My Rebuilt Engine Is Making Strange Noises || Send It Or Mend It ?
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- čas přidán 28. 02. 2023
- So the newly built B230fk engine in my volvo 945 (the 300hp project) is making either rod knock or piston slap sounds... Along with this its running rough with hesitation under throttle, has poor inconsistent idle and in general feels inconsistent and wierd.
Time to deal with this elephant in the room and i thought i would post this video so that you all can se and listen to it as well. I havent put a lot of time into fault tracing but this is a start, and I do it by getting the physical engine as close to stock as possible and taking it from there.
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If you're running the original M90 dual-mass flywheel it could be the source of your knocking at idle. I had a similar sound at idle on my 945 Classic and it turned out to be the flywheel starting to come apart internally resulting in rattling very similar to rod knock.
Could also be worth trying a mechanics stethoscope (specifically with the rod attachment to make direct contact with engine components) on different parts of the engine to identify the source of the noise. It has helped me a great deal in the past.
Thanks!
Great input, but the cluch is a massive single unit of of a early b230f, the pot flywheel. And some random sachs pressure plate, it does make a lot of noise as well tho 😄
I have one of those, and my neighbor caught me with them in my ears going on and off throttle in the driveway 😆 Sad to say I did not locate the knocking sounds.
Bit late to the party here but my money is on the M90 box. The problem is worsened with your performance cam because the idle isn't as smooth and high. These boxes (especially with a single mass flywheel) often make a terrible knocking noise. Try turning the throttle wheel to close the throttle (opposite to how it usually goes) and see if you can make the knocking worse with very low revs/nearly stalling. Two solutions are to raise the idle speed or turn the radio up.
Can very well be that simple. Either way it doesn't seem to get better or worse ad time goes on so im just going to order a louder exhaust 😄
Sound sounds like typical pistonslap to me. The redblock is known for that. And they can achieve very high mileages with it.
I had a B230FK that i put a cosworth T3 on it and full 3" exhaust, some tuning chips for fuel and ignition.
I ripped that car for lots of miles. The block always had piston slap but it performed well. Not even a lot of oil use either.
Other possible sources of ticking sound: blown exh manifold gasket on 1 cilinder or a crack on the exh manifold. They suffer from this as well. The escaping exhaust gasses can sound like a ticking sound.
Experincing the same, ive been going at it this winter pretty hard but doesn't seem to be getting worse, or better :D
I would like to see a complete video of the valve adjustment procedure. I hope you resolve these issues!
Will se what I can do, I would like to do it without removing the cam. Need to fins a supplier of the special tool required tho.
IPD - 114934 I have this and it works great! I'm sure they will ship world-wide. I hope you get her fixed!
Sounds like a fueling issue. FPR(common cheap first step) or AMM/MAF sensor. Kinda looks like you're running a bit lean. You might be able to turn the adjustment screw on your Air mass meter to adjust. Clockwise if memory serves me correctly. This could also be related to a temp sensor tricking the car into warmup mode. Good luck!
FPR is checked and working good. Pump is not pysically checked but flowrate and current draw on pump is ok. AFR readings are high 11 on WOT. Funny thing is that the temp sensor was really bad at first, but that problem is addressed now.
I do have an eco tune chip on the fuel and ign but it has run fine on it before and I have also tried a stock map without any improvements.
Thanks 👍
I`m pretty sure that the noise coming from the head, like valves/lash caps, had the same issue, I had fixed the head and after a couple of months, this noise appeared.
Dang that sucks, hope ya figure it out. Maybe that crank is too warn? Did you triple check main and rod journal clearances? Crank had almost half a million km's on it if i remember from part 1. Cheers
One of my worries. The crank was a little too worn accordong to volvo specs and I did not check the crank with a micrometer. Mains were ok tho.
Thanks
I would do a maf burn off test. It can cause some idle/ drivability issues along with bad mpg. It might not throw a code for the burn off function.
Also it sounds like the usual piston slap
Measured the MAF and did the visible thread burnoff test and measured current draw and all is Ok.
Thanks.
Did you have it tuned after the rebuild with a new cam you may need to do a relearn of crank cam sensor ls and air fuel ratios
Id be looking at trying another MAF. Ive got an issue where it comes into boost around 3k revs then acts like the spark is blowing out. Swapped MAFs and issue is completely gone. These cars are an absolute nightmare haha
I have been blaming something electrical for some time, so i have tried the swap with a known good one, unfortunately, without success.
Agree with the nightmare, I have never been a friend of jetronic 😄
A yes on the valve adjustment, B I have the exact same problem in my 96 2.3L turbo. I have not yet fixed it but I'm thinking there is something to do with a vacuum leak, and if you checked that and no result you should check the blow off valve on the turbo, Hope you can fix it, and if you do please Update. Thanks for the content!!
Thanks!
Yes I have done the vaccum leak check several times now. With cold and hot engine and under constant 0.2 bar of pressure with smoke machine. Found a few leaks that got sorted but nothing that fixed my problem.
Thanks, will make a new video on this when I find it 👍
Har du kikat på stiften? Kolla kompression och leakdown både varm och kall. Sen om du har möjlighet så kör ner en inspektionskamera och kika ner i cylindrarna. Har du bytt/kollat oljan ? Ljudet är ju onekligen likt "kolvbult" tycker jag. hoppas du hittar felet. Om inte annat så kan man alltid höja volymen på stereon 😆
Stift bra, provat 3 olika märken och olika gap. Komp ca 9 på alla. Leakdown ok dock bara provat ljummen motor. Har inte kollat i loppen förutom med en riktig skit kamera jag köpte ifrån wish. Ska se om jag kan kolla på jobbet med riktig optik. Jag vill också säga kolvbult kan vara en källa till detta, hur vet jag inte för alla kändes bra men vi får se när jag kikar ner. Sterion har behövt en uppgradering sen dag 1 då jag fortfarande kör med original pappwoffers 😄👍
Hello sir i have a tip take out the spark plugs, check them, replace those spark plug wires. On these type of car you have a ignition unit place on the right or left side on the engine bay. Try replace that part. Also check youre coil. Since you Know you got no fuel problems and sound got reduce i believe you have a spark problem. I had same car same engine same problems i changed plugs wire but found out it was the ignition module
I think the knocking sound is when youre engine gets hot. The car struggle to ignite the mix in the combustion Chamber. Because if you have been driving the car i would be worse right
There is difference on the square tooth gears too.
Good to know. I have very limited experience with the square tooth style.
No LH2.4 OBD1 fault indicator on the Swedish models? It was standard on Canadian models after 1990?
Lh2.2 also had it but you needed a separate
LED indicator lead for the test port on the wing harness.
It does but it moved into the car in 1996 i believe. No fault codes were stored in it tho.
Dang. I'm pretty sure that leak is your heater core that's corroded and leaking. One of the worst jobs to do on these cars 🫤
That was my first thought as well but foutunantly the taste was fresh Swedish rainwater 😀 probably caused by 4 holes that i drilled in the roof during Baltic Sea Circle rally back in 2018 whan I had a Volvo PV roof Rack on the car.
Just an extra, try high octane fuel and see if the noise goes otherwise it's not sounding to bad good job.
That! might just be something to try 👍
Yes, very weird!
Press on the brake at idle,if the noise is gone ---->spring of the brake booster
Might give the entire brake booster a check. Maybe take a drive with it closed off from vaccum and se what happens under load ?
I think the rough running and hesitation might be caused by wrong ignition timing, which could also lead to souding like piston slap.
How is the damper on the crankshaft, could it have spun on the hub? That would cause your timing setting to be completely wrong.
The damper is brand new, so is the bottom timing gear. Had everything off in the video and doubble checked everything. The timing right now is not measured but set to stock volvo settings since i removed the adjustable timing gear.
Noting that I don't know much about these engines, does this version have oil squirters for the pistons? If so, could that not be working?
It does, but they got tested during assembly of the engine and seemed to work fine.
do you have play on the crackshaft if you try to move it back to front it sound like a bodem end ticking
Thanks for the awsome vidoes love them a lot learn a lot new stuff on volvo engines still in progrosse to swap a t5 engine in a opel omega b2. And i recently bought volvo v70 2.4 d5 out of 2003 Do you have any tip on those engines where to look out for or commen problemes with the car and engine greets fron holland
No noticeable play on the axial on the crank, the cluch makes alot of noise but apparantly not the same as Iam worried about.
Nice! The 2.4D is a good engine, doesn't have alot of issues apart from (to my knowledge) issues with shafing on the wiring loom, leakage issues around the hi pressure pump area and crank ventilation pipes. Worn linkage to the swirlflaps. There is probably some more issues, but that's what I have had personal issues with 😄
@@BackmansGarage than like you said in the vidoe probaly piston or rods making noise its weird thats only making noise when on temprature like somting is not good with the piston seal
And thank you wil keep eye out on those parts much appreciate and good luck finding the problem hope you find the problem before things go south
10:31 I have a very similar sound on my 4A-GE when it's cold around the 2,5k rmp idle range wich gets better when it's warm since the idle drops to 1k and when it reached warmth to idle on 1k the sound is gone even in the 2,5k range
We sadly cannot open the engine up at this time since we don't have time but maybe it goes away when we drive around for a bit (which also is a problem since our 1987 MR2 doesn't have TÜV yet :P)
I diddent know that toyotas could have rod knock 😄👍 Make really good engines, maybe its oil quality/type related?
Gillar det du säger att du vill ha Det perfekt. 😊 Min tomgång vandrar ngt, mest varm o man känner till o med i bilen att motorn hostar till lite ibland. Men vad det kan vara, har jag ingen aning om längre. Har bytt en del o bytt alla vacuum slangar.
Det är hopplöst 😪 Och om jag ska vara helt ärlig så vettifan om den kan gå perfekt. Det hade vart väldigt kul att köra fullt sekventiellt på en B230 och nörda ned sig så in i helvete i mappningen, låna en bromsbänk och gå loss. För jag tror att jetronic systemet ifrån -80 talet är en stor bov i dramat.
@@BackmansGarage Har sett flera videos på just B230 där motorn ändå går fint o håller en stadig tomgång. Jag har en 945 med FD motor 31 k mil, den har stått ute i skogen i 8 år, den går bättre på tomgång än min 940 FK med 22 k mil på mätaren där jag bytt massor. Så jag blir inte klok på det.
Doesn't piston slap come as standard with the red block engines however it's usually worse when cold
True! :)
Did you manage to fix it any if so what was causing the problem?
Our 945 2.3ti polar has served us very well since 1996. it was our only car for the family of 5 until 2018. it will be replaced this month as it became expensive with the repairs and parts become invcreasingly difficult to source. Also the seats falling apart and the steering wheel is crumbling. Was a very reliable and practical car (all stock) and it hurts a bit to let him go. Cars these days don’t last as long anymore as the 945 did. They aren’t built the same anymore.
This Volvo 945 polar was our daily driver and drove every year from Switzerland to Finnland and back.
No, I have not taken the engine apart yet. I will do so in the fall if I have a replacement vehicle for the time it will take. I suspect that there is a problem with either piston-to-wall clearance or a piston pin issue. But it still runs and sounds the same as when I first put it together and doesn't seem to get any worse. No metal in the oil or filter yet, but it sounds terrible.
I've had thoughts of swapping out the 945 for a newer car, but every time I use one for an extended period I always feel at home when I get back in the old shitbox 😄
@@BackmansGarage another big plus for the 945 is the good turning circle. Even smaller cars of modern build don’t get such good turning circles. Also the view from it is better than most new cars. Especially the thick a pillars in modern cars are obstructing the drivers overview. Yes i understand thats necessary for all the new additional airbags that increase passager safety but still the driver of a 945 can get a better view of its surroundings.
For the rough idle problem i would first try unplugging the idlevalve i had a faulty one in my volvo and unplugging the idlevalve fixed the idle problems
Tried that one, made a tik tok on it a while ago. But it moves nice and smooth. I can try to disconnect it while running but i dont think thats the issue. Its more like random miss firings but smooth? 😄 Hard to explan. Like it's combusting but too weak to keep a good idle.
How many miles are on the fuel injectors? Did you have them flow tested before re-installation?
Have you pulled all 4 spark plugs and checked them for correct / even burning inside the combustion chamber? In other words, is one or more spark plugs showing a rich or lean condition?
Fuel injectors probably have 400000+km on them same as the car, have ot been flow tested but pattern checked and cleaned / pressure tested, i have also tried with known good ones. Sparkplugs I have been going throu 3 diffrent brands and a couple of different gap settings. No noticable difference on color. Maybe a EGT reading after a run would show something.
@@BackmansGarage I run NGK BPR6ES on my 940 Turbo and I gap them to 0.030" (0.762 mm). I find that the Bosch injectors are pretty much done after 250,000 miles (or 400,000 km) of use.
To me it sounded like valve train. But it is hard to hear.
Edit: didn't watch the whole video when i first commented, the noise i heard seems like it was the valves. Now after you swapped the cam i hear mostly the batch fire injectors and the turbo. There is some very strange sound when you rev it 10:20 Sounds like a loose ball bearing. I know there is none but it might be the turbo chattering. Worn alternators also got that sound but i don't think it comes from there.
A mechanics stethoscope would be great to locate specific sounds. Biltema: 20-338
Also worth noting that performance cams tend to make a lot more noise with the stem spacers and no hushes.
And cold start piston slap is somewhat normal, the expansion ratio between cast aluminum and cast iron is different so when it reaches operating tempatures it should quiet down. And Forged pistons got the same just way worse as they need more room for thermal expansion than cast.
I hope you find the source of the noise without to much more headache. Thanks for the video :D
Its so hard to tell! 😀 Everything in this is ticking and ratteling, wish it was a straigt six or something more sophisticated sometimes. I will take a look inte the cylinders with a scope and then make a decition if I should open it up and have a look. Turbo is completely just junk and may very well be a source of my issues. Looking for maybe a rebuild or replacement on that.
Thank you
@@BackmansGarage I love the inline 6's as well, It is a shame that Volvo never made a B300 version of the B30 inline 6.
Is there any change in the noise when the clutch pedal is held down?
No, but I have that noise as well 😀
gärna en video på kamm inställning så man vet vad man behöver göra på en slipad kamm :D kanon videor annars väldigt pedagigiska (Y)
Ska se om det kan bli en sån o framtiden 👍
Clutch springs can make knock sound
They do slightly but it differs from the engine sound, but i do have an excessively loud pressureplate, with a "sinter" its almost unbearable to listen too :D
you say that the short block have been rebuilt, have you measured the clearances between the pistons and the cylinder, the clearances at the rod bearings and clearances at the wrist pins, today, most engine rebuilding shops are very sloppy and it happens thet the final result is just junk.
All i measured was crank with flexigauge. If I take the engine apart I will measure all of those things you mention. I have even found a bore-gauge that i can use for the cylinder clearances.
Mine 940 with an original B230FT (all stock with LH2.4, M47 gearbox) has the same exact ticking noise issue. Even a bit worse than yours. I did a "low-budget refresh" on the engine a bit more than a year ago. The main goal was to change all the seals and gaskets. I didn't take off the head because there was no indications that I need to. So I'm not sure about the condition of the cylinders, piston or rings.
Ended up changing rod bearings too. After the change I measured the clearances with plastigauge and it was spot on according to manual. Main bearings where OK. So I cancel out rod knock. Some hear already mentioned that piston slap is "almost normal". I also suspect that. After that engine "refresh" I've been driving for a year now. That ticking is not getting worse. Cylinder compressing remains the same in all cylinders. The difference is that your engine was fully rebuilt but mine has done 400k km+ and was converted to run on LPG for a while which would only increases the wear. So in my case I'm not surprised about the piston slap and some engine oil loss.
Before you where putting the engine together where the cylinders measured at multiple levels after honing? Also where the new each pistons measured? I remember you did measure the rings.
Another thing is that at the time I didn't know about the valve hushers and I didn't change them when adjusting the valve clearances even though I had them on a shelf. That is another area which I suspect that could be causing excess noise.
I'm really interested to see how you will proceed with this issue. I like your videos about these RWD Volvos. Great to hear detailed specific tips and tricks on how to resolve or the best way how to tackle different issues. The best info must be in Sweden except that language barrier thing 😄Thanks for making these videos in English!
Thanks for sharing that story 👍 To be honest I should have checked more. I was relying too much on trust on this one, and now I feel uncertain about most things about the engine because I didn't double check everything like I should have 😄 I basically only measured the main and connecting bearing play, and it was pretty off spec so who knows. Im very intrested in knowing the measurements of the cylinders now, looks like I might take the engine apart again.
Thanks for watching 👍
my 1990 740 has the same noise :c
Min b230 har låtit så länge jag haft den, ca 7 år, går dock bra.
Många som delar detta fenomen. Känns jättekonstigt att det skulle vara normalt men tydligen är det i alla fall vanligt.
Throwout bearing perhaps..
Är det bara för mig som ljudet i filmen inte synkar riktigt? Rätt i början men sen blir det nåt tok..
Den är redigerad i efterhand i yt appen så det kanske blev lite knas där, får kika på det senare 👍 Aldrig använt den funktionen innan.
Mechanic fuel pump gone bad??
Is that a V70R you got outside?
No its a 2005 V70 2.5T Summum. Getting it ready for sale on my other channel.
Ett stetoskop kanske kan underlätta att hitta fel.
Japp, ska försöka med den igen :)
Hej. Det låter som kolvbult knack. Hade lika dant på min tic.
Inte helt omöjligt, tror också lite på detta spåret.
@@BackmansGarage För det hördes när du startade upp bilen, och du kan märkar det om du varvar upp lite och släpper gasen. kompis till han revnoverade sin motor och bytte lager i stakarna lilla änden.
Did you make sure it was timed correctly??
With the reground cam yes, it deviated quite a lot from the timing marks on the cover and the correct timing so I thought i had fixed it, but it only got slightly better.
small ends, little end,
Kolvbult 😬
Kan va, kan va. Troligtvis faktiskt och skulle passa in på allt som har hänt.
Did you ever figure out the problem?
No, and now iam only more comfuzed because it runs alot better now.
I don't believe that LH2.4 with it's poor injection timing can ever be working perfectly smooth. Not with lambda=1. If you want perfection, standalone is the answer.
I wish I had the budget for that in this build, been thinking about a maxxecu mini.
@@BackmansGarage There are some other costs apart from the ecu alone. Things like IAT sensor, TPS with the adapter, some other coil maybe, wires, connectors etc. You have the wideband controller already, so that's nice. Wiring itself is not that much work if you want to base it on the wiring loom that's already on the car. I did that for few cars, so if you have any questions feel free to ask.
Don’t you have a stethoscope to identify the knocking?
Yes, did not identify the knocking tho. Its hard to tell since its under on/off throttle.
Jag gillar dina videos, det är svårt för mig att helt följa med då jag är dålig på engelska. Förstår inte allt du säger, kan du inte lägga till en text remsa på svenska. Tack! 🔧🩺👍
Delvis därför jag gör en till kanal på Svenska. Kommer kanske inte bli riktigt samma samma som här men på svenska i alla fall men med mer blandat inehåll. Ska se vad man kan lösa vad det gäller undertexter men så länge man måste manuellt skriva in dom så har jag tyvärr inte tid. Tack 😀
Did you find a solution?
No, not really. But it is running alot better now. Im very confused to be honest... The noise is most likely piston slap that apparently can happen sometimes and isent very rare.
Byt olja så försvinner det
Provat några olika utan större framgång. Just nu är det 15W-50 olja i. Men har haft 10W-40 också.
I'm going with vacuum leak and TPS adjustment.
And...?
LS Swap Time 😅
I wish! 😄
S70, s80 engines are not reliable. Having many issues with my S70 T5 98