The longsword duel from THE KING is on point.
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
- The King (2019) has one of the best sword fights seen on screen recently. But what makes it so good? We break down the swordplay, choreography and filmmaking of this duel and what makes it work so well (and not so well).
Special thanks to Gindi Wauchope from @TheSchoolofHistoricalFencing for his technical and historical insights.
And many thanks to my sparring partners featured in this video: Lachlan, Liu (Carl), Gindi and Ben.
If you'd like to support the channel, consider signing up for our Patreon: / shotzero
SOURCES:
The Medieval Longsword by Guy Windsor swordschool.shop/products/tml
Fiore de'i Liberi - Wikitenauer
wiktenauer.com/wiki/Fiore_de%...
Nikola Stjelja - HEMA Double leg takedown
• HEMA Double leg takedown
#hema #filmmaking #directing #swords #cinematography #choreography #fightbreakdown
great analysis. this scene is so well-staged that even the parts that aren't super martially sound can be explained by both characters being tired and scared
Right?! Its good storytelling first but still grounded in martially sound choreography - or at least visually plausible choreography.
Sometimes, people make mistakes under pressure,
I don't know man. They don't look or move like fighters. Their footwork is weird. The strikes don't look powerful or trained. They look more like flailing. Even the HEMA guy that was demoing the short guard looks way more comfortable and light on his feet without moving. The ground work makes no sense. There's definitely room for improvement. It's cool that they're using book techniques though.
@@rorschach775 when death is knocking at your door, technique goes out the window and you are relying on instinct. both fighters are young and relatively inexperienced, while extensively trained, fighting to the death is likely quite unnerving for them still.
@alecpitts6843 not true. You fall back on training when you panic. If you do a thing so often that it becomes second nature, then that becomes the thing you do. And if they had trained they would have done these lunges thousands of times.
So many of these CZcams analysis videos break down to: "look at how many historical inaccuracies I was able to find in this scene."
I love that you took the time to contextualise why things are choreographed and shot in certain ways to aid storytelling, convey emotion or drive a narrative whether or not it was 100% accurate.
That's our vibe! We prefer to celebrate things than tear them down.
Yeah tbh when fighting experts ignore that film makers are MAKING A FILM it feels like a really lame gotcha. Like duh, filmmakers KNOW they aren't doing realistic re-enactment. So it's nice to see a fighting expert being a bit more thoughtful about the fight scene, teaching us a bit about the (un)realism and the cinema, and the relationship between the two.
I was just about to echo this. When I watch a movie or show I'm not looking for 100% realism because reality can be boring sometimes, I'm looking for good storytelling that _feels_ real.
I concur, loved the film and love this analysis!
Yeah, it shows that he really knows about this subject and has a passion for it.
what i absolutely love is the exhaustion we see in the two. too often, extended melees scenes feature people fighting as if they've only just started, even if they've been going for like 20 minutes, as seen in movies like the LOTR trilogy. In this scene and in the battle later on, it very quickly descends into exhausted people who barely have the strength left to stand, hitting each other with blows that don't even have the force to bounce off.
Is this not before the battle. They choose champions instead of having the battle?
to be fair with LOTR, it's fantasy even aregorn isn't a regular human hes a race that lives for hundreds of years so its hard to get a gauge on stamina when dealing with mythical beings
@@TtotheCizzel he's talking about another battle later in the movie
Madafaka goes " gnooo 😭😭😭 they have infinite stamina in movies "
Takes lotr as an example, which is a fantasy 🤦🤦🤦
I can imagine how surprised you would bee, when you will see that in lort they have dragons and magical creatures 😂😂😂.
That's why the " humans " are op as well. We are no talking about normal medieval humans. They are special as well, or they would have never survived the middle earth to begin with. So that's such a dumb example.
I just love that the armor in this movie works. I hate how so many movies have armor basically made out of butter. Here, he has to wear his opponent down and get him under the armor for a killing blow. The armor works.
It's something I've come to get really annoyed by in videogames as well.
Most games have lots of character stats for players and enemies to make them vastly different in combat power. Don't make armor mostly decorative. Use it as part of the game balance.
@@Yora21 you're gonna love kingdom come deliverance, armor actually matters
@@TimePlayerOfficial Man that game is so fricking good in that aspect.
The thing that doesn't work is Chalamet's light frame being in that heavy armor. He will be worn out in 2 swings if this was for real. At the end of the fight Hal should be obviously more exhausted.
@@TimePlayerOfficialI spent only 100 hours on my first playthrough, it could’ve been way more if I actually 100% it but it was an amazing game.
I really appreciate the approach here, instead of just relentlessly criticizing every tactical mistake, looking for the most realistic move in any situation, you're looking at it as a scene from a movie. You really put in the work to demonstrate that every break from traditional combat is sold by the pacing, cinematography, and acting, instead of hinging your criticism entirely the scene's choreography. I really enjoy this kind of holistic criticism.
Can't agree more. Breaking down scenes like this is benefited greatly when the analysis is informed by both historical knowledge, and knowledge of cinematography. They showed the Inigo v Wesley fight for a sec from Princess Bride, and despite having seen numerous others, I'd love to see a video like this on that fight from these guys.
@@mikehorne4053 great idea! I know some excellent rapier fencers so I’ll rope them in for some extra context.
I love that you can hear the armor and their frantic breathing. It gives a lot more weight and realism to the fight. I also love the part where Hal trips Percy. It’s such a small thing that could actually happen in combat, a small mistake that leads to defeat
Thats not a small thing. Its actually one of the key parts of man on man armoured combat. The famous duel between Jean de Carrouges and Jacques de Gris - the last DOCUMENTED trial by combat - involved two men in full armour and it was decided when the much smaller Carrouges knocked De Gris to the ground then smashed his visor catch open with his knife pommel, before stabbing him through the head. The fight in this video seems to be based at least in part on the accounts of the Carrouges v De Gris fight.
I recall it happening at Troy as well, by all accounts.
@@tileux he's not talking about the purposeful takedown that leads to the initial ground fight, but the trip which creates the last grappling exchange. Hal falls down and his foot happens to trip Percy by accident. It's dumb luck, and therefore realistic.
Not real enough. The stab with the dagger resulted in a slight "Agh...", no blood spurting, no scream, no gurgling.
@@spankyjeffro5320 That stuff happens in cheesy movies. IRL blood doesn’t gush out like a geyser and you don’t scream out when your throat is full of liquid. He probably got stabbed through the jugular and lost consciousness in a few seconds so he didn’t really have time to react at all
This is the modern medieval era movie that felt the realest that I've ever seen.
Then you’d be sorely mistaken from a historical context POV. Sure the costumes, sets and fight scenes are well performed and executed, giving a sense of accuracy but this is based off Shakespeares narrative who is agreed by scholars to have been significantly dramatised. The duel against hotspur never happened, he died in battle. The duel against Charles VII never happened , agincourt did not unfold like that. Movie is biased and pro English by the desperate attempts at making the dauphin seem unlikeable for no reason. There was no character named Falstaff, was added here with no purpose. The movie is accurate on a micro, but on a macro, it’s as historically accurate as Frozen…
@@clemsi7596
what would you recommend? not a rhetorical question, i’m just curious
@@username-yc3bdOutlaw King, hands down. The armor could have been a little bit better in just a couple of aspects--the coifs and aventails could have been more closely fitted and some of the English knights have visors and plate arm protection (Edward II has spaulders and vambraces, that's it) some decades too early. But.... yeah, that's still pretty fucking stellar as movies go. The swordplay leaves a lot to be desired, sadly, but its easily one of the most historically accurate films out there.
@@clemsi7596 to further add to the historical inaccuracy, the siege depicted in the film has the English use trebuchets to break the walls of the French castle and force their surrender… in reality, they used cannons as the main siege weapon of the day, and the English had been using cannonades and handgonnes for a good 60 years by that point in open combat. Though it’s somewhat understandable why they used Trebuchets, as it’s more “medieval” to a modern audience.
Sounds like I'm ging to be watching The Outlaw King sometime soon.
Anyone else find it funny a guy named CHALIMET played the king of England and a guy named PATTINSON played the Dauphin? History is not without a sense of irony
Haha, that's a great catch! :D
Chalamet*
Well for Chalamet-Henry connection it makes sense since the kings of England at that time were descended from French nobility and still spoke French for centuries after becoming kings of England. Henry IV and V were the first to use English in court in an official capacity though.
Almost as silly as an English king named Plantagenet, can you imagine?
This is not 'history', it's just a film, played by actors. 🙄
Big respect to the fact you understand the cinematic viability of certain decisions. People usually nitpick for hours at historical inaccuracies without understanding anything about filmmaking and how boring their super realistic vision would be. That doesn't seem to be the case with this channel.
And those people seem to believe they are being so incredibly clever while doing it, discovering "flaws" that the filmmakers did not even know about!
The only way to make a "realistic fight" interesting (typically) is to have all the drama be in the build up. Like in old kurasawa movies with unarmoured samurai in mortal combat, there's a lot of circling, staring, a few grip adjustments, the spectators become as silent as death and then in a massive exlosive flurry of at most three swings the whole things over and either one or both combatents are gravely wounded
@@Eerik_Arvonen The filmmakers *don't* know about the flaws, how could they? Adorea Olomouc (youtube channel name) makes videos with better choreography drawn straight from historical technique with a budget far lower than that of a big-ticket movie. The difference is that the people that make their choreography actually studied the historical martial arts being depicted.
@@Eerik_Arvonen Furthermore, watch Dequitem if you want to see realistic armored fights.
Some people just have no taste and would eat anything... like Arthur Dayne fighting Ned's Guards before the Tower of Joy... it was not only totally unrealistic but also joy-less to watch.
What I like the most about this scene is how you can really feel them get tired - not just the heavy breathing, but also how they stumble around and flail their swords after the first grappling part.
I also liked the takedown - instead of just a quick, clean, devastating throw, he had to run the other guy down until he finally fell, not too dramatically either.
Grappling while nearly naked is TIRING. I can't imagine how exhausting it would be with a full set of plate, in padded cloth, while also trying to punch and smash your opponent's head in.
As a 30 year Hollywood editor I appreciate your appreciation.
History vs choreography aside, a fight is a fight. Mistakes happen. Improvisation happens. Anger and grappling and whatever dirty things go down so that one person can survive. I think this scene really gets that across and the details you point out through the video as to the historic accuracy of it just make it even better of a scene.
God, I love how they are actually trying to hit each other rather than just trying to clang their swords together.
They probably aren't all that afraid to hit each other. I mean I assume the swords are dull and they look like they are wearing actual armor.
Why shouldn't they fully commit to smacking each other with their swords. I like to think they had a field day to do just that.
@@onlyoneball6256 I mean, I have to agree, it’s two guys on a Hollywood set so they try their best to make it believable. However in terms of sword fighting in cinema this is way more accurate than 99% of movies. I don’t care if you are in the best shape ever, 90 minutes of fighting is going to leave you exhausted. I am not a tough guy or a bad ass… I’ve only been in a few fights in my life and after about 60 seconds I’m spent. I literally don’t have the energy to keep going and the other guy kick my ass. I have also won fights by ending them early but I just got lucky. The other guy, telegraphed his haymaker like an idiot. I don’t know how to fight but this dude was even more inept. I hate fighting and I’m not tough. I would rather connect with someone about our favorite Science Fiction books. But I saw his fist coming from a mile away. Even as wimpy as I am, (it’s ok I’m a nerd I don’t train to fight) the fool never had a chance. I saw him coming from a mile away. I sat there and pretended that I did not see him winding up to launch a haymaker at my face. He tried to hit on my girlfriend, and I told him to fuck off. he didn’t like that so he chose to try to hit me in the face. It’s important to pretend like you are weak and not ready for a fight. it gives your opponent a false sense of security. The dude swung at me. I pretended like I wasn’t aware of him. But within about five seconds I ducked his fist, flipped him around and hit him HARD in the kidney and took him to the ground pounding his face. That bar now has a picture of him labeled “do not serve”. They also have a picture of me! “Treat this man well, he’s a good dude!” I hate fighting. I don’t know how to fight. I’m just your average dude who wants to live his life in peace and never fight anyone. I want to go out on the town with my girlfriend and make friends with everyone. I don’t have an attitude problem. I just want to live a peaceful life full of love. But if somebody wants to fuck with my piece of mind? Yeah I’m not a trained fighter, but I’m not a weak man. I am a man of discipline. I am a measured man in my words and actions. I am an adult. I will do anything to solve any problem using my words: but if somebody makes it impossible to reason with using words, I don’t have to be a trained fighter. I don’t care how big you are. If you cross that line, I might end up in the hospital, trying to fight you… And I don’t care. If I see a man who weighs 100 pounds more than me hit his woman… Yeah, I will get beat up. He is probably capable of killing me. I don’t care. If I see him hit a woman, I’m no longer concerned for my own well-being. I’ve had the misfortune of eating a well done steak. Shame, I prefer, medium rare! The human throat is as rare as it comes. I’m a bit scream about blood. Not a fan. But there is no amount of steroids that makes a man big enough to have someone bite them on the throat HARD. If I can eat a well done steak, your throat is easy. No amount of steroids and bodybuilding can protect your throat. And if I can get close enough to bite? You’re dead. I have no problem fighting Dirty if I am defending myself or anyone I care about. I will bite and scratch and use every dirty tactic at my disposal: because I did not start this. But I will finish it. I am a pretty decent dude and I don’t want this. But there have been times when I felt threatened So I went to the bathroom to pocket a metal toilet paper holder… just in case. A lot of bars are probably wondering what happened to their metal toilet paper handle. I took it. It was me. I took it because it was hard metal. Just in case I had to defend myself. It’s me… I took it: I also pocket shot glasses at bars just in case. I don’t want to get in a fight with anyone, but if somebody starts one? I’m going to walk out of that bar. And the other guy will be leaving in an ambulance. That’s only if I’m kind. Otherwise he’s leaving in a hearse.
@@onlyoneball6256 I think you missed my point… Many swordfights in movies are completely unrealistic because the people fighting are spending more time hitting the other person’s sword than actually trying to hit the other person. I was saying it was refreshing because this looks like actual combat.
@@mattlawson714 My point is that it is easier for them to do this because of their armor. I understood what you said I was just adding onto it. Also you should check out the final duel scene from the MacBeth movie if you want another fairly good fight scene where they get exhausted. Theres a video like this one that goes over it, not by the same guy tho.
@@onlyoneball6256 sorry if I came off as rude. My bad! Thanks for the recommendation, I will definitely check that out.
Aye man, im not a sword fighting or historical combat fan what so ever but when the video ended I was surprised 11min went by that quick, so even for me this kept me entertained, loved the insights into everything and appreciate you keeping it simple enough I could understand everything with 0 knowledge about it. Keep it up man, ill keep an eye out for your stuff.
The thing I love most about this fight is till how exhausting it is. There’s a moment in which they both just take a break to catch their breath while on the ground.
I just wish they'd had portrayed the Battle of Agincourt more accurately. The biggest takeaway European militaries got from the battle was how decisive English longbows and bad weather could be. The French were forced into the fight as a knee jerk reaction to a volley of English arrows, and their cavalry was stopped by mud and pointed stakes pounded in by English archers, funneling the French, who were already being funneled by terrain, into the English infantry and flaking fire from enlish archers. And when the infantry started to falter the archers rushed into the melee. The battle in the movie was just a moshpit
Yeah, well to be honest, the film was based on a Shakespeare play. As far as I know the Dauphin isn't even at Agincourt.
@modest_spice6083 the fictitious French prince said it was at agincourt
@@tylerbryanhead Historically the Dauphin isn't at Agincourt, I mean. And it's pointless to ask for historical realism in the film since it's based on a play.
I've not seen any evidence that everyone in Europe was taking notes from Agincourt.
In fact the Battle Of The Golden Spurs saw the guildsmen doing the same: Making the knights charge across mashy terrain, catching it into a pike line, then dispatching them.
That was 1302, well ahead of 1415.
Now that (and the Erfgooier ambush to free Floris V) was stuff that had people taking notes, as commoners could reliably defeat nobles.
"Biggest takeaway?" Funny how longbows were absolutely trampled into the ground at Patay by a much smaller force. And, oh, the English lost the war. And then warfare in Europe didn't change all that much until pike and shot, despite all the noise from anglophiles. It's almost like the English spent 100 years losing a war they started and need to focus on some statistical flukes to not be ashamed.
So basically a battle scene that combines actual historical accurate combat with things that you cant prevent, such as exhaustation, grapling, and overall things that would happen in an actual fight, so cool!! :D
huge respect for not just criticizing the inaccuracy’s but also understanding why they might be inaccurate and even acknowledging and praising even when the film sacrifices some realism in favor of making another part of the film better. Really good analysis
I'm from the school of historical audience. No way the guys watching wouldn't back the fk up when steel is swinging a few paces away lol
I'm from the school of commercial construction, and you would not BELIVE the amount of life threatening near misses from equipment, both vehicular and handheld, that have almost shorn a limb from some guy in a group of tradesmen not moving away because it would read to everyone as them being 'scared and 'a pussy'. I have to imagine the same can be said among the retinue we see in the scene
this might also be just me but my idiot brain is often very late sensing danger. I've nearly been hit by a car and not react to it until the adrenaline hit me minutes later. I've laughed about nearly being tipped out of suspended scaffolding like 9 floors up, only to feel my heart suddenly pounding out of my chest much later. My dumb ass would've definitely just stood there like that lol
True, this is why whenever there is a fight between two guys on a night out, everyone around them makes a wide circle and says "Woah, keep your distance, lads. This is a duel between noble adversaries and for us to become involved would be a dishonour both to ourselves and the ancient rite of combat."
@@ElcoreThat was amazing. Thank you
I study and coach HEMA and honestly, you kinda get used to it. Obviously we're not getting dangerously close to spars but its not uncommon when judging or coaching to stand a few feet away from an active spar. Because the attacks aren't coming at you they're relatively safe. That and there's far less gigantic, overly committed swings than choreography shows.
I don't want to be a Star wars nerd, but I think the reason that there's so much blocking in Star wars lightsaber duels is that the majority of the trainers are Force sensitive and can predict what is coming to an extent so it ends up with a lot of blocking until one of the makes a mistake that the other takes advantage of
He didn't have a problem with blocking itself. The issue he was referring to is the habit many fight scenes (in any movie) have where the characters attack the other character's weapon instead of the person holding it
In real combat sometimes you attack the weapon but mostly you want to attack the person. Star Wars had a lot of 'swing straight at the other guy's lightsaber instead of trying to swing on the guy' in a few fights
To be fair, the Duel of Fates is undoubtedly the best lightsaber battle in live action Star Wars :) I shouldn't have picked on it! :)
(The best light sabre duel is Obi Wan and Darth Maul's rematch in Clone Wars. It's sublime).
If you watch the trajectory of a lot of swings in the Star Wars fights, they rent aiming at their opponent. That’s what he means. People blocking attacks is fine.
@@_shotzeroBest soundtrack too.
"I don't want to be a Star wars nerd..." But you are going to be, regardless. It's OK, we're all well used to the nerdiness of Star Wars nerbs by now. Trust me. 🙄
Something else I like alot here is that they KEEP THEIR HELMETS ON. Most Hollywood movies would insist on the visors going up or no helmets so their actors can emote, at the cost of realism and believability. Them keeping and using their armor correctly just adds so much here.
I actually question the visors going down. Visors greatly, greatly, limit visibility and outside of sport combat I am not sure this what combatants would actually do.
I think the disarming strike was aiming at Hal's hand not the sword in which case dropping the sword makes sense, Hostpur nearly cut his hand off! It's hard to see with the blur though and I could easily be mistaken. It's also possible Hal simply had a weakened grip upon his sword after being knocked over.
This fight had me excited for the rest of the film and I was so disappointed by the battle later on. ):
To me it looked like Hal didn't have a great grip on it, but is still bringing it up for defense. Hotspur catches it and it's just enough torque to pop it out of Hal's hand, but the forward movement is still there so the sword moves forward. I've lost a sword in similar way (but it was tied to my finger at the time, so I was able to recover - SCA vs HEMA.. very different, but I think the physics still make sense here.. )
@@fighterguystudios
That makes more sense to me
Felt it was more of a 'Drop it'/throw it in favor of steadying his fall.He both made his hand avalible to easier steady himself as he fell backward, and got it out of the way so he didn't fall on it. In the spur of the moment i would say it seemed to make more sense drop his long sword as he was getting 'cornered' and falling to steady himself, and reach for his shorter back-up weapon.
I think it is because the visibility is limited in the armor and he knew he's hand was vulnerable so he dropped the sword without looking, knowing it was going to be hit if he didn't do anything. If he tried to hold on to the sword it may have been to slow to react. He was also falling and was focused and how he was going to fall and how to react to the strike on his vulnerable hand. In this sense, he had to prioritize between falling safely and not incuring an injury to his hand or hold on to the sword and potentially hurt his hand. Either way he would have to get up while holding the sword which would have been slower so he just gave up to be a step ahead. You can see he trips the other opponent later when he falls backwards to surprise him and stab him with the dagger.
Good analysis!
Really good, layered analysis regarding both the realistic and cinematic sides of choreographed fights.
Appreciate the kind words!
Seeing this first fight with half-sword stuff, bashing with the pommel, the fist fighting and wrestling, and the finish with the dagger in the gap in the armor, I knew I was going to like the movie.
I really like how you not only compare the choreography to real combat, but also explain why the choreography is done the way it is, including safety considerations for the actors.
As someone with 7+ years of HEMA experience (mainly Fiore), this is PERFECT HEMA content. This is exactly what I am looking for and love to see. Keep this kind of stuff up!
Glad it was helpful! We aren’t just a HEMA channel but clearly there’s a hunger for these kind of videos so expect more!!
Great work on the analysis. I see a lot of HEMAtubers/swordsmen approach every movie as if they were actually trying to kill one another, instead of being actors. The negativity gets really old and eventually just turns into an overblown hatefest. Glad to see a refreshing interpretation done by you.
Thanks for enjoying the positivity!
For better or worse, we're not a hema channel, we're a filmmaking channel where one of us does hema.
That was excellent. I am glad to find someone who appreciates and analyses both the fight choreography and the cinematography. Your other videos look interesting as well so I'll be giving them a watch.
Please do! And more to come :)
This is some quality analysis! First off, I'm always happy to see The King get a bit more love, I wouldn't say it's SUPER underappreciated, but I think people brushed it off a bit quick. Second, love that you go at this with multiple lenses, really gives us a full view. Not just the historical/technical fighting side but also story/shot. Can't wait to check out more from this channel!
Well said!
Incredible detail in this video, thank you
Glad you liked it!
This was one of my favorite scenes from an amazing movie that I was not expecting to be so good. Grounded and moving in ways most movies never come close to. One of my favorites of the last 10 years.
Stellar break down. Really appreciate your work here
I appreciate this breakdown as well. As someone who appreciates accuracy this really makes me want to watch this film as I have never seen it. I really like at 8:20 when Hal has Hotspurs back Hotspur is pulling down on his visor to prevent Hal from opening it. It shows great attention to detail and how when you can’t see what your opponent is doing defending is always on your mind. This is a great bit of movie making. Thanks for sharing!
This video was great. Thanks for reminding just how good that fight was.
Loved this video! I really enjoyed the detail and the beat by beat analysis of both the historical accuracy of the fighting, but also the filmmaking and storytelling reasons behind the choreography!
Absolutely gets a subscription, just for finally putting what I've thought about the fight breakdowns into words. Visually plausible. That headbutt would do nothing irl, but even as a hema practitioner who knows that, as a viewer i'm still fully convinced by it in the moment. I also appreciate that you take into consideration that characters making a martial mistake, such as over-parrying, is totally plausible. Its hard not to over-parry when a big point is coming at your face during hema, so I can only imagine what it's like in real combat.
Can we just take a moment and really soak in how brutal close/single combat was in these days? Not to mention anything other than nobles/highborn wouldn't be really wearing much armor, much less wielding a nice castle forged sword. The most a lowborn could hope for might be a gambeson with a helmet of some sort, so the first unchecked thrust or cut would likely end the fight unless it was a glancing blow. I remember watching a long documentary on the Battle of Towton and the horrific wounds found on the skeletons of the casualties. That was a real eye opener for me. Very cool breakdown by someone with actual swordplay experience, thanks for the great video!
Hmm going into battle knowing the other guys gonna try to skewer you in a tender part 😬
"the first unchecked thrust or cut would likely end the fight" -- I think you underestimate how hard it is to quickly kill a human. Also, a gambeson and helmet provided a decent level of protection to the vitals, at least against spears and swords.
It's brutal these days too.
@@jrd33 Yes and no... if you got stabbed, would you keep trying to fight knowing that you'd just get stabbed again, or drop away and hope your buds would handle it?
@@colbyboucher6391 In the heat of battle, fired up by adrenaline and fear, I an not sure how often you would be making decisions rationally. Often people injured in a fight don't even realize they've been hit until they see the blood. But others are out of the fight from a minor wound, so I guess it's hard to generalize.
swordplay has always interested me, i am now interested even more. thank you.
What a fantastic analysis and really well presented, I'll have to watch this film for my self now and I'm looking forward to seeing your channel grow!
Excellent analysis, great balance of what works and whats possible
Much appreciated!
As a 3D animator student I find it fascinating trying to get as into the line, between realism and spectacle. It's really hard to make something visually entertaining, and at the same time make it somewhat in a realistic sense, believable. One of the main things besides technique I think is often overlooked in entertainment, is the actual feel of fear from both parties when it comes to a battle to the death, The duelists comes to mind on that first fighting scene, where you can see even the way that they fight, the confidence and experience of one fighter, and the ineptitude of the other, but on both sides you can feel they know they are playing with fire.
this is the first time i've seen your channel, and i have to say i'm impressed, for the same reasons that most of the other comments point out. i think i'll be checking out more of your videos :)
I really love how you give context that this is a movie and is for an audience and allow it to give leniency🙌🏽
Amazing video. Congrats on this video going viral! Over a million views ten days in! You should do a bunch of these types of fight breakdowns/shot analysis. Amazing stuff.
That’s the plan! We are doing Total Recall next (not historical but fun cause it connects to fashion in martial arts) then probably the Last Duel!!
This movie had great weight to it, something so many movies especially medieval movies often miss
Great review - one thing I like about this fight as well is it sets up/foreshadows the Battle of Agincourt in it's initial knightly poise and classical warfare with longswords giving way to the brutal reality of tripping your opponent and fighting tooth and nail on the floor with a short weapon to achieve victory.
Worst part of the film is that they neither stayed true to Shakespeare and made a nice film, not stayed true to history and made a great film, instead choosing to portray a nonsense that is neither a rendition of the play nor a historical account, with random moshpit battle instead of Agincourt. We have multiple accounts of how that battle transpired, it would be great visually, but no instead this weird thing they made is an embarrassment.
I wonder why they wouldn't start with dagger in the first place if you need to takedown your opponent and find gap in armor
I love that you acknowledge the moments in this scene that are done for cinematic effect that they get away with, but you do so without bashing the movie for being a movie. That's a really nice change in energy, and I like the positivity, even for something I haven't seen before.
I knew this was an awesome fight from the moment i watched it, but i haven't been able to describe why. You've done exactly that with this video. Thank you!
This is excellent.
Holy shit wasn't expecting this level of content with your amount of subs. You deserve success my man! Here's a sub :) Continue the good work!
Thank you!
I stumbled across this film by accident and having been involved in historical martial arts for much of my childhood was thoroughly impressed.
Thanks mate. A sound break-down with grown up acknowledgement of what the piece we're watching actually IS. Stage (or screen) Combat done properly has a lot of moving parts because it has a lot of jobs to do within the story. Great, insightful, useful content. On my first watch -I'll subscribe to your channel. Cheers.
randomly picked this to watch. was such a good movie
I'm gonna watch this movie, thanks for the work.
it's very underrated imo. The movie takes itself seriously but I think it manages to hold up to that.
Fantastic analysis and insight, very glad to see this is receiving the attention it deserves ⚔️
I REALLY appreciate your treatment of this fight, particularly the balance between historical validity and the necessity to make certain things digestible to the audience.
I like how you consider the choreography/storytelling aspect of the scene and not just complain about the historical accuracy.
If you watch a movie based on Shakespeare play for historical accuracy then you're going to be disappointed! I come for the drama!!
_fighter plunges dagger into opponent's throat_
Shot Zero: This is so good *heavy breathing*
i mean....
Your analysis is very detailed and nuanced, you don't just talk about the historical accuracy, but also mention the reason why most fights are portrayed the way they are in media, I like that a lot
I understood at the end why you have a unique focus on the cinematographic style, that's the focus of your channel haha
excellent break down thank you for putting this movie on the map
I am reading the "Ill made Knight" (William Gold) Series, written by Chameron Christian, right now and I did not know that Fiore in the book actually is the Fiore referenced here. Learned something new. Good video. I agree, The King was, or rather is, a very good movie.
Fiore is the bomb! I hope this encourages you to pick up a longsword and a dagger!
The fact that you only have (as of this comment) 343 subscribers is criminal. Exceptional content
watched this movie on your recommendation, your explanation of this duel being of high quality enough to pique my interest. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I thank you for this analysis.
Love the appreciation for cinemetography in this analysis
That was good but you should add the full fight at full speed at the end. ✌️
Then there would be no video because it would get copywrite struck.
Good suggestion for the next one. I'll see if I can find a link to one already on CZcams and link to it.
I've never watched this scene before, seeing a guy in armor go knee on belly ground and pound is hilarious. At 8:20 I thought he was going to go for a choke and I was curious how it was going to work.
I loved this movie. The scene where they are laying siege and sending off flaming shots from the trebuchets is one of my FAVORITE shots in cinema.
Really enjoyed your analysis of this fight
thanks for reminding me! Great shot!!!
Please make more analysis videos on sword fights like this!! It was awesome and i really enjoyed it!
Glad to hear it! And glad to say we are planning to. Next one will be on the Last Duel so subscribe to known when it’s coming out! :)
I’m sure this is a very obvious comment but I think another big aspect of this scene is, while these young men have skills beyond there years to be sure, they’re still kids. The wide shots, the sloping shoulders, and the deep panting from both men, adds to the desperation. This is not a fight between to noble princes for the honor of the realm, it’s a brutal scrap between to teenagers to save their people and prove their banner is greater than the other.
Great commentary. I'd love to hear a similar breakdown of the fight scene at the end of Polanski's "MacBeth." That fight always struck me as very visceral.
Good excuse for a rewatch. That MacBeth is the OG Game of Thrones.
Oh wow. So nice (and so rare) to see analysis that spans appreciation of BOTH realism AND cinematic value.
Well done, thank you for that break down
You having said the thing about the visors without hatches leads perfectly into the wresteling scene on the ground at 8:20 , you can see the he holds his visor to prevent it from being opened by his opponent, awesome
Amazing observation! Now I wish I saw it!!
The choreography in this movie was great but the final battle was a huge letdown. When it was revealed that the final battle was Agincourt, I was stoked, having watched Tod’s Workshop Arrow vs Armor series. I pictured fully-armored knights knee-deep in the mud, while longbowmen let loose arrow after arrow from like 20 feet away. But it was just a generic melee. The mud was only as bad as a soccer field in the rain.
A single longbow arrow hitting a propped-up set of armor in one of Tod’s Workshop’s videos was more dramatic than that battle, unfortunately.
While it wasn’t very historically accurate: I still think the final battle was really good.
It shows the basic concept of how mud was used during the actual battle. It shows that fighting in mud is bloody exhausting (they do a pretty good show of combat being exhausting in the video’s duel as well).
More importantly: the fight was messy, both figuratively and litterally. Which fit the mood the show was going for after effectively sacrificing a bunch of troops to win the bigger fight
@@daanstrik4293 it was a good battle on its own, it was just generic. This is the battle that demonstrates the power of the longbow and changed how battles were fought for centuries; they had like two volleys from regular-draw bows. Also, while the mud was present in the movie, in real life it was so deep knights were literally drowning in it. Like, hundreds of them, just from falling over and not being able to stand back up.
Go watch Tod Cutler’s videos, how a longbow arrow practically EXPLODES against heavy armor. It’s a good battle but it sure didn’t have that.
@@asmodiusjones9563 I think you might need to revaluate your sources there.
@@headhunter1945 Frenchman detected! (j/k)
But seriously, listen to this excerpt from Wikipedia:
“The surviving French men-at-arms reached the front of the English line and pushed it back, with the longbowmen on the flanks continuing to shoot at point-blank range. When the archers ran out of arrows, they dropped their bows and, using hatchets, swords, and the mallets they had used to drive their stakes in, attacked the now disordered, fatigued and wounded French men-at-arms massed in front of them. The French could not cope with the thousands of lightly armoured longbowmen assailants (who were much less hindered by the mud and weight of their armour) combined with the English men-at-arms. The impact of thousands of arrows, combined with the slog in heavy armour through the mud, the heat and difficulty breathing in plate armour with the visor down,[85] and the crush of their numbers, meant the French men-at-arms could "scarcely lift their weapons" when they finally engaged the English line.[86] The exhausted French men-at-arms were unable to get up after being knocked to the ground by the English. “
I’m just saying, there were no point-blank longbow shots in the movie.
@@headhunter1945 Todd's Workshop is aligned with and overseen by Tobias Capwell, a US medievalist warfare historian and curator of Arms and Armour at the Wallace Collection in London.
subscribed. sensible, informed/informative, smart, to the point. this is extremely enjoyable content and i thank you for it.
Welcome aboard!
Fantastic vid, love that you tackled the fight from the viewpoint of looking for what was good, and justifying what wasn't. A refreshingly nuanced analysis, especially on a platform that seems to reward strong, negative opinions.
Keep up the good work!
About the cut when he head-butts his opponent: That's actually NOT the way you should do it! Yes, the cut is perfectly timed but that's not how our brains process visuals! The style we see here is the approach of western film-makers: Switch to the second camera the exact same millisecond. But our brain needs about half a second to process the switch. See, the brain creates a mental picture of what's happening and if you cut like this, it's hard to process. Jackie Chan is also cutting his own movies and what he is doing is this: He adds about half a second of the second camera, so the brain will see half a second of the same movement twice but from different angles. And this does NOT register as strange of choppy, instead, it gives the brain the time it needs to piece everything together and the result is a smooth transition - you don't even notice the delay but the overall experience is better and you know exactly what happened.
Yea that doesn't map on to my personal experiences. The headbutt cut looked perfectly fine to me. Rewind cuts can get annoying, especially when done in excess. Much prefer the example in this video.
@@ispear6337 Then you've never seen a Jackie Chan movie. It's not a rewind cut. The action from the 1st angle is cut shorter so that the payoff is in the second angle. If someone winds up a punch, it cuts to the second angle of the punch actually happening. This gives the camera angles, the dynamics, and the readability.
@@jakelee7083 That is not even remotely what op is talking about. He is referring to cuts where the 2nd shot effectively replays a tiny half second portion of the previous shot from the new angle to supposedly help you keep up with the action between cuts.
"So the brain will see half a second of the same movement twice from a different angle" - from the original post.
@@ispear6337 I wasn't talking about OP. I was talking about the incorrect assumption about Jackie Chan movies. Seeing as you called them "rewind cuts," that implies that you think his work is just shoddy. Which it absolutely isn't. Even John Wick follows this same principle.
@jakelee7083 I didn't call Jackie Chan's cuts rewind cuts. I called the cuts mentioned and explained by op rewind cuts. He used Jackie Chan as an example, not me. Bring it up with him.
Cutting as the head butt connects is a shame I feel. It dulls the visual impact. Makes you feel like you blinked and missed it. Its a Western technique. In classical Eastern martial arts films would show it connect, wait a beat, cut and show the impact again.
Yeah, I think they did it for safety. Essentially in the reverse angle they can kinda jerk themselves back (possibly with a wire but who knows) and the cut + sfx sells it.
But yeah, in HK and Eastern action films they'd do a double cut to sell the impact.
lol we've seen the tony zhou videos too, bud
The head didn't connect he was hitting along, hence the cut. Anyway you head butt two helmets before the impact.
This was such an underrated film. The battle sequence where the men start stabbing each other with daggers and drowning each other in mud was so raw, and much more accurate to what ive learned of historical accounts of battles at that time
New sub, this video was excellent. Really well made, and I'm more a modern warfare guy, but i found this so engaging, i had to watch twice.
Thanks man.
(Also, I'm watching from deepest, darkest South West of Western Australia! One of my mates is into competitive longbow archery.)
Great video only nitpick and it’s a very small nitpick. Is for the star wars example you picked the worst example. That duel is great and evey swing is a plausibly aimed just a little stylish. The prequels do duels relitly well compared the rest of the series the sequels especially have horrible fight scenes, where the attackers swing at the ground or empty space or do some stupid flurry. Great video regardless tho, very informative
I felt kinda dirty putting in The Duel of Fates because it is so much better than the choreography in the OT and ST. We do have a video planned on Nick Gillard & Ray Park's work in SLEEPY HOLLOW - because it's just really *fun*.
1 thing you failed to point out and it's a valid critism in my opinion , was when he falled down in front of hal for no apparent reason and then died.
that last part i don't buy it honestly.
He tripped over his foot what do you mean?
never thought id watch an 11 minute video on a subject like this, loved the movie so figured why not. you did such a great job with the video, i genuinely enjoyed watching every bit of it
Amazing video sir thank you for this random masterpiece
the head butt would do more through the armor than a sword strike.
You probably do just as much damage to yourself
@@kaydens6964 If you hit with the wrong part of your head, for sure.
Useless, just a point for effort, you push your head against a heavy helmet, then against another heavy helmet that finally goes against the other head. Any pommel or cross-guard strike would be more direct and effective. At that distance pushing with the cross-guard in the joints or the coif is more blunt force trauma rich.
@@2adamast you ever watch the M1 medieval fights? Not a whole of opportunity for "pommel strikes", just people getting their bell rung with shields to the their "heavy helmet"
Probably one of the best Netflix originals they've ever released. Great breakdown, will have to rewatch this one soon
The King is definitely top 3 movies set in medieval Europe for me. Such great acting, photography, and script. Really a modern day classic if you ask me.
Casting the lead to a dude who has the body of adolescent boy also doesn't quite help things.
I think that was a strength of the film. So many monarchical rulers weren’t physically ideal, and it makes everything feel a bit more grounded and desperate.
@@zacharypatton6341right I doubt even most soldiers at the time were big swole units aren’t most of them conscripted peasants
It also works narratively - he's young, untested, and underestimated. If he was built like a brick shithouse you'd lose all that tension.
@@Shovelglove545 they were professional soldiers at the time, a lot of modern military organization and terms originate from that time period. peasants can't afford horses or gear and you can't rely on them to even show up. so essentially nobility took soldiers from the land owning class/gentry/noblemen and commissioned them
at castle Eltz in Germany is an armor of an guy that was nearly 1.90 meter. Our guide mentioned the effects of different nutrition on nobles and peasants. But he also stated, there are very few armor of this size arround. The user of that armor was a knight known for his combat prowess.
But also remember, in regards of size.... roman legionaries were a head shorter then german tribes warriors and gave them a beating most of the time. ;)
is there anything more gay then losing to Timothée Chalamet
more gay “than”.
Don't say something if you don't have something nice to say
Amazing video, not really my "period of warfare" but i was really entertained and learned stuff, thought your channel was much larger, but you will grow fast
I watched this film for the first time a couple months ago. When I saw this video title I was very pleased. This was a great movie in regards to battle accuracy! Love to see it!
only issue of course is it never happened
Um, yeh…the movie was inspired by Shakespeare, not historical events.
@@Hroethbert It actually doesn't follow the plot of Shakespeare all too well either, I've heard.
@@louisryan5815it’s so non-committal to both, which frustrated me. It’s not good as a historical drama and it’s not good as a Shakespeare adaptation. For the latter, I’ll stick with Kenneth Branagh’s Henry V, which is a masterpiece.
No, next you will be telling me harry potter is not real
@@bladfadsfblaadsfsadf900 I watched an interview where they explained that they were intending to tell the Shakespeare adaptation, and obviously go for some historical accuracy, but felt the need to create their own identity. Perfectly reasonable in my opinion. I thought they did a great job with the film
Fantastic video, literally tapped on accident and stuck around for a great watch
Fantastic video. Normally, I bounce off of swordfighting CZcamsrs. You cite sources, talk about time period swordfighting metas, and you have a fantastic way of conceptualizing and expressing ideas (ie "visual plausibility").
Outstanding video.
Thank you so much for the kind words! We’re not (strictly speaking) swordfighting CZcamsrs, we’re filmmaking CZcamsrs so that may have something to do it with? But we are also coming at the filmmaking analysis from a very grounded perspective so 🤷
@@_shotzero I wrote my comment like halfway through your video. I shared your video with my friend and wrote the comment. I saw that you're more of a cinematography channel. Regardless, I love the cut of your jib. I subscribed and I plan on staying abreast of your work. You make great videos! Have a great day, friend.
@@math925Awww thanks! There’s def more sword / filmmaking content coming too.
Great explanation/analysis! Thanks.
Such a great flick, and awesome analysis!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Saw this movie a few years ago and I was surprised at how good it was for being a Netflix original (at least I remember it being one, now I'm not sure).
Love the frame by frame, breaking down shot by shot. Y'all do some good work, look forward to watching more.
It is both a Netflix original and a very good film! Thanks for checking out the video!
Absolutely incredible, detailed assessment, LOVE this.
The Hal kind of throwing his sword away bit, the second to last major action of the fight, strikes me as entirely possible to do in the heat of a truly fatal fight, no matter how much experience one has by that young age. Maybe if you've been fighting for decades and the sword is truly one with your hand, I could see it being hard to believe, but.
On the other hand, The Fifth was obviously trained since youth and seemed to be one of the toughest and most self-motivated kings of the lot, so I suppose it's tough to believe from that viewpoint. Anyway, just some rambling reflections of my own.
Thanks again, awesome vid!!
Thanks mate some great observations. There's some excellent discussion in this (now long) comment thread with others discussing how throwing away the sword may be about balance and other such theories. All which I think are very plausible! Which is awesome, I love being schooled (and that people also want to see the best in the choreography!)
I can say one of the few netflix exclusive produced gems of a movie. The KIng is a fantastic movie.
Thank you for making this!
No problem 😊