Is This The Future Of Modern Basketball Offense?
Vložit
- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- In Part 2 of my video series on Saint Joseph's Offense, I continue my offensive breakdown, taking a look at how they move off the ball. Also I analyze more principles and also how they practice. Their unique style of no set plays and no pick and rolls certainly should have the attention of NBA teams and coaches.
Part 1 if you missed it: • Why NBA Teams Should S...
Follow me on Twitter: / iamcoachdaniel - Sport
The hardest part of this is the coach letting go of control (players make their own decisions) and being a good enough coach to teach the concepts. Alot of people think it's easy... but in reality, to teach this, can be very difficult, and you have to do it properly. Good work Coach!
Yeaah Im working on it rn. Wish we can make it..
this is such a logical and elite breakdown. when i hoop i dont even think about all of that. i just slide to empty spots and keep moving til i'm open
For us amateurs yah it would be like that, but on the big leagues they practice this pattern until they master every type of this pattern, so yeah it's still a play that the coach is utilizing.
Spacing is the key
Simple and effective. So they don't have to remember all the fancy sets, yet they still know what to do and what their teammates are doing...
Tdtw in the house!
Hey guys, if there's one part I wish I talked about more it would be about how they practice. It's super important in building up the reads of the players to practice in 3 on 0 settings and also in 3 on 3 and 4 on 4 settings in a competitive fashion
They relied on implicit learning instead of a coach breaking things down and trying to get players to learn explicitly. This applies to passing reads to the fact they didn't work on players shooting forms (or do block shooting practice).
So to me the practice along with the smart style of play combines to make a pretty special offense. 99th percentile in offensive efficiency speaks for itself.
Coach, how can this work in 2-3, 1- 2-2 etc defense?
Is it realy the first time you see this? I had practices like that in 9th grade or even before and many other teams play this kind of motion or similar ones.
Coach Daniel loves this lots coach
Here are most of the 3-0 drills for the foundation layers of the offense. vimeo.com/88583503
Yes, coach Daniel,
I’m on the SJC MONKS.
We have practiced so many 2on0, 3on0, 3on3....
You described us so well and, I will keep following you 🤝
This is read and react. Love this. It's amazing how at youth level everyone plays pick and rolls and double screens and all this s..t. but they forget the basic, pass and cut. The whole fundamental basketball
Yuck pass and cut lol pass and cut where ?
Seems a lot like 5 out Read and React offense (better bball) with some Dribble Drive principles for the dunker spot.
It is.with different layers.
It is. They add in some zone attack principles where the short corner or dunkers spot is a valid spot for rotation against man, and they treat the dribble at east west layer reaction the same as the north south dribble penetration circle movement layer.
It is ! My team play read and react for 10 years!
I’m on year 9 in the read and react.
I was lookin for this comment...thats what i saw too
So a lot of people already mentioned this is Rick Torbett's Read and React offense. It's been around for about 10 years, I think. It's great stuff. Coach Torbett designed it to be flexible, so if you have an elite big or a PnR guard, they can easily be incorporated. One of the principles is you modify the decision making rules based on each player. A post up big should shape up to the ball in the post after a cut more often than a shooter would, for example,
Given that I think this will still translate to the NBA. It's not an equal opportunity offense. You can still funnel the ball to your primary guys.
Also interesting is the little practice clips at the end. That 3 on 3 with an advantage is straight out of Brian McCormick's SABA (Small Advantage, Big Advantage) Offense. It teaches players how to grow a small advantage initiated by a trigger (screen, cut, drive kick) into a big advantage (an open shot or a driving lane). The Utah Jazz run a lot of this stuff. It's game based coaching, fewer sets, and teaching HOW to play rather than just teaching plays.
I think all youth coaches should start coaching this way. Odds are the kids who learn with you aren't going to be with you through high school or college. They should be taught conceptually how to play rather than learning how to run a pick and roll your way.
@js59695 I think it was about 10 years ago when Rick Torbett first introduced the Read and React system with the codified "layers". It was also when I was first introduced to it in that context. But yes, I imagine cutting and moving without the ball was around as long as basketball has been.
Thank you for your insight.
@js59695 Okay.
Watching principle four I couldn't thinking of having more complex motions. Seems that the most important thing is knowing where everyone is or is going to be. More complex patterns would make it harder to plan against but would require much more practice. I think the pay-off would be worth it, through. More unpredictable moment in this style would be something I would love to see NBA teams do. Great videos, really got my brain going and a lot of fun! Thanks, D'!
In europe we call this basketball from 10 years ago
and?
Yeah...basically yes
no ones asking btw
@@sheesh8392 hes saying usa loss to them this year
Looks a extra player from the bench
I play at local tournaments, my team is not that experienced, but sometimes we run this not intended and we do get easy shots and layups. We always trying to figure out what we were doing when its working to practice it or keep doing it later on, over complicating it. This makes me think into it more detailed. We just used to call it, spread out and run in circles while running away from the man with the dribble =).
I know exactly what you're saying. We found it easier to replicate this with a 4 on 4 practice. It's what to do with that 5th guy is the challenge. Next time we'll plug him into to that baseline see what happens....of course we also need big guys that can move without the ball and pass. Lol
running away from the man with the dribble is the key.
@@sukanok , thanks. That is the simple key to teaching this.
you pretty much read the person with the ball, and you read and react to what your defender gives you. If the step up in deny you back cut, when you pass you cut, when somebody dribbles at you, you cut. Always cut based on which side the ball is on and where the ball handler attacks from.
Thanks again for sharing these two videos. It looks very much like Rick Torbett's READ AND REACT OFFENSE. I have watched one of his clinics, and I have the R&R DVDs. I also have used the R&R with some of my teams, and it's beautiful to see them learning how to read the game, make decisions, etc.
Because it is his offense lol
This really teaches kids how to play basketball! Spacing, ball movement, read and react.
All seems so fluid and its so simple...I kind of love this
It was common in Europe to play this way. Specially if you're playing against a 2-3 or 3-2 zone defense. Lots of movement, indirect pick to allow space for shooters. It's funny because when people nowadays talk about the Gasol brothers or Jokic, they talk about "a guard in a center body", but it's common to play this way in Europe high school levels.
Really great breakdown on both videos, I will be impletmenting some of this with my Freshman Boys team! I like the part about a minute in where they are passing all over the place and you say, "I could watch that all day!" I was just thinking that was great passing, spacing and offense and was enjoying watching it! That was great!
Thanks -- very interesting! 1:20 i don't play or watch basketball, but played soccer for many years...filling in behind is always important in soccer...the best situation in soccer for increasing the number of options when some avenue closes is if player with ball goes to middle, others fill in on left, right plus another layer behind the guy with the ball in the middle (and if possible two more on that second layer's wings)... now the guy with the all can dribble, pass to wing or shoot if there is an opportunity, or if not, send back to the layer behind, 'switch the field' and try another lane. Love watching your tactic breakdown -- it is fun to see an offense stupefy a defense.
Lot's of motion, how does that effect substitutions? I expect that this offense would have to go deep into the bench.
Right, it would also be significantly more tiring, both physically and mentally
Mentally its not exhausting cause as a player you r very involved in the offense. Unless u hust have no condtioning which is not a excuse at the Nba lvl
@@jamesg9582 LOL. Even the most conditioned athlete will have his moments of fatigue. They would probably run 10km each just based on the constant motion.
@@porridgeman 10km? Thats how i know you dont know how motion basketball works. The highest average for players didnt even get to 5km per gamw when including both offense and defense last year. This includes player who live from offball movement like Klay Thompson at 2.6 miles and Stephen curry at 2.55 miles. You really oversetimate how much running will be done in the half court sets by motion offense. Easy transition shots, early offense, and dribble breakdowns cause early buckets (less movement). Plus a 24 second shot clock causes less movement. Plus great defenses adjusting will eventually cause more iso play.
Even though the distance is not beyond a couple of miles, there is a lot of starting, stopping, changing of direction, and jumping to factor in. Additionally, there is the bumping and subtle pushing that requires extra energy expenditures to fight through.
Amazing video. Very well explained... this technique is very simple yet effective and I love it!
Thanks for posting these Videos. This is an Offense that our HS runs (similar) I have always looked for a Fast Paced, Player IQ driven offense. This has been great. This video does break down the benefits greatly. It does hinge on Positionless Basketball (another idea I read about 8 years ago that was frowned upon) At college level, you can recruit to fill your roster. In HS and Youth, you do have to play with what is available (unless you are a IMG academy and recruit players in). This does have its hurdles, but can be worked around with making sure players know their strengths, and improve their weaknesses. As for Playing time - add in an aggressive defense and other teams wear down quickly. This requires a deep bench (9 players is best, 8 works, 7 is hard). But players Love to Play Fast, Get opportunities, and score. But, you need the right players - smart, hardworking, not selfish, teammates who buy in and encourage each other. Overall, this is the future of basketball, but it is nothing new. It is more on practice and development (and recruiting in college) intertwined with Trust of your players to make this successful. Coaches have to LET GO OF THE REINS and let the players play (as long as they Buy In and Play it Right). It is unpredictable and hard to defend. Great video breakdown.
Excellent videos. I went to a lot of Pacers games last season, and there were quite a few times that frustrated me and the only thing I could boil it down to was the lack of non-ball movement. One instance Oladipo had the ball at the 3 line, with Embiid guarding him. Where his teammates were, it wasn't feasible to pass because of Embiid's wingspread. But his the Pacers had cement shoes for 5 seconds until Oladipo had an ill fated drive/shot attempt on the waning seconds of the shot clock.
This video is just about everything that would make me happy to see but wouldn't have come to due to my layman's basketball knowledge.
good stuff, I like the simple rules and feel for the game it promotes. scouting and defending set plays is way easier than defending a set of principles.
Seems like a lot of dribble drive concepts. Love it!
Interesting concept. I like the continual movement and backdoor cuts. I can remember attending a coaching clinic years ago and the late Paul Westhead was there explaining his run and gun offense. I thought this was going to be similar but not. He pledged to us that day that if we switched to his system and won the district championship with it, he would come and speak at our sports banquet, free of charge. It was tempting to try coming from a school with little basketball talent. His system was like carpet bombing a city.
Great value. Just helped me grab onto a new perspective💯💯
Very interesting video. Most times, revolutionary ideas come from the low ranks, where there's no risk and room for experimentation. :)
Thank you I love this. We used to do this in grade school travel ball ❤️🏀
Coach you should definitely check out footage from Jordi Trias. He used to play for FC Barcelona and made a career out of dominating the dunker's spot. He almost literaly couldn't do anything else on the floor. It was a different era and style of play, of course, but it could help players mastering that spot.
This is an excellent video, as usual. This offense is organized and open yet unpredictable and constantly in motion. It does not require offensive players to think too much ("have high basketball IQs"). Instead this offense allows players to focus on playing the game. I suppose a player like Lamar Odem would have flourished in this sort of offense. It's sort of like "organized chaos" (an oxymoron) thereby forcing the defense to move a lot without being able to predict what is likely to happen. In other words, it prevents defenders from making easy reads. It's also fan-friendly; that is, it's fun to watch for people who don't understand the nuances of basketball.
I’m more of football fan, but I could watch this coach breakdown film all day ... subscribed
The principles seem applicable but no NBA is going completely without set plays or pnr in the forseeable future. It works for St. Joes bc getting the ball in the hands of a particular player isnt really important at d3 cause talent distribution is relatively flat but in the league where winning is based off production from stars you have to work to get them the ball in advantageous situations as much as possible.
devinrockz237 You can easily add set plays. For instance The team says on this next possession instead of a back cut you do A B C instead of the normal rule. Being abstract but Hopefully you can see what I’m saying
@@caseyguers7199 You are correct.
Yea this only good for teams.with no standout players. It doesn't force mismatches. Its best to play your offense accordingly to the kind of personnel you have.
Strictly for COLLEGE TEAMS. 😀😀😀
The college teams that don't have the McDonald's All-Americans and have to resort to this.
I think you can fit a lot of different sets into this offense that playmaker spot for instance would be heaven for guys like LeBron, DBook, KD, Kawhi etc. and it gets your athletes in space as well as less focus on the shooters. I believe this offense would work with players willing to buy in.
Coach, great breakdown, as always. This is simply Read and React. An offense I ran for many years with varying success, but with the exact same principles. There are many other layers to it, but it's great to see that a team bought into the first few layers with such success.
It's similar. A big difference is the way Saint Joseph's practices it. They use implicit coaching instead of explicit 5 on 0 coaching most teams use. Also I think Rick Torbett adds too many layers, and over complicates it for players.
@@coachdaniel8163 , I agree. This is much simpler.
@@coachdaniel8163 they have these same drills. However, I only use certain layers myself too
This is basically street ball just done properly I love it thoe
Only thing streetball guys clog lanes
Streetball with rules thats y the lane is open no sitting in the key.
Nope. Street ball is everyone sitting on the outside waiting for their chance at a 1 on 1.
@@reclaimingourthronefounder1571 lol cos nobody can shoot in streetball/pickup ball. Only 1-2 guys at max per team
@@dominicbargardi792 its more like nba dud, what you mentioned
coach Daniel must love the instrumental track of Oh honey by Delegation so much.....I mean, this back ground track is in most of his videos......but that instrumental and the whole song is very dope indeed
Why New? That’s FIBA basketball. It’s too old really.
yep I love read and react concepts. We coached to a state title using this scheme. I would like to add a screening concept off of safety valve action or something just to have a wrinkle. It can be surprising to get hit by a screen after all the cuts as well.
This is really cool ! find more stuff like this D.
Shoutout Maine. My buddy goes to this school. Also, this is basically a circle offense in lacrosse.
I'll be watching more bb because of this & looking for this spacing!!!
Haha, i see what you did here!
I can't decide either can be this be ez defended or not.
Now, after this video shared some of teams will try. Basic moves should have basic counter. And, all we need is wait for stats drops =)
This is a very simple concept. It reminds me of when I was a kid playing ball with the difference being we had the traditional 3out two low but we moved like they do with the 5 out or 4 out 1 low this is an interesting offense and I agree it could be the future I'd like it makes for quick paced games and you wear a team down keeping the pace up that high.
you can create post ups off of cut actions to. If a ball is passed inside you can cut off of that action and receive a handoff in the post, and the the normal movement can continue if a shot is not here.
I think another good point is those fill in 3s where the driver passes back to his old spot are the best type of 3s as the shooter catches the ball while already facing and seeing the rim
I wouldn't base my entire offense around this. Its quite isolation based but I like a lot of the principles and like you said this would be a good way to counter heavy switching defenses
@js59695 Yep. 1 cut through and then an iso...
Really interesting stuff! Thank you
In all my youth basketball season, I never ran plays, everything was basic principles of passing/movement/cutting/shooting. You also need to stress fastbreak, 3-on-1, etc., since having the rebounder bring the ball up creates more opportunities.
This is the best video on simple but beautiful offensive strategy on the internet
Very helpful for my U18 here at FCBC 🏀 in Douala, Cameroon
Its more of a dribble drive motion following the principles of double gap and/or triple gap. Sometimes 5 out , sometimes its 4-1 set.
thank you for this and your first video. i live in Maine and now will go to some saint joseph's game to check this out in person. thank you again. keep up the good work
Of course, that's great you'll enjoy the way the play in person.
Watched all two parts and want to say: congratulations for the analysis.
This is great for high school and college where the players are around the same talent as each other, but in the pros you want the ball in your super stars hands.
You are correct.
I disagree that this can't work in the pros. On Saint Joseph's for example, they had a 24 point per game scorer who was all-state. So this wasn't that balanced of a team, the best player still got the ball the most.
I think this is very good from a team offense performance. My main concern is what if the other team had 1 or 2 locked down perimeter Defenders? I feel like this style of offense could be picked apart if you taught just enough players to defend at the arc.
Thank you for sharing and by the way we ran this offense in high school 20 years ago. Who knew our coaches were pioneers. I thought they were crazy 🤣
very beautiful example of team work (FIBA basketball)..team is like one, no egos, chess game on cort, strong fundamental individual skills..
I'd imagine at the nba level they would also be looking to set off-ball screens amidst all the cutting and use all those extra options (such as slips) to add more dimensions to the offense
Like Andrej Lemanis' Boomers offense.
and handoffs, plus zoom action. that's the type of basketball that's successful right now in the nba, the purest from of basketball, simple fundamental basketball with passing, cutting, movement, then you incorporate simples actions with multiple reads where players can read to exploit defensive mistakes, by this i mean handoff, zoom action, different types of screening, always with spacing and continuity in mind.
all this combined with a team that has no ego and works as one, and you have unstoppable basketball. just watch the celtics this year, the kings this year. the warriors, celtics of the 80s, pop's spurs, kings of the early too 00's, there's been a few teams that have played THE BEAUTIFUL GAME and achieved basketball purity, and it's the most beautiful thing to watch
with my team, we went to the french cup final with that style of playing...no dribble, passing, ball movement and players moving constantly, it was in 1996.
This looks like a very raw simple way to run an offense. Love the off ball movement and how they seem to play on a string. But, I think it is important to remember that at the NBA level players are strong and now-a-days switching on defense is quite common, and it would be impossible to play this offense every time up the court. Unless you are trying to get a record in turnovers from steals. Great breakdown, though. Looks like those kids are having a BLAST playing that free flowing style.
Steve kerr's offense ever since he took over the warriors has featured one of the least amount of ballscreens compared to other elite offenses, so in certain instances it's the closest you'll get to this. However I think at the NBA level you need some type of screening (can be ballscreens, offball screens or dribble handoffs) since screeners are allowed to get away with a lotta physicality (like reverse pivoting into trailing defenders or backpedaling screens), which really helps spring perimeter players free off tough defenders.
Hey Coach Daniel.. I loved this video! Where can I find more of this concept? My travel team does this type of offense. But I still get a lot of kids standing and watching instead of reading and reacting..
Email me at coachdaniel1@yahoo.com
Really good stuff. Brilliant
Read and React by Rick Torbett. There are approximately 20 “layers”. Rotation on the drive and pass n cut are the first two...
This brings tears to my eyes, it's so pretty.......
wow, a team full of shooters like the Warriors(or any nba team actually) would absolutely kill with this offense
a team of elite shooters like the warriors will kill with any offense
Lots of them run it time to time already
@Chris King just nba level skill in shooting, that is enough to make an open 3 would be very effective still
The “play makers” spot is not a more effective position than dumping it in the post. It is simply a different way of attacking. Any shot you take that’s closer to the basket is a more efficient shot simply because of the distance between you and the basket. How effective it will be is based on the skill set of the player. However,pat of the principals are pretty sound and basic. Sound and basic are effective, so it’s a good thing. Nice video.
Head bop @ 7:44 always makes me ctfu, lol
Thanks for an excellent video. I watched a few of Saint Joseph's actual games on CZcams and while its a very intriguing offence you really need to have several very good outside shooters to be successful. Undisciplined teams would also be tempted to settle for too much outside. One question never answered and I assume the answer is yes is could you use this vs a Zone?
Yes you can! Maybe flash to the middle more but yes keep the same principles.
Hi Coach great work and simplified vs. man. ?, is as effective vs. 2-3, 1-3-1 zones? I would think so?
Your thoughts on a purely Triangle offence and the principles it comes with? Obviously calls for more post ups but has similar pass-and-cut principles, as well as basic movement off the ball and around the perimeter
This similar how the Spurs played a few years back to win the NBA title
My sons AAU team is doing this. While it has some great chances for ball movement the 5-Out offense has no one in the post, doesnt allow for offense rebounding (yes they "crash" the boards but rarely if ever come up with an actual rebound) and sticks the players with too much dribbling and passing on their own. I watched our best ball handler today turn the ball over 5 times in ten minutes because they were so easily guarded with no screens set what so ever.
Its awesome...its like fundamental streetball. Free flowing. In a era where almost every player in the nba plays a hybrid position this would be awesome.
Hi Daniel can you do a follow up video about this offense concentrating on practicing and preparation to use this offense
Genius! This one takes to time to master. Its a habit play great
Brilliant! thank you so much!
I used to use similar system, but with 3 out and 2 in as a post threat and a offball screens for a cutters.
Very simple passing system that gives kind of of a rules to movement and cuts.
Worked magically with kids, but had some big issues with adults due to lack of believe in a offball movement to create shots for someone else (selfish... :D ).
There's some female bball teams that uses it fully.
3 out 2 in will always have spacing issues, you can go through the formation in certain moments of the game, but it's hard to be consistent offensively with it. just watch france's national team
@@mcfuckinanotheraccount808 True, but when there's not enough high level shooters it works better that way than spacing and not scoring. Specially when you introduce action on both sides at the same time, defense keeps moving and 5 players won't be focusing on a ball at all time. But yeah, if you have players to space out, than 100%, even you can do a lot of the same thing as in 3 out 2 in but just further away :)
I played this offense back in 4th grade...in the US. Played it through 9th grade.
We only lost 3 games in 6 years.
Great analysts thanks
Oh honey instrumental is 🔥
Bobby knight 1974 with wrinkles to rules the left/ right rotation , the dunker spot add on , and the back fill/ kick back pass to deal with packline/ball line defenses known then as sloughing. Like the restatement of torts 2nd edition
At 1:48 the person who makes the drop to the center isnt the correct person. Again i feel like this is due to the fact that the defense just isnt smart enough to understand positioning. The individual guarding the cutter follows his man through the lane and completely turns his back to the ball this takes him out the play defensievly. Communication and understanding proper positioning LIMITS the offense. this is no 100% answer of course bc if he drops instead of the man who does, this still leaves the guy who DID drop to sit between two (his defender and the previously mentioned cutter) but it still gives you a better oppurtunity to defend. Id love to chop it up with you if you disagree man! i love the breakdown and keep going man. I dont think i know everything and i most definitely could be wrong. Have a blessed day bro
a top tier talent 3 guard lineup with a stretch 4 and an athletic big who can shoot would be a really tough team to deal with in college. Think of like a Duke or UK running this with the type of athletes they have would be a problem.
It's a simple motion play where the whole team is willing to pass and trusting each other and has a good court sense
If Tony Bennet implemented this sort of thing at UVA to compliment his defense they could become a powerhouse. His teams are usually perfect for this sort of system.
thanks for this man
Looks an awful lot like the Read 'n React Offense from Rick Torbett. Good stuff!
Basic pass and cut movement ....the key is to find a cutter who is free to pass the ball to him for a lay up or to find an open shooter.
U convinced me I love it
Good info thanks 👍🏼
Great against man defense. But what adjustments do you use against zone?
This makes SO much sense! I was a 6'5" post player in HS which meant no Division 1 scholarships for me!
How would the offense change if the opponents play a zone defense?
It wouldn't really change. They would simply play off the principles and continue to pass and drive quickly.
Is there any video of them doing this against the zone?
@Coach Daniel, this system looks really good and I love the movement it creates. How do you think it will work against a 2-3 zone which will respond to it more statically than a man-to-man would. Are there variations you could suggest to this when facing a zone?
For the record, St Joes scored more efficiently vs zone than man this last season. I believe they simply played off these principles and hit the high post some.
@@coachdaniel8163 Thanks. I was thinking of getting some of these principles and incorporate a sort of "freeze" cut when a cutter gets to the high post area to threaten the seams of the zone. Its clearer to me now. Keep up the awesome job!
This is a great motion to come and run down the floor immediately, however in a need a bucket situation history has proven that there is no play better than a pick and roll.
Good point...but this 5 out or 4 w/ the dunker spot offense allows the spacing for PnRs...you can easily call for a PnR out of multiple spots in this offense...using these principles will counter any hard hedges, doubling the ball handler or bringing the 3rd defender in support...
But I agree that a PnR in a need to score situation is more reliable bc you want the ball in your best player's hands...
GREAT VID!!
I like this kind of offense because everyone gets the chance to have the ball and score
it's called carouseling... we played it many years ago. It's not new. The examples on the video are great!
Great song in the background.
❤️ the movement
I find find it notable that the driver doesnt challenge the helpside at all. SJ has three counters to it. The pivot, the dunker and the cut and fill, which exchanges the helpside.
This with double gaps because of the no player on the point attacks both gap help and helpside, opening alot of space.
Love the video! just wondering where do you get you film from?
Synergy
It's interesting. I think if the defense just face guarded every player it would basically shut the offense down. The offense works because the defense is rotating, sinking and filling, creating opportunities to drive and kick. The ball always moves faster than the man. But, if you went back to a really old school defensive system where you don't pack the paint and rotate and everyone Ds up their guy, the only way this offense would create openings is if the ball handlers can break down their man individually. That's not always that easy if you aren't playing with the team with more talent to begin with.
Just start off with your best ball handler one one with no help to the paint. Face guarding against a 5 out set is a recipe for disaster unless u have Ron Artest Gary Payton Raja Bell Draymond Green and Dennis Rodman on your team