BorgWarner Airwerks S200SXE versus Garrett G30-660 and G30-770
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- čas přidán 1. 03. 2021
- One of subscribers by the name of Johnny Grills - requested a comparison between the G30-660 and the S200SXE - here you go, with the obvious addition of the G30-770 side by side - Enjoy.
S200SXE review- here:- • BorgWarner Airwerks S2... - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I used an S257sxe t4 .82 twin scroll on a 2JZ , had full boost at 3600 and the boost recovery between gears even short shifting was ridiculous and you could easily spin the tires up through 5th gear. Even 5th gear by accident just flooring it to pass a truck
Far better than any comparative Garrett G-series for half the money.
Seriously love the content you proceed. I've learned so much from you.
Thank you for the compliment it means alot to us. Glad you enjoying the content.
Thanks for the video, really appreciate you going into all that detail regarding them turbo's.
Pleasure Johnny
Fantastic video! Love a good BW-HG head-to-head.
Thanks for your great videos, I learned a lot.
Pleasure sir - Glad you enjoying them!
It still looks like the sxe range is the bang per buck choice, subscribed & notifications on waiting for the 1j vids
Thank you guys for all this infomation. Its helped alot.
Its my pleasure sir!
Thankyou for going into compressor maps, i didn't know they included earths atmosphere.
Very good that you listen and do what subscribers says and want.
Keep doing that guys you'll blow out the entire internet.
No kidding!
Do you ship internationally?
Thanks for the comment - sure we do.
Very useful, Chris, thank you!
Pleasure buddy
Just scored my G25 660! So excited
This is the information I was after on choice of turbos .. perfect information ..
Thanks for the compliment - glad i could help you.
thank you so much!
Fantastic description... A++
just what i needed. though i do wish the BW was also water cooled to extend the life of it. TY for this comparison i greatly appreciate it.
Thanks for the comment - much appreciated. Keep in mind that although the S200SXE might not be water cooled, this is still an extremely reliable turbo (more so than any Garrett water cooled Journal bearing setup by far) due to the fact that this bearing system is used primarily in stationery engines in underground industrial and mining setups and run at massive boost pressures permanently. Obviously the S200SXE uses a very different aero design wheel package to the stationery engine setup, but the bearing housing and components remain the same proven component list. You have nothing to worry about in reliability here.
This is why I am going 8474 over any Garrett in my R32 GTR. Awesome video Chris, as always! Keep up the great work!
Great choice - the 8474 is a loaded gun!
What made you go 8474 over 8374?
@@CarbageRacing For me, its the power above 5000 rpms. The 8374 is a little quicker for spool time, but as soon as you get above that 4500 rpms range, the 8474 is way better.
very informative! thank you for this. my bw s257sxe is enroute to me as we speak. going on a time attack car (s2000 with a twin scroll manifold), good to know im not giving up much of anything vs the g-series. a point i think that was overlooked on the comparison is serviceability. the borg can rather inexpensively be rebuilt while the garret will require a core exchange directly from garrett which is pretty expensive(more than the cost of a new borg). one thing i really struggled with was selecting the proper turbine housing for the s200sxe-57mm. there is many options available, they have there turbine matchbot program on the website and even after watching the tutorials was somewhat confusing. they also dont have many of the housings for the s200sxe listed on there matchbot. a video looking at selecting turbine housings or matching turbine housings to your particular engine would be fantastic. i scoured the internet and youtube and it seems its something there isnt much information out there on. thanks!
There isn't much info on this, because not many people know how to do this. There are secrets and other info that lies in this section of the turbocharger which i am also reluctant to share for specific reasons. Shoot me an email and i will assist you in choosing the right housing for your application. chris@turbodirect.co.za
Funny finding you here Scott! 😆 I was going to ask the same question. Except I'm on a single scroll (non divided) manifold and they only offer divided housings except one vendor offers a T4 open @ .84 AR. Any benefit to keeping the t3/t4 divided versus matching with my manifold of T4 undivided?
@@spoolys2k47 Thanks for the comment, you will see a benefit of using the seperated manifold design with the un-divided housing, should you decide later to use a divided housing, you will see a further benefit in spool and linear response compared to what you have now.
@@TurboDirectSA awesome, thank you for the insight! Excellent work on the videos, I've watched a few and all have been super informative.
@@spoolys2k47 Thanks alot - much appreciate the feedback
Before one word was spoken about the efficiency of either turbo, I had made up my mind by just looking at them and choose the shorter ones. I don't have the room for the length of the BW. I currently run a G25-660 in my Subaru powered VW bug and was thinking about upgrading to the G30-770 but man, I hate to give up the incredible response of the G25.
Thanks for the comments. If you like the response of the G25 - wait till you experience the 7163 -- it is chalk and cheese.
What rpm does boost start in your vw bug
@@seemaab I can’t tell you the exact rpm,
But it’s pretty immediate
Im thinking of getting a g30 770 with 1.06 t4 divided exhaust for a forged rb26. I am more interested on response but at the same time aiming for 650hp atw. Would a g30 770 be a perfect turbo setup?
Great informative video by the way.
Thank you for the compliment, glad you enjoying the content. The Garrett is the last turbo i would choose, especially the G-series. The G-series will never make the claimed power, see the compressor map. The turbine is laggy.
The BorgWarner range is far superior in spool, power delivery, peak power, cooling, reliability, features and price.
For that power i would choose the EFR7670 or the latest 8370 which is in essence an 800HP capable turbo. You will make this power and then some with the later. The spool will be quicker than the G30-770 and it will make the power claimed, and then some.
Hi Chris im torn between g25-660 and the s200sxe for 1.8t 20v large port head with supertech valvetrain, power goal is about 500ish to the crank. After watching your videos Im leaning towards the borgwarner. Would that be the correct choice? Thank you.
The two turbos are not in the same class or category - one is BB and the other is journal bearing - you need to compare the EFR7163 to the G25-660 - these are two matched turbochargers, and the EFR will outspool the G25 and make more power aswell. Costs are the same too - in fact slightly less for the EFR depending on where you purchase from
In terms of fitment , weight and power. Which one is better, the GT25-660 or the GT30-660
Different turbos for different goals - for sure.
But what I had to do when determining my situation was against the EFR series against the g30-660.
I overlayed the graphs with some color choices.
I did this because you need to plot 75% versus 75% for instance.
When you do this you'll see that the 660 compressor wheel at about 0.4 PSIG at 20#/min, all the way up to 2.6 PSIG at 50#/min.
It's nearly the entire range! Lol.
But in my opinion outside of the typical modern trend of running everything off the compressor map - the 660 is really a 550 IMHO, so the 57mm BW is obviously will make more.
But no the BW doesn't spool as fast I have direct comparison between my vehicle running the G-30 660 and that very BW S200.
Both awesome turbos, I'd buy either one.
My boost threshold is much earlier on my G30-660.
Does it make the car any faster? No probably not because I have more than one gear in the car. :)
But it's nice to be able to lug this car around at lower speed.
Truth be told that S200 has much more boost down low, but on the same.engine again hitting the same power requirements was similar to my GTX3584RS comparing logs.
Thanks Beau!
Which Borg did you compare to the G30-660?
What car did you install this on?
Great, i require much more education on turbos! Back in the sixties and 70s never had a turbo,lol
Came to say that ... when you are comparing one turbo at 79% efficiency to another at 75% you are not drawing any meaningful conclusions.
Hello turbo direct I love your videos they are so informative and I see you put a lot of time and effort in teaching compressor map turbo behavior, is it possible to do a comparison between the
garret gtw 3884r 6265 and tht precision 6266, and the Borg Warner equipment please. Not sure if it’s done already but I was looking but can t seem to find any. Thanks again and love the Videos, spending my Friday night binge watching your vids.
Im glad you are enjoying the videos sir - the precision turbos dont all have compressor maps im afraid. Ill be happy to do an outline with the maps next to eachother for you, but they just arent available.
Chris, a gentle reminder for a video I'd very much like to see if possible.
Full explanation of turbine flow plotting.
I haven't been able to find any real information on how to best use this plot TBH. Hoping you might be able to, get an actual full technical explanation on this.
The only thing I've found is an obviously wrong 2:1 ratio. Between compressor flow and exhaust flow #/min. No science or explanation I think people are just looking and you could almost invent that rule of thumb but it doesn't seem to be so.
For instance I've found on certain combinations the power going down going to a larger AR at any RPM, and I've seen it where people pick up 60 horse going from a .8x to 1.0x AR setup.
Buddy i hear you loud and clear, i haven't forgotten about this - but to be honest there are a number of secrets that lie in this side of the turbocharger, which firstly are complicated and not easily understood, but also where the "trick" lies in creating the control of the compressor on the other side of the turbocharger. Get the turbine wrong, and the compressor map is useless. The compressor side is simple in comparison. However i will touch on the subject based on the manufacturers maps/marketting info. At least this will help you some.
I want to see G30-770 vs S200 SX-R
I havent found SX-R anywhere to buy...
I love your vids. Can you make some comparisons with old "tank" holset HX35?
Thanks for the comment - the Holset HX35 and HX40 range is so vast its really not easy to compare as which one do we use for the comparison? The turbos are diesel industrial applications with no emphasis on performance or any kind of universal performance based applications.
@@TurboDirectSA Actually, in Europe they are really popular and cheap, I could say bulletproof in terms of durability and.
You can find hx40 for 600€ new which is 40% cheaper than any other turbo in same power bracket
We have them here too - very cheap, but you get what you pay for - @@lamazver -- these are not performance orientated turbochargers at all. They fit many old Euro 2-3 spec diesel engines. Yes man change compressor wheels etc - but the turbine stage is not efficient at all, very rudimentary designs. If you do a side by side comparison on a dyno and monitor fuel supply you will see that the HX series isnt very good compared to say a performance specific turbo with matched turbine and compressor.
@@TurboDirectSA actually you can buy ones that are offered as performance parts. Something like HX40 Super with 60/85 7blade splitter compressor and 74-64 10blade turbine.
I'm currently making compound turbo setup with hx40super and HE221W for audi b7...
@@lamazver And what relationship between the turbine and compressor has been tested? Turbine or compressor map? I can tell you that with Holset you will battle to get compressor maps because hey are created TOGETHER with a turbine shaft and housing combination. Most think a compressor map is simply just a flow map of the compressor wheel - the turbine shaft and housing is responsible for driving the compressor wheel - without the turbine side a compressor map is not possible. Just thumb sucking a compressor wheel with a size and number of blades means nothing - thats why i always say do a back to back comparison and you will see why the proper performance products will always outshine the 'spoeg en plak' plans that the 'turbo guys' out there attempt.
Anxious since I’m torn.
BW 8374 EFR vs PTE 6266/6466/6766
If possible.
That’ll help my year long decision
Or any other EFR turbo vs PTE on a 2JZGTE
Thanks for the comment - keep in mind that precision are not an OEM manufacturer, they also do not burst contain test/pass their housings - the product is manufactured in China, assembled in the USA, i have seen the factory first hand. BorgWarner have technology, designs and testing processes that are required to pass by law as an OEM manufacturer, which every turbo undergoes and passes. BorgWarner are much older and more experienced than Precision and the product is that much better in every way. The features packed into the product are unmatched (DV, Actuator, Swing valve diameter, Solenoid etc) The bearing system is also a cut above the rest, the turbine wheel materials are lighter and spools faster - its a no brainer really.
@@TurboDirectSA thanks for the reply and educating everyone reading this post. What turbo for Garrett would be comparable to a EFR 8374??
@@ESherbinFox The EFR8374 is the older version turbo that was spec'd at 750HP capable output with a 62x84mm compressor design. The replacement EFR8474 Black Series now using the identical turbine stage but with the 68x84 revised compressor and shunts out 950HP - i would use this to match up against the GTX3582R Gen2, G35-1050 (compressor map issues with Garrett) The EFR will outspool (Gamma TI turbine wheel) together with ingenious location for the internal swing valve, and really advanced bearing system
You'll be very surprised at the comparison. This in a new video coming soon.
@@TurboDirectSA perfect timing and info looking forward too it!!
@@ESherbinFox Glad i made it in time :-)
My G30-660 .83 ar just made 588whp/550wtq on my 2015 Subaru sti. It made 38psi at 4k rpm.
Great result thanks for sharing -
@@TurboDirectSA on E85
Great numbers. Which displacement and rpm range on the 2015 Subaru Sti?
@@dennisrobinson8008 it’s a 2.5 technically bored out to 99.7. Don’t know if that adds anything. Limiter set to 8k.
@@L2anger06 Thanks for the reply. Did you have the dyno graphs? I know with that "big" 2.5 it's coming in boost early and strong.
Hi there, thank you for this informative video.
I'm trying to decide which turbo to use for my 2023 wrx build with the new fa24dit motor (2.4L). I'm choosing between a g30-770 and g30-900. Car will be raced at the track occasionally but mainly a street car. I was advised to try and reduce backpressure as much as possible--would jumping to a g35 make any sense in my vehicle? Looking for 600-650whp on e85 as my final numbers. Thoughts? Thanks!
I wouldnt opt for the Garrett G-series, they are not what they advertise. For this power i would consider the EFR8370 which will outspool and outperform the Gseries turbochargers in the same 'advertised' HP category.
@@TurboDirectSA😮😮😮
Wow interesting insight! I’ve been going through your past videos (2-3 years old) regarding the g series and I was under the impression they were highly rated. Now I will need to do more due diligence.
Would you be able to elaborate a little more regarding “they are not as advetised” statement?
Thank you so much for your time and recommendation.
@@luvhcchris The power advertised do not marry up to the compressor maps - check the videos on this in the channel. In practise we have found the compressor map to be closer (not 100%) to the actual power you will see, and this is 15-20% less than the HP figure Garrett Advertise in their printed catalogues.
@@TurboDirectSAhello! Thank you so much for your time and elaborating. I will continue to watch more videos and learn.
Will take up your recommendation and try to work with the Recommended turbo😊
In terms of shaft speed care, what psi (or bar) do you recommend to work with G30-660? THanks a lot for help
This all depends on the application, engine, fuel used, intended boost/power output target etc.
Can you share more info on this?
@@TurboDirectSA Yes Sir: Im building Audi S3 8L for hillclimb. My aim is: 450-500hp reliable and as responsive as possible. On my research, people recommend G25-660 instead of G25-550 at this level of power. And they told me to take care about the shaft limits. I know Garrett recommend 165k rpm, so i dont know when im safe if i buy the G25-660? I want things safe as the budget is limited ! THanks a lot
@@burns985I would not choose the Garrett G-series at all, i wouldn't even consider it. Lean towards the EFR7163 with AR80 band turbine housing, this turbo will out spool and outperform the G25-660 by leaps and bounds, and its designed for racing and abuse. It is a much more sensible and cost effective solution by far.
@@TurboDirectSA Thank you so much for these informations Sir ! I really appreciate it 🥳
@@burns985 Happy to help.
Would you consider in future videos separately covering the Borg Warner S300SXE, S400SXE & S500SXE?
That i shall do for you Johnny - im waiting for Borg to deliver my S400SXE and then the 500i have on hand already.
@@TurboDirectSA That's fantastic, I love how your CZcams channel is gaining so much traction. I'm looking forward to your videos!
@@920400706 Thanks Johnny, much appreciated sir.
Hi mate I have an Jetta 2003 1,8t with a precision 5130 right now, planning on upgrading. Would you go with a g25-660 or g30-660 ? Spool time on the 5130 isn’t great (4-4,5k) and goal would be 450-500hp. Engine is 1,8t not stroker with head only exhaust valve and spring
Not that at there hp 1,8t tend to run 25psi
Or if you have any better turbo recommandation for this application
Thanks for the comment Maxime - there is most definitely a better turbo, more reliable and will outspool the G25 and make more power. The EFR7163 with the AR80 VBand turbine housing - this is by far a better product, at a better price point, and includes more features and bolt on products. The EFR is by far much more reliable than any G-series Garrett is --
A fair comparison with the G30s would had been the EFR7163
Agreed - ill shoot a video showing these two comparisons, eve though i have videos showing these turbos separately and not next to eachother.
Can I have a contact to buy the no s200sxe on Johannesburg?
Always wildly informative but i am some what confused. Am i on the right track thinking that twin borgs on my 3.5 ecobeast basically will get me out of the hole and keep all the top end there is just as quickly as the garret dual bearing models?
Which Borg's are you referring to? The larger the turbos, the more power, higher in the RPM range, but more lag.
@@TurboDirectSA My application ultimately is Is daily driver/street drag
@@TurboDirectSA I guess I should've finished that I have a tune in place at the moment that has taken some of the power out of 1st gear and put it on top, that little eco boost is pulling as hard at going into a 120 as it is at 75 which is good but naturally I'm looking for more than I can hold on to
@@TurboDirectSA I'm sorry I've been watching your videos pretty much non stop it was the Borg that topped about 7:00 horse power maybe 750 which is what I'm looking to build
I must say further I've never seen anyone delve into the turbos with your expertise. The maps are wonderful things that again I've never seen and i ran turbo diesels from back when ford put the 7.3 turbos into the 3quarter and 1 ton pickups back in the 90s.ive been running the ecoboosts since 2012. It is absolutely amazing what you can get out of these 3.5 Even without changing the turbos but changing the turbos takes you to d*** near Drag racers
Stuck between BW 366sxe and g30-900 for rb26. Need respond running 264cams with 92oct fuel
The S300 is far from a direct comparison - you should be comparing the EFR7670 to the G30-900, and you will find the two producing similar power and the spool characteristics will be very similar too. What HP target do you have in mind, this also effects the final choice.
@@TurboDirectSA Aren't the 7670 and s257sxe pretty much the same size
@@Jamxknife They are similar, but there are some very differentiating components, i would say that the only similar component is the compressor wheel.
Can you do precision 6266 CEA journal Bearing. Entry precision and the Borg SXE 300 all comparable in size and journal bearing?
I have repaired and upgraded the precision turbos in the past and i have also visited the manufacturer in person in 2010 for the first time, and seen where these products were manufactured, at least the turbine shaft, bearing housings, turbine housings and comp housings - its in China, and to be honest nothing to write home about.
The comparison would require me to purchase one of these turbos, which im not prepared to do im afraid - Apologies
@@TurboDirectSA all good figured id ask. Thanks for the reply love learning about the different turbos you have
@@apexvisiontv Thanks for the comments - much appreciated
That was is 2010... their quality has since been much improved@@TurboDirectSA . I suggest continual videos on performance regardless of what you saw over a decade ago.
Every company has the right to improve and shift for the better.
@@mushasho Read my comment carefully sir - you might be enlightened. Youll notice a string of words i used "for the first time" --- which means it was not the last .... the rest is self explanatory.
Always borgwarner,
If the turbo has water ports, is water cooling required or optional?
ALWAYS use water cooling if the turbo is designed with it - why would you not use water cooling in your engine?? Since its oil cooled and has water ports...... silly comparison i know, but exactly the same.
@@TurboDirectSA Proximaty to water. Remote mounting.
@@general23cmp Always use Water when water ports are part of the bearing housing design, it will save you money and a turbo. The first part of the turbocharger to fail with a thermal overload is the bearing system.
Thinking in getting the G30-770
If you planning on expecting 700HP + from the turbo, then id suggest you think twice. Up to 650HP the turbo will fare, more than this, you will be disappointed.
@@TurboDirectSA my goals for the moment is to hit 500 to 575, with room to 600hp. Car is 2015 STi
@@TheE3R You going to run this turbo at high boost to make that power. There are are better alternatives which will make that power easily and reliably without breaking the bank.
@@TurboDirectSA what option would that be?
@@TheE3R S200SXE - this turbo will perform according to the claimed power. The compressor map is also not over-spec'd - if you want the correct flow/performance from the G30-770 divide 770 by 12 - this is a realistic figure.
Next is the EFR7670 which costs less than the Garrett turbo because it includes all the components you need for a direct installation. No external gate required, no BOV, and no boost control Solenoid - these components cost alot of money over and above the turbo, which is similarly priced to the EFR7670 which already includes these components.
Do billet compressor housing improve anything or is it just pretty
Billet housings will offer no benefit over a casting, as long as the casting is accurate. Aesthetics will obviously be better with anything machined from a billet.
@@TurboDirectSA great info thanks
@@tadman3d Its my pleasure - glad you enjoying the content
Please do comparison on pulsar vs Garrett g25 or g30
We do not get these turbos in country, and i wouldnt be prepared to spend money on copied product to be honest,.
@@TurboDirectSA send them an email, I’m sure they’d be open to the idea.
I would prefer Garrett personally but the quality & flexibility in specs of the pulsar’s seem to be a good way to go now.
Thought you’d be a good critic for quality and would make a good video as there seems to be a trend in Aus with Ford barra engines
@@kersa1995 Thanks mate - its a good idea, and i honestly don't mind doing reviews and comparisons, just always note that i am unbiased always. I dont care which product name the component holds. I will point out the obvious and i will go into detail in various areas and do direct comparisons.
If the product is good, its good. If its not, ill identify and mention it. Ill substantiate the flaws aswell as the strengths on either side.
If Pulsar want a comparison or side by side test and they brave enough, let them send a turbo over and ill be happy to do the comparisons.
they have the S200SX-R now.
You didn't compare the G3-770 compressor map. I discussed it last video comments, though.
I did not discuss the 770 compressor you right, this is not apples with apples, this is why i never did so. The other two are advertised in the same HP range, hense the comparison on those.
Can you do a borgwarner s369 turbo pls
Yes sir- will do in the near future.
my turbo project will be ready soon
bmw e30 m20b25 2.5 forged bottom end with borgwarner s252 sxe t3 .83 ar Agp housing
i will run it with 98 pump gas and methanol
how much you think will produce this turbo on my set up ?
Nice project - depending on the compression, tuning, boost, hardware supporting mods, dyno, etc you should see 500HP easily.
@@TurboDirectSA thanks
from my research the s252 sxe will boost and accelerate faster than the s257 ,will not have the top end power of 257 but will be the perfect street use
@@bmwe-op4jx I disagree, there will be negligible difference between the two turbos on that engine. Especially for street use with a separated manifold.
@@TurboDirectSA so both turbo will perform great ?
@@bmwe-op4jx Correct - i would opt for the 650HP S200SXE - youll have some power in reserve if 650HP is not your target. This will generate less heat, and offer better reliability in the long run.
How can a 59lb/min turbo produce 660hp? did they multiply lb/mn x11 on those G series?
This is the point - Garrett G-series turbochargers are overrated by between 15-20% in comparison to what they actually produce in reality. For the money its most certainly not aa worthwhile purchase compared to other more affordable products that deliver the goods.
Way less than half the price current market. Plus you'll save money not having to run water cooling. Still blows me away what Borg Warner does.
Borg has tested and proven these turbochargers' bearing systems over many years on other applications that run massive boost permanently. They are FAR superior to Garrett or Precision by leaps and bounds!
@@TurboDirectSA 💪💪
Well done. Not many dare to speak the truth about the G-series. Just look at the air flow capasity compared to claimed horsepower capability. On what engine will a G30-770 turbocharger support 770 hp? You obviously can not boost it very hard. I think it is mostly plain bragging and customers WILL find the truth.
I was disappointed by my Mexican made G30-660's quality versus my Japanese made GTX3584RS.
The G30-660 needed to be broken it honestly. But it turned out to be a sweet turbo, trick is to size it properly which Chris does such a good job with
Facts are Facts - we dont hide facts for the sake of agencies - we speak fact whether Garrett or any other manufacturer likes it or not.
@@TurboDirectSA a distributor that's out for the client and not for their hardened contract with supplier is very much welcome!
@@Christdeliverme Thats not what some manufacturers believe - but i believe in hard cold factual information that benefits the money train that any manufacturer relies on - you the client.
g25-660vs vs Borg 200 airworks and efr. Lets keep it in the same family size to be fair to Borg._.
The G25-660 shares the same compressor map as the G30-660
Excellent presentation but.... I should tell our friend that the G30-660 and the Borg Warner S200SXE are hardly comparable. A fair comparison should had been between the S200SXE and the GT3582 or the GTX3576....
I disagree, the GTX3576R is a much higher HP capable turbo. The GT3582R is outdated and not sold much anymore. The comparison is not a fair comparison at all, it was requested by a subscriber, however HP bracket the Borg is in the same area as the two G30's
@@chriskambouris861 the GT3582 maybe old but still 1) flows more than the S200SXE 2) is more expensive. The GTX3576s 11 or 8 blade, are much more expensive than the S200SXE, even the 11 blade. So what could be the more fair comparison? The point is that the S200SXE is (at least commercially) targeting directly at the generic T3/T4 market, as a worthy successor, so as such who are its competitors? I would say the GTW3476, PTE5858, TN550 and the Td06H-25G and its copies/derivatives. I would choose the last one, indeed this comparison between these two (S200SXE & Td06H) is the most interesting.
@@aftastosk6016 the GT3582R (not GTX) flows 675HP, and the S200SXE is 650HP - take a careful look at the compressor maps - you will notice that these two are matched as direct competitors in flow - but the obvious elephant in the room shows one is BB and the other is JB. The GTX is not a fair comparison to the S200SXE in the GTX35 range - they obviously outflow the much smaller S200SXE.
T3/T4 market is rubbish - its a cheap, outdated, mismatched, unreliable, and poor performing product - in comparison to a turbocharger that is designed specifically for an intended performance based purpose. the GTW was released to compete directly against the Precision journal bearing range of turbos at a fraction of the price - the reasoning behind this is simple - the precision uses a copy of the ancient T3 bearing housing from Garrett and also the turbine shaft dimensions are 100% identical aswell as the repair kit inside - the only change from precisions side was the turbine head from the GT35 was copied from Garrett and welded to the T3/T4 turbine shaft design (shaft design from the neck to the shoulder and compressor threaded end of the shaft) The housings are the simple AR70 To4E housing on the comp side and the turbine was the usual suspect T3 AR63/82 ....
You can say that this is certainly a comparison, but depending on which turbine housing you choose from the GTW3476 range - you will definately not see 750HP. When running high boost with the GTW3476 you will start to see thrust bearing failures, especially with the AR48 turbine housing option.
The MHI TD06-25 is a dynamite product, not very popular but doesnt change the fact that its a proper turbocharger! It has a wide and tall compressor map and flows from a low P2C ratio all the way up to a high boost requirement without reliability issues.
@@TurboDirectSA we had this discussion before. My argument was that since precision, turbonetics, BNR and many others essentially were made as companies by selling T3/T4 copies and derivatives that they cannot be that bad! However i cannot but agree that the S200SXE and the Td06H (with its copies/derivatives) are the best options for most applications and the best bang for buck in general. My preference goes to MHI products. It's not a coincidence that forced performance offers turbochargers that essentially are Td06s derivatives with Borg Warner type compressor wheels. Possibly the best of both worlds.
@@aftastosk6016 As discussed before, i once more disagree with you for the very same reasons as discussed before -T3/T4 is rubbish no matter than name on it. As dicussed before - see previous discussions.
The reason that the "low volume" hypercar business does not belong to Garrett as one example is for various reasons but just one is that the rotating assembly you'll find in the low volume applications is made by MHI mostly - and custom housings and "coupling hardware" is made by a private company who now supplied similar to F2 series. MHI is definitely a brilliant design and under rated - BorgWarner is by far the leader in my opinion for various reasons. Borg and MHI together make a really great combination that yields are brilliant result.
garret very unreliable turbos with plastic separators in ball bearing cartdige, including g-series, only marketing
Garrett's new G-series ball bearing cartridge uses metallic cages, no longer plastic. The old designs, we used to manufacture the metallic cages for the turbos and upgrade them.
@@TurboDirectSA ok good. g30-770 it is old 3071 in new cartridge right? garret is too expensive turbo to experiment new cartridge. I have no doubt that garret could show "horse porse" on dyno of yours, but how fast it will be? how laggy? and the most important how reliably 'new' compare?
@@Arss-ast No the G-series has completely new design bearing housing and bearing cartridge - the same dimensions as the old cartridge.... The turbine wheel and comp wheel are both redesigned and also the housings are new- its a clean sheet design. The design is great, but very expensive compared to other options on the market today which offer more and have a better bearing cartridge and cooling system.
@@TurboDirectSA sounds like marketing ploy, ok will see how fast it will be, in efr everything understandably gamma-ti and other BW technologies. But garret is good only on paper, at least - now
@@Arss-ast I agree with you to an extent. EFR is far better than Garrett in some areas, but Garrett is also great. Everyone has his opinion, and experiences, and in mine, it's EFR all the way for various reasons which impact reliability, affordability, technology, attention to detail and also repairability and support from the manufacturer.
The G30s are not "less efficient at low boost pressure" the way it's being described. The G30s are MORE efficient at their peak efficiency, but if you remove all of the efficiency islands from the G30 that are about the peak of the S200SXE's 75% efficient you will see a VERY different map, and draw different conclusions.
Nope - apples with apples boost for boost lb for lb - BorgWarner outperform G-series every time. Facts kind sir - will always prevail.
@@TurboDirectSA You literally said the G-series was "less efficient". And I said you preferred the BW turbos and you denied it, now you clearly say you do prefer them.
I like BW turbos fine, but you clearly had a preference. At least you admit it now.