lol I just pictured it. Druid in bear form walks up to a flight master: "RAWWWWR!" "Ehm.... what?" "RRRAAAAR!" "Ahhh get away from me!" Druid shapeshifts into Night Elf form: "Sorry, I'd like to fly to Astranaar please."
I'd go tame a starting zone pet before they would level up to your level, eyes of the beast in a patrol pattern and kill levelers with my pet when they attacked it.
Oh yeah. Our only ability usable for first kill celebrations and the like. Everyone was flashy and sparkling on those screenshots and we had one visual effect. We rogues had a hard time when they removed it... ;(
Even if those things can sound like a chore to retail players, I still defend they added A TON of flavor to the game, and made you connect to your character much more. It really made the world feel more realistic.
what he means is logic. Why would a fireball kill a fire elemental, poison affect machines, living non seamarine things drown (undead racial) or Ice freeze a frost elemental (*head scratching) . For sure its fantasy but keeping at least fundamental physics in check can add a lot flavour and fun to a game.
While sure,it was very nice for flavor,it totally killed game balance,you have to draw the line between flavor and game mechanics,for example,this “flavor” was the reason why fire mages were absolutely useless the first 2 raids,even tho they did high dmg
I don't think that everything has to be viable for everything. If you go that route you could also delete the classes and make a system like skyrim or lets call it the post-cata-syndrom. I think the old system with the niches like which pala skilled kings or improved might makes it more fun. For example one of the best reviews back in the day that got me into wow was that the game would feel different with every class and to be honest, it did.
"Hunters likely having the worst with ammo" *warlock kicks door down* "Excuse you? Did hunters have to farm mobs for hours to get enough ammo to summon an entire raid, only to farm more to give them cookies, then run out and have to farm more to summon their demons after every wipe?" No but seriously, soul shards were worse for that and didn't stack. I hope you have the super rare 20 slot soul pouch.
God that soul pouch changed my life. Farming soul shards was the worst thing possible, at least hunter quivers/ammo pouches had like 30 slots. And all you had to do was shell money out for them.
Also a must for a great DPS boost in wotlk... For sure the most time consuming and problematic class unique thing. Was so problematic for lvling as well, since those single shards filled up your bag along with all other things
Yeah I feel you it makes sense. Like you couldn't use poisons on some machine bosses in TBC. Yeah I guess it could be a pain but it created a feeling of tradeoff and somewhat realism. I miss this.
It was annoying, but as a fire mage, why would I expect fireballs to kill fire elementals? Game balance has to come first even when it makes for silly results like that.
Well, you couldn't use fireballs to kill fire elementals in vanilla. And black dragons. Yeah, there weren't a lot of fire mages in early vanilla raids.
How about when different levels of armor had different repair costs? Such as cloth had the cheapest bill while plate was the most expensive to repair. I think this change took place in late Wrath, like around the Cata pre-patch or the patch before or after it. I never see this get brought up in any of these kinds of videos.
Yeah, the bills were so expensive they were genuine consideration when choosing what class to play. I remember reading guides in TBC era that specifically listed heavy repair costs as one of the downsides of playing plate/mail class.
I remember reading in the game manual that plate with similar durability will be more expensive than cloth. But that didn't bother me. Divine intervention and bubble+hearth or bubble+jumb of a cliff to get out of combat saved my wallet :)
To those of you who think that we have nostalgia goggles on for liking this stuff, I think it was like a pandora's box to remove them. Before we learned about "convenience", most of us didn't think of these things as pure obstacles. I think it's an illusion to say that for instance flight in old-Azeroth "saves time." Before you had the ability to fly around everywhere, most of us saw the navigation of the world AS playing the game. So you're saving time from playing the game in order to...just play the game in another way. I agree that it wasn't all pretty. But I believe those old systems could have been improved while staying mostly intact. I love the idea that you could go out and farm some feathers or you could make gold in some way to then buy your feathers on the AH. They should have made collection more fun and engaging. Let players explore the world and find the best spots for gathering materials. Add more flight paths but don't allow flying - now your location actually has a weight and meaning to it. Add some compelling quests that eventually give you more teleportation necklaces that make travel easier. Let a culture form and emerge around all these systems.
I made my fortune in Gold by taking advantage of the crocodile daily in Tol Barad. Where people would be killing them constantly and I was running around skinning endless amounts for free top level skins. Then I’d go buy ALL the skins in the auction house and sell them for a pretty darn high price lol. There were definitely a couple other people that started trying to do the same thing lol. I bought the 50k mammoth and had my stash of gold and my bro was amazed at how I magically was rich a month later lol. I think I sent him 10k gold randomly and he was like wtf happened lol? What your rich now? What?
Lol Tol Barad was awesome. Go there to world pvp. Or even troll the horde by going in the daily area when they controlled it & antagonize the horde then shadow meld out of existence. Going in mission impossible quest of trying to farm the crocodile skins while they controlled the zone just for yuks lol
Do you remember when Blizz use to make game improvements to make the game feel like less of a chore, and to "save time"? Ah, those were the days - before the idea took hold to increase 'recurring revenue' and 'shareholder value' by making everything take LONGER to keep the addicts subbed and playing. So, let's bring back Classic WoW! Everything will take for-ever, and our numbers should soar!
Yeah that's nostalgia goggles talking, "back in my day we had to walk 20 miles to school in the snow, uphill both ways, and we liked it damn it!" You call it immersion; I call it tedium. Call it what you like and if you like that kind of thing, WoW Classic is obviously for you. Me, I didn't even start liking the game until Wrath and honestly think the game peaked with Pandaria. Feel free to disagree and say so; that is your right, but don't expect everyone to take your words as unarguable gospel truth that the game was inherently better back then.
I always thought it was weird that we were not able to use entangling Roots inside caves, yet we were able to summon a beam of moonlight even though we were in the cave
You forgot some mobs being immune to certain types of damage, like robots and elementals being immune to poison, ghosts immune to bleeds, fire elementals having reduced damage against fire spells, and so on..
14:03. To be fair, there are plaguelands and end-game dungeons like Strat and Scholo (at that time they are 10-men dungeons, which almost feel like mini-raids) for lvl 50-60 players, so I would say undead does play a big role in vanilla end game contents, plus making paladins' anti-undead abilities to shine... for a while at least.
Did the pally abilities work in pvp versus undead characters? I think back in the day Seduce didn't work on them or something, there was some weird CC interaction mechanic with undead characters.
As far as I remembered, Forsaken had always been classified as 'humanoid', not 'undead'. Forsaken has the racial ability 'Will of the Forsaken' that used to make them immune to charm for a few seconds in the old days, so you might just encountered some good timing undead players.
Kaylria What i have heard is that during Vanilla beta spells that could damage or CC undead, like Sackle Undead, used to work on Forsaken characters , but Blizzard removed this before the game went life for obvious reasons.
Krljavi Dzo Their activatable racial, Will of the Forsaken, did turn them into Undead for a short time though, similar to Wotlk Frost DK's Lichborne, which made Death Coil usable on yourself for the healing. Having it tied to a short duration fixed all the problems though.
Stalkholm Yeah I played a hunter and I don't remember finding the ammo, class quests, or pet system annoying at all. I loved hunting for rare pets that actually did more dps than normal mobs back then.
I still remember the good old hunter days where you could take control of your pet and run around the world as whatever you had. It was very fun in pvp, i do think it was useless but fun imo.
Polished as modern WoW is, it feels like the soul of the game has been ripped out over the years. Vanilla truly shines in RPG aspects, and the feeling of a big living world. I really can't wait for Classic.
Henry M. 100% I checked it out recently after a decade away... there’s pretty much just 3 classes now, dps, tank, and healer. Any differences are purely asthetic. Also, race restrictions on classes are almost non existent meaning the less popular races are now even less used.
@@Tom_Hagen_ there is nothing wrong with it... so i fail to see what is so bad about it... you know what was a BAD xpac... i can think of two of them.... CATA and WOD
@@mrgoob76 BFA is complete garbage lol, 1) Retarded lore that makes absolutely no sense 2)Extremely bland gameplay classes are simplified so much you barely can fill one action bar worth of skills. 3)Tons and Tons of bugs that makes the game feel as if playing in beta. 4)Extreme content draught. 5) A god awful system called azerite as if they hadn't learned from the Artifact power fiasco.
I play on a vanilla private sever and I can honestly say that these abilities make the game feel more full and fleshed out. It adds a good amount of depth to the world
Very cool vid; having been playing since Vanilla myself, here are some other things: -Paladins being Alliance-exclusive and Shamans being Horde-exclusive -Sentry Totem -Ghost Wolf/Travel Form only working outdoors -Having to do AQ20 to actually get higher ranks of certain skills edit: being able to equip ranged weapons on all classes in another slot (throwing weapons, wands, bows/guns/xbows) on TOP of having melee weapons, then later introducing these "relics" or whatever they were called that classes without ranged weapons (the hybrid classes) could use as stat sticks! There's also the ghostbuster quest item that people equipped in that slot as kind of a placeholder
Maybe you'll still be reading these, hopefully you are. Hiru, you're awesome dude. I know how much work can go into videos like these, and the fact that you have time to prune everything to such a high standard but also get videos out frequently is really inspiring to see. I wanted you to know that I, (and I'm sure many others) come to your channel specifically wanting to itch that niche-top 10 vibe. Thes one about top 10 undead characters, "vampires", etc. You clearly really do your research in order to bring out new and refreshing stuff, man! It's nice to see wow Top 10s other than "top10 specs in vanilla wow" or "top 10 lore weapons" or something. Anyway, thanks for another video! Can't wait to dive in. :)
I remember being called a genius during a Karazhan run when I suggested using turn undead during the Moroes fight in TBC. We didn't have enough cc for the adds and me being a paladin said, "Hey, I can fear undead so, how about I fear one of the adds." My guild loved me until the guild disbanded because of that.
Draenor holy pally exorcism was so good though, you could actually play holy as a dps instead of a healer and not do bad. But their was also that week or two where holy priests were accidentally the best ranged dps with Chakra stances.
Arcane torrent was never removed, but mana tap's removal doubled both as a quality of life improvement and as a lore-sensical move since the belves no longer needed to leech mana to sate their hunger.
A lot of this really helped with the immersion. It really made a lot of sense from a lore perspective too, like the priest abilities. I was a Night Elf Priest back then, and it'd make sense I had abilities based around Elune, versus a Dwarf, or otherwise - it's like they all worshipped their own entities. It was the thing I missed the most in Wotlk
As a hunter i really miss the old quiver days. It looked cool on your back, it added to the immersion. Yeah sure you had to sacrifice a bag slot for it, but i liked how you needed ammo and how you had different looking quivers when you used arrows. I loved that every class had to do quest for the new class weapons and special things. The game felt more rewarding and made the classes feel more their own thing. Now they can't even be arsed anymore to make different looking plate armors, Paladin and warrior armors all look the same, only difference is the color most of the time (Unless they adressed that now?). Wish they would make the classes more unique again and let you be creative in your class again, but in 2018 you can't let players be creative in their skills as that would confuse the poor mainstream gamer who doesn't want to learn it's class, no we can't have none gamers who don't give a fuck about investing some time into learning a game, feel like they are noobs, nope, we need to make them feel amazing and sacrifice depth to games cause of it. Yeah some things are rightfully removed, but they went so far ugh.
I miss quivers too! It added so much immersion and it made sense!! I really hope they bring them back sometimes so I don't have to mog the legion artifact all the time :/
This really bugs me. Like sure, the ammo system was a little clunky, but why did they remove quivers entirely (except on certain artifacts)? It's just weird seeing your character pull arrows out of the void. I mean they already had models, I don't see why they couldn't have kept them, at least as a toggle for those who want to see it.
its just as bizar as them suddenly after more then 10 years removing the toggle in the options to turn your cloaks/helmets on or off. No, now you have to go all the way to a transmog station to get it fixed or have the mount or whatever that i don't have. The quivers were awesome and all had different appearances. They could have made them like you wear a cloak, so as hunter you could chose between wearing a robe or quiver. Or just convert them to bags entirely so people can have them on their back still. There been so many things they could have done, that they just didn't, nope some idiots over at Blizzard forgot that MMORPG players want to make their characters look cool cause they look at it for hundreds of hours, but nope lets remove cool things cause we no longer think they serve a purpose and is confusing to people who can't be arsed to properly learn how to play games thus we can't have nice things anymore cause those fake gamers will get way to confused and no longer buy the games anymore.
Jorendo Maybe try out Dungeons & Dragons Online? It has quivers, a ton of customization options even inside a single class at level 1, lots of cool gameplay mechanics like certain enemies being weak or immune to certain damage types, etc.
go tell that shit to a lock that had to spend 2+ hours to summon a raid, creating healthstones, summoning demons and for some of the hard hitting spells...or to a rogue that must raise a bullshit "profession" to do decent dps (granted rogues were broken)
Everyone brings up Soul Stones, but tbh Locks were B R O K E N for every single type of content. Travelling was a HUGE thing back then, they just killed a bunch of mobs and denied that entire part of the game with a summon. Their pets could tank, DPS, CC, even eat buffs off their enemies which made them basically unkillable in the world. I know that now self healing is something every single class does, but back then healthstones were a big fucking deal. They were also the only caster to be able to regenerate mana with Life Tap, which if you played any caster back then you know that Mana was the biggest struggle of them all. So, sure, Soul Stones were a bit of chore that nobody else had to do, but god damn did it pay off BIG TIME. And besides, just because Soul Stones were a chore, doesn't mean any of the other things wasn't fun. Even picking out your ammo, or having to make due, or having to craft your own, buy it, etc. was fun.
@@98haunter i recently raided as a warlock up until zg on a private server... I can tell you summoning is a lot of fun as you had all the raid go outside and protect your ass against opponent faction while you're channeling the portal... this even makes people remember your name, and eventually dady tank and his priests band notice you...
As a rouge main, i really miss poison making. I have played a subtlety rogue since the first week of BC(when i started) and i really miss some of the things they have removed from the game. I have always mourned the loss of poison crafting. It was fun! It was unique! and it made you feel like a master rogue crafting poisons to fell your enemies.
Neat stuff! I really agree with #3 how it would be so much more interesting, in my opinion, to have more flavour to class/race interactions so people can have more options on how they could play/build a certain class. But similar flavour would be cool in general to see, not only in this specific way.
When I was a wee lad I had a warlock character. Upon reaching level 20 (I think it was) I was very excited to use a succubus, but could not, for the life of me, beat it into submission. I spammed searing pain and died to it to the point of rage--why did Blizzard make this so hard? As it turns out, the succubus would hit harder the more agro you had, and searing pain created a lot of agro. It was something to that effect. If it was not agro, maybe it was doing too little of damage. Either way, some of the class quests had really hard features that weren't really well known without the huge database websites and forums we have today. Another one when I was young was the druid water form. Took an entire day, along with the help of my brother's friend who had already done it.
Yeah searing pain generates alot of threat. but indeed I can definitely say that vanilla had a lot of class quests with little quirks like that. Like the famous Hunter quest we had to kite and kill 4 level 60 elite demons alone no pet and each one of them was weak to a certain Hunter shot
Correct me if I remember wrong, but didn't hunters have glyph for mend pet (?) in WotLK, that would give happiness every time it was used. So you didn't have to worry about feeding pet anymore
Plus, there was the Talent "bloodthirst" for cats and other dps pets giving your pet the chance to gain a bit of happines with every attack. Came around petlvl 30
I'm pretty sure that, at least in earlier parts of Vanilla, Warlocks couldn't use Drain Life or soul on anything machine-like, so golems and stuff as well.
Drain Soul is possible on machine targets in Classic, but they are immune to all spells that transfer health to the warlock, e.g. Drain Life, Siphon Life, Deathcoil
You should've mentioned TBC's alliance and blood elfs paladin abilities, alliance races had Seal of Vengeance which was better for tanking and Blood elfs had Seal of Blood which was amazing for dps. EDIT: Seal of Blood also dealed a lil'bit of dmg always when you hit with your melee attacks and 35% of the damage dealt when using a judgement
Well, going back even further Alliance and Horde had separate classes: Pallies and Shammies. It was a catch 22 for me as I was VERY opposed to this lore change but also kinda dug Paladins at the time.
This makes me miss old WoW. I loved having to collect reagents and get new skills by learning them. It made you feel like you were actually growing as a character, instead of just "everything works all the time and you know everything" :/
This was great. The realism was great, although a pain in the ass if you were not paying attention. Getting lost in the game, paying attention to those details would have been great.
Pretty much everything up to and including Panadaria was an improvement. In no particular order, things I hated dealing with as a hunter that eventually got removed: Ammo Minimum Range (including needing a viable melee weapon in PvP for when people danced in your face in the "dead zone". Question: if someone is trying to shoot you, do you think the smartest thing to do is run TOWARDS them? Well WoW devs did at a time.) Pet Happiness Mana Pet Taming Quests Class Trainers (not specific to hunters, but still) Having a "stat stick" slot that I had to fight with other agility users to justify needing to fill Spec specific rare pets before you could multi-spec and thus couldn't have unless you were beastmaster spec The changes they were going to make to hunters past Pandaria basically motivated me to quit the game. I mean I would have anyway because I just got burned out and bored of WoW in general, but nothing I've heard about hunters post-Pandaria ever tempted me to come back and try out the game again. But hey, great times.
@@troodon1096 I know the feeling never went past rat played on a cata server and oh my what did they do to us hunters. I any day of the week will take a mana Hunter over a focus Hunter simple as that
90% of the features on this video were absolute trash that are only fun to think about but it was actual cancer to run out of bullets in the middle of a dungeon, or having to level up your pet all day in low level zones, or having someone killed to get a doomguard, etc
Idk, I really liked that the game was somewhat more complex back in the days, like how you needed enough spell penetration on hunters to eunsure Mark of the Wild or Mage's _can't remember armor_ doesn't "resist" your Frost Trap in Arena and to do more damage with your elemental abilities, while also having to cap hit rating so you can't miss against players or for those who did PvE for bosses. Also since talent's allowed more "personal" customization, while overall every spec had it's key talents there were some which could've been changed to match your taste. Like how hunter's had the talent which gave them bonus damage against the type of enemies they currently tracked. Well atleast I do remember these being fun as I started playing just before SWP got released and I really enjoyed TBC and obviously the legendary Wotlk that came after. Now BFA, it's fun _(mainly because I haven't played for years)_ but we really don't have any of these "tips and tricks" like we used to, also I really miss the Reputation Quests, while some of them were the basic "collect this, kill that" there were some unique related to that specific faction, also all of them on the zone related to them. Now it's just the same world quests over and over again doesn't matter which zone you go to, honestly only the Tortollan minigames impressed me when it came to world quests rest got boring pretty fast but since it levels up your Artifact necklace you have to get REPUTATION else Magni won't upgrade the ilvl which is a huge loss when you compare someone who is "friendly" with one who is "exalted".
These characteristics added a much more intimate and connected experience to the game and your character. This stuff is such a core part of a "fantasy RPG" its a shame so much was removed.
I remember casting Mind Vision as priest, targeting unsuspecting Horde players. They would notice the debuff targeting them, then run around panicking due to being observed by a (possible higher level) enemy. Meanwhile I would stand inside a big bush and enjoy myself until a mob strayed too far and attacked me (often leading to a well deserved death for me).
I enjoyed playing a Paladin in Vanilla. I learned pretty quick though if you wanted any ranged abilities for them you needed to be an Engineer, because that profession offered thrown weapons and Shrink Rays among other fun things.
"paladins were mainly brought to raids because of their buffs" That and the fact they were some of the best single target, mana efficient healers with some of the best utility in the entire game. Once a paladin got some crit, the essentially started to have unlimited mana due to the talent in holy that refunded mana on healing crits. The main design problem with paladins wasn't that they didn't have damage abilities, it was that all their damage was tied to spell power instead of strength. The closest paladins came to being able to dps was by getting the full AQ40 set, which increased flat spell power and using Nightfall or a Naxx weapon.
True. Healing Paladins in (at least some) cloth armor were pretty common due to the caster stats being better for them than the stats from their own armor.
Still don't understand why they didn't give Paladins a proper plate spell set. I get that spell damage on plate would be rare to get randomly from blues and greens, but at least make a set! Damn Blizzard ....
srk.ares I'm just sad they didn't take the Paladin in the direction of the Captain in LOTRO. The Captain is an actual buff-class, to the point where many of his attacks can't be used unless he has designated a special "brother" with a buff, which is why he has a squire pet. It's a really cool and very unique way of playing, and would have fit perfectly into the Paladin class fantasy. Instead he just became a holy rogue ^.^
srk.ares Indeed, I do agree with the people to a point. It certainly isn't really a class mechanic to just stand there and keep everyone's buffs alive, but that doesn't mean you cannot design a class around buffing others. The only thing they NEED is a pet, maybe Blizz thought they already had enough pet classes with 2. (which is weird because the first hero class was a pet class ...) I was thinking of things like a Melee attack that either buffs you, or if you have cast a specific buff on an ally it buffs them based on their role. I guess they kind of did this eventually with "beacon of light", which is why I love to play holy paladin.
In 2006 when I started my first character, a rogue, I had to farm Fadeleafs to craft Vanish Powder to use Vanish ability, farm Blindweed to craft Blinding Powder to use Blind, do quests and farm materials to make poisons... All while waiting to get to level 40 so I could get my first 60% mount. These days everything feels so automated.
At the end of the day a lot of these were huge pains in the ass to deal with from a balance and fairness perspective, but it was all these little things that made everything feel unique and special, which is a big part of why vanilla is remember so well despite being punishingly difficult in many aspects.
I always felt that from a lore perspective your characters classes just got more powerful as they better learned to use their abailities over time, like the warlock pet summons. Sure it was difficult for them in early WoW, but as they had more and more practice with it, it became easier for them to summon demons and thus could teach new warlocks without having them go gather a bunch of stuff for a ritual.The whole Black Harvest questchain and backstory in Pandaria was centered around how all classes are looking for new ways to improve themselves, like Mages looking into time magic to learn Time Warp.
Paladin's Divine Intervention. That ability was so cool and so fitting with the paladin theme as this holy protector, sacrificing themselves to protect someone for what was honestly a long time. 3 minutes, to bathe your target in light to make anything from the outside world unable to harm them. To even affect them. It couldn't be dispelled or stolen, only the target protected could choose to remove your ward from them.
I think the whole leveling thing should be mentioned aswell. The whole point of leveling is to grow up together with your char, to learn and master. Today, you can max a char in around 3 days or less, which ended up in people not knowing how to play their class efficiently, not having a connection to their char, which now hangs out in Orgrimmar or Stormwind with shiniest equip, but no idea how they got it. If you saw a max level char before, you could be pretty damn sure the person behind it could tell you a fuckton of interesting things about it.
While I agree up to a point, soul shards not stacking and the ridiculous amounts of arrows hunters needed to be viable are not only very annoying, they're also very silly.
You forgot detect and disarm traps for rogues, we had to be on the front on Ice Crown Citadel to disarm the traps on the first floor, also it was great to disarm the hunter traps in pvp.
“Trolls & their bows.” I’m pretty sure I never saw trolls use bows in WC II or WC III. Throwing axes and throwing spears are the true troll weapon of choice.
@@tanyanikolaevagizdova6571 It ran counter to troll lore. It's the decision blizzard made when dealing with the ranged weapon class in the game - no thrown weapons except for rogues (and even then I hear they were complete shit and fucking inconvenient), and hunters only had bows, guns or crossbows.
I absolutely loved ritual of doom, I really miss it, plus the warlock demon quests in general, they created more of an emotional bond with your demon, I can still list all of their individual names off the top of my head, and have good memories of each of them. It gave a lot more meaning to minions.
I remember "Ritual of Doom" quite fondly. When I was a lowbie questing in Elwynn Forest, someone summoned a doomguard in Goldshire and it started killing everybody, lol.
It is complicated to maintain a good balance between flavor and actual gameplay balance. While all of this made the game feel more organic, I can't really blame Blizz for preferring to keep things simple. It would be a real shame if out of 5 raids within an expansion my character was only kind of useful in 2 because of the type of mobs or my class being a niche. WoW is a gigantic game with a huge number of classes, enemy types, etc. It would be great to see an MMO, maybe a tad smaller in scope, try to tackle this issue in a more organic way.
Not sure if it was just the innocent noob in me but I really loved the train pet options. As well as the fact that you had to gather abilities by capturing pets with them
Don't forget Kadger's unlocking spell, which was removed before WoW even went live. It let mages open lock boxes with a spell, but apparently rogue's felt slighted at the risk of lousing out on randoms running to them to trade a locked box into their face uninvited.
Hiru you forgot to add metamorph for warlocks(including all their cool spells they had like demonic leap, apotheosis making them literal tanks, immolation aura, chaos wave, shadow claw, charge.) , demonic pact, soulshards (in their old form). Also no mention of Infernal stone to summon infernal, or how the ritual of doom could kill the warlock whocast it? Come on man #pewdiepieisbetter
As a demolock the gameplay is about strengthening your pets, the meta form was paradoxically not the best idea to promote this style of gameplay. That's why they removed it.
One thing that I think was really cool RP for death Knights was the different types of runes you could use for different abilities. It made it seem like the runes were much more tied to their source of power rather than being some random resource
10:28 If I recall correctly, Humans didn't have hunters until much later (Cataclysm), when the pet acquisition requirements you talk about were removed.
Now people have vanilla again, but it's not about the fun of levelling, it's not about lugging arrows or soulshards around, it's about stacking world buffs in time for raid time to stetamroll through content.
You could almost have the number 1 just be Paladin in general. We've lost so many abilities over the years, it's not even the same class. Seals, Auras, exorcism, holy wrath, turn undead, and even blessing of might have been gutted. I miss how Paladin used to feel as a class. It was overflowing with class fantasy and as much as I enjoy the current version, I really wish I could go back. I want to equip my Librams, stock up on some reagents for Greater Blessings and feel like a Holy Warrior again.
It’s really interesting seeing all this stuff I remember no longer being in the game. I stopped playing right before Cataclysm and haven’t returned since, so it’s been a minute.
Entangling roots was so NOT useless. It was incredible in PvP vs hunters. There was a time where hunters couldn't shoot someone that's too close, so the common druid tactic was to use entangling roots on a hunter and move to the "sweet spot" where the druid is too close to be shot but too far for melee.
I feel it's quite unfair that you considered the usefullness of the undead only abilities to only apply to Naxramas when two endgame zones where filled with undeads and Scholomance and Stratholme where immensely popular 10 man raids filled with undeads that everyone had to grind at some point.
Undeads would be broken beyond belief their paltry weakness against undeads was nothing compared to being permanently imune to fear,charm,sleep,sap and polymorph they were changed because they would be night unstoppable in pvp if not.
Doreen Green they can breathe under water indefinitly. Touch of the Grave: Dealing damage has a chance to trigger some shadow damage to your target and heal the caster for damage dealt. Also allows breathing under water without any timer. (just checked ...)
Yeah, that Defensive Stance quest; it was still around in some form when the LFD tool was introduced. Happened a couple of times, got grouped up with some warrior who hadn't done his def stance quest chain...
Thanks again my Friend. Great vid! I think some of the nerfs you mentioned in this vid ( and many others you've blessed us with) were the ones that really disappointed me the most as WoW progressed, since the nerfs did remove a lot of the fantasy traits associated with these classes that had significant Lore value to them (i.e the Pally traits and Warlock traits). Since a lot of them were also removed simply for "convenience", it became evident how much WoW got "dumbed down" to attract a more wide audience that had little (if any) previous experience with fantasy RP type games and it became far more just a simple "number crunch" exercise as you progressed. I suspect this is also one of the reasons that "WoW Classic" became so popular with the Old Guard players, whom remembered when it wasn't a race to best gear end game but more a fun and thrilling experience to level up using traits and abilities that made you unique and therefore more relevant to your interests. Regardless of the convenience factors the newer Retail version provides, many of us actually enjoyed the uniqueness of our developed 'toons and were quite sad to see them either eliminated or stupefied. Now, it's no more than a math quizz as you level and "how you play" means far less than "what you play". I left Retail at the end of WotLK simply because outside the main character lore story aspects, I found it incredibly boring and silly. But...I came back for Classic. It's not quite as good as Vanilla was but pretty dang close. ;)
Talked about abilities targeting undead specifically, but didn’t mention how the Forsaken were all considered Undead as well, so things like Exorcism and Turn Undead worked on those players too.
AKA remove all things that make classes especial, so every class is basically the same. And god forbid that you have to use your brain, recognize your foe's weaknesses and use your skills accordingly. That would be too much of a hassle, instead lets just mash buttons until the mob dies. This is what happens when the development team changes from RPG fans to "Call of Duty audience"-seeking devs.
I think these were what made vanilla so great, just anything that made WoW an actual RPG. It had stuff you'd expect something like D&D to have, like class specific profession recipes (think Swift Thistle Tea), material components for spells (light feather for slow fall), and spell/ability restrictions (machines can't be polymorphed or bleed, humanoids can be pickpocketed, etc.).
Druids in vanilla couldn’t talk to NPCs in shapeshift forms.
Same with Shamans in ghost wolf
I thought that was a thing. But I couldnt remember.
Very immersive. Kind of broke again when you try to take a gryphon and read "you can't take a taxi while shape shifted".
Couldn't use potions in forms either, which made popping a quick heal midfight impossible.
lol I just pictured it.
Druid in bear form walks up to a flight master:
"RAWWWWR!"
"Ehm.... what?"
"RRRAAAAR!"
"Ahhh get away from me!"
Druid shapeshifts into Night Elf form:
"Sorry, I'd like to fly to Astranaar please."
I miss eyes of the beast, the ability that let you control your hunter pet, like a priest uses mind control.
actually even better because you got to use the pets abilities too. MC just let's you run around iirc.
@@Noisyblizzard no, mcing an NPC lets you use their abilitys
OOhhh dude I forgot about that
That blew my mind back then
ah ok, seldom playing priest, never mc'd a npc 😅
I'd go tame a starting zone pet before they would level up to your level, eyes of the beast in a patrol pattern and kill levelers with my pet when they attacked it.
The rogues detect trap! How could you forget !! The swirly animation
It still exists ingame, you just have to buy a spellbook in Hillsbrad
Yeah it was reintroduced at some point, 1-3 expansions ago
Oh yeah. Our only ability usable for first kill celebrations and the like. Everyone was flashy and sparkling on those screenshots and we had one visual effect. We rogues had a hard time when they removed it... ;(
Really? Old Hillsbrad has it?
The ability still exists but not the animation right ? Haven’t played since wrath so idk
Even if those things can sound like a chore to retail players, I still defend they added A TON of flavor to the game, and made you connect to your character much more. It really made the world feel more realistic.
Azeroth is not realistic though. In any way.
what he means is logic. Why would a fireball kill a fire elemental, poison affect machines, living non seamarine things drown (undead racial) or Ice freeze a frost elemental (*head scratching) . For sure its fantasy but keeping at least fundamental physics in check can add a lot flavour and fun to a game.
While sure,it was very nice for flavor,it totally killed game balance,you have to draw the line between flavor and game mechanics,for example,this “flavor” was the reason why fire mages were absolutely useless the first 2 raids,even tho they did high dmg
I don't think that everything has to be viable for everything. If you go that route you could also delete the classes and make a system like skyrim or lets call it the post-cata-syndrom.
I think the old system with the niches like which pala skilled kings or improved might makes it more fun.
For example one of the best reviews back in the day that got me into wow was that the game would feel different with every class and to be honest, it did.
it's okay for it to be "less viable" or "not viable",but for it to be,COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY USELESS,is NOT ok.
"Hunters likely having the worst with ammo"
*warlock kicks door down*
"Excuse you? Did hunters have to farm mobs for hours to get enough ammo to summon an entire raid, only to farm more to give them cookies, then run out and have to farm more to summon their demons after every wipe?"
No but seriously, soul shards were worse for that and didn't stack. I hope you have the super rare 20 slot soul pouch.
God that soul pouch changed my life. Farming soul shards was the worst thing possible, at least hunter quivers/ammo pouches had like 30 slots. And all you had to do was shell money out for them.
Also a must for a great DPS boost in wotlk... For sure the most time consuming and problematic class unique thing. Was so problematic for lvling as well, since those single shards filled up your bag along with all other things
Seriously. Still can't understand why the fuck didn't they make the Shards stack.
BUT did warlocks have to spend lots n lots of gold just to attack?
Time is money so yes :D
Remember when you used to get dismounted as soon as your mount was in ankledeep water? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Plus remounting taking like what? 5seconds? I member
Yeah I feel you it makes sense. Like you couldn't use poisons on some machine bosses in TBC.
Yeah I guess it could be a pain but it created a feeling of tradeoff and somewhat realism. I miss this.
It was annoying, but as a fire mage, why would I expect fireballs to kill fire elementals? Game balance has to come first even when it makes for silly results like that.
Well, you couldn't use fireballs to kill fire elementals in vanilla. And black dragons.
Yeah, there weren't a lot of fire mages in early vanilla raids.
I remember when they introduced that frostfire spell I thought "cool, dmg without respecting in both fire and ice elementals!"
especially because of MC good luck going fire in there lmao
Rogues would use sharpening stones instead of poisons on mechanical bosses, think it added +3 weapon dmg or something to that effect.
How about when different levels of armor had different repair costs? Such as cloth had the cheapest bill while plate was the most expensive to repair. I think this change took place in late Wrath, like around the Cata pre-patch or the patch before or after it. I never see this get brought up in any of these kinds of videos.
Yeah, the bills were so expensive they were genuine consideration when choosing what class to play. I remember reading guides in TBC era that specifically listed heavy repair costs as one of the downsides of playing plate/mail class.
Nicholas Linefeld if all your gear was red, you’d be lookin st a hefty repair bill. Especially in BC, Vanilla days
I remember reading in the game manual that plate with similar durability will be more expensive than cloth. But that didn't bother me. Divine intervention and bubble+hearth or bubble+jumb of a cliff to get out of combat saved my wallet :)
I guess he didn't play clothy .. so he didn't miss this "feature" xD paying your mt is not seldomly found in classic
To those of you who think that we have nostalgia goggles on for liking this stuff, I think it was like a pandora's box to remove them. Before we learned about "convenience", most of us didn't think of these things as pure obstacles. I think it's an illusion to say that for instance flight in old-Azeroth "saves time." Before you had the ability to fly around everywhere, most of us saw the navigation of the world AS playing the game. So you're saving time from playing the game in order to...just play the game in another way.
I agree that it wasn't all pretty. But I believe those old systems could have been improved while staying mostly intact. I love the idea that you could go out and farm some feathers or you could make gold in some way to then buy your feathers on the AH. They should have made collection more fun and engaging. Let players explore the world and find the best spots for gathering materials. Add more flight paths but don't allow flying - now your location actually has a weight and meaning to it. Add some compelling quests that eventually give you more teleportation necklaces that make travel easier. Let a culture form and emerge around all these systems.
I made my fortune in Gold by taking advantage of the crocodile daily in Tol Barad. Where people would be killing them constantly and I was running around skinning endless amounts for free top level skins. Then I’d go buy ALL the skins in the auction house and sell them for a pretty darn high price lol. There were definitely a couple other people that started trying to do the same thing lol. I bought the 50k mammoth and had my stash of gold and my bro was amazed at how I magically was rich a month later lol. I think I sent him 10k gold randomly and he was like wtf happened lol? What your rich now? What?
Lol Tol Barad was awesome. Go there to world pvp. Or even troll the horde by going in the daily area when they controlled it & antagonize the horde then shadow meld out of existence. Going in mission impossible quest of trying to farm the crocodile skins while they controlled the zone just for yuks lol
Do you remember when Blizz use to make game improvements to make the game feel like less of a chore, and to "save time"? Ah, those were the days - before the idea took hold to increase 'recurring revenue' and 'shareholder value' by making everything take LONGER to keep the addicts subbed and playing. So, let's bring back Classic WoW! Everything will take for-ever, and our numbers should soar!
Travel time was probably the biggest reason I never leveled an alt. Walking up and down the barrens or stranglethorn without a mount was awful.
Yeah that's nostalgia goggles talking, "back in my day we had to walk 20 miles to school in the snow, uphill both ways, and we liked it damn it!" You call it immersion; I call it tedium. Call it what you like and if you like that kind of thing, WoW Classic is obviously for you. Me, I didn't even start liking the game until Wrath and honestly think the game peaked with Pandaria. Feel free to disagree and say so; that is your right, but don't expect everyone to take your words as unarguable gospel truth that the game was inherently better back then.
I always thought it was weird that we were not able to use entangling Roots inside caves, yet we were able to summon a beam of moonlight even though we were in the cave
Orcs actually had a racial bonus for 3 weapons: Two-handed Axes, One-handed Axes and Fist Weapons!
Oh yeah, I forgot the fist racial. Also, didn't dwarves also had a mace specialization?
I was gonna say this to but someone beat me to it. Most my toons are orcs and I've played for a long ass time now lol.
@Bryan Morgan I'd slap you with Eskhandar's paws.
@@srkares nah humans had maces dwarfs had guns
Did any race have 3 hand weapon specialization?
You forgot some mobs being immune to certain types of damage, like robots and elementals being immune to poison, ghosts immune to bleeds, fire elementals having reduced damage against fire spells, and so on..
Man, that would have been a really good one to include
I think if they still have that now the game will have more flavor
Ah yeah the golden days of mage where you couldn’t play fire mage unless you wanted to respec every week for molten core.
yeah but at least you got to burn everything else :D
@@zearcjustice7837 and then in the end you will never be able to do a certain boss, because your spec or even specc doesn't do shit with that boss.
14:03. To be fair, there are plaguelands and end-game dungeons like Strat and Scholo (at that time they are 10-men dungeons, which almost feel like mini-raids) for lvl 50-60 players, so I would say undead does play a big role in vanilla end game contents, plus making paladins' anti-undead abilities to shine... for a while at least.
Did the pally abilities work in pvp versus undead characters? I think back in the day Seduce didn't work on them or something, there was some weird CC interaction mechanic with undead characters.
As far as I remembered, Forsaken had always been classified as 'humanoid', not 'undead'. Forsaken has the racial ability 'Will of the Forsaken' that used to make them immune to charm for a few seconds in the old days, so you might just encountered some good timing undead players.
Kaylria What i have heard is that during Vanilla beta spells that could damage or CC undead, like Sackle Undead, used to work on Forsaken characters , but Blizzard removed this before the game went life for obvious reasons.
@@mangaranwow2543 yeah I heard that too. I also heard they could breathe underwater cause they were well... Undead.
Krljavi Dzo Their activatable racial, Will of the Forsaken, did turn them into Undead for a short time though, similar to Wotlk Frost DK's Lichborne, which made Death Coil usable on yourself for the healing. Having it tied to a short duration fixed all the problems though.
Even though Call of water fuels my nightmares up to these days, I miss class quest chains
Metamorphosis for Demo Warlocks. My fav ability :(
I actually didn't realize that the weapon specialization thing was removed. Derp.
A lot of this /sounds like/ a pain in the ass, almost all of it was actually a lot of fun.
Stalkholm Yeah I played a hunter and I don't remember finding the ammo, class quests, or pet system annoying at all. I loved hunting for rare pets that actually did more dps than normal mobs back then.
Except the aquatic travel form quest, that quest can go to hell.
And the water totem quest. God, for some reason Blizz seemed to hate water ^^
I still remember the good old hunter days where you could take control of your pet and run around the world as whatever you had. It was very fun in pvp, i do think it was useless but fun imo.
I still miss the warlock demon quests and soul shards
Polished as modern WoW is, it feels like the soul of the game has been ripped out over the years. Vanilla truly shines in RPG aspects, and the feeling of a big living world. I really can't wait for Classic.
Henry M. 100% I checked it out recently after a decade away... there’s pretty much just 3 classes now, dps, tank, and healer. Any differences are purely asthetic. Also, race restrictions on classes are almost non existent meaning the less popular races are now even less used.
google Light's Hope and come play vanilla
Did you just call BfA polished?
@@Tom_Hagen_ there is nothing wrong with it... so i fail to see what is so bad about it... you know what was a BAD xpac... i can think of two of them.... CATA and WOD
@@mrgoob76 BFA is complete garbage lol, 1) Retarded lore that makes absolutely no sense 2)Extremely bland gameplay classes are simplified so much you barely can fill one action bar worth of skills.
3)Tons and Tons of bugs that makes the game feel as if playing in beta.
4)Extreme content draught.
5) A god awful system called azerite as if they hadn't learned from the Artifact power fiasco.
Hunters Eyes of the Beast.
Fun times were had :(
I miss that ability. But I don't miss ammo, minimum range, or pet happiness, so on balance I still say we're better off.
Paladin and Warlock epic mount quests
I play on a vanilla private sever and I can honestly say that these abilities make the game feel more full and fleshed out. It adds a good amount of depth to the world
For like 1% of the player base. Not many people enjoy farming reagents to use abilities.
Very cool vid; having been playing since Vanilla myself, here are some other things:
-Paladins being Alliance-exclusive and Shamans being Horde-exclusive
-Sentry Totem
-Ghost Wolf/Travel Form only working outdoors
-Having to do AQ20 to actually get higher ranks of certain skills
edit: being able to equip ranged weapons on all classes in another slot (throwing weapons, wands, bows/guns/xbows) on TOP of having melee weapons, then later introducing these "relics" or whatever they were called that classes without ranged weapons (the hybrid classes) could use as stat sticks! There's also the ghostbuster quest item that people equipped in that slot as kind of a placeholder
Blackrock dude, don't forget about blackrock.
travel form working outdoors was mentioned in root segment
travel form works indoors? I always get kicked out of travel form
Ugh farming and paying shit tons of gold for skill books. I remember shelling out so much gold for Prayer of Fortitude
Having to do a quest in DM to get max level water on mage
Maybe you'll still be reading these, hopefully you are.
Hiru, you're awesome dude. I know how much work can go into videos like these, and the fact that you have time to prune everything to such a high standard but also get videos out frequently is really inspiring to see. I wanted you to know that I, (and I'm sure many others) come to your channel specifically wanting to itch that niche-top 10 vibe. Thes one about top 10 undead characters, "vampires", etc. You clearly really do your research in order to bring out new and refreshing stuff, man! It's nice to see wow Top 10s other than "top10 specs in vanilla wow" or "top 10 lore weapons" or something.
Anyway, thanks for another video! Can't wait to dive in. :)
I remember being called a genius during a Karazhan run when I suggested using turn undead during the Moroes fight in TBC. We didn't have enough cc for the adds and me being a paladin said, "Hey, I can fear undead so, how about I fear one of the adds." My guild loved me until the guild disbanded because of that.
the guild disbanded because you started CCing undead?
no no, I believe it disbanded because they loved only him
I hope they started a cult afterwards in reverence of his wisdom and might
I might wanna join that...
RIP Exorcism... Paladins will miss you forever...
Yep, having a holy dmg ability was to op so we got Blade of Justice instead, cause of reasons.
Exorcism procs felt the best :(
Draenor holy pally exorcism was so good though, you could actually play holy as a dps instead of a healer and not do bad.
But their was also that week or two where holy priests were accidentally the best ranged dps with Chakra stances.
WTB Holy DPS spec so we can play as ranged >.>
RIP pally auras
Blood elf's mana tap and arcane torrent in early TBC...
Arcane torrent was never removed, but mana tap's removal doubled both as a quality of life improvement and as a lore-sensical move since the belves no longer needed to leech mana to sate their hunger.
A lot of this really helped with the immersion. It really made a lot of sense from a lore perspective too, like the priest abilities. I was a Night Elf Priest back then, and it'd make sense I had abilities based around Elune, versus a Dwarf, or otherwise - it's like they all worshipped their own entities. It was the thing I missed the most in Wotlk
As a hunter i really miss the old quiver days. It looked cool on your back, it added to the immersion. Yeah sure you had to sacrifice a bag slot for it, but i liked how you needed ammo and how you had different looking quivers when you used arrows.
I loved that every class had to do quest for the new class weapons and special things. The game felt more rewarding and made the classes feel more their own thing.
Now they can't even be arsed anymore to make different looking plate armors, Paladin and warrior armors all look the same, only difference is the color most of the time (Unless they adressed that now?). Wish they would make the classes more unique again and let you be creative in your class again, but in 2018 you can't let players be creative in their skills as that would confuse the poor mainstream gamer who doesn't want to learn it's class, no we can't have none gamers who don't give a fuck about investing some time into learning a game, feel like they are noobs, nope, we need to make them feel amazing and sacrifice depth to games cause of it. Yeah some things are rightfully removed, but they went so far ugh.
I miss quivers too! It added so much immersion and it made sense!! I really hope they bring them back sometimes so I don't have to mog the legion artifact all the time :/
Still have about 800 blackflight arrows sitting in my bank, don't have the heart to get rid of them
This really bugs me. Like sure, the ammo system was a little clunky, but why did they remove quivers entirely (except on certain artifacts)? It's just weird seeing your character pull arrows out of the void. I mean they already had models, I don't see why they couldn't have kept them, at least as a toggle for those who want to see it.
its just as bizar as them suddenly after more then 10 years removing the toggle in the options to turn your cloaks/helmets on or off. No, now you have to go all the way to a transmog station to get it fixed or have the mount or whatever that i don't have. The quivers were awesome and all had different appearances. They could have made them like you wear a cloak, so as hunter you could chose between wearing a robe or quiver. Or just convert them to bags entirely so people can have them on their back still. There been so many things they could have done, that they just didn't, nope some idiots over at Blizzard forgot that MMORPG players want to make their characters look cool cause they look at it for hundreds of hours, but nope lets remove cool things cause we no longer think they serve a purpose and is confusing to people who can't be arsed to properly learn how to play games thus we can't have nice things anymore cause those fake gamers will get way to confused and no longer buy the games anymore.
Jorendo Maybe try out Dungeons & Dragons Online? It has quivers, a ton of customization options even inside a single class at level 1, lots of cool gameplay mechanics like certain enemies being weak or immune to certain damage types, etc.
TL;DR "Eventually fun was removed from the game"
go tell that shit to a lock that had to spend 2+ hours to summon a raid, creating healthstones, summoning demons and for some of the hard hitting spells...or to a rogue that must raise a bullshit "profession" to do decent dps (granted rogues were broken)
Everyone brings up Soul Stones, but tbh Locks were B R O K E N for every single type of content.
Travelling was a HUGE thing back then, they just killed a bunch of mobs and denied that entire part of the game with a summon.
Their pets could tank, DPS, CC, even eat buffs off their enemies which made them basically unkillable in the world.
I know that now self healing is something every single class does, but back then healthstones were a big fucking deal.
They were also the only caster to be able to regenerate mana with Life Tap, which if you played any caster back then you know that Mana was the biggest struggle of them all.
So, sure, Soul Stones were a bit of chore that nobody else had to do, but god damn did it pay off BIG TIME.
And besides, just because Soul Stones were a chore, doesn't mean any of the other things wasn't fun. Even picking out your ammo, or having to make due, or having to craft your own, buy it, etc. was fun.
@@98haunter i recently raided as a warlock up until zg on a private server... I can tell you summoning is a lot of fun as you had all the raid go outside and protect your ass against opponent faction while you're channeling the portal... this even makes people remember your name, and eventually dady tank and his priests band notice you...
If u have to summon evryone in your raid, switch guild. Srsly..... Healthstone was The nr 1 reason to farm shards.
@@zaktrytodive7582 private server ain't vanilla lol
As a rouge main, i really miss poison making. I have played a subtlety rogue since the first week of BC(when i started) and i really miss some of the things they have removed from the game. I have always mourned the loss of poison crafting. It was fun! It was unique! and it made you feel like a master rogue crafting poisons to fell your enemies.
Go play classic,ez
No shit, if they ever finish it
Vivi Serket subtety rouge was super fun to play.
Hard agree. It actually felt meaningful
You’re a rogue main that can’t spell rogue...
Neat stuff! I really agree with #3 how it would be so much more interesting, in my opinion, to have more flavour to class/race interactions so people can have more options on how they could play/build a certain class. But similar flavour would be cool in general to see, not only in this specific way.
When I was a wee lad I had a warlock character. Upon reaching level 20 (I think it was) I was very excited to use a succubus, but could not, for the life of me, beat it into submission.
I spammed searing pain and died to it to the point of rage--why did Blizzard make this so hard?
As it turns out, the succubus would hit harder the more agro you had, and searing pain created a lot of agro. It was something to that effect. If it was not agro, maybe it was doing too little of damage.
Either way, some of the class quests had really hard features that weren't really well known without the huge database websites and forums we have today.
Another one when I was young was the druid water form. Took an entire day, along with the help of my brother's friend who had already done it.
yea searing pain was basically "okay the warlock needs to tank this encounter, spam searing pain"
Why in the twisting nether would you use searing pain ?
Yeah searing pain generates alot of threat. but indeed I can definitely say that vanilla had a lot of class quests with little quirks like that. Like the famous Hunter quest we had to kite and kill 4 level 60 elite demons alone no pet and each one of them was weak to a certain Hunter shot
Correct me if I remember wrong, but didn't hunters have glyph for mend pet (?) in WotLK, that would give happiness every time it was used. So you didn't have to worry about feeding pet anymore
They did, then again glyphs as a mechanic didn't even exist until WotLK
Plus, there was the Talent "bloodthirst" for cats and other dps pets giving your pet the chance to gain a bit of happines with every attack. Came around petlvl 30
I'm pretty sure that, at least in earlier parts of Vanilla, Warlocks couldn't use Drain Life or soul on anything machine-like, so golems and stuff as well.
Can confirm haha
Drain Soul is possible on machine targets in Classic, but they are immune to all spells that transfer health to the warlock, e.g. Drain Life, Siphon Life, Deathcoil
You should've mentioned TBC's alliance and blood elfs paladin abilities, alliance races had Seal of Vengeance which was better for tanking and Blood elfs had Seal of Blood which was amazing for dps.
EDIT: Seal of Blood also dealed a lil'bit of dmg always when you hit with your melee attacks and 35% of the damage dealt when using a judgement
Well, going back even further Alliance and Horde had separate classes: Pallies and Shammies.
It was a catch 22 for me as I was VERY opposed to this lore change but also kinda dug Paladins at the time.
This makes me miss old WoW.
I loved having to collect reagents and get new skills by learning them.
It made you feel like you were actually growing as a character, instead of just "everything works all the time and you know everything" :/
I wish the hunter pet happiness thing was still in game
This was great. The realism was great, although a pain in the ass if you were not paying attention. Getting lost in the game, paying attention to those details would have been great.
You could do an entire video just on how hunters have changed since vanilla
Pretty much everything up to and including Panadaria was an improvement. In no particular order, things I hated dealing with as a hunter that eventually got removed:
Ammo
Minimum Range (including needing a viable melee weapon in PvP for when people danced in your face in the "dead zone". Question: if someone is trying to shoot you, do you think the smartest thing to do is run TOWARDS them? Well WoW devs did at a time.)
Pet Happiness
Mana
Pet Taming Quests
Class Trainers (not specific to hunters, but still)
Having a "stat stick" slot that I had to fight with other agility users to justify needing to fill
Spec specific rare pets before you could multi-spec and thus couldn't have unless you were beastmaster spec
The changes they were going to make to hunters past Pandaria basically motivated me to quit the game. I mean I would have anyway because I just got burned out and bored of WoW in general, but nothing I've heard about hunters post-Pandaria ever tempted me to come back and try out the game again. But hey, great times.
@@troodon1096 I know the feeling never went past rat played on a cata server and oh my what did they do to us hunters. I any day of the week will take a mana Hunter over a focus Hunter simple as that
In short; Blizzard removed, over time, every once of flavor
I miss the world building. WoW now feels like a generic action RPG.
But it's not an action rpg
izuuubito It's certainly not an MMO anymore that's for sure.
Cryme a river. If you need stuff like this to enjoy a game you have shit taste
@@grog159
Nah fam you play on a dead server
90% of the features on this video were absolute trash that are only fun to think about but it was actual cancer to run out of bullets in the middle of a dungeon, or having to level up your pet all day in low level zones, or having someone killed to get a doomguard, etc
Don't forget Warlock's Soul Shard's XD
Plus Hunters and Warlocks had special bags they could get that held only ammo/shards.
one of my favorite moments from TBC: that moment where a demo specced lock used metamorph against a pally and the pally goes "YOU DONE EFFED UP NOW!"
I still remember how my heart dropped when the pre-wrath patch hit and my poison crafting was gone.
Idk, I really liked that the game was somewhat more complex back in the days, like how you needed enough spell penetration on hunters to eunsure Mark of the Wild or Mage's _can't remember armor_ doesn't "resist" your Frost Trap in Arena and to do more damage with your elemental abilities, while also having to cap hit rating so you can't miss against players or for those who did PvE for bosses.
Also since talent's allowed more "personal" customization, while overall every spec had it's key talents there were some which could've been changed to match your taste.
Like how hunter's had the talent which gave them bonus damage against the type of enemies they currently tracked.
Well atleast I do remember these being fun as I started playing just before SWP got released and I really enjoyed TBC and obviously the legendary Wotlk that came after.
Now BFA, it's fun _(mainly because I haven't played for years)_ but we really don't have any of these "tips and tricks" like we used to, also I really miss the Reputation Quests, while some of them were the basic "collect this, kill that" there were some unique related to that specific faction, also all of them on the zone related to them.
Now it's just the same world quests over and over again doesn't matter which zone you go to, honestly only the Tortollan minigames impressed me when it came to world quests rest got boring pretty fast but since it levels up your Artifact necklace you have to get REPUTATION else Magni won't upgrade the ilvl which is a huge loss when you compare someone who is "friendly" with one who is "exalted".
DK presences were an iconic thing
These characteristics added a much more intimate and connected experience to the game and your character. This stuff is such a core part of a "fantasy RPG" its a shame so much was removed.
I remember casting Mind Vision as priest, targeting unsuspecting Horde players.
They would notice the debuff targeting them, then run around panicking due to being observed by a (possible higher level) enemy. Meanwhile I would stand inside a big bush and enjoy myself until a mob strayed too far and attacked me (often leading to a well deserved death for me).
I enjoyed playing a Paladin in Vanilla. I learned pretty quick though if you wanted any ranged abilities for them you needed to be an Engineer, because that profession offered thrown weapons and Shrink Rays among other fun things.
Engineering really brought life to a character back then.
"paladins were mainly brought to raids because of their buffs"
That and the fact they were some of the best single target, mana efficient healers with some of the best utility in the entire game. Once a paladin got some crit, the essentially started to have unlimited mana due to the talent in holy that refunded mana on healing crits.
The main design problem with paladins wasn't that they didn't have damage abilities, it was that all their damage was tied to spell power instead of strength. The closest paladins came to being able to dps was by getting the full AQ40 set, which increased flat spell power and using Nightfall or a Naxx weapon.
True. Healing Paladins in (at least some) cloth armor were pretty common due to the caster stats being better for them than the stats from their own armor.
Yay Illumination! Sadly they took that talent away around Cata time :(
Still don't understand why they didn't give Paladins a proper plate spell set.
I get that spell damage on plate would be rare to get randomly from blues and greens, but at least make a set! Damn Blizzard ....
srk.ares I'm just sad they didn't take the Paladin in the direction of the Captain in LOTRO.
The Captain is an actual buff-class, to the point where many of his attacks can't be used unless he has designated a special "brother" with a buff, which is why he has a squire pet.
It's a really cool and very unique way of playing, and would have fit perfectly into the Paladin class fantasy.
Instead he just became a holy rogue ^.^
srk.ares Indeed, I do agree with the people to a point. It certainly isn't really a class mechanic to just stand there and keep everyone's buffs alive, but that doesn't mean you cannot design a class around buffing others.
The only thing they NEED is a pet, maybe Blizz thought they already had enough pet classes with 2. (which is weird because the first hero class was a pet class ...)
I was thinking of things like a Melee attack that either buffs you, or if you have cast a specific buff on an ally it buffs them based on their role.
I guess they kind of did this eventually with "beacon of light", which is why I love to play holy paladin.
In 2006 when I started my first character, a rogue, I had to farm Fadeleafs to craft Vanish Powder to use Vanish ability, farm Blindweed to craft Blinding Powder to use Blind, do quests and farm materials to make poisons...
All while waiting to get to level 40 so I could get my first 60% mount.
These days everything feels so automated.
Awesome video man. Bring back that nostalgic feel. I remember leveling those base weapon skills was a bugger.
your videos make me miss vanilla ever so more.
Join the community at Kronos 3. Relive the vanilla feeling all over again.
I've got news
At the end of the day a lot of these were huge pains in the ass to deal with from a balance and fairness perspective, but it was all these little things that made everything feel unique and special, which is a big part of why vanilla is remember so well despite being punishingly difficult in many aspects.
I always felt that from a lore perspective your characters classes just got more powerful as they better learned to use their abailities over time, like the warlock pet summons. Sure it was difficult for them in early WoW, but as they had more and more practice with it, it became easier for them to summon demons and thus could teach new warlocks without having them go gather a bunch of stuff for a ritual.The whole Black Harvest questchain and backstory in Pandaria was centered around how all classes are looking for new ways to improve themselves, like Mages looking into time magic to learn Time Warp.
Paladin's Divine Intervention.
That ability was so cool and so fitting with the paladin theme as this holy protector, sacrificing themselves to protect someone for what was honestly a long time.
3 minutes, to bathe your target in light to make anything from the outside world unable to harm them. To even affect them. It couldn't be dispelled or stolen, only the target protected could choose to remove your ward from them.
I think the whole leveling thing should be mentioned aswell. The whole point of leveling is to grow up together with your char, to learn and master. Today, you can max a char in around 3 days or less, which ended up in people not knowing how to play their class efficiently, not having a connection to their char, which now hangs out in Orgrimmar or Stormwind with shiniest equip, but no idea how they got it. If you saw a max level char before, you could be pretty damn sure the person behind it could tell you a fuckton of interesting things about it.
Vanilla Tier 2 Pally looked scary as he came charging after you. Tier 2 Mage looked badass in Orgrimmar ^.^
Etc., etc.
I miss reagents for spells and abilities. They added so much to the game.
While I agree up to a point, soul shards not stacking and the ridiculous amounts of arrows hunters needed to be viable are not only very annoying, they're also very silly.
I miss divine intervention. Great video, thank you.
You forgot detect and disarm traps for rogues, we had to be on the front on Ice Crown Citadel to disarm the traps on the first floor, also it was great to disarm the hunter traps in pvp.
3:30 what is that warlock set?
edit - Oh. It's a druid set. That looks awesome on a lock though.
“Trolls & their bows.”
I’m pretty sure I never saw trolls use bows in WC II or WC III. Throwing axes and throwing spears are the true troll weapon of choice.
It was more them being good with ranged weapon.
@@tanyanikolaevagizdova6571 It ran counter to troll lore. It's the decision blizzard made when dealing with the ranged weapon class in the game - no thrown weapons except for rogues (and even then I hear they were complete shit and fucking inconvenient), and hunters only had bows, guns or crossbows.
I absolutely loved ritual of doom, I really miss it, plus the warlock demon quests in general, they created more of an emotional bond with your demon, I can still list all of their individual names off the top of my head, and have good memories of each of them. It gave a lot more meaning to minions.
I remember "Ritual of Doom" quite fondly. When I was a lowbie questing in Elwynn Forest, someone summoned a doomguard in Goldshire and it started killing everybody, lol.
It is complicated to maintain a good balance between flavor and actual gameplay balance. While all of this made the game feel more organic, I can't really blame Blizz for preferring to keep things simple. It would be a real shame if out of 5 raids within an expansion my character was only kind of useful in 2 because of the type of mobs or my class being a niche. WoW is a gigantic game with a huge number of classes, enemy types, etc. It would be great to see an MMO, maybe a tad smaller in scope, try to tackle this issue in a more organic way.
Keeping your pet at full happiness was easy, i actuaply liked to feed my tiger. I loved that you needed these reagents too
Warlocks doing ritual of summoning was the funniest part of the game sometimes. Praying you wouldn't die was exhilarating.
Not sure if it was just the innocent noob in me but I really loved the train pet options. As well as the fact that you had to gather abilities by capturing pets with them
HECK YECK NEW VID BOI
Unable to apply bleeds to machines, or poisons, Shackle undead for Priests.
"Top 10 Removed Class Fantasy Abilities" I cant forget the strip of the warlock demonology form...
Don't forget Kadger's unlocking spell, which was removed before WoW even went live. It let mages open lock boxes with a spell, but apparently rogue's felt slighted at the risk of lousing out on randoms running to them to trade a locked box into their face uninvited.
So this is how they drain wow of all its uniqueness
Hiru you forgot to add metamorph for warlocks(including all their cool spells they had like demonic leap, apotheosis making them literal tanks, immolation aura, chaos wave, shadow claw, charge.) , demonic pact, soulshards (in their old form). Also no mention of Infernal stone to summon infernal, or how the ritual of doom could kill the warlock whocast it? Come on man #pewdiepieisbetter
If it were up to you felplague, the list would be nothing but warlock things
RIP meta form 😭
i miss detect lesser invisibility :(
As a demolock the gameplay is about strengthening your pets, the meta form was paradoxically not the best idea to promote this style of gameplay. That's why they removed it.
they didnt remove it, just gave it to demon hunters, damned thiefs!
One thing that I think was really cool RP for death Knights was the different types of runes you could use for different abilities. It made it seem like the runes were much more tied to their source of power rather than being some random resource
10:28
If I recall correctly, Humans didn't have hunters until much later (Cataclysm), when the pet acquisition requirements you talk about were removed.
This sounds like a bunch of reasons why WoW WAS awesome lol
Go play Classic then.
This video was great! Have to say vanilla and even Bc WoW was much more of an rpg now it’s kinda just a shell of an rpg
Now people have vanilla again, but it's not about the fun of levelling, it's not about lugging arrows or soulshards around, it's about stacking world buffs in time for raid time to stetamroll through content.
You could almost have the number 1 just be Paladin in general. We've lost so many abilities over the years, it's not even the same class. Seals, Auras, exorcism, holy wrath, turn undead, and even blessing of might have been gutted. I miss how Paladin used to feel as a class. It was overflowing with class fantasy and as much as I enjoy the current version, I really wish I could go back. I want to equip my Librams, stock up on some reagents for Greater Blessings and feel like a Holy Warrior again.
It’s really interesting seeing all this stuff I remember no longer being in the game. I stopped playing right before Cataclysm and haven’t returned since, so it’s been a minute.
Omg ....raiding back in the day...5 full bags of ammo...and still ran out.
"Well, crap. My BiS dropped on the first boss. I guess I should just dunk 200 arrows down the drain to make room"
Exorcism and all the anti undead skills worked against forsaken?
only during alpha
I think they changed it so that all playable races counted as Humanoid, to prevent undeads from being trolled by legions of paladins
My paladin RPing as a Scarlet Crusader was very disappointed.
Hahaha, nope. That would have been way too powerful and terrible for anyone wanting to play forsaken, even if it made sense.
Entangling roots was so NOT useless. It was incredible in PvP vs hunters. There was a time where hunters couldn't shoot someone that's too close, so the common druid tactic was to use entangling roots on a hunter and move to the "sweet spot" where the druid is too close to be shot but too far for melee.
AND THIS is what i miss the most :( the lack of all the RPG aspects
So excited for Vanilla to get all nostalgic and having the features back :)
I feel it's quite unfair that you considered the usefullness of the undead only abilities to only apply to Naxramas when two endgame zones where filled with undeads and Scholomance and Stratholme where immensely popular 10 man raids filled with undeads that everyone had to grind at some point.
Weren't the undeads status changed from undead to humanoid in vanilla beta because pallys were to op than against the horde?
Undeads would be broken beyond belief their paltry weakness against undeads was nothing compared to being permanently imune to fear,charm,sleep,sap and polymorph they were changed because they would be night unstoppable in pvp if not.
Now that krucial quit this is pretty much the only place I can find content like this. Please don't quit,Hiru
i know u talked alot about hunters but changing diffrent aspects was such a major part for me back then that really helped with the fantasy
10 reasons why I stopped playing.
Coming back for classic.
same, it' s here now *-*
10 reasons why I played as long as I did and won't touch classic with a 10 foot pole.
I wish they would return the priest racial
i miss forsaken being able to breath underwater indefinitely
@@robinburt5735 fairly certain they still breathe underwater indefinitely
I think they have a innate bonus buff to breathing underwater but it is not indefinite. 10 minutes i think. Long enough i guess for most stuff
Doreen Green they can breathe under water indefinitly. Touch of the Grave: Dealing damage has a chance to trigger some shadow damage to your target and heal the caster for damage dealt. Also allows breathing under water without any timer. (just checked ...)
Yeah, as an avid Horde player, I had plans on making a NE and Human Priest way back in the day.
Yeah, that Defensive Stance quest; it was still around in some form when the LFD tool was introduced. Happened a couple of times, got grouped up with some warrior who hadn't done his def stance quest chain...
Thanks again my Friend. Great vid!
I think some of the nerfs you mentioned in this vid ( and many others you've blessed us with) were the ones that really disappointed me the most as WoW progressed, since the nerfs did remove a lot of the fantasy traits associated with these classes that had significant Lore value to them (i.e the Pally traits and Warlock traits).
Since a lot of them were also removed simply for "convenience", it became evident how much WoW got "dumbed down" to attract a more wide audience that had little (if any) previous experience with fantasy RP type games and it became far more just a simple "number crunch" exercise as you progressed.
I suspect this is also one of the reasons that "WoW Classic" became so popular with the Old Guard players, whom remembered when it wasn't a race to best gear end game but more a fun and thrilling experience to level up using traits and abilities that made you unique and therefore more relevant to your interests.
Regardless of the convenience factors the newer Retail version provides, many of us actually enjoyed the uniqueness of our developed 'toons and were quite sad to see them either eliminated or stupefied. Now, it's no more than a math quizz as you level and "how you play" means far less than "what you play".
I left Retail at the end of WotLK simply because outside the main character lore story aspects, I found it incredibly boring and silly. But...I came back for Classic. It's not quite as good as Vanilla was but pretty dang close. ;)
Blizzard sure has a hard on for removing things
Yep. Thats why i said to hell with it. Ill be back for vanilla.
Sword N Bored Blizzard should get to know what food becomes if you remove flavor:
*B L A N D*
Anyone miss pet disarm/pet Web
/target "friendly healer name" /cast devour magic " /targetlasttarget those were the days.
Talked about abilities targeting undead specifically, but didn’t mention how the Forsaken were all considered Undead as well, so things like Exorcism and Turn Undead worked on those players too.
Orcs at one point had a bonus for fist weapons as well. The way they phased it out had them be extra expertise on the specialized weapon.
WoW is not an MMORPG anymore, it's an MMO with a fantasy skin.
AKA remove all things that make classes especial, so every class is basically the same.
And god forbid that you have to use your brain, recognize your foe's weaknesses and use your skills accordingly. That would be too much of a hassle, instead lets just mash buttons until the mob dies.
This is what happens when the development team changes from RPG fans to "Call of Duty audience"-seeking devs.
only interesting thing left in the game is raid boss mechanics, everything else just meshes together.
Quiver models when hunters equipped a bow or crossbow.
Nowdays only Marksmen get quivers when transmoging or wielding their artifact weapon.
I think these were what made vanilla so great, just anything that made WoW an actual RPG. It had stuff you'd expect something like D&D to have, like class specific profession recipes (think Swift Thistle Tea), material components for spells (light feather for slow fall), and spell/ability restrictions (machines can't be polymorphed or bleed, humanoids can be pickpocketed, etc.).