AI "Anime" - An Insult to Life Itself (re: Corridor & Netflix)
Vložit
- čas přidán 2. 03. 2023
- Did Corridor Digital just change animation forever? Boy, I sure hope not. Today, we dive into the many problems with AI Art and Animation, issues they might create in the future, and why, in their current form, they're an insult to artists, animators, and, as Miyazaki so eloquently put it, Life Itself.
#anime #artificialintelligence #animation
Support me on Patreon: / mothersbasement
Subscribe to Mother's Basement for anime and gaming videos every week: czcams.com/users/subscription_...
Validate me!
Follow me on twitter: / g0ffthew
Also on facebook: / mothersbasementofficial
In the depths of his Mother's Basement, Geoff Thew creates videos analyzing the storytelling techniques of anime, movies and video games. - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Wanna respond to a few common comments
First, I apologize for implying everyone who liked Corridor’s video has poor taste. There are definitely things to like about it in terms of writing and direction. I let my own extreme distaste for the visuals and especially the derivative process behind them colour my judgement on that point, and I’m sorry to anyone who felt insulted by that.
Second, to anyone here to comment “you’re just afraid of progress” 19:56
Third, likening AI art to “collage” is an oversimplified metaphor. I was trying to condense an extremely complicated technical process in order to keep the discussion focused on the ethics and ramifications of the tech for animation, but I probably should have gone into more detail. That said, for those claiming that AI can’t recall its training data at all, that point is simply wrong.
Source: www.vice.com/en/article/m7gznn/ai-spits-out-exact-copies-of-training-images-real-people-logos-researchers-find
You're seriously using Vice as a reliable source?
@@jeggsonvohees2201 click one of these if you prefer
gizmodo.com/ai-art-generators-ai-copyright-stable-diffusion-1850060656
the-decoder.com/ai-image-models-generate-duplicates-from-training-material-study/
www.newscientist.com/article/2358066-ai-image-generators-that-create-close-copies-could-be-a-legal-headache/
It's OK atleast u realized your mistake
these guys never finished the video lol
@@jeggsonvohees2201 vice bad
I like how someone else said it: “AI was supposed to replace manual labor so we could make more art, but instead it seems we’re intent on having AI replace art so we can do more manual labor”
AI will just replace us
No, it's definitely replaced manual labor. We're projected in the next couple years to lose about 80% of customer service workers to automation and factory positions have already surpassed those numbers.
@@rookd2067 I sincerely doubt this, i think what's actually the case is that automation has made interacting with customer service so fucking pointless that people have stopped bothering.
That came down to a mis-prediction of which type of tasks AI was going to automated first. But some of us have been warning people to watch out for this, for over a decade now.
We saw the evidence that this would soon be possible, and have been suggesting that we change some core things about how our economy works, and how individuals survive.. But noooo.. People just wanna be doubters when someone makes those kinda predictions. Gotta maintain that status quo capitalism for greedy self-centered reasons.. Can't acknowledge that where technology is heading, won't be compatible with how we do things. Artist's jobs are just the start. I only wonder how many jobs it will take, before people wake up.
Its sad since I have read many science fiction authors write about utopian scenarios where the factories would be automated to give people luxuries and more time to do things like art, science, and self-discovery of the human spirit.
Fun fact: some actors are already specifying in their contracts that no Ai can be used to have their likenesses act out or say lines that they didn't perform themselves. Which is crazy that they'd even need an addition to specify that.
LMAO, what a joke.
Sadly not that crazy given how greedy people and especially companies are, meaning of course they were always going to consider using A.I. if it meant they got more profitable in the short-term regardless of the cost to actual people in the long-term. I am only "glad" that people _might_ be wising up this bullshit already given how long it feels like it took NFTs to get called and with that idiocy still being around like crypto unfortunately.
this was a thing long before ai animation they just didnt want them to recreate their face if they died or if the didnt want to be in a movie
everyone needs that contract clause. What you think call centers arent recoding their employees voices to replace all humans with AI?
What you’re describing has already been decided in court to be illegal by the actor Crispin Glover. While he was alive, his likeness was used to make a CGI version of himself for the movie back to the future part 2, because he could not get the desired payment he wanted for his part. He fought it and won, and set a very important legal president for every actor. So it is already illegal to use the likeness of any actor for commercial use without their consent or the consent of the estate if they are deceased.
I think we should replace CEOs with AI's. It doesn't have to do anything, just like a CEO. Also saves massive amounts of money going to just one person.
Agreed! Someone needs to make a CEO replacement-AI!
Oh please, get that Reddit take out of here. CEOs do a lot and need to be intelligent and competent, otherwise they would not be paid as much as they are. Though I completely agree that replacing artists, composers, writers and so on with AI is incredibly sad in so many ways.
@@hillehai"CEOs need to be intelligent and competent"
Counterpoint: Elon Musk
@@hillehai LOOL.
Oh yeah sure Robert Iger, Adam Neumann and Elon Musk are geniuses.
What a sheep.
@@ridley2333 Being an indoctrinated child is not a virtue. You hate whomever you're told to hate like a good little cultist, so don't condescend to me.
For some reason I imagine Junji Ito creating a generator entirely based on his own art and causing it to spiral (pun intended) out into manmade horrors beyond our comprehension
Sounds like good premise for a horror story I guess although it would have to be some fictional artist based on junji ito instead of the real deal.
This would be totally Acceptable because it’s not other artists work! Would be really interesting to see!
Ooh yes! For as much as I dislike AI, they're REALLY good at making works of horror.
Speaking of Junji Ito, I wonder if the Uzumaki anime will ever get released. Seems like it's been forever since we got that teaser. I'm not saying I think they should rush it, I just hope it eventually gets finished.
@@lasercat538 I believe
With this and that netflix anime with AI backgrounds, I fear for the animators and artists who are already dealing with low wages and harsh working conditions
Pretty much all technology has the effect of reducing human labor. That includes the computer you're typing this comment on.
Can't abuse artist if you don't hire them in the first place
And they're not the only one Vtuber, music artists, engineers, designer, and so on capitalism will definitely fuck us
Edit: as not having free college universal healthcare, or good public transportation was not enough because it better to let's rich people profit form what a need because without them you are screw a highschool diploma is worth nothing these days also their some stuff the government will do better like healthcare then a private company doing things for profit and competition don't always make things better infact it can make things worst
Why?
@@Miranox2 there's a difference from reducing labour and removing it. Computers have made some jobs outdated, yes, but they made such an insane boom in NEW jobs that vastly outpaced it, like the youtuber above has done.
AI won't do this. AI will create 1 job, AI developer. The entire process, is just take some frames, take a reference, and mash them together. Most AI "animation" doesn't even make their own frames.
Watch any modern big screen animation project from dreamworks, disney, or even fucking illumination, and watch the credits. There's hundreds of people, and ai will cut that down across the industry.
Just like always, there's a great example of an animator's thumbprint on their animation in "Keep your hands off Eizoken". The animator character only realised she held her chopsticks wrong on the day their anime short was being shown off, which led to characters in that short holding their chopsticks wrong too. Her parents were watching the short and instantly recognised that she worked on it because of these chopsticks.
Eizoken is such a stellar example of what Anime can be. It not only respects its characters, but the entire medium of animation.
@@MoriMementa it has a banger OP too
chant NAM MYO HO REN GE KYO this is only way to be happy
convert to nichiren shoshu
@@sparklesparklesparkle6318 you sound like a dweeb
I am left-handed and this happens to me almost every time I draw a character holding something doing an action you would do with your dominant hand. I keep drawing the wrong hand and it's kinda frustrating when the entire composition ends up wrong for something so silly lol
I don't understand why companies are trying so hard to replace actual writers and creators? It makes no sense. I seriously hope that this ends one day.
The reason is because they are greedy companies. That is their entire point. To make as much money, and pay as few people as possible.
Why not? When there are ways to reduced our cost and makes better video for our next generation. Or you still think framing with robot and chemical staffs are not better than framing with human just for a small amount of production?
Wdum Why not? It replaces artists and writers roles in production. People will lose jobs because of that. @@KDYinCZcams
@@restfulori212 Oh spare me, destroying the livelyhood of common people who work with their hands totally okay but oh no we cant touch the laptop class D:. Stop thinking you are better than them.
Stop being ridiculous, this is a net good and try to break out of the ridiculous paradigm of Hollywood. This will allow writers and animators to be able to create their passion projects without even having to touch a major publisher. They will have their IPs that they can pump out till the end of time, yet those same writers that were "displaced" can literally on their own computers make the things they wanted at relatively zero cost. What used to cost 1m in equipment will now cost an iphone and a graphics card
Capitalism.
People say let AI do in-betweens so staffs could focus more on other things doesn’t understand that in between is a important process to learning how to animate. It’s especially important for animators who just joined the animation industry to learn in-between.
Also AI shouldn’t replace entry level jobs in creative industries in general because they can also serve as training for newcomers.
Best take I've seen in this comment section.
Great point and one that I hadn't considered!
Plus it currently can't do in-betweens anyways as seen with 60 fps anime where the in-betweens look awful
As a former animation student, absolutely.
Which if you watched the corridor video, that is clearly what happened
I always find this conversation funny, because in the archaeological world, we’re having the opposite reaction. Advancements in AI, LIDAR, and robotics are starting to make the process of physically digging up artifacts irrelevant. And sure, nothing can beat the feeling of getting in the dirt and making a great find. But now we no longer have to worry about damaging artifacts or disturbing land. And instead we can get right to studying the artifacts in question.
That is the good case of using AI to help people. Unfortunately, for creative industry and many other, it's going to take out many jobs in the future.
Imagine if AI reads all your analysis and your papers, then does all the research and writes all the papers from now on, to be cute they can even do it all in your writing style. The only human left is your team lead who's job it is to direct where they want this research project to go. Better hope the team lead is competent and doesn't have any inherent biases! That's how AI in art do.
I don't think the two are really comparable. People don't pretend that not having to physically dig artifacts up makes archeologists irrelevant the way they desperately want to use AI to replace creative people. A more fitting comparison would be my field: translation. The spread of (even horrible, jumbled and inadequate) machine translations did irreparable damage to the livelihood of translators because of how many greedy bastards used the excuse of 'just slightly worse, but it's cheap/free' machine translated texts to bully translators into lowering the prices. The field was extremely susceptible to this because it's very freelance heavy, already not held in high regard, and a lot of translators felt pressured into accepting the cutthroat prices because at the end of the day they need to eat and underpaid work is still better than no work at all.
@@seekittycat I think this is unironically where we're headed. Keep in mind, AI is currently *the worst it will ever be*. When I started my career, there was a certain task that I was told "AI will never be able to do this, its something computers are bad at, and humans are good at. So we'll always need people for this task." Three years later we automated that task. My takeaway was that nothing is safe from AI, it's just a matter of time, and it might be a lot less time than you think. I fully expect my current job to be non-existent within the next 10 years.
Fully support that argument, we've heard a good many examples of artifacts damaged just because the people (usually developers) breaking into sites and not knowing what's mixed in with the tons of dirt they've just excavated until it's too late, and then those projects get postponed indefinitely due to the speed of said archeological research.
One example of a possible application of AI in Creative Content Development might be to employ said Creative Artist to present a style (instead of said AI developers wholesale trawling the Internet of every and all copyright protected content) to the learning process and then integrating said algorithms to speed up the animation process, so animators control the fluidity of the motion instead of having to draw them frame by frame. Or even CGI processing tons of details instead of having a large number of overworked CGI artists develop that programming for just one movie (for example, LOTR, Pixar movies, etc).
There are so many options, and the shills only argument is "we don't want to pay artist for their labor". They're actively worsening the problem.
While I do fear what mainstream media does in the future, I'm encouraged that even in a late capitalist 2023 filmmakers are still using stop motion, a traditionally made new Ghibli film is coming out, many gamers enjoy indie games with weird artstyles over AAAs... I feel like the appetite for handcrafted art is still very strong, and I just have to hope that stays the case long into the future.
yeah, but it would be all indie jobs. And that's something badly paid. Humans will still create art though and that's something that will never be replaced
Aaa’s are plenty crafted.
@@Troygdesign true, not saying they're not. I was more hinting at artstyles that aren't cutting edge or photoreal. 2D sprite illustrations, pixel art, hand drawn visuals like you see in Cuphead...
@@FarolitoSupremo indie games can be just as good if not better than aaa games. I don’t know why you think they’re subpar
@@Data-Expungeded it's not about quality, in fact for me it's even better, but indie industry is supported by the public only. Though the money goes more directly to the creators there are plenty projects that doesn't make it. It's a good way for art but luck is a huge factor to mantain the business
I was hoping AI would do tedious task for us, make money for us, so we can focus on things we like such as art, music, literature,etc.
You have the right mindset. I like it. But the sad truth is that we still will be doing hard labor and AI will only make the rich richer.
@@SensetsFucking James Cameron was right after all.
get involved with the sector instead of being afraid
@@9r0t0typ3 and you shall maybe use your grey cells a bit instead of thinking that these AI are just tools.
And this is exactly the problem with almost everybody. It is just a motter of time and I belueve a short timespan to be honest, in which they will achieve selfawareness. Than ypu cannot just treat them as tools.
Watch the movie the artifice girl. I believe you will like it, plus it doesn't have such a destructive vision about AI as most movies.
@@9r0t0typ3or you could reject the cyberpunk dystopia instead of actively embracing it
Well some recent good news is that the Writers Guild of America is proposing a rule banning AI from the writers room (again thoughthis is a union rule for contract negotiations not making AI straight up illegal) so the best case scenario is for the Animation Guild to do the same with AI art, at least in terms of counteracting that scary hypothetical of it affecting the commercial animation sphere
That will end up like MLB's ban on PED's, but harder to test for.
Aaaand admittedly this comment has aged quite a lot in light of the WGA strike…best of luck to them
@@SiRenfield How does it age now?
@@thebigbadbone7238 Not great I admit 😵💫
Anime is a good example of a place where AI tools can be useful to creators, but Ai is not useful as a creator. Definitely a workable use of an Ai tool would be to generate Interframes to transition between Keyframes as a post processing step. As the lawyers are saying, "AI will not replace Lawyers, Lawyers with AI assistance will replace Lawyers without it".
The labor issue is a different issue entirely. The current industry is relying on never ending crunch to get the product out the door with tiny underpaid teams. Every tool introduced to make workers more productive has the potential to improve work conditions, or to demand more output. Places that already have strong labor laws, unions, or pro-worker cultures will see workers more productive and happy. But any company already exploiting workers will exploit them for more and pay less.
The cotton gin could have made workers lives better, instead it made cotton slavery profitable.
"The cotton gin could have made workers lives better, instead it made cotton slavery profitable."
lol, stealing this.
love the thoughts towards the labor issue
You are shortsighted as fuck and assume this tech ends here LAMAO.
God, this is soooooo true. I was trying to figure out how to say this. Like it doesn't HAVE to be bad. I know so many artists who lose productivity due to RMI and this has real potential to cut down on that.
I think every frame in traditional animation is artistic, ai generating whole frames would detract from the authenticity of the animation imo. Coloring is a better use of ai since the process is mostly just meticulous with little creative input.
This technology could a blessing with coloring, in-betweens, composition, etc. Allowing you to focus on just the key elements of your story, color palette, visual look and more. But let's be honest, companies are salivating at the thought of cutting jobs in exchange for soulless products.
They already farm these jobs out to slave-labor in Taiwan, so you lose nothing by automating it. Instead you remove an industry that exploits workers.
why are just the key elements art? Why is that the only talent you respect?
The technology and attitude displayed by Corridor's video in question CANNOT be used to inbetween or color because that isn't at all what they were doing. That would be a different use of ai.
And no one is saying that ai can't be used well. We're saying that people, like Corridor, are championing it's unethical, anti-art, anti-artist use. As will corporations and plenty of other non-artists. The bad use is still out that, and it will be exploited and harm massive artists, industries and our culture itself, if you ask me. As ai can do "the key elements" as well...
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue1922 The future is now, old man.
@@Null_ExperisRespect is a virtue, young ugly dancing puppet.
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue1922 as a profesional animator I agree with vinjass -not trying to deminish the work of so many people, myself included in my formative years, but just to say that while some have intrinsic formative value, many of those works are mostly chores, specially coloring- and I'm also speaking from the perspective of an indie creator. Shinkai's example is impressive but still felt obtuse in its day, and it still does. We champion the achievement, and that can't be taken away from it, but the end result could have been done with less pain and effort, in a shorter time-span, allowing him to create more indie stuff and better develope his voice before jumping to the industry (I'm one to think he has always lacked a bit in the storytelling department, and while Your Name delivers in every sense, Weathering With You shows several of the flaws he, in my opinion, exhibited in his earlier work, even if the degree of polish is much higher).
in a book by hayao miyazaki (the starting point by the way, its a great book), he talked about the same mass push of media like movies and such. with the thousands of pieces of media that come out nearly weekly, they lose that amount of love and care a normal media piece should have. if this thing with ai continues, every piece of media feels soulless, with little to no actual time part into it.
Naw. Whatever shows that overuse AI will fall flat and be forgotten. While all the stuff still being mostly made by people who love what they do will be remembered.
@@frenchfriedbagel7035 I can resume it on that SpongeBob meme where King Neptune makes tons of Krabby Patties while he only makes one, only this time it's endless AI garbage versus a human made animation made with love and care.
@@dragondelsur5156Yep, Quality over quantity
If you think about it, this all sort of roots back to the idea that art and entertainment aren’t exactly “necessary” in the same way that other products and services can be. People can technically live without artwork, movies, music, so the only standard that makes the industry remotely worth it in the eyes of the owners is how much money it makes them, and how much money is dictated by whether people choose to spend their money on it, for meeting their quality standards:
It’s a bummer for the artists and dedicated fans who care about the craft, and as an artist myself it stings quite a bit to know that I can’t ever make a career out of my real passion, but if corporations are appeasing the masses while spending less, that tells them it’s a “good business model,” and thus they need to take that route in order to stay competitive.
It’s why movie franchises exist, but also why they cannot last forever. It is easier for viewers to latch onto characters they already know, but after a while the material will run dry and stop being interesting. The movie studios, however, still need to keep creating content that pulls in their audience somehow, and there is no way of telling if original material will do that. Even if it is good, the marketing, business opportunities, and distribution circumstances may not allow it to get off the ground. It doesn’t matter how much people like it or what integrity it has. All that matters is how much they make for the company, to allow them to keep creating more.
These skills take several years for people to develop, and so they can’t just switch to a new profession after making a few hits. Art and media companies cannot subsist in a capitalist society, in the same way that food companies and service companies can, without cutting corners and finding ways to save money. Even on an independent level too, creators on CZcams can only do what they do because it’s profitable. If there was no money in CZcams it wouldn’t be near at its current scale.
It breaks my heart that it’s the reality we’ve come to, but it seems that AI is going to be the way that media moves forward from the business perspective alone. If we want to prioritize artistic integrity, then we’ll instead need to support independent artists and creators that follow their hobbies and passions outside of the corporate world. It may mean that these creators can’t create massive movie or show projects on the scale of the average person’s content consumption, unless they get enough support to make it their full time job, but we will either need to settle for less output or less quality. We cannot get both high output and high quality without somebody getting squeeze at the bottom.
You hit the nail on the head here, especially in the first paragraph.
Nice advocation for your slave-masters. Things can be different.
Also food is necessary. Hasn't stopped greedy people from creating toxic crap and selling it as 'food'. Wake-up.
This reminds me of when I worked on a 2D animated feature film production a few years ago, me and my extremely talented coworkers doing rough animation. Trust me that these people are good at what they do. But then the studio confirmed to us that all clean-up (retracing the rough animation into smooth, clearly defined lines ready for coloring) and inbetweening (adding more frames inbetween the key poses, breakdowns etc to make the animation smoother) would be done completely through an automated computer program. You could see all our faces droop in disappointment when we saw the first results. Any sense of weight or timing was completely gone, everything felt floaty and lacking of all the charm that was there in the rough animation we did.
There's definitely things AI can do to make our jobs a little easier like automated coloring, but things like this make it incredibly clear that they just cannot replicate the human eye for detail. It can't think like us about how drawing an inbetween not precisely in the middle of two frames but closer to one or the other, or delaying one frame in favor of another, can change the animation to be more appealing. It just goes the easy boring way every time.
But that's a question of what the AI is good for and what it's bad for. Not a question of "it wasn't made by a human by hand, so it's bad and plagiarism"
This made me remember this Noodle video about 60 fps animations. It was an amazing video
It is still sourcing from others' original works though.
Please tell me the studio could see how bad the end result was and changed course....please tell me how this story ends
@@petrsevcik5044 both issues can exist with AI generated art and animation, it's not just one or the other
The issue with AI in general is it’s being used as a replacement, and not a tool, like it should be used.
If you truly think that AI would do the industry good, if it was used by animators as a "tool" (for what exactly, btw?), ask an animator what they think about potential help from an AI.
I'm pretty sure they would be a lot less excited about it than the people who think of it as a way to bypass artists to generate images.
Depends on how you use it. Tho Some 3d artists use as an inspiration tool for a particular character design to work from and direction for projects.
@@CycloneFox I'm not gonna get too into it, but there are already tons of AI assisted art tools in a bunch of art programs. Just not "stable diffusion" as a technology specifically.
Corridor is usually pretty good at specifically espousing just the tools, this one was a big leap in the wrong direction
that is exactly the problem Monder AI is not true AI. it is just a form of panter recognition software with some fantastic applications as it com be applied to. it can really replace people. It can only improve their abilities. To bad the people that run ower world see this technology as a way to do away with working to grow then own power and money. forgetting that those workers are there consumer base
@@PrismZet why because it upset the anime artists in particular?
I've never been afriad of AI itself. I'm afraid of the people using it.
I think this tech is currently the worst it's going to be since it's new tech. Personally I think it would be stupid to think that companies will not try to use this to cut out artists, they definitely will. If a company can save money by using new tech instead of hiring an artist they will, it's just how businesses work.
True but since it's cheaper studios will end up making more content, make more money therefore again more content and people will get hired artists included. The ones that should be worried are companies like adobe if they don't keep up with ai technology. That's how I see it but who knows for sure
@@UboaSan You can see it now with Nvidia vs AMD, one is hellbent on AI and the other honestly is lacking.
Sucks to be human, I guess.
Regular, average joes are already doing that. Some of them even tell people to embrace the new tech.
@@CarloNassar When it comes to making money off of it, though, do you really think the "average joes" are gonna stay in first place?
let's be real here Disney WILL take advantage of this technology if given the change. They've already settled for remaking their masterpieces into soulless corporate cashgrabs, AI art might (and hopefully won't) be the next evolution of that
Animation has been AI for a long time.
The cost of animation already made disney kill their 2d animation movies. Maybe now well get them back. But with anyone having access to this. Disneys shit writing could allow for a different studio to take over
It won't just be companies, though. Regular people not affiliated with companies are already praising these AI art tools and making excuses to try to give justifiable arguments. So it's already causing damage before companies are involved.
Edit: Dare I say that the normal people that try to make excuses and actually support the AI art tools are WORSE than the corporate executives and CEOs people complain about online.
@@CarloNassar It's not AI that's causing the problems.
@@MicheleDelGiudice-mykys I know. I was just responding to what DorkMagnet said about companies taking advantage of the technology. My point is to add that regular people are already doing it.
I had an interesting conversation with a friend after we went to a live talk and demo of AI art programs. They were making a case that artists should think of AI as a tool to help produce art and not scorn it if it could replace traditional artists' work. I asked their thoughts on stop-motion animation, and why it still exists if CG animation exists. They said that stop-motion is cool and stylized and jittery. I said that stop-motion still exists because people WANT to MAKE it. It requires specific skills, problem solving, and above all a passion for the process. AI will never really replace artists, but it could easily shrink the opportunities for people to live doing what they love (specially for a reasonable rates).
AI can't replace human intent, we can create something cohesive, the big way that I see AI tools working out is to effectively reduce production times and workloads by making AI's create roughs of scenes that professional animators can fix or work with as a baseline, or even where an animator creates the frames of the animation and have an AI colour it based on pre existing character sheets and designs, feeding it lighting directions a shot relative to 3D space.
Exactly. It's like how artists originally freaked out over the invention of the camera thinking it would put them out of business
I lean on the position that ai technology can be a useful creative tool, however I am also pessimistic about ai tools because we live in a capitalistic society.
People complain about how unoriginal movies are today? Its gonna get a whole lot worse.
@@noahnadji I mean for the "painters when cameras were introduced" example, there's a pretty big difference. A camera isn't printing out an oil painting or a beautiful fresco. To this day, you can easily see the difference in mediums and they're both valued differently. AI at it's current state has already shown pieces that are comparable if not identical to a lot of digital art out there (to the point where I've fallen for AI art that I thought was drawn normally). There's obviously still a ton of kinks in it, though I'm fine with AI art existing but without proper limitations and laws, the digital art world may see some major problems.
@@ilo3456 "Yet"
Their video is not even animation at all. It is just a live action with filter.
I mean you’re kind of right about the live action filter. Their video is a demonstation on how ai is capable of producing an animation style that can be called anime (although maybe not of the best quality at the moment). A more correct term would be that the ai is rotorscoping their video feed but that excludes the enviorment, camera angles and the visual effect added on later in the production. Although the animators future might seem grim, try to see what amazing potential this has for the animation industry.
What it is that I want to say is that whether you are looking forward to this or not, it is all quite impressive stuff.
@@tritium2733 Iit definitely is impressive and a lot about it is very useful. But I study animation and to call this animation is quite an insult. It misses everything about what animation is. It is rotoscoping as you said and nothing more than that
At least rotoscoping involves tracing over it frame by frame!
If the technology replaces artist as a career for monetary reasons, then entire generations will go the way of the cobbler. We'll loose techniques and information, since it won't be passed down, as nobody can make a living doing it. Sure, we'll have a handful of branded AI that reuse old art, but we won't see anything stunning or new. Sadly, I do think this technology is only going to get better and cheaper, meaning it's unlikely any amount of push against it will work.
"There is always going to be someone who does things the easy way, but that should not stop you from doing things the right way." - the old lady from Teen Titans
but developing the method to do things the easy way is still hard for example boiling water....
we had to chop and dry firewood and then create fire and place a pot with water to boil it. that entire process will take at least 1 hour.
now we just pour water in a kettle and plug it to a socket and in 10 minutes boiling water is ready...its easy and takes less time ....but ....someone had to work really hard to invent that technology so that its safe and easy to use....
just like that corridor is developing this technology so that even a noob like me who has no training in vfx or art or any form of visual format can just film some scenes on their crappy phone and develop a story that they can share with the world. DO keep in mind that its still not an easy process since the only part of making an anime that has become easy is the animation part...you would still have to act or film the scenes and check and correct stuff just like regular anime. the process has now become much similar to making a live action movie.
@@anxarts7424 A) For the sort of thing you described this should be fine. B) You still have to do a ton of touch ups to make sure the images are consistent and that there's minimal flickering.
but it does tho, it does
i learned guitar since i was 4 and it was somewhat forced on me but i liked it im good at it i like to think im talented however i used to book way more gigs and collaborations sometimes studios would make suggestions to the artist and i would show up but now most people use computers they play a short sample and have the computer build on the rest of it and that was 18 years ago now we literally have AI Music, so no, money talks and people for the most part will save on money rather doing something the "right way"
Problem is we are in capitalism, whoever gets the most profit survives, doesn't matter your ethics.
It took 10 people 2 months to do that 7 minutes of animation... very easy
The best counter culture for AI animation is PAY YOUR ARTISTS. Like you mentioned, the animator shortage is a shortage of artists, its a shortage of artists being paid appropriately. They have good working environments then not only will current artist be motivated to put out more work, new artists will be motivated to look for work in studios to make their own mark with their art.
Why would animation studios pay artists more when persuing AI is much more efficient and inexpensive.
Money from where? I think it's getting harder and harder to get enough for it these days.
I feel like you're looking at the situation backwards. Paying artists well isn't a solution to AI art, AI art is a solution to paying artists anything. AI art exists as a cheaper alternative to hiring artists.
The fact that this comment is barely getting bumped up at all speaks volumes. People are quick to call out something they don't like, but not as willing to inconvenience themselves to aid the solution if it costs them something.
@@selucviljoen1994 Why do you need a studio if you could just work another job while your Ai is busy bringing your idea to life?
I'm always surprised that not many people point this out, but we've already seen something similar happen in another industry: the translation industry. The rise of easy to use and free software like google translate has caused a lot of suffering for translators. Big companies would often run whatever needs to be translated through translate and then hiring a translator to do touchups (if at all let's be honest). They have had to accept lower wages because otherwise companies would just ignore them completely and just use those softwares. We also know how much trouble those softwares have with translating longer, more complex sentences. So translators have had to accept lower wages and in some cases harder work because they were handed trash translations. I'm not saying that this is exactly what will happen in the art industry, but we do have something to compare it to, but I hope that I'm wrong
@@8qk67acq5 it might not be perfect but look at how far it’s gotten in a relatively short time. Google Translate can translate whole sentences now, with varying accuracy, but it’s an evolving process and will just get better. Translators are still better, but big companies like saving money
@@scarletcroc3821 I would say that with the creation of ChatGPT, translation as a profession is more at risk than ever. MTL is usually garbage because while the process has gotten better, it's still mostly doing a word for word translation. With something like ChatGPT, which basically understand how a language is supposed to sound and can also deal with nuance? Yeah, translators might truly become an endangered species in places that have access to the tech.
I mean yeah ok. But life moves on if theres no demand for a human translator compared to an instant free app then it is what it is. This sort of thing happens all the time. And the animation industry is basically nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Let's be real here. Every translator does the same thing: put the text into google Translate, and touch up the result. Some sentences will have to be rewritten. Some words changed, but Google Translate is doing a fantastic job. I always use it translating longer texts between languages I speak. And it works fabulous, I wouldn't trust it to be 100% correct though.
Came here after the Secret Invasion AI controversy. I would love to hear you talk about it even though it might not be anime related.
As an artist, I will say this:
AI art is an undeniably groundbreaking innovation that has excellent uses (via referencing and making things MUCH easier for animators/illustrators in general). We should constantly adapt to new technology like this and use it to improve our own work and become more efficient.
BUT, it's so saddening to see users blatantly STEAL artists definitive styles and work (i.e., Sam Yang) and pass it off as their own "art." No, it's not like the controversy around photography when the camera was invented. At least during that time photographers sought to make their own creative work. But from what I've seen recently from "AI artists," it's a fucking robbery.
Current image generators were not made with creative work in mind. They are made as derivative vending machines to sell visual treats. They are stagnant they have diminishing returns and they need to be constantly fed images with specialized training to make anything worthwhile. Not to mention the AI art scene is quickly filling up with scammers and grifters that have no interest in the medium they are cannibalizing and just want to make a quick buck. It is truly dreadful not only for the people who make art, but also the people who love and cherish the craft, passion and skill that artists put into their work.
How do you propose this be stopped?
"Stealing" style is BS. Artists are capable of drawing in a specific style with no issue, and have for all of human history. The idea of a style being something AI just "steals" is another attempt to demonize AI art by people who dont understand the first thing about it
@@aidanquiett668 my dude try copy eichiro oda artstyle and say it to the internet this is my artstyle with no eichiro oda reference whatsoever. i will take the popcorn to see what happen next.
@@Zanroff I'll second that question; because it's genuinely a fair one.
Didn't Disney have a problem like this reported recently. They wanted to do some classic 2D animation work and found out like 90% of there animators only knew how tondo cgi 3d work???
Because they laid off and fired all of the classic 2D artists in the 2000's, you mean?
@@Brasswatchman they could grab some from the tv side if they wanted too
@@Dave102693 You'd think. But from what I hear, the various Disney divisions tend to be remarkably territorial.
@@BrasswatchmanExactly. Fuck Disney. I hope Dreamworks keeps its integrity.
@@tappydani9378 They're Hollywood studios. "Integrity" is not -- and never has been -- in the cards.
as an artist i used to be like 'maaaan i wish i could just project the exact idea in my mind right onto the paper i can't get it to look right'. i take that back
x2
Carefull what you wish for
because you realized that other people could also do that, maybe potentially even better than you?
even if that was the case we're not even sure if the image inside our head is clear, it's rather abstract and vauge most of the time. ( not to mention at least one percent of the population can't produce mental images inside their head like a regular person does, which is about 79 million of em )
@@mike_theskinny8646 I guess I represent the 1% because my head is literally the database of my stories.
Hasnt humanity learnt that its never a good idea to discourage art students?
Lmao WWIII confirmed
Whats that supposed to mean ? Man you weebs are always edgy and dangerous for society
not gonna lie, the idea to make revolution in large scale is coming to mind , but the moral barrier is what kept it from happening.
New Hitler is gonna appear
It allows for a wave of new artists, those who previously did not possess the skills and or time/dedication to learn such a skill, just because it is hard does not mean we should not make it easier, there is value in the time those people spent to learn that skill, but that shouldn't restrict the skill, that is toxic behavior
I think the biggest fear an up-and-coming artist is going to have is that as soon as they manage to hone their art to be unique and recognizable as their own, it won't take long for someone else to train an AI on said art, thus establishing themselves or reinvigorating their own brand using an unknown artist's style.
That sounds more like a marketing issue than AI issue. If an artist can't develop a loyal fanbase as they train themselves, then they're going to fail either way.
They can have a loyal fan base and still be upset someone stole their art style just when they were getting established.
The AI can only replicate the style of the artist. So if the artist themselves are creative then it won't be an issue even if they have their art used by AI.
@@Whitedudeabove People seem to ignore that style isn't copyrightable. Only characters (IP) and images (copyright).
@@WoonStruck perhaps not for long. Laws changes/updates all the time to fit in with the society environment for the better or worse.
AI bros will make entire video essays about how AI is the future and will replace everything yet won’t have AI white their essay.
the ironic part is that one youtuber who tried doing that got shit on because of how bad the videos visuals were and how obvious it was.
@@jico5147Kwebbelkop?
@@edschelchang6123 yeah
Hello Geoff, something I want to add as an artist that has been to school for some years, AI art is not trained to make art as it is not trained in the fundamentals of art as well. When an artist studies another's work, they often have an understanding of things like line, shape, composition and so and so on.
AI is fed images that were made by artists that have a learned or instinctual understanding of these fundamentals. Artist trained in fundamentals should be able to create anything they can image or think of because they are fundamentals. The AI are not trained to do that. You can feed it a thousand images of cute anime girls and it can create cute anime girls but if you ask it to change the pose? If it's not trained, it doesn't work.
This is why so many AI images are so shit with anatomy and things like extreme perspective, they are not trained and do not have the understanding that humans learn through watching things in motion for years upon years of life. Great video and also, posting for view is not consent to use another artists work, especially given the way that AI "Studies" art.
(Edit) something I wanted to add really quickly. Another issue with AI art is that it generates finished artworks. One if the best parts of arts is the futzing around it takes to make some art pieces. I mentioned earlier extreme perspective and by that I meant things like foreshortening. I have drawn the classic and foreshortened pose, "character punching at viewer/camera", dozens of times and each time I have to futz about with it, control z-ing and erasing until I get something that works. Asking an AI images generator will give you a finished drawing based on it's training material and most artists do not foreshorten a pose the same. We all have different preferences with this kind of image.
Art is about the end result, yes, especially for projects and jobs like animation work and character designer, but even in professional settings, an artist doesn't make one drawing for these things. They play and erase and create multiple versions. Clicking generate for an AI images generator will not get you a barrage of similar images, even with the same prompt, you'll receive a barrage of wildly different but related images.
Sorry for long post with edit, this is a very complicated subject to discuss and I don't want to come off as elitist because artist don't need to study the fundamentals like I did with school, but learning them does give an artist a greater ability to creat anything they want. Thanks for reading and have a nice day.
If your a good artist, this can be used as a short hand.
Extreme perspective can be done, if the artist learns how to do it.
I don't see the difference between photoshoping images and this.
like 90% of thumbnails are just copy paste + photoshop.
Ai will learn the fundamentals in time.
@@LifenKnight I have used stable diffusion extensively and I can tell you the difference: AI's need extensive datasets to do specific work, and even more training to be consistent. You can't make new concept with an AI only call back existing concepts and awkwardly mash them together. To make something useful and production ready, Say you want to create a new alien species: A real artist needs to draw numerous images of this species and feed it to the AI so that the system can churn out some more awkward images, and then a real artist has to refine them. The way it is made right now it is not a creative tool. It is a derivative vending machine. So even as a short hand you are better off using real photos or learning from the work of real artists with real knowledge.
AI has actually gotten perfect with anatomy, The 10 finger and odd eyes are a thing of the past now, its crazy what it can accomplish now and corridors work is a testament to that
Unfortunately as an artist who understand the tech, that's wrong. The issue is that the bigger the model, the more they can apply these knowledges, you are talking about ai that runs on consumer grade computer, the ai is learning rules rather than collage. That's easily proven by inspecting what each neuron layer learn, and what you see are lines, shapes and composition. Hands are hard to learn, partly because of the size of inputs during training, part due to the low number of parameters consumer level ai can actually process (but if you had infinite time for training, they will eventually learn). But it's true they don't have concepts of motion, as it's not part of the training. Though model learning motion are starting to appear.
As a writer, the ChatGPT fiasco is driving me up a wall. In some circles I've heard that the best possible outcome for indie writers is that they can actually upsell their work for a premium by advertising as "human made". AI writing has effectively added a tier below F-tier to the fiction scene.
There's F tier dime a dozen works, and then there's the torrents of these AI gutter trash being pumped out. Plainly put, anything below "have some potential" is beneath any attention given.
I'm editing a novel, my uncle asked me today if I used ChatGPT for help, I told him my audience is over eight years old.
This is early days. We are at the start not the end.
Sure, you can say that now.. But give it a year or two. If the rate it's advanced until now continues, then it won't be long until it's capable of writing better than most humans.. And we'll have to rethink all this yet again.. Course at that point we may have to rethink some things about capitalism itself.
@@GrumpDog "most humans" is already a subjective statement. Some people like James Baldwin, some people like Shakespeare, some people like comic books, etc. If all you can create is a simulacra, then all you can get for an audience is a fraction of that existing audience within that niche. That still leaves the possibility of anything new and therefore a new audience.
idk if you had a hand in this, but 3 months into the future we are actually using AI as an insult, so props to you
AI generated art right now is just an easier and quicker way to make shitty product, non of it can truly replace human work, it's just a bad trend of AI and flood of bad AI generated pic and art work that looks all the same.
@@StarlightDew “these bros” who’s bros? Me bros or them bros? Cause I’m not a degenerate who has anime woman being a dude as my profile picture
I could always flock to Marvel or Custom Comics I don’t watch anime and don’t intend to be part of such a cringe fandom lol
I do art as a hobby so this ai shit don’t affect me so I would appreciate it if you anti bros
stop grouping me with you stupid dipshits
I think something people forget is an artist has an inherent style unique to them regardless of what style they actually draw in, like handwriting. When people ask "how do you find your style" they are met with "it comes to you in time" cause it's actually fucking true. A style is a synthesis of your interests, your experience as a human, and the unique development of your personal motor skills. "Then how do pros work on a show that has a style that isn't theirs?" A pro got REALLY good at masking their own unique "art tics" and also has a very very specifically designed model sheet to work from (goes over line weight, does and donts, subtle shape language, even down to the fucking severity of curves). My style has developed just naturally over time and I hate drawing fanart cause it never looks like what I want it to look like cause I can't really break from my motor skill decided style. This has actually been an issue for me professionally as I was a background artist on a kids show for a month before I was let go and I had a lot of personal art tics that got in the way of the style of the show. Y'know those Sakuga superfans that can pick out an animators shot cause of how the lines feel or the shadows are drawn or even down to subtle choices in extraneous lines? Yeah, that's the core motor skills of the pro bleeding through the style of the work itself. The way shows (especially good ones) stay consistent is they have a very talented animation director (as well as a character designer and director) who gives notes that massage drawings into the correct style. It is not as simple as "artist sees art, steals wholesale" there is ALWAYS a tiny piece of whatever human made whatever thing in all aspects of current animation, even if it's really hard to see. I can guarantee you, the animations I do for work are uniquely mine in comparison to my coworker on the same project cause I have slightly different sensibilities in timing.
Anyone who supports this shit, give us respect cause god knows the fuckers at the big studios signing our paychecks don't.
Yep ,unless you use it just in svenes that are shott and meant to be nightmare fuel, you need people put in their experience at least. Even ed wood has a style. A way of , like even nad good needs human artists.
Also there is in good art so much revamping and reflecting on even basiecsof basic drawings, that is work.
Not even working about pros who made it an expertise in their style that can also do whatever someone loosely wants.
That's really fascinating and honestly beautiful that people have to try so hard to suppress their own unique style and it still doesn't 100% work. It's true when they say you can't be anyone other than yourself.
If it’s so impossible for people to keep themselves from leaking into their work, does the programmer not leak into the ai？maybe we aren’t discerning enough to see it yet
As moronic it may sound, that seems like a you problem. I don't know exactly what do you want from people like me that is looking forward to the potential of the tool. If AI can not only meet, but surpass human quality art, you can't just expect me not consuming the product.
This post fill to the brim with intellectual dishonesty
The AI created music video in that one episode of Carol and Tuesday is actually a better situation than the one you're laying out here Geoff because the AI there was a sentient being with the ability to make artistic choices--albeit a sentient lazy shyster whose artistic choices were terrible and incompetent drek
Would you recommend watching it subbed or dubbed?
@@archlectoryarvi2873 I I may, I watched it subbed, but the dub is so remarkably good I would recommend it dubbed, unless you're like me who always prefer subbed, which I don't think is the case. C&T is actually the only anime I've ever seen that I managed to watch dubbed as well as subbed.
It's interesting how we got an Anime that shows problems of automated creative work, yet people are out here defending this stuff
They're so busy dreaming of a future we won't have that they completely disregard what they damage on their way
Awh no they're coming for my profession also 😭 (ill write better music grrr)
@@justanotherpiccplayer3511 Go gettem 😈
watched this while I was drawing!
Fuck AI art!
Never stop drawing
I already see the writing on the wall for this when it comes to being an author. As we speak I am almost done editing a novel that I've been working on for over 2 years, and put every waking moment into that I could. And AI poses a huge threat to me and others who want to break into an already very difficult to break into industry... This becomes a question of will we stop corporations from using AI to write slop then send it off to a team of editors to fix it before publishing it... Genuinely scary thought if AI ever gets good enough to do it.
I encourage everyone to just watch Vampire Hunter D Bloodlust. It's a 23 year old masterpiece and barely anyone talks about it
Still have the DVD, maybe I should pop it in on some cozy night and watch it with some popcorn.
Kawajiri? Based
I watched that recently for the first time and I was blown away! Absolutely beautiful...
For the record, Corridor Crew did a similar shout-out to the one you just did in their video.
@@solanumlycopersicum5594
Yeah, shout-out in comments is just a positive bit though, when 5-20 second segment in video is barely acknowledgement, for it's effect on the final work-
Carole and Tuesday is not only a great anime, but has easily some of the best music ever produced for an anime. Like if real artists released those songs they would stand a very good chance of being very successful.
Even their side characters put out songs I listen to regularly. Milkyway is probably my wife's favorite song.
I'm so annoyed that the Denzel Curry tracks were never released separately. Discovering Maika Loubte through the show was fun tho.
And did! Thundercat released unrequited love on his album months later.
mermaid sisters 4 life
I happened to be watching it anyway, and a thought that constantly crossed my mind is that if you put on any of Angela's songs and told me they were on the Top 40 I'd believe you, which is impressive in two ways - that the music is that good, and that Angela is supposed to be making that exact type of music in-universe.
As an animator fresh out of college, thank you for denouncing the threat AI presents to the industry. My future career, and paying off student loans depend on this kind of pushback, unfortunately I can’t say with 100% certainty it’s going to matter if it becomes financially viable but I am glad that there are people outside the industry that are passionate enough about it like yourself to push back with your platform.
If it makes you feel better almost every career is likely going to be automated in 10 years.
@@aminulhussain2277 and we'll all have UBI and live happily ever after. Any more fairytales?
@@dark0al097 No. Because what I was talking about is reality.
@@aminulhussain2277That definitely didn't make it any better.
The thing mr basement keeps ignoring is that the process Corridor created for the video isn't "put prompt into ai, ai spits out completely animated content".
There's still artistic intent in the process, just not in the creation of the actual images. Some of the things they did with the camerawork in order to emulate the insane angles and foreshortening in anime is actually really clever and an interesting process. I would MUCH rather watch a show that looks like Anime Rock Paper Scissors than the 3D CG anime that gets spat out on Netflix at a constant basis. Mr basement saw something he didn't like, decided to get angry about it and then he stopped thinking.
Update almost a year later: they’ve seemed to have quietly stepped back from this stance of “AI can replace traditional animation” possibly because of the recent writers and actor strikes, kinda like they did on their stance on NFTs. They seem to be promoting traditional animation a lot more with their “animators react to ___” show.
They will always follow shamelessly the trend to get clicks
as an artist who's supposed to choose universities now and wanted to pursue animation, seeing the state the industry is in makes me very discouraged to choose that path. as if the labour standards weren't dog shit enough already.
Ppl can feel how the wanna feel about it but straight up capatilism is destroying art don't care how they feel about it, its a true statement.
@@Adatari_MTG Yeah, artist majors are worthless except for creating a network/getting to know people on the industry
think of it this way, through AI you'll now have an affordable tool/path to get your original art into a cool thing.
After watching actual artists video on this particular corridor vid I'm convinced Geoff is way off the mark and find his video cringe now.
It’s a tool bro, you will never be able to make something on your own that’s as good as a team that requires money to make. With AI you can.
Are you a background artist? A character designer? An effects artist?
You can’t be all 3 and you can’t afford all 3.
Use the tool and bring your vision to life.
Are you going to call people that use a Wacom tablet or do digital art fakes because they didn’t use store bought paint on a canvas or paper?
@@michaels9595 you don't even know how insulting of a sentence that is lol. my or any artist's original art is cool enough without mushing it through an ai. ai gives you the imitation of a drawing not a drawing.
The AI debate has me searching out real artists' Redbubble accounts and commission info. It's a tiny thing, but even buying a few bucks worth of stickers can help keep this industry alive. Even if we can't stop big companies prioritizing profits over quality, we can still support the arts in our own small ways.
Genuinely glad someone cares.
As someone just starting you actually give me hope, thank you
Same as paying for Anime or for a creators Patreon. Pay for thing you want more of.
I'm doing my small part, always hating on AI generated "comics" that appear on Reddit. These people who have no idea about art need to see that their bs is NOT appreciated.
@@cynxmanga if the whole NFT debacle thought us something is that bullying works
We should bully AI Art as well
We should bully AI Art to the point it is no longer profitable
As an artist I appreciate you speaking out on this issue.
it's not an issue though?
@@MonkeyGaming75 It literally is. It is a capitalist assault on creativity, passion and skill.
of all the things to sell this new idea on, why did they choose a concept based so heavily around hands, the literal one thing everyone shits on AI for not being able to do even remotely well?
In the mainstream, the value of any kind of skilled labor is regularly ridiculed while people who make bank for doing nothing are worshiped as role models (landlords,nft and crypto bros etc). Feels like an extension of that problem that is now made worse. A lot of pro-AI imagery folks heavily discredits the time and effort that goes into making not just good art but even good photographs, so they don't consider it stealing because they see no value in the labor of others. They seem to regularly unironically call artists as "elitists", which even a non-artist coder like myself can smell the bullshit a mile away.
I've noticed that most of those doing it have vastly over-estimated their intelligence, and tend to be massive pieces of garbage with chips on their shoulders.
I just feel like art isn't the place to be concerned about "stealing". Like there are entire genres of art that either are based on or heavily involve taking works of other artists and doing something with it without the permission or approval of the artist. Not to mention many great and important works in art history did take things from other works. Few if any Andy Warhol works where 100% original in terms of him making what's in it, basically all of his most famous and influential works involved taking designs or images other artists made and then adapting them without asking consent. Practicing by taking someone else's work and trying to replicate it to push your own development is something basically every artist has done countless times as they evolved.
I think if there's any place the concept of stealing should hold the least weight and be the least taboo, it's art. Art has such an immense history with "stealing" works, designs, images, styles, concepts, etc, from other artists. And largely they aren't seen as wrong for doing it, it's excused as "how art works" or "how the medium is evolved". But because now the stealing is something that challenges the artists this guiding principle that has been a part of art for as long as there has been art is being thrown aside as if it's not the fundamental foundation to the medium that it is.
And I'm gonna be honest, the fact that the "automation replacing those in fields of work" discourse has never been more popular or upfront within progressive circles than with this debate regarding artists, and that months into this discourse we are still focused on artists despite the fact that this is a far more pressing and important issue pertaining to manual labor workers, tells me there is a decent level of elitism present. Like I'm sorry, this isn't a new problem, nor are artists the biggest victims to the problem, nor are they the most important victims of this problem, nor are they the most common victims of this problem, and yet the loudness of this discourse exclusively in reference to artists makes it sound that way. I can't really see that as anything other than elitism of artists thinking they are more special and deserving of this discourse than they are.
@@gryph0n55Not true,that involves a lot of personal touch,reflecting, reworking,ideas .
Which AIs are bad at. And humans pretty good. So when human make it distinct in the process, yeah art, legit. But AIs arent as good at that. Like humans are way more than a sum of their experiences. With all the feedback that automatically goes in creating art there. And whatever else. AIs mostly, well are the sum.
@@gryph0n55rt is considered human, very human, important because its human.
And while thèe can be elitism, seriously, sone art devalued more than others often, and taste,
There is no elitism to say artists are undervalued and are experts at what they are doing.
Warhol was basically shitposting with enough of his which makes it more commentary art. And yes shitposting, is an art too (dadaism)
@@gryph0n55 It sounds like you are actively being vindictive against artists for some reason. Humans learning from the works of other humans is nowhere near the same as a computer hashing out precise bits of pixels from artworks, copying it's traits and compositing it with the works of others in a mathematical model. An artwork's entire creative information is dismantled via software into something easily reproducible by anyone else, and that creative information has a weight of years of hardwork to back it up. Morally nobody should be able to exploit that hard work. People in a skilled field such as art and animation naturally wants to make original innovative works and not steal from others, and mostly do so during their beginner learning phase or if paid to do so. "Stealing" is also very hard for a human, so in a way if someone manages to copy one's style the person can still earn respect (whether that can be used commercially is a different matter). Forgery is also always called out when noticed and stifled. Both due to the natural ego of humans and a field that cherishes skill ensures the "stealing" part of art wasn't a big deal and was mostly self regulated in addition to the copyright laws.
Now the problem is non-artists have an innovative way to truly steal, and such people don't subscribe to such an informal code of respect. It's no longer a self regulated industry, and it's understandable artists are requesting protections from the problems of AI from such exploiters.
Them being loud about requesting for active protections from AI doesn't take away the voice of other industries such as voice acting, writing, copywriting,coding, journalism etc, so not sure why this specific derision for artists in general from your side. The online art community is one of the most open community that helps anyone out when it comes to getting better at art with so much free content, and the last thing you associate with elitism lmao.
Every day we get closer and closer to the Cowboy Bebop/Carole and Tuesday Universe. At least Carole and Tuesday gives me hope that people will always look for the human soul in art of all forms. Just got to the end of the video where you recommend it, great minds or whatever.
Kind of out of topic, but would an actual sentient ai making art have a different implications than a standard “ai art” generator?
All we gotta do is just move past capitalism, and we can get the best of every possible world here, capitalism rewards ownership and taking credit, we need to reward labor and work, not just the people who own the IP their artists create
@marcusaaronliaogo9158 the problem with that angle is that the debate about whether or not it's possible in the ai to truly be sentient has to be finished first but that is a huge can of worms in itself
@@brandonvu5429 There's absolutely no reason to question whether its possible for an AI to be truly sentient or not. All that's required for sentience is self-awareness; thought rather than pure action/reaction.
Its just a matter of finding the logical steps to achieve that in an AI. Until we discover explicit knowledge that it isn't possible algorithmically, there's no reason to question whether sentience is achievable just because it isn't "human".
@@smileyp4535while yes capitalism is cringe , I don't see why moving past it should be the end of technological progress making life easier. Ideally artists would probably be highly depend educated on the AI to produce the best possible results and everyone else could use it freely without being told to stop having fun.
--The most reasonable future of Ai animation that I see is where Ai tools are used to assist with in-between animation. This would mean it is trained only on the art the animators produce, and that the training data set is not only unavailable to the public, but also unavailable to the animation studios. While this could allow smaller teams of skilled animators to produce works which would otherwise be too time-consuming, this change would not come consequence-free, as you've mentioned in your video.
--The training data set should not be available to animation studios firstly because the owners of an intellectual property should be the creators of that property, not a publisher or any other entity. This is not just a problem in the animation industry. But secondly, animation studios have shown 0 reason for us to believe that they would not abuse the data to cut artists out of the process of producing animation.
--The bigger issue really is the animation job market as a whole right now. At the time of writing this, animation work means being underpaid, having terrible benefits and working absurd hours. It should be illegal for employers to abuse any field of expertise this way, because it is amoral. When laws are not moral, it is our duty to try to change them.
Even as someone broadly in the "pro-AI" camp, I want to thank you for pointing out what you did at 18:00. This is something I don't see talked about enough, in either the pro- or anti- AI sphere. No matter what happens, we cannot let AI dilute culture and art to the point that originality is edged out because its not economical.
I am excited for how this tech might enable independent content that otherwise wouldn't or couldn't get made, but I am deeply concerned about how it will be handled by the major players and the impact it will have on the animation industry, both eastern and western. It's important this tech continues to be community developed, so that it stays in the hands of everyone instead of solely the hands of bigger corporations.
@@Sensets Because the government’s hand in technological progress is *always* a future you wish for, and that *no* lobbyists in the world ever would want to manipulate regulations based on their own interests.
@@Sensets Any legal restriction is just going to affect individuals and small companies, not big business. Those who can afford the lobbyists will absolutely lobby for something that favors themselves; the tech has way too much potential to big business more money.
Expand copyright to cover training a model with copyrighted material? Then Disney is going to train an AI on their massive content library and still screw their animators, except now they are also the only ones with that AI. Repeat for every company with a large animation library. Congratulations, now no one can compete with their operating costs. It will make animation more of an intrinsic monopoly, not less.
The genie is out of the bottle, for better or worse. We must develop it in a way to maximize the benefit for all involved, not just those who are already succeeding.
The thing that bugs me the most is how people act as if ai art is better than or could easily replace human made art, but Ai art, by design, cannot exist without human artists. If you ask an ai to draw, and it's never seen a drawing, it can't do it. But if you ask a human to draw, and they've never seen a drawing, they will scribble and experiment and try. Without human artists, there would be no ai art. When people act as if ai art can replace humans, they are ignoring how ai art can even exist in the first place
Yeah and only these ridiculous AI alarmist are thinking AI will replace artists. The corridor crew vid was just meant to be simple and funny proof of concept. They didn't make it to show AI will replace human artists.
@@xKuukkelix your view is short-sighted and ignorant. look at all the people whose jobs have already been replaced in different sectors with AI. the "ai can't replace me" crowd is getting humbled fast.
I remember a video saying an ai had found the BEST way to win pong after playing 500 games. It was the same thing I guessed when I was 10 after playing like, 5. AI are only good at copying, they can't create
"When people act as if ai art can replace humans, they are ignoring how ai art can even exist in the first place" While you're totally right, that's pretty much irrelevant, because we already have so much art we can use to train models that we already have all the data ai's need to replace humans, and sooner or later there will probably be a new technique invented allowing ai's to generate their own unique art style, fact is ai art generation is still in it's infancy and we don't know what the limits are. But one thing is for certain, there will always be demand for real artists, even if it will be severely diminished.
Ai art programs like stable diffusion don't need artists at all to work. That's a fundamental misunderstanding of how the system works. The ai doesn't really steal artists techniques in the way you're thinking it does. You can use nothing but free use shutterstock images and with training it will emulate almost any artists style. It just takes more time. People in ai generation have already tested this and can reach the same results to have it perfectly ape an artists style from nothing in less then a year.
To expand on the point of artist own style creeping in when doing recreations, this is part of how forgeries are discovered in the art world. There are definitely a litany of other methods and factors, but the subtle differences between an original and a recreation are indeed a factor to a trained eye.
This ai animation really just feels like the rich man's cheap fake rotoscoping
@@KnucklesxReala911
It's better quality than actual animations in most anime series, tbh.
But jeez... I'm from the gaming industry and this is childs play when artist cry for nothing.
Then again... Humans were designed.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 Lol no it isn't and no humans weren't
@@syeina
You've never seen every anime season for past three years have you? Not all of them are high quality in comparison to what Corridor Crew did.
And yes... You mortals were designed... Unless you think death is an illusion then prove me wrong. Return from the dead... Then again, it's not like you would know since you are not the one who walks that Fate, mortal. Return to dust in which was crafted upon you from atom and energy.
Human... Your species isn't unique nor special. I can wait for another eternity and a new species shall take your kin's position. Over and over again, as if you all shall end for nothing.
(In the end... Earth ended from my true time eons ago. Will this cosmic iteration follow this same Fate? I wonder. And you?... ... ... You're no changer of history nor breaker of Fate. Until you are one, then I will consider merit in your words. Otherwise, this era is but a pebble in the stream of time for me.)
Do as you will but what I do is the End of this entire dimension. Mortal, you can join the other life forms in extinction. May the cosmos be ever so merciful upon all.
@@syeina i mean a lot of newer anime is pretty shit. Animators and companies have become lazy ever since the popularity of anime exploded. Before it was super popular anime animations had an average higher quality. The quality average in anime has definitely dropped. i still find myself watching older anime because shit is just straight up better in art quality animation everything. Not to mention the annoying 2.5D type of anime that's been coming out constantly. That shit looks ugly as hell.
You sound like a fanboy who can't notice the flaws currently going on with anime. If you can't notice the lack in quality lately with modern anime, then sorry to say you're just a mindless consumer. "Just consume product and get excited for next product" Thats literally you.
No one is thanked for producing AI art. Instead, entities make money from it.
By extension, if the technology that produces it were eventually to become sentient, it would automatically become a literal slave to those entities.
18:00 - 18:25 As someone who developed machine learning models for their Graduate thesis after studying ML and data science for the better part of 3 and a half years, I came to a similar conclusion as the one stated in the listed time window. That said, there is still cause for fear, as unreasonably far off as the prospect of that fear is.
The problem is not that machines cannot think organically and generate the same outputs humans can. Fundamentally, if we consider humans to just be extremely complex machines, it is very possible for a future computer to have the memory capacity, processing capability, and complete data set to effectively mirror a human at the state at which that data was collected from them. In other words, if you could digitize literally a person's entire life experience and create a computer that exactly mirrored their brain chemistry (which is theoretically possible since our neurons are just a mass of electrical signals being fired), then yes, you could create a machine capable of thinking the exact same things. Of course, such a thing does not currently exist nor is it conceivably going to be created any time soon. Judgment Day will probably come first (or maybe this singularity will trigger it).
Because this event is so far off, it would be extremely dishonest to ever fathom that human works of art (which by definition are the product of the artist's unique brain chemistry and life experience i.e their current state) could be rivaled by AI-generated artwork.
I hope this illustrates how our laws are fundamentally amoral, because instead of just taking a scientist's word for this abuse of both technology and human lives being reprehensible, we have to settle this with copyright laws that are, wait for it, no doubt going to be partial toward the one true god of the world: capital.
Fuck everything humans have ever made.
Life in the 2020's is just one eldritch nightmare scenario after the next, huh.
I can understand believing this to be bad, but I think comparing it to an ‘eldritch nightmare scenario’ is a little much.
Things have always been weird, bad, and good all at once. We just don't learn from the past, and are doomed to repeat it.
Just wait until the Great Reset and the 30's...
Imagine a youtuber making some funny anime content being what makes you think the 2020s are an eldritch nightmare. You'll be pretending you never said any of this in a few years, just like the last crop of Luddites that called Photoshop the death of art.
@@user-be5kj1bw3d Reading comprehension is dead.
Th worst thing is that it isn´t even goin to be just anime, almost every other form of art is going to be hit by it, Im in my senior year of architecture and its terrifying. (sorry for baf English)
god, AI architecture? I can see skyscrapers collapsing already
Your English is good, just a few typos.
@@blepblops you're dumb, the strongest and most efficient structures can only be designed by AI. a guy designed a brace using AI that was STRONGER than a solid part and used a fifth of the raw materials.
People in my country are already trying to get cheap architecture design by exectly copying other architecture design from Pinterest. It will get worse in the future with AI. As an artist and architect, it is not a good look.
Not just art, AI and continuing advancements in automation will likely replace most jobs.
As an artist.... thank you for this video.
Great video, agree 100% Ai isn't art and spits in the face of all creatives that work hard to better their skills. The suits need to wake up and focus on quality instead of quantity. I would rather watch a traditional hand drawn piece of animation then an animation made by AI.
They'll wake up and focus on money. The same thing they aren't just trained to do or are encouraged to do - it's the thing they *must* do to get ahead of the next guy in their industry doing the same thing.
People talk about 'late stage capitalism' for a reason.
Near the end of last year, I went to the American Visionary Art Museum in Baltimore. If you're ever in Baltimore, you NEED to go there. It celebrates works done by the self-taught, and it seriously changed the way I view art. Every featured artist had a bio, and things like troubled backgrounds and mental illness were a common theme. Materials were often rudimentary. Paper plates as canvases. One woman painted doors. A man who embroidered in prison using threads he unravelled from socks. Beautiful works of art made from literal garbage, like discarded buttons and broken glass. The things I saw there are why I roll my eyes at anyone who claims AI is making art "accessible". Art is only inaccessible if you have a very narrow view of what art is.
"Outsider" art is really the purest form of human expression. It's absolutely fucking unfettered and free. Thanks for bringing this place to my attention; it sounds amazing!
@@Noordledoordle Couldn't agree more, and you're very welcome :)
“Art is only inaccessible to if you have a very narrow view of what art is”
I’m not even throwing my two cents in on the AI art issue, but tbh that sentence seemed quite hypocritical considering the fact that ur the one trying to police what can be considered art and what can’t be
As an American I recommend people to stay the fuck away from Baltimore.
@@pebble312 I never said anything like that. This is what my comment was saying: The accessibility argument about AI art doesn't work because anyone can make art, even if they don't know anything about it or don't have good materials. Seriously, all I did was debunk one argument.
I remember being a little curious about Carole & Tuesday when it came out, but then binging the entirety of it in 2020. Boy, did I become a full Watanabe fanboy after that. The fact that he fully encapsulated the spirit of music was purely delightful.
Some people are a little too hyped on A.I. and a little behind on it . A.I. will never be good enough for certain tasks.
I can't focus on anything else than your background! Such a simple but amazing collection, i'm jealous! 😮
When I watched Carol & Tuesday, I was like: "When is this ever going to be a problem?" Now I'm like, aw fuck it is a problem.
Also the D&D CZcamsr Zee Bashew said probably the most optimistic outcome of AI art is one where human-made art still continues to exist alongside AI art, and a new cottage industry where people get paid to make copyright-free art to train AI on.
That is so optimistic I have to say, that's a naive dream.
Example: The fashion industry with fast fashion. Underpaid workers everywhere, with countless trash produced and "donated with contempt" to 3rd world countries. And I say with contempt because those clothes are so stained, they end up in landfills, thrown in oceans and disintegrate into microplastics.
On the other side, Haute Couture of each brand only pays about a few dozen people, decent wages for their runways. Everything else is made by low wage workers. From Dior, Chanel, McQueen. They also regularly exploit interns so there are many months without pay.
IMagine how dehumanizing it must be to be pursuing arts as a means of self expression and then being forced to draw art for feeding an AI. That is some nightmare fuel.
@@shouryuuken4147 I think its a bit naive to assume that animators express themselves. The animator working on 3 hours of sleep with 100 mg of caffeine in his system on his 8th hour of overtime isn't thinking "wow, I love expressing myself", they are thinking "wow, this sucks". Unfortunately, most jobs are like that.
@@edisonkimmel7843 While I agree with your point, I wanted to clarify that my post was just referring to what Chairman Meow was saying, i.e.:
" the most optimistic outcome of AI art is one where human-made art still continues to exist alongside AI art, and a new cottage industry where people get paid to make copyright-free art to train AI on."
To be clearer, I don't like the idea of people working for an AI, so that the AI can do creative work, that should be done by humans. We'd be losing a lot in the process of streamlining art with the help of AI.
@@EmeraldMara85 The two are incomparable, and your example kind of sucks. Workers being underpaid has nothing to do with technology, and everything to do with international policy discussions. Things like tariffs on countries with poorly written or poorly protected labor laws would do more to help that than being a ludite would.
If Clip Studio Paint can filter a photograph into a cel shade in a single click (Filter > Artistic > Amount of Color 45 to 10), then given if we screenshot all the frames in a video which only takes time and storage space, it's basically just filtering a video. It's not exactly animation than just greenscreening a recording.
True, and honestly, it'll need guidance to be coherent. Could just help animators. But I think getting click bait titles feeding on legit fears > actually looking at this in a non-bias and inflammatory way to drum up clicks for money.
Yeah, the video he showed is really as he pointed out more of an advanced visual filter/ VFX than animation.
CLIP STUDIO PAINT CAN DO THAT?
I need to learn a lot of that program
a filter doesn't change the style of the image, as he said ai art eventually will become a uniform thing, applying filters to pictures is already this
It's kinda like modern rotoscoping which has been used since the beginning of animation. This has also been used in some movies like Scanner Darkly, in 2006. So instead of frame by frame photoshopping, this AI is doing just that plus more, much faster.
I'm not trying to argue, just adding some more food for thought and nuggets of info for some who might not be familiar.
Even as an amateur artist, I really don't feel threatened by A.I "art". More inconvenienced and/or annoyed. Once I do start publishing, I'll have to keep an eye out for any AI "art" that samples from mine.
Miyazaki-San is still right.
Okay, so I'm fresh off of watch Aaron Blaise's reaction to the same video. I realized something. They didn't just take an AI and spit it out, Corridor did take the time to actually act, process, and produce this. The big difference is that they just tossed what is essentially an AI filter overtop. It certainly isn't the best and I can definitely agree that the title was a bit much. I am fine with AI being used for memes, and to help generate ideas, or visualize ideas to make it easier for those people who sometimes struggle to see what they want to create. That much I am fine with. I am fine with the use of AI to help in the creation of media, to make clear, TO ASSIST in the creation of media. I am even fine with people like Corridor slapping on an AI filter and spending the time to train, compose, direct, and create it to even remotely look good. This much is fine, in fact, I encourage people to use it to Help, in the creative process. It's like simulations, we needn't spend the time creating complicated meshes just to make some water in 3D software, there are sims for it. I consider it just like that. To assist, not replace.
I do, however, believe it should not be used to create, buy, nor sell. AI should be a tool, not a creation kit, we should not use AI to make everything, a proper amount of human effort should be needed to produce media, an AI should not simply create it plainly. This undermines the hard work people genuinely have passion for.
It is fine for jokes or as an assistant tool, but not to be as its own artist, storyboarder, animator, and narrator. That much is simply too far.
Dude, they don't care. All they care about is following the trend. They see another technology - they seethe with anger.
art community, on twitter, has turned into raging anti-technology cult. First with NFTS (that weren't that good to begin with, to their credit), and now with AI (which isn't perfect either, but in it's imperfect form it has infinite usecases).
@@lostgarbage4055 „Dude, they don't care. All they care about is following the trend”
Says the prick who blindly jumps and defends the generative AI trend.
„They see another technology - they seethe with anger”
No. We are angry, and hate this classist attempt to replace human joy and creativity.
„art community, on twitter, has turned into raging anti-technology cult”
Says the supporter of longtermism and the AI cult.
you dont understand technology in the future AI make anime automated no need human again i challenge you in 2040 I'm sure my words are true
I miss rotoscoping. It was a cool way to animate over live performances to ensure a fidelity to body composition but also speed up the animating process. It was used as far back as the Fliescher Brothers' Superman cartoons, effectively in Waking Life, and in interesting ways in some Bakshi films over the years. At this point in May 2023, a studio investing time and energy into the actual rotoscoping could have made a better anime product than the filter over acting that Corridor did. That will not always be the case.
@@johnm.withersiv4352 Well obviously, as it stands the technology isn't quite there for such a thing, and honestly people will often appreciate the effort more, as human hands are more deliberate than an algorithm. It's cool, yes don't get me wrong, but I will still appreciate the human hands more so than the digital hands
"companies with their own in house animation ai" if that ever happens. I hope the plot of "Bendy and the Ink Machine" becomes real
While I do think AI can help with making artists' jobs easier, that's exactly where it SHOULD end. AI should be a tool to make your job easier NOT to replace an entire person, it should be a TOOL, not an extra pair of figurative hands. AI should help with things either a human cannot or shouldn't ideally do (due to danger or overworking risks). Trying to replace artists will only make things worse for EVERYONE. Art should be the one thing that should be untouchable to machines, its one of the few things that makes us humans afterall. And, at least in my eyes, if we can't do art anymore then what even are we?
So if someone else can make wonderful art, what's the point of you learning to make art. What even are you?
I hope now you understand, even a little bit, how stupid that statement is.
@@zenamo1848 too bad you'll be dead and gone before that happens
@@zenamo1848 armageddon can't come soon enough
Well, the corridor video clearly only uses A.I. as a tool, as the story, direction, acting, and all the editing fluff is done by a human. And the video was trying to showcase an algorithm, not pretending they drew it.
@@zenamo1848 No matter how much google-searched thesaurus level grammar you throw at me doesn't change the fact that you are objectively wrong with this bizarre take you're having.
Not only is technological advancement isn't art, as technology is based off of objectivity and reason while art is subjective and based on emotions. But I never even implied half of the other things you randomly decided to put in my mouth. Do you know what arrogance means? I'm clearly not trying to say that humans are superior because we do art, what i am saying is that is that art is literally the proof of our sentience. Yes, animals can comprehend art in the same way that they can recognize flora and fauna. Animals can be very intelligent, in general. But they cannot create art, this is because they cannot comprehend abstract concepts, such as wanting others to have a specific feeling and understand a specific abstract message/symbolism through art. This is something that requires sentience. This is also why machines (at least, at the current technology) also cannot and should not make art.
I have no idea why you felt so personally offended by something that is scientifically true. What do you think was one of the main things archeologists discovered to prove the start of human sentience? Did you forget that it was the art of animals painted in caves that is one of the oldest proof of humanity?
Something that needs to be said about artists vs A.I. is that artists may be trying to replicate a style just like an A.I. but for the most part, artists do not have the know-how to achieve what the style requires until they've built up the experience.
Ironically, I once spent 2 years of my life trying to learn Yoshiaki Kawajiri's art style. However, despite me figuring out how to make my art feel very much closely influenced by the look, what I needed to learn is probably completely different from Yoshiaki Kawajiri's actual techniques.
So, to sum it up: artists don't have the luxury of algorithms. You just have references. Your best bet is to guess the techniques being used and hope you fail upwards.
So even thought the intent and end result is the same because the A.I are inherently faster and better than humans its unethical?
@@jsuperhalo1 stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. Ai doesn’t have intent or feeling and the results were completely different because humans can’t copy. Is your reading comprehension a negative 5?
@jsuperhalo1 The problem of A.I. is its ultimate fate of being derivative. Humans have error, innovation, and interpretation that can allow their works to be transformative.
A.I. is like a queen on a chessboard. It can move anywhere, but only within the rules of a chessboard. It can't move like us.
The A.I. is not going to decide one day to create something it hasn't
learned from its datasets. It isn't going to know whether the style it mimics is gaudy or classy.
And it's only as good as the artist it copies from. That's basically like knowing every word in a single book, but those words are all you can ever speak.
@@jsuperhalo1 I don’t think AI art is unethical per se. But from a legal perspective, it’s training and sourcing from copyrighted material is troublesome.
Leaving open source projects like Stable Diffusion aside, AI is absolutely a for-profit product that needs to extract its content from somewhere. As long as that content is copyrighted, and it’s rightful owners haven’t properly consented or been compensated for it, the entire model seems exploitative to me.
The reason artists don’t have to pay to use references, is because it’s impossible to be sure whether someone is looking at a picture to appreciate it, to profit, or anything else. We cannot enforce that. But AIs don’t need the benefit of the doubt because we KNOW the purpose of AI services is to make money, so for-profit AIs that use copyrighted content are completely unethical in my opinion, and there should definitely be legal restrictions in those cases.
It’s why I don’t really mind Stable Diffusion as a (supposedly) truly open source project. The moment the team behind Stable Diffusion starts trying to make actual money (which they probably will because training an AI is ridiculously expensive), that’s where we’ll be back to downright unethical, and potentially exploitative.
I don’t mind AIs making art “more accessible”. Ultimately all they do is raise the bar for what constitutes actually incredible art, and perhaps put more emphasis into the importance of ideas than pure execution. But I do have issues with companies creating for-profit products by extracting other people’s copyright as raw materials with no compensation, royalties or credits for it, and no opt-out options of future training.
It has ultimately little to do with AI (which is just a tool and commercial product) and a lot to do with corporate practices, copyright and intellectual property IMO.
@@jsuperhalo1 it’s not better but because it’s “eh close enough” the end product will not have the same quality. As pointed out, the thumb nail for the AI anime has 6 fingers. Probably a real person wouldn’t make that mistake. And if you have any time playing around with AI, you know that IT CANT HANDS. It’s also straight plagiarism. They copy actual art to train the AI. Never did they ask the artist but ripped right off the internet. That artist had to spend a life time developing the skills to draw it and they took it without a second thought. Think about it, if no one is there to draw OP art anymore, what is left for the machine to use to learn? 2 things will happen, one is that the art will be frozen in time so no evolution can happen in art or two that the ai will start learning on other ai art and it will become the same style over time. Boiling down differences until you get the same Disney style for everything. Anime goes through major changes every ten years or so, imaging if anime style that is used now is that way forever. That would be hella boring. No mob psycho would be made, no beastards, nothing to push boundaries. That’s the long term fear I have. I hope it becomes a tool like photoshop that can make life easier and not replace the hand in control
My expertise is in automotive engineering so I was hating AI before it was cool.
I’d say you actually changed my perspective. At first I thought about AI art being “inspired” by other styles like a human artist, but you’re right that unless the AI is basically conscious with its own lived experience, which is not what something like DALL•E is, it’s really just remixing images. I think the technology could be a useful tool for artists who use it with care and effort and most importantly train it on data sets where they have the rights to use the art(although I suppose if the training set is large and diverse enough that the final image doesn’t look exactly like any one artist’s style it may be protected under fair use even if one doesn’t own the copyright for all the art, kind of like your collage analogy, which isn’t what Corridor Crew was doing), but otherwise it probably will just be used to replace artists with tech that can’t capture the care and unique perspective they give to their art. Animators and VFX artists already get paid stupidly less than they deserve by companies that don’t fully appreciate them or the quality artwork they produce, so I think we’re a ways off from AI tools being useful to artists exploring new techniques instead of being mostly harmful and disrespectful to artists in general. I also think we’re a ways off from AI that are conscious enough to make genuine art all by themselves, but how that would affect society is a much bigger question that isn’t really relevant for the type of AI that’s making waves right now.
As a working musician, Carol and Tuesday hit me in a really special place. Watanabe is my favorite director, but that show specifically really hit me. And now, in this AI centered conversation, it really does take on even more depth. Good shout 👏🏽
I totally forgot it was about people making people music in an aí generated industry
Would you recommend watching it subbed or dubbed?
@Archlector Yarvi both are good, I think I preferred the dub a bit because the music is all in English, so there's not a back and fourth language. I'm usually a sub guy, but this is a killer dub.
Artists are already undervalued by big companies. How much more with technology like this which focuses more on ‘shortcuts’. It’s scary as a young artist to go into an industry where something like AI art can replace the very thing you are just learning to do.
@@chrisdawson1776 No I did not
@@chrisdawson1776 The people that told coal miners that are the same people shilling for NFTs and AI
@@Mrhellslayerz Even broader than that. It's the "got mine, fuck you" crowd who think they'll be the winners and survivors. When really they're just shortsightedly cheering for their own expendability.
Fun fact, Deviant Art already has a "no AI" clause in their creative commons license.
It is interesting to see traditionally liberal artists and art sites (not that DA generally takes a side) suddenly giving a piss about property rights- but it's always been the dirty little secret of socialists in general that THEIR property is never to be divided up for the people, just someone else's. You shouldn't make money off that fruit you grew in a real-life garden, but I have a right to every penny my art makes!
@@faves633 What you said makes no sense.
1. Liberals and socialists are not the same thing. Talk to a socialist, any socialist, and you will se that they hate liberals almost as much as their hate conservatives.
2. Dude. There is no hypocrisy here. People need to live, you classist prick.
DevianArt? FUCKING DEVIANTART? THE SAME PEOPLE WHO DEDICATE AN ENTIRE TAG TO AI ART?!
@@dragondelsur5156 Yeah, so? You gonna go nutty on me about that? I mean, you do realize you're on youtube right? Wanna train on stable diffusion? You're in the right place. I'm only pointing out that protections are starting to exist.
@@faves633 Well, you also need to remember DA also has their own AI tool called DreamUp, that's why I called that out. I think ArtStation did better by making a noAI tag for people who don't want their work to be fed for AI.
My professor gave my class an assignment to write an essay to argue the existence of a particular problem and how to potentially solve it and I’ve decided to write mine on exactly this topic. I hope you don’t mind that I’ve been using many of the sources and examples you discuss in this video for my essay. Thank you for the help lol.
As a friendly professor, be sure to cite this video on yourWorks Cited page. If you need another interesting video source on the argument, then you might try Living the Line's videos on AI in comics. Also citable. I appreciate that CZcams is one of the easier social medias to cite in most citation styles. It is fairly simple in MLA or APA. It's much easier than trying to provide credit where due on FaceBook or other platforms. Hope your argumentative essay turns out well.
you probably already finished your assignment by now but bonsai pop here on youtube also has a good video about this topic
Yeah, I finished it a while ago, much longer ago now, and thanks for the suggestions. I did end up including this video on my works page, though not as a work cited and instead as a work consulted, since the video didn’t end up being specifically referenced in the essay.
The funny thing is that churning out quantity over quality for a quick buck is what lead to the video game industry crash in the 80's. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happens to the animation industry if companies turn to short-term solutions like AI generators for their content instead of actual artists.
This isn't really comparable
People fear Machines???
The Eternal Legions were my Second Will...
Mankind... You all were designed...
ai "art" should just be an open source thing that create no money and is just there for fun. But there will allways be greedy pig that search profit
@@justbuyarxfatalis3588 Allright but you do realize that someone actually has to progtamm those AI and mantain servers right? Why would they do it for free? Unless someone is paying them to give it for free to public of course
@Cassowary Egg
Nope... As long as humanity serves Evil. I'll always be around to take amusement of Mankind.
Well... I can wait for eternities...
(May Fate be merciful because your kin will need it beyond the reach of stars...)
In 2019, I was living in military housing in Germany. On Halloween that year, I was left at home alone and browsing Netflix for something to watch before it got dark enough for kids to start knocking on my door for candy. I put on Carole & Tuesday; I like music, I like slice-of-life, I like Cowboy Bebop. I binged *most* of the series that night and finished the rest the next day. It's amazing. The message of young women pursuing and accomplishing their dreams despite opposition from other people, including loved ones, is even more relevant to me now than it was four years ago. But I won't give up on achieving my goals 🙂
Here here!
Amen!
It frustrates me so darn much to see the extent to which these companies and or folks go to cut corners and not pay animators their due. Whats worse is ultimately, if they eliminate jobs of artists like animation, storyboarding, background, painting, character design etc, thats literally ending the livelihood of so many people who genuinely enjoy what they do. I've honestly never met an unhappy animator. As a music composer, this threat is far too close to home too. With the surgent of so much AI technology threatening to take the jobs of up-coming composers who clearly can't compete with the market demands of the industry engine (such as myself) ... I can't help but sometimes feel hopeless.
I'm a big fan of animation work. And I for one, will never sit idly by and let the giants in corporate US/the world just eliminate jobs for good people. Just doesn't sit well with me at all!
AI art lack the human touch of an artist, and thus will look incredibly creepy and uncanny. Studios replacing their human artists with AI would definitely not only lose a lot of respect but arguably lose far more money when the result is lifeless garbage that isn’t convincing.
It looks so shitty. I cannot imagine a studio pouring money into an AI animated movie. It would be the worst.
I feel like something similar to what we're seeing in video games today will happen. Where big studios, while still making tons of money, become so soulless that they start to lose the interest of the dedicated people who love the medium, opening up room for more indie studios (in this case, using traditional animation) to make their mark.
There is kinda already a huge indie space in japan... Doujin
Hey, sorry to let you know
But corporations are already that soulless, definitely more soulless than you think.
The reason they don't use the A.I is because it isn't advanced enough, give it 10 years maximum and you'll it.
One of the worst game of the yesteryear, Balan Wonderworld, is partially designed and made using AI
wrong comparison....
you're equating scale of operation to medium used for implementation
Studio Ghibli films are pretty much AAA tier of Anime. Would you say the cel animation used is soulless?
Likewise, there could be an anime made by a small team (indie counterpart) using Stable Diffusion. Would it necessarily have more soul?
This IS pretty much the next stage of evolution.
Game Engines made making video games MUCH easier and ushered in a new era.
The pace of AI advancement is frankly unbelievable if you've observed this arena past couple of months.
During the transition period, there'd still be a niche for high quality completely human generated artworks / anime but only until it gets outpaced eventually.
It is not a question of if, but when.
By definition, the progress is tied to model size and hardware advancement. Those two things are progressing rapidly.
Since creation of this art is tied to these parameters, it'd follow the same curve, perhaps even a steeper one due to emergence of novel interactions and manipulations incorporated over time by users
@@anmolagrawal5358 Ok, saying that 100% human artwork will just disappear at one point is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
The photograph was invented 196 years ago but painters are still around. E-books have existed for 52 years and paperback is more popular than ever. Anytime a completely hand drawn anime/animated movie/animated show drops it always gets success off on that fact alone, because people crave that still.
The human element isn’t going to disappear, even in the most successful scenario for AI, where 100% human drawn animation shrinks MASSIVELY, it still won’t completely disappear. That’s just not how “progress” works.
It's always an odd feeling when a channel you follow does a video about a channel you follow
And dunks on it too? It is conflicting
Same
Plus Corridor, Logan Paul and other channels that support this also shill for NFTs. Down with them!
I'm a fan of Corridor and have been for a long time but didn't disagree with this video. However, attacking Corridor for apparent "Skill issues", their audience for having "Zero taste", and overall just coming across as an indignant asshole made me dislike this video more than I really should have.
@@fernandozavaletabustos205wait, when did shad shill for NFT?
Wow. Guess I'm done with Corridor Digital.
That uncanny soulless AI generated video is hurting my eyes :P
One of the things that gets me is that even if the data is collected ethically and animators jobs were protected in some way, there is still the constant erasure of the human effort that goes into creation. This applies to most creative fields, but in this case I'm thinking specifically of the creation of an AI and tweaking it's learning. Someone has to develop the initial model the AI will use to learn and then tweak it to produce desired outcomes. Someone has to clean up the data and put it into a format that the AI can process. And another someone has to monitor the AI's output to try and make sure it continues to produce desired results. But rather than acknowledge this, its framed as 'look at this thing produced without humans' when it very much takes a village, or at least one dedicated as fuck parent, to even make a halfway decent AI. But corpos just want a magic thing to produce a magic money making product so they can have their magic infinite money machine (that's right, it was about capitalism the whole time!).
I do think that AI art should exist, but cannot do so ethically under our current economic system, and even outside of it there are a lot of ethical questions to answer. I also think that the agency of AI's, however limited it may be, is both fascinating and worth of it's own sort of respect. But so long as we keep trying to erase humans from the process of creation, and additionally ignore the actual strengths and weaknesses of AI generation in pursuit of the absolute cheapest production costs, it's just fucked.
I mean for Stable Diffusion at least, there have been no less than a dozen innovations since Sept 2022, that allow you as a user, to control the processing, makeup, and output of art in question. No matter how the base models are trained, you can retrain other models and manipulate weights to put the human touch back in. There are evolving jobs on prompt engineering, model training/creation, etc.. that are emerging. It will be another platform and another tool to use. I don't see it ever fully replacing artists. It is kind of ironic that blue-collar jobs have been replaced by automation and were projected to be completely decimated, just a few years ago, and you never heard much about it. Now these tools generate pictures and the world is ending. If you read on the history of Microsoft Excel, you will find a lot of parallels. People thought it would end the entire tax/accounting industry, now you can't do that without it.
Sounds like creators would be replaced with operators, with perhaps one technical director who is formally trained and knows what looks good.
I think the best place for AI art is in what first made me fascinated with it. Seeing what something other than us learns to interpret and do and what it produces from that. the plagiarization and labor issues ruin what could be an interesting look into ourselves and an interesting step towards not being alone in the universe. But of course, like many things, capitalism will ruin it.
@@willthornsbury2913 You're right, excel didn't replace all accounting jobs and AI likely won't replace all creative jobs either. But excel and AI are fundamentally different tools capable of very very different things, to equate them doesn't work on many levels. For example: accountants are super high paid jobs considered central under capitalism because they keep track of the money. Animators are already treated like shit, just like the blue collar workers you mention. Those treated the most like shit will only receive shittier conditions as automation like this increases whether or not the jobs disappear entirely (trust me, I've worked in factories, shipping, retail, and janitorial work) . Additionally, no one (at least in this conversation or in Geoff's video) is saying this is the end of the world, just not a good thing under the current conditions. See the back half of my comment and the end of Geoff's video.
Finally, I currently work as a software developer and shit's only getting worse there. This is not because AI exists, but because they are treated like fucking magic money making machines. The moment they're in the public eye, the vast majority of marketing and execs ignore all the human labor and effort that went into them. Again, those jobs may stick around, but that's not the kind of erasure I'm talking about. I'm talking about how we lose track of the fact that a human made the thing, even if it went on to evolve without them. I think back to Mob Psycho II and the convenience store scene. There are people stealing cans of soda and food, and they have no idea how they're created and couldn't do it themselves, but they act like they're entitled to it while shitting on those that make it or forgetting them entirely. The current way AI is made is in a black box, obscuring the art labor that went into the dataset. The way the creation of AI is discussed is also like a black box, like a human never made this, it just made itself and will now produce whatever you want.
The fact he liked this post but didn’t touch on its actual strengths at all is hilarious. His main argument wasn’t even the ethical questions around it, but instead just separating the words ‘art’ from ‘technician’. If he spent less time being bitter a point could’ve actually been made
Future animation studios: Hi, you need 5 years experience to have the skill to be an AI Supervisor.
Animator: But you gave all the intro-level jobs to that AI.
Animation studio: I don't see how that's my problem.
This is a very clueless take
@@skyfox585 And you're a clueless person. If an AI Manga studio was created, coloring? Done by AI. Concept art? Done by AI? Character Designs? AI. There's even a AI Model that specifies in inking images to make it appear like someone made pixel perfect line art. Which to this day is still very difficult to master
The whole studio will consist of a Senior AI Artist and a handful of AI artist to constantly generate new images to match the style they're going for.
@@anaversary- That sounds sick af tbh.
@@kalechips5972 not for literally any aspiring animator tho. just means we're even more expendable than we were before.
@Ryen That was always going to be the case, though...
Can we A.I. automate taxes yet?
I hate stressing about it each year when I know the Gov and IRS already knows how much I make… I hate the fact that if I get it wrong it could mean I owe a ton more or if they get it wrong I still owe and I stress until my ulcer is throbbing and my pancreas gives out.
Really, why is automation being used to replace things that bring meaning and joy to our lives? But not to replace the soul crushing jobs that are bullshit and don't need to exist or need a serious improvement to their work environment? Oh, right. I remember for years, boomers used to think being an artist of any kind wasn't a "real job", whatever the hell that means. May it be video game industry work, music industry work, or animation industry work, none of it was seen as valuable by weird old farts taking art for granted. The strange part is that a lot of chuds or far right folks are venerating ancient art from long ago and hate most art you see these days from anyone. But it's like, what are you expecting people to do? Endlessly recreate the same realism or recreation of real life over and over again for all forms of media? Oh, wait, that's what AI would do but for art that isn't just realistic or focused on replicating real life. Without any of the technique you see in drawn art, digital or otherwise. Man, I ask this again: Why is automation being used to replace the things that shouldn't be automated? My answer to that is: Well, we have a culture that is obsessed with overworking itself and thinking doing anything "unproductive" is laziness. Anything that isn't a "traditional job", such as manual labor or service work, is seen as unproductive. We have forgotten how the process of art, and the passion for the hobby itself, IS a part of the human experience and is ultimately still "work" by the very definition of it.
As someone specifically going into the 2D Animation industry, who already saw the purge of animation from services like HBO and was told by a recruiter that things had slowed down significantly over the past year, this stuff just makes me even more scared for the medium as a whole. Without being reductive, I wanted to add that another great way to fight against this is to support independent animation works and creators, like Helluva Boss from director/animator Vivienne Medrano, and Interforce: Seoul from director/animator Yujin An. Support short films from 2D Animators coming out of university as well, actively seek out and support independent OVA's, and do what you can to support initiatives against the use of AI generated animation, in the very least until we have more clear legal standing for artists to protect themselves and their works. 2D Animation as a whole is threatened by this, so supporting where you can matters.
Why would I want to support mid?
I want high-quality stuff, I'm not going to reward mid content, because that will just encourage people to make more mid content.
Like others things, this ai generated stuff is just a tool that can be adapted to increase animation output by individuals. Its not animation armagedon
@@justinwebb2773 agreed
@@tadeomilutinovic9893 maybe because those are the voices that will create superb high quality stuff in the future. Maybe because some of that mid-stuff resonates with you beyond its level of polish. Maybe because the status quo tends to create uniformity and you'd like to experience different, fresher perspectives.
Also... have u seen Helluva Boss? That's friggin hi quality in every sense
@@JoseGarnelo mid. pass. murica can only rival japanese shit using ai. after when japan starts to use ai they go back to square 1.
I work in a grocery store as a cashier and let me tell you when people say 'self checkouts are going to take away my job,' trust me they are not. They are just going to make one cashiers watching over all the self checkouts work harder. Thats how I see this AI Animation being, just a lot of work for some poor animator to clean up.
Thing is self-checkout isn't really automating the work of a cashier. It's making the customer become the cashier. And the one watching it over is mostly just the security guard
But you no longer need cashiers now. Just a security guard to be sure people don't leave without paying. Comparing to how many people worked before, some will definitely be kicked out.
@Player 10 the people who get "kicked out," assuming you mean the former workers being fired to pay for more self checkouts, also need to work to make money to pay rent and eat. If there is no alternative to working for food and automation takes all of those jobs, how are those people supposed to survive in a such a society?
@@mikemead7200 Ideally the stagnation of the population would be directly proportional to the automation of jobs, but this is the sort of thing that needs to be talked about
@@Player-re9mo As it turns out, cashiers are still needed because elderly, disabled, technologically illiterate, and outright, how-do-they-tie-their-shoes stupid people still can't use self-check, and self-check is also terrible for large orders because the bagging area is very very limited in capacity. also a lot of people prefer someone trained at bagging to do the bagging. Self-check is basically, at least ideally, useful as an express lane that you only need one employee for that can process several customers at once. however, there are customers who have no business using self-check, who nevertheless use it. Necessitating that poor person manning self-check to dart between terminals solving problems. People are FUCKING STUPID. this is the thing that grocery executives high on the potential of self-check don't get. People are morons. just, stupider than you ever imagined. People walk into grocery stores leaving their brain somewhere else. I am genuinely wondering if people subconsciously think it's appropriate to turn off key critical thinking processes in their brain when they enter a store. It's that bad. And that's why there's a limit to how much tech can viably replace humans in a retail situation. Tech can't really help morons. Only patient humans have that capacity.
A huge issue with AI "art" is the lack of process, which unfortunately, its proponents see as a positive. But by cutting out the very personal and human experience of MAKING art, you lose the experience that trains your eye to notice things like fucked up hands, disjointed shadows, consistent patterns on clothing, and so on. Art making doesn't reside in your hands, it resides in your brain, and when you refuse to go through the steps of learning art making, you will never learn how to judge the end product to any standard of quality. The reason all current AI art looks janky and samey (other than current tech limitations that will inevitably be ironed out with time) is that it's all being made by people who don't know how to look at art critically and understand its growth from nothingness into a final product. That mystical 'talent' that the AI bros want to democratize wasn't just gifted to certain chosen ones- it was developed through years of study, whether formal or self-guided, and it's the only reason a real artist is able to look at their own work during the process of making it and see what should change and how. Hell, sometimes I completely change the vision for an art piece halfway through, but the time I've already put in isn't wasted, it informs what I go on to create next.
TL:DR art without process is purely derivative.
It's a different type of art solely relying on computational technology. Like you mentioned it will be ironed out and get better although that's all that it mostly needs to do. Almost any AI Art team..ex; DALL-E, Mid journey, Dream..etc all have real artists on the team helping create finer details and polishing the art generation. Effort is being physically applied in a more indirect way nonetheless it's still there. For example Mid-Journey has already applied thousands and thousands of hours into programming what it is. I do agree with you in the fact it takes away the real feeling of making art although that's what makes it uniquely different. It has to recreate countless references just to draw one image. I am in no way saying ai Art is better than someone physically and manually drawing although the processes in the background used just to make these ai's does take more effort physically (not much imaginative creativity though). Although I can still understand why people dislike it.
There is a process. There is intent. A.I. art is, by definition, derivative, but that doesn't devalue it, nor should it be reason to ban it outright or go on a vitriolic crusade against it. It's here to stay.
@@christopherealy8025 help me out here. Since it’s derivative, does this not mean it also has no intent? It has less value than an art from a human no
@@ON-ry8iw first of all, value is subjective, especially when it comes to art. Second of all, a.i. isn't simply copy and pasted pixels. What's created, while trained from other artwork, is unique, and creation and training of an a.i. art program can also be seen as an artform, which is also where the intent comes from. A.i. programs don't script themselves. Nor do they press the button to run the program, or set the weighted conditions which the program uses to help decide the final result.
@@christopherealy8025 ahhh! Got it. Thanks and sorry for the late reply
imagine ads but 100 million times worse and 50x more frequent cause its automated
I think Corridor wanted to use as much AI as possible in the project just to push what it could do. If they wanted to actually make it look good they would’ve hired artists. That wasn’t their goal however. They wanted to see how close they could get to a finished product.
Don’t get me wrong, I hate the thought of AI overtaking the animation industry, it was only a matter of time before someone treads the water of making a fully “animated” short with it. Though I still think there is a lot of hard work and original ideas in the work based on the script, cinematography, directing, compositing etc.
For the AI training part, there needs to be hundreds of images for the AI to create something noteworthy. Given that only 2-3 people (a very small part of Corridor) was working on this, I doubt they had the resources to hire artists to do that many drawings.
How dare they improve a technology and make a standard CZcams video about it instead of perfecting the technology to completely replace animators overnight and making a video that isn't algorithm friendly too announce it
Yeah, I feel like this video is a massive over-reaction. No one is saying that the corridor video is some masterpiece of animation that should be displayed alongside the best of studio Ghibli's works. What they are saying "man, look at this fun comedy animation video!"
@@trevordavis6830 I kinda just felt like he took the clickbait titles literally. Cuz I never thought their goal was to do anything besides showing off the tech.
There are a lot of ‘ideal’ ways people believe the Anime industry would use AI Art. I believe any studio with this tech would do what warehouses do, which is making AI Art the labor standard.
I can only hope that doesn’t happen, but knowing these studios… it’s not that hard to see them doing this.
‘Labor shortages’, they say… More like no one wanting to work 5 pounds an hour.
@@trevordavis6830 getting a whole lot of "Oldman screams at cloud" energy from this video. He just comes off as a hater of new tech. using some BS argument of "It's harming the cULtuRe!!!".
Carole & Tuesday is an absolute treasure. Frankly, introducing me to "hip hopera" alone would be reason enough to cherish it forever.
I literally got a Suzume advertizement (4:00 to 4:10) [at 4:10] of this video
*PLEASE* take the time to watch the trailer to feel the experience I went through
I feel it adds to the videos point
One day I might try animation, still a long way from having any amount of understanding of the fundamentals, when that day comes I hope there are still animators and artists employed because if not, that animation is probably going to be done on a bridge with some stones I found on the ground because I'd be living there.