I feel like people have even more adrenaline during the relay because of the boost of the not wanting to disappoint your teammates and the pressure of running for your country
Really its just that your split time starts when you get the baton at which point you are already running, this cuts the acceleration phase out of your time and is the reason men like Bolt were able to split sub 9 in the 4x1
I ran around a 56-57 in a timed one. My first 200 was like 28 and my last 200 was around 28ish. I ran this super relaxed and focused on form and it felt like I glided through the first 200. The last 200 felt good so I defintely could have gone faster but overall it was relaxation that let me do it
Can you post the splits for Alyson Felix and Davian Clarke? If your hypothesis is correct, their last 100m in the 4X400 should be faster than the last 100m in their 400m flat races. Your argument seems to make sense even if it is counter intuitive, we would need to see a bit more data than two athletes but it is intriguing.
yes, they do run the last 100m faster, you can see it with the naked eye. Clarke ran 11.8 in the relay and 12.4 in the semifinal which he ran several days earlier in a time of 45.07. Felix also runs half a second faster in the relay. What's more, the fastest final 100m times were achieved in relays. Jeremy Wariner ran 11.10 during his 43.10 split in Osaka. Michael Johnson had 11.0 during his 42.94.
Interesting. I've found my sprinting workouts to be more effective and less injurious, with more distance covered within the same time by "easing into" the sprints with gradual, smooth acceleration. It stands to reason the same principle applies to a race, within a much, much shorter time frame. But that said, it is reasonable to expect better relay splits because they do get a running start, rather than from 0.
(I'm Japanese and I'm sorry if there are inappropriate English) It is said that running in outer lane will be advantageous for 200m and 400m races because the curve is loose, which make us accelerate smoothly and decelerate little. In addition, in outer lane the first curve is short and we can go into the back stretch at high speed which enables to earn time. In this theory to reach high speed in the first 50m is important(on the condition to run in outer lane).
you are right, every sprinter wants to accelerate as quickly as possible but to spend minimum energy. Basically, every sprinter needs the perfect balance between fast and wasteful. I never said you need to accelerate slowly.
Bros speaking facts, this literally happened to me earlier in my season, i ran 56.45 in my 4x400m relay, then didn't crack that time until almost 5 months later when i went 55.40 in an open 400m, both these races i was relaxed, and then i tensed up in my next race only coming in with a time of 56.03.
I’m my personal experience running the 400 and the 4x400. The feeling of not wanting to let your relay team down is a big part of why we run faster when on a team
You also need to take into account that most sprinters are actually slower out of the blocks than while standing up. At least 0.1 or 0.3 seconds slower. Knowing that 400m runners do not really focus on mastering the blocks, you could see a significant difference in their performance.
@@lao1168 The blocks are faster when you know how to use them. It seems like he is talking about sprinters that don't know how to use blocks. Blocks are obvisouly faster than a standing start, otherwise the change from standing starts to block starts would have never happened.
@@lukedavis6289 Well, that change happened in the days of cinder tracks. It's much easier to screw up the first step on cinder than it is on a synthetic track. Although I still believe that blocks are faster for the best of the best since you effectively get a jump start.
i always felt that my best starts were not the fastest, which felt strange, but this makes me understand. the reason they feel so good and I perform so well is because im relaxed and getting into a good position without wasting energy.
I think this is useful information. I definitely feel that this is a factor. Do you believe that other factors such as lane 1 and the relay influence contributes to the faster times as well?
Im not sure I agree with the assessment that relay accelerations are more efficient. The only reason relay splits are faster than open times is dues to the fact that your split time starts when you get the baton at which point you are already running. This cuts the acceleration phase out of your time altogether and is the reason men like Usain Bolt were able to split sub 9 in the 4x1. It is also the reason for the first leg of the race usually having the slowest split, they have to preform a block start, whereas everyone else has already accelerated before their time technically begins.
@@TheWayToWin I honestly dont know why that is, but my knowledge of this obscure event does not change the fact that while no one has ever even approached the sub 9 barrier in the open 100 meter dash, it has, on multiple occasions been broken in the 4x1. To me it seems that a running start would be a more plausible explanation for this decrease in time, than a more, "Economical acceleration."
@@valinwittenburg1874 a running start means that you have to run at least 10 extra meters. This is a huge energy expenditure. So sprinters with inefficient acceleration are not able to run 200 meters in a relay faster than the open 200 meters. At 400 meters it is even harder. However, smooth and uniform acceleration in 4x400 allows sprinters to save a lot of energy, and some of them run their leg 2.5 seconds faster than their 400m PB.
This is exactly what I was thinking. The fact that you can start running before your time starts is a huge advantage. For my 400m relays, it's common for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th person to end up running faster times than their open 400m.
My only argument against this video is that compare to relays and open your already standing up in the relay (unless your the first leg) and your in the blocks in the open. Plus like you said in the video the runner have to match in the incoming runner so you already have a higher speed than being still in the blocks.
@@PrentisHancock1 Yeah he lost credibility on this point for me. It's widely known that a flying start is ~1 second faster. It's no surprise at all that a 44.8 runner managed a 43.8 relay split.
I believe valid point with mastering the acceleration efficiency but don't think the absolute main reason relay splits are faster (You never at 0kmh when in relay except first part where usually no exceptional good times achieved).
Allyson Felix takes a walking start which means she is literally walking the first 10 meters and still runs her all-time best. What difference does it make that it was not a fully stationary start?
@@TheWayToWin ... I didn't say the acceleration efficiency is not a point and there is no example which would underline it (use an example of Felix ... even I thought official splits are not measured by the initial move of the athlete but the baton move ... but now I'm not sure/confused a bit on this one...) ... anyway still most of the relay comparisons will/could benefit from rolling start don't You agree with that as well (alongside with the importance of the acceleration efficiency and several other things of course) ...
@Benjamin Lee that's true. But at the same time when Allyson Felix literally walks the first 10 meters the reaction time does not make much of a difference.
@@TheWayToWin I agree that a more smooth and relaxed first half of the race will manage the energy better and lead to faster times, but it is not just the acceleration why relay runners run better, it is a ton of other factors. And your argument on efficient and relaxed accels in a relay is contradictory. It may be, in general, more relaxed but that doesn't always mean more efficient. Some athletes angles and acceleration is not good in a relay. Not only that, but often in relays athletes run the first 200m way faster, which is often why their 400m splits are faster. Athletes run more relaxed bc: they are focused on getting the baton to their next teammate, they are competing for something bigger than themselves and are less internally focused and anxious, they are right next to the other runners which makes it more primal and gives them immediate feedback on any changes in velocity, which allows them to maintain their speed better, or notice when someone else makes a move, and because often the athlete they are chasing is breaking the wind for them and that is a huge benefit at the velocities of a 400m run. There are other factors, too but it is misleading to attribute it all to the acceleration. There is more nuance than this video.
Confused. Getting the baton with a running start seems obviously to result in a faster time. I don't think this means one should go out slower in the open. I find going out close to 100% for the first 50m, ASSUMING IT'S RELAXED and then settling in, is the best strategy. Other opinions?
@@fooni7400 All measurements are from zero to 400 exactly (When the runner crosses the starting line to when crossing the finish line). My point is that the last 3 runners have a running start at zero, rather than from a dead start---and that's a difference of close to .5 seconds gained right there.
@@richardgallimore5976 Yea it's silly that he didn't even acknowledge this, it's pretty obvious he had the hypothesis in mind and then looked for supporting details afterwards
The point of the video is to run as fast as possible and to use energy as little as possible. Every athlete should find his or her perfect balance between very fast and economical. t is definitely wrong to go out very hard in any race.
@@TheWayToWin True the curve are less tight but you have to have a nearly perfect plan to execute the race to go that fast because he didn't see anyone the whole race.
@@BusinessMan_ForthePeople Thank you. Not everyone is doping, but not everyone is clean.
Před 3 lety+1
Because the point of that comparasion is the difference. He is showing us the difference between flat-out start and relaxed start. And you say they on steroids like what the fuck it doesnt matter thats not the point
My theory is the baton gives you superpowers 😂 But having a relaxed running start helps splits be much faster than open times!
open times will be fast too with relaxed acceleration
I feel like people have even more adrenaline during the relay because of the boost of the not wanting to disappoint your teammates and the pressure of running for your country
@@NewEraaG i found myself destroying better sprinters in 4x100m relay, i kinda feel extra motivation for the team and i alway ran faster in relays
@@sirjozo_8170 yeah i had the exact same
Really its just that your split time starts when you get the baton at which point you are already running, this cuts the acceleration phase out of your time and is the reason men like Bolt were able to split sub 9 in the 4x1
I didn't realize these facts about the 400m. In terms of analitics. You're the best athletics channel.
thanks for watching!
Nice breakdown, the 400 will be just as interesting to see as the 100m and 200m. there’s plenty of talent it seems in that event
thanks for watching!
I ran around a 56-57 in a timed one. My first 200 was like 28 and my last 200 was around 28ish. I ran this super relaxed and focused on form and it felt like I glided through the first 200. The last 200 felt good so I defintely could have gone faster but overall it was relaxation that let me do it
Can you post the splits for Alyson Felix and Davian Clarke? If your hypothesis is correct, their last 100m in the 4X400 should be faster than the last 100m in their 400m flat races. Your argument seems to make sense even if it is counter intuitive, we would need to see a bit more data than two athletes but it is intriguing.
yes, they do run the last 100m faster, you can see it with the naked eye. Clarke ran 11.8 in the relay and 12.4 in the semifinal which he ran several days earlier in a time of 45.07. Felix also runs half a second faster in the relay. What's more, the fastest final 100m times were achieved in relays. Jeremy Wariner ran 11.10 during his 43.10 split in Osaka. Michael Johnson had 11.0 during his 42.94.
So you are saying that athletes should accelerate smoothly from the start instead of rushing it in the beginning right?
Do what you feel is best for you.
@@TheWayToWin Ok thanks
@@TheWayToWin does this work in the 50m race or the distance is too short for it to work?
@@Christs_Apologet The distance is too short, accelerate as fast as you can and relax once you hit top speed to maintane the speed
Interesting. I've found my sprinting workouts to be more effective and less injurious, with more distance covered within the same time by "easing into" the sprints with gradual, smooth acceleration. It stands to reason the same principle applies to a race, within a much, much shorter time frame. But that said, it is reasonable to expect better relay splits because they do get a running start, rather than from 0.
No. They get faster split in a relay because of more economical acceleration.
In the video all athletes are measured from 0 aka their first step .
(I'm Japanese and I'm sorry if there are inappropriate English) It is said that running in outer lane will be advantageous for 200m and 400m races because the curve is loose, which make us accelerate smoothly and decelerate little. In addition, in outer lane the first curve is short and we can go into the back stretch at high speed which enables to earn time.
In this theory to reach high speed in the first 50m is important(on the condition to run in outer lane).
you are right, every sprinter wants to accelerate as quickly as possible but to spend minimum energy. Basically, every sprinter needs the perfect balance between fast and wasteful. I never said you need to accelerate slowly.
Bros speaking facts, this literally happened to me earlier in my season, i ran 56.45 in my 4x400m relay, then didn't crack that time until almost 5 months later when i went 55.40 in an open 400m, both these races i was relaxed, and then i tensed up in my next race only coming in with a time of 56.03.
I’m my personal experience running the 400 and the 4x400. The feeling of not wanting to let your relay team down is a big part of why we run faster when on a team
Michael Johnson is the G.O.A.T of the one lap race 42.94.
Exactly, considering the fact that the difference between running on lane 1 and lane 8 is at least
0.3 seconds due to centrifugal forces.
@@TheWayToWin I didn't think of that. That only makes it more impressive
@@parisellis5853 That's the reason why Warholm deliberately tries to break the world record out of lane 8.
@@Elliottklassen exactly! With the added complexity, lane 8 gives even more advantage to a hurdler.
@@Elliottklassen Warholm knows his pace and runs his race. He doesn't need to see his opponents or care about them.
You also need to take into account that most sprinters are actually slower out of the blocks than while standing up. At least 0.1 or 0.3 seconds slower. Knowing that 400m runners do not really focus on mastering the blocks, you could see a significant difference in their performance.
Why are they slower? Also why use blocks instead of this is true? I'm not saying your wrong, but rather quite the opposite. I'm intrigued
@@lao1168 The blocks are faster when you know how to use them. It seems like he is talking about sprinters that don't know how to use blocks. Blocks are obvisouly faster than a standing start, otherwise the change from standing starts to block starts would have never happened.
@@lukedavis6289 Well, that change happened in the days of cinder tracks. It's much easier to screw up the first step on cinder than it is on a synthetic track. Although I still believe that blocks are faster for the best of the best since you effectively get a jump start.
i always felt that my best starts were not the fastest, which felt strange, but this makes me understand. the reason they feel so good and I perform so well is because im relaxed and getting into a good position without wasting energy.
thats true
True the baton do give you superpowers
Very interesting. The acceleration might be more of an intensive part of form than it seems.
it is extremely intensive
4x400 relay most runners just leave everything on the track. The baton do help you keep your form.
Coach Clarke is a 🐐
absolutely
I think this is useful information. I definitely feel that this is a factor. Do you believe that other factors such as lane 1 and the relay influence contributes to the faster times as well?
lane 1 is the slowest
Im not sure I agree with the assessment that relay accelerations are more efficient. The only reason relay splits are faster than open times is dues to the fact that your split time starts when you get the baton at which point you are already running. This cuts the acceleration phase out of your time altogether and is the reason men like Usain Bolt were able to split sub 9 in the 4x1. It is also the reason for the first leg of the race usually having the slowest split, they have to preform a block start, whereas everyone else has already accelerated before their time technically begins.
so maybe you can then explain why the 4x200 relay splits are usually slower than the open 200m times?
@@TheWayToWin I honestly dont know why that is, but my knowledge of this obscure event does not change the fact that while no one has ever even approached the sub 9 barrier in the open 100 meter dash, it has, on multiple occasions been broken in the 4x1. To me it seems that a running start would be a more plausible explanation for this decrease in time, than a more, "Economical acceleration."
@@valinwittenburg1874 a running start means that you have to run at least 10 extra meters. This is a huge energy expenditure. So sprinters with inefficient acceleration are not able to run 200 meters in a relay faster than the open 200 meters. At 400 meters it is even harder. However, smooth and uniform acceleration in 4x400 allows sprinters to save a lot of energy, and some of them run their leg 2.5 seconds faster than their 400m PB.
This is exactly what I was thinking. The fact that you can start running before your time starts is a huge advantage. For my 400m relays, it's common for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th person to end up running faster times than their open 400m.
Hey, wait a minute, during relay they run in a pack during the later stages, could not redused wind resistence
be a crucial factor here?
Yes...but not if you're at the front, you can conserve energy by running directly behind someone and benefit from the splitstream.
Unless you're right on their heels it will be insignificant over this distance.
So a 2 point start(standing) would be better than blocks for a 400m?
3 point start I suppose is the best
My only argument against this video is that compare to relays and open your already standing up in the relay (unless your the first leg) and your in the blocks in the open. Plus like you said in the video the runner have to match in the incoming runner so you already have a higher speed than being still in the blocks.
But remember he measured from first step and not from when they got the baton.
Agreed. There's a big difference between a block start and a rolling relay start. They are not comparable.
@@fooni7400 so that would mean a 2 point start (standing up) would be better than blocks for a 400m
@@PrentisHancock1 Yeah he lost credibility on this point for me. It's widely known that a flying start is ~1 second faster. It's no surprise at all that a 44.8 runner managed a 43.8 relay split.
@@afamobi93 you missed the point completely. Davian Clarke was measured from the first step when he had zero velocity.
I believe valid point with mastering the acceleration efficiency but don't think the absolute main reason relay splits are faster (You never at 0kmh when in relay except first part where usually no exceptional good times achieved).
Allyson Felix takes a walking start which means she is literally walking the first 10 meters and still runs her all-time best. What difference does it make that it was not a fully stationary start?
@@TheWayToWin ... I didn't say the acceleration efficiency is not a point and there is no example which would underline it (use an example of Felix ... even I thought official splits are not measured by the initial move of the athlete but the baton move ... but now I'm not sure/confused a bit on this one...) ... anyway still most of the relay comparisons will/could benefit from rolling start don't You agree with that as well (alongside with the importance of the acceleration efficiency and several other things of course) ...
ok
@Benjamin Lee that's true. But at the same time when Allyson Felix literally walks the first 10 meters the reaction time does not make much of a difference.
@@TheWayToWin I agree that a more smooth and relaxed first half of the race will manage the energy better and lead to faster times, but it is not just the acceleration why relay runners run better, it is a ton of other factors. And your argument on efficient and relaxed accels in a relay is contradictory. It may be, in general, more relaxed but that doesn't always mean more efficient. Some athletes angles and acceleration is not good in a relay. Not only that, but often in relays athletes run the first 200m way faster, which is often why their 400m splits are faster. Athletes run more relaxed bc: they are focused on getting the baton to their next teammate, they are competing for something bigger than themselves and are less internally focused and anxious, they are right next to the other runners which makes it more primal and gives them immediate feedback on any changes in velocity, which allows them to maintain their speed better, or notice when someone else makes a move, and because often the athlete they are chasing is breaking the wind for them and that is a huge benefit at the velocities of a 400m run. There are other factors, too but it is misleading to attribute it all to the acceleration. There is more nuance than this video.
Yet the babe never gave us a true sub 49.00 open 400m.
Does co2 tolerance help in increasing speed? And also could you mention the weight of shoes, sprinters use ?
they weigh less than 200gr, mine weighs 130gr
What's that with Allysson FeliX? At 1:45 she has a split-time of 47,72 and at 2:15 she has a time of 49,01.
Are these different races?
The starting and finishing points are different.
Confused. Getting the baton with a running start seems obviously to result in a faster time. I don't think this means one should go out slower in the open. I find going out close to 100% for the first 50m, ASSUMING IT'S RELAXED and then settling in, is the best strategy. Other opinions?
I think he said he measured from first step, not when they got the baton. So starting is still 0 m/s. Unless he did something wrong
@@fooni7400 All measurements are from zero to 400 exactly (When the runner crosses the starting line to when crossing the finish line). My point is that the last 3 runners have a running start at zero, rather than from a dead start---and that's a difference of close to .5 seconds gained right there.
@@MrTrackman100 going out close to 100% for the first 50m is exactly the way to run 400 one second slower than you potentially can.
Any advice on running a 3 mile?
bro said a whole bunch of nothing
all he said is you run faster splits in a 4 by 4
but that is obvious u get the lane switch, running start
At 0.11 Steven Gardiner obliterates
he will be mentioned in the next parts for sure
Relay times are always faster Bcus the athlete doesn’t have to stay in the lane- they start off in lane 6 but cut to lane 1 no?
no, the athletes we are talking about started and finished in lane one.
@@TheWayToWin damnn crazy how much being relaxed improves performance
@@crossedpear43 yes
Relay times you are already moving though so the majority of the time save should be from that.
@@richardgallimore5976 Yea it's silly that he didn't even acknowledge this, it's pretty obvious he had the hypothesis in mind and then looked for supporting details afterwards
does this work in the 50m race or the distance is too short for it to work?
Absolutely
The point of the video is to run as fast as possible and to use energy as little as possible. Every athlete should find his or her perfect balance between very fast and economical. t is definitely wrong to go out very hard in any race.
I mean yes but Wade's 400 time (without his reaction time of .18 would be 42.85 so technically he still did it the fastest
lane 8 is at least 0.4 faster than lane 1 so technically his adjusted time is solid 43.4- 43.5
@@TheWayToWin True the curve are less tight but you have to have a nearly perfect plan to execute the race to go that fast because he didn't see anyone the whole race.
Oh yeah thanks for replying too.
Thanks for watching
@@TheWayToWin No problem, keep up the great content.
Relaxing runnings really ? Yeahaa maybe ? But how about no reaction time at all in the Team Rely as sprinter see team mate coming ?
How about walking start?
I need part 3😩
why?
@@TheWayToWin look ate his channel
@@aarvinoth9452 ok
How do you accelerate smoothly??
95 per cent of your max effort
@@TheWayToWin ah thank you
USA Google video
First 😏
Why do you compare old footage decades ago where they all were on steriods
Why does it feel like u comment this on every track video u see
You can’t just say everyone was on steroids. You can call me ignorant all you want but that the truth
@@BusinessMan_ForthePeople Thank you. Not everyone is doping, but not everyone is clean.
Because the point of that comparasion is the difference. He is showing us the difference between flat-out start and relaxed start. And you say they on steroids like what the fuck it doesnt matter thats not the point