Why European Trucks Have Up To 770 HP And US Don’t
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- čas přidán 29. 04. 2024
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Why European Trucks have up to 770 HP and US Don’t
Have you ever wondered why the semi trucks in Europe are available with these massive engines such as the Volvo D16k with 750Hp and 3.550 Nm and the Scania V8 770 hp with 3.700 Nm.
Where in the US, engines only have a maximum of around 605 hp and 2780 NM, even though they look so much bigger?
There are several reasons why truck engines in Europe are somewhat larger and more powerful than in the US, so let's take a look at them
▬▬▬ The video ▬▬▬
00:00 Start
00:41 HP Vs. NM / Lb-ft
01:16 Trucks in
EU vs US
01:36 The engines in US
03:42 The engines in EU
05:17 Weight rules
EU vs US
07:03 Landscape and
infrastructure
EU vs US
08:18 Reputation And
Appearance
▬▬▬ Videos mentioned ▬▬▬
Why American and European Trucks Are So Different: • Why American and Europ...
Why Scania Made The V8 - And Kept It
• Why Scania Made The V8...
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I know this video is about big trucks, but DAF use Cummins at least on their smaller models like LF and CF (ISB4.5 150 - ISB6.7 320) even though they brand them as Paccar engines. Cummins do let vehicle manufacturers do that, other examples being "Iveco" Cummins engines (whatever they renamed the ISB4.5 to) and "Scania 7-litre" engines (which are really Cummins ISB6.7s).
It is kind of ironic that American big trucks don't have as big engines available compared to European ones, yet Dodge pickups are available with Cummins ISB6.7s which in the UK are the sort of engines used in some rigid trucks and single-decker and even double-decker buses!
You should do a video on the bandar abbas Express. The longest truck route in the world.
it would have been nice if the NM was translated to a real metric. that would be foot pounds or torque.
Wrong wrong wrong. Tongue does nothing until rotated over time. Horsepower does all work. Watch an engineering video, like Jason at Engineering Explained. Torque is better visualized as the force available per stroke, and tuning for RPM has everything to do with the total power curve of an engine.
@@thelasthallow technically it's lb-ft for that, although the 2 terms are almost synonymous and often confused. I remember the force created by an engine because you can "pound feet" (move fast) with them.
Important to note that those EU tons are metric tons. 44 metric tons is about 97,000 pounds, or 48.5 US tons. The whole video would have been a lot clearer if it stuck to consistent units. Coincidentally, a UK Imperial ton is much closer to a metric ton than a US ton.
Wish we'd just use the SI units everywhere.
@@kristianniss5201 you mean the METRIC system? which is more sensible, convenient to calculate with etc? I mean even in the USA alot of scientists use the metric system exactly for this reason.
@@AwoudeX yes SI includes the metric system.
@@AwoudeX As do the military because the metric system is far easier to use.
"The cummins is a 507 fluid ounce engine"
As a german, I have to point out: There might be more powerfull engines available, but not many trucks have them. If you drive onto the A7 (Autobahn) at the "Kasseler Berge" (Kassel mountains) near Kassel, you often find trucks going no more than 30 kmh / ~18mph even though they are allowed to go 80 kmh / ~49mph by law. They crawl up the steep roads because they cant go any faster. Normal trucks, used for day-to-day transport outside the apline area are mostly equipped with engines with less than 500 hp because the bigger engines will consume more fuel without shortening the travel time to any significant degree.
Well… The once going 30 km/h usually have Eastern European license plates and are worn out over many years….
@@yogabearmobil Actually, I am mostly talking about ones with german licence plates. I can only (partially) speak for them since I actually talked with german truckers. I have never talked with foreign truckers...
@@yogabearmobil or not the ones going 30 are juste max loaded or overloaded and the driver doesn't really react wen he should go manually, with the old MAN tgx 18480 (500hp) I can climb that thing with max 60kmh, with DAF xf 530 (530hp) I go max 45kmh, full loaded (40t)
So depends on the engine, driver, weight and if you have or not already that one going 30 in front of you...not eastern eu old dying trucks, those are already passed out in Fulda or Göttingen 😅
@@yogabearmobil Many East European trucks are owned by West European companies with an office in Easten Europe. Their drivers earn 1/4 the wage of a West European driver, that´s why most of the international transport in Europe is done by East European companies. They have modern trucks but basic models to keep it as cheap as possible.
We once went about 10kmh there when my father tried towing a caravan uphill with a 65hp Golf 😂
I love it when people don't know the difference between the EU and Europe.
What difference? You all don't have any rights anyway. Why distinguish between countries with no rights and countries also with no rights
Volvo and scania are both produced in the EU to EU standards, soooo does it matter?
@@mementomori7825 One is an association of states, and the other is a continent. If that doesn’t matter, then what does.
Same difference as USA vs America.
Love Europe. Hate the EU.
Also another note, these high power engines aren't used in day-to-day transportation. The regular 40 ton trucks that transport goods usually have weaker engines at around 450~550 HP. The powerfull 750HP engines are only really used in heavy haulers that carry super heavy loads like construction parts that need special permits and sometimes even closed off roads
dump trucks use 620+ ))
Finland and Sweden have a ton of very high powered trucks. Logging trucks haul some of the heaviest loads around.
I drive a 2022 770s daily with a 54t ticket. I don't do heavy haulage. This is the norm in my country... weight not the truck so much
In south korea, the maximum weight for truck in law is 40 ton and many volvo man benz trucks are making 400~500hp here. Many illegally loads more than 100tons
Being a Norwegian I think maybe the Swedish trucks are better equipped to the arctic weather and terrain up in Scandinavia and we usually buy more expensive trucks as well. I'm sure the cheap and less expensive trucks around the mediterrainean is well equipped for that terrain. We have troubles in Norway every years truck drivers from southern Europe underestimating the harsh arctic terrain and passing the border without chains in winter weather.
You forgot to mention that Norwegian employees are increadibly expensive, hence companies opt for cheaper foreign drivers, often from Arab nations, who aren't used to the climate.
@@simonkolar5478 Point being?
@@TullaRask The point being there's no limit to corporate greed these days. There are many qualified drivers from Russia, Belarus, the Baltic states, Poland, etc. but corporations alway hire the cheapest people.
And all of this ties is neatly with the topic of this video. Modern trucks are designed to lower the driver skill cap so companies can hire disposable human resources.
And the whole driver shortage is complete BS. People eventually get fed up withall the slavedriving and being pressured by sociopathic management. There are many people with licenses who left the trucking industry in search of more normal careers.
@@TullaRask Guess you never heard of Canada? Or Alaska?…
@@mikeznel6048 The uneducated one's are in the us and canada, europeans are far more educated I'm happy to say.
As others have pointed out, Scandinavia is the only part of Europe where those massive weights are common and not limited ton special oversized transports. A larger engine is usually more efficient and durable with extra heavy loads. The vast majority of European long distance trucks are specced in the 400-500hp range. Thats not to say American manfuacturers didn't have giant engines for special applications in the past. Stuff like the Detroit 12V-71, Mack E9 and Cummins KT
Michigan has no weight limit and South Dakota is 150,000lbs. Really glossed over that one didn’t you
Outside Scandinavia there are more countries that run 60 tons, or experiment with higher weights
@@bigdaddystep. It makes sense to not include MI and SD. They're in a minority of states, both have specific axle loading restrictions allowing for the higher weight restrictions, and SD only allows 150,000 lb. combinations on designated roads. IA has something similar, but it's more restrictive. Explaining the details is a whole video in itself. Gotta get that ad revenue 🤷♂️
@@bigdaddystep. Michigans limit is 164000 lb. But they dont allow as much per axle. You need 11 axles to haul that weight if I remember correctly.
@Alexander Ratisbona 500 hp is the max all above are mostly private drivers. More hp engine means expensive truck.
I used to work at a Volvo reman plant. Before shipping to the client we hooked up the engines to a dyno. Watching the mighty 16 litre going full speed under heavy load always gave me goosebumps
Please tell us more...
We remanufactured mostly truck engines and transmissions for construction machinery. There was also a small section for automobile engines as well.
Those engines are under immense load under operation so we had to make sure they were up for the task. We ran each engine for about 20 min under full power while checking emissions and coolant temp etc. I believe their most powerful engine clocked in at around 3500 Nm.
What was the flywheel HP ratings please.
The comments here are worth reading for the variety of responses and opinions. The consensus seems to be that for most of the EU and most of NA the majority of trucks hauling the most common freight are in the 400-500 HP range, with bigger power in some places for bigger loads. Most of us folks here in NA have curious interest in trucking in the EU as it is quite different from our experience, and it seems the same from the folks in the EU. As a 40 year driver and retired small fleet owner I think most NA drivers would struggle to adapt to the EU ways ( lower speeds, less geographic area ) and I'm guessing a lot of EU drivers would like a spin in my 2000 Peterbilt 379 with the Cat 600 (hobby trucking now), easing across Montana, Alberta, Colorado, or Texas on a nice spring day or a cool fall evening. For us over here, it doesn't get much better than that, in this old skinner's opinion. To all on the road, no matter which continent you are traversing, drive safe and make it home in one piece.
Do you mean Eu trucks or trucks from Europe? Both kinda different
@@Fgafgafgafdifferent how?
@@Fgafgafgaf
You know being a pedantic ass doesn't make you seem smart or cool.
It makes you seem annoying and stupid.
The EU encompasses most of Europe. Most of Europe is under similar regulations and culture due to the contact and interwoven economies.
He missed one, if not the major reason for European higher power, speed limits and limiters. When the 90kph (56mph) limiter was introduced this was the spark to much higher hp. In the US you can drive at 70 mph +/- depending on state on the flat, so if you loose speed on the hills the driver can soon make it back, in Europe the lower speed limits and limiters means you must try to maintain speed up hills, because you cannot recover the lost time on the flat.
He missed another one: US manufacturers got the OPTION to build more environmentally friendly truck engines, whereas for EU manufacturers it was MANDATED. This caused EU manufacturers to look for solutions to combat the inevitable power loss those new rules brought with them. As EU manufacturers developed better fuel injection systems, engine heads and ECU's, they discovered that it was fairly simple to increase the power without reducing the durability of their engines.
Then there's the fact that whereas Mercedes have put a cap on their engines, reasoning that 630 HP is more than enough to haul any load, Volvo and Scania are in a continuing pissing game to see who can build the most powerful engine.
Horse power coupled with good gear ratio bud...I've got a 600hp Cummins hooked to 4:40 gears and an Eaton-Fuller 8LL in a Pete 367 tri-ax...I average 74,500 a load and where I live is anything but flat. Try driving up Rt 201 to Jackman, Maine. Because of my engine and gearing I literally never drop below 6th gear the entire way up to Jackman (roughly 100 miles) and there are some really long and steep hills)
@@aaronsanborn4291 Mercedes has a trick for that with the gearbox in their top Actros trucks. It's a fully automated 16 speed with a load sensor on the fifth wheel, but the main difference from other gearboxes is that it has a distinct 8 short low gears, 8 long high gears setup, almost like an agricultural tractor. This gives the truck enormous torque at the wheels in low gears for exceptionally heavy loads and/or going up steep inclines, whereas the high gears are more for normal highway use.
Precisely; this is also the reason for which in Italy (where there are lots of hills) it's not uncommon to find 700 / 750hp trucks, climbing fairly steep inclines while managing to maintain the speed limit (80 km/h).
Most definitely, no big space like the US.
American truck driver here.
I own my truck and trailer. 2015 freightliner Detroit 15 liter set at 525hp/2050lbft (2780nm) and a 13 speed manual transmission. While many Yank owners will also customize their trucks to stand out, I like mine being a simple, clean, shiny black; and my trailer matches. For my European counterparts, I'd you get the chance to visit my country, come to an American truck show, go to the world's largest truck stop in Iowa, maybe rent a caravan and drive across our massive country. It's beautiful
Im dutch and i would love tho do that
I'm in Australia & we do get a lot of Americans & europeans coming here to drive. We've got the biggest & heaviest on & off highway trucks in the world.
European trucks are ugly
Tnx! Maybe you should come over to Europe then ;)
One thing I don´t understand is why american trucks are manual when most cars are automatic in the us. americans usually don´t know how to drive a stick.
Some clarification... the max road legal weight limit in Sweden is 74 ton without dispensation with a max length of 25.25m and in Finland the max weight is 76 ton without dispensation with a max length of 34m (truck plush 2 full semi trailers). the 90 ton are only for iron ore and logging truck, are only allowed in Lapland and on certain roads. in Finland you have certain routes where you can drive Iron ore up to 104 ton and logging trucks up to 90 ton.
Max length in Sweden is 34,5m
@@JoFe-bv2oy for specific roads yes. but you are not permitted to drive 34.5m on all public roads in Sweden
@@ThePorritZBK4
@@JoFe-bv2oyyeah and if you do an image search "BK4 vägnät" you'll see the actual roads that supports that class
In the UK weight limits are largely based on the number of axles. They are from 3.5 - 7.5 tonnes and from there up to 18 tonnes with two axles. Rigid trucks with three axles can run up to 26 tonnes and with four can gross up to 32 tonnes. Artics (tractor trailers) can gross out at 44 tonnes with six axles. Then there are the STGO, or Special Types, General Orders trucks that, for instance, can carry loads of 100 tonnes or more. These might carry locomotives or similar.
In Britain, historically, truck makers had much in common with their US cousins in as much as they used proprietary components by manufactures like Rolls Royce, Perkins, Gardner or Cummins. Kirkstall, Eaton and Turner used to make gearboxes and axles. On the continent most manufacturers were vertically integrated but of late, ZF have taken over much of the transmission market. Before we joined the EEC, or EU as it became there was relatively little trade between Britain and Europe but it was quite common for trucks to drive over the Alps from Germany to Italy or Italy to Spain so powerful engines and sleeper cabs were common as trips could last several days. In the UK owners preferred low revving engines that would last a million miles between rebuilds. The likes of Volvo and Scania introduced leasing to the market so vehicles would go back after 3 or 4 years and after 10 years would end up in Africa.
In contrast, British trucks would quite often work for 20 years and then the engines, especially Gardners, would enjoy a second life as generators for traveling fairgrounds or powering Junks around the coats of China and Malaysia.
UK should allow b-doubles.
@@Robert-cu9bm not until a mandatory motorway test for car drivers is introduced, the standard on UK roads is atrocious now.
UK GVMs and class limits are artificially low in the lighter trucks due to your insanely restrictive driver's license weight limits. There really is no reason that a person with a passenger license should be limited to 3.5t. My last daily driver (5 short tons) was rated at more than that and its replacement (7 short tone) will be too.
The big HP engines are developed mainly for Sweden and Finland trucks. The Trucks here are much longer and heavier than the rest of Europe and US. But still, you really never need moore than 500 HP, but it can be better for fuel efficiency with a bigger engine sometimes.
US doubles are very similar to trains in Scandinavia. The difference is that the US interstate is limited when it comes to maximum grade.
Canadian trucks commonly weigh around 139,000 lbs.
The 700+ is really just for road trains and special loads. The Volvo once was specially built for 150 ton loads. For the normal 72 (sweden) and 84 (finland) loads the normal 600hp engines are generally recommend.
With that. There is speciall 105 ton timber trucks in the nort and 90 ton ore trucks also that are licensed to operate as normal trucks.
Norway is by far the most demanding part of scandinavia. You do not need lots of power on flat roads.
@@JeepCherokeeful that's definitely false lol
Meanwhile in Canada, we're using American trucks for much hillier terrain. The only flat-ish sections are from mid-Alberta, through Saskatchewan, to maybe halfway through Manitoba. Whereas everywhere else has numerous hills and mountains. Not to mention a lot of trucking companies in Canada pull super-B's (b-trains/b-doubles) over all this terrain. I wish we had more powerful engines. Would make running through the mountains so much easier.
Then you're running the wrong gears old son. We pull 250,000 pounds gross vehicle weight in the north Maine woods all the time with no problem
@@aaronsanborn4291 On how many axles?
Scania will join Canadian market next year with xt config hope they will expand more to not only just for mining but also other general goods too
I feel that. I live in Fargo. Run north states and Canada. Even my 1993 kw w9 with a 3406e struggles at times. And I’m running a twin turbo setup. Miss the era of 3408s. And the slight on America for custom trucks is salty af
@@aaronsanborn4291 An engine with more power and torque will be able to pull longer gears, making it faster (and easier) going uphill. Once you are in the correct gear for the grade and load, while asking 100% from the engine, the only way to go faster is if you have a more power and torque.
The amount of torque an engine produces is not that important to its performance as long as the torque holds steady across the RPM band. The transmission can always trade engine RPM and wheel speed speed for wheel torque. If you have more power, the right gear will mean you have more wheel torque for the same speed.
OMG... I do not believe it.. Someone that ACTUALLY knows what they are talking about..
The most interesting truck today is missing in this video.
Sisu Polar hybrid.
It has 1140 hp and 5000 nm with electric motor. That electronic system assist diesel engine to accelerations and took energy back in breaking, so that supercondensator can produce that power again.
This saves so much fuel in hilly areas...
One thing is digital tachograph used in EU. You're allowed to have 9 hours driving time and digital tachograph tells every minute you have been driving. In certain trips 750 HP engine is over 30 min faster per trip than 500 HP and that might make it possible to change driver drive two trips in day.
The US uses log books (usually electronic these days) to record driver time. The limit is 11 hours behind the wheel, and the max shift time (from going on duty to going off duty) is 14 hours, but only if the driver has had at least 10 hours off duty immediately prior to the shift. So there is still a consideration for wanting to get somewhere as quickly as possible.
But EU speed limits for trucks are much slower. In some states, trucks are allowed to drive at the same speed as the cars. Think 120 km/hr.
Most lorries in the eu are restricted to 56mph
electronic logging is mandatory in the US too. And US speed limits are much higher, most states let trucks go the same speed as cars, which is 75mph in a bunch of states, and Wyoming, Utah and Nevada have 80mph speed limits with no lower limit for trucks (Idaho and Montana have 80mph for cars but 70mph for trucks). Though most major fleet operators limit their trucks to 65 or 68mph, but there is no government mandated limiter like there is with the 90km/h in the EU.
@@anthonykaiser974 in France truck are limited to 90km/h max...
I had the fortunate tast of driving a Volvo FH750 and holy moly it can pull anything. It was a totally different beast to what I was used to.
what were you driving before this divine encounter with Volvo?
A prius
I'm sure it can not. Trucking is more than engine power. Why do you see nearly no european trucks in Australia ? Because they can nothing when it comes to Outback Lorrying. 😉 There you will find Kenworths, Macks, Freightliners and so on.
@@altblechasyl_cs2093 Ohh that's why the volvo truck pulled 750 tonnes? "Volvo Trucks - Volvo Trucks vs 750 Tonnes: An extreme heavy haulage challenge"
@@Spurz1975 🤷♂️ Thats not a question of power, thats a question of traction.
I've seen a few road trains here in Australia pulling 4 trailers on private roads and big triples on public road. They seemed to be switching to the 700HP Scanias and Volvo. A few tippers also running 700HP but that's owner operators wanting the big engines for show lol.
I think it would have be good to have the same units for torque.
So:
- 1550 Lb.Ft = 2100 N.m and 1750 Lb.Ft = 2370 N.m (2'01")
- 3700N.m = 2730 Lb.Ft (0'16")
Great video. In Australia we get both American and Euro trucks. The best of both worlds!!
True 👍
In USA we use also Volvo trucks.
@@anatomicalmachine8017 But the American Volvo trucks have very little in common with the EU ones. They don't even share engine and gearbox
@@joakimjonsson1640 Volvo bought White trucks to get into the US market, how much they have changed through the years is another question.
You run road trains with 2 engines, often over 1000hp from memory.
Up until 2018ish, 700+ HP tractors were quite common among the companies hauling sand, aggregate, blacktop, etc in my area, mostly because emissions compliance was not enforced, and tuned and deleted exhaust aftertreatment was overlooked, but not anymore.
I worked in the North Dakota oil fields some years ago and I was surprised at how many truckers were running returned trucks pushing way above stock power and still getting way better fuel mileage at the same time just by deleting emissions compliance components and tuning parameters.
in us?
@@guamazolopez6456 in Michigan, yes.
The stricter the environmental laws, the more effort the government is putting forth
@@jks3849 In the case I described, the laws were passed around 2008ish, but weren't really enforced for about 10 years.
The majority of European trucks these days have a 13L engine and are in the power class of 500hp and below. There are a small number of more powerful ones for special purposes or for show, but over 700hp and above is really very rare. The weights are higher in the Nordic countries than in other European countries, especially in Finland 68 - 76t (132200 - 167500 lbs) HCT combinations. The lengths of the combinations are more than 34m (113ft), two semi-trailers, 11 - 12 axles, but even then the power is generally only 460 - 540hp, rarely even 600hp.
In norway 600+ is normal
Its the same with coaches in Europe
We have one with 520 horsepower. Its limited at 62 mph. It pulls like crazy uphill, uts fun to drive and feel the power and hear that big turbo spool up
We have a MAN 24-420 coach converted into a motorhome here in Australia. It's a 12L turbo 6 and flies. Our older motorhome was a Mercedes O303 with a 14.6L V8 non-turbo. So much difference between the two.
I can safely say that most EU trucks are 500 HP too. I've worked in hauling company and entire fleet were ~500 HP trucks. A guy I know who worked in Girteka(largest EU haulier with over 9000 trucks!) are also operating mostly 500 HP trucks. There're some special trucks for special loads that need those 700+ HP but they are not that common in wider EU.
I can confirm, my truck is a 480hp/40tonne truck.
I don't know where you have worked but it is very common to see trucks with more than 500hp... Many use the 770, 730 or 750 for common loads... Also say that the European truck usually has more torque with a similar power consuming less fuel .
Ah Girteka. Usually find those trucks in a ditch.
Mi truck has 750 hp and 2200 torque pulling doubles in western mountains
@@beto46133 only 2200 having 750hp? your engine is very bad. a fully standard scania with 580hp generates 2212... with a much lower consumption
as an ex driver, the reasons are exactly as i expected from my experience and watching vids from Europe. when i drove truck they were sometimes underpowered for the job i was doing but you make do with what you have
There's a bridge collapsed here in Indonesia 2 decades ago in Indonesia. Upon an investigation, the police found out that one of the trucks had a total weight of 200 tons! Yes, Japanese trucks in Indonesia can even pull 200 tons easily while the regulation for the axle load is bassically limited to 14.2 tons per axle.
How do you even get the idiotic idea to load 200t in a single truck?!
@@xXYannuschXx So many corrupt officers like stop the truck and ask for money. For the truckers it's a good idea to load the truck as much as possible in one trip to make the trip feasible. These overloaded trucks roaming around and destroy the road. Not even concrete pavement withstand their load. In one or two years, the national or provincial road needs rehabilitation, eventhough concrete pavement was designed to last for 20 years.
@@xXYannuschXx there are plenty of videos from China showing these 180-200 ton loads on a single,super long trailer, while the trucks pulling are rated for much much less weight
You would need so many axles and tyres for that it would look totally stupid 🤣
Take a look at Pakistan truck repair you will notice
I disagree with saying power doesnt matter. The fact you have great low end torque just means you have high power at an efficient speed. power is power. torque is levers and gears.
Both Volvo and Scania are from Sweden, the only country allowing a maximum weight of 90 tons. Sweden doesn't really have mountains, but they have a big lumber and wood industry in forests on hills. And what type of cargo weighs 90 tons: lumber.
Here in The Netherlands, the weight limit is 50 tons, whereas most other mainland European countries allow 40 or 45 tons. The Scania V8 is loved here in NL, because of its sheer power but mostly because of the unique sound it produces.
Thanks for sharing :)
90 ton trucks are only used at certain roads and that is mainly the ore trucks and the 32,5 meter long lumber trucks that goes between lumber mills. Granted Schenker also have a few 32,5 meter 90 ton trucks going in the southern parts of Sweden.
But other then that 24 meters 60 tons is still what most trucks load
I'm a semi driver from the US since 1996. I say the best trucks are Volvo Scania. I always say "a Volvo with a million miles is better than a Freightliner with 1 mile on it". From my experience.
There's a long nose Scania, think it's the H series driving around near where I Live in Scotland and it's just so amazing. When I lived in Sweden and work in the building trade, the company I worked for had the H- series for their tipper lorries. Just so great and beautiful trucks. Also, here in the UK, the Coca Cola truck we are during Christmas is a Scania but all identification has been removed from the truck itself.
Thank you for reminding me i need to go IKEA and buy some furniture!
My 2006 Western Star with a Series 60 Detroit came with 435hp. We plugged in the laptop and it was simply selecting the 550hp option from one of the menus.
Great motor there driver, I put it right with the old red top Cummins for durability. You just can't break the damn things. Keep it shiny side up.
The Mack-Scania relationship was established in 1950, when Mack Trucks collaborated with Scania (then known as Scania-Vabis) to produce and sell the Mack C-50 municipal transit bus in Europe.
Mack and Scania then worked together on V8 development. It’s no coincidence the Mack and Scania V-8 engines share displacements.
After five years of development, the Mack END(T)864 (1962-1972) entered limited production at Hagerstown in 1962 (Production might have started sooner, but the transfer of engine production from the old Plainfield, New Jersey plant to the modern new Hagerstown, Maryland facility in 1961 did not go smoothly).
Using Mack-supplied END(T)864 V-8 engine blocks, Scania began development of its own version in 1962 with running prototypes in 1964. However, the production version of the Scania DS14 V-8 was based on the improved Mack ENDT865/866.
Mack introduced the 14.2 liter ENDT865 in 1969, the same year Scania introduced the 14.2 liter DS14.
Scania utilized individual cylinder heads on their version (favored in Europe at the time), while Mack used a two-cylinder head design (four heads total).
To better achieve economy of scale for Mack and reduce investment costs for Scania, it made perfect sense for Mack to produce V-8 engine blocks for both companies. The only negative was for Scania having to convert English measurements to metric.
Scania produced the DS14 up to year 2000. With the introduction of Euro-3 emissions, Scania introduced the 15.6 liter DC16 V-8.
The 16.4-liter Mack E-9 is based on a revision of the 14.2-liter ENDT865/866 engine block.
The current Scania Euro-6 DC16 V-8, in 520, 580 and 730 horsepower ratings, has a 16.4 liter displacement, identical to the Mack E9.
(Mack Trucks jumped from 14.2 liters to 16.4. Scania moved incrementally with the block from 14.2 to 15.6 to 16.4)
Scania’s current 16.4 liter version of the Mack/Scania block, rated up to 730 horsepower at Euro-6 (the rough equivalent of EPA2010), utilizes a compacted graphite iron (CGI)* engine block. In meeting Euro-6 (the Euro equivalent to EPA2010), CGI allowed Scania to raise cylinder combustion pressures from 165 bar on the earlier 15.6-liter V8 to 200 bar on the new 16.4-liter engine.
Also, Scania XPI** (extra-high pressure injection) now takes injection pressures up to 2,400bar, and they have developed multiple variations for its injection profiles based on an HCCI (homogenous charge compression ignition).
Volvo Group terminated Mack E9 V-8 engine production at Hagerstown in 2003.
Mack Trucks had planned to re-launch the E9 V-8 in 2003 with Bosch electronic unit pump (EUP) injection. Revisions allowed it to meet the latest EPA standards while delivering superb power and fuel economy. However, Mack engineering was snubbed by Volvo Group. Volvo cancelled the pedigreed Mack E9 in favor of the upcoming Volvo D16 (rebadged as MP10).
Had Volvo Group continued production of the Mack E9 V-8 engine, refined with oncoming new technologies including an extra-high pressure common rail fuel injection system and compacted graphite iron (CGI) engine block, the Mack brand would still have a legendary halo product.
Source: bigmacktrucks.com
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Torque and power (horsepower) are of course intertwined, not completely separate metrics that can be "adjusted" individually.
For example, you calculate power from torque with this formula: Nm * rpm / 9550 = kW (multiply by 1.36 to get HP).
If your peak torque is 2800Nm at 1700rpm, the engine puts out 678HP.
The last reason may not be accurate,Americans also like to customize their trucks and hold truck exhibitions.
Much more common in the us than in europe 90%of the trucks here are more or less standard and not like the ones you saw in the video
Yes, I thought that reason was a bit reversed.
True that, self owned trucks ain't that common in Europe like in the US, hence the customization isn't that common ^^
The customization in Europe is less extensive as suggested in the video, owner-operator is something very scarce in Europe compared to the U.S.
that was my thought as well...go through any Love's, Pilot, or Flying J - there are some truly amazing rigs out there - with waaaaay over the ~500hp. [more than one CAT out here with the 800hp 'marine' cam] I still love my old Detroit 318 (8V-71)
Depends on what you mean with customization?
@@AlexKall customization is exterior modifications
You havent seen a Swedish owned truck.
One word to explain why: Terrain
Europe has denser elevation changes and more extreme elevations because of it. Hence, you require more torque and power if you want to get anywhere, especially if you want to cross the Alps or Pyrenees.
Living in a hiller city that has semi trucks driving through, I can say that a extra couple of hundred horsepower would help out a lot when those trucks get stopped by traffic lights and take a full green light just to make it through the intersection.
In Baltics 500hp straight6 is the most popular engine options. Mostly we have Scanias and Volvos because they are built to our climate.
With reference to your EU weights, its most common to Run at 40tons in the majority of Europe and 44 in the UK, the higher Gross weights are less common and usually come under special restrictions for abnormal loads or like in Scandi countries with timber haulage
It's not only timber haulage in nordics that is heavier.
The same thing applies to the US as well , while 90% of the states have federal 36.5 ton weight limit , at least 5 states allow trucks to pull full size doubles and even triples with single axle which allows semis to have 50 to 60 ton total gross combination weight limit on most public roads within the state, most of them are used in logging (timber) and mining industry. Oregon , Washington , Nevada and Utah just to name a few , these states also have pretty steep hills , 5 to 8 % grades on major highways and freeways in these mountain Western states are pretty common so having 600hp + engine would help a lot to pull those 50-60 ton double and triple combos uphill
@@Nikowalker007 we run 100,000 pounds GVW with a standard tractor unit and a tri-axel trailer in Maine. I can run 75,900 with my Pete 367 tri-ax dump and 60,000 with a wheeler. It's also not uncommon for us to pull 250,000 hauling in the North Maine Woods without hauling doubles...btw the Cat C15 6NZ without modification can put 625hp out you trick it put some and you can easily get 700 or more horse.
@@aaronsanborn4291 In EU we have some modded SCANIAs with 1000-1500HP. With dual or much bigger turbos, much higher turbo pressure and boost, modded ECUs etc. Check Sarantos Scania R999 on YT.
It's 50 tons in The Netherlands😉
I work for transport company and we are operating across EU. We use MAN trucks with 346 and 368 kW engines. That is 460/490 hp. I think that most powerfull engines are use mostly in Scandinavia, because ofdriving conditions there.
I have a 2008 Pete 379.
It has a Cummins ISX-15 that is set at 599 BHP.
Because it has 2 DPF filters, the turbo is boosting at 30 PSI, which is producing 750 BHP at the flywheel.
But, it is putting 599 BHP on the ground after pushing past those filters and then through the drive train.
In the states it’s quite common to repower a truck with older engines to get around emissions restrictions, it’s quite common to see trucks that are 20 years old with brand new 700+hp power plants like the C-15/16/18, K19 etc for applications that make it cost effective. Even brand new trucks are often available without an engine for the end user to put whatever powerplant they prefer in it.
No manufacturers will sell a chassis/body without an engine anymore in the US. Freightliner was the last to do it. I'm sure you could probably legally do it yourself but I'm unsure of the laws regarding it.
Glider kits. I heard they'd put a stop to those.
there's a lot of older suped up semis with 800hp cams in them if they can get around the emissions, but the Engine OEMs have had to focus on emissions and fuel mileage instead of power for 15 yrs now cause of the Govt
Yes, but with a much lower torque than that of a European and let's not talk about consumption, the American truck is much lower than the European.
@@cmusic52 good for them
Stating that you need torque and not horse powers if quite misleading. Yes, you need torque at the wheels. But physics doesn't care if your engine produces high torque at low rpm or low torque at high rpm. Just have a appropriate gearbox and shift in the right way, both can translate to the same torque at given speed at the wheels.
In Denmark and other countries, 82 ft, 60 ton "road-trains" have been allowed. Denmark is currently testing 105 ft, 80 ton "road-trains". These articulated semi's have to follow assigned roads, and are not allowed on small roads or in towns and cities.
Thanks for sharing 👍
In Finland we have had extra-long trucks (Australia-long) for few years. I am amazed how they can drive even in some suburban setting. The local supermarket gets deliveries with those and the trucks have to cross the whole roundabout to make turn (center of the roundabout is slightly elevated, but can be driven over).
Here in New Zealand there are a lot of Japanese trucks, Many do 500 HP, but they don't have the torque of the Europeans or American. There could be a video for that. Many trucks operate on High Productivity permits and max at 50 tonne, are longer with lots of axles and tyres because of the 'Road User Charges' road tax system, the older types are shorter and operate to 44 tonne. For many, big power is needed on our mostly hilly country.
Lower engine torque is just deal with the gearing, in the end, it actually is the torque output that doesn't matter, rather the horsepower and torque distribution curve is the important one. You will always be using the horsepower at the crank in the end, since you'll be accelerating a load, given HP = torque x RPM. Wheel torque will determine if you will be able to move the load at all, and if you will, how fast you'll accelerate it. The moment the wheels move it's already the HP acting.
@@Kalvinjj Exactly! Theoretically an engine with 2000 Nm and 500 hp will perform exactly the same as an engine with 20 Nm and 500 hp, IF (!) a *frictionless* 100:1 gearbox is used AND the torque curve is the same shape. Beside the fact that nothing is ever frictionless, this would also mean that the 20 Nm engine would run at ridiculous RPMs, but it shows that torque is less important than people think.
@@marcaroni2012 Yes, I love using the M4 Abrams tank as an example. It has a ~10000 RPM turbine as it's engine. To actually make good use of it, a 10:1 reduction is used and bang you got close to 10x the torque (I think 9.5x at that output shaft would be reasonable?) at 1000 RPM.
Even trucks wouldn't do much work without the big driving wheel differential doing even more mechanical reduction there.
Very interesting.
I'm from Europe and I thought for most of the arguments it would be the other way round...
The huge majority of overland trucks in the EU is rated for 40t and has between 420 and 480 HP. Those very powerful trucks with 500+HP are really rare.
They are usually for special purpose as extra heavy hauling (eg log hauling) or owner operated trucks for prestige and nice -to-have.
And the general speed limit for trucks is 80km/h so they do not mix very well with cars anyways.
Also the railroad system is very good developed in Europe and many loads are transported by rail (not as many as there should be).
Owner operated trucks are not common and big companies only buy what they need.
Well said, absolutely correct!
That depends where on the continent of Europe you are! Come to Scandinavia and you’ll commonly see Scanias’ with that V8 badge on the front.
I don't think rail has much to do with it honestly. The US has the largest rail network in the world by a wide margin and virtually all of it is used for freight. This is also why our passenger rail services are relatively few and operate at a much lower speed.
@@oscarbanana6159 you're right. I did some research after dropping my comment. In the USA 40% of all goods are transported by railroad, in the EU only 20%
Didn't expect that. 😉
500 hp is not rear.look arround man.are you a driver?
The distance From London to Rome is about 1200 Miles. The distance between between LA and New York is about 2800 miles.
With one mountain range with a max of 11,000 ft between it and New York and another through Appellations that maxes at 5000 ft.
You get used to trucks doing 20-30 MPH going up and down those ranges.
But in states where 75 MPH is allowed. They do it. Some trucks are speed limited by the owner to 62 MPH. Most of the highway is 65 MPH.
pretty sure any truck that ever goes into Ontario has to be governed to 62mph
I do not see the significance of mentioning the London-Rome distance, might as well have mentioned Lisbon to Tallinnwhich is just under 2700 miles...
@@zephyros256 Mountains. Phoenix to Miami 3800KM No mountains. No need for big horse power.
The Grapevine is 40 miles of up and down 5-6% grade
Seattle to San Diego. Big Horsepower. Big grades. Lots of them
This may explain it. California has problem with diesel. Wants all electric and everybody else to pay for and generate all of it. The real fun is turning the A/C off to keep the engine from over heating when it is 45C and pulling a long grade. Pretty a much normal day for summer in inland California.
Also between London and Rome lots of mountains and roads that have lots of curves and elevation changes. Need short wheelbase and big horsepower.
London to Rome needs lots of horsepower to move perishables.
These old timers were made for the west coast. The diesel units are used to provide A/C and electrical power for the passenger cars. The steamers are pulling everything.
Used in the 40s for 100 MPH passenger travel.
news.yahoo.com/why-sp-4449-badass-train-143100520.html
locomotive.fandom.com/wiki/Union_Pacific_844
czcams.com/video/7qD_uGmVsHc/video.html
Appalachians.
Utah is about the size of Germany, with approximately 80 mountain ranges. Highway 40 in NE Utah is a corridor for crude oil hauling, and has extensive passing /turning lanes for regular traffic to pass trucks that while powerful, are underpowered for the 129,000 pounds they typically load.(47k truck/trailers, 82k oil). Climing out of the Uintah Basin to SLC is typically a 3+ hour drive loaded, and a 2 1/2 hour return trip, which includes a refueling stop. I've had to use tire chains twice so far this season, and that's with aggressive plowing on the passes during storms, (God bless those plow drivers)
With that, and the narrators accent in mind, this video comes off as a wee bit biased.
This was a great informative video. Not too simple and not too complicated. Graphics were really nice as well. Good job!
Thanks alot 👍
In Australia, 42 tonnes.
But 90 or 120 with permits
I'm from Ireland and I wish we had the USA style with the huge sleeper cab because ours are tiny with no space but the bull nose cab whould be hard to drive here because of how tight our road's are and pulling out from somewhere with so much sticking out in front whould be a nightmare
Yea even driving one of these large sleeper cabs without a trailer, you might as well be driving around a city bus.😆
@@thebaddestogre-3698 they are not as bad as you think. i drive an 02 peterbuilt with a 450hp cat engine. it is a big nose but i drive this thing in and around new home construction sites all the time with little issue.
Then you haven’t been in the bigger Volvos’ or Scanias that are more common in big Scandinavia, basically a hotel!
@@flashgo2 are you familiar with the average european street? Especially in older cities (where 'older' can mean that some cities are more than a millennium older than the usa)
Why not a cab over instead then.
Heavy loads are more common on rail in the US and they do allow double stack on some freight lines, they don't allow this in europe.
In Europe about 20% of goods are moved by rail and in the US it is about 40% by rail.
The length of the freight train is limited and they aren't as automated as in the US. They have to coupled by hand. This takes many minutes each time.
Double stack may be difficult on a fully electrified railroad system 😁
Double stack also will not go through 100 percent of our tunnels in Europe -- we have many of them. Also, most bridges will put a double stack train to a full stop. So it is not a matter of being allowed, it is just not possible on most tracks.
@@kaefjot08 That's part of what is known as "loading gage" in railroad terminology. Each route has a loading gage that determines the maximum height and width, and in some cases non-articulated length that a load can be. The US has traditionally had larger tunnels than most of Europe, so can run physically larger cars or container stacks.
The US also basically has no electrified railroads. There are electrified sections in the northeast of the country that are primarily passenger routes, but in the rest of the US, the electrified lines of the 1940s have all disappeared. (There are electrified commuter lines in various cities. But these are dedicated light rail lines that carry no freight.) So catenary height is generally not a consideration. If the US ever does reconsider electrified rail transport (which is not that likely in the near future) they could pick a higher standard catenary height than in the EU.
A quick check shows height for a double stack to be 20 feet 2 inches. The EU catenary height is in the 16.5 to 17.5 foot range (5.08 to 5.3 meters). So the EU can't run double stacks on electrified line. Some US electrified line is about 21 to 22 feet high, so would (just barely) clear a double stack.
Well I mean trains in the US can be coupled with no extra effort but you still need someone to connect all the airlines between the railcars, so there's still a good amount of work to do on these very long trains
We also have automatic couplers in Europe, just not very common on freight but they are used.
Finland also has the longest trucks of EU with the maximum lenght of 34 meters, we dont mess around. We sometimes use 650HP volvos to deliver groceries.
In Ireland high power trucks are a status symbol you will see many Scania 700+ bhp trucks in fleets
The point with different weights seems to be totally off to me. Since every state of the us has got its own special rules too for within state transports, with much heavyer allowed total weights with a lot of axles and double trailers and all kinds of stuff like that.
Michigan as far as i know allows 67t total with their 11 axle combinations for example.
The first major mistake was made less than a minute in. Torque is NOT the only thing to care about. Horsepower is the product of torque and RPM. Torque is FORCE, while horsepower is WORK. It is horsepower that allows you to maintain speed up a steep grade.
I am truck driver in EU and I have to say that in Europe, 90% of the trucks are a maximum of 550hp. As a mather of fact, i never worked on a truck more powerfull than 460hp, wich is the "sweet spot" in the (power-fuel consumphtion). The most powerfull trucks 770hp are used in havy loads, over 40tons, or in Scandinavia, for the 25m trucks.
So, in Europe more powerfull trucks are made, but not used!
The Bigger engined lorries/trucks are mainly used for Static Caravans/Mobile Homes, oversized loads (like wind turbine blades and huge gas pipe sections or concrete foundations for towers) & where a big turbo diesel engine helps with fuel efficiency. Quite a few firms use DAF and Iveco over Volvo and Scania, but I know a few who do European-UK driving who only buy Volvo and Scania trucks so they have the ability to task drivers to different jobs and be more flexible.
When I buy my own tractor unit, it is likely to be a Volvo FH unit in Globetrotter trim level. Nice interior is good as you are living in the truck for 5-7 days at a time too! I feel some of the American trucks are better in this department with bigger inverters and more space in the cab though.
You said that torque is the amount of work that engine can make but it is exactly definition of the power. :)
actually torque is the strength of the engine....
@@Ale55andr082 actually torque can and will be converted in the gearbox and drivetrain.
@@Ale55andr082 torque is a measurable twisting force whereas hp is a RATE of power; ft lbs over time.
Most of the Central Europe Trucks have 430 - 540? HP, 2300-2700Nm, so in real life, the difference in the "standard semi trucks", where the driver is at home just for the weekend, is not so big. Reason: Fuel efficency... So there is clearly to accentuate: they have "up to " 770 HP. You don't see them every day in Germany f.e.
In Europe it is very common to see trucks over 540hp, in Spain you can carry up to 70 tons approx, but it is also very common to see large engines for 25 tons of cargo... A 630hp Mercedes with 40 tons spends less fuel than a 500hp American
Some large brands building civilian trucks are missing:
- Astra, it is part of the Iveco group, but it's the side manufacturing rugged trucks for more difficult terrains use. Dump trucks, construction trucks, mining trucks, military.
- KAMAZ, Russian (so in Europe), up to 535 hp for export, Cummins engine
- Tatra, Czech with great chassis, and their own engine line.
- Sisu, Finland
There are some brands coming in Europe mostly from Asia
- Ford manufactured in Turkey, but with a max 500 HP, or 2'500 Nm, using Ecotorq 12,7L
. Hyundai, with electric fuel cell trucks starts to become large in Switzerland, 3'400 Nm torque
- Switzerland is developping electric trucks. They built the largest electric dump truck for quarries and mines (vigier)
- Other Swiss truck, DesignWerk Technologies, using a Volvo base, but a Swiss powertrain, world record of distance for a battery powered electric truck,
hah, quite random but at 3:53 you see an engine getting transported over my workplace. that long blue tube/air sucker you see behind the engine is above my head right now.
In the 1970s after the fuel shortage many US trucking companies thought that, like a car, a small engine would be more fuel efficient than a big one so that is what they bought. (like in the 200 to 300hp range) But the owner opperaters continued to get bigger engines (especially Catepillar) and demonstrated that a big engine that was not pushed very hard got better real world fuel mileage than a little engine that you had to flail the crap out of to get anywhere.
But before engines had less HP and did not worry too much about fuel cost, is was cheaper than gasoline. Detroit even used two stroke engines. the N71-238 hp, the 8V-71-318 and the rare 12v-71. The 12V -71 it only got about 2.8 miles per gallon. They are still popular in marine use bacaues it is better in two shaft boats to have the engines turn in opposite directions and being two stroke they can be set up to trun/run backwards quite easily. The did not have valves but ports in the sides of the cylinders and the intake air carme from the crankcase so there was a blower (supercharger) to pressurize the crankcase.. A two stroke engine can be lighter and have more horsepower than a four stroke, basically 2/3 the horsepower twice as often than a four stroke. But they have less torque per horsepower and are not a fuel efficient and polute more, and tend to have a narrow power band that requires more shifting to stay were the power was.
Catepillar's foundatin desigh was a focus on more torque at lower RPM than the other engine makers which today is the feature of truckm and some car, engines today. But with the increassing focus on airpolution and computer controlled electric fuel injection system they decided it was not work their time as their main focus was on large construction equipemnt.
Many engine makers got into financial difficulty designing an engine that would meet the standards and still work. (they made some dogs in the process)
And don't forget the national 55 MPH speed limit in the 70s which lasted for decades
@@LA_Commander It was one of the biggest farces of the times. But this century has eclipsed that geometrically.
@frosty3693 yeah, no kidding, you're very right about that (unfortunately)
The USA version of PACCAR MX13 is rated at 510 HP not 540 HP as shown in video. Thanks for the video.
Also have to remember these are manufacturer specs. The engine in my city truck is very under tuned to save on fuel and reliability but the same engine being used at my previous company they had turned past manufacturer specs and could pull most hills without a problem.
In Brazil, the most common are trucks from 440 to 540 HP, maximum capacity 74T, automatic transmission. Volvo, Scania, DAF, Mercedes Bens, Iveco, speed limit 80km/h, limit of 9 axles, however we have trucks of up to 800 hp, but in special loads.
Europe is years ahead of USA/,Canada.
The last part about customization feels like a mix up.
I know that from the US where drivers tend to own their trucks and partially even live in them for long hauling contracts.
But here in germany I've rarely EVER seen any truck that actually "stood out".
I was invited to test drive a couple of Volvo trucks in Gothenburg a few years ago including the 750 engine. But the lady from Volvo said that You really dont need that for normal Swedish weight limits around 60 metric tonnes. The 540 engine can handle that just fine. But of course drivers love that little extra power.
Says the bean counter lady. Drivers who actually use the equipment will have something else to say, and of course nobody listens to that. Then you end up pulling 64tons with 500hp torturing the living shit out of the truck while the same people before are totally confused about massive maintenance costs.
Everything I know about trucking I learned in American Truck Simulator / Euro Truck Simulator.
Gotta get those big badass engines pronto.
The Detroit engines are made by Daimler, the DD13 and DD16 are found in Actros and Arocs models. But they are tuned to about 30hp more (DD13 to 530hp and DD16 to 630 hp).
Mercedes can give u a different engine 😂 2 Exactly a 12 Cylinder Diesel with 1830 HP and around 6400 NM Torgue and a 16 Cylinder Diesel with 3000 HP and 12300 NM Torgue (both was just a Test Engine for the leopard 2)
I do heavy haul in western Canada. Max legal in Canada is 64 ton. But my truck has to be turned upto 850hp to legally haul the weights that I move 85-150tons.
Some corrections:
Both rail network length road network length and furthest drivable distances are comparible in both the EU and USA and the EU does use freight rail a lot when practical. It's just that we in the EU have quite a bit more trucks than the US, 6 million vs 4 million and some are bound to be required to have more power.
Wow! How things have changed! I have been retired for 15 years, but I am still amazed at the amount of change. International trucks (i.e., Navistar for the last few decades) were hardly even mentioned. As well as the engines.
Ever hear of the CXT(?) pickup truck?
Thank you for your efforts. May you and yours stay well and prosper.
Hi there..... Could you please do a video on various drive axles, differential rear ratio selection, and an explanation of engine downspeeding. Thank- you.
The number of traffic-hours the road can resist before the road mantle gets delaminated, is proportional to the *fourth* power of the load weight/axle...
In my country, trucks with 500 HP are used to carry loads of more than 60 tonnes, usually Scania or Volvo, but there are also those using Hino, Isuzu, Mitsubishi and Nissan which only have 300-400 HP and are forced to carry 60 tonnes
I loved going over Monteagle in a 10spd kenworth. Fun as hell. Wiggle wagon got a Lil loose coming down every now and then.
Funny thing with non-commercial vehicles. In the US you can walk into a Ford, GM or Dodge dealer and buy a 6.7L pickup truck with up to 500hp and 1200 lbft (1700nm), rated to tow 40k lbs. They're quite common in fact. I only have to walk as far as my front porch to count 3 of them (my own + neighbors)😁
Pound for pound these engines are putting up incredible numbers.
You can actually buy Class A RV's that you can legally drive without a CDL (though most places won't sell you one without it).
I think they missed the boat here. For the heavy logging trucks in Canada, they are often spec'd with 565 horsepower rather than 605, even though they are carrying much more that 80,000 lbs over steep hills. The high horsepower is less durable for demanding situations. Australia probably has the biggest weights, but they also don't go as high on the horsepower curve. The Kenworth hauling 500 tons has a 19 liter engine that only puts out 600 horsepower (It also has another engine in one of the trailers.) Here, not only do you have the heavy weight but also 50C heat. Volvo is also used in Australia. I bet they probably don't _usually_ use the 750hp for the most demanding loads but something rated lower. But then why do Europeans use higher horsepower? I think the want higher acceleration to mix with cars better on the smaller roads (as opposed to the huge flat interstates in the US). I know Scania did a test a ways back that concluded it was safer if the trucks cold move with traffic better.
Most EU heavy truck engines last for over 1 million miles, even the high HP versions, so durability is NOT a problem over here.
I work at northwest Greece with lots of mountains and temperatures up to 45c.many trucks here drive illegal overloaded with 50-60 tonnes especially with loads like corn(42 tones legal).the only way to go with this loads are other with volvo 750 or scanias with 16 liter engines.scanias here in Europe are well-known to gain power very easily and the engines last more than 2000000 km.a large percent is tuned at about 800hp.you just cant compare them with 500hp trucks.their only disadvantage is consumption.
Lol I work construction in Maine my Pete has a 600 horse Cummins under the hood and I'm running a tri-ax dump not a trailer. We can run 100,000 pounds GVW with a standard tractor and a tri-ax trailer here.
@@giannisxepis3465 1 million shouldn't be the measurement. They are supposed to hold for 2 million or more
The huge majority of overland trucks in the EU is rated for 40t and has between 420 and 480 HP. Those very powerful trucks with 500+HP are really rare.
They are usually for special purpose as extra heavy hauling (eg log hauling) or owner operated trucks for prestige and nice -to-have.
And the general speed limit for trucks is 80km/h so they do not mix very well with cars anyways.
Did OTR in the USA with a Cummins M11 turned down to 330 HP. The truck with a 10.5 litre motor was lighter than my compatriots with a 60 series Detroit, so they gave me the loads other drivers could not legally haul. Oh joy.
Greetings from an german truck driver. The typical hp for an 40ton truck in europe is about 430 to 500hp. more is not needet and just expensive, and cost money all the time, cause a bigger engine is heavier and burns more fuel cause of more internal loss. You can also drive an 40ton truck with less than 200hp, its just slower. And over 400hp the average speed is not going higher. I had on the road from munich to barcelona an average speed of 88-89km/h with an 90kmh limited truck with an weight of 30tons (ok, i let it run downhill :) )
Your statement about power and torque is wrong. The reason companies choose bigger torque is related to the ability of this engines to produce more power with lower revs. This translates in longevity.
Torque is not the more important figure, HP is. You could have a gasoline engine with 700 HP making 1000 ft/lbs of torque at twice the engine speed hooked to a 2 to 1 speed reducer, and it'll preform the same way.
So you want to drive down the road around 3000 rpm instead of around 1500? Low end power means a lot more when pulling which is where the torque curve is.
The torque curve IS important in a mechanically driven powertrain. Obviously less so as you get more gears, but you don't want your engine screaming. That means pumping losses.
Actually I just looked up the torque curve of a DD15 and found peak torque is at 800 RPM while peak HP is at 1500 HP.
Typically with a gas engine your peak HP is way outside normal driving RPM (unless you are racing). Even with a 2:1 reduction it's going to be a far cry from the same performance. Not to mention it will probably burn at least twice the fuel.
You left out the part about how a DD15 has a redline of about 1800 RPM. So both engines produce their max HP at the end of their RPM range.
@@aaronh6776 true but a DD15 normally runs about 1500 RPM. A gas engine usually doesn't run close to it's upper limits. Normally a 700 HP gas engine is going to run over 6000 RPM. That would be like saying you're going to run 5000 RPM as a normal cruise speed.
You can never have enough power when you are carting stuff,We had 2 tractors and the 150hp one you had to drop a fear from top to get up the hill,the smaller machine that was screwed up from 165 to over 200 could go up with a full load and never had to lift. Makes the job faster.
Maybe less so in Scandinavia, but in the built-up part of Europe the number of starts (and stops) amongst other faster traffic is a factor
In the uk yes there is a shortage of drivers (has been for years) it’s mainly down to very long hours relatively low pay poor and expensive roadside facilities And an expectation of employers to get the job done whatever also if you get caught by the police/ doing anything wrong you WILL GET a large fine and points on your licence
You mentioned the terrain. According to the need from terrain the EU placed minimum requirements of engines many years ago. Before some drove 30 tons with 8HP per metric ton.
Do you happen to know how long ago that was? For southern Europe, I don't think Fiat/OM/Iveco have produced trucks with such low power outputs for 40 years, if not for smaller trucks that were not supposed to carry 30 tons in the first place
@@RickZanardi You caught me 🙃 1958 was the law about 8HP per metric ton. But I assume, that was not the last one because it sounds really low - fits to your note about Fiat.
@@wjhann4836 wow I didn't honestly expect it to be traced so far back. To own a car capable of 120 km/h max was already quite something in 1958 so I didn't expect truck speed on hills to be much of a problem at all, but good to know. Also, I went on wikipedia to have a check, the first semi-trailer trucks produced under the Iveco brand (couldn't check for the earlier Fiats) from the mid 80s started at 320 hp, so 8*40, eheh barely to fit the rule, but nice to see confirmation to things :D
Interesting stuff you guys, hearing different perspectives from around the world 🌎
Here Finland normal payload are mostly 60 tons full lenght trailer, not so much semi trailers. Here is also hilly roads, it feels like there is never enough power going uphill...
The truck driving limit is 90km/h (56mph) limited here in Europe. You need the power on the hill to climb . Otherwise with low power you can’t climb the hill and you lost very fast speed.
The power ist only for the hill! Cause of the speed limit!
Interesting to note the quick passing mention of the shortage of truck drivers in Europe - this is not helped by various factors, most notably the slashing of driver pay (or rather undercutting wages in western Europe by using drivers from eastern Europe). Drivers find that the hassle is not worth it and some choose other jobs. In the UK we also have a dreadful driver licensing bureaucracy that basically went on holiday during the events of 2020+ and has never caught up with its workload since then, so many potential new drivers are kept out of the marketplace simply because they cannot get licensed in the first place.
True. Doesn't seem like the Western European governments care about the drivers either, since they're not enforcing the numerous laws and regulations many Eastern European drivers break all the time.
I just know that my grandpaw's 400hp Cummins sounded so sweet with dual 6" straight pipes.
I've been driving for 40 years! It would be extremely nice to have a V-8 when pulling an extremely heavy load of (iced down broccoli) from Salinas California to Boston Chelsea Market! You have mountains going all the way across the United States!
Another reason for the higher horsepower and vehicle weights in Europe is that diesel costs a lot more in Europe and it is more profitable to haul heavier weights than bigger volumes of freight. In US consideration is being given to increasing trailer length to 60 feet without increasing the weight the trailer can carry.
Thanks for sharing 👍
A correction. 80k pounds in the US is standard freight. You can get overweight permits but there are a lot of extra rules involved. Besides the added weight of the engine, which you mentioned, there is also fuel conservation. Less HP requires less fuel. The transmissions do the conversions that allow smaller hp engines to pull as much, or even more than, the bigger engines. Also have to consider noise pollution rules. Less hp and smaller displacement means less engine noise. In US, you are allowed maximum 40k lbs. on rear and center tandems. Front axles are limited to 12k lbs.
Quite the oposite actualy. If you have a powerfull engine and transmission you will use a *little* extra fuel if you dont use the max capacity compared to the weaker counterpart, but you will save a lot in maintainance. If an engine is approved and capable of running at high rpm to pull a heavy freight, then it will pull a standart trailer with 2 fingers up its nose.
@@altera9666 100% incorrect. The company I contracted to did lease to own. The T680 came with PACCAR MX-13 Engine 12.9 Liter and is rated between 405-510 HP and 1,550 - 1,850 lb-ft of Torque. Under near maximum load, I could pull 8 to 9 mpg in interstate driving conditions. The truck I sat in was dialled back to 485 hp by adjustments on the computer to lower the fuel volume. MPG float depended on whether I was travelling in the north or south of the US. The north being more mountainous used up more fuel but the lower power not only saved fuel but wear and tear on the components. There is a reason why they rebuild race car engines, in most race organizations, after each race. The more power you put into something, the more wear it receives because the explosions in the chamber are more forceful. This transmits all the way down the line to the tires. Have a more power vehicle will even cause the tires to wear a bit faster because you are applying more torque to the road. The one thing that was problematic was DEF systems. If the DEF fired off when you were not on the highway, your engine could not put enough heat out to adequately clean the filters. Again this was a north south thing. In the south, it is generally warmer so the vehicles had less issues with DEF not fully cleaning.
You said it correctly, in the US you can only carry 80,000 lbs of cargo. But did you know that only 25 states in the US require a load of just 80,000 lbs But in the 25 western states You can load cargo weighing 120,000 lbs. or more. In South Dakota, we can load up to 171,000 lbs without needing permission from the government
@phisitjenakkarkul3383 not if you want to get pass a Federal DOT scale. Federal limit for all states is 80k. You can get permits to go higher in most states. I am aware that some less populated states allow piggy backing trailers but you don't see that often. I once seen a tractor pulling 3 full size trailers. They had special exits for them, from the interstate, because they aren't supposed to do anything but highway driving due to the inability to make most turns. For informational purposes. I drove in all 48 continental states. It was not uncommon for me to see both coasts in a single week.
@@OGSomeOne We're not talking about 3 trailers. we are talking about Turnpike double, Super B and Locky Mountains I have a Class A CDL license. I passed the training LCV and HPV I tell you, yes you are right but that is not all. Every state enforces laws that allow a load of 80,000 lbs. But the same There are 25 states that you can load 86,400lbs to 171,000lbs But I'm not telling you that every one of the 25 states I'm told can load up to 100,000 lbs Currently, only 21 states in the U.S. have laws that allow loading of 100,000lbs or more. All this is double Trailer I won't mention triple trailer They cannot load heavy cargo. But just no state allows you to use triple trailer in their state You're right that you need permission to drive like that in a state where the legal weight limit is 80,000lbs But not with these 25 states.
Before Scania started selling the big straight 6 engine, the company i was driving for had a test truck. Must have been in the 90´s when making a cell phonecall was expensive. The test truck had the cab for the big V8 and 4 persons where needed to flip the cab. And only when Scania tec´s where there. It had a phoneline to Scania and technician at Scania could se everything going on in the engine/transmission in real time. And even change the power. I heard 7-800 hp at the top. They could even see the revs at the front and driving wheels. Going uphill at low gears made the driving wheels make alot more revs than the front wheels. Anyhow, it was fun to drive going uphill with more tonnes than the other trucks. It was really flattening the hills. Once i had emty plastic bottles on the truck and trailer, just a few tonnes, i guess the pallets where the heavy stuf. I drove that for 80 km and did not use all gears, The split was in top and the revs started in the basement at idle, then i changed trailer with another truck that had frosen meat up to maximum weight. At that time the Sandöbron (a old bridge) had a maximum weight at 52 tonnes, so now we both could pass the shorter way, and saving an hour. Anyhow getting out from the loading area where tricky and tight so i had to do some cornering, and i felt the added weight from the start. So i called the other driver and told him i made a bad swap, and he was laughing. When i got to the E4 (big road) i saw him way behind in the mirror, i was jumping gears and when i got 80 km/h he was lost. He was going alot faster than me but it took a while for him to catch up with me. Then we came to the first big hill. Hökmarksbacken. The highest point of the whole E4. Then he was lost again, i only used one split in the gearbox and flew ower the top. And still i was the one with the big heavy trailer. He only had a heavy truck. I stalled the engine (had the hi gear) at a broken busy trafic light, i was mooving but the engine did not start when i lifted the clutch, not even with the starting key, the engine was turning but it didn´t start untill i turned the key all the way back to zero. I knew i could pass the crossing, it was downhill, but i didn´t want to be standing on the E4 waiting for Scania tec to come. My brain where working full time at that moment. And i didn´t have a cellphone at that time.
Here in New Zealand we get both European and American trucks. We are nowhere the size of America or Europe, our limits are 40 tons on ordinary days. We do over that weight on special permits and on certain roads. Then we also have over size trucks (moving a house or similar) which can only be done at certain times of night. Both American and European trucks do well here in New Zealand (nz)
Do you have any NZ or Australia made trucks?
@@marcpikas2859 nah. Basically all are imported as right hand drives. Or put together under license from manufacturers. No actual trucks designed and made in australia and nz
Kia Ora from Phoenix Arizona
@@salmonella6744 Speak english. Not everyone here in New Zealand speaks dam bloody maori
@@marcpikas2859 Australian plant manufacture modified versions of American trucks, and unique Australian only versions, ie the SAR Kenworth.
Various brands are modified highly here to pull the 3 and 4 trailer road trains with up to 120 wheel combinations.
120 and 140 ton rated prime movers are common outside metro areas here but 550hp is an average minimum 660 Signatures and on the private mine roads 7 trailer rigs with coordinated pusher motor trailers making up to combined 1400hp pulling 260 plus tonnes.
Coastal interstaters B double and 42.5 ton single trailer units are very similar to Euro and or American rigs running B trailer tri-axles most commonly and like NZ there are bigger Japanese prime movers on the road here, such as Hino and Isuzu's running 500/550 hp however for the big stuff and remote outback roads mostly modified American prime movers though there are more Euros appearing, ie the Scania V8's,.
At one time here the only trucks many operators found would stand up to Outback road conditions were the Australian modified Kenworths and the conventional cab Mack's, Superliners, RS series especially running prized the E9 CAT V8.
Still most heavy outback cattle trucks are Kenworth and Mack' with double C section chassis.
Gearing is the trick and most heavy outback rigs tend to run lower final drive ratios than Euro and American lightweight interstates negating the need for larger HP.
Western Star also feature more in the heavy rig dept now as well.
Volvo builds engines for Mack and paints them red Mack colors. The engines range in sizes from 11 liters to 13 liters. We used to build the 16 liter but it was phased out in the US around 5-7 years ago
Volvo owns Mack. Volvo D16 engine did not make it in US because was running hot at high speeds, (70-75 mph). The cooling system was not designed for this speeds and if you add some Arizona and Texas heat you have a big problem. And D16 was only rated at 620 HP in US and still did not make it.
@@giacomu1 ironically in Australia they run in much hotter weather and longer distances. Strange they ran" hot" in the US. We run the Globetrotter Cabover which runs in the Middle East and Africa as well
@@robertryan7204 they probably have larger radiators in those trucks.
@@groofromtheup5719 Australia can get very hot yes
Volvo engines ARE traditionally red....
Trucks with too small engines are often a "problem" in Norway, because the small engines combined with a lot of steep hills and tunnels often causes problems and extremely slow going trucks upp hill.
Trucks with bad tires, lack of chains, not optimal drive axle and lack of experience in winter conditions are also causing a huge mess on the Norwegian roads each winter.
You can't blame inexperienced drivers, we all have to learn. Those who are experienced now, used to be struggling rookies too. I'm doing my second trip to the Alps today and the one thing that stresses me out most is being seen as the annoying slow newbie. Cause that's what kind of behavior you get when you take it slow and sometimes make mistakes on the road
@@buzjevur I understand your situation, but the requirements for being a truck driver in Norway are high and if you don't have the education to drive on winter roads you should not start by doing it alone.
Taking it slow is often a good thing, but you would need to let other drivers by. Also remember that good winter tires is key, and chains should be used when needed. It is to late to put on chains when you are stuck and causing problems for others by blocking the road etc.
*2/2* You didn’t mention Navistar, which owns International, recently bought by Traton group (Volkswagen group) they use to produce the Maxxforce series of engines, their latest is the A26, and soon their S13 powertrain is coming.