WHAT IS THE BEST LS3 INTAKE? BTR EQUALIZER VS TRINITY VS HIGH RAM! PLUS, BIG PLENUM VOLUME TEST?
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- čas přidán 10. 07. 2023
- WHAT IS THE MOST POWERFUL HIGH-RPM LS3 INTAKE MANIFOLD? HOW MUCH POWER IS AN LS3 INTAKE UPGRADE REALLY WORTH? DOES PLENUM VOLUME ADD POWER? WHICH INTAKE MAKES MORE POWER, THE BTR TRINITY OR HOLLEY HI RAM? IS HOOD FITMENT A REASON TO CHOOSE AN INTAKE? HOW DOES RUNNER LENGTH CHANGE THE POWER CURVE? HOW MUCH POWER IS PLENUM VOLUME WORTH? ARE ANY OF THE HIGH-RPM INTAKES BETTER THAN THE STOCK LS3 INTAKE? CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO WHERE I COMPARED THE STOCK LS3 INTAKE TO THE BTR EQUALIZER, BTR TRINITY AND BTR TRINITY WITH A BIG PLENUM (TO TEST THE EFFECT OF PLENUM VOLUME). I ALSO COMPARED THE TRINITY TO THE HOLLEY HI RAM.
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
Haven't even finished the video but a BIG THANK YOU Richard! These three intakes are EXACTLY what I am debating between and this is the ONLY a-b test that exists so far. You are a national treasure, Sir!
Glad to help!
Exactly!
thnx
He’s the Shit at giving tips fa sure I appreciate all your videos 💯🫡
I saw o2 sensors on each exhaust port. Any chance we can see a comparison of which manifold has the best air distribution? Or at least a comparison of afr spread. Interested on how that stacks up vs the ls3 manifold.
This is a GREAT one Richard!!
Always ends up being about runner length. Nice vid Richard 👍
Increasing plenum volume will only benefit output if plenum volume is too small to start with.
Sounds like the trinity is the ticket if I ever swap to efi on the dragboat. Great comparison richard!
That busy beginning of the video would be a perfect part for your usual boom-boom-da-boom-boom-da-boom-boom-da-boom-boom-boom boom music!
can't use that any more
Great video, thanks!
I have a 2018 camaro SS, I just installed FBO + heads and I used a trinity intake manifold and ported the hell out of it. When I do my cam swap next year it should rip. Thanks for posting the comparison between different intake styles.
How did you port
@@zmenace7463with an air die grinder.
Awesome test! Now BTR vs Ultra Low Ram 😆
Gotta see how the CID 4.0 LS3 stacks up.
Love the shirt!!!
It would be helpful to read the dyno graphs if the two different manifolds were not the same color on the graph
My take from this test is LS3 manifold on a street car and one of the others on a all out drag LS or maybe a time attack car where you might want to kill some torque for traction.
Exactly, that’s why I’m still running the 6.4L intake on my big cam high compression 394Ci 6.4L stroker. Perfect setup spinning 6,500rpms , due to 5degrees of advance, on my 3,600 stall 8speed launching 4X4 for no prep racing.
I would love to see this test on a 408 stroker with cathedral port heads
Good stuff.
Can you do a test on the gm performance cams? They have very large odd splits. The stage 3 is like a 233/276 on a 107
I see Snuffleupagus is putting in work. 😛
In an advertisement for the advantages of switched intakes
I think Kegaladon showed that big plenum volume doesn't make any difference.
This is another great example of that.
Now figure out a test to show when small plenum volume begins to hurt.
One thing I always found interesting in testing but never had a chance to properly investigate is pressure pulsation in the plenum. Today's sensors and dataloggers can do a really good job showing the pressure drop in manifold with each cylinder event. Taking an RMS measurement of the map sensor fluctuation curve might be a good predictor of when you need more plenum volume.
there will always be pressure waves present in the plenum (reflected, Helmholtz and inertial ram), not sure even with a high sample rate that the fluctuations would indicate a need for volume (if volume even adds power).
Yea, it really does seem to be proven consistent that plenum volume is either "you have enough" or "you don't have enough"
@@richardholdener1727 Taking the RMS value of the sinusoidal pressure variations would give you an average magnitude of pressure drop during intake event pulses. Theoretically the larger the pressure drop the more likely you would need to increase plenum size. However I've never had the time nor inclination to (1) design the test (2) instrument the engine and (3) put together an intake manifold with a large enough variation in plenum volume to matter. But you Rich, you could do it ;)
Church-We would be monitoring more than just a pressure drop based on intake pulse. For each intake opening there are multiple (primary, secondary, tertiary) reflected waves to name a few, from every cylinder, if you have a fast enough sample rate-you would see pressure spikes for days (including Helmholtz from plenum volume resonating frequency). Again, I doubt you would see this correlate or indicate a need for plenum volume, and since I have run lots of plenum volume tests that showed nothing, it makes me skeptical of finding any gains even if we change it. Someone please show me a plenum change that made power (not on a carb tunnel ram)-I need to know it changes something
Me literally ording a truck Norris cam kit and wondering if I should swap manifold and valve covers in the process. This should answer my questions
don't pick any of these manifolds to work with a Truck Norris
@@richardholdener1727 yeah. Really hard to go wrong with stock
Richard the video is zoomed in and you cant see the graph where the results are shown
Man I wish you guys had the Texas speed Titan in this.
isnt that 2 different cams???
Do ypu plan on doing same with k24? Like rrc vs rbc vs skunk2?
Rick Crawford ported l92 intake is the best
What’s the compresión on that engine?
Cant see the high rpm graph. Where did the rpm start to really drop off?
It is hard to read the Dyno graphs when they are all the same colors.
Since you can't really put trumpets on each runner entry on the big plenum, I wonder if radiusing (45 degree ?) each entry/port would have improved high speed flow, or at least the transition from plenum to cylinder/runner ?
all the intake ports are at least radiused
how about a NRE x-ram test? compare to edelbrock ,holley etc that 427 ls is perfect for it!
or the Alien!
@@richardholdener1727 x-ram torque maker
Have you run any tests on shrinking plenum volume? How small before it starts to really hurt HP?
Watch the Holley Hi Ram vs. Edelbrock Pro Flo XT (previous video). It's the closest direct comparison you will likely find on the topic.
@@joeyjojojr.shabadoo915 👍
Richard been wondering for a min if it worth the money to put a great set are polish and port heads if you’re running boost not racing on track just a weekend fun car?? Some say it’s not going to make big difference?
It will make a difference same as naturally aspirated. The boost just multiplies the naturally aspirated performance. If you've got the ring gap for it and can keep the intake charge cool enough adding a couple pounds will be a lot cheaper .
If you're getting to the limits of intake temps and boost porting them will lower the boost on a fixed displacement and be nicer to the rings and intake temps while improving hp.
If it's a turbo you'll see more CFM and power for the same boost or be able to lower the boost for safety and make the same or more power.
easier to turn up the boost
@@richardholdener1727 thanks that’s what I thought just making sure
I'd like to see that extra plenum volume tested on a boosted application.
Ive done that and between the intakes holley hi ram amd sniper intake both 102 mm throttle bodies non ported and turbo was a 91mm garrett. made 1345 28 psi on the sniper and 1389 on the holley with 26 psi m1 methonal was the gass , but the holley hi ram just out flowed it
a test between the Sniper and Hi Ram is NOT a plenum volume test-it is an intake design test (plus the other different variables mentioned)
@@richardholdener1727 The desiighns are fairly close both are short runner tunnel style. The high ram flowed more over the sniper. The plenum from the hi ram was more so over the drop in psi a mesure of restriction but made more power over the sniper. The sniper has trumpets in the ports im willing to bet if the sniper had more area or plenum over the ports it will out do the holley. Ive watch the intake shoot out wich was very interesting, Ive have been playing around the concept of ITB set up with a plenum. The first one three d made wasnt to bad on a B18 honda motor na made 70 hp over the stock but low speed air made it boggy so to speak but in all its fun plan on boosting it to see what it does.
70 hp over a stock Honda intake? Again, Plenum volume is not why the Sniper won't make Hi Ram power-but good luck with your testing.
@@richardholdener1727 Wow Richard lol ok what plenum means to us is the port I see what you are saying as far as plenum. Language barrier But yes we pick up 70 hp over a factory honda intake, When I come back state side Ill go by the shop and be glad to bring it up there so you can test it. We also have a very neat ls intake we are testing its a short runner , but it carries very good tq against a ls3 4 hp differance before the curve but after the ls3 carries more peak but we are thinking the harmonics and turbulance is hurting our intake . Ill be in touch and keep up the good work.
Also just for future can we get a big bang 4 cylinder shoot out ? I got a couple of engines to bring to the cause free
I saw there is some FSAE paper where they were testing plenum sizes on a 600cc motorcycle engine but they had the max benefit at much larger volumes (8 X the engine displacement in intake plenum volume). If you scaled that on a LS3 that's nearly a 50L intake! You'd be driving around with a damn bin on top of your engine to get a few extra peak HP. I don't have access to the paper but they only mention peak numbers in the summary, so I'm wondering if the cylinders are basically seeing the intake plenum as regular atmosphere by that point and the extra volume is acting like a damper, just minimising the possible negative interference from intake pulses from other cylinders and the effect that has on transient pressures.
I ran the Kegalodon (see video) that was basically a Beer keg for a plenum (no change)
@@richardholdener1727 That was a cool test, would be pretty close to that 50L mark too and no real change at all. It would be interesting to see what their test setup was where the impact was so great, maybe has something to do with the bike engine tested revving out to 12.5k RPM or the way they increased the plenum volume had some kind of unintended extra effect on flow/scavenging.
I wonder if it also could be due to the position of the throttle body going straight to atmosphere in the dyno vs having a more restrictive intake tubing setup but I don't imagine their setup would have been too different to yours.
At the end of the day it seems like its super complex to tune and offers tiny changes comparatively to the runner length or the pressure gain of ram air intakes on sports bikes.
Thanks for all the tests, so many times I've been thinking about stuff like this and time and time again you've already done the test
Edit: Looked that test up again and they did have a 20mm restrictor plate in front of the throttle body to comply with FSAE competition rules so maybe it's mostly a way of optimising around the negative effects of intake restrictions.
makes me wonder if a restricted application is more responsive
@@richardholdener1727 If you still have Kegalodon you could try add some kind of factory intake + filter setup. It's a quite a silly test but could maybe represent the extreme situation of intake plenum size in a stockish engine bay. I think you're more likely to run into a too small one still than have the larger one make a reasonable impact for a volume someone could actually achieve in an engine bay.
How do these guys manage such a wide RPM range for the dyno pull?
Power mark dyno
@@richardholdener1727 and when might westech be taking delivery of one of these??
they have one now
Richard what would something like one of the BTRs do on a stock 5.3? Or a stock bottom end 5.3 with a Truck Norris cam or equivalent?
wrong intake for that combo and rpm
@@richardholdener1727TBSS be the best option for that set up ?
@richardholdener1727 oh I know, but humor me. Difference between the BTR and a truck intake on a stock 5.3 if it had a truck Norris in it?
@@notchase1798 a Whipple would be the best intake manifold lol but the fast LSXR or LSXRT would be the best intake for that combo. Look up the cathedral port intake test it's the best for that power range
Any short runner intake will hurt power and torque through 99% of the effective operating range on a 5.3L with a Truck Norris Cam. Pick the TBSS or FAST or leave the stock truck (especially if you have boost planned in the future)
When are you going to get the new XS LS3 Intake Manifold and test it?
that video is already up
Can you supply a link please cause I been waiting on that and haven’t seen if in youlist of vids lol
it was three video ago-it comes up when you go to my channel
I found it, thanks!
enjoy
what is the best intake mani for ls3 on a N/A setup heads/cam on pump gas only?
the ls3 intake is hard to beat-see big ls3 intake videos
Run the fast LSXHR and run em with a turbo... which 1 makes the most power at 15-20 lbs!
The same one that made the most power NA
Is the manifold vacuum very different between these?
we monitored that
@@richardholdener1727 Does the larger plenum volume intake have less of a vacuum? Or is the vacuum the same between intakes at WOT?
vacuum is the same because power was the same
Suspect the large plenum woikd come into its own under boost
I wanna see that shoot out!
if it doesn't change na, it doesn't change under boost
@@richardholdener1727 does this apply for all manifold though? Because there are some manifolds that work better under boost than other. I still say test it since you have the equipment
which manifolds work better under boost and not NA?
@@richardholdener1727 dual plenum. Not v8 dual plenum, wrc style dual plenum. Regardless
Test it if nothinf changes then you are right and im wrong
You don't pair the rpm you want to run to the intake....you pair it to the camshaft then the intake.
the intake will run this rpm with many different camshafts-reflected wave is VERY rpm specific
@@richardholdener1727 and if the camshaft and intake are matched it will run better.....as we seen with the short runner intakes paired with this camshaft.
you just said you don't pair rpm with the intake-but you do
@@richardholdener1727 the intake gets paired with the camshaft.
It doesn't do much good to have a 8k rpm cam wuth a 6k rpm intake.....as you just showed us.
When I make an incorrect statement-I own up to it, but keep digging those heals in and good luck! For everyone else-You DO choose the intake for the desired RPM range.
First hah
Weird I haven't seen anyone else be able to replicate these results between the btr intake and the Holley. Am I missing something
At least where on the same page
@@6oblintv not trying to knock him for the testing but it just seems skewed, every NA guy that goes max effort will use a Holley. Seen time slips showing slower Eats with this manifold too
@@All_Stock_Garage with the trinity having shorter runners I don’t see how it keeps up down low unless it’s the tune. That just tells me the low Ram vs the trinity (low ram) would be even better up top
Have you ever seen a direct back to back test of these manifolds-cuz I have not. These results are exactly what should be expected from anyone that understands intake design-a longer runner makes more down low, the shorter makes more on top. what is not to understand?
@@richardholdener1727 "What is not to understand?" Hell yeah brother.
Yeah that large plenum intake manifold design was absolute shit. Very turbulent it takes more than just added plenum volume it's also about the rest of the combination
Car would be faster with the hiram