What EXACTLY Is An All-Road Bike?? // Blackheart Allroad AL
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- čas přidán 16. 05. 2024
- The Blackheart Allroad AL has been my bike of choice recently, but does it truly replace 2 bikes with 1? Thoughts and a semi long-term review on this modern high -end aluminum all-road bike.
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Blackheart Allroad Build / 1st Look: • PREMIUM Aluminum Gravel??
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*** Note about the rear caliper mount at 5:50: I reached out to Blackheart about this and they mentioned this is a commonly used brake mount design and they haven’t heard of anyone else having an issue with it. Nonetheless, they did offer to warranty and replace the frame at no charge and are changing the design for future production runs to alleviate any concern. I declined the offer since the bike continues to ride just fine. ***
I bought Decathlon's Triban RC 120 on sale with nearly identical geometry, bought extra 650B wheels with 40mm gravel tires and switched the 11-34 cassette to identical 11-36 cassettes, while switching the 50-34 crankset to get slightly smaller rings at 48-32 - resulting in one lower granny gear and less redundancy.
Feels the same as you describe on and off road. Added a rear rack and suspension seat post. The whole set up cost less than 1000USD.
Nice! But the geo is only a piece of the puzzle. The components will make a big difference when you hit mid-range hydraulic IMO.
@@TheBikeSauce There is the next higher model up the line, the Triban 520 GRVL that hits all the sweet spots for a bit more money (€1100). The usual suspects like CUBE or Canyon are also in this price range.
I appreciate the feedback.
Nice. Thanks for the tips. 🤙
Thanks for reviewing the bike Nolan. Always appreciate your balanced take. We haven't seen the rear brake caliper issue you mentioned before. It's something we'll definitely look at for future productions and we would of course warranty a frame that has this issue 🖤
Right on, thanks Zach! The bike is great overall. As it tends to happen, I think ppl might be blowing the caliper mount thing out of proportion.
@blackheartbikeco a compression limiter between the flanges would solve this. Probably just a couple pennies on the BOM. 🤘
@@TheBikeSauce All good. It's not an issue we've seen before but an easy design change for future productions to avoid any potential issues.
@@DilbertMuc Thanks for the comment. The dropout is designed by professional mechanical engineers, has been used in the industry for decades, is independently tested and approved to CPSC 1512 and ISO 4210 safety standards in Southern California, and we've seen zero issues in three years of use across all customers. We'll happily warranty a frame if a customer experiences this issue and we'll be using a solid mount design for future production runs based on Nolan's feedback to alleviate any concerns.
Paint color is beautiful
Thorough.. That's what I appreciate about your content. You just get to the point state your points with an intro and conclusion. By the end I get a good concept of what the bike may be like. I want a blackheart frame.
Appreciate it!
I bought Marin Gestalt as allroad bike for me. I was shocked how faster I was going on tarmac and how exciting is flying around 35kmph (~21mph) on animal trails.
I never had any road bike so I dont know how fast it could be but being fast enough on boring parts and having fun on those more interesting is awesome.
$3000 for an alloy bike with 105 is just too much. There's no way this bike warrants a $1000 premium over most other similarly specced bikes on the market.
Especially when the frame is not designed well
Frameset is $1500 with fork and seatpost, which is reasonable in todays market
@@hardmtnbikerHow so? Sorry, I see, poorly faced or positioned caliper mount, among other things.
For $1500 you can get a titanium lynskey frame. Aluminum should never be over $1200
Most aluminium frames with serious quality issues like that struggle to sell for 500 bucks without all that fancy marketing
Great review and info, as always - thank you! I got my first gravel bike last summer (a Diverge). I ride it on the paved roads near my house in order to get to the dirt roads that are a few miles away. Then I'll ride mile after mile on those generally peaceful, vehicle-free dirt roads which have enough chunky gravel, washboard surfaces, and potholes that I like having the Future Shock. To me though, all those surfaces are roads - cars drive on them. And a bike that is intended for *all roads* would seem like a natural fit for what I'm doing.
From watching your videos and others, it seems many people take their gravel bikes and/or all-road bikes, and ride them off-road, on trails. When I ride off-road trails like that, I would rather take my mountain bike with its front fork suspension and flat bars; I personally have zero desire to know how well an "all road" bike handles that off-road terrain.
Am I in the minority, or are there a lot of others that ride their gravel bikes on paved or dirt/gravel roads, and essentially never on off-road trails? If you ride it off-road, why do you prefer an all-road bike for that, rather than a mountain bike?
In my case, I'll typically ride from my house to the trails. I don't want to push a mountain bike for miles of paved roads before hitting the trails. It's kind of fun to underbike on light trails and test your skills on an allroad bike.
My "All-Road" bike is sub-20lb titanium Muru Mungo 29+ with carbon wheels and 29x2.35 Big Ones for road or 29x3.0 Chupacabras for trail.
I have the same rubbing issue on my older Fuji Cross and the fork of my new Cobalt Ti Warhawk. Not a big deal, so long as you have time to order the proper lock ring.
Nice - my new favorite all road bike is my Lynskey Ti GR300. It has 45mm tires, CF seat post, CF Richey bars and WTB CF wheels. I can "keep up" with my ex roadie crew and when I want to feel safer on these increasingly crowded FL roads, I head for gravel/packed sand. It's also my bike of choice when I ride other states as I am on a national park tour of the US for the next 18 months.
You’re not the first to mention the lynskey Ti. I’ve been intrigued by it. Surprisingly little content on it as well
A compression limiting sleeve would solve your issue with the two flanges flexing while you torque down the rear caliper. Probably just a couple bucks at a hardware store... or a couple pennies at the factory.
Prefect
I know it's cliche to say gravel bikes are overpriced drop bar hybrids, but the geometry of this one is quite literally that with the 71 degree headtube, ~40mm tire clearance, and tucked rear center, just slightly updated reach so that drop bars work. Makes for a great bike for all-road, 2-in-1 riding. Might even call it a hybridization of different styles ;)
same rear caliper issue with romet gravel bike, 1H to install correctly the rear brake.
Glad I didn't pull the trigger on a frame, that rear caliper situation is a weird design choice and the fork caliper mounting protrusion is pretty annoying as well
Thans for the comment. We have not seen the caliper mount issue before on any customer bikes and would warranty this frame no problem.
I've been giving this bike a hard look. My main concern was that the short chain stays would allow mud to accumulate between the wheel and the seat tube. Since I also live in SoCal, it was not that big a concern and I was willing to overlook it for a more responsive, snappy ride. That brake mount problem is definitely a deal breaker though. I'm suspicious of any frame made in China and that doesn't do anything to alleviate my fears. It's too bad because I like the idea of the bike. I'm thinking of talking to Paul at Rock Lobster and having him make a version of this for me. It'll cost more but the experience he brings to the table is well worth it. Great Video! You've earned my subscription.
Talk to Zach at Blackheart. These aren’t made in china. The factory is in Taiwan (a good thing(
It’s a nice looking bike but that lack of clearance with gravel tyres in a no go for the UK. One ride through a field and it would grind to a halt in a muddy mess. I was looking at a brother meteh and with 700c wheels you have the same issue. I currently ride a Canyon Grail AL 6 (2020) and it’s brilliant. Just right. I do want a Ritchey Outback eventually though. Even more clearance!
The rear flange on the blackhart is pony. How that got signed off for manufacture is beyond me. Would be worried about it snapping off under load. Horrifying 🤡
If I lived in the UK my decision would be a no brainer. I would buy a Mason Bokeh. I have a Mason Definition currently and I love that bike. It's just dealing with customs and import tariffs is such a pain. I still may pull the trigger on that bike though.@@KOL630
Thanks for the comment. We manufacture our aluminum frames in Taiwan and have not seen the caliper mount issue before on any customer bikes. In this event, we'd be happy to warranty this frame and will be reviewing the design for future production runs.
Thanks for popping in, it goes a long way with me, the consumer. This is why I never consider the big brand bike companies. They would never do this.@@blackheartbikeco
Spec. Diverge E5 “elite” is 2x 10 grx 400 aluminum frame now $1800.and if you want nicer lighter wheels, American aluminum wheels named after Emporia Kansas (can we say brands or does algorithm remove comments?) for $600-700 are as light as those other wheels
I own an E5 Elite and couldn't praise it more! It is an excellent bike with fantastatic ride quality. I don't miss carbon frames at all, just put carbon wheels on it and it shines.
Could you fabricate inserts for the rear calliper mounts? Something off the shelf like small tubes?
Great thought. I actually did try that with some nylon standoffs, but the shape of the gap made it hard to get a perfectly shaped insert
You’d have to face the inside so you could fit a perfect spacer?
No, you can't. It would have to be solid tight and then you couldn't insert them. So there must be a spacing which leads to bending of the caliper pins. Besides, all torque from breaking will go into those 4 small pins and over time the WILL bend, develop micro fissures and ultimately break off. This is a ridiculous design flaw.
It’s like my Aspero…very racey gravel, but slightly slower road. Got the Ritchey Outback too, thanks to u and other reviews. Loving both bikes.
The Ritchey is such a fun and solid bike!
I ride an Aspero too. ...I find that it is brilliant as a road bike with carbon wheels and 32mm road slicks.
@@3TZZZ exactly my set up too. Might opt for a slightly larger chain ring now that I got a Ritchey Outback 1x mullet set up
Is dropbar really suited for off road?
46-30/28 or 44-28/26 BCD 104 crank, with cassette11-36 on 12s or 11-40/42 on 11s.
The grear ratio is 0.6/0.7-4.0. Lightest gear inch is about 18-20, heaviest is over 110.
It's actually the 3 by old school MTB without middle chainring.
2 steel bushings will fix the issue on the brake mount
I dunno about where you ride but out here some of the more scenic fireroads requires at least 47mm due roughness. Mt. Lowe & Calabasas Peak Motorway come to mind.
The Allroad is definitely designed for smoother gravel. Checkout our new Gravel AL. It's designed for rougher gravel with slacker angels and 47mm tire clearance 🖤
The rear brake mount is a baffling design decision. Did no engineer sign this off? This kind of thing should be caught during a design review, which hopefully happened months before this thing went into production. Really makes you wonder what else they missed or didn't account for.
It's possible the FEA showed that the flanges would be strong enough. Often what the sims show in the design phase don't exactly mirror real life.
Thank you for your comment. To clarify, we have not seen the rear caliper issue on any customer bikes and would happily warranty this frame.
Yeah, any time I try to torque those types of seatposts, the spec feels waaay overkill. Pretty sure it'd be fine at like 8nm.
Those things are usually good at 5 Nm! 12 is just a ton.
Check out the Corratec Allroad A series
Add a spacer or some washers to the frame for the rear caliper mounts.
Simple fix
Great thought. I actually did try that with some nylon standoffs, but the shape of the gap made it hard to get a perfectly shaped insert. Not so simple
The bottom bracket and the flat brake mounting pads need to be perfectly faced at the factory. Spacing in place of poor quality manufacturing for brakes and BB is temporary fix that comes back to bite.
Fix the caliper mount ? czcams.com/video/FUXqO50HD1g/video.html
Could face, but I don’t really think that’s the issue here
@@TheBikeSauceRight, I guess I wasn't paying attention. Maybe a 3d printed piece of superhard material or a stainless steel insert could prevent those flanges to bend !?
@@morgansoulardall it needs is a small steel cylinder and a couple o-rings. Leather, rubber, plastic...not sure what would work best. Keep it simple.
I'm getting old. Over and over I find myself riding my Ritchey Outback whilst my Road Logic collects dust in the shed. You sure can't beat that sweet 45mm tyre width ride. I've been on lots of bunch road rides on the Outback, gotten a lot of weird looks and even an aggressive "when are you going to get a real bike?" comment but only once have I been dropped and that was on a brutal insane climb that I would've been dropped on ANY bike. Roadies are a super fashion-driven bunch of nutters. If Tadej Pogacar starts wearing a phallic shaped marital aid glued to his helmet, guess what'll be turning up tomorrow at your local bunch ride? 🙂
😆😆😆 love it. Someone should be offended, but I’m not sure who 😆
Getting old is a sure sign of the wisdom that a top of the range pro level road race bike will make your Tour de France fantasies come true! 🤣
The rear brake mount tho, definitely suspect of a defect
We have not seen the caliper mount issue before on any customer bikes and would warranty this frame no problem.
Anything over 32c's is now gravel territory.
All road bikes are for "all ROADS", not trails. That means gravel ROADS (not trails), multiuse paths, (of course) streets use and anything shy of something that a mountain bike can be on. The reason for an all road bike vs a gravel bike is that you ride it like a road bike (not a trail bike). They're for fast riding, not technical riding, on less than ideal surfaces. I think that they're the most fun bikes out there because you can blast down a road and not worry about potholes or irregular surfaces. It's the best of road cycling, but on steroids & no compromises on what weather you can ride them in or what the conditions are.
Couldn't have said it better. Road bike experience on back-, dirt-, and forgotten roads. 🖤
I've been toying with the idea of pinging you for an update on one of your previous videos on the Blackheart. It is a fairly compelling bike for someone who mostly rides pavement and when there is gravel available, there is still a lot of pavement to ride. It sits right between my ten year old aluminum endurance road frame and my steel gravel bike and your review has left me about where I was prior, so I guess I will stick with what I have. It is a relatively premium product, and one thing that is frustrating in the bike world is that if you want a metal bike, it is easy the entry level lines or things that shit to boutique pretty quickly.
Reach out anytime. Email is easiest
Personally I don’t own a road bike but I have several wheel sets and tires and have never felt that I needed a road bicycle. For reference I rode 10 solo Centuries last year on 700x 38 Rene Herse ,700x 40 American Classic tires and 700x42 Panaracer. That attention to detail and compatibility of that frame would have me looking elsewhere.
You don't need a road bike to do centuries. Anything comfortable will work just fine.
That rear caliper mount design would be a deal breaker for me. The lockring issue not so much, but it's still a dissappointing oversight.
Thank for the comment. This isn't a problem that's been reported by our customers before, and we'd happily warranty this frame. It's something we'll look at for future productions so it's a non issue.
try to invert the stem in rode mode
too low for me
All I could hear during that scene was my bike mechanic saying “flip the stem.”
😆😆😆 find a new mechanic
@@TheBikeSauce lol. Next video: Top 10 annoying things Roadies do for fashion.
Ooooo...epic fail on the rear brake mount. Imagine a few thousand cycles of brake applications bending those mount 'tabs', flexing that assembly over and over. In aluminum.
Thank you for your comment. We have not seen the rear caliper issue on any customer bikes and would happily warranty this frame.
In my opinion, the problems you identified aren't minor gripes! It tells me, Blackheart do not really know what they are doing. I wish them luck, but they should hire some people with more experience to help them with the details that make of break the whole experience of riding a bicycle. It is a machine sport and a poorly designed frame detracts from ones experience.
Thank you for your comment. To clarify, we have not seen the rear caliper issue on any customer bikes and would happily warranty this frame.
#beegynut has r tested the chat 😂
I do actually kind of agree with Blackheart's approach to two bike offerings (based on geometry) for the gravel spectrum as the road/offroad middleground threshold for gravel riding really depends on the individual. It is impossible for just one "all-road" bike to rule them all.
I do wish they keep tire clearances oversized and the same for both models. The brake mounts are also horrendously designed 😂
Thanks for the comment. Going larger on the Allroad AL tire clearance would mean longer chainstays and smaller chainring clearance, compromising the road performance. The Gravel AL can clear 700x47 and has gravel-specific geo to suit. In this event, we'd be happy to warranty this frame and will be reviewing the design for future production runs. We have not seen the caliper mount issue before on any customer bikes and would warranty this frame no problem.
@blackheartbikeco
You made the right choice with the chainstay length, it's all-road, not all-gravel. I like the combo of sport touring and hybrid geometry, only thing missing in my opinion are some fender mounts, and possibly mid fork rack mounts.
The bike is damn near perfect as a choice for randonneurs/audax/endurance riders; seems like 700x32mm tires and fenders, or 650bx42 and fenders would fit while the frame still have fast and comfortable characteristics. Adding fender and possibly rack mounts would make it a winner. But, I've no idea what it's like trying to market to such a retro-grouchy segment of the market.
@@Primifluous Thanks for the feedback. There are rear fender/rack mounts on the frame, and fender mounts on the fork (they are just hidden on the tips for this version). All new Allroad Ti and AL forks have an M5 fender/rack mount in the standard position near the dropout. And you can select an ENVE Adventure fork if you want additional mounts on the fork. We try and accommodate as many people as possible, but if you try and please everyone you'll make a bike for no one.
@@blackheartbikeco indeed! I did look on the website at the frame, but didn't find that information. Nice to hear it includes them.
so you are roadie now?
I am not
Those brake mounts are sketchy!
Slack head tube angles, long chainstays and flabby tires are ruining the moral fiber of our country. Ok, maybe a bit dramatic, but you can learn, even though it's a little scary, how to ride an aggressive bike through challenging terrain. You can't teach a rolling couch to be agile.
😆😆😆
Lol 🖤
cmon man, all road, atb, gravel bike, endurance bike, its called a gravel bike. its a gravel bike with slick tires. why make up new gendres for the same f bike
Cmon man you 😆. Don’t try and bring gender into the conversation. There are nuances between bikes and some have labeled them. Pretty simple
@@TheBikeSauce maybe they should.ne called a bike you know like.like they where for 100years.
Wut. 😆
@@TheBikeSauce just making something outa nothing, it's a gravel.bike period
lol and what did they called them before gravel bikes? 🤷♂️
Which idiot designed this rear brake construction so that with every brake usage those aluminum "pins" get squashed down and down and further down. I see a big design fail and customer recall here with this idiotic (but certainly cheap!) rear setup. It might not be noticable at first, but it will increase and over time it will create micro fissures and then either suddenly completely bend down or simply break off and the rear brake is gone and will wind up in the spokes. Imagine that with 30 miles/h on a downhill ride. I see lawsuits coming!
Thanks for the comment. The dropout is designed by professional mechanical engineers, has been used in the industry for decades, is independently tested and approved to CPSC 1512 and ISO 4210 safety standards in Southern California, and we've seen zero issues in three years of use across all customers. We'll happily warranty a frame if a customer experiences this issue and we'll be using a solid mount design for future production runs based on Nolan's feedback to alleviate any concerns.
Mostly mediocre at everything
😀 username checks out