CAMMUS FIRES AT FANATEC, ASETEK, SIMAGIC & LOGITECH AGAIN! - Cammus C12 Review
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- čas přidán 15. 05. 2024
- What if I told you you could buy a Direct Drive sim racing wheel that's compact enough to easily stash away when not in use, packs more punch than most people will ever need, and costs half as much as a comparable system from another brand?
Meet the Cammus C12 Direct Drive system.
Sound too good to be true? Let's find out!
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🕒 TIME STAMPS 🕒
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Intro: 0:00
Important Information: 0:26
Pricing: 1:42
Hardware Overview: 7:57
Build Quality: 17:45
Look Inside: 24:43
Software Overview: 30:37
Driving Experience & Comparisons & Conclusions: 42:49
#cammus #directdrive #simracing - Hry
This wheel looks a lot better then the last one
Its a big improvement, but it's also double the price.
@@boostedmediawell, double the price isn't too bad for a bit over double the torque I'd say
@@tiagobelo4965double the torque. but nothing else is double, and not the experience either
Why do you say not a better experience?
@user-wq9mw2xz3j do you have the wheel on hand? What are your thoughts about it since I'm looking into buying it
It's fantastic seeing all these new direct drive options at increasingly more affordable price points for what you're getting! 12nm at that price is awesome.
And it’ll probably arrive too, unlike my November order from Fanatec. But hey, at least their support team ignores me.
@@aus87185 funny you say this, I was thinking of getting a Fanatec system, and you just made think between moza and cammus rn, thanks!
I will never be against affordable DD. Keep bringing these prices down!
Cammus with the new 12nm DD
Moza coming in hot with affordable sequential
SIMAGIC blazing a trail with the new GT NEO
Plus all the other gear and brands that are continuing to get prices lower. I love the direction sim racing is going. Sim racing is special.
It's really interesting how they're going a different direction than everyone else. This seems like it would be an incredible option for sim racers who go on the road a lot, as it looks like it would easily pack in a suitcase.
The DC input being a XT60 is something that tells me there is someone with knowledge in the background.
Thanks for the crazy informative video brother!!!
Can't wait to see your next one!
I’m sold. Thanks for a stellar review.
Love the shirt :D
Another 3AM idea. LOL
wow this is looking good Will, i like it,I'm definitely gonna watch this review after work later,cheers Will,your the man 👍👍👍
I noticed the same thing about the stitching with my C5. I dug out some fingerless fishing gloves that I've been using and that works great.
Wow that's a huge improvement, although it has no quick release but the fact that we can change the wheel (with some trick) is nice to have!
You can also use cheap washers instead of a spacer plate to mount a different rim.
Always appreciate your thorough breakdowns, especially this format of a comparing what else you can get around the same ballpark. I started off thinking this was the wheel for me as a G920 user but I'm only going to upgrade once short of the next wheel breaking so the grainy comment about FFB put me off. Looks like I'm saving up for the Moza R12.
Very informative review.
As for the thumb encoders, I'd say if you use a wheel spacer maybe you can gain a bit of space to be able to push them with your thumbs properly.
Boosted; welcome back 😉😉
Great vid ...
One thing; on the C5 it's possible to fix the wheel directly to a rig and then fix the fan/housing on the reverse side of the wheel==> get the stability of the rig+the convective-cooling of the fan
I wonder if that would work here 🤨🤨
i am very excited to see the turtle beach review.
Great super detailed review. ❤
Looks like a really decent wheel. They also have larger paddel shifters now compared to the C5. Nice 👌
Interesting. Looking forward for their pedals in the future though.
Hey Will !
Nice review, and I heard from someone that cammus actually made great strides with the C5, on their latest firmware ! If you haven't upgraded to the latest firmware, can you do a back to back with both firmwares in a sort of an update review ? Maybe a short 5 minute or so skit ?
It's a great wheelbase, im working on my review as well, but it's easily the best overall wheel experience I've ever had. I have nowhere near as much experience as you will, but I have had my fair share. Navigating the menus with mouse emulation and up,down,left,right emulation makes richard burns rally user interface navigation possible straight out the box. I switched out the 300mm wheel rim to my usual 320mm wheel rim though.
I still dont know how cammus didnt win the most innovative product award for 2023.
The C5 is the most innovative design ever. And its not just for show.
It is 100% just for show. My friend got one and it broke within 2 weeks.
@@a_single_white_femalesounds about right. I don’t see these holding up like actual direct drive wheels.
@@a_single_white_female Never happened to me. They are a young company and seem to be learning and improving.
plus I didn't say they should win the highest quality award.
this design allows the wheel to achieve near instant rotation which is what I meant by not for show.
@@OkieDokieSmokie look up the definition of direct drive.
What exactly broke? Shifters? @@a_single_white_female
Great video as always. I'd like to see the reaction from someone who had only previously used a low end Logitech wheel or similar. Not only would they be the target market but they also wouldn't have the exposure to the high end gear so there base measure wouldn't be something that costs many times more. That's not intended as a criticism in any way, We just cant unknow what we know.
very grateful for this review. its such a different system than any other option on the market so its really valuable to have an honest comparison to whats already out there.
it's unfortunate that the small form factor doesn't really benefit the c12 as much as it did the c5 because its too strong for a desk.
even still, another great and thorough review
True. My C5 is mounted to a desk made from a hollow door core. The C5 cracked it. Had to add a backing plate.
Great review
I just got my c5. Such a great wheel!
Me too, but I will be upgrading.
@@antjones2281 asetek forte..
Me too. Plenty strong enough for me.
@@mustdobetter6748 what did you switch from? Im looking into the c5 now from a LOG G29 with wheel mod
@@immau pretty much the same as you - G920, but I am very new to this. got the C5 a week after a I bought the G920 2nd hand. I just couldn't get on with it, specifically when it came to correct oversteer. If I do take this more seriously, I think the C12 might make sense, but I'm running the C5 at 60% power.
I was told by a friend with a C5 that the graininess can be dealt with by fiddling around with the software. I can't speak to it as I don't own one. Food for thought though. However with him saying the C12 has more graininess than the C5, that would still bother some people I'd assume. I'd love to get my hands on one and try it. As a longtime Low end user I don't think I'd be bothered too much by that.
Here we go!!!! 🍾
Interesting use of an outrunner style motor which is typically more efficient at generating torque.
If they'd have had the button panel bolt on top of the wheel, I feel like they'd have a lot more flexible button placement, while still giving the flexibility of using different rims
it looks better that turtle beaches effort.. that thing reminds me of that toddler wheel we all had when we were kids lol ;)
Lol it looks like my old madcatz wheel that I still have somewhere.
@@voongnz 😂😂 I went through three madcatz 2 wheels
@@RockDodger tough break, mine was rock solid, even the suction cup mount lol
lol.. Mine always ebded up in bits.. and those rudder type pedals too.. I thought they were groundbreaking in 2011 lol. In fact they were rubbish.. or maybe it was just me.. probably the latter!
@@voongnz
That drift playground is so good. Should try the ADC420 VK Commodore on there 👍
This is way better. Definitely getting this as my travel wheel.
Have you tried the lc100 load cell pedals.. manage to get a set took a while to adjust and found some issues with the design but after slight modifiying the brake its quiet good
Cammus is makin moves!
Great review! What do you typically recommend for dampening the shifters?
Great breakdown and review Will, thank you! ... Some folk should really watch the full review before commenting and making themselves seem like they lack a few neurons lol
Amazing isn’t it. 😂
Could be interpreted both ways,...but the way I understand it is, that it's not worth the money, even though Cammus "did a good job". It's a shame though. If you build a DD wheel to shake up the market, you absolutely cannot compromise the quality of the FFB.
Looks really nice
Sorry to ask this on here, awesome review as always.
Do you know if Cammus has a customer support or returns as my C5 shifter has snapped after 3 months of very light use? Just wondering if there customer support is any good?
the fan plug looks like a balance port from a 2 cell lipo, which isnt suprising with the RC based XT connector being used as well as using an outrunner motor
Yep 12Nm is perfect I use a Moza R12 and keep it at 50-60% ffb and leave available at torque at 90% to avoid clipping yeah it's perfect hits hard when it needs to like in a crash and rumble strips and curbs feel right and drifting feels very exceptional I freaking love my Moza R12 and Moza R5 that I use on console with a wheel hub adapter thing by Brooks the Ras1ution 2 it works great
It's been said many about the "thumb" encoders.
I think these were made in a way only to rotate with thumbs and push with index fingers.
Everybody take a shot 🥃 whenever he says "for the price point"
...
i'm smashed.
Will reducing the power of the c12 also reduce the "graininess" feeling of the wheel?..if so,then will it be possible to optimize the wheel to have a "8-10" newton c12 which has a better or similar driving experience than the competitors?
Just received c12 yesterday, it's brilliant, my logitch g pro is now redundant. The cammus c12 runs rings around the g pro, there's no comparison.
How is Cammus c12 better than Logitech g pro wheel? That one had great reviews
The g pro is really good, the cammus is better. Better ffb, you can change wheels, stronger feel overall. Cammus set at 6 NM in assetto corsa is stronger than logitech set at 11 in assetto corsa with both bases set at full torque.
It's just better.
i got the tony kanaan edition of the astek wheel and wheel base for 600. you should review that one and compare the two
Remove the "High speed damper" for drifting is massive the difference
All Cammus needs to do right now is build their distribution network in North America. Huge market for cheap sim racing products here, and shipping/import costs just ruin the deals they offer. There's a handful of people like Douglas Thompson who offer free shipping, but there's no one that ships to Canada for free yet.
So I'm out of luck.
Seems like Cammus could become an Amazon seller to use their shipping network for U.S. and Canada. I don’t know how that works, but other companies do it and have inventory in Amazon warehouses.
Loved this review, great job! I would like to throw my hat in the ring and voice some thoughts :)
IMO, and this is coming just by extrapolating a conclusion from everything you said (primarily when observing the inside of the unit) the problem here is the slip ring. If a motor does not have any notchiness or grainy feeling when powered off, most certainly it won't be worse when powered on (AccuForce and Small Mige owners know this very well!). An outrunner servo is, in paper, a more adequate solution for simracing FFB, but while Fanatec did it first with the Podium DDs, it failed to deliver the expected advantage. Cammus is the first manufacturer to take advantage, but in a way nobody did expect!
Sliprings are a well known point of failure, and are rarely used anymore, specially since wireless evolved so much that you can power electronics through it. For having a decent life, they need maintenance (lubing/greasing), and that grainy feeling tells me that at least your unit did not came in proper condition, so not only it gives a bad feeling, it could fail at any time. Why did Cammus do this? Is the wireless powering so expensive in hardware and patents that they could not achieve their target pricing?
I wonder if, thanks to its modularity, a better system can be modded into the unit, just like some aftermarket paddle shifters like you mentioned (they seem like a massive improvement over the C5 ones). But I think this warrants a v2 version from Cammus if they can do without the slip ring out of the box. You could do a maintenance yourself lubing it every 6 months, but on this day and age this is a big drawback and Cammus should fix it.
Extra points for also doing away with encoders and instead doing a fine job of processing diminute signals of hall sensors. Advanced encoders are not cheap, so this solution requires more R&D but delivers a cheaper product on the end.
It definitely needs better software/firmware. This is an aspect where competition is fierce. Not only needs more advanced signal processing option, it needs a more consistent way of feeding signal to the display, it could be seen in your video lagging or freezing, not keeping up with the simulation.
Finally, I think Cammus worst problem at the moment is outside the product per se: there are no guarantees you will get a good customer support if you run into issues, and this can make or break a brand in the long run.
Are you reviewing the Moza TSW soon? Or see if their mount works with other wheelbases. I'm especially interested in their upcoming indicator/wiper/cruise control stalks module for games like ETS2 & TDU
trust me Will they use that connector on rc car neve have i had it discounted even with my batteries have come outta the tray. it kinda crazy all rc connector dont clip just push together but they all hold so well
Is there seriously any reason to buy any logitech wheel anymore? The sim market is so exciting right now
None. Just get Cammus c5 + a fanatec pedal set.
Did you said that the holes of the Desktop Clamp fits the Fanatec CSL DD holes ? Would it be a solution to have an angle-adjustable desktop solution for the CSL DD ?
Even as a staunch Simagic loyalist, I gotta say, well done Cammus.
Can we have a match for the P1000, TB-RS and Q1 though?
Im so torn in whay wheel to go with haha im newish but want to get a decent setup. So many choices thabks for all your reviews
Cammus c5 if you are new in this... in my channel have review, unboxing and test of this wheel.
Do you think the Fanatec DD 8NM is a better option compared to the CaMMUS 12nm !? Is it so hudge the difference about the feel with the 4nm diference between the weels !?
can you please do a review on the new moza racing tsw on the fanatec dd2
It is a nice option that you can swap wheels, but what would that do to the geometry of reaching the paddle shifters? Adding 30 or 50 mm to the diameter will make it a reach for the shifters. They are already small and far enough behind and away from the wheel rim.
i really want to see cammus do well.
Does he show his cammus profile setup, it really affects the fidelity of the ffb
ah the good old XT60 RC connector for power supply. At least these are easy to get.
"This goes in nice and stiff." I'm sold.
Preorder.. ehh, durability is always left to time. Guess I will have to wait it out and see and hope they aren't sold out for months to come.
Has Cammus said anything more about a round wheel version of the C5? I think a C5 would be enough ffb for my needs, but really want a round wheel for drifting & rally.
Yes, it is planned just not sure when.
@@SleepyPantsSimRacing Thanks for your reply. I’ve watched your YT vids on the C5 wheel and know you are a US distributor/seller. Please update when you hear more on the round wheel C5. Also curious about these new pedals they are developing.
@timbruner4628 before the release of the C5 I told Cammus the wheel should not be flat-bottomed, luckily it's one of the least aggressive flat bottoms I've seen, but thier goal with the C5 was to make it travel friendly first and a smaller overall package so they could make the item cheaper to ship. Less depth, less width of the box...etc. so it makes sense. Not to mention, I'm sure they acquired many of the flat bottom wheels before they asked my opinion lol. Either way, it's still a great deal and so awesome to travel with!
Now that's looking good wheel that i will definitely BUY 💵💰🤑🤑🤑🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩👍👌
"It goes in nice and stiff" Nice!
One thing to note is that the ES wheel also works with the r9 v2. it won't work with the r9 v1 though.
With the paddles having screws, I wouldn't be surprised if there was third party sellers for bigger paddles even made for dished wheels.
When you mention graininess, is it when it's rotating freely (but power is on) or when you fighting the ffb? Because I get graininess too with my DIY hoverboard motor wheelbase, but only when rotating the wheel while not fighting the force feedback. Once the FFB signal is on mid to higher side, it's smooth like fighting a spring.
It’s all the time, but less noticeable when fighting the FFB.
But I do wonder how much the shipping will be because when I went to purchase the c5 the shipping was about the same price as the wheel it self so I got disinterested by it
boom of DD wheels is fantastic...only thing I wish also evolved is console support (even tho 99% of racing games are better on PC)
Good review, what brakes were you using in your demo?
LC100
Please release the Alpha mini video🙏
Do a part #2 of that new simrig
Hi Will, first of all thanks for your hard work.
From your point of view, just for Iracing which choice is better, just tacking into account Forcefeedback, Fanatec Clubsport DD Plus or Simagic Alpha Ultimate?
Thank you in advance.
Impossible to say until we have Fullforce working.
@@boostedmedia I totally understand your point, but I meant, right now, without taking into account full force.
Which one do you prefer without taking into account full force in terms of Forcefeedback for Iracing?
I still need to do more testing with the Alpha Ultimate. Video isn’t too far off now.
@@boostedmedia thank you so much for your answer.Then, I will wait for that video before choosing one or the other base wheel.
By the way, I love your CZcams channel, thanks to you I started with simracing. Thanks again!
Interested to know why the t818 wasn't included in your list of bases to compare. Thank you for doing these reviews
lowerend base..
We haven’t tested one
@boostedmedia I was considering it because I already have T-lcm pedals and a wheel but the backward compatible QR looks like trash and honestly so does the new TM wheel 🤷♂️
Maybe I should look at the alpha mini
@@RowdyBurnzOn pc you definitely shouldn't bother yourself with t818 option
My C5 has way more power than i will ever need. Way, way over 5 nm. in some games it's scary strong until tuned. I mean its so powerful i can't hold on to it. more like 9-10 nm.
But those flimsy paddles suck.
So pc only? Any ps5 versions coming down the line?
That graininess would be a deal breaker for me but I suspect this could become a contentious discussion among sim racers. I was attacked when I made similar remarks about the graininess I felt in the T-GT's ffb. I find it funny how I prefer a completely RAW FFB over a smoothed FFB but can't stand any graininess being introduced by a wheel but it all stems from the same core desire from my wheel, I just want it to give me every bit of information the game is giving me, nothing more and nothing less. I guess that's why to this day the VRS offering is my favourite wheel because it does exactly that and I always preferred my VRS over my SC2.
I just brought the cammus c5 and then this comes out lol I def wouldve brought this
FANATEC needs to catch up
So to sum up:
- product will actually arrive, unlike Fanatec
- support will respond, unlike Fanatec
- lower cost than Fanatec
- product will actually arrive, unlike Fanatec
- higher torque than Fanatec
- support will actually respond, unlike Fanatec
- able to use virtually any wheel rim (with a spacer), instead of being forced to buy overpriced wheels from Fanatec
- higher quality rim than the base offering from Fanatec
- product will actually arrive, unlike Fanatec
- seemingly easier app interface than Fanatec
- support will actually respond, unlike Fanatec
Decision seems pretty easy on this one. Particularly if they can fix that grainy sensation with future firmware. Even if they can’t, I’ll take a grainy 12nm in my hands over the imaginary QR2 I ordered in November and am still yet to receive. 103 days and counting.
Any day now, right guys? Right?
103 days is wild lol. Bought a G923 about 3 weeks ago (brand new to racing games, have played FPS for years) and I've seen a LOT of people say there's no reason to buy logitech anymore due to fanatec's CSL offering for a little more money, but I'm starting to think I made the right choice. Almost got a C5 but the shipping was too much, would've just went with a moza r5 bundle at that point. When I eventually upgrade, I think I'm going to avoid the fanatec ecosystem altogether with everything I'm hearing
@@claytencs yeah, I deeply regret giving them a cent. They’re exactly what’s wrong with modern companies. They care only about their shareholder reports and that’s it. Go with one of their many similar (arguably better) competitors who actually care.
They’re still yet to even respond to my most recent email, advising that the package was lost in January and nobody looked into it.
So yeah, some people get lucky and receive their items real fast. But if you’re like me and don’t get lucky, you could legitimately wait 3 -6 months and they’ll practically ignore you the whole time.
It’s very much a case of “we have your money so shhh”. The interview with their CEO recently made that very clear. He was asked if he had any comment for the angry customers who were still waiting since November. His response was something like “well those people probably aren’t even watching. But if they want to buy from us in the future we’ll welcome them.”
No sorry. No nothing, just “if you ever want to give us more money in the future we’ll happily tske it.”
37:15 Would be cool if you could sometime show us how the bump stop feels in DD wheels compared to nm power and is it hard or not to force rotation further beyond set rotation limit.
38:54 Is it possible to turn off this rev and speed/gear displays? I really don't like any light comming out of my wheel.
Drift settings for C5 AND C12 please
Is there a way to get just the wheel rim? Its literally perfect for me: 300mm perfectly round and no hub offset. Its literally impossible to find sonething like that because most 300mm wheel rims have a hub offset.
Honestly I was thinking of the same. I’d love to buy the wheel alone!
They can probably make it an option If it's a popular enough suggestion.
Hey will can I get some help with fixing some settings of force feedback on assetto corsa pc with a fanatec csl elite please
$529 for the Moza R9 v2 with ES Wheel, which also has interchangeable rims.
Shit, I'd love one of these.
Hi will you be reviewing the new turtle beach wheel?
Yep. It was meant to be here today but didn’t show up. Hopefully we can get started on Monday.
@@boostedmedia looking forward to it
shame about the FFB, love the form factor and the easiness of swapping the wheels
The cammus wheels are just electric bike hub motors, plus they use open ffboard
Now that would make total sense and explain the "grainyness".
I want a dd but good lord they're too expensive when factoring in the cost of a rig etc
need a full size wheel or very close .
Cammus pedals should at least have an ABS shaker. Since you are giving them feedback.
are these inter-operable with moza pedals and shifter? (i haven't watched the whole video)
This only works with PC so yes, you can use whatever other hardware you like as long as it can connect to the PC via USB directly.
sweet as cheers@@boostedmedia
iirc cammus uses proximity sensors on their shifters, so ok i get the modularity point, but nobody makes shifters like that
I'm a carpenter, I've been working outside with bare hands since 1987, I used to have a Logitech G920 that had rough stitching around the thumb area, and I had to wear cycling gloves to race because it took my skin off.
My hands are full of callouses, but none in that specific area.
So even us outdoors, manual labour guys are still big wusses when it comes to soft skin.
I feel like the $999 microcenter simucube2 sport + gsi x29 or cube controls fcore-2 was the steal of the year.
I have a suggestion prompted by comments you made in this video. It might be helpful if you started giving a personal "feels like" rating of FFB strength.
The reason I suggest this is because the manufacturers ratings don't convey the actual strength feeling I experience in wheels. As an example My VRS set to 17Nm always felt much stronger than my SC2 Sport at Max strength and My Logitech Pro at max strength feels weaker than my old T-GT despite being rated much higher. I think this would be useful for people like me because I knew the Logitech Pro would feel a little weak based on my VRS experience but I thought it would be enough. The reality is it is far too weak for me and feels nothing like even 10Nm from a VRS or SC2 and comparatively feels over rated. While it is possible that other wheels might feel under rated.
earliest ive caught on of your vids