Chinese Diesel Air Heaters Part 4 - 8 KW Heater Test
Vložit
- čas přidán 15. 02. 2019
- Bench Test and Review of 8 KW Chinese Diesel Air Heater,
There are now a number of Chinese Diesel Air Heaters that are branded as 8 KW, and in many cases charged out at a premium price over the standard 5 KW Diesel Air Heaters. In the cases I have reviewed, I have found these so called 8 KW heaters to be just normal 5 KW Diesel Air Heaters, re branded as 8 KW heaters for a marketing advantage. Their genuine output is closer to 4.5 KW than to 8 KW. My suggestion is you purchase one of these so called 8 KW heaters with your eyes open. If you would be content with a 5 KW heater for your heating area and the price is right, then ok. But if you really want an 8 KW diesel heater for the extra area you need to heat, then you will be disappointed.
DISCLAIMER - The opinions expressed in these videos are my own, and are derived from manufacturers manuals and my own experience and independent testing. You must do your own research to see if my suggestions and comments are right for you and your particular circumstances. J. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
The work you put into this and then so generously shared with us is incredible and highly appreciated!! I'm learning so much about these heaters from your series. Which is super important to me, as my circumstances are always rocky and I live in a cold climate - there may come a day when I rely on one of these for survival in a converted cargo trailer because it's all I can afford.
Hi CP,
Thank you for those kind words.
I hope the series gives you the knowledge to keep warm during a cold winter.
Best wishes. JMcK
I ordered mine from Harry Enfield's store " I Saw You Coming ". 😳🤣. It was $85 US $$$. That was the same price as the 5KW. So no money loss , just a loss in the pride. Was about to ask in the comments about the difference between the two units until I kept watching each video and you answered the question. 👍
Well, this is an extremely interesting, eye opening video. About halfway and at the end you say 'this is not a lab test, just a workshop test', as if it does'nt match up, but I reckon what you're doing here is very scientific indeed, and a true reflection and report on the facts, as tested with numerous accurate meters and using precise mathematics. This is proof, not just opinion, that this heater is not 8kw at all, but simply an ordinary 5kw advertised and sold as an 8kw. Here in England, if anything is falsely advertised like this is, then Trading Standards, a government department, shuts them down, confiscates all their stock and prosecutes the seller. That's the theory, but in practice, these are Chinese and sold from the internet by Ebay online, so what can we do in practice? If the importer is a seller based in your country, the consumer law might be able to exert some authority. It's disgaceful to be ripped off like this, these people are rogue traders. Well, at least you are able to show us the scam here with your excellent video, so thankyou for doing this. Best wishes from Alan, UK.
Hi Alan, thanks for your detailed feedback. It is difficult to know who the scammer is here. The eBay sellers market a whole range of products and I suspect they know little or nothing about these heaters, and the blame lies elsewhere. Cheers, JMcK
Excellent video I love your attention to detail.
Thanks for your feedback Rob
You are a very knowledgeable man. Love this series.
Thank you Raymond. JMcK
This one answered my question on the 8KW. Thanks again.
Your welcome Nora. JMcK
This is so well laid out and immensely helpful. Thank you so much! You're a legend!
Pleased you found the videos helpful T. JMcK
Thank you god for a asome breakdown on these units. Good teacher.
Your welcome David. JMcK
Man, you should have WAY MORE views!!! Great vid, mate. Tom, Stateside
Thanks for the feedback Tom. J
I'm so glad that I came across your excellent video BEFORE purchasing a 8KW unit. Thank you and keep up the great videos.
Hi Rob, thanks for the feedback. J
I purchased a "8kw" just because they sell for cheaper than the 5kw now days
I love the birdsong in the background. You are lucky to have them.
Hi John
You get lots of wild birds hanging around when you live on a few acres. I get a few more than usual as I planted lots of trees and I live beside a river. JMcK
So glad I watched this video. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the feedback KLH
Nice vid and well documented info. Thanks. I bought two of these. One for garage and one for my home as a back up in case regular heaters crapped out in a cold spell. Dont expect the one to heat my home to 66 degrees but would keep my pipes from freezing and keep it liveable. Just comparing it to propane looks like it will be cheaper. Will be trying waste oil in one in garage. either a mix of waste oil and diesel or two tanks. One with diesel to start and shutdown and second tank to run while working.
This is just awesome information, thank you for sharing, from Henrico County Virginia
It's all down to the ecu in side Mine was a 2kw unit put in a 5kw ecu and it work as long as it as a 75mm air out let on checking the sizes of the 2kw and 5kw the ones I've got are the same size when running the 2kw it will pump to a maximum p3.0 on the 5kw set up it goes to p5.5 so on the new heater models they just restricted by the fuel it would seem here in the uk thanks for very good videos. Jeff
The 8kW figure might be the total energy produced, as a ton of the heat goes out the exhaust pipe. Definitely deceptive marketing, but that's likely how they calculated it. Thanks for the informative video!
What an amazing and super informative series!! Thank you, John! Subscribed and bell ringer for notifications. Great job!
Thanks for the positive feedback Randy. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 could you adapt this to a ducted system in a rv?
BrownFrown22
Yes, as long as one outlet can not be closed off, to prevent overheating issues. JMcK
Thanks John
Thank you for all your videos! I know how much time it takes to do so it's very much appreciated. I'm in the market for another diesel heater. I have a Webasto in my Sprinter but going to order a chinese diesel heater for my garage. I think people have caught on with the 5 vs 8 as now they're being sold at the same price here in Canada on eBay.ca . Just about to order that same blue/orange model but with digital control. Cheers
Thanks for the feedback Mr R. JMcK
Unfortunately that is what you get a lot from China! Your knowledge are remarkable. Thank you for the great video.
Your welcome Leo. J
Excellent work/explanation
Thanks AK. JMcK
Thank you VERY much for doing a detailed inspection of this. I have seen a lot marketed as 5-8KW and was interested in the increased output. This is very good information to know, that it's just a number written down, and not actually true.
🥺
Thank you, sir.
Well done mate!
Pleased it was of some benefit. JMcK
Excellent research work. It is important to really know what we are paying for, in order to remove the deceptions from the market
Thanks for the positive feedback Mr R. JMcK
You know your stuff ! Talked me something, thank you
Good work!
Thank you. J
Very good series of videos. One point about ratings is the ambient temperature could affect them. At 20c ambient, you may need to shut down to prevent overheating. at 0c ambient, you would be able to use more fuel without overheating. The higher fuel consumption would give you a higher heat output rating. It is possible that there is an ambient air sensor inside of the control board that limits how much fuel that is it's maximum pulse rate for the incoming air temp.
I've the 8kw model with the red oled remote control and had running it at lower ambient temperature (10-18°C). The remote control shows an internal temperature of 218°C when running it with higher settings and I had it running for over an hour with 7Hz without any problems.
John, just got my hands on the new style of a All In One Diesel heater. The fuel tank is down beside the heater as opposed above it. The tin is painted black, but they also come red. The controller comes with the three wire setup in a round connector but of a different style with a screw retainer. Its rated at 8KW, but feel and am more then sure its just 5KW. I went in to factory settings using the code 1688 and found the pump at high rate set at 5.5 and this number can be increased from there. I found the fan speed set at 5,500 rpms on the high end. This can be upped to 6,000 rpms. Just thought I would share with you and every one else. To be honest it feels like the same amount of heat as a 5KW. Oh, I paid $120.77 USD for it with free shipping from USA Warehouse.
Thank you for the info and feedback. All info that can increase my knowledge is appreciated. JMcK
9:53
all those numbers !!!!!!!!!!!
You're a patient man.
:)
12:50 for the resuls
Well done! I think you will find the 8kw are now being sold at the same price as the 5kw on Amazon. Cheers mate, great video.
👍
brilliant,,,thanks
Supurb Videos John!! Very logically based. Thanks so much for the series youve done and answering so many ?s people have such as myself. I was asking the same ?about the 8kw vs the 5 kw being all the design sizes of components r the same.
Guys watch all his videos they will give u a much clearer understanding of how to have success using one of these heaters. U can use the chinese made ones and have just as good of a end result and reliable unit if u use the assembly /install techniques John explains in his videos. I love how you have meters to justify eveything u r saying and actaul measurements. As the manufacturers do not give us any of these. I am a heating and air /refrigeration tech. And i use this in northorn usa Minnesota cold snowy winters in my work van ford transit. 5kw model does a great job. U could use one in an ice house or a small garage even. I like to run Kerosene in mine every few tanks to help keep clean of carbon. I would ask John does it help to run Kerosene only once in a while or do i need to use it all the time to get results? What about a PEA fuel additive for cleaning the heater like from a auto parts store would that work well? Thanks again Hats off to you Sir!
Wow mate great stuff! Cheers
Laboratory test or a common sense test? I'll take the common sense every time. Thank you.
I bought two really nice "8kw" for less than the "5kw" counterparts. I believe this supports your conclusion, these have to be the same as the 5kw.
I received mine broken in shipping. The company, Bestauto, immediately shipped replacement for part broken in shipping. I got mine off of U.S. Amazon from Bestauto. $114 U.S. EACH.
Thanks again, John, Awesome job.
Thanks for the feedback Gary. JMcK
Great information….thanx
Thank you. JMcK
Great video again, thanks John. The Chinese are now selling some 8kW often for less money than the 5kW and sometimes the 2kW heaters, so your investigation possibly changed the market! The main difference in price these days is the controller, remote and accessories packages. Higher priced models often have better quality casings, glowplugs, fuel pumps, screens, mufflers and piping. I'm ditching my boat's trusty but temperamental Eperspacher D5 as the glowplug draws 30 Amps on startup and re-start and my elderly house batteries require an engine start to cope. My new Chinaspacher unit cost the same as an Eberspacher service kit without the glowplug!
👍
hello from USA....Im bulding a cargo trailer camper and only recently (2 months) have Learned about these diesel heaters...I run propane in a aluminum trailer and get condensation...also carrying propane isnt the easiest...I bought a 8k heater but figured it was just a 5k...I watched your videos before and after purchase...my tow vehicle is now a gas (petrol?) 4runner but I used to tow with a diesel truck...I bought a 5 gallon fuel cell to mount on my trailer...anyways really enjoy the video detail...
Thanks for the feedback Vadimxp, keep warm and dry this northern winter. JMcK
But another great test👌
Thank you. JMcK
thank you
Your welcome. JMcK
Joke is on me. I found your video series shortly after I bought an 8 kW unit. Caveat emptor rides again.Thanks for your series great info
Glad you like them!
Great videos John. I'd love to see some of the data you've collected if you'd be interested to share. Just an FYI- my 5KW heater displays the heat exchanger temps on the controller and it regularly sees 170-180C without any issues. I also read the surface temps with an infrared thermometer and it's similar. I think the shutdown temps are closer to 200C rather than 115C.
Yeah don't know where he pulled that number from haha. 110°c ? 😳. Could be cause hes running it in Australia in a tshirt lmao
Shut down is when it goes to 235°c for over a few seconds btw
@@andrewbartleman9169 Great info....thanks
The Chinese probably take into account the 2,5 kW power from the exaust heat. Nice video.
The waste heat exiting through the Exhaust would be no more than 20-25 % of the calorific vale of the Fuel burnt..
Thank you for the valuable measurements.
The 5 KW can only get 4 KW Input (Diesel fuel) and produce about 3,5 KW Output.
There are no 8 KW Units.
I do not argue with the technique and quality is ok the Chinese use but
more than 20% less power is a problem for the user to calculate.
Right now you can buy 5 KW (4 KW=Real) Units for about 120 Euros.
120 Euro for a 4 KW Heater is a peak of everything i have seen and the best value for the money.
Why do the Chinese do not use real measurement ?
They will sell more Units if they are more honest.
That is a lack of Chinese Culture I never understand.
Thanks for the feedback Dieter. JMcK
Thanks John I WATCHED ALL UR VIDS LAST YEAR. I HAVE A HEATER IN MINNESOTA USA WHICH BORDERS CANADA SO IT GETS COLD HERE. I RUN IT ALL THE TIME PROB 6 DAYS A WEEK IN MY SERVICE VAN IN WINTER. LAST YEAR MY 1ST HEATER GOT PLUGGED UP(CARBON) SO I JUST REPLACED THE UNIT. FIGURED EASIER THAN CHANGING OUT THE HEAT EXCHANGER. CAUSE IT WAS MIDDLE OF WINTER AND MY HIGH ROOF TRANSIT WILL NOT FIT IN A GARAGE.
SO I DID IT IN THE COLD.
ANYWAYS JUST THOUGHT ID STOP BACK AND SEE IF THE 8KW UNITS HAD EVER CHANGED TO ACTUALLY B 8KW UNITS. MINE IS A 5KW. IM HOPING TO GET THRU THIS NEXT WINTER WITH THIS 2ND UNIT. I TRY TO RUN KEROSENE SO NOT TO CARBON UP. BUT I RUN DIESEL OFTEN CAUSE NOT ALL GAS STATIONS HAVE THE KEROSENE.
ANYWAYS I RECOMMEMD PEOPLE ON FACE BOOK OR ANYWHERE TO WATCH YOUR VIDEOS AS YOU HAVE THE MOST COMPLETE AND 110% ACCURATE INFORMATION!! VERY WELL DONE MY FRIEND!! LOVE THE ENGINEERING WAY YOU GO ABOUT SHOWING EVERYTHING!! I CANNOT IMAGINE HOW MANY PEOPLE YOU HAVE HELPED WITH THE VIDEOS YOU HAVE PUT OUT.
THANKS AGAIN AND BEST REGARDS.. NATE Hess. Minnesota 🇺🇸.
Hi Nate,
Thanks for the nice feedback.
To my knowledge, the 8Kw are still just really 5Kw heaters.
These Chinese copy heaters are so affordable, that it could actually be cheaper to swap one out for a new one rather than pay labour costs for a professional to service.
But, they really are quite simple to clean out the carbon if you have a bit of handyman hands on knowledge.
Regards. JMcK
Good video, well done. I just bought a 8kW heater...if I had look at your video I would have bought a 5kW and save money. Now with your number it looks like this heater only produce 3.5 kW. If we look at your heat calculation with the air temperature you have over 5 KW but the fuel consumption is 4,5 kW. We have to go with the fuel consumption, this is more precise. 43,000 kJ/kg for diesel. So about 11,9 kWh/kg. Now we are burning about 0,38 l/h * 0,83kg/l this is about 4kW. But this is at 100% efficiency. Say it runs at about 80% at best then you are down to 3,5 kW. Far from the advertise 8kW....Thank-you for your test, good job.
Hi Gaetan, thanks for the feedback and the info. Not all quite simple maths though.
Of interest, the 2 kw unit uses the same pump and the controller is the same and puts out the same pulse rate. You can run the heaters side by side, running the exact same pulse rates, and same fuel burn. Then it comes back to heat exchanger size. The bigger heat exchanger puts out more heated air at the same settings. JMcK
I agree with what you are saying about deceptive advertising. I have just got a 2kw unit and found if you do a search for 2kw most of what comes up is a 5kw. The size is a dead give away and the vent size being 75mm instead if 60mm used on the 2kw. By this lodgic one would expect an 8kw unit to have about a 90mm vent size and these so called 2kw units are also being sold at a premium price also. Buyer beware.
Hi Phil, thanks for the feedback. Yes there is a lot of deceptive advertising.
However, if you really want a 2KW unit for its smaller size. (I look for dimensions and weight. 2KW is about 2.7 kg. I have purchased a genuine 2 KW (size restrictions) of this seller.
www.ebay.com.au/itm/de-2KW-12V-Diesel-Air-Heater-Tank-Knob-Switch-For-Truck-Boat-Trailer-ee/333074609655?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Cheers, JMcK
Hi. Nice videos, thanks very much for youer efforts.
I'm just about to buy one, and it's an issue wrt getting 5kW or 8kW, and if it's actually any difference.
I plan to test mine.
In terms of the test methodology, I suggest you measure things in terms of MASS rather than VOLUME, because the air expands, and thus density changes.
Also, you'll get some differences with relative humidity, and barometric pressure.
So I'd suggest measuring the air flow VOLUME at intake, and then converting THAT to a mass flow rate.
You can easily obtain the Density of the air at those conditions: temperature, pressure, humidity.
And you also can look up the Specific Heat Capacity (at fixed pressure "Cp").
And then you measure the Temperature at your reference heat output: I supect the units are rated right at the unit's output, and NOT at the end of the flexible ducting on them.
Then it's:
Volume Air Flow Rate (m/h) x Intake Cross Section (m^2) x Density (kg/m^3) x Specific Heat Capacity (J/kg-C) x Temp Diff (C) = Heat Output (J/h)
Convert to Watts by 3,600 J/h = 1 Watt
There's some error by assuming Cp is constant, but it's small over this temperature/pressure range.
And there's some error if you are in a humid environment: but you can do a good relative comparison between units, and for different conditions.
If you really want an accurate calc, then you need to delve a bit into psychometrics: thermal properties and behaviour of air.
And you can get an overall value for EFFICIENCY, by comparing Diesel Fuel Burned multiplied by its theoretical Lower Heating Value.
For diesel that's about 35 MJ/litre.
I haven't got my own unit yet, but based on the Webasto claimed fuel rates, I get around 84% efficiency for them, using their Heat Output Values.
Dunno if that's accurate, but that seemed to be best data set I found on line.
Their data:
1.5 kW @ 0.18 l/h
3.5 kW @ 0.43 l/h
4 kW @ 0.49 l/h
5kW @ 0.61 l/h
5.5 kW @ 0.67 l/h
If you graph this data, it's a straight line.
With a slope of 0.1221 l/h per kW
And as I said, if you assume their Heat Outputs are accurate, it gives you an 84% Efficiency.
I assume that's on the high side.
But I'm sure the Chinese ones are worse.
To get a more accuarate Theoretical Efficiency, you could compare the measured Heat Output as described above.
And compare it to Theoretical Heat Output from optimum fuel use:
Fuel Pump Output (l/h) x Lower Heating Value (35 MJ/litre) = Theoretical Heat Output (J/h) ....convert to Watts
Theoretical Efficiency Rate = Actual Heat Output/Theoretical Heat Output
Hi Warthog,
Thanks for your detailed comments. At this stage I will not be doing another test on this matter.
But I would be most interested in your results and figures.
When I tested these heaters some years ago they were exactly the same.
Of interest. Both these heaters are exact copies of the German Eberspacher D4 Diesel Parking Heater. Even the gaskets are interchangeable.
The Germans are conservative and they rate their heater at 4Kw.. JMcK
so few reply,, thanks for that.
If you do test one with petrol (US gasoline), you do have a few of them, let me know.
I am sure someone will do it on there RV, and no one on youtube will ever know.
you have the equipment and know-how and interest,, just one more video ..
i am thinking to do someday , bench test it first,,, i don't make videos for youtube,,
just watch them,, all of yours..
hamish of Tujunga, CA USA … God bless
much need information/thanks much
I imagine they would say that it is an 8kw burner of which 5kw is usefully harnessed for space heating hot air. I may look at a bit of heat recovery from the exhaust from mine. Rightly or wrongly they are astonishing vfm especially when compared with the units they are copied from! £100 is amazing.
Hi Robin, most of these heaters are excellent little heaters, and the price is so cheap they have opened up a huge DIY market. As you state, you can buy one of these German copy heaters for under $200, rather than a couple of thousand dollars. JMcK
Yeah I fell for it also. I didn't invite Anthony about these heaters a week ago. I just needed one to hear my 2029 2500 sprinter extended roof 170.the van is big so I wanted a big heater especially since I didn't finlnish insulating it. I order iloff ebay and noticed that it only went up to 5 after I installed it. So I'm getting to be nice to this guy that abbiously didn't speak English well. I keep telling him to send me a 8kw unit I don't want a refund. Well he knew he didn't have one it would have just been a different controler. Then I stumbled upon the videos with the 1688 code and I was happy that I had a 8kw heater but noticed it's basically the same thing as the 5 settingsb but what has my hopes still up is the fact that we can mess with the sound and find the right mixture for a better hoter burn without overheating. So I'm trying different settings to try to get it to burn hot but at a lower setting so it's not loud and it could run all night because in the east coast and mid America is really cold at night. One thing I read on line by a smart guy like this John and that seemed to know a lot also he days the opposite of what John mc47 said about the air intake. He blocked like less than 5 percent of the whole and the unit actually ran hotter air. I tried it also once the bars were full and the 2 red ones disappeared I obstructed the intake hole (the round one on the end of the unit not the one with the pipe) and the red lines came back. Don't one of it was just the unit heating up or the flame. The guy smarter than I seemed to think it was the flame.
Hi John, thanks for sharing your knowledge. Any comment on the smaller 2kw vs larger 5kw units in terms of noise and current draw? Thanks.
Hi Blitz,
I will do a comparison video next month when I return from sailing.
If you have a small space, buy the smaller heater.
Otherwise, there are two schools of thought here.
1. Have a small heater and run it on high setting to lessen carbon buildup.
2. Haver a heater bigger than you need and run it slower.
In most cases, but not all, I go with number 2. There is far less noise and wear running the heater on a lower setting. To lessen carbon build up, just giver the heater a full power run for a minute or so before shutdown. Or if using regularly, a boost run for a couple of minutes every week or so.
Cheers, JMcK
so the cost to run at say 3kw output is about 70c/hour (333ml/hr) as compared to reverse cycle aircon running a 1300w input putting out 3kw of heat would be approx 27c per hour (our off peak is 19c/kwh) peak is double that 3pm to 9pm.
Wait until they do their normal thing and just keep ramping the numbers up.
"BUY THIS 5MW DIESEL HEATER TODAY!" 🤣
Excellent testing, John have one supposed to be 8kw heaters ,being Chinese never thought it was more than 5 kw, like all China exports goods electric I’ve always found them to be exaggerated, guessing Chinese volt testing must be different from everyone else’s ie 100v would be advised as 1000 Chinese volts l o l 🙊
Thanks for your feedback John. J
I've only watched 4 of your videos about these diesel air heaters yet, but now I know more about these heaters as from the manual and what I found with google. Thanks!
You mentioned a temperature of 150°C max at the internal sensor. I've a 8kw model with the red oled remote and the remote shows a temperature of 220°C (+1,-3°C) at higher settings. I haven't measured the temperature with a other device to check if the shown temperature is right. If it is, is it possible that there is something wrong with my heater? I have an ambient temperature of 10-18°C . The plastic housing isn't getting hot.
Hi Mr Underwood,
I have yet to see a genuine 8 kw Chinese heater. The ones I have seen are 5 kw falsly branded as 8kw.
The temperature depends on where and how you take the readings. If the case is not getting abnormally hot, I don't think you have an issue with your heater.
Regards, JMcK
Has anyone found a copy of the actual 8 and 9 KW heaters from Eberspacher and Planar?
John what is the inlet and exit duct Internal Diameter?
Here in the US heaters are rated at the BTU or KW heat content they consume per hour. So here in the US the 8KW rating would be the norm.
Hi John, Your reviews are great and comprehensive . I'm really enjoying them. I'm going to be spending winter in my Mitsubishi Fuso 9 meter bus so am going to be buying one of these Chinese diesel heaters. I'm hoping you can help me with a few things. The area to heat is 40 cubic meters. What size KW do I need and can you help me with a particular brand name or seller ? I believe there are good and also bad Chinese units ?? Much appreciated. Regards, Derick
Hi Derick,
A bit hard to give you definite information here as I do not know what area or climate you are travelling in your bus, nor do I know what insulation you have in the bus or over your windows.
However there are really only two Chinese heaters you could buy, a 2 kw and a 5 kw, there is no real 8 kw heater.
I suggest you buy a standard 5 kw heater. They put out plenty of heat and should be suitable for your bus.
I can not recommend a supplier as they come and go so quickly. Not one of the suppliers I bought heaters from last year sell heaters this year. I suggest you chose an online supplier who has a warehouse in your country of origin and has a good reputation on returns. They will advertise "ships from Australia" or "local UK stocks"
Like everything you buy, you will occasionally get a dud, but it is vary rare with these heaters. I always suggest you bench test the heater as soon as received, and not leave it stored for some future instillation. If there is an issue contact the seller straight away for a replacement.
Regards JMcK
good man John nice info best to just pay for a 5kw machine eh...the one im thinking of buying is a Vevor 8kw but i may go for the 5 just incase
Hi Joe, if the price is about the same, pick a heater with the controller you want, and from a supplier with good feedback. Keep warm this winter. JMcK
Hi John i have ordered a heater from Vevor should be here in about 16th december fingers crossed its not damaged in transit. hope it works as advertised but your youtube channel is a great place for help about all things chinese heaters thanks for the advice
👍
on the 8 kw unit i got it had a setting in the controller to set it for 5 kw or 8 kw. there was a noticeable difference in heat output coming out of the unit i did not ck the fuel rate difference in fuel rate or fan speed . but different control board than my 5 kw unit
Hi marte,
My 8 KW heater is a stock standard 5 KW heater, just branded different. But this video was made some time ago and perhaps there are changes with the new 8Kw heaters.
The max fuel setting on my "8Kw" heater was 5.5 Hz, exactly the same as a 5 Kw heater.
Yes, you could probably get 6Kw from this heater by going into the settings and upping the fuel rate to 7Hz or so, but I doubt it.
My testing shows increasing the fuel burn to just 6 Hz results in an overheat condition on this size heater and the heater shuts down. There is no way you can get 8 Kw out of this heater without increasing the fuel rate and the heat exchanger size.
Of interest, Eberspacher rate their original heater at just 4Kw (D4) These Chinese 5 Kw heaters are an EXACT copy of the D4 heater. My testing shows it is even borderline rating the Chinese copy heaters at 5 Kw. (Yes, the Germans are conservative, and truthful. Well, perhaps there is one notable exception)
It is pure deception to have a heater that is an exact copy of the original Eberspacher 4Kw heater and market it as an 8 Kw heater.
Cheers. JMcK
Not a laboratory test? That was the funniest thing I've heard all week.
Hi john you have the same heater as me , could you please help on the control panel how to set it up , to come on and of and set time thank you
It is common in the furnace world to advertise total BTUH output (heated air plus exhaust). My 100,000 BTUH Lennox is 80% efficient and outputs 80,000 BTUH.
The exhaust from the Chinese heater is pretty hot so imagine that it may only be about 65 -70% or so efficient. 5,000 watts divided by 0.65 is 7,700 watts so maybe they are accurate but just not mentioning the low efficiency. It would be interesting if you would run the same experiment on the intake-exhaust airflow and temperature differential to see if it produces the missing 3 kw.
Hi Dennis, the point I am making is these, so called, 8 kw heaters are EXACTLY the same as a standard 5 kw heater. There is absolutely no difference between the two heaters. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Hello again. You mentioned that your controller pulses at a max of 5 per/second. Using a frequency counter, my t-stat can pulse almost 8 per second ( Non LCD). Any chance that the difference is in the controller? At that rate, the heater would use 0.63 liters per hour. At 10.8 kw per liter (depending on the Internet source), the most heat that the unit can produce with 8 pulses per second is 6.8kw. At 70% efficiency that is 4.8 kw output. You are correct. It is a bit of a lie.
On the other hand, this heater works wonderfully in my AstroVan.
Thanks for the CZcams's.
Dennis Rech . Thanks for the info Dennis. JMcK
Hi John, I just watched this video on the 8kw diesel heater, I get what you are saying but if you compare the heat exchangers of both the 5kw and the 8kw there are more fins on the 8kw heat exchanger which gives more surface area which should theoretically give out more heat. Just an observation mate :-)
Hi David,
Thanks for the feedback, It is a long time since I did the 8kw video so I can't remember about the fins on that particular heater, but I will go and have a look at the fins in a current (8KW) heater. The castings come from a number of factories, and are different between "brands" regardless of heater size.
I was careful to take measurements of heat output, air volumes, fuel usage, and overall heat exchanger size etc. But I did not actually measure the fin surface area. I will see if I can do this now.
However I feel confident with my figures and also confident in my belief you need a much bigger heater to gain a heat output of over 50% above the standard 5KW heater.
Regards. JMcK
Thanks for the reply John, oh believe me I have no doubts in your tests, very well executed and very interesting, I managed to fit my heater in the garage of my motorhome and I have connected it to the original ducting, I had to do some modifications due to the difference in size of the ducting (75mm down to 65mm) I did have to put a small vent in the garage floor and used some spare ducting I had left over to get more fresh air into the machine as it is the all in one type of heater, as I had it overheat a couple of times using the Hz setting instead of temperature control, so I have just left it on the temperature setting and not tried it again on the Hz setting. I love the videos you do, have referenced them a few times during my install. Thank you.
David Evans
👍
I have 5kW version. In the "blue" or "new" controller I can increase the max. pump frequency from original 5,5 Hz up to 8,0 Hz. Also oryginal fan speed from 4500 rpm to 5000 rpm. In effect theoretically the max power is around 7kW. However the combustion chamber is overheating and the pump slows down to 1,6 Hz for a couple of seconds. My pump is 0,022 ml\stroke. So it is definitely not 8kW, but something between 6-7kW.
Thanks for the input Pawel. JMcK
@@johnmck1147
🙂
I appreciate all the hard work! I was wondering if you've noticed, or found, a diesel heater that uses less electricity to power. I run my camp off a 200$ lithium power pack. 240 watt hours in the bank. The injector, control board, and fan can use up to 100 watts on startup and shutdown, leaving me without lights after a few hours.
Any ideas?
Get a bigger power pack if you need to run longer.
just bought a vevor branded 5kw after buying the "8kw" of the same brand and from taking it apart what I notice before using it is the casting for the main burn ?chamber? is not as good as the 8kw, this may explain the difference in some cases(I guess it might be like cpu manufacturing where it's spec'd by quality with some exceptions)... to clarify, it's the outer fins that are not so nice looking and show some cracking, the inside of the chamber shows no cracking or malformation so I'm gonna give it a chance and amazon "exchange" it if it cracks or similar
can you do a video on that controler your useing
Hi Norm. Sorry, but probably not. I thought I had finished the series, but may do another one or two to cover some of the most asked questions. If you have a particular question I will try and answer you. JMcK
What happens when the unit overheats? Can it get damaged? Does it matter if u always run it on high output or low output (hz)? Does it need cleaning? Thanks for great videos!
Hi there, If it overheats, the ECU goes into a shutdown mode to prevent any damage from excessive heat. You will damage the unit if you just switch it off manually and bypass the controlled cool down process.
They run very well on low output or high output in cooler weather. On full boost not so well for long periods as they can be noisy, draw amps and use diesel.
With proper instillation, short intake and exhaust runs without back pressure and restrictions, and with correct fuel management so there is no smoking and hence low soot deposits in the burner, these heaters are very low maintenance.
With poor instillation and smoking they will need regular soot removal from the burn chamber. J.
I have just bought a couple of 5kw Chinese Heaters.
In the Instructionbookwith joined up words, causethe Chinese Authors aren£t sure whereto breakup the words, on page 5 it lists the weight, dimensions and fuel consumption for three models as follows -
2Kw Fuel Consumption Zl/hH : 0.12 - 0.24 Weight : ZKGH : 3.6 Dimensions ZmmH : 320 x 125 x 157
5Kw Fuel Consumption Zl/hH : 0.18 - 0.48 Weight : ZKGH : 5.6 Dimensions ZmmH : 380 x 145 x 177
8Kw Fuel Consumption Zl/hH : 0.21 - 0.54 Weight : ZKGH : 5.2 Dimensions ZmmH : 380 x 145 x 177
That is all straight out of the manual on Page 5 as it appears.
So the 8Kw unit is exactly the same size as the 5Kw unit, only by weight, lighter by 400g !!!
The 2Kw unit is physically smaller as you've shown on your workbench.
If we take the manuals figures of 2Kw heater on max consumes 0.24 l/h, and the 5Kw consumes 0.48 l/h then the difference is 0.24 l/h to produce the the difference between a 2Kw model, and the 5Kw model, 3Kw heat difference. But since we see on the spec of the 2Kw model, 0.24 is needed to produce a full 2Kw output, the math does not add up.
The fuel use difference between the 5Kw and 8Kw models for an additional 2Kw output on the 5kw model would need to be 0.48 + 0.24 = 0.72 l/h for a 7Kw output. As it is the 8Kw model only consumes max fuel of 0.54 which is way short of 8Kw output.
So the short answer is an 8Kw version by China probably doesn't exist.
with the 5Kw unit consuming twice the fuel of the 2Kw unit, the 5Kw unit is more likely to be closer to 4Kw.
The 8Kw Unicorn unit, if you can find one, would probably be a touch over 5Kw output.
Like you illustrated, the physical form factor of the Chinese 5Kw unit is that of the Eberspacher D4, which was rated at 4Kw. This seems to add up from the fuel consumption figures as well.
Still can't grumble $120 bucks is way better than $700 Eberspacher bucks. That's why I bought two and will probably buy more.
Hi Alex, thanks for the detailed comments. JMcK
Hey John, got one last question for ya. Do you recommend priming the unit before actually starting it up, for the first time? I see that this function exists, and definitely want to avoid an “E- code”. I don’t plan on the fuel line to be very long, maybe 1-2 feet from the fuel tank to the heater. Any advice you got is greatly appreciated. Happy Holidays to you
Hi Guys, I recommend you prime the fuel line to the fuel pump before first use to protect the pump from running dry. Suggest you have a quick look on this matter in pump video and motorhome video. Cheers JMcK
I just got a "8kw" all in one heater, but if I go after what the display says, it's heating up to 245°C on the outside of the casting.. And they have increased the Hz to 8.0 (Ofcourse I do not run at 8.0) I run it as a 5Kw heater.. But it runs hot.
Yes, to overcome the false advertising, some suppliers are upping the Hz rate, but they often now come with overheat issues. JMcK
Hello there.(December 7, 2019) As far as recovering more heat from the unit....can you mount the exhaust tube inside of a larger tube and fan air through it in reverse direction of exhaust flow..... Second: can you increase the unit performance by mounting old hair fan on the intake tube and running it on low or medium?
Hi Jiri, yes you could use the exhaust heat to extract more heat energy. It could be quite dangerous to do as you suggest as any exhaust leak puts CO onto the accommodation area. Having said that, that is exactly how my little aeroplane is heated.
A better method may be to wrap a copper pipe around the exhaust to make hot water.
I would not mount an extra fan on the intake side. The ECU matches the fan speed of the heater with the fuel dosing rate to get an optimum heat increase from the heat exchanger. JMcK
I'm interested to know the temperatures around the base of these. If mounting on say a wooden van floor, how much insulation must be used to prevent fire?
Hi Ein, The hot side of the heater casing will get up to around 50 deg C. The exhaust itself up to around 200 deg C
The heater can be generally mounted direct to the floor. You cut an oval hole about the size of the silicone gasket and then mount the heater with the square metal mounting bracket that comes with the heater. You can buy on line, or make it yourself, the square metal bracket with a metal circular sleeve to go through the floor. Without the sleeve on the bracket you should consider lagging the exhaust where it goes through the floor. JMcK
I am running a 2KW heater mounted in the same orientation that they are on your bench (except 180 opposite with the glow plug at the top of the chamber). It is sitting flat on it's side. However at -30C, it keeps the temp at +2C in my van. If I wanted to swap the the 5KW into the same spot, would the exhaust and air inlets line up the same height above the side. I note that the %KW is longer, but I suspect it is also wider, and therefore I would not be able to swap them out?
Hi MP, yes the 5 kw heater is wider than the 2KW heater, so you would need some modifications. JMcK
@@johnmck1147
Thanks a lot for the reply John. I've watched every one of your demonstrations, and looked longingly at the woodwork in the cabin of your boat. One thing I did not do, so I will watch them all again, is make notes that may relate to my installation because you touched on may points that I need to take action on. In the 2 years since I installed mine, I've probably made every mistake that you touch upon (especially with respect to the intake and exhaust lines). So one of the first things I did after watching your channel, was order a couple of new doser pumps. My latest problem seems to point to no fuel to heater. In Canada all our fuel is LSD, and I need to add lubricity agent to the fuel tank of my old Delica van, but have not added it to the fuel for the heater. Also the tank is a long way back, and I've made the mistake of letting the doser pump prime the lines on many occasions. Next when the temperatures outside improve from the -30C that they currently are, I'm going to crawl around and perhaps make some more modifications. For example, it would appear my pump although oriented correctly, is the opposite of your recommendation and I need to move it from right next to the heater and closer to the fuel tank. I pity the 'responsible' Chinese sellers of these items. There are so many variables to a successful installation, I'd suspect most the of the DIY installs go wrong the first time. BTW, until I discovered your videos, about the best written troubleshooting guide I had found that you can print is from a retired engineer by the name of Roy: www.letonkinoisvarnish.co.uk/eberspacher_intro_1.html
Mountain Parameters
Hi MP, thanks for the positive comments, the detailed feedback and the info. JMcK
For what it's worth, here in the US the 5kw and 8kw are basically the same price. Price is more based o which seller or style you prefer vs the kw output.
👍
When looking for parts for the chinese 5kw or quassi 8kw heater are we looking at the espar D4 or D4 Airtronic ? The atomizer screens look different. Does anybody know the proper espar part #
Thanks in advance.
hi did you notes the strate though air filter
Hi Dan, not sure what you mean here? JMcK
great video so if the 8ks heater is really only 5kw is the 5kw rating less than 5kw or is it that they want to market the 8kw at a higher price to maximize their profits???
Hi there, in my mind it is marketing. In realistic terms the 5 kw heater actually puts out around 4.8 kw. Either way, the 5 kw heater and the so called 8 kw heater are EXACTLY the same heaters. JMcK
Thanks, I've never trusted product advertisements and I'm starting to wonder if "you get what you pay for" still applies. I'm going to need to outfit my car soon if housing prices increase, that's another story. I live in Canada where the Planar brand is sold and the price is upwards of $1000. They warn against cheap imported heaters so wondering if theirs is any better. Can I trust specs.
Hi KC,
I have had excellent success with these cheap Chinese heaters, and in the last five years I only had an issue with one. (Replaced). Why pay $1,000 for a “brand” heater when you can get the same for $100. It is very rare to get a “bad” heater, but if you buy from a local supplier, in my experience, they will replace the heater.
If you found your supplier would not replace a bad heater, you are still $900 in front and have a box of spare parts. Cheers. JMcK
There has been some correction in the market. The 8 kw sell for about the same price as the 5 kw. And many are now advertised as 5-8 kw.
Perhaps they got called out. Good luck suing a chinese company, but many have local offices.
8 KW gross (including exhaust)?
Hi great vids do you know if there is any difference between 12v and 24v models ? As I have looked at so called 24v but they seem to do 12v as well but have been set at 24v . Also the price seems a bit more .
Hi John, the actual heaters are the same. The ECU is 24V, the dosing pump is 24V, the fan is 24V, and the glow plug is 24V. JMcK
I was wondering about this too.i have 12, 24, and 120 volt choices in my off-grid setup. Thou where I would need this is only close to 12 volt and 24 volt is buildable...
Was wondering how one unit could do either or, and was wondering if there is a performance difference between the 2 voltage choices.
I was under the impression that not all pumps were .02 they sell 16ml pumps for the 2kw heaters and 22ml for the 5/8kw heaters
Hi PF,
When I did these tests some 5 years ago, all the pumps delivered .02ml or .022mm per pulse.
It makes sense to reduce the the pump volume on the new 2kw heaters. JMcK
Do these units have to be mounted leveled, like you test them, or can they be mounted vertically...suction of air on the bottom, exhaust of heated air on top and exhaust of consumed fuel on the side as a horizontal tube???
Hi Jiri, b
Basically the heaters must be mounted level with the exhaust facing downwards. However they can be mounted sideways with the exhaust facing out sideways, provided is is the side with the glow plug on top.
The heaters will run in a vertically - for a while, just as your motor car can run without any engine oil. - for a while. The design of the fuel input system only supports the correct mounting positions listed above. JMcK
Thankyou so much for these informative videos. I have learnt so much from watching. In fact, I wouldn't have had an idea without them, and would probably have made many mistakes through my ignorance. I installed a 5kW heater in my caravan and I was so impressed I decided to buy an 8kW to heat my loungeroom - big mistake: I didn't watch this episode first. Anyway, I placed it under the floorboards and spend much energy and money setting up exhaust system and fuel line to exterior reservoir, ducting, 240-12 V transformer, etc. The end result was disappointing as it didn't warm the room enough. After watching this episode of your videos I realised why - it wasn't really an 8kW heater. I am now thinking of removing this heater unit and putting it in my garage, then finding a genuine 8kw unit to put in its place. I have lost faith that there really are any Chinese 8kW heaters, though plenty are advertised. Have you found any, or could you suggest where I can buy a relatively cheap 8kW heater. I guess I cannot use any of the portable ones (if they are in fact 8kW), unless maybe if I remove the actual heater unit from the chassis. Is this even possible without drama? Can you advise me please, John?
Hi Greg,
These Chinese heaters are a pretty exact copy of the German Eberspacher D4 heater. The gaskets, glow plugs, screens etc are all interchangeable. The Germans are conservative and list their heater as a 4 Kw heater. Do you think you can double the output of the heater you copied? Yes you can get a little bit more heat by increasing the fuel burn, but only a little before the heater goes into overheat mode. I know of no real 8kw Chinese heaters at this time. To increase the output you must increase the heater size.
Why not just run two cheap heaters together?
Cheers. JMcK
do you know how to get more fan speed out of a webasto?,after i got mine rebuilt and installed the timer unit,it seems like the fan doesn have the speed it used to anymore and the boat outlets are very weak very little air comes out the vents i need more like it was before
Sorry Diego, I have very little experience with Webasto brand heaters and controllers. Have you talked to the person who did the rebuild? JMcK
You would have to run two of them together, double the fuel , and throttle them back to 4kw each.
Hi John. Great set of videos. I have the 8kw heater with the full digital screen. When it starts up it shuts down after about 20 seconds any idea what's going on? Cheers
Hi Dave,
I really need more info.
Are you getting any error message on the screen?
Two common causes for your symptoms are no fuel, or low current.
Are you getting fuel to the heater? Can you hear the pump ticking?
Is your battery charged? Is there 12V at the heater?
These heaters draw up to 10 amps to start and a flat or old battery or poor wiring can not deliver 10 amps to the heater. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Hi John, you where 100% correct it was the power supply. I swapped it out for a 240v ac/dc 12v 30 amp unit and it works like a charm.. Thank you for your help. Cheers.
Dave Maher
👍
I have to mount this outside I wonder is it ok to put rockwool over it so the heat doesn't go to waste
Yes Esa, you could that. JMcK
So is there particular brand you would by I the Chinese cheap ones?
Hi Ian
Suggest you buy from a supplier that has a warehouse in your home country, and has good ratings. Buying a Chinese heater, you really will not know the original manufacturer. JMcK
Good day John, can u tell me the Differences how to tell apart the 2kw to the 8/5Kw heater, I Purchased the eight but I’m starting to doubt to think maybe I was sent the smaller one, can u please give me the size Difference for the 2 Vs 8 kw (in inches) in the width and in length? & Would that be the best way to tell them apart? Tnx so much
Did you try to watch this video at all? he give the measurement of different heaters.
Excellent detail. Is injection pressure important or does the design of the atomizer mean pressure is not critical?
Hi JB,
Yes, in my opinion injection pressure is important. The diesel has to be forced through the screen to be atomised so as to burn. When new, the screen is clean and the diesel atomisers easily, but as carbon and/or diesel gel accumulates, atomisation becomes more difficult without pressure.
Some heaters now come with soft cheap plastic fuel hose, rather than the hard nylon fuel hose, which should be used on the delivery side of the pump. The plastic hose will initially work, but as the heater ages greater than normal carbon will accumulate on the screens due to lower pressure caused by pressure absorption of the fuel pulse by the plastic.
Cheers. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Many thanks for your quick reply, yes thats very helpful.:)
jbsmith1
👍. I would be interested to know how your pump experiment goes. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thanks. Yes I didn't want to bore you with the details so made a new post, but yes its looking promising. I'll let you know how it goes, I think I'm going to have to do quite a bit of testing and inspecting the burner for sooting before I'm confident of going public.:) If all goes well I will send you a prototype to test out.:)
jbsmith1
👍
Hi John, thank you for your hard work investigating the heater. Can you please teach me how you work out that 1L of diesel gives 110kW energy at 13:20? kW is power unit while energy density of diesel should be in Joule/L. From internet I found the energy density of diesel to be between 32 to 40 megajoule per litre. kW is thousand of Joule/sec.
If you burnt 1L over 1 hour, then simply divide 40MJ by 3600 to get 110,000 watts
@@propheteyebert7063 Thank you. I missed the 1hr bit without realizing that it is implied.
Will these heaters work while the vehicle is in motion? For instance, while operating a tractor or maybe a side by side while pushing snow.
Well I have a promaster service van I use it every day. Wishing you well with yours
Yes. I heat my enclosed snowmobile trailer as I drive up to the pass. Just have the exhaust pipe pointing back. It actually runs better than air forced propane, it will blow out at high speeds.
Can you tell me if there is any difference in fuel flow or fan settings from a 5 or 8kw by factory?
Not when I made this video.
Lately some manufactures have increased the fuel flow to increase the output, but this has caused some overheat issues.
Remember these are exact copies of the German Eberspacher heater D4. The Germans rate their heater as a 4 Kw heater. JMcK
The calorific value you have used for the diesel is for a Kg not a litre. You need to multiply the Ltrs used by the density which is about 0,86 and gives and even worse result. I recon my 5 to 8 Kw/h heater can only give 3.8Kw/h and some of the goes out the exhaust. It works well but its a bit of a con
Hi Craig, these heaters are an exact copy of the German Eberspacher D4 heater. The Germans class this heater as 4Kw output. But 5 Kw claim is reasonable from the Chinese. JMcK