Modding a "New" ATI Rage XL PCI GPU to Work on a Vintage Motherboard
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- čas přidán 27. 09. 2021
- Sneaky cost optimization causes these cards to not work on old hardware, so I show you a simple mod to allow them to work.
I have a second channel:
/ @markfurneaux2659 - Věda a technologie
I bought one of these a few months back from Amazon. Had I not run it initially in a modern dell workstation (which worked fine) I probably would have assumed it was defective. I couldn't get it to work in any of my older 486 and Pentium boards. Now I know why! Thanks for sharing this simple mod. I may give it a try.
This actually works! I used a AMS1117-3.3 3.3V SOT-223 which cost me a few pennies. Just solder as shown in the video and it works. Such a cheap, easy option. Thank you, Mark.
Can you write which exactly 3.3v PCI pin to measure?
I'm afraid that on my old m/b there is actually +5v instead of 3.3v there and the card will be burnt :(
Thankx Mark it would be cool to see what vintage computer projects you got going on.
I saw a recommendation on Phil's computer lab video, yet I found the video anyways lol. Anyway cool fix. Ironically looks like a heart, showing that you put more care than the maker of the product. Maybe you can put a switch to disable the fix on the other motherboard if needed to test.
I'd be a bit concerned that linear regulators in that form factor typicallly are only rated for 0.8A ... 1.5A and if the chip needs more than that, you could get random driver crashes or reboots.
The chip will also make some heat, for example assuming 1A of current, you're looking at (5v - 3.3v ) x 1A = 1.7 watts of heat - this heat is dumped into the transistor, which also heats from regulating down from 3.3v to 2.5v or whatever is needed.
Also, for anyone suggesting 1117 regulators, keep in mind that 1117 regulators are known for having some requirements like having an electrolytic capacitor on the output with ESR between 0.1 ohm and 1 ohm in order to be stable across various temperatures and loads. Some manufacturers make slightly modified 1117 regulators which can work with ceramic capacitors on the output. But if you're unlucky, you'd need to add a capacitor on the output ... something in the range of 10uF 50v rated to 47..100uF 25v rated (whatever lands you in that 0.1...1 ohm esr range)
Anyway, you have a plain regulator without decoupling capacitor on input, and without capacitor on the output, but yeah, it's gonna be fine, since they're basically soldered to each other there's no need for an output capacitor
Thanks for the video man! Worth everyone's time
Thanks for this information. I can't say I blame you considering how expensive the Voodoo cards have become.
are they really expensive? is that something to do with the current GPU situation? or some kind of resurgence of retro-computing fascination? or because they're rare and desirable for some particular reason?
@@chrom4ful 3DFX Voodoo cards have become relatively rare and desirable. They had their own graphics API (Glide) and were last produced in 2000.
I was super lucky to get a 3dfx voodoo 3 3000 pci from my schools old parts bin a few years back before i graduated. There was no way id have been able to get one considering those sold for 100 bucks then and easily 200+ now
RageXL has ATi 3DCIF, Direct3d and OpenGL support.
Just did this mod today, works great. Thank you!
Worked like a charm in my Pentium 166 PC, thank you very much!
Edit: too early to be happy, the PC gets stuck with the cursor blinking on Detecting Plug and Play devices shortly after the disc detections. Back to my 1MB Trident :(
Edit 2: further update, I removed the PCI ethernet board and now it works, looks like I can't use other PCI boards with this VGA, and I'm keeping it since the ethernet is not so important for my build. ISA boards are fine.
High power diodes near all the 3.3V traces would make this modification safer for use with other universal PCI cards connected to a motherboard. The video only shows a cost-reduced modification for a cost-centric shortsighted PCI design. Becareful.
Nice mod! Worked for my IBM PC 330. Thanks!
Thanks ! Very Helpful for me and my MMX build :)
what if you mod motherboard itself for 3,3v power delivery? if the pci slots on the motherboard have phisical pins for 3,3v only not connected you can bridge them all together and either hook up to orange wire on atx power suply or do a regulator from 5 volt or even make an add on pci card that would simply work as a step down converter, linear or switching feeding it back to the slot
I just tried this mod and it worked on my asus p2b. Thanks!
Worked great, thank you!
There exist a chip called : AMS1117-3.3 it can do upto an amp, same form factor , same pinout, very cheap trustworthy. Cold be similar to that. However they recommend to use caps on in and out pins, to keep voltage stable, works well.
I have a p200 mmx on a p55t2p4 (512 cache add on) with a matrox mystique video version 1 (with memory add on board) and a 3dfx voodoo add on card version 1 with 128 mb edo ram. Started it up the other day ( been years since it ran). Formatted the old Samsung 1.6 gb hdd and dual booted dos 6.22 and win 98.
If I sold this machine think it would be desired or not?
What would happen if I just removed the voltage regulator entirely? I'm pretty much a complete novice in this area, but I bought one of these cards and it does not work in my machine. Where devices commonly have 3.3v regulators if I needed to scavenge one? I have a soldering and hot air station so I could remove and attach regulators if needed.
good to know, though my problem is my socket 7 board doesnt like pci cards with large (64kb) vbioses. If i ever get a super 7 board with agp i might change it.
Great video! How does the Rage XL compare to things like the Matrox Millenium 2?
It works! Thank you very much.
I found a nVidia 6200 256MB PCI card "Not PCI-E" for my old PC, powerful enough to get Oblivion to play in low, med settings. There becoming harder to find now though. As they were one of the most powerful PCI cards to come out. Next to one ore two other cards that are a bit faster but are even harder to find.
I bought a TNT2 and of course it had the same issue in the project as yours have. But I can't figure out what to do to fix it. It like your has just one mosfet and the ram datasheet states it is 3.3V.
This is really great, it finally provides an answer as to why it works on my P4 but not on my P1. I think if you could provide some schematics or a tutorial using the AMS1117, I think this card would be a great asset and cheap alternative to the retro gaming community, considering the prices and rarity of the top dog cards.
Just look at the PCI pinout, look for 5V and 3.3V, follow the traces. Between 5V, 3.3V and GND, you connect your regulator just like the datasheet says.
Beware when using such a card in a 3.3V board, it _could_ power your other pci cards and the regulator could get hot.
This card is not at all a great asset, it's a pile of garbage. The Rage XL has a 64 bit memory bus, but this card only uses a single 32 bit wide memory chip, which means 50% less bandwidth. It's going to be far slower than an original Rage series card made back in the 90s.
@@GGigabiteM No, even with 32-bit, it will be faster than Rage and Rage II.
Because Rage I used Edo ram.
SDRAM is faster even at same speed.
Also... there were 32-bit Rage IIc s, with half memory chips (2, instead of 4). Beware of it. :) Many people got burned back in 1998 or 1999, when they've bought them.
Some even didn't find it till today, why they had so terrible 3d performance even in games, that used to work with them. Like Jedi Knight, Tomb raider with CIF support etc.
@@warrax111 The bandwidth difference between fast EDO and SDR is not that much, at most 20 or 30 percent. You can see that on the specs of the Rage cards between the models with EDO and SDR.
When you cut the bus width in half, you lose 50% of the bus bandwidth, using SDR is not going to make up for that deficit. In that case, a card with EDO on the full memory bus width is going to be faster, even with its deficits.
@@GGigabiteM the differance between full memory bus (128-bit or 64-bit), vs half one (64-bit vs 32-bit) is also about 20-30%.
Depends on how much is memory limiting experience, (that depends on core and architecture).
That's why SDR 32-bit could be about same fast as EDO 64-bit.
But XL is die shrunk Rage Pro. Rage Pro has several advantages in architecture, more advanced drivers, OpenGL support, and much more.
Rage Pro drivers are much more compatibile with newer software after year 1997.
That's why XL even with 32-bit memory bus, is still better pick, than Rage II with 64-bit EDO memory.
(Rage IIc with 64-bit SDR memory could be starting to catching up thought.)
hi, i have a p4 mobo that has onboard rage XL PCI, do you know if there are any decent winXP drivers?
the ones i tried are SHIT.
why my chipset wont run a pci card and a pcie card at the same time ? Forgive me I'm into computers but mostly ddr3 and ddr4 era are the only things I've studied in depth. Its a ddr 2 chipset ,G35 I believe. Maybe there's some other idiosyncrasy I'm unaware of . I also had the pci wifi card functional on the system but only when using integrated graphics on the E2140 ( 1.1 base 1.6 boost dual core (Dell prebuilt inspiron 530 ORY007)). To be clear I don't need this answered by you or anyone specifically, just curious. There might not be enough lanes to spread out and its only a storage box.
great! good job!
I have a lot of issues with these cards (Not branded) on socket 3 and socket 7 boards so this must be the issue. I have two that are branded that work on socket 7. Thanks for the info.
Good fix worked for my old P 200mhz mmx system but cant seem to get drivers other than windows default any tips?
It's interesting to note that while this is a remanufactured(?) board, they did go as far as to use actual meandering delay lines on the PCB. For taking e-waste and throwing it on a board to resell to a niche market, I'm surprised at the amount of engineering put into it.
it might just be a copy of a board that was used long ago.
@@Mr_Meowingtons Bingo. Layout wise this card looks like a "Xpert98XL PCI" (P/N 1025-35050) with 3/4 of the components cost-downed out of existance
can i conect 5v to regulator from molex hdd conector?
Excellent, it works fine for me, tks!
dude i owe you big time
Can you write which exactly 3.3v PCI pin ID/name to check/measure?
Wondered why this card didn't work on my P66 batman's revenge MB (OG Intel Pentium 1 board)... this tipped me off as to why there's a 3.3v AUX power header on the MB near the pci slots, found an adapter to hook that up (its the old school 6 pin AT power connector) --> worked, also that made a gigabit ethernet card work, thought it was too new or pci 2.1 weirdness! So didn't have to do this mod... but want to trace the voltages & do it anyway maybe more optimal and universal, have other PIII boards this card does not work in. Interesting, Thanks!
And it makes a pretty heart!
Oh wow. I bought one of these thinking I could use it on my old PC, but nope! Bought some other old video card. But it kinda sucks. So I'll be giving this a try. Thank you!
Well it powered on. But all the graphics are a garbled mess.
That's a cool mod. I would consider cutting the trace to the 3.3v pad just to make it universal... maybe add some resin over the solder joints for strain relief/insulation.
Btw, I think I have some PCI cards somewhere (including ethernet and a neat hardware RAID IDE card, and some other stuff, like IDE2SD adapters...), if you or your viewers want them, hit me up. I'm in WA state, btw, but I can ship.
Hey, do you still have any of those pci cards?
There is also voltage injektor boards for pci sloth. I butcher pci riser board where I blace regulator. It's give 3V3 for all motherboard sloths.
where would you find a 3.3v injector board ?
I've heard that these sometimes do not work on some boards, and I was always confused, as mine always worked. This is the first time I have ever seen the variant you have.
Lots of comments on here about what this guy may or may not be doing wrong, so what exactly should I avoid when performing this same mod?
I have this card but i cant find the drivers
Would you be able to use a diode to prevent 3.3V back current from your modded regulator, for the case when there's another 3.3V supply on the bus? Is that a dumb idea?
it's not dumb idea but when you already cut a trace to make place for diode you already solve a problem and no diode is needed anymore :)
Espectacular
there is or was a geforce fx 5200 for pci
Thanks for sharing,! I have one of those and it refuses to work in my Socket 7 Compaq, now i know why. By any chance does anyone know if you can replace the RAM for 16MB?
Yeah tried to use it on an old Intel super socket 7 board now all I need is a regulator.
I like the mod.
Sad they didn't include the Theater chip on it, which gives you MPEG2 hardware decoding for smooth DVD playback on older hardware.
If it had been included, I would've picked up this card for one of my retro projects immediately. I'm a sucker for "underdog" cards like this one.
yeah i had a k6-2 550 and it wouldnt play back dvds smoothly with a geforce or voodoo 3, but a 4mb rage 11c agp smooth as silk 🤣
You could do the jumper for 5v/3.3v switching. :)
NIce little hack. It might explain why I've seen other cards seemingly not work on some systems but work perfectly fine on others. I wonder if you could really cheat and just stick 3 cheap diodes in series to drop the 5V down to about 3.2 and be good enough?
You could probably lift the input pin on the regulator and wire it straight to 5V, though verify the datasheet first.
I just tried the mod using diodes as you suggested and it works! I used 2 diodes from an old modem and they stepped the voltage down to 3.4V which was close enough. It's a bit simpler than doing it with a voltage regulator.
@@JHDarkleg Just be careful that you don't install another card that needs 3.3V in the same system or you will overload the diodes! To be safe, you may want to cut the 3.3V connection to the card edge connector so it can't backpower anything else (if the +3.3V rail is connected between the slots)
I'd imagine that some sort of diode should be put in circuit to stop the 3.3V from backfeeding into the motherboard.
So, would you recommend this card for a 430fx based system (EDO and WinChip 2 200)? I've been agonizing over what I should get for this retro DOS and very early 2000 Win98 machine.
@ch282 Thanks for your response, but I've recently changed plans. The 430fx board I have is being flakey, so I am going to try something a little different.
@ch282 I am doing two things: I bought two VIA C3 minITX mobos on the cheap (one two experiment with, one to build with), and I am keeping my WinChip 2 200, ESS ISA soundcard, and the S3 PCI video card, and some RAM and will continue to look for a decent working mobo :)
@ch282 I bought two of these: EPIA-LP10000A . Given that it's a Via C3 Nehemiah and can run at different FSB via the jumpers (66, 100, 133) AND can have its internal multipliers set/caches disabled by that one program PhilsComputerlab uses often, it should work quite well. I am looking to do some other stuff with it since there are other FSBs setting available if you want to program the clock generator via I2C.
Ha now I understand why my PCI card for adding usb ports to my Pentium 75 does not work. Thanks!
Nice 👍
7:56 you say that board draws one watt, but i remember seeing a release for this graphics card, and it said the high end version of it can do up to 8 watts, so it's probably more than 1 watt
Ah, a rival for the GT 710 has been found at last!
boomers: You mean the 5200?
These RageXL cards are actually useful for vintage systems since they work with the Mach64 drivers, ie have driver support down to Windows 3.1x. The GT710 PCI? Seems completely pointless
I tried this on a pentium 100, did not work unfortunately.
I did this mod which made the graphics card, that looks identical to your two, work with my socket 7 Zida 5DTX II motherboard. But using drivers from ATI website it was not reliable. Blue screens in Windows 98 and 2000 with ATI drivers. For some reason computer servers have for many years and still now only offer VGA graphics output and they often use the ATI Rage XL graphics chip.
I got it to work after I realized I got one motherboard jumper for CPU voltage was wrong duh. Windows 2000 Rage XL driver installation was easy. Windows 98 was another boxing match of driver Kerplunk.
Interesting - is the PCI interface on the ATI chip 5V tolerant?
If you mean the signaling voltage, the Rage series chips probably all expect 5V signal lines considering how old that family of chips is. Consumer motherboards always used 5V signaling on PCI. 3.3V PCI slots only appeared on servers and occasionally on workstations.
If you mean power supply - the external regulation circuitry is already stepping down the voltage to whatever the chip requires, this mod doesn't change that. It's only changing where that regulator circuit gets it's power from the motherboard - instead of taking power from the 3.3V rail, which older boards don't provide, it's taking power from the 5V rail instead.
It's pretty close to the original looking, mines a red PCB but everything is in the same place.
💜
9:10 sooooooo if i were to do this put am I/O switch on it. got it.
still safer than my hard wired psu with a cracked pcb for my sega saturn
Just add a jumper
I dunno, you might be drawing too much current for that regulator. I would tap into a 3.3v rail from the power supply.
AT power supplies don't have 3.3V
@@timrb you're right. it's been too long since I've played with a AT.
Indeed
Cool modification - it's annoying that whoever designed this didn't allow for older boards which don't provide 3.3V power to the slots.
Those keys in the PCI connector are for the signaling voltage, not what power supply rails the card uses. The keys prevent a mismatch of signaling voltages, which can cause damage.
The issue here is with what power supply pins it draws from. The keys aren't defined based on that because it's not a destructive issue, if the 3.3V power pins don't supply power then it just won't boot.
As demonstrated this card does work with 5V signaling, as virtually all desktop boards use, so the 5V keying is correct. _If_ this card would also work in a server board with 3.3V signaling, then having a 3.3V key would also be correct.
So I think it's cut correctly. But given the doubts about who designed these cards, I personally wouldn't want to risk a server board to test the 3.3V scenario. :)
I have a server board with the Rage XL onboard - it was the most common video solution for servers in the mid-late 2000s. But mine puts it on the 5V PCI segment, so that still doesn't provide any evidence of whether these chips actually work with 3.3V signaling.
I was pretty perturbed when the X.Org people (or whoever it was) dropped support for Rage XL citing it's age, at a time when server boards with that chip were still only a few years old. I would think a huge number of people were running linux on retired server boards with that chip onboard. Admittedly most probably didn't care about having a working GUI though.
the part mumber links to a gun of some sort
I tried my own one in an old pentium... And it didn't booted. Now I know why. Thanks.
I thought this bloke was James Corbett at first... nice mod, why do these recycle people not make it work in the off..
Available on Ali for 10USD
Ati rage XL alone can eat upto 10W.. not talking about the memory.. so
Lies. :) Geforce 256 would eat around 12W. Geforce 2 MX around 4W.
Those cards run much hotter.
So XL has to have around 2W or less.
@@warrax111 xl eating 2W or less? Bro, i'd like to see that.. not that i don't believe you tho..
@@paveljelinek772 dude... Geforce 2 MX is eating up 4W.
Just try to touch it's core, without heatsink, and you'll understand.
Now touch XL core without heatsink (no XL should have one from factory, because it doesnt need it) even after 3D performance.
You will feel that differance. :) It's like 60 degrees vs 100 degrees. :)
That's it... even from that, you know, XL has to be much less than 4W.
Plays *ZORK* at a mind blazing 85fps :P
add a switch
I Have a GT 610 1GB PCI, it sucks btw.
The crossed over wires are annoying me.
I would have been fine with it if there was a glob of hot glue stuck on to keep the metal at the ends of the wires apart.
SiS 6326? Garbage performance!
SiS 5597. Literally just displays a black screen in any graphics mode without the Win 9x drivers. No Linux support, so had to go. Not even the bootloader was visible!
Typically chinese... They clone it, but have no clue how it works. So it doesn´t work at all.
or doing maximum cheap in the production
I bought this same shitcard a year ago, because I had a P200 mhz with 16mb ram.. 90's pc.. I was so excited until I plugged it in, fired up the ol' gamesbox and.... nothing.. If only they would've been honest that without (your) modicifaction it is totally useless for a pc it's supposed to work on. (time correct)
they made it for newer motherboards with PCI slots (like LGA775 motherboards), as cheapest possible option, also only as display adapter (servers... so it eats up only around 1W).
They didnt make it because of retro gamers, lol.
So that's why they tested it only for 5V.