Chinese Diesel Air Heaters Part 7 Metering/Dosing pump
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- This is a video about metering or dosing pumps providing diesel feed to Chinese Diesel Air Heaters.
The metered dose of these pumps is .02 ml, and these pumps pulse or dose at a frequency from around 1.5 times a second to up to 6 times a second. The dose is provided by a small piston that is energized by an electromagnet. The dose or pulse rate is controlled manually or by the ECU and is measured in Hz, (pulses per second).
These metering or dosing pumps have a very small bore (3mm) and as such need a good filtering system so only clean diesel makes it to the pump. It only takes a very small piece of foreign matter to block up these pumps, and because they are a sealed pump they can't be disassembled for cleaning, so any dirt or grunge that gets into the pump is almost impossible to remove.
You should also use some form of "'off pump"' priming to initially prime your setup. These pumps use diesel for lubrication, and you do not need to be a rocket scientist to understand that damage would be caused to the pump if that little piston has to run up and down the cylinder for up to 10,000 times or more without any lubrication, just to prime the new instillation.
Because these pumps produce tiny air bubbles from induced low pressure and cavitation, they must be mounted in some form of upright position so as to allow the tiny air bubbles to escape from the pump.
These tiny air bubbles cause no issues in the heater, and actually help in atomization of the diesel fuel in the burner chamber. J - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I am stunned by your generosity, John. This is no small feat to make these fact-filled videos c/w sketches and cutaways. My wife and I have learned so much from your terrific tutorials. Many thanks! 👍 Cheers, Kevin & Gay, Canada
Wow Guys!
Thanks for the positive feedback. Pleased you found the videos helpful. JMcK
"If you don't like them, you'll have to suck it up" 🤣
Great explanation of the pumps and filter setup!
Finally someone with knowledge explains the operation of the dosing pump!!
Thanks for your feedback Robert.
@@johnmck1147 I know im a bit late to the party, but would it be possible for me to send you a video of the issue im having? I cant figure it out for the life of me.
Pump ran through prime cycle (as per these instructions) and was working fine, but then when i tried to start the heater, the pump would start "bouncing" the fluid back and forth, until eventually, only air/vapor was coming out of the pump.
Thought it was a pump issue, so i bought another, but im still having the same issue.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Alex Olson
Hi Alec, a video may help.
My email. johnmck47@outlook.com
I assume you have a fuel filter, and the pump is facing up the right way. (Plug is on the top)
Cheers. JMcK
Hi John, fantastic videos. You truly are an expert. You've helped me realize and correct quite a few mistakes I had in my install. I appreciate all the hard work you put into these, you're a great teacher.
Wow Gina, thanks for the lovely positive feedback. JMcK
Stellar teacher! Thank you John!
Thanks John for your very informative videos!
Thanks for the feedback Patrick. JMcK
Thanks for your videos! Very interesting and useful :)
Thanks John, really useful overview of the pump
👍
Thank you for the great info and time required to make these videos.
Your welcome Jorge. JMcK
Thanks John, brilliant video as always. I’m definitely a ‘country’ type who doesn’t see the need for priming pumps when I have one built-in 😂
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Thanks John, I learned a lot. You are a great teacher.
Wow! Wolfgang.
Thank you for the kind comments. JMcK
Sooo glad I found you! Wonderful job! Thank you!!!
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Still working through the series, but so far don't see that you do affiliate links. You seem extremely knowledgeable and unbiased and therefore I would feel comfortable buying products based on your recommendations. For example, say I wanted to add an air filter, upgrade the fuel filter and change my controller. If you linked to things you approved I wouldn't need to go through dozens of pages but would defer to your expertise. And you would get revenue which would thank you for all of your excellent work : )
What a fantastic video. Thank you for your amazing tuition. Very informative.
Thanks for the positive feedback Richard. JMcK
Helpfull great video. Thank You!
John, I owe you an apology, I thought "19 minutes to discuss a little pump"? But I have to admit, it was well worth my time, thank you. :)
Genius, Love this guy
same here
Love your work.
Thanks Tony
great vid mate this answers my question to you from before top job mate keep it up
This is such useful information. Thank you for providing this. From Henrico County Virginia
Hi Norm, pleased you found it useful. JMcK
This is an excellent series of videos John. Wish I could give you a thousand more likes.
Thanks for the positive feedback Emil. JMcK
To avoid all the issues because of biodiesel I mounted a extra tank on my semi and I filled it with kerosene and added a quart of two cycle oil for lubing. works perfect
Awesome overview of the pump! I assumed how they worked, but physically seeing it is perfect and really helps with understanding.
Thanks for the feedback volvo09. JMcK
Very intelligent way you explain this. Thank you very much for your explanation.
Your welcome jimthvac100
That`s great videos, Thank you John
Pleased you found them helpful Kenn. Happy New Year. JMcK
great video , very informal and plenty of info on the pump, thanks for putting in the time
Pleased you liked the video Eddie. JMcK
Thanks again great information.
You are welcome Ron. J
Dude iv been looking for a breakdown or a animation of these dang fuel pumps and you totally nailed it! Big thank you. 🙏🙏👏🏽👏🏽
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John, your videos have helped me immensely over the last three years. Please update your comment at time 9:58 to include after throwing the internal screen filter away, to install an appropriately sized (I think it's a #4) o-ring. I was troubleshooting a recent issue (heater would not go into the red bars on controller/ low heat output) for a long time before an aircraft mechanic showed me the issue. I even bought a new 2kW heater, but I realized that the 22ml pump that came w/ it might be the issue. I then thought that I could just use Teflon tape on the old Eberspacher pump that I was using, but discovered that it was in vain (leaky & still low heat), & that it could have caused shreds of PTFE tape to get caught in my plumbing. I was actually about to ask a mechanic for some PTFE paste when he made me realize that they're straight threads & this part required an o-ring. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge, it has benefited many.
Excellent piece on the pump I'm currently fitting a Chinese 2kw heater and yours are the best , many thanks.
Thanks Harry. JMcK
Great presentation. I'm fitting one of these in my man-shed.
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I grasp that compleately, thank you. And your designe is perfect for what it is used for. By the way: "suck it up" had a punchline in it...
Thanks John for all the effort you have put into these videos I am about to do an install of my supposed 8kw ebay heater but I'm guessing it's a 5kw (going of your review a few episodes ago) but that's still okay for $110 bucks. anyway a big thanks for all these helpful hints. Love your work 👍
Today, I literally received a new replacement pump. The old one just quit.
Thank you for the information.😉👍
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Thanks for an informative video learnt a lot....regards
Your most welcome Rocketrebel. JMcK
Love the channel & all the series of videos great work mate 👏🏼👏🏼🏴🏴🏴🏴
Pleased you found series helpful Ryan. JMcK
Excellent Presentation! Of course I've viewed a few of your by now as I am going to purchase one. And being a tech I need to know how to install properly and repair it. You did a outstanding job explaining this dose pump! Much appreciated and Respect!
Hi Michael, thanks for the positive feedback. Pleased you found the videos helpful. JMcK
I would love to see a peristaltic pump used to avoid the dry prime and pump noise. Thanks for another great video in a fantastic series!
Hi Sean, yes would be interesting if they could make a peristaltic pump work in this application.
Thanks for the positive feedback.
Thank u so much John for these videos. I was going to buy a European heater but will now install a Chinese … properly…. thanks to you. Much appreciated from another Aussie.
Glad to be of help. JMcK
Besides all great technical information, this video explains how important priming is for the fuel pump. Great work sir.
Thanks for the comments Ozan. JMcK
Thanks John, I was wondering how i could prime the lines to the pump before my fist start up, this video gives me all info I need.
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Thank you sir.
Great vid cheers
Hi John, Happy New Year ! My new pump and set up seem to be working fine, fingers crossed it keeps going. Many thanks for all your excellent videos and good advice 🙂
👍 ... Happy New Year to you too. JMcK
Great explanation, thank you to take the time to explain this to us.
Pleased you found video helpful. JMcK
I'm now sitting with my feet up in my warm toasty van minus 1c outside ❄️ thanks to your easy to understand instruction to set the magnetic pump upright and suck a bit of welsh diesel before i refixed the small bore volvo pipework i salvaged off my old truck back together, regards from Snowdonia north Wales,👍
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Great video John, you are obviously a skilled educator. Easily answers my question about where the bubbles are coming from and how to fix them (don't bother). Now I'm off to watch videos 1-6.
Glad to help David. JMcK
Useful and constructive videos. Although I have a good understanding on installation and operation I have learned a few useful points. Thanks John
Your welcome Mark. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Do you have any recommended suppliers John for the inner and outer gaskets on the 5Kw Chinese heaters. Thanks.
Mark Bradbury
Hi Mark, online suppliers come and go and I need to search each time I want something. First try searching for gaskets for Chinese diesel heaters, then search for gaskets for Eberspacher D4 gaskets. The most common Chinese heaters are a direct copy of this heater. However there are a few copies of a German Webasto heater. It is hard to find spare parts if you have one of these heaters. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Appreciate the reply John. I will have a search around ebay etc. I'm not in dire need yet but intend to strip down and clean at the end of winter. If I'm really struggling I do have a local gasket cutting Co. So I'm sure they could assist. Cheers again for the help.
Mark Bradbury
Hi Mark, the crowd where I bought my last set of gaskets no longer supply them, but here is one link below to get you started.
www.ebay.com.au/itm/1X-Parking-Heater-Exchanger-Burner-Gasket-Parts-For-EBERSPACHER-Airtronic-D4-D4S-/133264466249?hash=item1f072e6149
Cheers, JMcK
Thanks John excellent vid and info mate. Seeya Rob..........and thanks for the heads up on the msg i sent you on mounting the heater sideways on the shed wall too mate !!
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I like your video thanks
👍😉👍
Pleased you found it useful CG. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 thanks
Great 👍 information mate == thank you ☝️
Your welcome Siskiyou
Hi John, glad I discovered your video as it has helped me figure out a problem with a diesel heater which I installed for somebody a couple of days ago.
Everything was working fine when the vehicle left me but I had a message a couple of days later to say that the heater wouldn’t fire up and also error codes e07 and then e10 were showing on the display.
After watching your video I rang the man up and asked him to check if the dosing pump was still at the correct angle and guess what it was nearly horizontal , I got him to put it back to the correct angle and on the third attempt the heater fired up and is working perfectly without any error codes.
Not sure how the pump moved so I’ve asked the man to pop in when he’s back in town for me to check it over.
Thanks for the info, cheers, Chris.
beautiful drawings
John you are a legend. Just tell me which one is the best
puffteenth of an amount...what a fantastic term!
Glad you like the term, not mine though, an Aussie term for a very small amount.
not if you're a poof. Think about where it comes from. What's next? got some gollywog dolls to show off?
Hello John, as a German I got to say you are a specialist. I'm glad to find your videos, I have learned a lot. I never heard of this German company. Thanks for teaching us.
Pleased you found them helpful RnT. JMcK
I commented on the previous video asking about pumps. Having watched this the pump isn’t what I expected. I couldn’t see from the cut away how much rubber is involved in sealing the units. Also, on another issue of dirty fuel and my biodiesel production I tested putting an inline car filter inbetween fuel storage tanks and found the cheaper so called 5 micron to be useless. A chap on eBay makes 1 micron filter socks and other rated socks that make Pre filtering 20 lites in one go very easy. We use a 60 litre drum into which we fitted a tap about an inch above the base, and cut a hole in the lid to suspend the filter sock. Once filtered, the clean fuel flows out with an added bonus of any water being left below the tap line. Guess you already know all this but mentioned for any others fresh to playing with diesel etc.
Very informative and thanks for taking the time to make this. There is to much misinformation out there and people parroting information without explaining or understanding why something needs to be done a certain way.
Hi D, thanks for the positive feedback. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Any thoughts on how the type of fuel filter used in a heating system may effects the pump. e.g. The volume of fuel the filter holds or the type of filtration used within the fuel filter?
Hi D, I have used metal gauze fuel filters and paper fuel filters, both large and small and never noticed any negatives between them. JMcK
Thank you! INstructions are so gawd awful I had to watch your videos just to see which way fuel flows through pump and filter. You're doing Gods work. Thank you Sir!
Hi Brett, thanks for the positive feedback. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Just finished my install today. Couldn't have done it without your vids. Thanks!
Brett McNary
Thanks for the positive feedback Brett. JMcK
Great stuff John, thanks for all the hard work! I want to buy all the parts you've recommended. You could put links in the description for each item and maybe make a few dollars everytime someone uses the link to buy it.
Cents, not dollars.
_I also run the hard nylon through a run of latex tubing [ 1/2 OD x 1/4 ID ]. It does a great job of cutting back the noise about 2/3s' cause by the line itself. To run the nylon through, your best bet is to use oil into the latex and then push the nylon through it. I also started using a blue fuel line for the connection. The plus side is you can see when the ends touch. For longer runs, I use a hand-pump multi vacuum for all the fuel systems like my own. To ensure no air in the system._
Great Video mate! Going to try this method of keeping it vertical, mines so loud.
Thanks for the feedback Chris. JMcK
Love your videos. I just completed my own install in my garage and couldn't access the prime function on my controller. Instead, I used my hand held vacuum test pump to pull a vacuum on the hose that attached directly to the heater. In two clicks, the filter was full and fuel had exited the pump. Highly recommend doing this if you have access to one of these pumps like the mityvac
Thanks for the feedback and info Kevin. JMcK
i enjoyed that
Good man.
Good information, and a great video. I live in northern Canada and thought one of these diesel heaters will fit my needs, when in my trailer. Also will be running 50/50 diesel and kerosene, also I am a new subscriber.
Hi WRXS, pleased you liked the video. In a cold winter or at high altitude you can run up to 90/10 kerro/diesel, to help minimise carbon production. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thanks for the reply, and today picked up 4L kerosene@$3.99 and for 5L diesel the cost$10.00. Indeed the kerosene for some reason is half the cost.
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Greetings from the USA! I can't begin to thank you enough for your instructions on these heaters! I however, am in a very different situation from yourself and most others in that I "boondock" in the states in a tipi tent. My system is going into a toolbox and needs to be packable and transportable. Hence a need for good quality shutoff valves and quick disconnects. Would very much appreciate any suggestions on quality product! Thanks again for sharing your valuable knowledge in these videos! It is GREATLY appreciated!!!
Hi Richard, thanks for the feedback. To my knowledge there are no off the shelf quick disconnect products for these heaters. For the fuel line you can use a quick connect coupling for an outboard motor, but you will need to make your own for the exhaust pipe, or get a shop to make one for you out of some thin walled stainless tube.
Good luck with your bush camping. JMcK
You invested your time and energy to explain and show as CZcamsrs your knowledge and expertise about this Heathers.
Me personally I thank you for teaching me what to look or watch out for..
If possible please I would be curious about optimal settings on the display menu.
Just purchased the latest edition of this (.8Kw red remote and display) I know in real life is only 5kw.
Messaged seller got 20 pounds refund.
Great job great video very useful Thank you...
Hi Mngvmhgf Bgc!hgc ,
Thanks for the positive feedback.
The settings are really down to personal preference, size of area to be heated, and your comfort setting. I personally prefer to just use the manual setting of around 3 to 4 Hz to start, and then adjust from there. But that is just my preference other people have their own ideas.
Cheers, JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Hello.thanks for reply.. being honest after watching and reading so many vids and writings all over I become a bit paranoid with this Heathers ..I have installed the Heather in my boat trying to follow your advice. regards Max.
Thanks John it’s going on the front of a gooseneck horse float. If I make a bracket to hang it lower I can probably get the bottom of the tank level with the pump which means it will be a full tank length above. That will have to do. Cheers
Hi Clayton, you don't need a bracket, things will work ok with with the fuel tank up to 1 to 1.5 metrers higher than the pump, just install a simple in line fuel shut off valve in the fuel line before the pump. JMcK
Hi John I have the heater up and running and it works really well but the pump is quite loud. Even with the whole fuel system suspended and not touching any thing it’s still loud. I was wondering if it was because I have a really short line. It’s about 10cm to the filter, 10cm to the pump and about 25cm to the heater. Could the short line mean less air and more pressure also do you think it would matter if I enclose the pump in an insulated box?
Clayton Hughes
Hi Clayton
Yes, a big complaint about these heaters is the "ticking" noise from the dosing pump. You can lesson this noise by soft rubber mounting the pump. But the noise will be louder if there is air in the pump. Is your pump angled upwards more than 15 deg? I like at least a 45 deg angle.
The length of fuel line won't make much difference to the noise, but make sure you also rubber isolate the hard nylon fuel line from your trailer as it also transmits the pulse noise.
You can put a insulation box around the pump, but it must have an air gap as the pumps get hot, and you can't wrap the pump directly.
Hope this is of some help. JMcK
Hi John,
Just for your info and comment, had a failed fuel pump this winter due to sub zero temps. Pump checked out ok electrically. Diagnosed the fault as a gummed up solenoid piston, (non winter diesel) tried to un gum with kero but eventually heated pump to 65 deg C and pulsed with 12v and passed kero through it, after a bit of persuasion it loosened up and works normally. It seems gelled diesel can be shifted with heat. Great channel regards
Thanks for that info Richard. I really appreciate your feedback. JMcK
Apparently to small 90 degree bends in the fuel lines both right before and right after the pump helps quiet it as well.
"… they even copied the manual … "
So strange then they did not copy the filter.
Perhaps they found out when the heater did not work when they tried it with chinese diesel.
Thank you very much for informative and detailed videos.
Hour welcome Torstein
Wow!!!
Thank you. Pleased you liked the videos. JMcK
I just have one suggestion to this part of your amazing video series that I would love to see only if you have time. I want to know the science of how the electromagnetic current from a 12v battery current can turn to mechanical force to pull a piston up and down in a pump. I can understand that that is possible, but it is still like magic to me. I mean, there is a CZcams channel called Smartereveryday that went into something like this with a lawnmowers carburator that was amazing. Can you do that with a Chinese diesel fuel pump. That would be epic. But even if you don't, you did more than what anyone could have asked. Much appreciated.
Hi i am looking at these heaters. Thanks for your work on the videos. I am sitting at home in front of wood heater and i have a idea. 10ltr metal jerry can. More robust. Then fuel line. Mount fuel filter at end if tube and place it in the jerry below fuel and just off the bottom. And make a lid that the line goes through. Or you can get fuel cloth filter. The little bag in fuel tank. Fit it on the end. That the other idea. Both will help the pump. It takes out the tank tube that comes with heater and remove a few of them rubber joint connectors. Russell
They are pre-lubricated for priming which is why they have caps on, but if you have a long way to prime then you'll notice the valves are all one way and you can just suck through it. It helps if you momentarily place it all lower than the tank.
Your videos on these things are amazing.
This video has me wondering if these units could be further simplified, and reliability improved with a redesign of the pump piston using compliant mechanisms - no moving parts, just a single flexible membrane with an electromagnet attached.. Food for thought.
Hi John hope all’s well mate,, I installed a heater into a van a couple years ago and used you’re videos for reference. I am currently building a small camper van for myself and installed a heater with zero problems, it worked fine for an hour or so, then I stated getting ERROR 0- numbers on my display, I contacted the guy I got it from on ...3-Bay ! He basically palmed me off then as if HE was doing some work to help me advised YOUR CZcams pages & I thought the cheek of him selling heaters then using YOURE excellent work for HIS “problem”
Hi Ryan, suggest you have a look at your wire size, and fuel line.
Lately these heaters are being supplied with ridiculously thin power wire and installers use same size wire to connect to power board. I had an acquaintance around two days ago whose new install would not work, and when I put meter on power wires at heater the voltage dropped from 12.8V to 10.2V on start.
Also suggest you run heavy gauge heater wire straight to battery with 20 amp fuse/circuit breaker close to battery. Not through distribution board.
Another issue is the soft vinyl hose now being supplied by some suppliers. If the fuel delivery hose is more than about 300 mm, from pump to heater the hose absorbs the fuel pulse and after a few hours of operation there is not enough pressure in the soft fuel line to force the fuel through the atomisation screens in the burner. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 thanks for the reply John👍🏼, a diesel fitter friend also said _Get a new wiring loom their only a few ££s_
Great minds an all that eh 😂 putting the new 20amp Red positive on will I have to open up the ‘ECU’ to solder direct to the circuit board or can I attach it Without opening “that box” appreciate any reply if & when you’ve time🙌🏼🏁🏁🏴🏴
You don't need to touch the circuit board. Just solder new thick wire close to the wire coming out of circuit board. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 thanks for the reply mate really appreciated,
I’m not the best person with a soldering iron🤷🏻♂️😂 so I’ve already ran some thin wall 80 amp wire I already had sitting around, possibly a bit overkill lol BuT sides are behind the walls so don’t see them😇
Thanks again mate yer a diamond ✌🏼🏴🏴
Now what would be really interesting would be to hook the pump up to some power and see it in action. My thinking is you use a square wave with variable duty cycle and a variable voltage. That way you don't get that hard knock. Change the frequency of the square wave to make it pump more. Instead of a knock you get a humming or buzzing sound which should be quieter.
One of the best instructional video series I have seen any topic. I am curious of your opinion on protecting the pump. Mine will be mounted under my van close to the tank and subjected to salt spray. I was trying to figure out a good way to protect it.
Hi Mr P,
Thanks for the nice comments.
Have you seen the videos of the motorhome install? The pump is mounted under the van in a position away from any wheel spray.
We are not subject to salt road spray in Australia, so I have no experience in this regard.
Perhaps a viewer with experience may have comment.
As regular maintenance I would spray the electrical connection with WD40 or similar and fresh water hose the pump. You could perhaps spray paint the pump with an epoxy rust proof paint, if pump rusting is a problem.
You could provide the pump with some form of spray deflection, or perhaps put a plastic bag around it. You can't heavily wrap the pump because it gets hot with use and needs cooling air, but if it is used in conditions that are so cold as to require salt on the road, overheating may not be an issue.
Cheers. JMcK
It'd be neat if you'd ignite the pulses so we could see that.. you might have to affix an aerating nozzle..
Again, good work!
Thanks for the feedback.
Hi, great videos. I'm going through them all, thanks for your efforts.
I've done some work with motorbike petrol fuel systems, and on van diesel ones.
I would suggest that one keeps the existing (small) fuel filter as is, and then adds another of the type you are suggesting before it.
And rather don't discard it: it will then act as an extra, very fine filter.
You can inspect it in your regular R&M, after all.
In addition, you could avoid the cavitation issue by increasing the inlet pressure to the pump.
It's a positive displacemrnt pump after all, and within reason doesn't care what ABSOLUTE pressure it runs at.
The diesel cavitates when it gets to less than its vapour pressure, at the ambient operating temperature.
So if you boost that a bit, say by a 2nd feed pump, or else by a bit more head from your fuel supply, you should be able to avoid the cavitation.
A big problem with diesel is that it has a very low vapour pressure: ranging from 1 - 10 kPa at 38 C (0.2 to 2 PSI).
Compared to petrol, where it's a LOT higher, at 48 - 103 kPa (7 to 15 psi).
Because of petrol's use, its vapor pressure (Reid Vapour Pressure) is a controlled specification, and is adjusted to prevent air locks due to vapourisation.
But not only is diesel's inherent vapour pressure a lot lower, because of the high pressure in a diesel system, and it's fuel pump system, it's not controlled.
There's not even any spec for it, so it's hard to see what it actually is for a given diesel blend.
Ff you DO an get air in a diesel system, or a vapour lock, it's very hard to get rid of: regardless if it's from low fuel level in your tank, poor priming, a leak, or vapour lock/cavitation.
Which is why more demanding systems have a preliminary booster pump feeding the main pump so you aren't affected by this issue.
In our case, if you boost the pressure by a bigger fuel head, then you can have MORE than the vapour pressure at the inlet to the fuel pump.
And therefore it CANNOT cavitate.
Fuel Head (kPa) = Fuel Density (kg/m^3) x Gravity (m/sec^2) x Head (m)/1000
To get 10 kPa, you need >= 1.25m of head.
You'll need more if you are running hotter, or use diesel with more volatile component fractions.
Here's a summary of various vapour pressures (all same research paper):
Riazi, M. R., Albahri, T. A., & Alqattan, A. H. (2005). Prediction of Reid Vapor Pressure of Petroleum Fuels. Petroleum Science and Technology, 23(1), 75-86. doi:10.1081/lft-20009686225
sci-hub.se/10.1081/lft-20009686225
www.researchgate.net/publication/254352877_Prediction_of_Reid_Vapor_Pressure_of_Petroleum_Fuels
booksc.org/book/39540617/b2776f
He doesn't do diesel specifically (looked at gasoline and avaiation fuel), but you can see the values for various types of gasoline are quite high, and then look at kerosene, that are a LOT less (which is pretty close to diesel in this respect).
Hi Warthog,
Thanks for your detailed comments.
Yes, if you have a fine filter in the pump you could leave it in and have a separate primary filter. However all the Chinese heaters I have seen do not come with fuel pumps that have a filter.
Ref the cavitation bubbles. My research has shown that these little vapour bubbles actually help with the atomisation of the diesel when it is injected into the atomisation screens in the burner. In effect you have whole lot little diesel vapour bubbles already in the line.
Your post indicates a lot of technical knowledge. I would be interested in results if you actually do tests on this matter before I get an opportunity to do same. JMcK
In his kerosene video I think the pump failed from running dry from cavitation rather than lack of lubrication in the kero.
You seem to be a Gent who might be able to answer this query.
As I understand it, some diesel vaporises on the suction side due to low pressure induced by the rapid movement of the piston pulling on the inlet fuel line, What I can't see is why does it not condense back to liquid once it has passed the piston on the delivery stroke, but tends to remain in the pipe as bubbles. In normal cold climate operation. I would not think the pump runs very hot and after the short initial pressure burst needed to overcome inertia of fuel in the line, there would only be a very small, but positive, pressure [since the delivery side is basically an open tube,] and the bubbles must by then be well above the vapour pressure of the fuel. So why do they persist in the line all the way to the glow plug ?
Bearing in mind that these bubbles are always going to be present and cause no real difficulties, even in 'perfectly' installed systems, this might suggest that the pump is not delivering the full 0.022ml of fuel per stroke, but a very slightly lesser figure due to bubbles? But tests consistently show 22ml of liquid diesel after 1000strokes ... bang on the money!
I know it's of no practical importance whatsoever, but the conundrum is still bugging me.... and I need my sleep ;
An excellent run through of the fuel delivery system.... thank you John
Amazing what the mind turns to when you can't sleep at 3am .... As I understand it, some diesel vaporises on the suction side due to low pressure induced by the rapid movement of the piston pulling on the inlet fuel line, What I can't see is why does it not condense back to liquid after it has passed the piston on the delivery stroke, but tends to remain in the pipe as bubbles. Since the delivery side is an open tube there could only be a very small positive pressure which could aid condensation, but the bubbles must by then be well above the vapour pressure of the fuel by that point, so why do they persist rather than condense out?
Bearing in mind that these bubbles are always going to be present, even in 'perfectly' installed systems, would this mean that the pump is not delivering the full 0.022ml of fuel per stroke, but a lesser figure due to bubbles?
I know it's of no practical importance at all , but the question is still bugging me.... and I need my sleep ;
Oh dear OG, what a dilemma here.
The little cavitation bubbles march along the narrow bore fuel line and get forced through the atomisation screens in the burner chamber, and I believe they actually help the fuel atomisation.
I have done a number of tests measuring out pump delivery manually, and 100 pump pulses does give 22 ml of fuel the in lab measuring container.
I have also found that if you use 4 mm bore cheap rubbish vinyl fuel line as sometimes supplied nowadays, and you have a sharp bend in it the little bubbles can form a large bubble that further absorbs the fuel pulses and creates a bad fuel air mix leading to a poor burn and excessive carbon deposits in the burner, which soon won't start anymore. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thanks John. I agree in all respects that the solid narrow bore pipe works very well indeed and there are no problems with the delivery rate. I can see too that already vaporised fuel in the form of cavitation bubbles might well be the first thing to ignite on the plug since they don't have to be 'boiled out' of the liquid fuel first.
Still seems strange the bubbles don't condense back into the liquid fuel. It will kick around my brain's 'back burner' till one day I come cross an explanation. Thanks again for your reply ... Regards OG
I would be interested in what you find out. Sleep well 😁
Incredible teacher! I have marathon-ed all the previous in this series. Can't wait for the next. I will be more than ready when I purchase my Chinese diesel heater.
Questions:
Does gasoline have lubricant for the health of the pump?
Do these Chinese heaters also do well in high altitude as a certain Ebespacher heater does?
Hi Mike,
These Chinese copy heaters, to my knowledge, still do not have a successful gasoline (petrol) version. If you wish to go gasoline you will need to purchase a petrol version of the genuine German Eberspacher, or Webasto heaters.
Currently the Chinese copy heaters do not have altitude compensation in the supplied controllers, and the heaters run rich at altitude, causing quicker carbon buildup and require more maintenance. Running kerosene with 10% diesel for lubrication, means cleaner burning at altitude and less carbon deposits. JMcK
Hi I had a new pump installed and put it straight up like you said but on tick over it stop pumping the fuel but was ticking still so I turned it back to 30 degrees and it started pumping again but with some bubbles
great info, thanks so much. My pump however, doesn't really seem to have enough force to pump anything. Can I open it up somehow to check if there is a blockage?
Hi Jord,
Sorry, these pumps are sealed and can not be opened or serviced. This is why it is important to install a good filter before the pump.
If you hear a clicking sound the pump is working, but if no fluid comes out there could be a blocked valve.
If the pump is stuck, it can sometimes be freed by giving it a couple of taps with a small hammer.
If all this fails you are up for a new pump. Lots of on line sellers, but make sure you specify your voltage. Here is just one of many sellers
www.ebay.com.au/itm/Universal-Car-Parking-Air-Heater-Pump-Auto-Electric-Diesel-Oil-Fuel-2-5KW-12-24V/401764170235?hash=item5d8b02b9fb:g:rzQAAOSwphhc0~gN
I hope this helps. JMcK
Cavitation bubbles in a fluid pump is not always gases coming out of solution. It is often the fluid itself boiling because of the low pressure created by the suction. The boiling point of most fluids can be lowered by lowering the atmospheric pressure on said fluid (vacuum).
Hi SW, aren't we talking the same talk here?
Hi John, Have you measured the resistance of the coil on a good working pump to see what would be acceptable. Thanks
That 'bubbles caused by vacuum-pull' is called cavitation. It's an issue we get with model jet turbines, as you go for a hard spool-up - rapid suction of fuel can cause this cavitation, & that can cause flame-out (engine stops) - which can be pretty consequential when it's on a plane in flight!
Thanks so much for these videos! Excellent information and just what I needed to finish off this project! I got a Chinese knockoff and tried to remove the portion on the pump to take out the tiny filter but no go. Will not budge and didn't want to take it any further. Do they produce pumps without the internal filter? If I place a filter inline it probably is just a moot point. Just curious... Thanks again! Great work!
Hi Richard, the vast majority of Chinese diesel heater pumps DO NOT have an internal filter in them (very sensible in my opinion) and require an inline filter. If your fuel pump looks like the ones in the video, then it does not have an internal filter. The pumps that do have an internal filter have a prominent nut on the bottom part of the pump.
Thank you for your positive comments. Cheers. JMcK
David M
Are you able to provide info on where to purchase atomizer screens? Love your videos. Excellent work!!
Thanks for the positive feedback David,
There are many eBay suppliers selling the atomiser screens. Remember the 5 kw Chinese heater is a copy of the Eberspacher D4. Try this one for starters.
www.ebay.com.au/itm/5xGlow-Plug-Burner-Strainer-Screen-252069100102-For-Eberspacher-Airtronic-Heater-/153319973411?hash=item23b2952223
Hello John. Hoping you may have encountered this scenario. From day 1 heater it would start and run OK but would show an E-04 code during the shutdown sequence and turn off. Once reset (powered off / on at fuse) it would restart and run fault free until next shut down sequence. Hasn't been used for several months (summer NSW) however when I attempted to test a day ago it goes straight to E-04 a second or two after power button is pressed on controller. Heater does not exhibit any start sequence (fan running etc.) before E-04 code activation. I can read approx. 4.5 ohms resistance at the heater side of loom plug of the pump wiring, which seems correct assuming pump current of 2.5 amps. What seems strange though is that voltage reads only 10.4 volts when measured at the same point in the loom with a second meter displaying 13 volts at the positive/negative mains connection at the loom plug. Any thoughts on my next step appreciated.
Hi Charles, I suspect a low voltage issue.
Suggest you run thick cables direct from your battery, or spare battery direct to the heater.
These days these heaters are supplied with absolute minimum power wire, and with connectors, fuse, distribution etc the voltage is too low to heat the glow plug.
These heaters suck 8 to 10 amps to start and shut down for a few minutes. They need better wire than that supplied.
Suggest in install you connect heater direct to battery, with good wire, through 15 to 20 amp fuse. JMcK
I recently became aware of these heaters and have watched a lot of CZcams videos. Your in-depth coverage is the absolute master class.
2kw vs 5kw - if both use the same pump, would the 2kw running full speed be pumping about the same rate as the 5kw running at its lowest setting? So, would the heat output of a 2kw at full speed = the 5kw running near its lowest speed. Same for the db level. I realize there is also a combination chamber size difference to be factored in.
If you address this in later videos sorry I jumped the gun.
Yuo got it Jer.
In my opinion it is better to have the 5kw running slow, with less noise, rather than a smaller heater running flat out. JMcK
Hello John, we missed talking about the mark on the pump body. In your case it is written 18-22-12 which probably means that this pump is 12v with a diesel flow of 18-22 (probably for a 5Kw heater). In the case of the 2Kw heater, it will be written on the pump 16-18-12 that it would have a smaller flow. Am I right???
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great video! what i cant quite make out though is if the length of the fuel line affects the dosage. would the pump need to be calibrated to make up for the extra distance in order to maintain the same dosage?
Hi there, the pump should be as close to fuel tank as possible.
See video on fuel lines. The pump pulses or dosses .02 ml of fuel per pulse and is not re- calibrated. The delivery hose must be thin, hard wall nylon fuel line or thin bore metal fuel line so as not to absorb the fuel pulse from the pump. JMcK
Great videos John thanks, have you ever experienced the fuel pump not working. I purchased a new pump and controller as mine stopped working, fitted it and it worked for two nights then stopped. The relay activates h by us the pump has no power.
Hi Ian, it is very rare for a fuel pump not to work. Without knowing more, or actually seeing your set up it is hard to give advice but here are some points.
1. Voltage to the pump too low. Caused by running the heater with flat battery, pump wiring extended and not going up in wire thickness, or wire from battery to heater extended and not using thicker wire so voltage at the heater is below 12V.
2. Pump overheating caused by wrapping the pump in insulation to try and reduce the ticking noise.
3. Bad fuel blockage in the pump itself by not having a good fuel filter in the fuel line.
4. Fuel not getting to the pump because of blocked fuel filter.
5. Serious wear in the pump caused by running it dry for a long period while using the pump itself to initially prime the heater fuel system.
6. Mounting the pump too high above the fuel tank requiring the pump to work hard to suck up the fuel (pumps are much better at pushing rather than sucking) The pump will initially work but with a bit of wear, particularly in regard to no 5, they lose the ability to suck the diesel up high.
I hope that is of some help. JMcK
Thanks, this video answered the question I had about "which way do I install the damn pump" be nice if there were some arrows or something on the pump body...
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how to prime, I thought of a syringe, a large one and draw the fuel up through the pump with that. I am learning a lot with your vids. I am thinking of replacing the propane heater in my 19 foot camper with one of these style heaters. it draws way less amps,,,,and it allows for my fridge to run longer on the propane.
,,,thanks
glenn in mississippi
Thanks for the feedback Glenn. Yes, a syringe would be good. Also with these heaters you get dry heat. Propane heaters put out large volumes of water vapour. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 hey john, that's true about the propane and the moisture. but ill be replacing the original heating system which uses a heat exchanger also, so it is dry heat. what I want to do is replace it because the factory heater sucks the propane like crazy and drains the battery's quickly because the fan runs on high speed no matter what you have the temp on. so a lot of the heat goes straight out the exhaust pipe. I don't think it is near efficient has this heater. and it should fit right in the space the now heater is in.
take care down under
Subbed 🙂👍
Thank you. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 You're welcome! It was a great explanatory video 🙂👍
Have been trying to find a thread on this but I find it interesting between the pulse rate settings of the Chinese diesel heaters and the euro ones, even though as we have established they are more or less identical at least with the eberspacher.
So our autoterm 2d on minimum power is 0.8hz and only 1.5hz on full power.
Where as the Chinese ones are 1.4hz on minimum unless you can login to the advanced settings on the controller and then you get em down to 0.8hz. I’m not sure what the pulse rate is on high power but somewhere closer to 5hz which seems like a crazy difference in settings