Iranian Embassy Siege SAS Extended Pistol Magazines
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- čas přidán 25. 11. 2023
- While doing some research on Operation Nimrod, which ended the 1980 Iranian Embassy siege, I noticed some interesting extended pistol magazines used by the members of B Squadron 22 SAS who stormed the embassy.
This is an improved version of the video uploaded last week, I pulled it to make some important additions!
Be sure to check out our accompanying article for this video here -
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Intro music - Danger Snow · Dan Henig (Provided by CZcams Audio Library) - Zábava
Thanks for watching! This is technically a reupload but I have also included some new information and insights from SAS veterans! Be sure to check out the accompanying article for this video here -
armourersbench.com/2023/11/26/sas-browning-hi-power-extended-magazines
The extened magazine on a Hi Power makes a lot of sense considering the situation. If the MP5 is empty, drawing a pistol is much quicker then reloading the 5.
lol so is switching really quicker then irl I thought maybe just in games
@@npickle54 of course it is lol, its only 1 move to grab your pistol, reloading is 3 different moves
On a MP5? Yes. Not on an M4/AR
@@andersalbertsson215This is the correct answer.
Most modern rifles &/or SMGs have streamlined controls and drop-free magazines, plus the combination of a bolt-hold-open device and a bolt-release switch/button. While the standard MP5 has none of those. You literally have to lock the weapon open manually, then press the magazine release paddle/button, while physically pulling the mag out, once a new mag is inserted you can slap the charging handle down to drop the bolt (alternatively, the first and last step can both be substituted for just cocking the weapon after inserting a new mag, though this IS more likely to damage the gun's bolt over time, and may cause the new mag to be improperly seated reducing reliability, plus it's less iconic compared to the HK slap).
@@andersalbertsson215it is still quicker to swap to a sidearm and those drills are still trained. If your weapon jams you want it to be second nature to immediately switch to a sidearm before falling to the back of the stack to deal with the stoppage
Extended pistol mags have always been very viable. We are super blessed to have pistols today with excellent extended mags OEM and readily available. A Glock 34 plus some stendos is a mighty potent PDW.
It's crazy to think when it released the Browning HP with its 13 round OEM magazine was considered high capacity, I mean it makes sense when it was out most pistols had at most 8 or less rounds in a magazine and revolvers were much more common in both LEO and military use
Units used the extended mags in Northern Ireland as well. Usually on pistols kept in cars.
Yes I believe so!
A friend who was in NI said that they had an A5 Browning with shortish barrel stashed in the Land rover for the more anti social encounters.
That wrist-mounted magazine is fascinating.
Back in the day, when the BHP was the only reliable double stacked pistol, the most reliable extended magazines were only available from SARCO (still in business), usually 19 or 21 rounders (parked, nickel, or stainless). That's all I carried on a regional tactical team in the early 80's and were unbranded / no markings. The wrist spare magazine holder was made in the U.S. by Eagle Industries. Unknown if they still make them. They worked all right if you were going in light without a long gun otherwise they tended to get hung up on slings.
Makes complete sense, they do seem a little cumbersome, adding weight to the wrist.
I neglected to add that the Eagle Industies Wrist Holder was an improved version. Instead of the magazine being held vertically (like the original posted picture). Eagle made theirs to be worn horizontally (bullet down & foward) length wise on the right forearm. Its a still a very fast reload and I still have one or two around here. Thanks for posting from memory lane.@@TheArmourersBench
That's really neat, do you mean your not sure if the wrist pouch still exists or the high capacity magazines? Would be really cool to see both companies start makeing them again or another go make a 1-1 reproduction
British logic: If it ain't broke don't fix it.
"What about the L85?"
*Gets scalding cup of tea thrown in face*
Thatcher wanted to sell off Royal Ordnance with an order on there books, thus the SA80 line was rushed an made on the cheap.
As in less then the M16, HK33 or FAMAS cost at the time.
It was built like a car by computer and an equally militant an pissed off work force to British Leyland.
The SA80 hasn't been "broken" for 20 years. It works and has quirks. Same as any rifle.
SA80 is now a great rifle. The M16 had similar development problems and got loads of soldiers killed during vietnam-this fact is now stashed alongside all the other inconvenient truths of the complete farces and atrocities during the vietnam war, never to be mentioned.
The coolest(and best) Hi Power magazine that I have, is several KRD mags from South Africa. THey hold 16 or 17 rounds(the 17th is really hard to load). They are very reliable and are only a bit longer than original FN mags.
I remember visiting a certain 'establishment ' in the mid eighties. It was guarded by Ministry of Defence police with Sterling SMGs and P35s fitted with extended magazines. I'm pretty sure that these could be ordered from FN.
oh .. its just update , that make sense . at first i though i got that time loop again
I could swear that the Canadian firm "Inglis" made 20 or 21 round magazines very early on.
Blake Stevens' booklet on the Inglis includes an exploded view diagram of parts. He doesn't mention extended magazines in there. I would have thought that one would have been available for the Chinese contract ...
Dat intro 👌
Hahah, glad you liked it
Obscure stuff like this is crack to gun history nerds.
Your voice the subject matter presentation is amazing subbed
In the excellent book The Operators: On the Streets with Britain's Most Secret Service
by James Rennie the use of the BHP by the members of that unit was discussed in depth, including the use of 20 round magazines.
When I was a SWAT guy in the 1990s and 2000s our duty pistol for the department was the S&W 5906, I found the excellent MecGar 20 round magazines worked really well in those guns, and in the Beretta M9, I suspect their BHP mags would be as good.
I love that you write an article I can skim or read first
I recently bought a MP5 and like seeing them in action.
Notice how they clamped huge flashlights on top of the MP5. Thankfully we now have smaller lights that are much brighter.
jesus christ it's like they welded an entire maglite onto it
@@fuckoff4705 its actualy a sight in itself! the center of the beam has a crosshair or dot in it. check out forgotten weapons video on it
Nice video! A video on the optic on SAS MP5's would be a great as well.
Thank you. Don't worry few more videos on this stuff coming.
Very interesting presentation thanks 😊
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching
I mentioned it in the first iteration of this video but are aware of how many troopers carried (how often it was used) the Browning competition model. I seem to recall seeing one being used during the embassy rescue.
Wooohoo round 2 here we go!
Esoteric? Brother, this is why I came here. My question is, if you are right handed, how is a wrist mounted mag holder on your left hand going to help? You would have to switch hands multiple times.
It's possible that guy was used his pistol Left handed? But yes, you'd think having the wrist mag on the gun hand would be much easier.
Very cool
The extra pistol bullets, are actually only for
the post-capture "interview"
5:20 How would you even load the whist mounted mag into the pistol?
Assuming the person only shoots his sidearm left-handed, he would just drop the empty mag and reload.
@@ErraticHail But he's holding the MP5 like he's right handed
Pretty nice!
My Hi Power had a Peters Stahl barrel and mass compensator , Pachmayer clamshell type grip and a variety of mags of varying capacities in blued steel and stainless . The barrel was an unported match grade in stainless 25 mm longer with a weight attached to the portion which extended from the slide , by the means of an allen screw which drew a tapered wedge forward to lock it to the barrel . The slight increase in length aided long range accuracy and coupled with the additional weight , reduced flip and sped up subsequent shots when " double tapping " . The original attachment method wasn't particularly good and the weight fell off a number of times when in heavy use . Roger , Colts ' AR15 Man ' in Thundersley, Essex remedied the problem for me by machining a corresponding ramp into the barrel .
Those wrist magazine holders were apparently called "Wrist Rockets"
Typo
". As seen in the photographs from the Iranian Embassy Siege the CRW squadron carrier their Hi-Powers in custom-made leather drop leg holsters which were made by Len Dixon and Paul Paul Evers. "
Paul Paul, or just one Paul ?
No one has ever said they wished they had less ammo when in a fire fight after all. I never noticed that belt mounted sledge hammer before though.
I never heard of wrist mounted magazine holsters before. I wounder if it really works well. I would expect it to be useful in shooting competition if it does. Maybe I need to try it out. Not sure how to make it work in the left wrist though. Like...how would you reload with it on the left? Well, some experimentation needed.
Not entirely sure how it works on the left wrist, that bit is a mystery.
@@TheArmourersBench If I find any answers, or figure it out testing, I will make sure to tell you.
@@TheArmourersBenchif the mag holder is elasticated, could the idea be to drop the empty and push the pistol onto the top of the fresh one and just pull away once it's clicked in place? That would allow the trooper to reload even if his left hand were injured or occupied (e.g. with a rope).
I'm not convinced the forearm mounted mag holder is for the benefit of the person wearing it but rather his battle partner next to him.
@@lordsummerisle87 That makes sense, but to my eye it doesn't seem like the magazine has nearly enough room to lock in. Maybe if it was a particularly tight-fitting magazine (mind you, I don't know if SAS retained the same magazines or if they just grabbed a few out of a pile when it was game time) it would work, but even then the time you'd spend doing such a weird, bungled movement, combined with the need to give it another good, solid tap to lock it in, negates any advantage that keeping a reload closer to your gun would give.
Woah not esoteric at all! The wrist mag holder, for the time seems awesome!
Ive seen the videos n pics n never caught that before, good eye!
These are the TAB videos i live for..
Also gives me an excuse to goto range n borrow a hipower... Thanks for that, i needed a decent excuse to blow 20$ n run through 50rnds
*ALSO*
How did no late 80s action hero movie not have those?
As itd fit arnolds wrist, or be cool in aliens... 1000% colonial marines type stuff especially when using the hk vp70s
Tho vp70z(eds) seems more fitting different off topic argument...
Or better still Snake "Detroit job" Pliskin
(even love his Polish last name as Poles were huge population of the city within Detroit - hamtramck, how does someone named Jayk, rhyming with snake, know that.. we'll never know... I can't admit to my Detroit jobs because of statue of limitations... I mean cus they never happened, ask in a few years) on point Snake Pliskin wats clearly from metro Detroit..
N totally needed wrist mags, if it doesn't interfere with his look..
VP70 is a cool looking pistol but that trigger is worse than a staple gun 😖
@@johngalt2506 and in a movie looks matter, plus the colonial marines probably would say it breaks like glass, smoothest trigger made after 2050
80’s action movie characters don’t reload, so no need for spare magazines
@@carter1541 no the need is to look cool n powerful.. they might not need them, but they're shorthand visually for who's badass
2:20 and around there: are those night vision optics on the MP-5s, or big ass flashlights?
Big ass flashlights!
Streamlight SL-20.
@@skepticalbadgerNope. Kel-lites.
The one thing I don't quite understand is the point of the wrist magazine holder. How was one supposed to grab it and insert it using the same hand its physically attached to doesn't at face value seem to make much sense.
The point is largely aesthetics, but with a dash of ergonomics. I'd consider them pioneers of their field and if they wanted a magazine on their wrist, by God they'll have one, right? Not my place to guess what a guy wants to have dangling from his wrist, even if it sounds stupid in modern times.
@@Interim936 I mean, if the thing was mostly exposed so that you could slam the empty pistol over your wrist or something along those lines I could see how guys in the 80's would have tinkered with the concept, if only to minimize the distance between fresh mag and the support hand that shoves it in the gun, but in that configuration it looks like you could slam the pistol onto it until the cows come home it's never going to insert deep enough to get the mag catch to hold it.
@@robertsmith4681this! That's how I see it done
Too bad no late 80s/90s action movie had it.. Arnold had the wrists to make it work
Esp Skynet Arnie
I am also interested on how you would make a left hand wrist magazine holster with the rounds facing up work. Do they bring the left hand up, somehow chopstick grab the magazine with the right fingers while holding the pistol, then transition it to your left to load. Or maybe it was solely for other teammates. If someone is out you give them the one on your wrist. It is just weird but fascinating.
@@robertsmith4681 How do you draw the floor plate of the magazine through the holster? Why do we never see this employed?
FN catalogue stuff those long mag’s
Thank you for telling this part of such a historic event.
This isn't the only SAS magazine modification. I remember reading that at about the same time H&K only made straight magazines for their MP5, but the SAS was having trouble with rounds feeding properly so they looked for a solution. Eventually the regiment's armorers came up with the idea of using curved magazines to reduce the stresses and they manufactured their own in house. Heckler & Koch liked them so much that they started making the curved magazines and now they've become part of the iconic shape of the MP5.
What's your source for this?
Can’t say I’ve ever heard that before. The MP5-10 has straight mags, but I’ve never seen a straight 9mm.
@@mattwilliams3456Yes the original MP5 mags were all straight and its was common to see BTP at airports with them. As to the SF fabricating new ones that is just so much piffle. The straight mags were reliable enough the Germans just sought to make them better.
As others have said the MP5 originally had straight mags, and later curved, for more reliable feeding. Different weight/shape bullets might have an effect too.
The transition took some time to complete. Note the famous shot at 2:23 where both straight and curved mags are visible during Op Nimrod.
@@lordsummerisle87 well spotted!
One SAS soldier to another.
“Hey mate, what is that jingling noise in your pocket? Have you got a spare extended HiPower magazine?”
“Sorry mate. Those are my big brass bollocks jingling about, not a HiPower magazine.”
😂
Trooper who grounded his pistol was RTU'd over it.
Rubbish.
Source?
Re-upload?
Yes but improved!
Now with testimony from guys who have BTDT ....
@@TheArmourersBench nice one thank you 😊
The 9 Milly
Wrist magazine is just out of reach of your left hand.
Hmm 🤔
Yes wrist mag holders must come back, even if only in an action movie...
Equilibrium had some spring loaded forearm mags, almost the same.
@@WozWozEre omg I forgot that movie... It did!
It's a good movie too if you can look past it's... Homages? Stolen ideas? Or 1984/brave new world meets matrix but on the side of humans being alive?
Hard to describe all the influences that movie draws on(or almost just copies).. still worth a watch if anyone is reading this comment has not seen it...
Plus it has everyone (who's right/takes Keaton's portrial as more comic book movie than serious contender) favorite Batman in it! Being a just gun-fu bad mofo
They were formed in 1940 buy David sterling
Nah, thats no extended mags, they are just not seated properly due to lack of training.
A Joke of course. 😁
Turn back your clock , sas arrive decades before, z force was a early copy. Ww2
High capacity magazines are important if you date a cop's ex-girlfriend! We are all human and infallible. Domestic conflict calls are the MOST dangerous.
The copied captain price!!