How to True a Wheel Part 4: Dishing/Centering
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- čas přidán 6. 06. 2024
- This video walks through the complete procedure of dishing and centering the rim, relative to the hub.
#wheeltruing
Questions or comments? Leave them below!
See all our wheel truing videos in our Wheel Truing playlist ▶︎ • Repair Help: Wheel Truing
Video contents:
00:00 Video Start
00:36 Preliminary Info
01:44 Recommended Tools
02:23 Checking Dish: Visual Test
03:06 Checking Dish: Using a Dishing Tool
07:16 Moving the Rim Over the Hub
10:25 Making the Correction
➤ Related Text Articles:
• Spoke Wrench Selection - www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...
• Wheel Dishing/Centering - www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...
➤ Tools & materials used:
• WAG-4 Professional Wheel Alignment Gauge - www.parktool.com/product/whee...
• WAG-5 Wheel Alignment Gauge - www.parktool.com/product/port...
• TS-2.2 Professional Wheel Truing Stand - www.parktool.com/product/prof...
• SW-2 Spoke Wrench - www.parktool.com/product/spok...
• TM-1 Spoke Tension Meter - www.parktool.com/product/spok...
• TL-6.2 Steel Core Lire Levers - www.parktool.com/product/stee...
For a text-based walk-through of this process: www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...
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➤ Fix It:
Did you know that Park Tool is the #1 resource for bicycle repair education?
• Visit our CZcams Channel: / parktool
• Visit the Repair Help section of Parktool.com: www.parktool.com/repairhelp
• Check out The Big Blue Book of Bicycle Repair: www.parktool.com/product/big-...
➤ More Wheel Truing Repair Help:
• How a Wheel Works - • How to True a Wheel Pa...
• Lateral Truing - • How to True a Wheel Pa...
• Radial Truing - • Video
• Tension - • How to True a Wheel Pa...
➤ About Park Tool:
Since our founding in 1963, Park Tool has been the leading name in bicycle tools. Our CZcams channel is an extension of our mission to be the ultimate resource for mechanics and riders of all skill levels. Here you will find comprehensive repair help tutorials for a wide range of components and processes, as well as troubleshooting guides, tips and tricks, and information on the latest Park Tool products. - Jak na to + styl
I have to say the quality of these tutorials is *truely* amazing. Watching them you get to know how to repair every part of your bike but also understand the underlying concepts of how everything works. Plus they are low-key, very relaxing, with the right amount of fun every now and then. No nonsense advertising. It is great to see a company putting so much efforts in helping their clients with actually valuable content like this. I definitely favor park tool gear whenever I hesitate on buying a new tool because, let's face it, no other tool company does anything close to this.
The graphical overlays / highlights and post-production of these videos is really good. Kudos to the team behind Calvin that helps produce this content.
This cannot be presented any better than this.
"This is an easy place to get confused". I got confused today, but squeezing the spokes made me understand - thanks so much!
Bicycles are the greatest invention ever! Thanks for all you do Calvin and Park Tools!
Nah, that would probably be something like the transistor.
This man, Calvin Jones (sorry if I misspelled it) is a National, no, International Treasure! The amount of help I've gotten from his videos is unmeasurable! Thank you!
Uu ju jjijjjjjjjijj
Bj
this knows every bike repair mechanic, so your comment shows your surprise with common knowledge
@@makantahi3731 You do realize that your comment contradicts itself don't you?
@@thepsychobilly88 no, to draw to you: any/every person that can be named as bike repair mechanic, should know these things, or knows , so it is common knowledge for mechanics , but for people that are not, it is surprise , or like big discovery, i watch it to see if is there something that i do not know, still nothing, everything were seen or done
Thank you for these 4 very clear tutorials. You saved me from buying a new wheel after my wheel "flexed" so much that the derailleur got caught in the spokes on a steep uphill. Just bought a new derailleur, trued up the wheel following your video (the spokes were all VERY loose from decades of neglect, apparently.. and I weigh 120+ kg on a late 1990's cheap "MTB" style bike lol.), and adjusted gears. Rides like new!
A friend with a bikeshop Is a friend indeed!!!
I just use one side of the calipers of my truing stand. Switch the wheel to the side where the caliper is closer to the rim (let say drive side on the left was closer). Make the caliper as close as possible for the entire circumference of the wheel. Switch the wheel (now drive side si on the right). The gap you see between the caliper and the rims has to be divided by 2 and that's the amount you need to move to get the wheel dished. Rince and repeat until you get your tolerance.
Thanks for going over it nice and slowly with plenty of details and tips you guys are the best
Excellent tutorial. So clear and easy to follow. Thank you Park Tool!
You're welcome!
Very good job guys , and helpful info . Thanks to your videos I've got my bike back . At first those spockes where a trip .
Excellent video, excellent instruction. Thanks!
Very informative,highly appreciated..
Thank for very useful sharing.
Just on time. Thanks
Thank you mr. Calvin Jones sir!
That's it, I'm getting mags like I had on my BMX bike as a kid! 😉✊️💯😅
Great video. I learned a lot
i was concerned why one side had more tension than the other when i trued the wheel .now i know its not a mistake i made ,its engineering of the hub .
Just bought a TS2.3 and WAG 4. Wish me luck!
Good luck!
Good luck. I have both of those tools too. They are really great, and essential for wheel building. I love it. It is a very precise art.
That entrance at 13:15 cracked me up.
I DID IT! I FINALLY DID IT!.
Grate Experience . appriciated
thank you sir
thanks
is that john fahey? awesome.
There's also a chance that the dropouts themselves are not centered with the frame. So an out of alignment wheel may not be a problem with the wheel. I dish a wheel on the bike it's supposed to go on, so that it's actually centered to the frame. Using a tool only ensures it's dished with respect to itself
I think this is my problem... ('THINK')! My rear when came off a Cannondale. Wheel is true and was center on that bike. Unfortunately it sets too far left on my Specialized. Is this common?
Probably best to fix the frame first.
@@allanhmelnitski978sometimes there is nothing to fix, some bikes just run the wheel offset to one side, usually the left due the design of the seat/chainstays being set inward for pedal clearance and cassette spacing. My old dh bike is set over an inch to the left
Check if your bike was built with Cannondale Ai (Asymmetric Integration) - shifted 6 mm to the right.
It is very nice
My god this is helpful
한국어 자막~~ AWESOME~
I never saw clearer !
Excellent video park tool. What kgf would you recommend for a unbranded wheel?
100 Kgf is pretty common except for very thin (light weight) aluminum rims.
Thanks Calvin for producing such a knowledgeable video. It will help a lot. But what to do when the rim is required to move on a side & the spokes already too tight & the spokes of other side are loose? Please advise. Regards.
Ignore the loose side. If the tight side is close to max, and the centering is correct, there is nothing you can do about the opposite side. The wheel should stay together as it is. If the hub design was so poorly done, there is still nothing you can do.
Sounds like you may be describing a damaged rim (from hitting a pothole or such).
Could it be spoke length is wrong?
@@andy56730 yes, if I am putting new spokes then might be wrong length. But if it is a company fitted wheel and dcentered then what should be done?
@@dineshhanda2301 buy a wheel that was correctly designed and built. Some wheels built on some hubs have a greater than 3:1 tension asymmetry (which is terrible for wheel longevity), notably Campagnolo 9 and 10 speed hubs, and some modern ones are almost as bad.
Great video. Would it be possible to make a whole wheel building from scratch? Thanks in advance.
Well, hold on to your hat, or rather helmet. That might be on the way.
Stay tuned!
My new 36 spoke wheels have a few spokes that measure 27 and one that is 27.5 on my park tensiometer, but the rim manufacturer says 26 is max spoke tension. Are my spokes too tight?
is it possible to dish wheel with few spokes like 21 spoke wheels or lesser?
I just completed using this excellent five part series as a wheel truing review. And I know that Calvin advises relying on a dishing tool for centering instead of the truing stand. This is because either the stand's centering might need adjusting and/or the hub/rim anomalies could throw things off. However, this still bugs me. I've checked my TS-4.2 with both the 1554-1 centering gauge and a WAG-4 dished wheel and the factory configured centering is still perfect. However, when I place either my rear thru-axle or front quick-release rim on the stand its never centered. I won't name the brand but my bike did come with cheaper OEM hubs. I'm going to eventually replace my rear hub with an XD-driver, so I'm hoping that a better quality hub will improve the centering in the truing stand. I would just prefer to do everything (lateral, radial, dishing, spoke tension) in the TS-4.2.
It sounds like your up rights are not center. Park has a video on it, but what I do is open the upright to where they look About straight up and down, loosen the shaft collars, then use a small lever to make sure the uprights are perfectly level, moving them over and loosing and tightening the big knob until they are both level. Then I would re adjust your caliper alignment again
It is very possible for a frame to be offcenter / bent as well as a wheel. Or you could be misssing a washer at the axle mount.. OR the axle has moved in the hub because of conical bearings being adjusted from only one side.
Suspension Setup with a Hardtail 😁
Major query: have you given up completely on using the self-centring feelers (when correctly calibrated) as an indication of more-or-less approximate dish? I seem to remember reading a calibration instruction (which also changed over time from moving the wheel support arms spindle collars, to moving the feeler support arm to achieve this), and I also own the lump of aluminium (# 1554-1) that is meant to be the calibration tool. I recollect that the TS-2, 2.2 and 4.2 give good dishing information on 126mm rear wheels, but not so good on 100, or 130< mm hubs. Why is this so?
No truing stand can be as accurate as a dishing tool. That is the nature of truing stands that must move from very narrow to very wide hubs, and from very small to very large rim diameters. The dishing tool is always the last statement on center.
Hubs and wheels bring their own set of anomalies such as dented axles, bent axles, different diameter end caps. Stack that on top of the tolerance stack of the stand and the amplification of those things due to the long upright arms makes a dishing gauge is the most accurate way of telling wether a wheel is dished or not. The stand will give you a great idea of dish but you should not rely on it to dish wheels even if it is perfectly calibrated.
Hello Bonjour , merci Thank you 👍
I was wondering why my wheel was angled towards the left of my frame. If I can gauge the wheel's alignment to the frame with my eyes, and work with the wheel still in the drop outs, I'd imagine this would this be a good workaround for a home mechanic that doesn't have the truing stand and dishing tool, correct? Thanks for the video. Very helpful and required knowledge for a learning bike mechanic like myself.
Be sure the wheel is in the dropouts fully before using the frame or fork as a gauge. The frame can be a great gauge as that is what you are trying to have the wheel centered in.
@@parktool Thanks for your reply. I always make sure my wheel is fully in the dropouts before tightening up the QR skewer after I do anything wheel related. I am thinking about going over to a local bike shop and have them check my derailleur hangar before I center the rim.
@@parktool I successfully centered my rim! I also solved my wobbly rear tire issue; my rim was out of true for all this time (which was about 3-4 months). Thanks again for this video series.
How about Cannondale assymetric frames ?
Though i am a Doctor, i am going to learn the basic course of Bike Mechanic♥️
@parktool
On a rear wheel with both cassette and disc what side has higher tension?
The side that is "flatter", which is the side that has the flange inset more. On a rear wheel, it is the drive side, the right side with the cassette.
So you dish with tension and not with spoke length ? Or could it be a mixture of both ? I heard one side of spokes is usually 2mm longer.( I'm lacing a rear boost hub by the way 12x148 12 speed.)
Kinda both but spoke length is where it should start. The driveside is typically shorter. The difference varies quite a lot based on hub geometry and if there is rim offset or not.
with tension, you control spoke length in side of wheel, and by default on usual wheel left spoke is longer than right,
At what point in building a new wheel should you start paying attention to dishing?
Pretty much as soon as lateral and round look decent.
dishing is suitable to do together with overall tightening
What is that green rim tape?
My question to Chef Jones, I have plans for buying an e-hub for front about 350w, they usually come about 24h min. and 36-32h usually more common. Bike is gonna be AWD) if possible, I'll get 24h match, but as an alternative, if I find 32h hub, could it be possible to weave the rim in such a way, by 1 empty, 3 spoked holes arrangement with a 24h hub? In other words, 8-empty, 24-full holes by hub and 24-full holes by the rim equally. (I have 24h rims and poor deals for 24h e-hubs, prolly go with the 32h e-hub please help)
I know it works 1:2 ratio but never tried 3:4.
yes i saw this but it is not good idea because spoke geometry is not proper, i would call it unstable geometry, and e bikes destroy wheels that are properly set so your has more chance to fail
@@makantahi3731 I researched this after asking Martin. And you're wrong, actually this 2:1 weaving is first introduced by Ford to improve strength, distribute force on the drive side and balance it. And Shimano 2022 XTR and high ends like Saint are using this technique.
With that said, it's only good for uneven forced wheels, like with the drive side. Not good for front wheel where the force is equal amongst both sides.
I answered my own question as always.
@@XavierBetoN ok, then just do it
@@makantahi3731 I won't be doing since it is front wheel I'm going to motorize.
Thanks for answering anyways
Good day! Will a 700x38c tire fits a 27.5 rims?
No it won't, the diameters don't match.
@@yonglingng5640 ohh okay thankss
If your TS-2 or 4 is properly calibrated, shouldn't you be able to use both feeler indicators simultaneously to dish the wheel? I thought that's the reason the #1554-1 centering gauge exists.
Very good question! @Park Tool
The purpose of a truing stand is to hold the wheel steady and isolate issue of spoke tension. However no truing stand can duplicate the accuracy of a dishing tool. A truing stand must be able to adjust from very narrow hubs to very wide rear hubs, and also from large 29er wheels to small child's wheels. The stand will get a wheel reasonable to centering and but the dishing tool will always be more accurate.
@@parktool so why have symmetrically actuated truing feelers at all? The design is redundant if they're not doing what they were originally designed to do.
@@zygmuntthecacaokakistocrat6589 that you have to ask tool designer, i made truing stand with separate moving feelers, left, right ,up/down
When using a Wheel Dishing Tool why do you measure on the lock nuts instead of on the cup of the hub? Wouldn't the cup be more accurate in terms of the hub being center with the wheel?
Measure the part of the wheel that touches the frame. For a threaded axles, that is the lock nut. For thru axle, it is the end cap.
What is use dishing tools ???
why would you need the dishing tool if you can see if the rim is of center with the truing stand? or im missing something? can a wheel that is true using the truing stand be out of center? i dont get it..thanks
Any truing stand made gives an approximation of dish in the bike. A truing stand cannot duplicate the exact conditions, width, and spacing of the frame. That is why the dishing tool is the most accurate method to check centering of the wheel.
@@parktool that makes sense. what if i have the wheel attached to the frame and using a zip tie to true it? if its out of dish i should see wheel touching one side or another right? my question is more related to if a wheel can be true but the dish not...which i believe not...thanks
I always thought the Park truing stands automatically centered the wheel...
Hey can I ask a rookie question here cause I just can't stand a wobble in an mtb 27.5 and I really should have bought a road bike earlier. So here goes idk how i get the reply if possible but say I'm trueing doing the the tension squeeze on bike on its saddle. Tighten I dont want to overdo but so is tightening clockwise to come to my right side(rotor side)? Thi bike is a Ghost Square and it just would be so nice to spin new. Wheels need that right to spin>>> lol thanks for speaking and teaching bro the foothills of foco noco love u.
How I always do it in my stand, which should be the same for you bike upside down on the seat and bar’s, is when you hook you thumb on the tool (right hand) and pull back towards the drive side is tighten, so counter clockwise, and when you push the spoke wrench with your thumb towards the non drive side (clockwise) is loosen. hope this helps
What about when you have a perfect rear wheel (w cassette and rotor) perfect dish with no error but the drive side tension is too high AND the non drive side tension is too low? Any suggestions pls?
Can you give tension numbers to this problem? What is the drive side and non-drive side tension?
@@parktool Rear wheel non drive side 77.10, Rear wheel drive side 145.92. Mfg specs are 105-120. Wheel is dished and true.
What you should be looking for is that Mfg spec to be on the drive side. The non driveside will almost always be less. Significantly less depending on axle spacing, hub design and rim design.
@@parktoolthanks kindly.
@@parktool one last question, are you saying the mfg spec range (105-120) only applies to the drive side?
If the wheel is true and within 1mm dish could you not just adjust the cones and axle to move the wheel over by 0.5? I appreciate that not all hubs can’t be adjusted this way, so you may have to dish the wheel using this method.
You then shift your chainline which could cause a problem down the line in shifting or chain retention. It is best practice to adjust dish via centering the rim over the hub.
@@parktool and disc line
too much effort too small gain, the smallest nipple rotation that would make rim travel is about 90 deg or as i call it half a turn, so depends of many things it could be possible but in some cases rim could went on other side for 1 mm, so lose-lose situation
I hate wheel errors and spoke adjusting😢
Radial truing video doesn't work
My old bike developed some severe issues with this after my one and only visit to Halfords, and I stopped noticing eventually until I finally replaced the bike and realised how cromulent it had got.
Don't do Halfords, kids.
i just replaced a rim on my wheel and be couse i don't have dishing gauge i mesuared distance betwen frame and a wheel on both sides .
is that okay to do ?
That is a good way to do it. You can also use a couple soup cans to rest the rim on and stack up quarters to the axle then flip the wheel and compare.
thanks i alredy doone it
Flat object at least as long as your wheel diameter, mount equally long standoffs at the point of your rim diameter with duct tape. Make the standoffs longer than your frame width and anything it might snag on, like a derailleur or kickstand.Confirm this tool's accuracy so any point from the flat object to a flat surface it stands on is the same. Measure distance to the locknut with a sliding caliper. no need to remove the wheel.
What a load of crap!
@@mikefandango2296 go ahead and explain in what way is this makeshift tool less accurate than bought one. Sliding vernier caliper is more accurate than whats needed here
@@jozefsk7456 we can’t understand what you are waffling on about? Tape😂 are you actually using the frame in this?
i wouldn't want a guy with duct taped tools working on my bike...
@@bmxscape spending more money doesnt make the tool magically better. 0.02mm accuracy is overkill. What else is there? you have no argument
By the time in done fixing this goddamn bike itll be winter
Why not use a real mtb instead of this 😂😂 cmon park tool