How to True a Wheel Part 5: Spoke Tension
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2024
- This video walks through the complete procedure of measuring, adjusting, and balancing spoke tension.
#wheeltruing
Questions or comments? Leave them below!
See all our wheel truing videos in our Wheel Truing playlist ▶︎ • Repair Help: Wheel Truing
Video contents:
00:00 Video Start
00:15 Preliminary Info
00:45 Why is Spoke Tension Important?
01:38 How do You Measure Spoke Tension?
04:39 Adjusting Wheel Tension
06:07 Reducing Tension
06:57 Tension Balancing
08:01 Knowing When to Stop
➤ Related Text Articles:
• Spoke Wrench Selection - www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...
• Wheel Tension App Instructions - www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...
➤ Tools & materials used:
• TS-2.2 Professional Wheel Truing Stand - www.parktool.com/product/prof...
• SW-2 Spoke Wrench - www.parktool.com/product/spok...
• TM-1 Spoke Tension Meter - www.parktool.com/product/spok...
• Park Tool Wheel Truing App - www.parktool.com/wta
For a text-based walk-through of this process: www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...
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• Visit our CZcams Channel: / parktool
• Visit the Repair Help section of Parktool.com: www.parktool.com/repairhelp
• Check out The Big Blue Book of Bicycle Repair: www.parktool.com/product/big-...
➤ More Wheel Truing Repair Help:
• How a Wheel Works - • How to True a Wheel Pa...
• Lateral Truing - • How to True a Wheel Pa...
• Radial Truing - • Video
• Dishing/Centering - • How to True a Wheel Pa...
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Since our founding in 1963, Park Tool has been the leading name in bicycle tools. Our CZcams channel is an extension of our mission to be the ultimate resource for mechanics and riders of all skill levels. Here you will find comprehensive repair help tutorials for a wide range of components and processes, as well as troubleshooting guides, tips and tricks, and information on the latest Park Tool products. - Jak na to + styl
This video taught me I have a zero chance of ever trueing a wheel correctly .. I appreciate the knowledge
I have only been truing bike wheels for a few months, it's easier than you think to tru a wheel in my opinion. Some wheels can be more difficult to tru than others but if you understand how it works it's not that difficult. I have learned it myself from watching videos of how to do it on CZcams so i think you can learn it too. 😊
I learned 3 tips from these videos and websites, and that helped a lot:
1. you need to check the tension, do it by hand if no tool, as shown in the video 2 spokes by 2, feel the tension, if a spoke is too soft it will bend more and feel softer. Augment the tension of these spokes that are obviously too soft. I started with that point, and the wheel was already almost true! then only a few minor corrections by checking the side alignement, and it was done...
2. important point to remember, you need to turn the tool in the opposite direction than expected (you are NOT turning the spoke, but the thread around it!).
3. proceed by 1/4 turn only... then check again the tension or alignment, and if needed, another 1/4 turn. Rinse and repeat.
Honey... I found an exciting series that we need to watch this evening 😬😬😬
Dirk G - spoke "fasteners"
Best comment.
You too huh?
@@bob-ny6kn ive spoken fast, but mostly i speak normally.
She took my phone, desperately trying to turn this show off
Man, you know when you have 5 videos about a subject there,s going to be many factors involved! Thank,s a bunch for this Co. And members work on these. Gt..Gt...counter clockwise to tighten (on the bottom)
I work in the US aerospace industry and I can confidently say that this is more complicated than actual rocket science.
Doubt it
Doubt it
... as a cleaner? 🤣
@@ivancho5854 Engineer
Amazing videos. I learned a lot I love working on my own Hightower 🤘🏽
Great series. Having seen it all, it seems that wheel building and truing is not complicated, just tedious.
Yes, it's tedious and repetitive.
@@stefanopassiglia Think of it as meditation.
It is complicated, if there is no reference for particular wheel.
@@MrSzwarzYes, specially when dealing with used parts. Back in the pandemic when there was parts scarcity, I had to lace a couple wheels with mixed parts, it gets harder if you dont know very much the history of the parts that you're going to use. It's doable, but results vary and may be not safe for certain high stress purposes. Nevertheless, my wheelset served well for a 700mi journey, 30kg of bags, road tyres, the wheels stayed true all the way and my cantis never failed. The bike was a Bianchi Advantage 1990, my uncle now owns it and uses it on a daily basis.
Esattamente quello che stavo cercando... perfetto, grazie
Very good video! Love these
Excellent!!!
Thanks, these videos are nice!
No problem! Thanks for watching!
At first I made it worse. After careful tensioning back and forth, and sometimes loosening instead of tightening, I feel i got it pretty perfect. Now I get to this video and have to see about the tension. I guess I'll be buying this tensioning toy now. 😭👍😆
youll know if its too loose because your wheel will go out of true again once you ride it. also its a good idea once you true your wheel, to go back and tighten all the spokes again by an equal amount to make sure theyre tight enough, just not going too tight that theres no good flex
Great wheel series.👍
I developed my own motto when truing wheels with limited tools available, as much as possible, turn the nipples as lesser as possible, to achieve that, both sides should be adjusted simultaneously, light tightening turn on one side and also light loosening turn on its opposite side in the "area of influence", it avoids the spokes reaching the bottom of the nipples to make room for further truing procedures later on, accuracy will be compromised if i didn't count how many turns i set on each nipple because i dont have a tension measuring device, starting up i use four complete turns on every spoke before determining the area of influence all around the rim before starting the lateral and radial truing and since i don't have a truing stand i place the rim right on the bike frame dropout itself as a visual centering tool lol
get truing stand, and good nipple wrench and you will see that all your philosophy is unnecessary, in short words: nipples must be rotated so much to get wheel even and in centre
Thanks
Salamat po (thank you)
walang anuman
I think I'm way too OCD when I build wheels, I get my spoke to spoke difference within a half of number on the TM1, if not less. I never have wheel issues and get many miles, but I'm always curious how much it actually matters. 20% tension difference would drive me insane.
mantullllllllll
I bought your spoke tension tool ,but its to wide fir my ebike short spokes, do you sell one that is 3.75 inch width thanks
I watched the first few videos on lateral, radial, and dish truing. Where does this "tension balancing" technique come into play? Is this done after the wheel has been adjusted for lateral, radial, and dish true?
All of these effect one another. That means that as you start closing in on god lateral true you move to radial, dishing then balancing but you will need to go back through and check and correct them all again. It can take a few rounds of this back and forth.
So what if I have a second hand bike with "generic" wheels. How would I find what the tension might be?
I'm having a heck of a time trying to find Bontrager's recommended spoke tension for Race Lite wheels. I don't know what they felt like when new, so I have no reference point.
A Trek dealer should be able to look that up for you. 100 KGF is a safe bet if you cannot find the max.
What kind of spoke o' the chart should I look up to in your chart, for a Zipp 202 firecrest ? And if someone has the spoke tension for these wheels, i'd much appreciate having that info, as it's not available at the manufacturer site. Thx
It would be best to ask this of SRAM.
I pass this.
Thanks for great info. How do i calibrate my TM-1 ?
The TM-1 is calibrated using a 2mm steel spoke pulled to 121 kilograms force. We can do this at Park Tool if you send it in.
www.parktool.com/en-us/our-services/tm-1-service-repair
So for front wheel with disc brake on left side, the spoke tension would be higher on the left side, correct?
Correct!
All of the videos that I have found on wheel truing have rims where the spokes form a single row. The 20 X 3 inch rear wheel on my Lectric XP 2.0 has the spokes in two parallel rows approximately 1.5 inches apart. The angle of the spoke from the hub to the rim appears to be a lot less than on wheels with a single line of spokes. What is the procedure for adjusting a wheel like the one that I have?
The procedure is the same for your wheel with offset spoke nipples. These are common on fatbikes and even some mountain bikes. The fundamentals of how the wheel works is the same and the process of tightening and loosening the spokes to gain trueness is also the same.
@@parktool Thanks for the information. I also used your web site to find a wheel building class that is only a few blocks from my home. I will be attending their next class.
Does this video series apply to hub motor wheels as well?
It would.
I love these hotdog per square eagle units
Not really. 😑
A critical question: what is the name of the units on the TM-1 (etc.) indicator dial? Are they SI units? & why are they in base 50? I call them PTUeys (Park Tool tension Units ) "Yep, that wheel is dialled up to 22 PTUeys (an obscure Imperial version of kgf {or lbf}, maybe . . . )
All tensiometers bend or deflect a spoke. The more the deflection, the lower the tension of the spoke. The TM-1 deflects 0.1mm per scale unit. If the moving stud engages a spoke at 20, and deflects to 17, that is 03mm. These are arbitrary units that provide relative tension. All such tensiometers provide a chart to correlate this deflection to a tension pull. For the TM-1 see www.parktool.com/assets/doc/product/TM-1_conv-table.pdf
This is explained in the instructions. For further detail see www.parktool.com/wta
"You don't have to have a perfect wheel to enjoy the ride".
TRUE!
Also, I: being super triggered while riding knowing that my wheels aren't perfect.
the first time i built a wheel when i was like 13, the wheel was egg shaped and made the bike shake violently at high speed lol.
i did enjoy the ride tho
What do I so if my front wheel is slanted to the side? It's not a dishing or truing problem, so when my frame and forks are standing 90° perfectly vertical my front wheel is sitting at about 110° to the left. It's axle is perfectly centered on the forks, so why is the wheel leaning to the side? Please help, I've tried to fix this for a few months now
Are there cheaper ways measure spoke tension?
My pre built hope Fortus wheelset seems to have higher tension up front than the rear. I don't have any tools I just pluck it and based on the sound it seems a bit tighter. I know about the driveside rear and disc side front has higher spoke tension.
I just finished my custom built wheelset and ended up having tighter tension on the front too. Is this all right? Thanks!
If it is the same rim, normally it is the same tension on the tighter side of the wheel. For a rear, that is the right side. For a disc wheel front, that is the rotor side.
I might have overtightened a bit Or the difference in sound must be from minute spoke length and dishing imbalance but I got it down to almost perfect radial and lateral. I used my frame set and zip tie/finger and feeling by sight. I also used my floor tiles and a measuring tape to check dishing. LOL.
I also over estimated my spoke length by around 3mm longer. Good thing I used Sapim D lights which doesn't bottom out with too long spokes.
What's the worst case scenario that is possible for spokes that are too long? Is my build compromised? Peeking through the holes I could see about 1 and 3 mm spoke threads above nipples.(same lengths for all on hope pro 5s) I tightened a bit more and kept thinking I'm about to use up all the threads in the spoke. LOLS. Thanks!
@@parktool I just got it to make it sound the same. A bit of tightening around the driveside rear and loosening the left.
It may be the larger tires on the front of my other front wheelset that make it sound tighter or It's really not that tight too.
Can you Loosen and Tighten spokes with a deflated tire on or does the tire have to be removed to do this.???
The tire can be on. Rim tension specification assume there is no tire, so simply deflate when setting a maximum tension. It will drop a bit when fulling inflated.
@@parktool Thank You for the response.!!!
How do I find the KGF tension on a vintage rim like a Schwinn , that has no web site ?
There will not be able to find anything on that wheel. 80-100KGF.
@@parktool 😶🌫 Thanks
How much less tension should the side with the larger bracing angle have?
Jason Long - The gauge has an arbitrary deflection scale (for ease of reading) that translates to tension values (this chart is available online). Your spoke type (typically 2.0mm round stainless) will have a range that you will mentally divide into thirds. Drive side spokes should fall into the highest third, non-drive side into the lowest.
Typically about 30% less tension on the non drive side for a rear wheel.
I was thinking wouldn't be better to tension first then do radial and lateral truing?
You could do radial first. Lateral is the most common aspect needing correction, so that was first up here.
No, it makes no sense to try to balance tension before you've trued your wheel, because while truing your wheel, you might throw off the balance in tension.
@@sop4688 i disagree. this is something you dont do regularly. more of an initial set-up/ longterm health inspection. same with dishing. radial and lateral will need more adjustments as the wheel settles and the spokes stretch over time. every 3-4 truing touch ups you should assess the overall health of the wheel though.
on new wheel, first goes initial tension(20-40kgf) then l/r then up/down, again l/r, dish+finall tension, all that in 16 minutes for standard rear 26" 32h wheel
On a rear wheel should the tension of the spokes be the same on both sides? I had A G3 power meter in Hed Belgium. The tension is much less on the non-drive train. Is this normal?
The side with the flange that is more inset will have higher tension. On the rear, the drive side flange is inset toward the center compared to the non-drive. It will always more tension, and this is normal.
@@parktool thanks for the reply
@@parktool Are the non drive side spokes can also be the same tension as drive side because of different spoke lenght?
My front tire on my e-bike is creaking. I used a spoke wrench. It's still creaking.
Does that mean if there all exactly the same tension does that mean that it would be dead straight
No, it does not. Rims are simply hoops on aluminum, steel or carbon fiber. None are perfect before lacing. These structures have internal tensions just sitting on the shelf. But they don't need to be perfect to go ride the bike!
The only problem with your park tool tension checker is that it's too small for electric hub wheels that are 20 in. You can't even get it on the spoke It's almost impossible.. You could do the front wheel barely but not the back It's just too difficult.
I wish they made the same tool but smaller for smaller wheels with the modern hub electric bike wheels.
You could try to get in touch with bike shops and see what they use. Manufacturers are likely going to have fully automated systems, but small specialist manufacturers may do it manually, so they may be worth a try (unless they just buy in complete wheels). Alternatively you could make one. Rabbit holes are always deeper than they first appear. 😑
I just got a new bike and the spokes are making pinging noises, do I need to tighten them?
If this is a consistent pinging, it is likely they need tightening.
@@parktool so should I tighten all the spokes consistently to keep the shape of the rim, or just the ones that are pinging? Thanks
which side is the drive side and which side is the non drive side on 1. the rear wheel, 2. the front wheel?
"Drive side" and "Non-Drive" are given from the riders point of view. The right side of the rear wheel with the chain and sprockets is the drive side. The right side of a front wheel is the drive side, even though there is no chain. The rotors of a front disk wheel are on the non-drive side.
I have DT Swiss PR1600 wheels, but discovered that spoke tensions are different than in DT Swiss manual table. I am confused what is correct, when I tried to set up to a correct factory tension for the rear wheel, it appeared that the wheel was out of dish (change its geometry). I had to go back to really high tension 190kgF (instead of recommended 130kg, steel blade spokes for 1.1 x 2.8mm). This is really confusing.
"If it ain't broke..."
On my new bike both wheels are ~1 mm off to the left, ie the side of the brakes. Lots of clearance so it's not an issue, but still...
I bought DT-Swiss and they are the same!
It's the first time I see that on a bike, at first it made me mad, but otoh this is my first bike with disc brakes so I decided to go with it.
@@DR_1_1yeah, I’ve got new DT Swiss wheels as well, and some of the spokes loosened after like 3 rides. Kind of annoying. I just hand tightened them to roughly match the tension of the others.
So the drive side spokes should be tighter then the non drive side , heck this would’ve helped a lot if I knew earlier !
That is correct.
@@parktool And what about the front wheel? First the non disc side or it does not matter on front wheel? Also the tension on front wheel on the disc side should be stronger as the other one or both sides can have the same tension? Thank you
i do it by tapping the spokes and listening to them lol
I wouldn't do that if spokes are in contact with other spokes...
Hi
My front wheel tension became loose 😔 now my wheel is wobbly. Brakes can't fit properly it keep braking while I'm not 🤧
it could happen to wear rim unevenly so once you true wheel, brakes will vibrate because uneven rim width
Nice series, and I learn a lot! But I think one of the most important achievements of the metric system is distintiction between force and mass. Please, do not ruin that by using "kgf" as a substitute for force. It is not a thing in SI. Newton will spin in his grave! Just trolling ;-)
Lol, this is not our fault I promise. Now, let's talk about Centrifugal force.
what units are on weight scale, kg?! , and what should be , N?, mass can be calculated through force
Product improvement suggestion: Add some contrast to the scale so you can read the darn tick marks and numbers!! Say yellow lettering on that anodized blue field. A simple human factors consideration in any design.
It has been on the list for some time now. Wish it were an easy change but we'll keep looking at options.
Have you tried a Sharpie or nail varnish?
Shouldn't the animation 0:20 be reversed? I believe that turning clockwise decreases the tension.
🌟
optical illusion
depends on point of view, right hand thread
I was going to post a stupid comment but then I would have spoke too soon.
Só faltou legenda em português BR !
Where's Calvin??!!
Why couldn’t you true a wheel by setting at least one side to all the same KGM?
Good question. In theory, yes, you could start there. But rims are not perfect even when new. It would be a place to start, but would still require some spokes to be tighter relative to others.
because of real world, nothing is perfect, things are between totally unperfect and perfect, always is correction needed
I discovered this the hard way. Had to replace 1 spoke and measured tension from both sided. Thought I would tension brake side to 25 and 20 the other.. Now I have a ridiculously wonky tyre. Well gotta learn the hard way.
What are your thoughts on Jim Langley's philosophy of "it's almost impossible to over-tension a wheel"?
czcams.com/video/XUqul03hbZ8/video.html
If you find rims with deformity at each nipple or eyelet, or rims that are blown out nipple holes, that is clear evidence of too much tension. It is nearly impossible to over tension a spoke, but the spoke is only one part of the wheel system. Rim and even hubs can be over tensioned.
Any spoke is better than no spoke ,Any tension is better than no tension or no spoke I'm doing it just by feel because to replace 4 spokes they want 65 dollars ...he wouldn't accept 50
hahaha nipple
Spokes are way too complicated. So many ways for Them to go wrong.
Just think of them as bolts and the nipples as nuts. Things can happen but typically those problems can be solved.
i did not noticed that, i have no problem with them , for years
Seriously - not having CLEARLY READABLE numbers in another color on the measuring tool is a BIG no-no!
Other than that - great video!
Useless for home users
Not at all.