Fight Scene Autopsy: Geralt vs Renfri and Blaviken
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- čas přidán 14. 01. 2020
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In this episode of Fight Scene Autopsy - the most pedantic overly detailed analysis of movie fight scenes on CZcams where I review them for how realistic they are in respect to historical combat - I analyze the fights from Netflix The Witcher TV series of Geralt Vs Renfri and his fight with her henchmen in Blaviken.
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Shad your book was awesome, one of the best I've read in years!
Just finished the book myself. I agree it was very good.
It’s ebook right name if you don’t mind
Nice. I just bought it, but haven't read it yet. My best friend borrowed and read it, said she wants more. :)
@@RhinoBarbarian Yes, because I am in the middle of reading the Lightbringer series by Brent Weeks atm. So why not. :) But she was strictly forbidden to spoil anything. XD
It's on my reading list glad to hear some good reviews.
"There is no way I'm going to watch a 72 minute frame-by-frame teardown of a 2 minute fight scene"
72 minutes later: "hmm."
fuck
Wind’s howling
Looks like rain
Im 40 minutes in and saw this comment. holy shit i didn't even realize. No regrets though
*S T E N C H*
"Her back is facing Geralt more often than her front." Just like the night before...
Was that really necessary
@@valleyrover4958 Yes. Yes it was.
Absolutely necessary.
Geralt was planning ahead and wore her out before the actual fight! Now that's swordsmanship
@@ilushan1
Truth be told I thought she slept with him to throw him off and make him think she was going to leave blaviken. Sure enough when they do fight he's conflicted
About Geralt's spins... All his spins perfectly makes sense. He dazes the opponents by the sight of his dashing ass.
Same goes with Renfri, she's distracting Geralt with all her assets ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
@@CSSuser WhY aRe YoU oBjEctIfying WAmen
@@adityagupta6013 Yeah true, they're doing it fine themselves, don't need my help :P
I mean, if there is one thing the world can agree on, Henry Cavill is pretty damn easy on the eye... xD
true ^^
I find it unreasonably funny how the auto-generated subtitles keep mishearing "Geralt" as "the girl". Like yeah, the girl. The six foot built-like-a-brick-shithouse girl. That one. Gotcha.
It's probalby partially because of Shad's accent in Geralt is on the second syllable. He says over and over geRAl not GEralt - and geRAL can sound a bit like "girl"
@@mahrcheen yeah no shit my dude
KonnichiBeaucoup
do you mean Abby from tlou2?
She's not 6 foot but..
It's not his accent it's simply because he doesn't know how to pronounce Geralt correctly.
I played the Witcher 3 twice, played the Witcher 2: Assassin of Kings once, and I continue to die as Shad mispronounces Geralt as GER-alt instead of Gaer-alt.
that "ting" sound when geralt is "not hitting anything" in 14:40 is actually when parrying another crossbow bolt
i was about to comment this as well
@@kaas11dor lol just commented then read this
was gonna say that
Yeah! I thought that was an excellent and really cool way to fill the gap between encounters
@@maxxcurtis4418 It also explains why the crossbow guy is bent down reloading in the next shot. The continuity in this scene is excellent.
14:07 That swipe parried an arrow. You can see the arrow.
I can't believe Shad missed that
also if you look closely you can see blood at the end of the blade a possible contact with the falling guys throat or collar bone idk which.
@@wubz2879 well i didn't see that either
nicely spotted
I also can't believe he missed that. But hey, no one is perfect 👍
I feel like there's a difference between "not trying to kill someone" and "trying not to kill someone" lol
The first one is not trying
and the other trying not to
in the first one the killing action isn't made, r at least isn't made intentionally.
in the second one an action (not necessarily a killing action) is made in a way in which the actor wants to avoid killing a person.
I guess they never heard of knocking someone out .... did he think she was wearing an iron skullcap?
The first applies well to accidental actions or poorly/unplanned actions. The second applies to purposeful actions.
“Not trying to” would be simply holding back full strength and prioritizing knock outs/take downs over critical strikes to fatal areas.
“Trying not to” is deliberately avoiding any and all attacks that could fatally harm the opponent, except in cases where to do so would involve your own death.
“Refusing to” is pretty self explanatory lol
Fun note on Geralt's sword skills. Its actually noted in the books that his sword skills aren't amazing and are kind of lazy. He relies on the fact that he's so much faster then any normal person and most witchers even to compensate for it. Just to add funny tid-bit to this that alot of people probably don't know. Thanks for the awesome video Shad. Like always👍
Exactly. But Geralt is still at the very least competent swordsman. He knows how to rather well, he knows he knows and he can't help to implement them anyway. In this specific fight he was very, very angry and he made a conscious choice to go with literally brute force and speed. In this instance everything he does needs to be seen as a show of strngth, speed, rage and contempt for the opponents. That is why he deliberately hampers himself to show Renfri's henchmen they don't have a chance of snowflake in hell. I think it is even mentioned in the book that Geralt himself looked at it as a butchery, and that was on purpose, because he was forced to it, so he attempted to minimize the killing by making it as gory as possible to break Renfri's hold on the poor souls.
I thought his skill were amazing, he just did not fight with all of his skill on purpose?
@@echoesofwrath1125 oh he's an amazing swordsman without a doubt. But by witcher standards(in the books at least) he's considered a bit sloppy. Its even stated that Eskel in particular is a far more impressive fighter technique-wise. Geralt just out-paces him in sheer physicality due to the extra mutations he was subjected to.
@@LandonTBrock Exactly. Geralt is much stronger and faster than any human, still faster and stronger than other witchers. This is most of Geralt's strong points, witcher training notwithstanding (which is excellent on it's own and very combat oriented). Technically, even - or rather especially - when fighting monsters technique is very useful, but even basics will do, taking into account all of the extras Geralt brings to the fight: speed, strength, reflexes and most of all training is superior and decisive, with swordmastery being "just" the glue holding it all together.
This is why I agree Shad is misreading this fight as genuine effort, while all it is pure showing off and utter contempt for the opposition by fighting as sloppily as possible.
Yes, Leo Bonhart - human head hunter - could probably have some changes against Geralt. He is told in the book to have killed witchers before. Ciri kills him because, well, Getalt trained her, and she is no ordinary human either.
The truth behind Renfri's mutation: she was fused with a Beyblade
This comment deserves more likes.,🤣
Her mutation was manipulation. Geralt sparked his spell to protect and cancel her powers. Based on the entire scene he was holding back and only defended. He even gave the NPC thugs a chance to flee by only killing them after they would attack. The defensive way Geralt fights is very subtle with the way he holds his sword and gives people the choice. Going to have to watch this all again. Thanks Shad.
Or she tryed spinjitzu :D
BEYBLADE LET IT RIIIIIP
@@RGC-gn2nm
That's a slight /Whoosh.
“You can clearly see Geralt doesn’t want to fight her”
*2 seconds later*
“WHY ISNT HE KILLING HER???”
BRUH
@@realnamehidden1314 Geralt not wanting to kill her doesn't excuse the shoddy fighting. If that's her style, by spinning around like a tard all the time, she's gonna get sliced up. It's like saying to your mate not to be too rough and still expecting everyone else to abide by this, it just doesn't fit the greater narrative. You're looking at this too much in a vacuum.
Also you're ignoring the dumb spins Geralt is shown to perform a few times. She's certainly trying to kill him, why's he leaving himself open? There's cocky and then there's suicidal.
Ryder Paul-Lepke that’s what I was thinking too
I dont think Shad has read the books..
This is no fucking excuse.
At 57:55 spin, he could have literally TACKLED HER WITH HIS BARE HANDS, she is so exposed. Or at least disarm her.
Not to mention that he could have slashed her legs or did some other non lethal strike to stop her.
@@Archimedes.5000 But at 39:10 Shad's heavily criticizing Geralt for hitting her with his hand instead of his weapon. That's not a criticism of her fighting style and had Geralt used his sword for that hit then he would have killed her. Geralt trying not to kill Renfri doesn't excuse the times that they leave their guard open or the times that Geralt could have ended the fight non-lethally, but it does excuse Geralt not taking advantage of lethal strikes.
The only "unrealistic" thing about the fight was that they all didn't run away after he opened the first guy's head up like a tuna can
Exactly. You dont *have* to coreograph a fight scene where one person flawlessly counters 3 people at once, people run away
They actually reference that earlier when he's talking with the old sorcerer - he said she could bewitch people
@@Mythralblade04 I called bullshit on that when I saw the show, but after playing Blood and Wine and seeing Syanna, I realized that was entirely true. She manages to control a fucking higher vampire. That's something Renfri couldn't have even dreamed of, and they're both Black Sun children
exactly loool
...more so... when Geralt deflected the bolt... I'd shirt my pants seeing that if I were them..
I'd like to think that everything you're saying is completely canon, and Renfri is spinning and doing these strange stances thinking "yeah, I'm such a badass!" While Geralt is just like "what the fuck is she doing?"
Then he should have just tackled her. This entire sequence is clearly meant to tell us that a princess with a few years of experience as a brigand is able to hold her own against a 100 year old superhuman who's been drilled in swordsmanship for his entire life.
@@GrimgoreIronhide I believe the point of the scene was to show Geralt having restraint, mate. It's not like he was actively trying to kill her throughout the fight.
@@KOHoxtonYeah, there were a couple points in the fight where he could have killed her easily and didn't. He finally just got pissed and let all his witcher ability loose on her and ended the fight in 5 seconds or so. The bottom line here is don't fuck with a Witcher. Even in a collectable card game. He WILL have a better deck than you.
Reminds me of the Rosa var Attre questline in the third game. Geralt likes to make mincemeat of slightly trained princesses.
I completely agree with this. Given the skill difference between them, I would almost say this comes close to hitting the same level as Darth Vader toying with Luke in The Empire Strikes back. Obviously Geralt isn't toying with her, he's being forced to fight a battle he doesn't even want to be in, but there's that same level of skill difference. And, like some else said in reply to this, once he got serious he ended it in about five seconds.
Henchmen: *has telegraphed moves and useless armour*
Shad: So, you have chosen death.
And they move very slowly and can't see straight, either. Not to mention, they trip when trying to walk forwards. They also wait until the hero attacks, first. Charming characteristics!
Against a Witcher who is strong enough to slice through a padded gambeson with ease…
I would forgo any armour to free up as much movement as I can to maybe level the playing field, however useless that would be against a superhuman.
But I highly doubt the Brigands being that thoughtful. Or the writers considering it.
(Not that I didn’t still enjoy the fight, no question about that)
Interestingly enough, the "henchmen" in this fight, in the books, are a famous and well trained bandit company.
They should know better than to telegraph their blows 😂
Ah, man of culture i see :D agree w your comment
this is something i am willing to give them pass for.
Well, those are the books. In this version they clearly are just a bunch of not too skilled thugs, barely communicating with each other. If they'd try to directly play how it was in the book, the bandits would just randomly fall down from strikes of something black flying from a crowd of people running around screaming in fear.
Also - regular cutthroats/bandits should be decent with weapons no matter what
These are no peasants with woodaxes but somewhat experienced men
@@kamildziuk3643 Keyword is "somewhat". They are cutthroats, used to scaring off peasants, and maybe owerwhelming small groups of untrained militia, robbing traders who aren't able to effectively resist, or inhumans, who usually are in bad shapes outside of their domains. Combat with an opponent who is a capable fencer and trained in martial combat? I doubt they've ever met those in fight.
14:13 if you look close he actually deflects another crossbow bolt
You're right. The camera picked up the fletching for one frame. Maybe would have been good to digitally enhance that.
To be fair, her fighting style ends with her dying to someone that didn't wanna kill her. So in that regard it's realistic. :D
Her fighting style in this piece of shirt tv show is a dum, unresearched, semi professional bull crap. If you get my meaning ;) ... Now, were it done like in THE BOOK...
“Ehh, Solid decapitation” lol only on Shadiversity.
Have you played for honor lol
I find your lack of faith.. disturbing
"You are as clumsy as you are stupid"
Not enough pommel
The real reason Geralt used reverse grip:
He was flexing on the henchmen
Yup. Geralt is basically going "seriously? I kill monsters FOR A LIVING."
I know something you don't know...."I am not left handed..."
@@generalyi6323 I'm looking for a 6 fingered Strigia
Like Riddick saying "I'll kill you with my teacup"
Pretty much.
13:49 Geralt actually hit the inside of that guys leg, propably cutting through the artery which can cause you to pass out for a few seconds.... and is inevetably lethal as well....
it doesnt excuse the strange fighting style, though ;)
Also, as someone who have had a knee ruined under them, if his blade touched the tendons on the inside of the knee in any meaningful way, it doesn't matter how much adrenaline you got in your body, that leg simply won't support you anymore until healed.
I suspect the reality is Cavill missed his mark in the take (the extra looks like acted like he was taking a stab to the chest to me), but because it is a genuine Long Take, resetting and re-filming would take time they perhaps didn't have so just decided to call it fine. Long Takes look so much better than quick-cuts but can be a big drain on filming schedules and energy levels of cast and crew. Imagine if this is the third or fourth attempt, Cavill and the Goons are only going to be able to do so many more takes before they're utterly exhausted and the camera crew were apparently right up close so they're in the thick of it as well, so I suspect it was a "nah, that's fine, we'll run with it".
Me watching Geralt using Aard in this fight scene: Hmm... must not have any points into it.
Might have far-reaching aard. But his sign intensity is nonexistent.
Lol.
He didn't have any Adrenaline Points to upgrade it to max.
He put more points into fighting and alchemy. Let’s hope that by season 2, he will take that Druid potion and reconfigure his perks a bit.
Would make sense considering it's decades before the events of the Witcher 3. Cant speak to the other games, though. Have em, haven't played em yet
Gerard: "I'm so good, I can win even while using reverse grip!"
Renfri: "Ha! I can win while spinning!"
Gerard: "That all? I don't even need to hold my sword by its grip! Holding it by the crossguard is enough against you."
* Geralt
Garen style eh
@@NeocrimsonX Spin 2 Win
@@leetri yup
Hell, in the games, if he rolls ponderously around on the floor, he's invincible.
In a nutshell: Renfri is wide open and Geralt is hesitant to kill her.
I guess someone could theorize she wanted him to kill her
@@crose1466 She did in fact want that. She felt it was the only way she would stop.
I thought it was kinda clear he was reluctant to kill her for most the fight.
Chris Lucas exactly, they even had a flashback to establish that he would be reluctant
you may say Renfri is wide open and Geralt is hesitant to go for the thrust.
:lennyface:
This fight could have been 1 minute if Geralt didn't hold back.
When he actually fought back, it lasted like 10 seconds.
14:30 if you look closely the noise when he “doesn’t strike anything” is him deflecting another bolt
Ahhh I did not realize that's what It was, thanks for filling that In.
I just went to check to see if anyone had thought to say that. I went back and saw just a flicker of motion he was swinging at and realized what it was.
Imagine doing a 72 minute breakdown analysis on a 2 minute scene and missing such obvious details. Like most medieval experts they just wanna bash everything for not being completely realistic. Even when you watch those "The Breakdown" where they have experts reacting to movie scenes they can at least understand artistic liberties and fantasy elements. Why does everything need to be 100% realistic?
Shad really is stuck in hid nerd perspective with not even a surface understanding of the basics of filmmaking.
Shad: "This choreography looks more like dances then actual fight"
Showrunner before premiere: "I will say immediately that we wanted to do fights to look more like dances than actual fights" ;)
That's how Geralt's fighting style is described in the book. Like a dance.
The fast attack style is even referred to as the Fire Dance.
Source, please? The showrunner's quote.
@@AngelicHunk my bad it was Vladimír Furdík not showrunner and sorry I'm on my phone so I can't copy full quote. "In fact, Cavill was picking up fight choreography for scenes in ... I tried to give him a kind of style which is more like dancing"
which then realistically means that anyone with average and above skills with a sword would be able to beat geralts dancing move, it's like putting a boxer or a MMA'er against someone who uses Capoeira.
"i'll try spinning that's a good trick" - Anaspin Spinwalker
I got the impression that Renfri's spinning was an attempt to make reading the angle of her attacks more difficult. It's clear to her that Geralt doesn't want to kill her, and it's clear to her that she cannot reasonably beat him in a straight up fight, so she is trying to sneak a hit in from a direction he can't read because she has it obscured.
Plus the spinning keeps her hair moving which allows the stunt double to be in more.
I don't think they used a stunt double for the scene. The actress was trained for the fight.
“Tries to disarm him but ends up dis-handing him.” IM DEAD 😂😂😂😂😂
DISHANDING 😳😳😳oh no ouch aaaaah
I feel like she gets away with all the spins because she expects him to not cut her down. And she’s right, because most of the fight, he’s trying to get her to stop fighting, not to stop living.
No she just has bad style - like kung fu in real life. Her master should be decapitated by Heralt for greater good. Then Heralt's master should be killed for the same.
oneof Yus does your G key not work? Lol
@@spiderodoom nah, i'm just litlle stupid sometimes.
Why doesnt he kick her in the back of the knee?
eddie kalista agreed, she was surprised when he actually killed her
To be fair, if I was that last guy I'd have probably just given up too. Geralt has cleaved through all my friends like they weren't even there and he's clearly more skilled than me. I also have some weird makeshift weapon that looks like something a butcher might use and is definitely not ideal against dual-wielded swords. Let's just end it quickly but still look like I put up some sort of resistance.
"yeah.. just block once, look grumpy and stand in the doorframe, he won't be able to chop your head off th..."
Ironically that guy was the most durable, he managed to parry Geralt and then block one of his slashes.
Right? That's a problem in a lot of movies and games: If our hero can demonstrate pretty clearly that he is basicly untouchable and can easily kill anybody coming at him, people should back down if they aren't crazy or drugged. Like - humans are not really prone to putting their lifes at risk at the best of times (okay, I guess with half a dozen to one they had reason to feel safe) but when your allies are dropping like flies, people tend to reconsider ...
I think Geralt deflecting the bolt and killing the guy that run at him at the start with the ease that he did should probably have sufficed to stop the others in their tracks.
@@abcdef-cs1jj yep, if I had just shot a crossbow at someone and he deflected it without even blinking just to proceed to rip a guy's skull from his jaw while still staring at me, I'm pretty sure I'd leg it.
Except all members of the gang were a) close friends b) hardened criminals c) extremely loyal to Renfry.
Geralt has enhanced strength on top of being in peak physical shape. A "tap" from his blade might have a lot more power behind it than any well trained swordsman. Not trying to excuse bad technique, just saying he could potentially get away with some unconventional (possibly more effective) ways of dispatching his foes. Also... he supposedly fights monster more so than humans, his style and motor patterns ( = muscle memory?) might be adapted thereafter.
While that does not explain the reverse grip, I agree he can get away with some spins simply due to his enhanced speed. Also, they had to give him at least a few spins because in the games apparently he spins like a carousel.
@@g.strobl4458 Actually, in a few interviews about the show they explain why Geralt spins SO much - and it's because he's got enhanced speed, yep. But on top of that he's a monster hunter and his fighting style is more about engaging mobs of wild creatures than men, so his fighting style revolves a lot (pun intended) around surviving while surrounded.
@@Mythralblade04 actually those spins are the fighting style of the witchers, they dont learn to "fight" but to "dance"
@@harshkrishna8402 Exactly. The Witcher (Wolf school at least) fighting style revolves around surviving while surrounded - fighting monsters.
It would explain that for a normal weighted blade. But according to the books witcher swords are significantly lighter. So it balances out in a situation like this
Geralt after blaviken:
I killed them, I killed them all. And not just the men, but the one woman and historic accurate fencing too.
This wasn't fancing. It was a dual
Geralt:
Renfri: I'll try spinning, that's a good trick!
"Hmmm..."
@Wim actually he doesn't want to fight her, Henry Cavill explained it in that way: Gerald begs Renfrie to go away, to be no monster to not force him to kill her.
@@Talashaoriginal yeah, but Geralt could have striked her head with the back of his blade... Or just kicked her lmao
@@Archimedes.5000 Yes indeed.
[Geraldo The sex Wizard]
"let the girls think they met him but they didn't even come close"
1:10:12 what you said is exactly what the choreographers were going for. Geralts entire fighting style is like a dance.
I think that is a good explanation for the weird proportions of his sword. A Witcher must move quick but does not use a shield, so a two handed sword with the length of a regular sword is giving him much more moving speed and agility...
@@legolars5122 a slightly longer blade gives you nothing but advantages; it's really not noticably heavier and the reach advantage would be invaluable. there really is no speed advantage in using an arming sword length blade compared to a longsword length blade when using a longsword grip.
@@legolars5122 why he don't just use a dagger then?
@@paulomelettilestrade can't fight a chort with a tiny ass knife
@@paulomelettilestrade dagger in a melee?
good lack with that mad lad
"Why does she want to die?" - read the story. This part makes some sense. Her henchmen storming to their deaths, less so.
You shouldn't have to read a book to understand a film. Books should maybe give more context but shouldn't be required to understand basic plot points.
@@Kyle-gw6qp Then it is a shortcoming in the films this isn't made clear.
@@johnw.3270 yeah that was my point
@@Kyle-gw6qp - can't speak for others, but not having read the book I got the gist of her drives as a doomed character, knowing she is a monster- as referenced by her comment about silver- that's she was going too far and had to be killed to stop her, and that she'd rather die in battle against a man she respected and even cared for than to a murderous sorcerer. That's what I came away from the film with. No idea if that's what the books explain, but that's what the series gave me
@@BreandanOCiarrai I understood it just fine but perhaps it wasn't clear to others
In 14:23 if you see closely enough you see Geralt actually did something, he deflected a bolt! Greate video as always :)
*"I used to be a powerful henchman, but a Witcher stabbed me in the knee."*
*Femur
"And lemme guess, someone broke your lute?"
My cousin is out there fighting monsters, and what do I get? Henchmen duty!
Gerald severed the guys femoral artery so he bled out in minutes.
Ok last comment. One thing you're missing in your breakdown is how momentem works in a fight... you can see this in boxing or other martial arts typically once someone goes on the defensive they will miss oportunities to counterstrike... when Renfrie had Geralt on the defensive it's plausible that she would be able to make wasteful movements because he's so concentrating on defense at the moment that he forgets to counter strike... mind you that's hard to believe with a swordsman of Geralt's supposed skill
Perhaps the reverse grip, in that it's limiting Geralt, shows that he's holding himself back, showing restraint, pulling his punches...
Exactly! You understand.
Geralt would have fought left handed, but that still would have been too overpowering. He had considered holding his sword by the tip and beating people to death with the handle, but he had heartburn that morning and ultimately decided on a reverse grip.
the reverse grip is very effective if you have a long blade in close quarters, fast paced engagement with several opponents with shorter weapons. Which ofc mr sha has no way of knowing because knowing crenellations doesn't mean he knows the first thing about sword fighting, or movie choreography in general ;)
Finwaell close quarters combat with long blades? Sounds like exactly what half swording is made for.
Even then, Skallagrim also bashed on the reverse grip.
@Flimsy Fever I was responding to Shad's views on the grip in question, not upon the character's overall motives...
One thing I would like to say about the sword toss being so off: That was really good choreography. This whole fight was done in a single shot (not one take, but they weren't cutting back and forth). That means when he throws that blade, he was still holding the real, physical sword of the guy before. He then throws it at the door, the CG team erases it while creating the kill blade. That way the guy isn't actually risking being beaned in a soft place like the groin or eye by a chucked prop sword, but at regular speed you can barely tell they did it. Really good work by the production team.
Pretty sure Renfry's spinning is to disguise the actor's lack of training. It looks flashy and prevents the usual action movie problem of un-skilled actors looking silly in combat (see Halle Berry in John Wick 3 when compared to Keanu Reeves; she looks so bad it takes away from the scene. It is obvious she has no skill at it, particularly compared to Keanu who is a really good fight actor). This looks better than having her do straight up fighting and looking bad at it as far as a regular audience is concerned.
Something to add about the bad strike angles; they are protecting the actors in the fight from edge contact. Though the props aren't sharp, the small surface area of the edges can still cause minor cuts and can also cause welts on your expensive actors who still have more scenes to shoot where they shouldn't be injured or show any signs of a fight. You can't see that stuff in regular speed very well, so it allows much better fight scenes than having to cut constantly to change props/stances.
About the actors lack of training. Henry Cavill has said in multiple interviews that the woman in this scene is actually the actresses (Emma Appleton) stunt double, Lucy Cork. Cork is very good at her job and knows what she is doing. So I think this scene had a lot of potential but maybe they just wanted something that looks cool (if you don’t analyse it too much😂).
@@iunnoskjonsdottir8498, Cork is only where you can't see her face, naturally, but the parts where you CAN see the face have to blend smoothly with Cork's material, so that might be the reason for making the spins a consistent style. (Other than that, from what I hear, the games were spin-heavy.)
@@g.strobl4458 Yes they are. It also gets mocked sometimes in-game that especially geralts fighting style is spin heavy. But Renfries is that x10
I thought the same thing in regards to him chucking the sword at the door. He didn't actually want to hurt the extra wielding the crossbow, and like you said with the small surface area, a prop sword thrown into your chest at that distance might still have pierced your skin. At the very least it would have left a helluva welt.
Shad, if you noticed, Geralt frequently switches between reverse grip and standard constantly. Though he does use the reverse grip at odd times in places, it is usually because the move he done before that made since for the reverse grip, then had to attack again before being able to change it back. At one point he even swings the sword by the guard because he needed more time to switch grips but needed to keep offending her. It is an unorthodox fighting style, but he can get away with it because he is canonically so much faster and stronger than everyone else.
In a nutshell, "She's wide open!"
Very enjoyable video, hoping for the day a fight scene does spins perfectly.
... from the night before this fight. Very wide open!!!
@Victor Fabrício Also it's not like Geralt lacked for spins in the games even when fighting humans, it's possible they took inspiration for his weird style in the show from that.
It would be nice if the swordplay/spins were consistently tighter/more appropriate like the ones he does in the fight with the thugs though. Hell, it'd be more interesting if he was the only person to do spins at all if it's literally a combat style witchers are trained for to get as much power behind a swing as possible, would explain any imperfections in their style against people since fighting humans isn't their focus.
The Anakin ObiWan fight had far more that were valid/useful than the "he's wide open" type. Great choreo and training for that film
Honestly I personally explain it as he isn't trying to kill her:he deliberately passes on the openings. While that doesn't necessarily mean it was choerographed to deliberately show him passing on openings, it is (imo) an easy and plausible way to explain why he doesn't strike her in those moments.
And it is possible that they WERE trying to convey that Geralt was allowing it to be drawn out: Henry Cavill does say in an interview that the part with the henchmen was supposed to be one side of Geralt (the monster hunting, killer, side) and the fight with Renfri another.
Now, as far as why she (a supposedly amazing, albeit not Witcher level, swordswoman) would leave herself open in the first place is less explainable. Perhaps she wanted to die, or wanted to see if he would kill her, but exusing that feels more like reaching.
He wasn't trying to kill her tho, at least in the book IIRC. I've not watched the Netflix series (except for this fight scene) but it seemed like he very much did not want to kill her here either.
that moment when Geralt struck "something" after stabbing the guy in the thigh, he deflected another bolt, giving us information that the guy with the crossbow is still there, firing.
Absolutely right, also a nice detail is that most of the people in this fight (unlike in TLJ) aren't just faffing about, we see the crossbowman reloading and the others backing away as Geralt proves profficient at killing their allies
Thank you, I didn’t know if anyone else noticed that. It’s quick but you can see sparks, debris, and the shaft of the bolt go tumbling away.
Good catch
It's only there for a couple frames, makes it easy to miss.
Good catch! Totally would have missed that a hundred times at full speed.
"she's essentially committing suicide"... That applies to almost all fights against geralt haha... I love "why does she want to die???"
I've seen a video of Henry Cavill breaking down this scene and the reason why the blade often doesn't actually connect is because for complex and/or dangerous scenes containing a lot of blood and gore they use a cut-off sword, which is only half length, but they have to perform like it's full length, so he's actually blocking and stabbing with nothing. The henchmen scene was all filmed in one shot, so they used the half length sword in the entire scene and edited the blade in later.
"Grolt of rivia"
-australian man on the witcher 2019
"Gerolt" kek
Drove me nuts tbh. GaROLT vs GArolt. 😑
Better than Garold
i'm Australian and his pronounciation is pissing me off >:(
As an Australian (NSW region so it might difer) I can confirm that everyone I know says Geralt properly
Clearly Geralts fighting style is way off, he havent ingested any food during the fight.
^ me, not realizing I wasn't using my silver sword and then somehow unbinding attack while fighting a djinn
Rip durability
Not enough swallow or igni
Clearly neither knows how to fight and get paid to play pretend
@@dasparado I bet the actor who plays geralt knows how to fight after all he went to a sword fighting school it's the directors fault for the bad fighting after all in an interview it was said that there was no skill needed in sword fighting for the part of geralt so its the people who made the shows fault for the bad fighting
I feel like Geralt's lack of murdering Renfri throughout this entire scene isn't because he doesn't know he can but because he doesn't want to. Like he's just trying to let her tire herself out or something.
When you said that Geralt just blocked/hit something that didn't exist and that it was movie magic, that was a crossbow bolt from the same guy who shot the first. You can even see the bolt going towards the ground in slow-mo.
14:37 he actually deflected a second bolt in this part, best way to see it in regular speed. its pretty cool if you ask me :)
damn... he truly did.
I think that also explains the fault Shad saw before that one where he pointed out that the guy seems to have died to a leg stab, but I think that reverse grip sweep where he deflected the bolt was also meant to have finished the guy behind him off, slashing him up the torso.
Noticed this as well, was quite surprised to see as something so small you'd miss it, but thanks to Shadiversity's slowing of the scene you can just enough make it out.
Also the reason he kind of spins that guy before he cuts his hand off is because hes keeping the guy in the crossbows line of fire or at least thats what I interpreted it as.
@@mitchellsmith746 yep, that would make sense
14:10 the ring is actually him deflecting another crossbow bolt, its hard to see it but it flies by in the span of about 3 frames
Yup, can confirm, saw it right away in the episode even. Geralt is supposed to be ridiculously skilled and brutal, i don't think he ever uses a full on reverse grip though...
Yeah, you can see the bolt in the shot for a hot second.
Not to mention you can see the guy with the crossbow reloading
I came to comment this too. I'm glad I checked if anyone already had.
13:40 the way Geralt stabbed him looks like he probably severed the femoral artery. That is a death stroke lol
not instantaneously though
@@theangryMD well within 30 sec
@@jameskirk8274 Ample time to hack Geralt's head off with his axe :D
@@simont.2145 probably not, the immediate drop in blood pressure when you are in a high stress situation from a cut artery can cause you to pass out in a few seconds, death follows very quick since a drop in pressure caused the body to constrict blood vessels to raise the pressure back up and you heart goes into overdrive which actually causes you to bleed out much faster.
Everybody knows wounds below the waist don't count as actual wounds, though, duh...
This gets painful to watch because Shad misses the point entirely for most of the breakdown between Geralt and Renfri. Yes, FFS, Geralt is trying not to kill her, he says so and is completely obvious about it in the way he's fighting. That means Renfri ALSO knows this. Renfri knows she's no match for Geralt, his entire being has been designed to kill creatures like her, he is beyond lethal. She's a mouse attacking the cat. She doesn't even make a pretense of defending herself and does whatever wild, crazy attacks she can muster. She is all aggression because she knows the only thing stopping Geralt from killing her at any instant is Geralt, not some proper sword form. She also doesn't care if she dies, the story has made it fairly clear that's actually her biggest desire.
So you see Geralt slowly escalate the demonstration of his skills to try to get her to submit. He knows it's a lost cause, he's been through all this countless times before, but it's something he has to do, he wants her to understand fully before making her choice. Even the final display of power from him is a lesson, he purposely uses his sword oddly to show how effortless it all is while ending up with his sword at her throat. Then, as the lesson should fully sink in for her, he switches his grip on his sword to a real one in a clear show that he is done with lessons, and it's up to her if she lives or dies.
It's all part of what makes Geralt such an interesting character to me. He is a jaded, cold blooded, mass murderer, but he has a sense of decency about him. He lives in a world that constantly shows him there are no such things as happy endings, yet some tired part of him will always insist on leaving an option for things to work out, even if it means he gets stabbed a few times.
I agree. Also her "sword guard" could be read as an extremely over-elevated, aggressive "key" position, which is an actual guard, that does have its uses as a defense with the option to spin out in a parry or stab. But it mainly is a defensive position, which makes perfect sense narrative wise, as she is signalling out her own conflicting emotions extremely well: She is frustrated and desperate and hopeless. She knows he is better, she knows he won´t help her, and she doesn´t even want that. She known, she can´t beat Stregobor by her own, so her only other wish is to die, as she can´t endure her life any longer. But yet, as she is going in, all agggression and rage and provocation, to what in my book counts as "suicide by cop", she is still using a defensive position, either because a part of her is afraid of him (and rightly so), or because she hopes he will so much not want to kill her, that he gives in and listens to her, or both, and over all, she still is a programmed and triggered killing machine, against her own will, which is why she wants to be killed in the first place. She is forcing in while obviously holding back. Brilliant psychology.
Plus she is making up for the skill gap with pure aggression rather well. She has an offputting way of bouncing back to go in, and in, and in, with total disregard for her own life. For forcing him to kill her,against his will, really good.
So, yep, I dig that. Maybe questionable swordmanship by technicalities at display her, but for the psychology of storytelling and character portrayal, I found that particular scene actually pretty outstanding.
This would make sense, if Geralt himself at least used somewhat proper sword technique. He doesn't even hold the sword properly for a good deal of his fighting. You said it yourself "his entire being has been designed to kill creatures". This includes training, and he should at least know the proper way to hold a sword for god's sake.
Now on to her. She constantly presented her back to him. Over and over again she left herself wide open to attack. This left Geralt plenty of opportunity to disable her ability to continue fighting without killing her. He could have just repeatedly pommel smashed her in the back every time she did so until she was to bruised and battered to stand any longer.
@@VyperByteX As I said, I think him using the sword that way is to communicate how little effort it takes for him to handle her. It's like a boxer showboating by standing flatfooted with one hand behind his back, dodging all your attacks with body and head movements while peppering you with jabs. It would be completely clear to *both* parties what the end would be were you to persist.
You do have a point about Geralt being able to knock her out or otherwise disable her, and that is why Geralt is indeed a "jaded, cold blooded, mass murderer". He certainly always has the choice to try less lethal means, but to *him* , there's not much point. He could chain her up, tie her to the back of his horse, and spend weeks lecturing her on why she's wrong, but he's seen enough in his life to know once he unties her, she will, almost certainly, find a way to try to kill him, others, or herself again. This is the cynical (or realistic) part of Geralt's character, he will probably give you a chance to do right, but don't expect *two* chances because that's just a waste of everyone's time.
Geralt in that regard somehow reminds me of Takeshi Kovacs. A broken hero, fighting for his humanity.
I like this interpretation of this fight scene. I think I will go with this one :D Thanks for sharing it ^^
Renfri was like:
"I tried spinning. That's a good trick."
Christopher Matheney now this is podracin.....umm sword fighting this is sword fighting
“Spinning is not fighting...”
“But it’s a good trick!”
“Not in this case...”
Anakin: Nice job kid
I would like to see a movie where george lucas is playing himself and he's in a life or death situation and he's asking for help and the other characters tell him "try spinning. That's a good trick."
I would say renfri's fighting style is obnoxious, but consistent.
Consistently obnoxious
Is that a Jojo refference... Wait
Is that a jazza reference
I see you are a man of culture
True
This is my favourite ridiculous fight scene. It is very unrealistic but leans so hard into cool I can't even be mad at it.
Something dawned on me when you played the sequence back at 1:09:50 and that is Renfri's spinning causes her to face the camera almost every time and it makes me wonder if that was why they decided to choreograph it so. As you said, the camera work is impressively done and when Geralt blocks the strike to his back, Renfri's strike causes her once again to face the camera.
The whole time I was like, “why is he holding his sword the wrong way”
I tried it in my HEMA class. It doesn't work, especially if arm strength isn't your forte.
My pet theory is that this is cinematic language for "Geralt isn't the aggressor". Think about the alternative; He's not coming at them with his sword drawn and pointed at them as he advances, which would convey that he's targeting them. If he did, the audience would be interpreting this scene as Geralt being out for blood, which wouldn't jive with the narrative.
So the only alternative is a middle ground where he walks towards them, with his sword pointed away.
to go easy on plebs?
@@dvklaveren this is way too much credit to the choreographers. Literally was used for cool factor nothing else.
@@dvklaveren That was my thought and why he swaps to standard grip, he moves from "I don't wanna fight" to... "well shit's gotta get done"
Cavill actually indicates that in an interview, when he talks about how he wanted the style to seem different between when he was attacking the men (just getting them out of the way) vs when he was attacking Renfri. He says he switches back to the style that he used vs the men at the very end, after she tries to kill him with the knife.
That doesn't mean that the spins were deliberately done like that to indicate he is not taking advantage of her openings, although I do think it was, but looking at it that way helps me to enjoy the scene while ignoring those flaws (not that there aren't other flaws, as you pointed out).
It's plain and clear in the story that Geralt does not want to kill Renfri and Renfri wants Geralt to kill her...she deliberately makes openings, Geralt deliberately doesn't take advantage of them, until eventually she goes as far as to cut him and then he finally takes a killing blow.
@@davidbodor1762 She forced his hand and in a way wanted to be killed.
@@chinesecovidanalswabs4752 Yeah, if you look at it from her perspective - No matter what she does Stregobor does not come down from his tower until she's gone or dead. And killing that fucker is her life's purpose. So the plan is simple, get Geralt into the town and make him kill her, then after Stregobor comes down, Geralt would kill him out of guilt. But Geralt doesn't know he's being played, he feels guilty he wants to kill Stregobor and he probably would have if he didn't get the townsfolk on his side. Geralt does not want to kill any more innocent people, he only wants Stregobor, but Stregobor uses those people as his shield.
Renfri's plan almost worked...but in the end she gave her life in vain, that;s why Geralt carriers her broch throughout all of the series from there onwards.
David Bodor then why Gerald make voluntary openings... maybe Gerald is very noon swordfigter? Stupid? Suisaisidal? Trust his plot armor too much? This is as bad as throne room fight in Return of jedi... Gerald is really bad fighting...
@@haukikannel Geralt is not really the one making the openings as Shad says himself, the issue with him is he doesn't capitalize on the mistakes of his opponent which does make sense in the story.
And as Skallagrim says in his video on the subject - It's not like he really has to fight them seriously. He's a superhuman mutant, he's flexing on his opponents, intimidates them. These people are nothing for him, he could probably burn them alive with igni if he wanted to.
I think her craziness is partly explained by the fact that she not only knows he doesn't want to kill her, but she also doesn't really want to kill him so much as manipulate him into killing the wizard guy. He also should have been thinking about how to end the fight non-lethally, so he kind of fails at that.
The main difference and reason why I think geralt's character and way of fighting is so much better than everyone else's is because of how much research and actual training henry put into this part he even admitted to taking some dance classes.
Someone send this to Henry Cavill. He's a geek and will definitely try to improve the future seasons.
For a part. Part is savety. Probably didn't want to throw the sword into that actor who played the archer. Even when unsharp pretty damn painful.....
The opening scene with a mere sword whacking away a crossbow bolt shot nearby is stupid. The sword would be deflected by the bolt, not the opposite. It has weak momentum while the bolt has a huge amount of momentum. Simply stepping aside to avoid the bolt makes a lot more sense and I speak as someone who has done tons of medieval sword fighting and archery.
Emsnews Supkis I don't think the sword has weaker momentum than the bolt.
And moreover, the sword has much more mass
A great movie showing real fighting: Zatoichi Challenged, a samurai movie from 1967 is excellent. Google 'Greatest Japanese sword fight of all time' at You Tube.
@@thinhle96 The force of the bolt is concentrated on its tip. Slicing sideways is much weaker. Try doing this in real time. It isn't like batting away a fly or a ball. It is closer to trying to whack aside a bullet.
The way I read the scene was that
- Renfri had superhuman speed and reflexes that had helped her survive despite having no skills or training with swords.
- Geralt, who also has superhuman speed, was going out of his way not to harm Renfri, which is why she got away so much nonsensical stuff.
She had no formal training, and this is a shortsighted thing of the show, but in the books she became a really good sword fighter while surviving on her own and no regular human could defeat her iirc
This is it. That's what I understood. I thought everyone did too!
@@lilbrother21 Well it's sort of what happens with Eragon in the Inheritance Cycle after his transformation because his speed, strength, reflexes and stamina and beyond Captain America levels. He also has a special sword that can cut through regular steel like it was butter so he grows sloppy because no one can block him and he one hit kills everyone he meets until he loses his sword and now fights with regular swords and actually breaks several before he changes his technique under rigorous training from other super enhanced individuals ( the Elves) and then he actually focuses on technique again. The difference with Renfri is she was self taught so she doesn't know the proper techniques but she still beats everyone she meets because they love in slow motion compared to her.
pyropulse she wanted to die
14:14 he actually deflected another bolt. You can see it clearly if you pause in one of the frames there! :D
can we talk about how many times the girl's hair would've gotten into her eyes?
I have the same problem sword fighting a friend. No, I am not a girl.
When you can't see her face it's a stunt double. That's deliberate.
The reason Geralt is exposing his back to Renfri is so she’ll see his butt and seduce her to stop fighting 😂
Stupid sexy Geralt.
Genius plan
They both used same "look at my ass" technique butt failed.
Seeing an exploit in a frame by frame analysis and exploiting it in real time is completely different my friend
So it was mating call? Interesting tactic... Should I try it in the Bar? ;)
Reverse gripping the sword could be part of phycology warfare: "He dudes you are so not my league, I can fight in reverse grip and still trash you." Wich matches with Geralds somewhat confusing sometimes out of place but really likable attitude of preserving life.
I Think It's Jus For Show. Prolly No Meaning Behind It TBH
@@ajangmabior4606 geralt is fond of a jest, especially in combat. His sarcasm and taunts certainly arn't for the benefit of the monsters.
I thought something similar. It felt like Geralt was purposely fighting with a shit grip on his sword to just further drive it home that he's a Witcher and all the soon-to-be-corpses in front of him aren't. "You are so beneath me I'm not even gonna fight you lot properly." Giving them a purposefully visible handicap to enrage and demoralize them.
Precisely, I don’t think it was so much a show off as it was that he was trying to give them a chance to survive.
@@angelnichols5408 Exactly. If any of them had been smarter they'd have buggered off after he'd killed the first few of them. He was clearly more than they could handle.
The fight had a weird sort of “point of contact” issue because during shooting they used this sort of half sword where it was missing like a foot and half of actual blade and they worked around that and edited the rest of the sword in post.
18:50 come on Shad, you've played 3.5, if he casts a spell in melee they get an attack of opportunity, jeez use your head
When Renfri told Geralt "you chose" she is reffering to the fact that Geralt came back to the city and to face her and the gang.. not the fact who started the fight
Exactly. I just commented that before seeing you already said it.
Yeah, the choice between killing her or the mage guy.
wes8723 Yeah I’m kinda disappointed in shad on this one, he’s normally pretty decent about narrative but he’s missed some pretty major things, either he only saw this scene or just ignored that whole scene of Geralt being asked to kill Renfri.
@@SS2LP I assume he probably just forgot some of the details. He had said he watched the whole thing and made a general review. There's a lot of content and narrative packed into the 8 episodes, so i'd imagine he just forgot while making this video.
ArtifactADU Oh no doubt there’s a lot, thankfully each subplot is easy to follow and I adore the hints at the time gap with mousesack’s hair, great detail. Either way it kind of irks me that he missed the real point of this scene. He wrote a bloody book come on man.
The sound effect was Geralt deflecting an arrow
I was looking for this. 14:10, yup.
Beat me to it!
I thought it was slashing the dude's jaw.
finally some other people recognizing it!
You just have to remember that he’s basically a superhero so when it looks like other people are open and slow, he’s actually just moving really fast
entire grunt fight is one shot, that alone makes it a masterpiece
They went full reverse grip...
You never go full reverse grip.
Agreed, BUT if anyone could pull it off without getting killed, it'd be a Witcher.
Not only that! They went full spinning aswell!
@@Akeldama9 Like Eskel in Witcher 3
When Geralt seemingly swipes his sword in the air at nothing with the sound effect he's deflecting another crossbow bolt. There's one frame where the bolt is clearly visible
I saw it too. Good eye on you.
correct! was looking for this comment.
Hi Shad! Love what you did here and, if it's alright with you, I'd like to give thoughts on some things:
I know you called it a get out of jail free card but yes Geralt COULD have killed her many times throughout the fight he's not trying to. All he's basically doing during all those spins is just blocking and deflecting: he wasn't trying to kill her. More like wear her down. That's why he slapped/punched her as he did. If he wanted her dead, she'd have been dead within five seconds tops.
As for Renfri's mistakes in the fight, I don't take her as some elite warrior like Geralt is. She knows how to defend herself but she's mostly fighting out of rage and frustration. Have you ever seen someone fight with anger in any situation? Sword or just fists? They get pretty sloppy. Even swordsmen can get sloppy because human emotion and psychology does play a part in a fight. When a fight starts, not everybody is cool and collected, ready to provide perfect choreography and swordsmanship, let alone through the whole fight.
My favorite example of this is (and this might be a strangely random movie to refer to) the fight between Peter and the villain of the film Narnia: Prince Caspian. When they start out, sure they use tactics and precision but after a while of fighting in heavy armor, wielding heavy weapons, and exhausting so much energy: they slowly started to look swordsmanship and become sloppy. A couple wild swings out of anger, frustration, and just being damned tired.
I know this comment is already long and maybe I just come off as stretching but that's something that I've noticed in a couple of your fight scene autopsies. I think they are very well done and do show lots of genuine choreography errors so don't take this as me saying your videos suck because that is far from the truth: I personally think you neglect the human element to these fights. Physically, emotionally, and psychologically.
Anyway, I'm sorry for the length of this one and again, I'm not trying to sound bitter or hate on your video: I think it is awesome but I just thought I'd give my two cents on things and point out that some of these mistakes are actually very human-like in nature.
When Shad was talking about how the dude who got decapitated at 25:10 was probably too deep inside the doorway for Geralt to cut clean through without hitting the walls, I noticed that there were actually faint sparks where he slashed. He actually DID hit the wall!
I don't know Shad, I wouldn't mind Renfri presenting her back to me this often.
I don't know, her front's very presentable, too.
14.40 I'm pretty sure the "ting" sound was cause he was blocking another crossbow bolt
Yes, you can see the bolt
Yea that's what I'm seeing as well. Pretty cool imo.
You’d be correct but shad missed it. Oh well you and I know it
the guy is reloading right in the scene when he faces the other henchman and the crossbowman is in the backround
I am really damn confident, certain, and sure it takes a good minute to reload a crossbow. Google "rapid fire crossbows" and you'll find that not even a modern day craftsman has made one or there would be a video about it on CZcams and it would be so freaking cool.
When Renfri says 'You chose!' Renfri doesn't know that one of her henchmen attacked Geralt first. That's why she said that and not entirely convinced that Geralt doesn't want to kill her so she ends up attacking him. During mid fight, Renfri realizes that Geralt doesn't want to kill her, but she finds out that he's going to prevent her from achieving her revenge. That is why she continues to try and kill Geralt. For Renfri's performance, she doesn't actually have any combat training/experience like Geralt has. Hence why she is so sloppy in her stances and attacks.
I think this fight is really good at showing how erratic Renfri is being because she's angry and desperate and making mistakes, Geralt isn't taking advantage of these mistakes because he just doesn't want to kill her, hence being so much on the defensive rather than going for the openings she's giving him. that said, it's really interesting hearing the breakdown from a swordsman
"This amounts to her comiting suicide!"
Maybe that's the point: "I will lose and be killed if the Witcher doesn't side with me, so I will rather be killed by Gerald than to give my real enemy the satisfaction of winning over me"
"Suicide by Cop" is a thing, you know...
That was very much the impression I had the second time I watched the episode - that Renfri had a goal (kill Stregebor) but she also viewed herself as a monster... so death by Witcher wasn't necessarily the worst outcome in her mind.
Would she have though? She had the whole town under her gangs control, the mage was stuck in his tower afraid to face her at all until she was dead, magic couldn't harm her and she was a 'talented swordsmen' so it would have taken a rather skilled fighter to take her down if we ignore how bad she actually fights.
Literally the only problem she was facing was that she couldn't find and kill the mage, had she not died to the Witcher she most likely would have been fine if he hasn't been able to kill her all these years already.
@@Chaplain_Asmodai I mean if he isn't afraid to face her then he would exit his tower, but seeing as she is immune to magic and he doesn't want to leave his tower to kill her himself, I find it hard to believe that he isn't afraid of a very dangerous person that he legit can not fight at all.
I mean, why wouldn't he lie about not being a coward when he lied about a bunch of other things already?
She knew down her that her revenge is consuming her and making her the monster they believed she is. She pretty much chose to be killed by Geralt.
they fucked up the point of the short story (writing has been pretty meh the entire season). in the book, Geralt learns that she plans to take the civilians in the market hostage and start killing them until Stregobor comes out. so Geralt butchers them to prevent that.
Me: Geralt
Shad: Grrralt
*this is a joke, don't take it seriously*
*Gerohlt
*groot
its sad people have to specify that a joke is a joke, it says alot.
I wasn't aware at first now I can't stop hearing it
its a bit distracting every time he sais it XD
I still remember, to this day, an opponent (it was his first time, in his defense) did one of those terrible spins. The thing is, when sword fighting, everything happens in what they call "bullet time". It looked like he was slowly spinning. Long enough that I asked, "What are you doing?" to which he answered "dying I guess" which I did get him in the back. Now, it was sparring so nobody actually died. Spinning around and reverse grip drives me nuts but every movie thinks its the best thing ever.
"Dying I guess" - haha, I would have died of laughter at that. Brilliant!
Geralt had meet Stregobor, so Renfri & her men may have expected Geralt to attack on the orders of Stregobor. This could explain why they were so jumpy.
Shad Fact: Shad shot puts Death Stars, when he tries a little, he puts them into hyper space.
14:00 his backward strike slit the guy's throat.
Also, apparently Geralt has the strength to chop a guy in full plate armor clean in half with a Witcher's Steel Sword (its that durable). So... yeah. Those leather pads those guys are wearing? Not stopping anything from Geralt.
To be fair, we also see standard issue Nilfgaard swords cleaving right through Cintran full plate, so Shad does have a point. Geralt has super strength and a godly blade, but some random Nilfgaardian farmer with a cheaply mass produced sword and only ordinary strength shouldn't be able to break plate
Thank you for emphasizing how important camera work is when filming fight scenes, i can't stand when movies have sudden, jarring cuts at 50 different angles every 2 seconds.
To be fair, it was previously made clear that he didn’t want to kill her so the slap actually makes sense
Shad, The main issue of Renfri, is that her style is almost self taught, so it has many of the flaws a proper instructor would remove from her style...
If your style is self taught and this is your style, how are you getting this far? #diedbeforelevel2.
@@Joshuazx it's unorthodox enough to surprise someone not very experienced in swordfighting and she's never really had to fight someone skilled maybe so is used to fights taking no more than 2-3 spins? Maybe?
@@Joshuazx If you learn fighting from men that love you, this might happen. And if her magic makes you not want to kill her this style is somewhat excusable
@@kardaschow6482 Karda is right. Stregobor says that her mutation makes people want to obey her. It's entirely possible that she's never really been in a swordfight alone in her life.
Isn't it also implied that regular steel doesn't work on her well when she says silver does? So presumably, getting stabbed by an iron/steel dagger in the back wouldn't do much, and her sword is coming around the mountain after?
Not to forgive her garbage style, but I feel like semi-invulnerable people have little impetus to learn good technique. Kind of like how so many superhero fight like drunken children, but when you have super speed or super strength you win anyway.
24:37 - I am thoroughly disappointed with the outcome of this fight.I would like to know which Witcher school you hail from as I would be very interested in making a written complaint to voice my displeasure. Futhermore, I find your dealing of this situation shameful. Just look at the skill gap between you, my friends and I. This is harshly unfair. In future engagements, please be more considerate and inclusive about the people your killing. Thank you.
your (sic) killing
smh my head
@@alveolate shaking my head my head
Well this guy did try to pick a fight with him earlier in the episode.
"Make sure you address it to customer complaints, Kaer Morhen, Kaedwen."
I've just seen that when Geralt blocks on his back you can see the henchmen behind him wearing blue golves because they forgot to edit their chopped hands. Another one of those small things you don't see at normal speed, but that once you see it you can't avoid noticing it each time.
One of these days I just want to see a prominent character after a sword fight just TEAR into a defeated opponent about how horrible their fighting style was. We're talking pointing out where their mistakes were, questioning why they did the things they did, the works.
lol imagine geralt just giving renfri a lecture about proper technique after disarming her:
"I wasn't even holding my sword properly, it was so easy to defend against you, you stupid bitch!"
Hey Shad, quick thing, this entire fight was one take at speed. Cavil actually broke down the filming of this fight.
What my brain tells me that shad didnt watch it so he lacked knowledge about the fight
@Jon Danson it kinda does and doesnt
@Jon Danson Hey "Jon", I know but sometimes knowing what actually happened during filming can help review a fight. Because while some fights are sped up by dropping frames to make them look faster, a fight going that fast at speed is bound to have plenty of flaws due to safety concerns for everyone involved.
@Danil Zeitchik Shatunov immediately coming out as a huge knob, nice.
There are a lot of issues when you break the scene down. I'd like to make a note though, Geralt isn't trying to cause trouble. He didn't want to fight them. I think it's worth mentioning, a lot of the posing and the random toss of Aard weren't meant to be effective. They were meant to dissuade his opponents by showing them they're far outmatched, people hear talk of witchers super human abilities but some fools don't heed that advice. So the random toss of Aard (at minimum power as to not cause damage to nearby structures) was really Geralt saying "are you guys seriously this desperate to die?"
i would like to add that Aard and any kind of sign needs to be made with certain finger postitions thus using it mid fight might be problematic or even distracting for geralt
@@PostAloneD That's literally the point of the signs, to be used in combat.
i admit i wish they wouldve made this one use of aard a teensy bit more effective like if they actually stumbled back almost to the point of falling or maybe have cavill do an even smaller gesture as if hes flicking his wrist almost
@@PostAloneD Depends…
They are made to be very quick spells (the other spells are usually cumbersome and take a fair bit of setup), able to be used in appropriate openings with a few motions inscribed into muscle memory.
That being said, if used in the wrong moment, a Witcher could get his hand cut off.
And finally, after 1 hour and twelve minutes, we come to the end of your autopsy. A fight scene that actually only lasted for 1 minute 30 seconds, including the pre-fight sequence, right up to the actual killing blow. One hour and twelve minutes of pure tedium about one and a half minutes of fight scene. The actual speed of the 'fighting' was amazing, virtually everything you mention goes out of the window when you watch the speed of the combatants, repeatedly accept that one character is deliberately trying NOT to hurt the other, and realise that certain safety precautions have to be taken to prevent real injury, but can ONLY be seen when you slow the clip down and go through frame by frame. Well done Shad, a masterpiece of tedious rubbish. I've never even watched a single episode of that series, but I'd love to see you produce anything half as good as this with 'untrained' actors.
Very good review, and enjoyable to watch. I appreciated you giving Geralt a break on not slaying her about 25 different times due to story elements. But saying that Renfri is the worst example of swordplay is harsh. I understand why you do, and what you mean, but at least soften the blow and place the blame on the choreography and not the actress's execution, because the way she executed the very poorly designed swordplay was nearly flawless. Also those two times she is in guard with her left forearm/offhand weapon supporting her sword it's like the choreographer thought that type of guard when holding a shield looked really cool, and wanted to use it, but without a shield of any kind it looks incredibly silly.
Maybe a more structured grading system that grades choreography as a whole and then each actors' execution separately. Like Geralt holding the sword by the hilt was an intentional part of the choreography and was actually explained in some behind the scenes stuff, and he executed that brilliantly. How actually good would that element be in a real sword fight... not so much. So with taking into account the story elements of Geralt not wanting to kill her you forgive him not taking the free shots she gives him, but in the same vein to tell the story throughout the fight that Geralt really needs to be forced into it killing her, Renfri *must* be choreographed to give him some pretty obvious instances where the audience can plainly see that Geralt is INTENTIONALLY not killing her. Because the fight is intended to tell that specific story you have to cut the choreographer a little slack. For instance, that three times back and forth where she keeps her back to him and he very obviously actually has to try to not hit her with his sword is obvious during the second watch of the fight for me at regular speed, and for you and other experienced swordsmen it's obvious the first time. For many people who simply pay attention it was obvious he could have beheaded her when he first slapped her, but intentionally didn't bring his sword around.
I'm also a bit more inclined to give the choreography and Geralt a break on the reverse grip, because they needed to give him a handicap somehow, as he was fighting an opponent with a shorter blade than his own and probably a foot shorter and over 100 lbs lighter, and when you combine your knowledge of sword technique I think it's fair to say that using a reverse grip is a pretty big handicap. Without the reverse grip it would have been a lot harder to make the fight look even somewhat balanced at all because he would have just immediately wrecked her halfway on accident.
Wow, I need to get out of quarantine... these essays I'm writing are ridiculous. I don't usually care enough about my own thoughts about this type of stuff to even explore them internally, let alone write a book about it as a reply to a really good video.
@Nonoffensive Username I'm almost certain you didnt read the entire post, because I wrote it 8 months ago and forget what was said and even I looked at its length and said "no fucking way am I reading that to figure out what exactly I said that makes this random think I simp for Renfry."
theough most of the fight he really doesn’t want to make any strikes at her, he just blocks and evades, up until the end when he decides she will not stop, he would have killed her before she made her first advance, he just simply didnt want to kill her
Yes this is why he doesn't take advantage of her spinning. Unfortunately, Renfri really shouldn't be doing those spins in the first place. But it is used to tell a nice story about both of them
Jacob Clagg it makes sense to her though. She’s used to fighting travelers, not trained swordsmen.
Yeah thast what he said in the video
My interpretation is that even at the end he doesn't intend to kill. They're moving pretty fast, and the dagger is in her hand, not his.
I don't know why he just did not tell her (to be fair, growl at her) "Let's leave this place and if Stregabor follows you I'll kill him myself." He is such a beefcake no woman could refuse that mutant or no.
Geralt wasn't fighting to kill Renfri. He was just waiting for an opportunity to disarm her....
His also just toying with those goons...
he could at least give her a kick in the arse when she insists on directing it his way for 10 full seconds but yes, I took it the same way.
in canon humans think spins etc. are dumb as hell (yay, correct canon) so I suppose he was really, really taking the piss with his spinning and reverse grip. they could've done cooler things with the massive skill gap between all of them but I suppose this is alright (compared to so many other fights it's really good)
@@oyblech8671 i havn't rad much of the books, but in the games he loves to flourish in combat. His mentor vesomir complains about it and berates him for it, even while hes nearly a century old. Even ciri adopts the show offy style somewhat and geralt comments on it.
Geralts whole theme is dark humor, he is not a serious man regardless of how cold he tries to act and how shit his enviroment or situation is. Even while about to be fucked up by a monster he makes sarcastic remarks, swears or taunts the monester. of course he is the only one who benefits from this, the nuance of sarcasm is lost on all beasts save roach after all.
Given all that, in additon to his expressions during some of the poses, it would be safe to assume he was making fun of Renfris style and intentionally trying to have fun with dispatching the bandits.
It's not always obvious in the show, but he has nearly 90 years of training/ practice, is nearly 7 feet tall, reflexes honed from both bestial mutations and experience and twice as strong as the average 7 foot tall warrior.
However that all assumes either the books mirror this or the show is taking insperation from the games. as for the reverse grip, i have no idea. I think its a stretch to say it was just to challenge himself or humilate the enemy as he uses against renfri and the goons.
@@kodaxmax I wouldn't take the games as example for these things; the flourishing stuff is (if I'm not mistaken) the 2nd to last skill in the quick attack tree. it makes sense for the game mechanically.
and it makes a lot of sense for the show to do the same but if at all possible in a good way (the 2nd goon kill) and not in the beyblade way (renfri standing with her arse toward him and slicing behind her). as I said, I have no idea whether icepick grips are in the books or are even mentioned at all in canon; since they are so impractical I hope they are not and they will disappear as the show goes on but if there is any situational benefit to be had, sure, why not go for it? might look pretty cool
@@oyblech8671 i didn't mean the skill. i mean in the game he does stupid overswings and spins as part of the attack chains he starts with. it stuck out to me, because it makes the combat feel very akward and clumsly coming from games like dark souls.
I agree the spins got out of hand, but i think it was likley due to renfris actor beng far less experienced or skilled in sword fighting, coupled with poor direction. alot of geralts mistakes follow renfris, suggesting he was waiting for a mark/ move that didn't come and had to improvise. Renfir making alot of mistakes that anyone thats used a steak knife should know (you hit em with the sharp bit and aim for the head).
Though her character is young and her only combat she gloats about were basically assasinations or lucky surprise attacks. so its possibly she hasn't been in many duels, especially given the fact she has been running a bandit group who probably arn't picking honorable duels with skilled knights.
I also think its reasonable that geralt didn't punish her openings , to minimize risk. is it wirth risking even a small chance of losing your leg just to tease her about her terrible form. on other hand he could have easily knocked her over or atleast fo balanced and disarmed her dagger as well, potentially sparing her life properly.
As for the reverse grip, my explanation is flimsy, he might like to show off and humilat his opponents, especially humanoids, handicapping himself to that degree is unusual.
If there were a benefit surley they would have highlighted it. It would have been a stronger quicker block in supr close quarters, like grapples. but he never used it for that.
@@oyblech8671 well maybe they got confused. I mean with how much she is throwing her butt at him... I looked more like invitation ;)
The special effects are really good here. I suspect that several of the swords were actually just hilts, with the blades added in post.
In one or two frames you can see that Cavill is holding a hilt with only about a third of the sword length attached to it.