MUST SEE! How To Setup Motorcycle Turning Position!
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- čas přidán 18. 11. 2018
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DDTF. "counterbalance" is putting weight on the outside peg with weight in the outside to offset a slow speed turn. The technique you show is for "Inside" balance for medium to high speed turning to keep the bike upright. Your vids are usually very helpful.
Amazing.
I wish I would have watched this before I went to get gas an hour ago, I couldn’t make the turn sharp enough and had to drive right out of the parking lot lol. Made it look like that was my plan all along though and went back 10 minutes later.
I would like to thank you and MotoJitsu and other MSF trainers who are putting out these videos. Especially in 2020, when most motorcycle training classes are cancelled which means people will go out without training, you are giving them an option to learn how to ride. Thank you.
I appreciate your training videos. I am a new rider at 70 yrs old. Last time I I rode a bike was in 1968 for a day. Not a lot of experience. I live in Nova Scotia, Canada so my bike is away for the winter and so am I. Now that I have watched most of your videos I,m anxious to get home in the Spring to start training again and applying everything that I have learned from you.
I've been watching your videos almost every day. They've helped me a lot and I'll remember what you say in the back of my head when I start to get itchy about turning. I'm a new rider and couldn't find an MSF course until September so I'm on my own for now, but you've helped tremendously. Please, keep doing what you're doing.
Let me say it in a more understandable language.
You just gotta dab the way you want to turn.
Lol underrated
Thanks Dan and Nikki, this helped me out a lot. Very thorough explanation and detailed camera work. Cheers!
Excellent instruction. I tried this on a tricky turn I have to take on my ride home every morning and it helped so much. It felt more secure than I thought it would and I'm not scraping my floorboards anymore.
You really feel secure and your bike doesnt lean as much. When that happens, you have MORE traction!
awesome video!! very helpful Thank you for making this video. Please keep up the great work!
This was very helpful! Thank you kindly!
Thank you so much for your videos
Im a new rider and been learning a lot with your videos . Thank you
Welcome!
Thanks for the video. Very helpful. Thumbs up.
Thank you!
4:15 omg i felt my shoulder pop out by just watching that. I pray i dont dislocate my shoulder trying to do this. I have a bad shoulder lol
Great video none the less! Ty!
Speaking for myself at least what confuses me as I am a beginner is the different kinds of turns of there are. For example if you are making a turn going very slowly then your body weight shifts to the opposite side of the bike correct? You additionally use handlebars and turn those at a slow rate of speed. But when you're going faster then the concept you are speaking of are applied is that correct? Turn wheel to the right or left at slow speeds and use body mechanics at intermediate and faster speeds without turning the wheel correct?
The MSF teaches "counterweighting" for *slow* speed turns -- leaning to the outside of the turn. Your turns in this parking lot look pretty slow to me.
How do you figure out whether to lean to the inside or to the outside?
Terrific stuff. Tomorrow I will be a safer rider because of your video.
how is it counterbalacing if when turning left you push your body to the left?
isn't it the complete opposite in slow turns?
I thought you should turn ur shoulders and hips to the side u are tuning yeah, lean ur bike to that side, yeah, but keep ur body straight up and leaning to the opposite side, to counterbalance the weight of the bike.
am I missing something?
Love these videos. Dan and Nikki, thank you for taking your time to make these.
Glad you're here watching. Hope you're doing well
@@DanDanTheFireman I am, thank you. You've made me more motivated to finally go to a parking lot to practice maneuvers. Haven't done this since my basic MSF course a year and half ago. There's a nearly abandoned mall nearby that I keep telling myself that I need to go to.
Sounds like a perfect place to practice. Remember to start off slow when it comes to speed itself. The more speed you have the more that can mask some of your deficiencies
Good point. I'll need to work on the slow concepts too.
@@DanDanTheFireman Alright, went to the mall today. This lean at slow speed whooped my ass. Never felt so out of shape on my bike before. Gained some respect for Nikki tonight. I definitely need to hit the parking lot more. I kept turning the handlebars when going slow. It was very rewarding when I finally started making the turns without turning the handlebar. A cop pulled up and sat watching me the whole time. I should have stopped to chat with him, but didn't think of it until later. I was too focused on riding.
So you are still counter-steering while maintaining the body setup for the turn??
It's a super exaggerated "V" on the Grom, because it is so light, makes a good stretch for the shoulders too.
Yeah the lighter the bike the more you can it really exaggerated that V and counterbalance
Hi Dan, can you please share where you bought your helmet? The brand?
I just realized everything you just described is the exact same as a roundhouse kick
I'm confused as to why, for general riding, someone would want or need to hang off the side of their bike? Shouldn't the goal be for the bike to lean into a turn & you lean with it?
When you lean off the bike or use body lean, the motorcycle itself stays more upright. When that happens, you have more traction on the tire and the suspension works better.
Windmillstables 1 You are correct mate. No need at all. The truth is an upright bike has no more grip than when at 45 degrees lean. Most street bikes will do this lean no problem (not cruisers) and most riders don't lean this far even when they think they are. So long as road surface remains the same and the rider doesn't decelerate or brake the bike will handle it no problem with no getting off the side required. Remember tyres are radiused so they have the same grip at varying lean angles. The whole idea behind getting off the side of the bike comes into play when going for extreme lean. Motogp lean angle is over 60 degrees. They can lean that far because of of the tyres they use and the road surface. Grip is basically friction. And friction is calculated using force (weight) and the co-efficient of friction between the tyre and road. But even motogp have limit as to the lean. Then getting off the side of the bike helps lower the centre of gravity enabling an even faster corner speed. But we are talking extreme cornering and speed. It's never needed on a road bike. Only for style if you think that's important. Also when going through a bend the idea is slow in and fast out so increasing acceleration. This compresses the suspension giving a more stable feel. It doesn't actually increase grip but it gives more stability and less bounce to the bike giving the impression of more grip. Ride safe
Returned To The Earth you try it. It's not as easy as it looks. And coming off the bike actually is safer than leaning the bike too far. Why would want to increase your risk of siding when you can make the turns the same speed and have the bike more upright? I'm ending this here so i don't do a TLDR like you did.
Actually lean angle is good in corners. As long as it's safe and not too far. An upright bike when your accelerate tends to lift the front end. A leaning bike compresses the suspension so the exact opposite of the upright bike. It's more stable. This is just a fact. Don't want to argue. It's more about people's fear of leaning and not trusting the bike. But I'm talking normal road riding not stupid Rossi impressions.
Returned to the Earth: I think the centrifugal force compressing the front end from lean is overcome by the raising of the front end on acceleration due to inertia, which increases rake angle, making the bike want to straighten-out. In other words, I would think there would be a greater benefit from a more upright motorcycle by body counter balance and the use of trail braking, than leaning the bike more and trail braking. At least at slower speeds. Obviously, the professional guys on the track drag knee for a reason. Just my thoughts.
What brand are these riding jeans? Thanks
I am a new rider as of last year, and just got my bike out today after having it away all winter. These were great tips and ones I learned in my course but mostly forgot. Thank you for the review :).
I’m loving that predator attacking prey strategy haha
1:25 be honest that you felt cheezy there uuayaysbwwjshdbeeneh nice dandan! ahihihihi
SHOW!
Thank you for taking the time to share your wealth of experience in these great videos ...
I wanted to get a bike and learn to ride until I saw this video... this seems more dangerous than I previously thought
It also helps not having a fat stomach or sore lower back/hips.
Total noob to riding, but how would you apply this lesson to floor boards and forward controls?
*Also just became a patron. Love your teaching style and knowledge.
You wouldn't apply this on a cruiser at all. You lean forward on a sport or super sport to provide stability, vision by opening yourself to the corner and proprioceptive reference. You won't engage the tank scallops on a cruiser which is why cruisers don't have tank scallops typically as they would be pointless.
On a cruiser just get your butt about a half cheek inside, lean into the corner with your upper body pointing your zipper into the corner and your chin exactly where you want to go. Stay upright with arms slightly bent and loose with no weight on the bars.
Lower body posture is all but pointless on a cruiser. Most of the time your knees are gripping a hot valve cover, air box, or exhaust shield. Bottom line, don't try to hang corners like Rossi on a cruiser. Its like trying to autocross a John Deere tractor. Enjoy the comfort and ease of riding. Buy a sport bike to hang corners.
If you do over bake a corner and need to shave off lean to keep from scraping and levering off the tires use your upper body more and stay upright as the bike was designed to be ridden. You can't engage floorboards with your feet like a rearset. You can't engage the tank like a sport bike, so don't try to use sport bike posture on a cruiser. You'll have a bad day.
When are you going to The Dragon US129 to test out these skills!
Maybe you should try this technique out on the Wing or the CB1100...or even in the UPS truck. YMMV!
🤣@@mikeca98
Nothing feels as good as applying pressure to the balls of my foot!
Im new to riding but, 11:17-11:30 looks pretty dangerous for your ankle if your toe makes contact with the road or if you low side. Is that the correct way to position your foot on the peg? GREAT VIDEO BTW
Sorry I can't see the part of the video while I'm walking my dog. But if it's the part where I am going in a circle or I'm showing you how much of a lean I am on the bike. Just remember that when you lean off the bike that much your bike itself is not leaning as much. That allows more contact patch from the tires to allow more traction on the road. And since you are a counterbalanced with your body and bike you are completely balanced with a good center of gravity. You should spection works better vertically then off to the side. So this is actually safer to ride like this
DanDanTheFireman Makes sense, thanks for reply!
Are we supposed to do this in front of other people? I guess I could tell them I'm practicing a new dance! ;)
Yeah I highly recommend you just do it at home LOL
verry funny rule where i am from. your not allowed to preform that on anny bike when you are on the street. it will be seen as joy riding. wich results in a ticket.
Dan I really like your videos and you as a person. I am a subscriber, and will continue to be.
That said your body position techniques are patently wrong. I known that you were taught by someone with a certificate and yada yada.
These techniques put you in a unstable riding position. When you are leaning your torso that far and hanging onto the outside grip to stay on the bike and twisting your hip Oy Vey! A track coach would pull you off in the first lap to fix your crazy dangle angle. Your one big bump or shimmy from coming off the bike or wrenching it down by the bars in a misconceived attempt to stay on.
Do not twist your hips! Terrible idea. Do not unsquare your shoulders from the plane of the bars. Hips square with shoulders, shoulders square with bars always, no exceptions. (Unless you are doing a hip flip in a chicane at 100mph and know what you're doing) Never make any jerky kung fu movements on the bike, ever!
I don't know what course this technique is from, but I'd like to know to avoid it. CSS with Keith Code, or Yamaha School of Champions is the gold standards. $600 to $800 a day, but more than worth it. Take one of them, and come back and remake these videos when you understand how dangerous what some of what you are saying can be in a high speed cornering, or traction loss scenario. The only thing you got right is using the outside foot, and outside knee to anchor.
Twisting and snapping your hips and shoulders is a bad, bad idea. Keep your core squared and anchored at all times. You should be able to let go of the handle bars and not move or upset the bike at any time during any maneuver if you are doing it with correct form.
Get back in your demonstrated low forward position with hips twisted and let go of the bars. You will fall off or bobble the bike to recover and not fall off. Which demonstrates that you are using the bars to hold on. You can't use the bars to hold on and control the machine correctly at the same time.
Not trying to be mean, but you are speaking from perceived authority to new riders and you have accepted responsibility to teach to the highest level you can. Please raise that level. I used to espouse and teach very similar techniques and views as you do now until I learned I was wrong. There are much better, much safer riding strategies. Don't skimp on detail for simplicity of teaching. A higher end course will teach the neuro science and bio mechanical reasons behind why the old school methods are wrong and potentially dangerous. Bad muscle memory is hard to rewire. Start doing it right sooner rather than later.
Appologies for coming across harsh, but I too am a fervent motorcycle safety advocate. Your heart is 100% in the right place. Love your channel, and you.
Totally, totally agree. From an expert road racer & trackday control rider-still a subscriber and respect your attempts at helping our community become stronger, more confident, and ultimately safer riders. Please take this down and remake it after doing exactly as Les suggested. I won’t comment again but would be more than open to getting together if you’re ever in the central Fla area and going thru every step and why I disagree with it/them.
I was taught to kiss my inside mirror
Its like dabbing
I am assuming your doing this as an exercise prior to riding on the track. If people are riding around corners on the street like this they'll be a laughing stock.
But it's safe
1 Corinthians 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
mrnamaste04 lmao that’s what I was thinking like you never see anyone turn like that 😂😂😂
the purpose of it is to get comfortable with your bike, counterbalancing, and counter steering.
Yea this is not the way to take turns on a daily commute. Lmao the fuck
10:02
First
Well I first cuz I created the video. Boom
You haven't explained why it is desirable to lean your body farther than the bike is leaning. Also, for slow turns, there are several videos by others showing how to place your body weight on the outside of the bike (on the left side while making a right-hand turn); exactly opposite of what you're showing. There would appear to be a contradiction there.
I'm not saying you're wrong, just that there's no explanation as to why one should do as you say.. I.e. what are the physics involved in remaining in line with the bike verses putting your body to one side or the other? One can lean the bike by counter steering and remain "vertical" to the bike's wheels, leaning with the bike while remaining centered on the bike,. And why that is a bad idea, you are not saying, or even mentioning. It seems to me that you're giving an alternate method of leaning the bike (shifting your weight verses counter steering). It may be great method, but why? It's like steering a hang glider by shifting your weight, verses twisting ailerons on the wings while remaining upright and centered in the pilot's seat of a conventional plane. Both work, so explain why one is better than the other.
Washington State's two wheel study manual, for example, doesn't mention your method at all. Again, your method may be the bee's knees but you give no argument for it. Maybe you're only talking to the advanced riders and I should stay out of the conversation,?
The video would be much more effective if we had a bit less of Dan and a bit more of his nubile assistant.
to be honest, I am confused, I like your content and you usually bring up great points...but this? I ride since 8 years in the alps took 5 motorcycle saftey classes and have NEVER seen anybody doing anything remotely like this! I mean even YOU don't do this in your ride along videos. Also you demonstrated "leaning INTO a turn" not "counterbalancing", which would be to fully extend your arm on the inside of the turn, pushing the bike down into the turn, while leaning your body to the outside of the turn as far as possible...so I gues I want to say...WHAT?
What happened to slow, look, press, and roll? Who sets up for a corner like this? Your videos are usually very good but this one...just confusing. You yourself don't corner like this. All this exaggerated body movement, and counter balancing? Counter balance for a slow speed u turn, yes.
I'm assuming this video is just to demonstrate center of gravity. But it's not a tutorial on how to corner. Certainly not what they teach in the msf.
This is beyond confusing.
When I watch your videos, they take the fun out of riding. Very depressing videos.