i just wanted to add that there are a lot more checks to armor. some armor moves can ONLY armor through mids and highs and will lose out to lows while moves like Hammerfall you can actually throw potemkin out of it. The other big check is that armor moves are often times minus on block, so with them being slow and reactable this can lead to an easy punish
@@normalpersonlivingtheirlife but only on Tekken would it be called Power Crush. We just call them armor because we're so used to saying it I feel zero guilt spamming LChloe's ↙+1
"There's a fine line between Bravery and Stupidity... ... We call that Armor." - Some horse in a fighting game It's definitely an interesting mechanic in FGs that's for sure.
Armored attacks are generally used as replacements for evasive tools that characters may lack, and in most cases, have similar weaknesses, such as being unsafe on block (Potemkin's Hammer Fall), easily whiff punishable (SFV Zangief's St.HP), only work vs certain types of attacks (Iron Tager's 6A only works against B, P, and H property moves), and are almost universally throwable (NRS games are the only exception in recent memory). In addition, the evasive equivalents of these moves are typically given additional upsides due to their perceived increase in risk. An example of this in GGST is Ky's Stun Dipper vs Potemkin's Hammer Fall. Stun Dipper is faster, hits low, and leads to greater advantage on normal hit in exchange for being low profile rather than armored. Both are used as high risk counterpokes or "neutral skip" tools with RC, but Stun Dipper is significantly better in both regards.
3:17 As someone who mained Hugo for the longest because I'm one of those hated players who LOVES grapplers, seeing that scene on Max's channel had me out of my chair hyped!
There's a character from Hisoutensoku called Tenshi, she is a pretty fast moving character that deal heavy damage, and has a 4 cost spell card that gave her 16 seconds of super armor, taking 25% less damage while remove the ability to block, it is probably some of the most broken super armor in the game beside Typhoon weather effect (weather game mechanics, give both player super armor, remove the ability to block, but she has a pretty cheap card that can disable this game mechanics on the opponent)
There's also another type of Armor called Heavy Armor. Which gives the user Armor, but it can be broken if the move you're Armoring was a strong one. (A common thing in Smash, which also has Heavy Armor that depends on Knockback, not only Damage). Also I'm surprised Vaseraga from GBVS isn't mentioned, since that guy had many different Armor properties.
To be fair, that's usually how Super Armor works. Most forms of armor in fighting games only armor through one or two hits, and having multiple hits of armor is quite rare.
@@LloydTheZephyrian ya, multiple hits or just almost flat out immunity to any effect other than damages and throws is often called hyper armor. I.e. little mac’s smash attacks in smash bros where he gets a few frames of hyper armor mid punch, which can make him beat really powerful attacks like Ganon’s uptilt/turning neutral b.
@@Scruffy-qi3ik then what do you call the armor Terry has when he's dashing with the "Are you okay?" That shit is also immune to throws and command grabs I think, and it has no damage cap, he can always keep going until someone gets hit by him, nor the dash length ends (Unless he got patched)
An ‘armour’ I find actually very interesting is Diego Brando’s Raptor form in All Star Battle R, you become immune to flinches, throws and ultimates, but it completely changes how Diego plays, it’s probably my favourite way of having an ‘armour’ on a rush down character
Wonder woman in multiversus has a move that gives her and her ally 1 bit each of armor. It has a cool down and armor-breaking moves are ubiquitous in the game, but it changes the rock paper scissors of neutral by a little bit.
My all time favourite armored move, or fully armored Character for that matter, is Z Broly from Dragon Ball FighterZ. This absolute Behemoth of a man has a move with fricking 16 hits of Super Armor. The attack lasts for not even half a second. That combined with most his normal hits, like the grabs, projectiles and heavy hits, all having super armor aswell, just is a ton of fun to play
I remember maining Raider in For Honor because I always keep seeing people spam dodge attacks with characters like Kensei and Orochi. found that Raider's chained heavy attacks have hyper armor, so I would throw a light attack which makes the spammer dodge attack, then I catch them with a side heavy attack and usually come out on top after trading blows
Then we have Smash, Percentage Based Armor, Hit Based Armor, Heavy Armor, Belly Armor, Tough Guy, Knockback Based Armor. And various characters with armor are quite fast, I’m looking at you Kazuya and Bowser
There is one normal-sized fighter in a game that moves normally, but has armor, and another who has hyper armor. Ike just has Aether (Up-B) that has Hyper Armor. Yang Xiao Long has 3 Normals that have armor, 1 Special Move that could be considered a guard point, but still loses health in that attack, and 2 Super Attacks which has armor. The thing about some Armored characters in my case is that some of them can have their attacks interrupted by a low attack.
Btw I wonder why you haven't shown MKX in this video. In that game, every character has at least one armored move, regardless of their size. And not just that, there are normal and hyper armored moves too.
MKX was notorious for having safe, armored (often requiring 3 hits to break) launchers as wakeup and reversal options. In some cases, these were even plus. Good times.
The game doesnt have invincible frame move and wake up, and some charge can rushdown crazy with their tool or run cancel. Armour move help you out of these sitiuation, if the armour move can start a combo, it would be slow move.
@@NeloGTz MKX actually does have invincible moves, it's just that they are so rare, there are only two of them in the whole game: Cassie Cage's EX Nut Punch and Smoke's EX Teleport.
My favorite armor move is Z Broly’s… everything. Having a relatively fast armored fireball special is nice, armored anti air grab and regular command grab,and his lariat having 10(!) hits of armor is so nice. The best part about the command grab, at least against my friends, is that as long as I don’t spam it, it always catches them off guard. Same with the lariat. It’s real fun.
Another example i love is Tekken Power Crush. Power Crush in Tekken is the same as Super Armor, but it can be break in some ways. They get canceled if you get hit by a low attack, wich is really dangerous if the other character can launch a combo with that. Also in Tekken you can break Throws rendering them useless, but if you get grabbed while doing a super armor move you can't escape and you recive extra damage.
My fav armour moves? Z broly's moveset. Centurion's charged upper cut in for honor Little mac's smash attacks. The raw power of getting by mac's smash after hitting the armoured frame is just incomprehensible. The bones in my body rattle and I feel like I'm kratos.
Pokken Tournament, with its rock-paper-scissors inspired gameplay, incorporated hyper armor into the core moveset of every single Pokemon in the game, color coded for the player's convenience with the color blue and called Counter Armor. Counter Armor negates all damage and knock back from any standard attack, and if the Counter Attack hits the attacker while they're in recovery the move gains some sort of bonus in the form of a Critical Hit, from increased damage to different forms of knockback, status effects, etc. Every Pokemon gets a basic chargeable, dash-cancelable Counter Attack by pressing X+A, but each one also has unique Counter moves in addition to that. In exchange for this wildly powerful option, however, Counter Attacks are vulnerable to grabs (Green, also get a critical hit for winning RPS) and special attacks called Counter Pierces, which are normal attacks that benefit from breaking Counter Armor. Good examples of Counters include Lucario's Extreme Speed, which functions fairly close to a traditional Shoryuken-esque DP, Machamp's Submission, which only gets Armor when used during Bulk Up but is actually also a grab, and Sceptile's Detect, which drops a giant hitbox with a defense debuff exclusively if you successfully Counter an attack. The variety is wild, and knowing what tools you have to beat them out is a huge part of the game. As a related bonus fact, some Pokemon also get a form of Super Armor on their normal attacks, which beats out throws and armors through normals, but the user still takes damage (and in Blaziken's case deal self-damage)
My team in UMvC3 (one of them anyway) is designed to bypass super armor and later abuse super armor (and then I could make a joke team with Hsien Ko for the hyper armo assist and have the trifecta, lol). Spider-Man, dorm, sent. Spider-Man is able to do things like “air heavy web ball, downward web zip, air H” which sends 3 attacks towards the same direction and also negates push block and leaves the option to air dash and do it all again if they have god push block timing. Characters like hulk and sentinels super armor aren’t going to really matter in this situation because Spider-Man is throwing out so many attacks. Later in the match if you gain three or more meter you can combo into maximum spider, dhc into stalking flare, throw out a second stalking flare, and hard tag back to Spider-Man. And then you can apply extreme pressure on your opponent and their super armor doesn’t matter in the slightest. Then if Spider-Man and dorm die you’ve got sent. And cr. M is hilariously useful.
Kouma Kishima’s 22c with 4 seconds of hyper armour to do whatever you want at the cost of 1 metre in a game where metre is a very expendable resource is broken. Not to mention it has invincibility on start up so only shielding can allow someone to counter it before it becomes a threat. I love MBTL and Kouma was my previous main. I abused it so much as all Kouma players should.
In Smash Ultimate, I like to call Mr. Game and Watch's Up Smash the Dumbass Magnet, because every time I start charging it somebody tries to hit me mid charge and gets fucked by the super armor
I play a fighting game called Project : Kaiju and seeing how fast these attacks are and the fact that the ''slow'' moves showcased here would probably be a free win if they were added in the game i play-
There are many mechanics in all the different fighting games out there, so it can be hard to have good terms for all of these mechanics. “Armor” can mean multiple things. So I feel it’s important to be aware of that, and ideally use the full terms instead shorthand of just “Armor” (at least when talking to people who aren’t already in the know, like beginners or people who are unfamiliar with the terms/mechanics). Here’s a short breakdown of my understanding of the terms: *Armor:* Reduces damage taken from attacks. *Invulnerable:* Reduces damage taken to 0. Can also be called *Full Armor.* You can still suffer hit stun, so you’re not *unflinching.* *Unflinching:* Suffer no hit stun from suffered attacks. But still suffer hit lag/freeze frames. This means your attack won’t be stopped, but might get delayed. *Heavy Armor:* Remain *unflinching* for X amount of damage (or knockback) from suffered attacks. *Super Armor:* Remain *unflinching* for X amount of hits. *Hyper Armor:* Remain *unflinching* for a certain period time (or frames) of a move, sometimes the entire duration of a move. *Intangible:* When part or all of a fighter’s *hurt box* gets turned off, making them harder or impossible to land hits on. *Hurt Box:* The part of a fighter that detects if attacks hit them. *Invincibility:* Suffered attacks don’t affect you at all. Opponent’s will still suffer hit lag and freeze frames when their attacks hit you. *Sabaki/Trample:* Is like *invincibility*, but only on certain parts of a fighter’s hit or hurt boxes and/or during certain moves/attacks.
Mine is Texaf from 'thems fightin jerds' Charge input, cancleable, 2 possible attacks from charge, and has 2 frames/hits of armour (aka if you are fast enough or use a move that hits more than once, you can stoo him, otherwise just block or get ready to jump (if he cancles into the cmd grab))
I absolutely love the fact that Potemkin is in the thumbnail because i deeply dread the people who learn to abuse the character cheaply just to get to tower 10.
@@User-no. Yeah, sure. Not too hard to say to someone who's got 8 hours on the game... If i get a hold of chip shit's gonna get real. Not against potemkins though...
My fav move is lambda from blazblues forward heavy. It's not actually armored but it has like 8 hotboxes in really quick succession so like nothing is trading with it.
Tekken 7/8's armored moves are definitely interesting. They add to the mind games a ton, but are balanced by frames to activate, range, and generally being unsafe on block. I think the games have been better for them, but I also can't imagine them without... so maybe I'm biased.
I think one thing about armored moves is they are often wildly unsafe if blocked. There aren't too many armored moves that are safe unless you have to spend meter. My favorite armored move is Big Bands's brass knuckles. Imagine if hammerfall was a big fucking disjointed fullscreen punch that is armored and causes a hard knockdown on hit. This works together with Take the 'A' Train which is an armored anti air command grab which also has nearly fullscreen range, and his Giant Step which is an overhead within range, and a fullscreen unblockable that must be jumped. The downside is these moves are all very unsafe.
I'm a Dk main. . . Why? Armour Side b: can bury enemies, has armor, In air it has Armour and can Spike. Can tank through Jigglepuff down be and fully charged one hit smash attacks Up B: beyblade spin recovery | multi hit rising attack but on land has Frame 5 super armor and can tank through almost any attack One Punch: THE strongest super armor in game I think, can tank any attack and has frame 4 super armor and is an instant punch Sometimes people like Ganon mains would use missinput a warlock punch and just to be a d!ck I'd run up to them with my charged Punch and let him hit me just as my punch goes out so instead of me dying he's the one getting launched
Armor is 'unfair' huh? Geez I swear the only thing that will make the FGC happy would be to have all characters be indistinguishable gray blobs that play exactly the same. And even then they'd complain that one blobs ducking hard kick is a fraction of a percentage point frames longer than everyone else's
That’s why I put “armor” in quotes, if you actually watched the video I wasn’t really complaining about it, I play Potemkin and I said my favourite move is hammerfall lmao
Mechanically what I don't like about it is how your opponent might not always have some visual indication, and that can be especially frustrating for new players. My critique is armor and most of the moves where you spend a bar to be able to avoid fireballs, are simply band aids on a problem that goes back to the original Street Fighter: the purpose of the mechanic is to "have meaningful combat across the entire screen." I think the question we need to ask is, DOES the same fireball mechanic we've had all these years accomplish this goal? I would argue no. First, we have to talk about "meaningful combat" and what that means. Certain types of throws (especially command grabs) might be considered cheap by some, but the general consensus is that neutral and closer meets the criteria (it is a nebulous term but we can agree on that). I think this comes down to the rock, paper, scissors, nature of block, throw, and attack. Both you and your opponent have the same ability to counter and outplay each other because of it. Secondly, the three different speeds of the attacks is a risk vs. reward mechanic.. although other factors undermine this and that is acceptable. What matters is there are six distinct actions we can take with different properties, and which one is the right tool depends on the circumstance. I think if we boil it down, those are the secret herbs and spices. So how do fireballs stack up? if it is two fireball characters, they can just chuck fireballs which cancel each other out. They can just chuck them out at each other over and over; it's fun but I wouldn't say that is "meaningful combat." You can also block it, you can neutral jump, and you can jump forward which is a big risk reward situation. Typically the person throwing out the fireball is looking for the jump in to punish, and the person jumping in has no response to that except to bait things out and hope they make a mistake. For a character with no fireball... just take away the ability to throw a fireball... not many options, and keep in mind originally fireballs felt so good because block pushed people pretty far back, so even a block was impactful. Without more ways to respond, this also doesn't meet the rock, paper, scissors criteria. This is where we start to see non fireball characters start to get things like "spend resource to just ignore fireball and hit them anyway" and armor that is "just be able to ignore the fireball." With both of these, your opponent does not have something they can do to respond to it, and you don't have anything that would beat that if you think they are going for it. You see where I'm headed with this? Even in Super Turbo Ryu got a "super" fireball that would go through other fireballs because it was a way to counter someone "blocking" your fireball. So why not go back to the SFII archetype drawing board and look at the base mechanics again. The only notable thing was Sagat's high and low fireballs, which certainly made things more difficult for non fireball characters. What we need are rock, paper, scissor mechanics for fireball vs. fireball AND fireball vs. non fireball built into the game. Not "ignore the mechanic" fixes, but a fundamental change to how things are built from the ground up. We had "trip guard" mechanics added because there was no counterplay to punishing a jump in with a sweep... maybe that can be reverted but those different methods to deal with jump ins can be countered by the player jumping in, which you would have a rock, paper, scissors counter to, etc. Your different buttons for fireballs have different properties and a rock, paper, scissors relationship to those of your opponents, changing who has to respond. If the same type meets, then you have a "block" where the fireballs cancel each other out. Non fireball characters are given baseline tools to have "meaningful combat" at ranged as well. For instance, maybe they can input a command that allows them to knock the fireball back at the opponent (turning the tables and forcing THEM to respond), with the downside that doing it too close or too predictable means they get a free jump in on you. This could also double as a tool that allows them to push back an opponent going for a command throw... if they guess right they get some distance and frame advantage. If they guess wrong they leave themselves open to a jump in and eat the command grab anyway, PLUS the extra damage from the set up. This would also make for a more interesting matchup between the grappler and non grappler characters who don't have fireballs. But you get the point... a new foundation to then add non traditional characters and mechanics on top of. Making sure there are no "bad buttons" and that each normal has unique properties. With more options baseline it also means whatever "gimmicks" you come up with for non traditional characters will be more likely to have a way to be countered.
Big Band in Skullgirls Mobile gains one point of super armor every time he dashes. But this is the same game where there are moves that stagger and automatically break through an opponent's guard, as well as staggering whenever you throw break, so the game isn't exactly balanced
The throw break stagger is a character specific trait. It's not balanced because it's a gacha game with a lot of rng. Crits? Double? But there is the competitive mode.
Well that's incorrect. Super Armor is armor that pushes through attacks, but will slow down from hitstop and take damage along the way. Hyper Armor is one that will plow right through everything without any slowdown to it, acting as if nothing's going on at all. Focus attacks in SF are hyper armor, compared to the examples of super armor there.
My favorite moves with armor is the entirety of Z Broly in FighterZ. He is my guilty pleasure character because he is so fucking dumb because he has so much armor it's ridicules., But when you're the one piloting it, oh HOHOHOHOHO!! That's where the fun begins
You forgot to mention, armored moves are usually minus on block, so trading will always be in favor for the armorered guy, so just block if you think theyre gonna use an armor move, secondly, armor moves usually aren't frame one armored, otherwise every big body would have a reversal which would be op
i learned about armor and hyper armor on roblox lol, ive never understood why when i hit someone but they did not get stunned or cancelec, dig a bit and learned about armors
man is named Typhoon talking about Superarmor and no mention of Touhou Hisoutenksoku's Weather Typhoon Characters gain superarmor and will not enter hitstun, and also lose the ability to block.
I personally love the universal power crush system introduced in T7. The only issue it has is not every power crush is equal so some characters have fast annoying ones that are easy to abuse and spam while others are very situational and you would only use if you have a read on your opponent. For example against people who don't like to block but prefer to counter attack and mash after being hit, power crush is a good answer to keep your pressure going and depending on the move can lead to a full combo or a scary mix up situation.
If king gets hyper armor in tekken 8 on any combo grab you know people are going to freak out. His armored running RKO is already being slandered, god help the devs if you can somehow tech it to switch to a low grab to punish anyone trying to duck it. I told my friends king would probably have something like a hype meter like Beowulf's and I'm honestly not displeased with an install.
There's a third version called Autoguard from the kof series. Kof used to have both hyper armour and Autoguard. But now it sticks to Autoguard only. People who think armour is unfair should definitely try playing kof 🤣 There's no subdivision like super armour where the armour only lasts for a limited number of hits. All autoguard moves will behave like hyper armour and last many frames. Some moves also become cancellable on triggering an autoguard.
my most favorite armored move is probably Little mac smash attacks, that shit is just dumb, fast, low recovery, powerful, and kills (but mac sucks in the air). honorable mentions: Broly heavy charge (DBFZ) it has like 10 HITS (not frames) of armor, All the charged heavy attacks of Injustice 2 (costs meter to do them, but it leads into a full combo), also Hero sideB, Terry super specials and Byleth downB (all from SSBU)
I've never considered armor as something unfair if it can be grabbed, or has low startup, or is easily whiff punish, or is super minus on block, since it can work as well as a reversal option just like Dragon punches since they share some properties like being punishable and stuff, also if you're 1 HP armor is not a resource you can count on since you can die. UNLESS you are Grappler from DNF which CANNOT DIE IF HE'S ARMORED (even if he's 1% HP, he cannot die). Armor that protects you from dying is completely insane and unfair imo.
Just to note, at 2:11 you say potemkin takes chipp damage, he actually is like donkey kong, the next example, he actually takes the full amount of damage. Some games do have 50% reduced damage on armor.
Not into fighting games, but I do like these analytical videos. My friend introduced me to broken characters that broke fighting games. One was orochi (hope I spelled that right) from Street fighter, with his unlockable projectile. Two was vergil, just vergil's entire kit in MVC3, but tbf, that game seems just dumb at it's core (not a fighter game player, I like occasionally touched mortal combat in the story mode) And last, but the best example is broley in db fighters, which has insane super armour, the fastest grab. Also the best grappler is also the best zoner. Yes Lets give super amour grab guy, the ability to delete projectiles with his own. At least it's lore accurate I guess.
Download Block Blast: blockblastgame.onelink.me/XJFQ/pwevecof
PS if you're reading this again, the last video is gone.
im so glad your getting a sponsor im actually going to click the sponsor link
@@f00lish Thank you!
wait whys the last vid gone
Got 25610 8-)
@@Gettenhart sheesh
i just wanted to add that there are a lot more checks to armor. some armor moves can ONLY armor through mids and highs and will lose out to lows while moves like Hammerfall you can actually throw potemkin out of it. The other big check is that armor moves are often times minus on block, so with them being slow and reactable this can lead to an easy punish
Yeah like in Tekken, King’s shoulder tackle only armours through mids and highs, getting hit with a low breaks it.
Come play Tekken; the move he’s talking about is called a “power crush” all of them have armour on everything but lows
@@058875915 oh I didn’t know there was a technical name for armour attacks
@@normalpersonlivingtheirlife but only on Tekken would it be called Power Crush.
We just call them armor because we're so used to saying it
I feel zero guilt spamming LChloe's ↙+1
@@normalpersonlivingtheirlife It has a name in Tekken because it’s a universal move I believe, so giving it a name makes sense.
As a Smash Bros K.Rool Player, I felt guilty every second of this video
Don’t feel guilty, embrace the armour. *we need it*
As a jigglypuff main I would like to apologize to you
I don't.
I’m a Mac main I feel you
don't be, it's a natural response, it means you have a soul
"There's a fine line between Bravery and Stupidity...
... We call that Armor."
- Some horse in a fighting game
It's definitely an interesting mechanic in FGs that's for sure.
if you told me that was a fg character quote I would believe you
Minecraft: Enchantments/armor type, take it or leave it!
@@typhoonbh I mean, i first saw it in the TFH tutorial about armored moves, which is why i put some horse in a fighting game as the one who quoted it.
There's a fine kine between bravery and stupidity...
... and grapplers snort that line
Armored attacks are generally used as replacements for evasive tools that characters may lack, and in most cases, have similar weaknesses, such as being unsafe on block (Potemkin's Hammer Fall), easily whiff punishable (SFV Zangief's St.HP), only work vs certain types of attacks (Iron Tager's 6A only works against B, P, and H property moves), and are almost universally throwable (NRS games are the only exception in recent memory).
In addition, the evasive equivalents of these moves are typically given additional upsides due to their perceived increase in risk. An example of this in GGST is Ky's Stun Dipper vs Potemkin's Hammer Fall. Stun Dipper is faster, hits low, and leads to greater advantage on normal hit in exchange for being low profile rather than armored. Both are used as high risk counterpokes or "neutral skip" tools with RC, but Stun Dipper is significantly better in both regards.
There's also Guard Point, which completely negates damage and usually allows you to follow up, such as Iron Tager's Voltec Charge
3:17 As someone who mained Hugo for the longest because I'm one of those hated players who LOVES grapplers, seeing that scene on Max's channel had me out of my chair hyped!
There's a character from Hisoutensoku called Tenshi, she is a pretty fast moving character that deal heavy damage, and has a 4 cost spell card that gave her 16 seconds of super armor, taking 25% less damage while remove the ability to block, it is probably some of the most broken super armor in the game beside Typhoon weather effect (weather game mechanics, give both player super armor, remove the ability to block, but she has a pretty cheap card that can disable this game mechanics on the opponent)
Glad to see someone talking about 10.5, though super armor installs like that are found in other games as well I'd think
@@captainnickname293 I have to mention, Hisoutensoku is 12.3 Scarlet Weather Rhapsody is 10.5
Man at least the AoCF version doesn't last nearly as long
There's also another type of Armor called Heavy Armor. Which gives the user Armor, but it can be broken if the move you're Armoring was a strong one. (A common thing in Smash, which also has Heavy Armor that depends on Knockback, not only Damage).
Also I'm surprised Vaseraga from GBVS isn't mentioned, since that guy had many different Armor properties.
To be fair, that's usually how Super Armor works. Most forms of armor in fighting games only armor through one or two hits, and having multiple hits of armor is quite rare.
@@LloydTheZephyrian ya, multiple hits or just almost flat out immunity to any effect other than damages and throws is often called hyper armor. I.e. little mac’s smash attacks in smash bros where he gets a few frames of hyper armor mid punch, which can make him beat really powerful attacks like Ganon’s uptilt/turning neutral b.
@@Scruffy-qi3ik then what do you call the armor Terry has when he's dashing with the "Are you okay?"
That shit is also immune to throws and command grabs I think, and it has no damage cap, he can always keep going until someone gets hit by him, nor the dash length ends
(Unless he got patched)
3:08 the sheer reaction left me speechless🤣🤣
same
Max got flabbergasted
As a Ganondorf main, I would like to remind everyone that his only attack with Armour is Warlock punch.
How helpful
Yeah and Bowser who’s 10x faster than Ganon gets to have Tough Guy, Armor and even invincibility on some moves. Nothing wrong here
Wait isn't his dash attack also have an armour?
@@ZAPRST8879 no, ganon have no armor aside from warlock punch, very sadje
Imagine if wizard’s foot or flame choke had armor
@@derpyquagsire6678 Flame Choke feels like a move that should armor when used grounded
But it doesn't
As someone totally new to fighting games, this helps a lot and I’ve never really seen anyone cover this topic. Thank you!
An ‘armour’ I find actually very interesting is Diego Brando’s Raptor form in All Star Battle R, you become immune to flinches, throws and ultimates, but it completely changes how Diego plays, it’s probably my favourite way of having an ‘armour’ on a rush down character
Wonder woman in multiversus has a move that gives her and her ally 1 bit each of armor. It has a cool down and armor-breaking moves are ubiquitous in the game, but it changes the rock paper scissors of neutral by a little bit.
That Apes Escaped Pump and Prime music has be high on nostalgia
My all time favourite armored move, or fully armored Character for that matter, is Z Broly from Dragon Ball FighterZ. This absolute Behemoth of a man has a move with fricking 16 hits of Super Armor. The attack lasts for not even half a second. That combined with most his normal hits, like the grabs, projectiles and heavy hits, all having super armor aswell, just is a ton of fun to play
I remember maining Raider in For Honor because I always keep seeing people spam dodge attacks with characters like Kensei and Orochi. found that Raider's chained heavy attacks have hyper armor, so I would throw a light attack which makes the spammer dodge attack, then I catch them with a side heavy attack and usually come out on top after trading blows
Then we have Smash, Percentage Based Armor, Hit Based Armor, Heavy Armor, Belly Armor, Tough Guy, Knockback Based Armor. And various characters with armor are quite fast, I’m looking at you Kazuya and Bowser
And faux armour due to port priority
Kazuya has so much jank you think they learned from smash 4.
@@projectz358 welcome to the dlc world
@@typhoonbh and yoshi with his double jump armor
There is one normal-sized fighter in a game that moves normally, but has armor, and another who has hyper armor.
Ike just has Aether (Up-B) that has Hyper Armor.
Yang Xiao Long has 3 Normals that have armor, 1 Special Move that could be considered a guard point, but still loses health in that attack, and 2 Super Attacks which has armor.
The thing about some Armored characters in my case is that some of them can have their attacks interrupted by a low attack.
I just wanted to stop by because i noticed the editing in this video is stellar. Great work.
Thank you!
Throws usually bypass Armor too.
6:35 I didn't really show it but yes you are right
I’m surprised you didn’t mention the other way to stop super armor. Block then punish. Or jump then punish
Btw I wonder why you haven't shown MKX in this video. In that game, every character has at least one armored move, regardless of their size. And not just that, there are normal and hyper armored moves too.
I have a bad habit of not mentioning MK on this channel, I have talked about it before but I tend to forget about it to be honest.
MKX was notorious for having safe, armored (often requiring 3 hits to break) launchers as wakeup and reversal options. In some cases, these were even plus. Good times.
The game doesnt have invincible frame move and wake up, and some charge can rushdown crazy with their tool or run cancel. Armour move help you out of these sitiuation, if the armour move can start a combo, it would be slow move.
@@NeloGTz MKX actually does have invincible moves, it's just that they are so rare, there are only two of them in the whole game: Cassie Cage's EX Nut Punch and Smoke's EX Teleport.
Most of us have only had limited testing with it so far, but I am tentatively putting SF6 Drive Impact as my favorite armored move.
My favorite armor move is Z Broly’s… everything. Having a relatively fast armored fireball special is nice, armored anti air grab and regular command grab,and his lariat having 10(!) hits of armor is so nice. The best part about the command grab, at least against my friends, is that as long as I don’t spam it, it always catches them off guard. Same with the lariat. It’s real fun.
Not that fun for people agaisnt it though, lol.
@@Bielzin._. DBFZ, like yugioh and Mario party, is at least partially about making sure you opponent doesn’t get to have fun.
@@odinkiller727 and mario kart. dont forget the darn mario kart.
"THE BEST GRAPPLER IN THE GAME IS A F#ICKING ZONER"
Another example i love is Tekken Power Crush. Power Crush in Tekken is the same as Super Armor, but it can be break in some ways. They get canceled if you get hit by a low attack, wich is really dangerous if the other character can launch a combo with that. Also in Tekken you can break Throws rendering them useless, but if you get grabbed while doing a super armor move you can't escape and you recive extra damage.
My fav armour moves? Z broly's moveset.
Centurion's charged upper cut in for honor
Little mac's smash attacks.
The raw power of getting by mac's smash after hitting the armoured frame is just incomprehensible. The bones in my body rattle and I feel like I'm kratos.
Pokken Tournament, with its rock-paper-scissors inspired gameplay, incorporated hyper armor into the core moveset of every single Pokemon in the game, color coded for the player's convenience with the color blue and called Counter Armor.
Counter Armor negates all damage and knock back from any standard attack, and if the Counter Attack hits the attacker while they're in recovery the move gains some sort of bonus in the form of a Critical Hit, from increased damage to different forms of knockback, status effects, etc. Every Pokemon gets a basic chargeable, dash-cancelable Counter Attack by pressing X+A, but each one also has unique Counter moves in addition to that.
In exchange for this wildly powerful option, however, Counter Attacks are vulnerable to grabs (Green, also get a critical hit for winning RPS) and special attacks called Counter Pierces, which are normal attacks that benefit from breaking Counter Armor.
Good examples of Counters include Lucario's Extreme Speed, which functions fairly close to a traditional Shoryuken-esque DP, Machamp's Submission, which only gets Armor when used during Bulk Up but is actually also a grab, and Sceptile's Detect, which drops a giant hitbox with a defense debuff exclusively if you successfully Counter an attack. The variety is wild, and knowing what tools you have to beat them out is a huge part of the game.
As a related bonus fact, some Pokemon also get a form of Super Armor on their normal attacks, which beats out throws and armors through normals, but the user still takes damage (and in Blaziken's case deal self-damage)
The Juggernaut Punch is what got me interested in the big ol' tank types in the first place.
( 3:09 ) That scream!
I know right?
My team in UMvC3 (one of them anyway) is designed to bypass super armor and later abuse super armor (and then I could make a joke team with Hsien Ko for the hyper armo assist and have the trifecta, lol).
Spider-Man, dorm, sent.
Spider-Man is able to do things like “air heavy web ball, downward web zip, air H” which sends 3 attacks towards the same direction and also negates push block and leaves the option to air dash and do it all again if they have god push block timing.
Characters like hulk and sentinels super armor aren’t going to really matter in this situation because Spider-Man is throwing out so many attacks.
Later in the match if you gain three or more meter you can combo into maximum spider, dhc into stalking flare, throw out a second stalking flare, and hard tag back to Spider-Man. And then you can apply extreme pressure on your opponent and their super armor doesn’t matter in the slightest.
Then if Spider-Man and dorm die you’ve got sent. And cr. M is hilariously useful.
Meanwhile in dragon ball fighterz z broly be chilling with the armored command grab (thats really fast aswell)
laughs in hammerfall armor yrc into potbuster
I think the robot from YOMI hustle takes the cake for the most scary fighter having the ability to use super armor on anything.
Kouma Kishima’s 22c with 4 seconds of hyper armour to do whatever you want at the cost of 1 metre in a game where metre is a very expendable resource is broken. Not to mention it has invincibility on start up so only shielding can allow someone to counter it before it becomes a threat. I love MBTL and Kouma was my previous main. I abused it so much as all Kouma players should.
4:18 that transition would win that tiktok transition trend
The charge imput is not what holds back hammerfall, it's unsafe on block, so if you throw it up and it fails you get a massive punish
In Smash Ultimate, I like to call Mr. Game and Watch's Up Smash the Dumbass Magnet, because every time I start charging it somebody tries to hit me mid charge and gets fucked by the super armor
Unfortunately that is not super armor. Mr. Game and Watch's up smash has invincibility on his head, which is different from armor
well big characters aren't the only one that have armor, angous from know knockout (it's a small indie game from hyun's dojo) has armor too.
Shugoki mains need to see this
I play a fighting game called Project : Kaiju and seeing how fast these attacks are and the fact that the ''slow'' moves showcased here would probably be a free win if they were added in the game i play-
There are many mechanics in all the different fighting games out there, so it can be hard to have good terms for all of these mechanics. “Armor” can mean multiple things. So I feel it’s important to be aware of that, and ideally use the full terms instead shorthand of just “Armor” (at least when talking to people who aren’t already in the know, like beginners or people who are unfamiliar with the terms/mechanics).
Here’s a short breakdown of my understanding of the terms:
*Armor:*
Reduces damage taken from attacks.
*Invulnerable:*
Reduces damage taken to 0. Can also be called *Full Armor.* You can still suffer hit stun, so you’re not *unflinching.*
*Unflinching:*
Suffer no hit stun from suffered attacks. But still suffer hit lag/freeze frames. This means your attack won’t be stopped, but might get delayed.
*Heavy Armor:*
Remain *unflinching* for X amount of damage (or knockback) from suffered attacks.
*Super Armor:*
Remain *unflinching* for X amount of hits.
*Hyper Armor:*
Remain *unflinching* for a certain period time (or frames) of a move, sometimes the entire duration of a move.
*Intangible:*
When part or all of a fighter’s *hurt box* gets turned off, making them harder or impossible to land hits on.
*Hurt Box:*
The part of a fighter that detects if attacks hit them.
*Invincibility:*
Suffered attacks don’t affect you at all. Opponent’s will still suffer hit lag and freeze frames when their attacks hit you.
*Sabaki/Trample:*
Is like *invincibility*, but only on certain parts of a fighter’s hit or hurt boxes and/or during certain moves/attacks.
Mine is Texaf from 'thems fightin jerds'
Charge input, cancleable, 2 possible attacks from charge, and has 2 frames/hits of armour (aka if you are fast enough or use a move that hits more than once, you can stoo him, otherwise just block or get ready to jump (if he cancles into the cmd grab))
As a Negan (Tekken 7) and Jason (MKX) main. You know I love armored moves :D
you forgot to mention that grabs usually beat armor. very important to the mindgames
In Tekken it's kind of essential but some characters have broken versions ie hwoarang and neegan that can combo off it
I absolutely love the fact that Potemkin is in the thumbnail because i deeply dread the people who learn to abuse the character cheaply just to get to tower 10.
Skill issue
@@User-no. Yeah, sure. Not too hard to say to someone who's got 8 hours on the game... If i get a hold of chip shit's gonna get real. Not against potemkins though...
My fav move is lambda from blazblues forward heavy. It's not actually armored but it has like 8 hotboxes in really quick succession so like nothing is trading with it.
Tekken 7/8's armored moves are definitely interesting. They add to the mind games a ton, but are balanced by frames to activate, range, and generally being unsafe on block. I think the games have been better for them, but I also can't imagine them without... so maybe I'm biased.
Ike's Up special says "Hi" 😂
I think one thing about armored moves is they are often wildly unsafe if blocked.
There aren't too many armored moves that are safe unless you have to spend meter.
My favorite armored move is Big Bands's brass knuckles. Imagine if hammerfall was a big fucking disjointed fullscreen punch that is armored and causes a hard knockdown on hit. This works together with Take the 'A' Train which is an armored anti air command grab which also has nearly fullscreen range, and his Giant Step which is an overhead within range, and a fullscreen unblockable that must be jumped. The downside is these moves are all very unsafe.
I'm a Dk main. . . Why? Armour
Side b: can bury enemies, has armor, In air it has Armour and can Spike. Can tank through Jigglepuff down be and fully charged one hit smash attacks
Up B: beyblade spin recovery | multi hit rising attack but on land has Frame 5 super armor and can tank through almost any attack
One Punch: THE strongest super armor in game I think, can tank any attack and has frame 4 super armor and is an instant punch
Sometimes people like Ganon mains would use missinput a warlock punch and just to be a d!ck I'd run up to them with my charged Punch and let him hit me just as my punch goes out so instead of me dying he's the one getting launched
Armor is 'unfair' huh? Geez I swear the only thing that will make the FGC happy would be to have all characters be indistinguishable gray blobs that play exactly the same. And even then they'd complain that one blobs ducking hard kick is a fraction of a percentage point frames longer than everyone else's
That’s why I put “armor” in quotes, if you actually watched the video I wasn’t really complaining about it, I play Potemkin and I said my favourite move is hammerfall lmao
Little Mac smash attacks are easily spammable, fast, safe, and do high knock back and are very versatile
Mechanically what I don't like about it is how your opponent might not always have some visual indication, and that can be especially frustrating for new players. My critique is armor and most of the moves where you spend a bar to be able to avoid fireballs, are simply band aids on a problem that goes back to the original Street Fighter: the purpose of the mechanic is to "have meaningful combat across the entire screen." I think the question we need to ask is, DOES the same fireball mechanic we've had all these years accomplish this goal? I would argue no.
First, we have to talk about "meaningful combat" and what that means. Certain types of throws (especially command grabs) might be considered cheap by some, but the general consensus is that neutral and closer meets the criteria (it is a nebulous term but we can agree on that). I think this comes down to the rock, paper, scissors, nature of block, throw, and attack. Both you and your opponent have the same ability to counter and outplay each other because of it. Secondly, the three different speeds of the attacks is a risk vs. reward mechanic.. although other factors undermine this and that is acceptable. What matters is there are six distinct actions we can take with different properties, and which one is the right tool depends on the circumstance. I think if we boil it down, those are the secret herbs and spices. So how do fireballs stack up?
if it is two fireball characters, they can just chuck fireballs which cancel each other out. They can just chuck them out at each other over and over; it's fun but I wouldn't say that is "meaningful combat." You can also block it, you can neutral jump, and you can jump forward which is a big risk reward situation. Typically the person throwing out the fireball is looking for the jump in to punish, and the person jumping in has no response to that except to bait things out and hope they make a mistake. For a character with no fireball... just take away the ability to throw a fireball... not many options, and keep in mind originally fireballs felt so good because block pushed people pretty far back, so even a block was impactful. Without more ways to respond, this also doesn't meet the rock, paper, scissors criteria.
This is where we start to see non fireball characters start to get things like "spend resource to just ignore fireball and hit them anyway" and armor that is "just be able to ignore the fireball." With both of these, your opponent does not have something they can do to respond to it, and you don't have anything that would beat that if you think they are going for it. You see where I'm headed with this? Even in Super Turbo Ryu got a "super" fireball that would go through other fireballs because it was a way to counter someone "blocking" your fireball.
So why not go back to the SFII archetype drawing board and look at the base mechanics again. The only notable thing was Sagat's high and low fireballs, which certainly made things more difficult for non fireball characters. What we need are rock, paper, scissor mechanics for fireball vs. fireball AND fireball vs. non fireball built into the game.
Not "ignore the mechanic" fixes, but a fundamental change to how things are built from the ground up. We had "trip guard" mechanics added because there was no counterplay to punishing a jump in with a sweep... maybe that can be reverted but those different methods to deal with jump ins can be countered by the player jumping in, which you would have a rock, paper, scissors counter to, etc. Your different buttons for fireballs have different properties and a rock, paper, scissors relationship to those of your opponents, changing who has to respond. If the same type meets, then you have a "block" where the fireballs cancel each other out.
Non fireball characters are given baseline tools to have "meaningful combat" at ranged as well. For instance, maybe they can input a command that allows them to knock the fireball back at the opponent (turning the tables and forcing THEM to respond), with the downside that doing it too close or too predictable means they get a free jump in on you. This could also double as a tool that allows them to push back an opponent going for a command throw... if they guess right they get some distance and frame advantage. If they guess wrong they leave themselves open to a jump in and eat the command grab anyway, PLUS the extra damage from the set up. This would also make for a more interesting matchup between the grappler and non grappler characters who don't have fireballs.
But you get the point... a new foundation to then add non traditional characters and mechanics on top of. Making sure there are no "bad buttons" and that each normal has unique properties. With more options baseline it also means whatever "gimmicks" you come up with for non traditional characters will be more likely to have a way to be countered.
Big Band in Skullgirls Mobile gains one point of super armor every time he dashes. But this is the same game where there are moves that stagger and automatically break through an opponent's guard, as well as staggering whenever you throw break, so the game isn't exactly balanced
The throw break stagger is a character specific trait. It's not balanced because it's a gacha game with a lot of rng. Crits? Double? But there is the competitive mode.
Mortal Kombat (especially X and 11) have soooo much when it comes to armor
I was expecting Little Mac to be sarcastically mentioned when you said "Now if they aren't slow".
Or really at any point in the video
The only armored I use is Ganondorf's Warlock Punch, and I use it every once in a while on an enemy sheild break.
The armor doesn't help, like at all.
"Most characters in games have super armor"
Meanwhile My Hero's One's Justice 2:
Yea, cus lil Timmy gotta know hyper armor is broken on a move that does 68 of your 200 base health
At the moment you are my favourite CZcamsr and I have no idea why you aren't way more popular.
As Lythero said “You’re never minus if you’re just not a bitch.” So stop being one and get some armor or I frames on your attacks.
Well that's incorrect. Super Armor is armor that pushes through attacks, but will slow down from hitstop and take damage along the way. Hyper Armor is one that will plow right through everything without any slowdown to it, acting as if nothing's going on at all. Focus attacks in SF are hyper armor, compared to the examples of super armor there.
Probably the best armored move is Bryan Fury's mach punch
My favorite moves with armor is the entirety of Z Broly in FighterZ. He is my guilty pleasure character because he is so fucking dumb because he has so much armor it's ridicules., But when you're the one piloting it, oh HOHOHOHOHO!! That's where the fun begins
In asbr Diego Brando's hha gives him hyper armour for existing
You forgot to mention, armored moves are usually minus on block, so trading will always be in favor for the armorered guy, so just block if you think theyre gonna use an armor move, secondly, armor moves usually aren't frame one armored, otherwise every big body would have a reversal which would be op
i learned about armor and hyper armor on roblox lol, ive never understood why when i hit someone but they did not get stunned or cancelec, dig a bit and learned about armors
This use of Max was pricelessXD
It was too good not to use it
@@typhoonbh Indeed was:D
When Max see it be Laughting like stupidXD
Where does the first clip of the video come from? The one with the soldiers fighting?
I love Ridley in smash but damn they gave him like no armor on anything
i feel left out as a bbcf Azrael player, cuz Azrael has the most outrageous armor in the fgc isg
I love potemkin matches simply for the fact that I can grab them out of hammerfall
pain
man is named Typhoon
talking about Superarmor and no mention of Touhou Hisoutenksoku's Weather
Typhoon
Characters gain superarmor and will not enter hitstun, and also lose the ability to block.
Broly FrighterZ choo choo train goes brrrrrr
Friendly reminder that Vaseraga from GBVs's armor works on supers!
As a Potempkin player, I do NOT feel sorry every second watching this video
me neither
I personally love the universal power crush system introduced in T7. The only issue it has is not every power crush is equal so some characters have fast annoying ones that are easy to abuse and spam while others are very situational and you would only use if you have a read on your opponent. For example against people who don't like to block but prefer to counter attack and mash after being hit, power crush is a good answer to keep your pressure going and depending on the move can lead to a full combo or a scary mix up situation.
If king gets hyper armor in tekken 8 on any combo grab you know people are going to freak out.
His armored running RKO is already being slandered, god help the devs if you can somehow tech it to switch to a low grab to punish anyone trying to duck it.
I told my friends king would probably have something like a hype meter like Beowulf's and I'm honestly not displeased with an install.
I thought armor was regular armor and super armor was this so called “Hyper Armor”
armour and super armour are used synonymously
There's a third version called Autoguard from the kof series.
Kof used to have both hyper armour and Autoguard. But now it sticks to Autoguard only.
People who think armour is unfair should definitely try playing kof 🤣
There's no subdivision like super armour where the armour only lasts for a limited number of hits. All autoguard moves will behave like hyper armour and last many frames.
Some moves also become cancellable on triggering an autoguard.
Remember Z broly from dragon ball fighterZ? With armor that breaks only after 10 hits? Yeah me neither
I like hwoarang armor move, you can do string of hits and still block the kick. Its hilarious to see
my most favorite armored move is probably Little mac smash attacks, that shit is just dumb, fast, low recovery, powerful, and kills (but mac sucks in the air).
honorable mentions: Broly heavy charge (DBFZ) it has like 10 HITS (not frames) of armor, All the charged heavy attacks of Injustice 2 (costs meter to do them, but it leads into a full combo), also Hero sideB, Terry super specials and Byleth downB (all from SSBU)
im looking at DBFZ where Z Broly choo choo train is broken as hell that has super armour
In my Adult fighting game they is a armor mechanic
I'm surprised that Z Broly from FighterZ isn't here
I've never considered armor as something unfair if it can be grabbed, or has low startup, or is easily whiff punish, or is super minus on block, since it can work as well as a reversal option just like Dragon punches since they share some properties like being punishable and stuff, also if you're 1 HP armor is not a resource you can count on since you can die. UNLESS you are Grappler from DNF which CANNOT DIE IF HE'S ARMORED (even if he's 1% HP, he cannot die). Armor that protects you from dying is completely insane and unfair imo.
does sol's heavy mob cemetery count because the amount of times i've seen people use it to completely stuff moves like ride the lightning is hilarious
If it can take a hit before delivering the blow then yes
@@typhoonbh i have seen sols use it to tank a security level 3 goldlewis skyfish so yeah
Just to note, at 2:11 you say potemkin takes chipp damage, he actually is like donkey kong, the next example, he actually takes the full amount of damage. Some games do have 50% reduced damage on armor.
In KOF you don't take any damage on armor
bro didn’t mention broly the walking armour man
The Hammerfall Experience
For Potemkin I don't think it's that bad because it's literally just one hit, but I can see it being bad for good lewis in particular
Soulcalibur 6 Astaroth plyer here xd don't know what i would do in certain matchups without armor moves ^^
For honor neta for a while was only hyper armor
Not into fighting games, but I do like these analytical videos. My friend introduced me to broken characters that broke fighting games. One was orochi (hope I spelled that right) from Street fighter, with his unlockable projectile.
Two was vergil, just vergil's entire kit in MVC3, but tbf, that game seems just dumb at it's core (not a fighter game player, I like occasionally touched mortal combat in the story mode)
And last, but the best example is broley in db fighters, which has insane super armour, the fastest grab. Also the best grappler is also the best zoner. Yes Lets give super amour grab guy, the ability to delete projectiles with his own. At least it's lore accurate I guess.
Damn bro got sponsored by fuckin square simulator
Z broly in fighterz is lethal with this
Does anyone remember Hwoarang's Backlash from Tekken 7?