30 years before the third game. I dont recall yen ever saying that. I played that game like 8 times
Btw, Geralt's age is something, that's been argued about for many years no less due to the fact there are basically a few way to interpret chronology in the books and thus in the games. So while it is stated in the games, that Gerald is 100+yo, in fact it's very likely, that's he was 60+ - 70+ by the events of the last book, which would mean he's actually 70+ - 80+ in the games.
Something in universe I thought about Geralt's fighting style is the one of the reasons that he is spinning and doing pirouettes is not only to keep enemies away for spacial awareness but to also disorient them (The Monster). Much like waving a red flag at a bull. Where the motion makes them aggressive or "blind" enough to gain an advantage on whatever beast you're fighting.
I always saw it as a means of 1) building more momentum to increase power and 2) always be in a different spot, because monsters are less likely to be anticipating and more likely to be charging forward
It's good from a defensive standpoint because if you fight 3 Nekker (or say in irl wolves) you dont stand guard and wait, more likely swing in every direction to make sure if they attack they would run into the blade, thus confusing them to not lunge at you. And often packs of animals surround you as a "hunting tactic" so spinning is a good idea to track the monsters and confuse them with you switching your back.
Another thing is monsters likely have more endurance than animals so swinging and doing more cuts is better than "hema one taping" .
There is mention of tempo at about the 3 quarter mark, and I find it interesting that that's one of the first things addressed in the books. Geralt specifically keeps his sword movements at a different tempo than his footwork to confuse his opponents
Shad- i WANT to become a witcher.
Almost every child who was CHOSEN FOR the trials and painful mutations- "turns over in graves"
People claim there are ghosts in the local cementary and a Chupacabra maybe I should call Shad to take a look.
7 out of every 10 agree, It was a bad time
That's the point of CHOOSING kids for the job, to keep out the Shads. You don't want your Witchers wondering about dragons
@@marcogenovesi8570 They are not really sorted out, they just trick-stole every child they could. The trials killed everyone who wasn't suitable.
No. I'm not sure if the first witchers were willing, but the later witchers were definitely orphans/rejects adopted by the schools, and trained to become warriors.
In the books, a sword master specifically explains in one part where Ciri complains about a particular move.
A witchers technique is meant to be used against group of people, group of monsters, and even against enemies they haven't spotted yet. Their spins and swings also meant to pinpoint invisible creatures if there are any.
"You never know." master says. "You never know if there is an enemy behind or around you."
And considering they can parry crossbow bolts during a combo, wide spins and swings also form some form of shield that prevents tail stings or thrown weapons/spikes.
Their hits, combined with the potions and oils they use, needs to contact and sometimes just making a small cut could damage a monster significantly to slow down its moves.
Also add Quin that coud make you take a free hit in case the spin dosnt work.
Also Geralt said that there's no human strong enough to block attacks from some monsters.
It maybe also portrayed well in the 1st game, where you have separate movesets for all those scenarios too.
It's almost like the star wars form 3 Soresu yet used in an offensive mindset
@@TheShadowSentinel To elaborate on that.
The line is in book 3. Geralt explains to Ciri that the witcher fighting style focuses on speed agility and precise strikes to vulnerable areas because even with their mutation enhanced strength witchers will never be as strong as many of the creatures they are expected to fight.
Keep 'em coming, Shad! Analyzing alternative fighting styles is always interesting
"...a monster which wouldn't have taken a fencing class."
*angry higher vampire noises*
Seriously though, amazing analyzis and video, thanks!
Tbh, true danger of such creatures lies far beyond their fencing abilities.
What's funny- Book witchers use more or less historical techies :) However there's a lot of spins and dodges- as mentioned, if you fight with bloody monster one hit can end it- so don't get hit sounds like decent plan. And superhuman reflex helps a lot probably :D
Idk. The word "pirouette" comes up a lot in the fights in the books. But of course fighting monsters is not the same as fighting humans.
@@Swedishmafia101MemeCorporation That's why I eddied my comment to add spinning ;) To be honest his fighting looks a bit like mix between European sword fighting and Aikido-ish. I mean fluid motion, lots of spins, pirouettes and stepping out of opponents line of attack? you know what i mean.
You cannot parry a troll, so let's try spinning that's a good trick
@@Nota-Skaven You actually can parry a troll by simply saying "no u".
However this only works online. 🗿
@@Swedishmafia101MemeCorporation 🗿
I now want CDPR to make a game for all the schools. The armor is great BUT it’d be fun to see the heavy/ light swordsmanship of the different schools. Definitely a style switch between schools.
Withcer 1 did that. You could switch between 4 school styles in combat. And now that they are making a Witcher 1 Remake, we can hope we see something inspired by that idea.
@@Alvara9 Hell to the yeah! I’m a Wild Hunt first guy and I’m not surprised it’s been done before. Thanks for the info.
@@ManCat114 same, I played part of the Witcher 2 as well it’s not half bad just a bit dated
@@kylebushmire3881 thats facts. i completed TW2 for the first time this week (both paths and saving triss in a third) and i wholeheartedly agree that its a very dated game. Its combat is very janky and constantly leaves room for fixing, especially story monster bosses
@@silentlore2458 yeah it’s definitely tough to play. I only got as far as flotsam but to be fair that location is beautiful by 2007 standards
these jump cut type videos switching between Shad and the guest lecturer work out surprisingly well. Love the three stooges style jokes and fun.
With the rolls, one thing to mention is that they seem to be meant for avoiding very big attacks or getting out of being surrounded with no chance of an immediate counterattack, like a big monster coming in. In Wild Hunt, Geralt can do a smaller dodge step like what was suggested as well for avoiding smaller and more direct attacks like swords and then counterattacking.
Something to consider with rolling is in the Witcher 3 you don't generally use it to dodge human or roughly human sized enemies. You have a smaller quick step that keeps you in range to quickly counter attack and the roll is mostly used to avoid big attacks from huge monsters like the griffin, or to quickly move from an area and get out of an unfavorable situation in a big group melee like someone threw a firebomb at you or whatever.
I read part of the world of the witcher book in which it describes some training the boys go through before getting mutations. They train that style in normal extremes but also stuff like fighting like that in knee high water, in pitch black darkness. All without their abilities, they are also taught to treat any opponent, no matter the size, number or strength as their last fight as anything can easily get a lucky hit
Own a sword for manor defence, since that's what the Magna Carta intended. Four heathens break into my cottage. "What in the Lord's name?" As I grab my aventail bascinet and windlass arbalest. Punch a bolt through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Throw a pot of naft at the second man and miss entirely since it's a hand thrown grenade in the dark and burns down the neighbour's harvest causing them to starve in the winter. I have to resort to the pot of boiling oil at the top of the hay loft "Deus Lo Vult!" The boiling oil completely drenches two men and cause them to scream in agony and writhe on the ground, racked with incomprehensible pain. The screams of pain frightens horses in nearby stables. Draw sword and charge the last terrified infidel. He bleeds out with no one to assist him since this is Feudal Europe and nobody gives a shit. Just as the Magna Carta intended.
(you wouldn't waste oil on enemies, you'd just use boiling water)
@@mr.cauliflower3536 Smart.
Love this pasta
be boiling water not oil cuz that shit was expensive in the day
@@siegfriedgottz698 or maybe boiling tar if he lives in manor he could afford that maybe.
“Sword is just a sharp metal stick.”
-Bilbo Baggins
Well done video. It's been a long time since I've read the books, but from what I remember witchers were trained to always fight like they were outnumbered, even if they weren't. They utilize spins not just for offense, but also to let them see all around them. They have better perception and move faster than humans, so instead of trying to apply their technique and see if it works - imagine if you applied their technique, but noticeably faster, while also being able to actually notice stuff around you during these quick spins.
With that, by creating distance with the whirls and spins, they can utilize their superior speed by quickly closing the distance to attack an isolated or distracted enemy and exploit an opening, then pull back and create distance again. This would let then attack enemies one on one, despite fighting while outnumbered.
It is stated that the spins and pirouettes are to throw off-balance more agile monsters.
The cat style emphasizes the spins for this end. Bear stance has more powerful hits to fight slower, more armoured enemies. Gryphon style is more based around sweeps, to fight weaker, swarming monsters.
Also, given his super-human reflexes, spins can be a very feasible way to quickly scan enemies around a Witcher.
not really, they didn't specialize to fight a certain type of enemy, it's more of a cultural thing, the griffin school was more knowledgeable in magic and court etiquette, wolf school was a bit of everything, cat school was supposed t be super fast agile flexible etc, and the bear school wasn't "Slow" it was very fast, it was only slow compared to other schools.
@@user-bn4vp7uk9v he's talking about witcher 1 'schools' which are really just stances you use to fight a certain enemy type. i don't think the schools actually work that way in the lore, like they do have their own styles and philosophies but there isn't really a school of 'multiple enemies' and a school of 'single heavily armored enemy'. literally every school would teach a witcher how to deal with different monster types and situations.
@@JewTube001 oh shit guess your right, i never played fully through the game, maybe like 1 hour or 2, no wonder I don't remember, my bad, apologies
"All the hopps are gone and all the goats are pregnant."
Well, that could have just been a lonely Scotsman that wandered into the fields.
Since they are in Australia, wouldn't it be Kiwis?
"How do you know it's goblins?"
"The hopps is missing and all the goats are pregnant."
**Draws Sword** "THE HOPPS IS MISSING?"
What an opening to a video, lmao. I love that the hopps is the concern, not the pregnant goats.
I believe the dive roll should be used defensively and not offensive. You should test the distance you cover and how much time to cover that distance compared to running. Since the witchers sometimes fight large monsters, they maybe need the dive roll to dodge
That's something we might try to deduce. An all-out jump will get you over whatever distance you can jump at faster than run can, hence why it's done when you REALLY want to avoid something at all costs. You won't be trying to run away from a car that's going straight at you and is right in front of you, you'll put all your strength into your legs and that'll make you jump.
The roll at the end is just to soften the impact. If you jump all in forward (remember, get the head out of the way as fast as possible!) then you won't be in a position to land on feet. You can either land face down with a possible broken jaw, concussion or whatever...or roll. Which you pick?
On the other hand, if you want to move across a longer distance, you will run. Dodge-rolls in succession WILL slow you. It is faster at the very start, but the need for rolling and recovery will take more time.
This is exactly why dodge roll is called...dodge...roll. Its purpose is to dodge something. It gets you out of the way of that one threat fast...but serves no other purpose.
Kramer has a video where he does analyze this exact thing on his own channel, Living Anachronism
(Edit: here's the link czcams.com/video/lWWohNygc1Y/video.html )
That's why i actually really like the fighting from the first game, the moves and different styles of fighting different enemies not only look cool and flashy but have some realism and logic behind them when you think about them (minus the over the top jumps and rolls).
I think the only viable idea for a roll is when there's a big monster/creature attacking and the swordsman not only needs to get out of the way of the attack, but also get into a blind/weak spot at the same time. A giant bringing down a club might be easy to side-step or step back from, but if you roll close to the legs, surely that allows for a opening to "hamstring" it? It's basically the Soulsbourne concept but only when the enemy attacking is slow enough that they can't redirect their moment.
And it often is. Big monsters are heavy and often pretty slow.
Also magic though. Kind of hard to sidestep a magical projectile from a beast or sorceress when that projectile or wave is ten feet wide.
Or if it homes in and changes direction, or it explodes.
Thanks Shad for supporting folks to present content like this on Shadiversity. I appreciate learning about these topics and that those who wish to present have the support you can provide.
It's always a pleasure, Shad, and it's great to see Kramer as well!! This is a win for the channel for sure!!
I noticed that Geralt does a lot of spins that at face value serve no purpose, but actually do have a lot of utility. I think it's almost a mandatory reflex ingrained in them for when surrounded by a large group of small or weak opponents.
The most significant reason I would say is simply to look behind you. If you're surrounded by multiple opponents, you need to know what's happening behind and weaving a spin into a chain attack is a way for you to get a quick glance behind you just to refresh your awareness of the position of all the enemies outside of your field of view.
This also is a deterrent for two reasons. First, you look at them, see them, let them know that you are in fact keeping tabs on them preventing them from thinking they could get away with a sneaky stab, and secondly, waving that sword through behind you keeps them physically away. As a bonus, you could always accidentally make contact in case someone was actually going for a sneaky stab from behind at that time.
Considering that Witchers are faster, have better senses, are stronger and have better reaction time, that small fraction of time they spend in the spin is enough to provide them with all the information they need. It's almost like radar.
If you argue that they don't really need to do this when fighting one or two opponents, you are technically right, but why break up muscle memory and a routine. Besides, if it costs nothing then what's the harm anyway, and there COULD always be someone behind you you didn't know was there earlier.
The spins and the flourishes act almost like a force field around the Witcher and given the increased speed, it's extremely hard for a normal person, even trained, to be able to distinguish between a strike and a flourish. I think it is intimidating and effective, not just cosmetic. The momentum of that sword is constant and significant and can be translated into an attack in an instant. It's almost like a revving chainsaw.
As for dodge rolls, I don't think they're very realistic or effective versus regular sized opponents, but when fighting flying enemies, giants, etc, I can see it being useful.
edit: I wrote this comment mid video before Shad made all of those exact same points. Now this comment is kinda useless, oh well.
It likely also serves the purpose of not presenting any particular enemy their back for long enough to exploit it and whirling around constantly keeps all enemies surrounding them on constant guard or even catching them offguard, especially humans, since very few other sword fighters have the skills and agility to employ this technique that effectively.
It simply allows the Witcher to strike at any enemy at every position at any time, making it very difficult and risky to surround them as there are no real "safe" blind spots in a Witcher's periphery.
An one handed flourish would leave one hand open to cast flame blasts, stuns, shields or mind control magic.
So you could flourish to bait an opponent in thinking you don't know what your doing then stun them and chop their head off. Same goes for spins, you could cast a flame blast halfway your spin towards a opponent behind you.
Even the slow roll might actually make sense, not as a defensive move but as bait, combine that with the shield magic and you will have a strong attack people won't see coming.
Heck, if your not used to fighting magic that alone will confuse and scare people making them more defensive if they don't just run right away which is perfect for a very aggressive fighting style that is designed to fight multiple opponents.
The mind control one is basically just a cheat. It can turn enemies into allies, not only will they fight for you you can also kill them without them defending themselves. It would be a great way to confuse the heck out of a group of enemies when you turn their leader against them.
mind control: axii
fire blast: igni
stun: perhaps aard but its more of a push
shield: quen
mind control isn't really mind control, unless you get a perk(witcher 3), in the books it's never mentioned or used by any witchers
The spins are for monsters. It’s explained in the books.
I just love the way you've been running your channel lately. Good work, gentlemen.
I just started playing the game for the first time ever yesterday (I want my choices to carry out through the games so I started the first one), and now this video comes out! How awesome. Thank you so much for your content! Much love from montreal, canada
Geralt of Rivia superhuman abilities like his reflexes, stamina, enhanced senses makes him more of a threat to a group of humans or a group of monsters and adding a specialized fighting style makes him a predator with a high level of danger.
Also Lord Shad could very well be a real life version of Vesemir when he reaches sunset years.
Well you'd have to take into account superhuman strength, speed, agility, and most importantly...
*LELELELELELELELELELELE*
And Banana Tiger.
@@jakzak23 perhaps even Pam Param
Keep in mind that in the books, Geralt is often described as moving faster than the eye can see. It is majorly slowed down in the games and show for a few obvious reasons, and that might make it seem less viable fighting wise because no human actor can approach a witcher's speed and precision. Also, in visual media, fighting needs to be slowed down so the audience can see what's happening, like when Jackie Chan started fighting on camera and they had to ask him to slow down considerably so the camera could even register his movements. My point being, the witcher's speed in the books is a large part of what makes them able to fight like that, where they couldn't fight how they do if they were as slow as a human.
That's exactly the same with Jedi in Star Wars, the books explicitly say that they move faster than the eye can see, but we hardly ever actually _see_ this in the films because the audience wants to actually see what is happening.
Very satisfying video! Interesting points made, nice things happening on screen, good chemistry and mood, the... euh, comic relief, also. I like how this is going!
Oh and it appears some Kramer sir needs a better microphone to match the rest of the team
In the books not only Geralt, but witchers in general are considered to have great martial prowess. But there is an example of a Human bounty hunter named Leo Bonhart that claps witchers outright and excels at killing them.
Bonhart is a menace, he likes to keep pets as well 😅
Oh, that guy. Yeah, hes a freak. Hes technically a human but can clap witchers.
He even kept ciri as a pet for a while. Apparently that was his thing.
Do we really should belive in what this guy say about himself? He cant even beat a woman armed with a fork!
No, that's the problem when you are scaling a character while you are not a scaler or wasn't,
Leo literally just had 3 medallion and said he has killed 3 witchers, that was it, he was badly defeated by a skilled ciri
Let alone a witcher
There are not a single proof he killed one, and even if he did(which he didn't) , there are not a single proof he killed them in face to face fight
Shad and the witcher, now this will be a legendary video
Fantastic video Shad!
Very nice addition to the channel. Really enjoyed this!
There is a sidestep dodge in the witcher games for quick dodging, the dodge roll is for getting the f*ck out of dodge, it covers a bigger distance but it's slower
It’s so good to see a new CZcamsr like Living Anachronism rise in popularity due to quality content. So good to see.
When it comes to rolls, I think it is important to remember that they are more about dodging a heavy swing than anything else. They are only so prevalent because games like Dark Souls have made it so you don't take any damage while doing them and so they have become a staple of action games with melee combat.
Another fantastic video shad! I'm glad I came across your channel.
Really enjoyed this video! Thank you!
Petition for Shad to give Kramer a high quality microphone 😁 Good video guys 💪
Watching this while on a food break from playing Witcher 3. Getting in a quick run before work, and this popped up.
Good to see you pumping out the content, Shad!
Love seeing more Kramer! Great video!
Its worth noting, a lot of the more outlandish moves in the witcher are meant to be applied situationally, and not all of them exist purely for function.
Geralt is not actually a perfect killing machine. He occasionally goes out of his way to show off, or strikes out of anger or frustration. There is also a passage where a potion seems to fill him with incredible, uncontrollable rage, which grants him the strength to cut men entirely in half, but causes him to be reckless and unnecessarily brutal in a 3v1 fight against well trained opponents. It is not clear if all potions have this effect, or what other effects they could have, but it seems he is often fighting with the gas station crackhead advantage. Geralt is also a fan of intimidating opponents, either to dissuade them from attacking or to buy himself an opening to exploit. To this end, he often spreads misinformation about witchers to make himself more unpredictable. It makes sense for him to include constant changes in direction or a flashy spin here and there for the same purpose.
It is also shown in TW3 that not all tactics are effective against all opponents. The game encourages you to focus on blocking and parrying against human enemies, with the occasional sidestep against heavy weapons, but once you to be more acrobatic against most monsters, which are too strong to block. Dodging is not supposed to be the go-to tactic in a swordfight.
In defense of dodging, it seems kind of stupid, but it may actually be a valid tactic to cover a large distance quickly. Imagine you had superhuman speed and agility, with excellent balance and control of your movements; It could be a viable tactic to launch yourself forward with a jump, land on your shoulders and back, roll along the ground and propel yourself back to your feet with your core muscles. You would essentially be moving in a similar manner to a tumbling gymnast. against a human opponent, it would be shocking to see and might buy you time as well as distance, against a monster, it could be a way to clear a large distance to evade an attack, or reach an opening.
It also seems that Witchers are not actually superhumanly strong, or at least not by much. There are a few examples of Geralt getting caught in grapples and mauls, and while he usually comes out on top, he doesn't have nearly the advantage he has when it comes to speed. Therefore, using a longer range of motion to generate more force by spinning may be a way for Witchers to trade some of their extra speed for more striking power. A Witcher might be confident in their ability to hit a target fast enough, but against an armoured opponent, or a tough monster, they may want to prioritise impact force.
Geralt is also in a unique position as a warrior. He is faster, stronger and better recovered than any fit, young man, but he has the knowledge, experience and training of an old master who has been training his entire life. in the books he is 50-90+, and potentially over 100 in the games. Kramer did a good job of showing a lot of techniques a witcher could use in this video, after a short time practicing them as a hobby. Imagine how effectively he could do them if he had 80 years to train them as a full time job, with physical capabilities better than most Olympic athletes.
All witchers do have superhuman strength and speed
There is one VERY good reason to want to do the roll and end up on your knees. If they do an overhead strike, such as a "skull cleave" being on your knees has the advantage of when you stand. When you stand, not only are you throwing the opponent off-balance, you are within easy striking range to skewer them through the gut with your sword.
Very cool vid Shad. Loved it.
Great video Shad, you have some fantastic guys helping you here!
15:30 The large opening on the offhand-side spin might be used either to punish slower opponents taking an opportunity that they shouldn't have taken, punishing an overreached thrusting attack deflected on your dominant side, or to strike down an opponent that has been stunned by the previous offensive push. It's a large opening, yes, but creating an opportunity of your own allows you to afford such an opening, albeit sparingly.
Could also be a positioning thing especially if you’re moving around a large monster for a better angle maybe?
Love the comedy added to the videos.
We love you Shad. And you've put together a great team. Keep it up.
I’m loving the new way of filming. Including all of these other content creators is fun!
Kramer and Shad are such great duo 😀
Shad, as a master Yoda figure for his medieval/fantasy universe, is just amazing to witness 😀
Innosie, obdarz mnie swoją łaską i tak dalej… no, to chyba ostatni raz.
Walić Beliara!
Absolutely terrific video! Super entertaining and informative
Wow, that was unexpected. Thanks for showing that Kramer guy to us. He is most impressive - and has some very covincing insights about the topic.
So far I wholeheartedly agree to everything.
Also, it as a pleasure to watch. Will certainly explore his channel some more.
Geralt has his spells as well which helps him cover most of his openings. Also the fact that he needs more force when dealing with big monsters which a spin would do.
The dodge roll that Geralt does was, in my opinion, more of a way to take a step back from combat and reassess the situation, and reposition, then re-enter combat or get out of the way of large monsters that where charging, instead of dodging some minor attack from a single opponent.
I gotta say, i am rly enjoying the content lately.
I love this video and i understand this is trying to explain how it could possibly be functional, hence the referencing of witcher's supernatural abilities, but not once were potions mentioned to be apart of witcher's arsenal, just a tiny little nitpick that means absolutely nothing, love your video's as always Shad!
Don't forget that witchers have heightened senses and are much much quicker both in movement and in reflexes than humans. The spin as we can preform it is likely much faster and reduces the amount of time you are unprotected.
Witcher swords are also absolutely incredibly weapons, and witchers are masterful swordsmen. In one of the books it states that Geralt is one of the best swordsmen in the entire continent. The author makes it a point to talk about how sharp the swords are, they can penetrate plate armor if the strike has a bit if force behind it. Witches aim for the most vital part of the body, which is usually the carotid artery (but can also be other arteries / vital squishy parts) and use just the tip of their sword to sever it.
As other people have said as well, then use their spins as a tool, and because their reflexes are heightened compared to ours, they can react to that mid pirouette. Their reflexes are good enough such that Geralt has been able to dodge and riposte what was suppose to be a sneak attack from behind right before the attack landed. He also was able to deflect 2 arrows fired about the same time out of the air when they were on the river boats although he does state he has never been able to do that before.
While at it, would you want to have a take on the theatric jedi fighting -style as well? Just keeping it at the back of the mind, as I think there will be some parallels coming up.
The thing I heard about why the jedi go for such flashy swings, is that they can use the Force to look "a few seconds ahead into the future" (see episode 4, Obi-Wan's training session on MF). Thus, both force-sensitive participants of the duel know they can't get the upper hand so easily in the moment. Instead, they go through the motions and try to outplay the other opponent into a corner a'la chess, or tire out their force foresight/physical stamina.
I'd love to hear your take on this. What *would* the evolution of prescient fencing culture actually look like?
Great video, and cool sword flourishing by Living Anachronism! ✌
Good video mate!
You know what I love in the books Geralt? That he slashes many opponents with just the point of his sword. Meaning he is so skillful he and Ciri pirouettes around to evade some attacks but they both know the full extent of their weapons and they manage to deal damage with just the point of it.
I would live to see a bloodborne-themed video. Maybe about how certain weapons would be used in real life or what is the best weapon from a real life perspective.
Not
They're tools of medicine, why the hell else would you want bandages over the blades
Oh I like this guy
I’m happy you worked with Kramer for this.
Very good video. Thank you very much 👍🏻
Im not like a huge Witcher fanboy or anything (ive watched some of the show, and played a few hours of the latest game) but i wanted to say i appreciate you guys giving these styles and ideas a fair squeeze. It's much more interesting than "No one would do it that way, its stupid blah blah blah." So thanks as always!-G.G.
There's also another interesting topic about Witchers' fighting style, which is their footwork and the special training they do for it.
They use a special machinery simply called the Pendulum, which is just a huge wooden log swinging, that the trainee is supposed to avoid while swiftly moving on top of some poles. They do this because it teaches how to avoid attacks from beasts which are much bigger that the Witcher itself, and possibly even learn how to step on uneven soil (I guess very common in swamps and wild nature). Not only do they train to fight multiple people, but also to face monsters of different sizes, and this has to do more with how to move with your feet than with your sword.
In HEMA, this is a similar topic when you are a small person with a short sword facing an opponent taller than you and with a longer sword. Of course you don't start spinning, but you have to focus much more on your measure than on your weapon, for example by closing measure while parrying to get the opportunity to riposte.
Great video and sword skills!!!💪🏾
It was Great,you guys r Great,Shad👑
Chrząszczy już nie ma. Możesz wrócić do polerowania swoich imadeł, czy co tam robiłeś.
Aaaaaaaaay, Anachronism's back! It's nice to see someone say "Yeah, it's goofy, but is it really?"
Shad, reviewing A Knight's Tale would probably go on KNIGHTSWATCH, but in case you missed my very first comment, I am commenting on all of your channels that I'm subbed.
These are quite exciting topics compared to the usual discussions around technique in duels.
Another way I've seen spins portrayed is by parrying a thrust away to your left and around that right-to-left momentum around to strike their flank while they're busy recovering.
I'd love to see Guts fighting style analyzed! This was great, been a fan of Kramer for a long time
A very insightful video!
Amazing work
Nice move very excellent video. You add realism to fantasy very respectfully.
When you did the reverse grip thing, I could see a choreography like: reverse grip slash across opponent A, pommel strike over the shoulder at B's face, reverse grip stab into A's torso, then switch grip, pulling the sword out of A as you turn to face B in traditional grip
That grip change transition was amazing 😄 lol
looking forward to the deep dive
can't wait for the spin-dive :)
Kramer really does the moves well, great job