G30-900 and G35-900 compared
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- čas přidán 27. 01. 2020
- We compare the latest G30 and G35 900HP model Supercores - high HP output from 76mm exducer compressors. We discuss the predecessors and the basics surrounding these two clean sheet turbochargers!
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
Great video and clear explanations thanks👍👍
awesome stuff
Really Good Video and the explanation Thank You! Question for you I have a Toyota 5e engine and I'm using it only for drag racing no street use I have race cams for and the bottom end is built with a cemented block I'm debating between these two turbo which would you recommend? I appreciate it and thank you for your time!
Finally, comments enabled again. Thanks for all of your videos brother.
Great news on your new OE replacement upgrades too!
Ever get to the balancing video on that G30-660?
Thanks for the comments Beau - the new youtube studio had some wierd issues which i managed to sort out last night. The balancing of the G30-660 will come this week if all pans out - sorry about the wait.
@@TurboDirectSA Oh, no worries brother, grateful for your time, glad you got it sorted!
Very informative, I'm still hunting for a turbo for my rb26 stock bottom with build head. I got a 6266 Precision Gen is not responsive at all. Needs 620hp at 25/27 psi and might go for forged internals and go up to 850hp or more in the future. Street/track use. Something responsive. Thank you
Such a good video
Thank you Clayton
I just bought and received my very first turbo I got the g35-900 with 84 exhaust housing .. hope it works well with my built rb30det in a VL commodore running a 6 speed tremec magnum and 411 diff gears 🤤😊😎
Sounds like a great project - share some info and dyno figures once you done with the build.
So informative
Thank you Tomi
Hi Chris, many thanks for the informative video and replies in the comments. i was just wondering if you could answer my question for me. im currently building a forged rb25/30 with extensive head work and all the goodies for around 600hp on e85. i want a responsive set up however i dont want to be blowing the tyres off everytime i put my foot down. im aware having 3L displacement will help me alot with spool on a bigger turbo, but do you think the g30-900 will do me justice? its a street car that will sometimes be running in roll racing / track days. Thanks
Great question - we have many clients who have similar builds/applications. The trick here with your setup is to understand that the small G30 turbine 55mmx60xx WILL blow the tires on this motor build - even if you use the slightly larger AR83 turbine housing. For your application you want to have a slightly "laggy" setup to prevent that punch response low down. The larger G35 turbine is just too big for this, even inside the smallest AR61 turbine housing --
So where is the balance - if this was my build, i would be opting for the EFR range - the reason is because they have a size thats (dimensionally and response-wise) in between the G30 and G35 - it fills that gap - and will give you the response you want when you want it and will not blow the tires off when the boost hits. Even at high boost pressures there will be traction (obviously surface/grip dependant and how you drive (turns, bends and punching the throttle etc) The route i would opt for would be the EFR7670 - it will make the power you want anyway. The size of the Gamma TI turbine is 61mmx70mm which is as close as dammit compared to the G35 which measures 62mmx68mm BUT the mass of the Gamma TI wheel is 30-40% lower than the G35 - Thats where the response/delivery fills the gap between the G30 and G35 -- The AR of the turbine housing is also AR83 from the T3 family.
Hi. Thanks so much for taking the time to do these vids. I'm finding all of them very informative and interesting. As a follow-up to this vid though, was wondering what your thoughts are on the following: G30-900 with 1.01 ar vs G35-900 with .83 ar. Based on my pedestrian knowledge, I'd expect both turbos as configured to have similar max power, transient response, and boost thresholds, but you'd have more room to grow with the G35 turbine (as long as you don't run out of compressor). Would love to hear your thoughts though.
Jae - Thanks for the comments - we have a new video coming out this week covering the compressor map efficiency and calculations based on a specific engine, im sure this will provide you with insight into the subject a little more. Just a comment on the two turbos you mention - always keep in mind that the turbocharger is simply a fan, or an air pump. The engine consuming the volume of air that the "pump" is providing is essentially the determining factor as to how the turbocharger will respond and flow. If you have a 600CID V8 with a single turbo G30-900 withAR1.01 (yes its an exaggerated example) the power will be instantaneous and the engine will consume all of the capable air flow from that turbo before the engine passes 3000RPM. Now if you using the same engine with the G35-900 with the AR83 you will certainly see a difference due to the fact that the backpresure and turbine flow differences will affect the overall characteristics of the turbo. The engine will still consume all of the available capacity of the G35 but it will be close to the G30 with the larger AR but not exactly the same as the turbine wheels weight between them are very far apart.
Lets do the same with say a 1600cc Toyota 4AGE engine, the G30 with AR1.01 will spool say around 5000RPM at 1.5bar gauge pressure (just an example / estimate), changing to the G35 with smaller AR turbine will not spool the same at all as the weight of the turbine also comes into play aswell as the pressure inside the turbine housing.
Its something that has to be calculated using the formulas provided which incorporate the engine VE, CID, BSFC (brake specific fucl consumption) and RPM -- wait for the video on this - it will be a few parts but the first will be released soon.
@@TurboDirectSA Thanks so much for the incredibly detailed response and your time. Guess it's not as black and white as I was expecting, but what you said about engine differences playing a big part in the exact turbo selection makes absolute sense. I'll be sure to check out your follow-up videos on this topic. Thanks again for taking the time to share your expertise with the community
@@jae9843 Pleasure sir - im glad you enjoyed it
Hey Chris,
I've got a s2000 (usual vtec high revving).
I'm currently running a gtx3582r 1.01ar. I'm noticing alot of lag, now the motor is fully built and I'm happy to push it, and definitely want to achieve that with the new G series.
I'm stuck between the G30 900 or g35 900 and which ar for the best response and power band throughout the full rev range.
I would not purchase a new turbo, simply install the AR83 turbine housing, this will bring your boost response into a street-able area, the GTX3582R is a serous turbo, changing to the G30 or G35 is a waste of time unless you have honestly maxed out the GTX3582, to which then you will need to look at a larger turbo than the G30 or 35.
Hi
Firstly thank you for your information it's really useful ! I have a question or you opinion which of the two turbos would you use for a 2.2ltr 4g63 Evo for800/850bhp for street and drag use ? 8000/8500rpm ?
Thanks in advance
Neither - for drags on a 4G63 setup i would go for a larger turbo - low down response is not as key as the outright power for a drag application, and you will spend you your time in the high engine rpm range mostly - so the EFR8474 Black series is without a doubt a much better option as it makes a true 950-1000HP output and will spool fast enough for the 4G63 to spool it easily and flow enough to make power through to the RPM limit of 8000 and above.
Chris as always, your videos are extremely informative, and well done! When looking at the compressor maps, all the g series seems to be a little lower than their advertised power rating. Or, am I reading the maps incorrectly? If you are building a street car (700-725whp) for quick spool, which turbo would you recommend? It will be on a RB26 with a progressive 100 shot. Thank you for all the work you do, and your time! Cheers, Tony
Tallen Motorsport you are not reading the maps incorrectly at all - keep in mind that maps are prepared in X'ratings' - When I spoke with one of the team leaders at Garrett in the past we spoke of a competitors compressor maps and the fact that they claimed to make so much air flow and boost level ....... i was shown that the map was setup in X-15 which equates to for every 10lb/min of air flow the compressor boasts 150HP -- when you see some of the other OEM turbo manufacturers, (we have direct distributorships with all of them) other maps are designed around X-12 (120HP for every 10lb/min of air flow - The latest Garrett maps might not seem correct (using the 10lb/min = 100HP calculation), but in reality, we have seen that the G-series actually produces more than what the maps claim, showing yet another conservative effort on the Garrett side. Ill try to get some more information from Garrett techincal team on this and comment back - perhaps this calls for another video.....
As far as recommended turbochargers, i alway work slightly differently to other tuners/shops/outlets - i like to imagine this was my own build, and advise accordingly. The Turbocharger should never be pushed to its limits to make the intended power, as you know you ALWAYS need a little more here and there. Why push a turbo to its limits all the time when the engine is in use (unless its s track car/competition/circuit/rally application where budget allows rebuilds and the designs with HP limitations are on the ragged edge. If the car is a street car but will be used together with some form of motor racing, drifting etc, rather choose a turbocharger with some reserve in place in case of the demand for more - at the same time you lower the pressure, boost, heat into the engine, and run there turbo at lower speeds, however still using the same turbine selection for the required reeponse. HP is easy to make and if a certain turbo is just too big or just too small, it is easy to make small mods to the motor, fuel used or both to play "catch up" and fill the gap.
G30-900 is a loaded gun! We have just seen a Golf7R make over 700WHP on a G30-900 with AR61 turbine housing, and said goodbye to an expensive clutch upgrade - now to swap the tranny to the DQ500 setup..... point is the 700-750WHP setup cars will love the G30-900 (motor size dependant obviously) and have plenty in reserve. This power is easily achievable around 2.2 - 2.4bar boost gauge pressure, once again motor dependant. drop me a line privately if you don't want to share your project in the comments section, and ill help where i can.
@@TurboDirectSA A video covering that would be extremely helpful. I am looking at a couple maps right nany, and I see nothing that states 12 or 15 for x. I was leaning towards either the 30-900 or the 35-900. 700whp with a .61 on a 30-900, wow! My car will be 100% street. Forged 2.6 with 264/9.15 cams, meth, fuel to support 900hp, 3.5 exhaust, light ported head. Basically I want the grunt of a V8, but able to spin to 8200rpms safely. When I was running the numbers on the 2.6, I was on the limit for 2.3bar with that 30/35-900 compressor. Of course its what you plug into the variables that dictate the limit, so I could be off a little. With the number you just quoted, I will probably lean towards the G30. N2O on a RPM window that starts at 3200, but will close when full boost is hit. Just for some added grunt if needed. I hate lag. ;) Thanks again for that you do Chris! Cheers, Tony
@@tallenmotorsport8416 Tony, i would lean towards the G30-900 for sure, it will make the power you want, since you have modified the engine to accept the flow that the turbo will provide, i don't see this being toooo much of a problem flowing to 8000rpm, but with the mods and cams, it might just lay down onto - if it does, simply change to the AR83 turbine and youll be 100% again, however you will then start using the NOS a little more ..... its always a trade off and a balancing act I'm afraid.
Next thing to try is add 5% nitro to your mix, and see what happens ..... :-)
@@TurboDirectSA just a question, on a destroked 2.3 wrx with all the extras which currently has the g30/770 but runs out of airflow which would be a good upgrade to keep good response. I would still like 4K response so it has a decent power band,but more top end so the turbo doesn’t roll over
@@Adl-pk4hg You see the results coming through on the G-series turbos now -- remember as i mentioned on the comparison between the G-series and the EFR turbos - as the boost increases the Garrett falls away, and the power reduces - Its sad that the G-series turbos are nothing compared to what the original GTX Gen1 and Gen2 were - i guess when the management teams 'rule' over their employees, the dream team falls apart - Now to answer your question -
We have put together a turbocharger that combats that exact problem, that i have been speaking about for 3 years now. We use a combination of the Gen2 GTX and modified compressor of the G-series in order to hold power higher in the RPM range (compressor map widens) For now you might have to change the turbo to the 900 - BUT it will be laggier, this is in essence now what you want, but the other alternative is to change (you are changing a turbo anyway) to a different turbo.
What HP target are you currently reaching? Tell me more about the boost and fuel used, ill share my thoughts
Are either of these comparable to the BW 8474?? I’m using my supra for circuit racing and want to make 600 but have room for future added power.
What turbo would be a recommendation for fast consistent spool between borg and Garrett
Thanks for the comment - hang fire, next week i will be releasing a comparison between these units and the EFR8474 Black Series. I believe you will be very surprised.
Hi there! What's your opinion on using these turbos on a single port head, like the mk7 GTI I am building? Expecting 700-750 wheel on e85, given I already have a fairly large exhaust restriction even with a sizeable port to the head where it will not flow past 800-850ish typically even with porting, is the G35 just likely to be extra lag with no benefit?
SleepyGTI - thanks for the comment, im sorry to say but you will not see 750WHP + on the EA888.3 engine. Not with all the external mods nor with larger valves, and flowed head. If you see 700WHP you will have achieved more than most with a spend of over $30K+ in their builds. This is just not a realistic power figure im afraid. We have clients who have run EFR9280, GTX3584RS, S300SXE, and many other combinations, and the power seems to top out around 650-680WHP in most cases. I would stay far away from the G35 - it does not make anywhere near what is printed in the catalogue.
What G Series Garrett would you recommend for a 4G63 powered Nissan S14 drift car?
Fully built motor, ported heads on ethanol.
Aiming for 600-650 crank.
Thanks for the videos
Thanks for the comment - i would not use any G-series turbo. I would use the proven GTX Gen2 or EFR series turbo - or the TurboDirect S.A range of ball bearing turbos. The G-series do not live up to the claimed HP from Garrett
This is a great comparison. What would you advise between G30-770 vs EFR8474 for VAG 2.0TFSI EA888 gen 2 engine?
Thank yo for the comments - this is actually not a fair comparison as the EFR has so much more to offer compared to the G30-770, the EFR is internally gated, includes DV and Boost control Solenoid. The EFR is also one family size up on the G30-770 - what you should compare to the G30-770 is the EFR7670, which is light years ahead in terms of its offering.
he bearing system is far superior to the Garrett unit, who's design has not changed since its first ball bearing inception, except for the materials used for the balls and cages. The EFR features internal gate with up to 42mm swing valves, largest internal swing valve of any manufacturer, DV built in, with care taken to position the DV in the perfect position to ensure that the discharge is directed into the inlet of the anti surge comp housing directly through the specially machined port at the same gas path angle as the DV discharges at - something noone else offers. The EFR7670 will spool the same and make more power in the higher RPM range of the engine (assuming 1.6 - 3.0 engine size) than the Garrett will. The turbine wheel on the Garrett is smaller and will not hold the torque and HP in the higher RPM range - the EFR shaft being larger will still spool up against the Garrett because its made from Titanium Aluminide, which weighs 30-35% less than Inconel shafts.
Price is the obvious next question - the EFR is most certainly a contender because of all that it offers over the Garrett at the same price point - with the Garrett you will have to purchase an external gate, fabricate additional plumbing, purchase a BOV, and boost control accessories -- with the EFR these savings are built in.
The next point is about boost control and lag - which has nothing to do with these two turbochargers and is a general discussion - ill be making a video of this soon to illustrate the information. It goes around the fact that external gates are laggier than internally gated turbochargers.
Thanks for the response. The target is around +640awhp and I think EFR7670 would be out of breath, that's the reason I'm comparing the G30-770 vs the EFR8474
@@lucaskithui1726 I have shot a new video covering the EFR7670 , it will be uploaded tomorrow some time - the turbo will not run out of steam, i go over the compressor map in detail - once you see the video you will understand. The 770 will fall off sooner than the 7670 due to the size of the turbine shaft and the shaft power driving the compressor. See the match bot from BorgWarner to understand the shaft power.
Also the backpressure in the turbine housing with the 7670 will be alot less than the Garrett, which will free up for the compressor to flow more in the high RPM range.
Ordered the g30-900 for my 2J gte vvti. Hopefully didn’t make a mistake
First choice is EFR by fr, but the 900 will spool fast enough and make some decent HP - streetable for sure.
This makes it even harder to decide. I have an Nissan Skyline GTR, RB26DETT standard displacement, and I want more response at a lower rpm, but I want it to hold to redline. I'm thinking G30-900 with a 1.01 A/R. What's your thoughts?
Keep this in mind between these two family turbochargers - the 30 family will spool faster, the 35 family will spool later. The 30-900 because the 30-900 might fall away at higher RPM, compared to the more efficient turbine of the 35-900, but spool-wise, the 30 will be your best bet.
just remember, if its a street car you building then response is normally a priority compared to the last HP - if its more of a dyno car or race/drag/strip car, andnot your daily driver, then the 35 is your route to go.
Hi, what turbo would you recommend for a rotary 13b engine street ported, fuel system and ecu to match. It will be used for street and some track/drift so response is important, and aiming for 400rwhp give or take.
Rotary's have massive exhaust flash - i would use something in the line of the EFR8474 Black with an AR92 or AR1.05 turbine housing, you can use a single gate with this setup for a responsive enough setup for drift. Start with the 92 first, i think it might be small, and you could generate alot of heat as a result.
Which is better on a built ej257 for goals of 400kw at the wheels? Mostly street application and 2-3 track days per year for fun.
You will need a turbocharger capable of a mass flow rate of at least 65lb/min at the intended boost level you want to run the engine at. I would make sure that the turbo is capable of at least 25% more than your required output so that you run lower boost to make the power you want. Depending on the track you will be running on, lag will be a problem because of the high HP target you have for this engine. the EJ series motors dont make power as well as some of the other inline 4 cylinders do.
Choosing a turbo for my n54 3.0 single build .. I would like good mid and top end with not a lot of lag , mostly for roll racing . anything between 700 and 750 whp will do . Is the g30 my go to or is it the g35? Was going to go pt6466 until I found these turbos
G30-900 will never see you to this power, even maxed out. I would opt for the following:-
store.turbodirect.co.za/index.php/shop/turbochargers/g3582r1-forged-detail
or
store.turbodirect.co.za/index.php/shop/turbochargers/g3582r2-forged-detail
doing a 2nd gen coyote build and going single turbo. Want boost just before midrange rpm and only looking for 10psi. Would this be ok?
I would look toward the Airwerks 300SXE -- various options there, that will make up to 1100HP and work 100% perfect for the Coyote motors, no matter how high you rev them - the SXE models dont run out of steam at all. Best of all - much more reliable to Garrett product and much less money, serviceable with genuine Borg parts and the list goes on!
Hi there, I have a Nissan S13 that I'm looking to turbo. My options are the G35 and the G30. Would I be correct in assuming that the G30 would provide a more responsive feel and the g35 would have more overall power in the higher rpms?
Yes correct - the larger turbo will produce more power high up. The smaller 30 will produce more lower down.
Can u compare it with gtw3884 ? All around 900 and 950 , but which one will be better respond from low to 7500 , 8000 rpm
This is not an apples with apples comparison at all - the GTW3884 is journal bearing (we don't believe in the ball bearing versions for price versus output reasons) and will most certainly spool far later than theball bearing counterparts. The second issue is that the GTW3884 comes with the T4 family turbine housing, which is a much larger AR and the T4 turbine shaft is also larger than the ball bearing turbos in comparison. The GTW will spool at least 1000RPM later than the G35-900 making this a great performance turbo for slightly larger engines, and will make the 900-950HP claimed by Garrett
How does the GT30-900 compare to the BW7163R in terms of max power and spool up time? Which would be better to use on a 7R which is both a daily drive and weekend racecar?
The G30-900 is not an apples with apples comparison. The EFR7163 is designed as a 550HP capable turbocharger, it makes this power with no issues and without having to run extreme boost settings. The G30-900 is a large compressor and much newer aero design when compared to the EFR unit - however the spool characteristics of all EFR turbochargers are nothing but extraordinary, due to the extremely light weight GAMMA TI turbine head. If its 900HP that you want to produce, firstly your DSG gearbox will shout mercy first, the remaining drivetrain will never handle this and the motors engine block will certainly put its hand up when things get on the boil - if you looking for a "relatively reliable" achievement output of around 550-600HP the EFR7163 is certainly a missile of a choice - id suggest you watch this to suit that turbo choice.
czcams.com/video/HecA-W9ji5M/video.html
@@TurboDirectSA Awesome. Thank you for the reply. Now to compare the EFR7163R vs Turbo Technics V5.
@@kiewietduplessis6463 Pleasure - never heard of the technics V5
Great videos man! I need a new turbo. So far I have been running with garrett turbochargers. Any advice would be appriciated. I got a rwd street car running a 3.2 engine, much like the 2jz. My setup is as follows; 6800 rev limiter, 9:1 CR, 95octane. 1.3 bar of boost on a t3 T04E. It may be too much to ask for, but looking to keep my 200whp at ~3000, and anywhere between 500-600whp at top. Would G30 660/770 or EFR 7670 be a decent option? Cheers!
Thank you for the comment - Garrett are overrated, especially the HP claims in the new G-series turbos. There are many options that exceed the capabilities of the latest Garrett range. Shoot me an email and i will assist you further info@turbodirect.co.za
@@TurboDirectSA Garrett's G-series HP ratings are based on two things. Crank HP, and with HIGH FLOWING heads such as K-series heads. When you take those into account, they're actually a bit UNDER-rated, as I've seen G-series turbos run (on a high flow head engine) damn near the rated power AT THE WHEELS. So if you have a car with a crappy head and an auto trans, especially a older (read, less efficient) torque converter auto, then yeah, you won't get 660 out of a 660 Garrett.
But if you have a K24 with a transverse-mounted, straight cut sequential trans? Yeah, you'll see every ounce of a G25-660 helping you blow the doors off of whatever wants to run you, AND spool up like a MOFO down low with the right housing (meaning don't choke it with too small a housing).
@@Drunken_Hamster I have to disagree - air flow is measured in lb/min according to most compressor maps. The closest X10 measurement which is an industry standard in turbine mapping will generate 100HP per 10lb/min of air flow - your engine can either use it or not - if it cannot, you will not make as much power as the next engine that might be able to use the flow in a better way.
Having said this - just because your engine can 'use' the air flow, does not affect the fact that 10lb/min of air flow (X10) will produce 100HP - the compressor maps are fact, based on testing on gas stands and the results are printed - the G-series turbochargers do not perform as advertised, and if you are seeing big numbers, try a different dyno, and you might be surprised. We have measured HP and air inlet flow using flow meters from Superflow on our engine dyno and we have verified both air flow inlet to the compressor and the HP output from the engine as married to X10 perfectly - no corrections.
@@TurboDirectSA Was this test being done at Denel Last April? I was at your showroom and heard the dyno running inside.
@@siyabandasekho6851 This was Bruno's engine - i heard about this at Midvaal, they changed the turbo to one of Turbo direct ones and it outperformed the G35 that was on there not sure of the numbers though.
Hi I have 2 projects I been working on and always used garrets my first question is
1: I’m doing a built motor (cla 45 amg )2.0l 4cyl dct 7 speed awd
I was told to use 3076r as upgrade turbo
But instead I’m doing a custom exhaust manifold I was gonna go g30-900 I’m tryna hit 780--840whp I want a turbo that won’t be too laggy giving it’s a 2.0l motor but still can hit hard 2800-3400
Project :2 :I currently have a hellion twin turbo hellcat
6.2l v8 motor fully built stock heads just upgraded pushrods,beehive springs and lifters mds deleate,
I have the garret gtx3582r gen2 turbos on it now the car made 1200 whp on 25 psi and built to go 31-33psi
I think it’s a 1.01 ar or 83 not sure it’s the kit from there site
The car pulls hard but since it’s not a stroke426 it tends to be lazy down low anyway below 4300-4500 I want to know if I switch to a g35-900 would that be better. Or should I use a different a.r housing first ?
I know gtx3582r is a 66/68 basically any help would be appreciated on these projects
The hellcat is a fully forged motor turbo cam and built transmission
The cla 45 amg will stay 2.0 4cyl forged bottom end. Single mount system will be street raced /roll race events
Thanks for the comment - happy to help and offer our opinions and experience. The G30-900 will not see close to 900HP at the crank let alone at the wheels - dont bother. We have experience with this engine with a closed circuit track car in South Africa, which makes 340-360WKW at around 1.6-1.8bar boost - running an EFR7163 Vband AR85 turbine housing and internally gated. The turbocharger spools as quick as the stock unit and makes over 150WKW more power at the same boost. The EGT's are lower than stock, the water temps are lower and the drive-ability of the engine at low boost street driving is unmatched. The car had two previous turbos on, one was a bolt on kinugawa (paper weight) which was a copy of the Garrett GTX3076R and was laggy and made no real power. Then there was a Genuine Garrett G25-660, which spooled faster than the chinese paper weight, but didn't make close to the claimed 660HP - the EFR7163 is claimed to make 550HP, but the compressor maps shows closer to 600HP and the turbo delivers exactly what it claims on paper. This car should use the latest EFR8370 - this is the same turbine stage as the EFR7670 (650HP capable on paper) yet with a better compressor stage, and is now claimed (on paper) to produce 750HP, but the compressor maps tell a different story - showing closer to 800HP capable. This will spool as fast if not faster than any G30, and will definitely deliver the goods, and save you money at the same time.
Regards to the Hellcat - thats easy - change to the AR8 turbine housings, (thats IF you have the AR1.01's on currently) that will solve your problem, if you have the AR83's on now, then change to the AR61's - you will cut off slightly up top (20-25HP loss due to back pressure) but low down you will gain plenty.
I have a fully built EJ257 im looking for a street car that i can take to the track once a month during summer. Would the G35 or the G30 be the better option? I'm looking for at least 700 whp.
That kind of HP will require the larger turbo for sure. However with HP comes lag - keep that in mind
Can u do a full run through of the Garrett GTX 3076 gen 2 please
Sure - what is it that you are looking to learn from this turbo?
@@TurboDirectSAwell I'm hoping to use this turbo on a Subaru WRX so i really wanted to know the Specs of this turbo ,compressor map efficiency, maybe a comparison between this turbo and the G30 770 seeing that they both reach similar Hp numbers even tho I know the G30 is better. Also what areas would the GTX thrive in
@@Thomascruz10Ill do this for you ASAP - for now though, you might be surprised to know that the G-series is NOT better than the proven GTX Gen2 turbos - look at the compressor map alone and then compare this to the power claimed in the Garret printed catalogues, and you will see that the G-series turbos are overrated and definately will not perform as you might expect them to. I would opt for the GTX Gen2 over the g-series every time.
Any experience with these on a evo x with a 2.2L stroker? Looking for 700-750hp.
Not personally, but a client of mine shared info on this build before changing to one of our TurboDirect S.A Forged turbochargers. The turbo replaced was the G35-900 and the power was lower than expected at the boost pressure that they were running.
The change to this turbo showed an increase in power while maintaining the same response, bringing the power band into line with their requirements. Lower boost pressure with more power.
turbodirect.co.za/store/index.php/shop/turbochargers/gtx3582r-forged-detail
Hi Chris. I'm running bmw n54 and I am looking at these two turbos. I want to be capable of making 750wheel at the 7krpm redline on around 28-32 lbs of boost, e40 fuel. My question is will the g30 900 be able to make this power goal without falling off at high rpm, or should I go for the g35. It is going to be mostly a street car with some half mile roll racing.
TS - excellent question and with the technology out there today and options in terms of turbine housing AR's - there is alot to choose from - What i decided to do is make a video to answer your question and cover a few more of the comments and concerns from the subscribers related to the same topic. This will be uploaded in this coming week.
@@TurboDirectSA awesome thank you so much! could you also compare both turbos to the 3582r? I'm especially curious to see if the g30-900 has enough potential to compete with the 3582 despite the smaller housing. Currently n54 turbo kits only have t4 flanges so to use a new gen turbo, i would have to go to the g30-900 as I don't believe g35-900's come in t4
@@TS-jq9ex We shot the video yesterday - i will upload this in the coming week. The GT3582R is discontinued, the bearing system is old, and the compressor design is from the late 90's -- i wouldn't compare this to the newer designs/models.
@@TurboDirectSA I mean the gtx gen II 3582r sorry. I should have typed out the full name. I’ll be tuning into the video for sure!
@@TS-jq9ex Id suggest you wait and watch the video -- it will be uploaded soon.
After looking at this video, several other videos, the comment sections of a few of your videos, talking to several tuners, and talking to friends that have turbo S2000s, I feel a bit conflicted as to what I would throw on my car now. (most likely due to my lack of knowledge in turbocharging) I've had very conflicting answers regarding turbo selection for an F20C motor, some people saying a GT30 sized turbine running out of steam in the top end (7500RPM+) because the head is flowing more than the turbine can flow, and then the GT35 sized turbines making far better power for equal spooling (a case of the GTX3076r [mismatch] vs a GTX3576r).
One instance I talked to an S2000 owner that used a G25-550 .92A/R, and he switched to 660 compressor housing due to some compressor surge.
Another recommended a GTX3582R .82A/R to take advantage of the F20C stock head flow, as the car is already fairly gutless under 5000RPM. This leads me to think that the G35-900 would be a good match for the car but I'm not so sure now.
I understand that running a larger turbo at lower pressures would put it outside of it efficiency islands possibly.
Right now the car is a bit in of an identity crisis where its edging from a weekend warrior street car to a circuit car that's not very practical on the street, and trying to get the car to perform both roles that I find satisfactory.
I'm leaning on sacrificing the street drivability of the car to allow for better headroom (more headroom is always better right?).
Thanks for the comment - let me shed some light on this for you. We have a number of clients who run these S2000's here and i have built and supplied a number of different turbos on these engines.
1) They are high flowing indeed -
2) power drops off with the smaller GT30 family size turbos, even with larger AR turbine housings
3) Low down response with the older Garrett style turbos is almost impossible WHILE TRYING TO BALANCE HIGH RPM FLOW
We have build Journal bearing T4 setups with the 60-1 compressor wheel and 446905-0501 turbine wheel using the AR63 T3inlet and 4bolt outlet race style housing from Garrett - it works well, but low down is miniscule.
Then the GT3582R (not GTX) using AR63 turbine housing - better low down, and similar HP up top to the 60-1 compressor - but not thaaaaaat great for street.
The best low down response with a massive 950HP capable option is by far the EFR8474Black series - using the AR83 turbine housing will blow any of the G-series turbos out the water in response aswell as outright power delivery. The internal gate is superior and will save you alot of money and plumbing under the hood aswell.
@@TurboDirectSA This is super awesome information, while drafting the comment I completely forgot about the EFR black series. This helps a ton, thank you for quick response, much love!
@@Temtac Pleasure buddy -- we just tested an EFR8474 Black on a fully built RB26DETT hill climb car with the AR92 turbine housing, and it spooled too fast, 3500RPM was already pushing into the seat - and the engine is build for 1300HP and lives at 10000rpm, we now replacing with the larger AR1.05 housing - we want the power later in the RPM range -
Chris i have also question about the choice right turbo setup. I have Skyline with RB26 engine 2.6L with peak 8400rpm so high rpm and high pressure. I should go with G30-770 0.83/1.01 or G30-900 1.01? My goal is 580-620whp on 93.
SnaraGTR What boost pressure are you intending to run? What Fuel and what application ? (Application - meaning drift, drag, steerable, circuit racer etc?)
@@TurboDirectSA About 26-28psi. Fuel premium gasoline ron98 without meth. Car is only used on fast street or highways. No track/drift.
@@Snaraa You need to use the G30-900 with AR83 turbine housing - the 71mm exducer on the G30-770 is going to be too small to make this power hold throughout your high revving engine. The G30-900 uses a 76mm exducer compressor and will spool more than responsive enough and make the power you want without having to push the turbo too hard, or running too much boost pressure. This will make for a more reliable motor and turbo combination and slightly lower boost to achieve that power you want. I would also consider the BorgWarner options, the GAMMA TI turbines are extremely light weight and spool extremely fast with seriously high flow compressors. The quality and longevity of the Borg's are actually better than the Garrett counterparts due to the lower weight that the ball bearing cartridge is carrying.
@@TurboDirectSA Thanks ✌️ I am very grateful to you. I think efr8374 with 74mm exhaust will be more laggy and have worse response than g30 with 60mm exhaust 🤔 but maybe some one compare both turbos.
@@Snaraa No buddy you wrong - the EFR8374 turbine weighs less than the G30 turbine head, spool will be much of a muchness, however the lightweight rotating assembly will last forever.
Hello, I have a question for you. I have a Golf 7.5 R 2.0 4cyl and I would like to increase its power around 650-700hp, without having to ride methanol. I'm between two of these turbos: Xona 7864s / Garret g30-770 / Garret g30-900. And what A/r?
I would like it to have the greatest power I want to approach by having as little lag as possible. The car will be for daily use, but I want to boost it.
Thank you.
Don't bother with the Garrett units, they are not able to produce the claimed power. You will have to run extremely high boost permanently to squeeze out 700HP from the G30-900. The best option for this power target and that motor is the EFR8370 without a doubt, it will produce the power and spool faster than any other turbo, and cost you less at the end of the day.
@@TurboDirectSA lots of thanks for the response
@@davis6383 Pleasure !
which one is quicker spoon up?
G30-900 will spool faster for sure, the turbine side is smaller.
Chris my question is and allways been the same from the day GTX3582 and GTX3576 came around.
What about the .63 + 35 wheel vs the .82 + 30 wheel. There we have the same turbine flow and compressor flow.
Lets say we have a low rpm - high boost requiring engine vs a high rpm - low boost requiring engine to make the same hp what tubine wheel + turbine housing combo goes were? I know its a difficult question but it deffinately has an answer.
Thanks
I'm interested in your response to this question too. I also have a question of my own. How do you feel the g35-900 would respond compared to a gtx3582r both in 0.82 housings?
Abec777 Hondatech - its simple buddy, low RPM high boost requires higher backpressure in the turbine (smaller AR and smaller turbine) the high RPM low boost setup need a few tricks to make sure it pulls and makes power throughout the entire RPM range - So lets say you want 0.5 - 0.7bar gauge pressure on a high revving engine, that is not critical in terms of the boost response - you would use the larger AR turbine (you want the power to hold up top of the engines RPM and not fall away) and you would choose a larger diameter compressor being the 35... BUT because you running low boost, power will naturally fall away up top because the flow from the turbochargers compressor eventually isnt enough to keep up with the engines air flow demand (obviously this changes with every engine, you would need to resort back to plotting the compressor as per my previous video) SO - as you get to the engines RPM where the power and/or torque starts to fall off, you increase boost pressure say from 0.5bar gauge to 0.7bar gauge around 200-300RPM before that point, and this usually lifts that curve back up again and carries further n the engines RPM band.
@@TurboDirectSA Thank you for your answer altho i missled you with my writing:
-Engine 1 is a 2.0L/9700rpm than can hit 600hp at 25 psi. (typical Honda engine).
-Engine 2 is a 2.0L 8200rpm that can hit 600hp at 35 psi (typical VW/audi engine).
The GTX/G35 "76" with .63 a/r and the GTX/G30 "76" with .82 a/r flow the same lbs/min on the turbine side AND have the same compressor wheel.
What turbo would be used at what engine.
Again thanks!
on a vtec b16 81.5mm engine with 10+ cr which turbo would be the best to hit 600-700hp? i bought G30-770 reverse rotation on 61 a/r .
@@abec666 Buddy ill have to sit down and make up a video for you and ill post it on a private link and send it to you.
What’s the difference between the g35 900 vs 6466 for an Sti?
The Precision turbo uses a larger rotating assembly on both sides - but the precision will make the claimed power - the Garrett will not make the claimed 900HP -
Another option which makes the power and will easily outspool both these turbos is the EFR8474 Black.
Hello
I have question please
If I add single g30-900 on 2jz pistons 86.5, there is any problem or back pressure?
What HP target are you planning on going for? The higher the HP, the higher the boost pressure, at a specific point you will find that backpressure might become a problem, and a large AR turbine housing would be required.
From 600 to 700 hp or what is the max hp I can get it without back pressure
@@carwowsa You will need to run a turbo that is capable of more power than what you want to reach, in order to keep things reliable, and not have to run the turbo to its max all the time. Choosing the correct turbine housing AR is key.
I would opt for the EFR8370 without a doubt, this will give you the best response aswell as power output. It is much more reliable than the Garrett G-series turbocharger range, and will make the claimed power without a doubt.
Which one would you choose for a twin turbo LS 7.0L set up? The compressor maps say both would work very well in this application-10-12 psi Miata swap. thank you sir.
Both compressors are identical - the turbine is whats different here. I would actually use the larger 35 family, as the 30 will spool up from just above idle and run out of steam from mid RPM - the turbine is too small for this CID engine.
The 35's with the larger AR1.01 turbine housing on both sides will work great.
If you prefer a more reliable and better performing setup, i would definitely route EFR8474 Black Series on both sides with the AR83 turbine housing, IWG - this will be a dynamite setup for jst under 2000HP capable. For less power, obviously turn down boost -- on 0.5-0.7bar boost you can expect to see upwards of 600HP with the EFR options.
@@TurboDirectSA Thanks so much! This crate engine is already rated at 600HP. The compressor map does show it will flow enough for 10-15psi. How do you apply the Garrett turbine flow charts to A/R housing decision? I use the BW turbo selector program and it shows that a .92/g30-900 would be right on the edge as far as exhaust flow and the G35-900/.83 would be the ticket as well. Targeting response over total power in this app. (street)Thanks again!
@@Dodgevair Pleasure Dodge. Careful now -- the engine if rated at 600HP already consumes 60lb/min of air flow ---- I assume this is in turbocharged format? Which turbo...... ?
If an engine consumes 10lb/min of air flow, it is expected to be able to produce 100HP at the crank. The engines VE is critical to the choice of the correct turbo. If the turbo flows less than the engine can consume, you arent going to see much improvement at all. If the engine produces 600HP in NA format, youll need a much larger turbo to feed it sufficient air flow to produce more than this power output.
@@TurboDirectSA Yes, it is an LS 7.0 crate motor rated at 600HP. Not sure how accurate that is.. Another engine under consideration is a similar GM crate motor...6.2L 525HP. How do you apply the Garrett turbine flow charts to A/R housing decision? I use the BW turbo selector program (BorgWarner's Match Bot) and it shows that a .92/g30-900 would be right on the edge as far as exhaust flow and the G35-900/.83 would be the ticket as well. This is done by enterering the VE as 105%. Perhaps the percentage should be increased? Targeting response over total power is the desired outcome. (street)Thanks again!
@@Dodgevair These are big CID engines, and they flow a considerable amount for an NA motor - i would consider the EFR8474 Black series on both engines with AR83 turbine housings.
The other options are here:- store.turbodirect.co.za/index.php/shop/turbochargers/g3582r2-forged-detail -
We have these running on 4cyl, 6cyl and some V8 Lexus 1UZ and 3UZ engines with excellent results. Faster spool than Garrett's G35, and power that surprised many tuners when comparing to Garrett's G-series models, and for alot less money.
Hi Chris. Going to be putting the G30-900 on to my RB25det with the 6boost and 50mm gate etc.. will they G30-900 be very responsive at 400rwkw and what kind of NM will it achieve?
Thanks
What do you intend boosting?
Chris Kambouris probably boost will be set to around 17 to 20psi
@@Rxtx_325 that's not very high boost, don't expect too much from this turbo at that boost. If you don't plan on using any higher boost than that, and don't plan on producing 900HP - then i would seriously consider the 30-660 or G30-770 - in fact the EFR series would suit that motor extremely well too - faster spool than most if the same size Garrett units - due to the GAMMA TI turbine wheel. I say this because the RB25 is relatively lazy in spooling a larger turbo up - its nothing like the RB26 motor
Chris Kambouris what boost level should I take it to you think.
The G30-900 is that a similar sized turbo to the gtx3582r gen2.
To compare too.
@@Rxtx_325 This all depends on what power you want to make - whenever a client calls us for advise on a turbo choice, the first thing we ask is "What HP target are you looking for?" Once we know this, the rest is made a little easier to calculate
Will the GTX3576r Gen 2 reach 700whp on a honda s2000? .82 housing vband
It will battle - especially in the higher RPM range where the Honda's like to rev. Rather use the larger compressor on the GTX3582R Gen2 - this will spool the same but make a higher power output compared to the small 76mm compressor, and allow you to run less boost and make the same power, making the engines life more reliable.
@@TurboDirectSA dang already bought my 3576. I heard the 82 is infact laggier. Idk people have been telling me its a 700whp capable turbo so im optimistic.
@@maxsorin4167 Dont stress, when you install and tune, and if you experience the graph falling away early in the RPM range, increase the boost pressure around 200RPM before this occurs to lift the curve some. If this is not satisfactory, let me know, i might have an 82mm compressor wheel for you to upgrade to.
@@TurboDirectSA I will be tuning either april 23 or april 30. Will get back to you then. Is there another way to contact you other than youtube comments?
@@maxsorin4167 yeah shoot me a mail chris@turbodirect.co.za
Hi Chris, what will be te best the G35-900 or G30-900 on a 2.0L 20v... thanks in advance
What HP target Eduan?
Hi Chris 750whp
@@eduanwessels4292 These turbos don't make the claimed power by a long shot. The most we have seen on a 2.0 multivalve 4 cylinder engine is 720HP at the crank. You will not see 750WHP with the G-series 30 or 35-900. The compressor map will reveal a better idea of what you can expect to make with these turbos.
The EFR8474 is a much better option by far, it makes the power first of all, and the features of the EFR series are untouchable compared to the Garrett range. The bearing housing is available in aluminium, the cooling port design is far larger and superior to Garrett, the rotating assemblies rotate alot slower to make more power, and the internally gated options with swing valves up to 42mm in diameter are something Garrett cannot compete with at all. First hand experience with the EFR series and the 8474 Black, specifically, opened alot of our eyes.
Thank you Chris, with the EFR 8474 black is it better to use the twinscroll and what exhaust housing will be the best to use? I know they said you can blank the EFR turbo to make it a external wastegate if you still want to go twinscroll. Just want to know what you think will be the best for the 2.0 20v to make 750whp.
@@eduanwessels4292 You should use the AR82 housing - i wouldn't use external gate at all, it will create lag especially with smaller size engines. The swing valve on this turbo is 42mm (42mm wastegate built into the turbine housing) Shoot us an email info@turbodirect.co.za i will get a video to you showing you the response of this turbo and a 9sec run in an RB26DETT at 1.7bar gauge pressure.
How do these turbos compare to the older Garrett T04z turbo?
T04Z was a great turbo in its day, but the turbo was big and used outdated turbine blade design - it worked well for the "in between size" turbo where you wanted more than the GT3582R (only 675HP option available in a fast spooling offering) and the sometimes too large GT4094R - the T04Z came between these two turbos as a possible solution, BUT was laggy and when compared to the GT4094R later on (after everyone overcame their fears of trying it - and obvious financial outlay) the GT4094R came into its own and made its name - its still today a DYNAMITE turbo.
@@TurboDirectSA thanks for the info. The T04Z was recommended to a friend that's building an rb25det with cams,pistons, etc for his street 240Z. What turbo would you recommend for 600whp? G30-900 or G35-900? I recommended should go with the G35-900 with .83 exhaust housing.
@@rickh5698 WAAYYYY too laggy! I would opt for the GTX3071R setup - the RB25 is a lazy engine and will NEVER spool a T04Z up inside of 5000RPM!
@@TurboDirectSA I've seen a video of an rb25det with gtx3071 and it would loose traction easily when the turbo kicks in. How about a G30-770 or G30-900 instead of the gtx3071r?
@@rickh5698 Change the cars setup if response is too fast for you. Also change the AR to a larger one on the turbine housing, this will also delay the power curve. You the first person who has complained about response... :-)
The G-series are overrated for the money -and will spool similarly to the GX Gen2 series.
First of all, the G30-900 turbo will NOT do 900hp, (just think of 900hp flow through a +2' pipe in hot turbine including 9 blades. Not gonna happen! (all marketing)
2) ratings are these days on high nasa rocket octant fuel (all marketing), other program uses correct pump gas as lbs calculation, so dont compare rocket fuel with pump gas
3) these turbos are clipped on both compressor exducer and turbine inducer to harvest top end only. All mid-range flow are gone in favor of higher shaft speed. They typical demand 15K more shaft speed to same pressure ratio compared to old program. Now, consider what it converts to of engine rpm on a drift car before jumping on board
Thanks for the comments - the new Garrett products are overrated without a doubt - both in reality and on paper.
alberto was running a g35-900 and he def hit over 800whp using 1.01A/R and he never used the spare 1.21 A/R. he also was on race e85 and had Bc 272 Cams. with larger housing i’m not sure what it would have made. 808whp equates to either 900bhp or close to it.
@@bigjdm5460 G35-900 is not a G30-900, and still they are rated at same peak power. You will not get a G30-900 near 900hp with that tiny diameter turbine wheel. Think of it, why- and how would you force 900hp exhaust gas through a tiny 2' diameter with 9 blades and a shaft inside. Not gonna happen unless you are sitting in Marketing making the advertising
@@205CTT damn, thanks. i def thought he said G35. i usually dnt mistake them as i already know the G30 turbine side shares it’s dimensions with the G30-770.
@@205CTTwait, if u guys are saying the 900 is all marketing but it’s proof out there the g35-900 with biggest a/R e85 and cams can def make 870whp. Then we can assume a 2.5L or 2.0L with few mods and fuel can get close with g30. I’m listening to u guys then I’m seeing dyno runs saying otherwise. Smh
wheres the proof and the comparison of the 0.83 vs 1.01 AR? I didn't learn anything from this video.
AR housings were not discussed and not part of the video - the video is comparing two turbochargers side by side. If you want dyno tests side by side - you'll have to be patient.
Which would you recommend for a street twin turbo 6.0 LS at 10 psi (6500 rpm)? I’m thinking the G35. What A/R for quick response, but with acceptable back pressure?
I would look at the BorgWarner S300SXE- twin turbo setups using these will make more power, last longer, cost less and spool beautifully for a street application and then some.
The 13009097008 is an 875HP capable turbo (True 875HP) and uses the smaller turbine wheel - together with the AR.91 twin scroll T4 housing you wont go wrong.
@@TurboDirectSA Thank you. I had actually looked at those. I was just afraid they were overkill for my application. I know the 1.8 pressure ratio and 35-40 lb/min each fits well in the best efficiency island though (I don’t “need” turbos good for 1700 HP). I am a little limited on space so had been looking at smaller turbos, but these may be similar in size to the smaller 58mm or 62mm compressor ones.
@@general23cmp Dont worry about the capability of the turbochargers added together - the size and match works 100% for your specific engine - The G35 will produce more power than these turbos if you go by the claimed power that Garrett claims on their catalogue.
The response, efficiency and the fact that you will make enormous power if you choose to increase boost is something you have in reserve. The turbos will make more than enough boost even at 7PSI which is something that a streetable setup should run with twins.
What you dont want is two small turbochargers that spool too fast and generate wheel spin at 2000RPM, the car becomes a handful to control. What you want is something linear - responsive and easy to drive with more than enough power reserves should you choose to go there.
Small turbos generate alot of heat as they typically run alot faster in rotational RPM.
@@TurboDirectSA Thank you so much Sir.
@@general23cmp My pleasure - hope it helped.
Hey what's the size difference from the g30-770 to the g30-900? I had a custom exhaust manifold made up for my car but the manifold was built to the g30-770 I'll have some room but I can figure out how much larger the g30900.
G30-770 is 58 mm and g30-900 is 62mm